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USAGentleman
08-06-2012, 02:06 PM
Ubisoft, I hope you realize that several leading figures of the American revolution, including George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and many more, were Masons. For those of you who do not know. The Masons are an international secret organization who exist to this day. The reason I bring this up is due to the fact that the Masons are a successor organization to...you guessed it, the Knights Templar. Now, it would make very little sense if Connor somehow did not realize that these men leading the Revolution were in an organization related to the Knights Templar. If he did, wouldn't this mean he'd have to kill them as well? Is this going to be planned for, or will it simply be passed over as though it doesn't matter?




USA Gentleman

Kit572
08-06-2012, 02:17 PM
oh.

(Too tired to think on what else I could possibly say)

MasterSimaYi
08-06-2012, 02:24 PM
Thank you, this has never been brought up or discussed before.

RatonhnhakeFan
08-06-2012, 02:27 PM
Ubisoft, I hope you realize that several leading figures of the American revolution, including George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and many more, were Masons. For those of you who do not know. The Masons are an international secret organization who exist to this day. The reason I bring this up is due to the fact that the Masons are a successor organization to...you guessed it, the Knights Templar. Now, it would make very little sense if Connor somehow did not realize that these men leading the Revolution were in an organization related to the Knights Templar. If he did, wouldn't this mean he'd have to kill them as well? Is this going to be planned for, or will it simply be passed over as though it doesn't matter?
I haven't read much about masonery, but is it absolutely a fact that they're successors/connected to the Templars? I'm just having a hard time believing that Washington, Franklin, Lafayette could all be essentially 'the villains' in the game.


Thank you, this has never been brought up or discussed before.
Ain't just so nice all the time to new members?

MT4K
08-06-2012, 02:38 PM
The masons will feature in the game and Hutchinson has said they will be portrayed properly (Whatever that means ;)).

MasterSimaYi
08-06-2012, 02:38 PM
Ain't just so nice all the time to new members?

It's not because he's a new member; it's because he didn't bother to see if there were any other threads about this - as is fairly obvious - and comment on one of them, rather than start yet another one.

rileypoole1234
08-06-2012, 03:41 PM
They'll be in the game, but it's not really known if they truly have ties to the Templars.

raytrek79
08-06-2012, 04:28 PM
The Masons were a secret organization at the time, if they are linked to Templars in the AC sense of the word, it wouldn't be common knowledge. But yeah, the idea of such historical heroes being bad guys, and casting dispersions on those so venerated wouldn't be a wise thing to do. Maybe they are more a seperatist movement than successors to the Templars.

RatonhnhakeFan
08-06-2012, 04:31 PM
The Masons were a secret organization at the time, if they are linked to Templars in the AC sense of the word, it wouldn't be common knowledge. But yeah, the idea of such historical heroes being bad guys, and casting dispersions on those so venerated wouldn't be a wise thing to do. Maybe they are more a seperatist movement than successors to the Templars.
It ain't even about whether it's wise or not. It's just that the game would be then literally filled with Templars. Washington, Franklin, Lafayette were all freemasons.

raytrek79
08-06-2012, 04:42 PM
It ain't even about whether it's wise or not. It's just that the game would be then literally filled with Templars. Washington, Franklin, Lafayette were all freemasons.

I'm not talking about the game, I'm talking about Ubisoft, they'd be risking a PR nightmare, but then again they did claim Henry Ford, Roosevelt, Churchhill and Edison were all Templars and they were in league with Hitler to start ww2, although Hitler betrayed them, you can't get much worse than that.

medcsu
08-06-2012, 04:44 PM
It's not because he's a new member; it's because he didn't bother to see if there were any other threads about this - as is fairly obvious - and comment on one of them, rather than start yet another one.

Honestly...who cares? Does it hurt you? No. Does it ruin your day? No. The guy was just making a thread about his opinion and did nothing in a rude manner while totally following board protocal. There is no reason, what so ever, to act in such a manner due to it. Are you a board mod? No. Is there an option to report spam? Yes. So why not try not to act like you matter and just let the guy post his opinion in peace without fear of some random directing him to scour the board for similar posts when something pops into his head he wishes to discuss (which is what this forum is for, is it not?). Of course, this has nothing to do with you bringing this subject up a few weeks back and not wanting your amazing insight overlooked I'm sure.

It's just a forum and he didn't do anything wrong, get over it, or become a mod and then you can act like this forum is yours to dictate.

RatonhnhakeFan
08-06-2012, 05:11 PM
I'm not talking about the game, I'm talking about Ubisoft, they'd be risking a PR nightmare, but then again they did claim Henry Ford, Roosevelt, Churchhill and Edison were all Templars and they were in league with Hitler to start ww2, although Hitler betrayed them, you can't get much worse than that.
Yes, I know you were talking about PR and possible complaints "why is the holy Washington portrayed as evil raaaaage!" complaints. But my point was that this wouldn't be the only problem IMO. Purely from the storyline perspective it could be weird because then, most of the key figures we would meet would be Templars.

raytrek79
08-06-2012, 05:28 PM
Yes, I know you were talking about PR and possible complaints "why is the holy Washington portrayed as evil raaaaage!" complaints. But my point was that this wouldn't be the only problem IMO. Purely from the storyline perspective it could be weird because then, most of the key figures we would meet would be Templars.
I personally wouldn't have a problem with him being a bad guy, I'm Australian, Washington is just an old dead dude to me. True, pretty much everyone worth a mension would be Templar, I agree that would be weird. But really, it is fiction, AC can completely ignore the link of Freemasons and Templars if they want, or make the Freemasons a faction that had a falling out with the Templars and the way they want to do things.

SteelCity999
08-06-2012, 05:28 PM
I don't think there has been this direct connection made yet in AC. The Masons could very well have been disgruntled Templars that broke off from the main organization. They may resemble the Templars and share some of the original values but differ in a few major ones which keeps Connor from axing them. Technically, the Templars branched off into mutliple organizations after their demise so to identify one successor as the only one may not be fair.

thekarlone
08-06-2012, 05:45 PM
I haven't read much about masonery, but is it absolutely a fact that they're successors/connected to the Templars? I'm just having a hard time believing that Washington, Franklin, Lafayette could all be essentially 'the villains' in the game.


Ain't just so nice all the time to new members?

Yes, Templars and Masonery are strongly connected. In fact, I'll be very disappointed with the ACIII story if Washington and other important men of the revolution don't end in the templar side, since United States is the nation born from secrets and lies par excellence.

nightcobra
08-06-2012, 09:57 PM
It ain't even about whether it's wise or not. It's just that the game would be then literally filled with Templars. Washington, Franklin, Lafayette were all freemasons.

i'd like to see that actually, not really as "villains" but more as antagonists that you actually can see, understand and kinda agree with them. that's the best kind of opponent to me, one who connor would actually be a friend with if not for the divergence in their beliefs. not good vs evil but men on opposite sides fighting for what they believe is right.

for someone as connor, one who has been described as a good person and with a fervorous sense of justice, but also not one for pleasantries, a person that always has his sights on the goal. he strikes me as someone who see things mostly in black and white, having a friend he's known for decades revealed to be someone that is part of the group he is sworn to hunt, that could be an interesting character growth moment for him.

MT4K
08-06-2012, 09:59 PM
i'd like to see that actually, not really as "villains" but more as antagonists that you actually can see, understand and kinda agree with them. that's the best kind of opponent to me, one who connor would actually be a friend with if not for the divergence in their beliefs. not good vs evil but men on opposite sides fighting for what they believe is right.

That is kind of what the Templars are supposed to be already. It just hasn't been portrayed that well since AC1.

nightcobra
08-06-2012, 10:06 PM
That is kind of what the Templars are supposed to be already. It just hasn't been portrayed that well since AC1.

i know that, but then we had people like rodrigo and cesare borgia, those two could really have used a bit more of a sympathetic side to them.
though i really enjoyed punching rodrigo in the face (being portuguese and all, it felt like a digital revenge :p)

RatonhnhakeFan
08-06-2012, 10:08 PM
i'd like to see that actually, not really as "villains" but more as antagonists that you actually can see, understand and kinda agree with them. that's the best kind of opponent to me, one who connor would actually be a friend with if not for the divergence in their beliefs. not good vs evil but men on opposite sides fighting for what they believe is right.

for someone as connor, one who has been described as a good person and with a fervorous sense of justice, but also not one for pleasantries, a person that always has his sights on the goal. he strikes me as someone who see things mostly in black and white, having a friend he's known for decades revealed to be someone that is part of the group he is sworn to hunt, that could be an interesting character growth moment for him.Perhaps it could bring some interesting developement, but my main point was that it could feel kinda forced, kind of "really? Another one" if one after another Washington, Franklin, Lafayatte would be all getting revealed to Ratonhnhaké:ton as "omg they're Templars! Plot twist!". Unless he's aware of that from the beginning


That is kind of what the Templars are supposed to be already. It just hasn't been portrayed that well since AC1.Which has actual storyline consequences for AC3. I would imagine that the Assassins that Ratonhnhaké:ton joins would be well aware of the Borgias and all the other purely evil Templars from the past and that they would pass this knowledge to Ratonhnhaké:ton. I mean, beginning with Renaissance (print and all), information can't get lost/become forgotten as easily as during Altair's times. Along with the fact that its the Templars that destroy his village, I don't really see any friendships/deep understanding happening with Templars. To a certain degree, the black&white portrayal of the Templars in AC2-ACB already did some irreversable "damage" to moral ambiguity of the franchise

MasterSimaYi
08-06-2012, 10:09 PM
I'm not talking about the game, I'm talking about Ubisoft, they'd be risking a PR nightmare, but then again they did claim Henry Ford, Roosevelt, Churchhill and Edison were all Templars and they were in league with Hitler to start ww2, although Hitler betrayed them, you can't get much worse than that.

Actually Roosevelt, Churchill and Hitler were only Templar puppets, not actual Templars. And Hitler didn't betray them.


Honestly...who cares? Does it hurt you? No. Does it ruin your day? No. The guy was just making a thread about his opinion and did nothing in a rude manner while totally following board protocal. There is no reason, what so ever, to act in such a manner due to it. Are you a board mod? No. Is there an option to report spam? Yes. So why not try not to act like you matter and just let the guy post his opinion in peace without fear of some random directing him to scour the board for similar posts when something pops into his head he wishes to discuss (which is what this forum is for, is it not?). Of course, this has nothing to do with you bringing this subject up a few weeks back and not wanting your amazing insight overlooked I'm sure.

It's just a forum and he didn't do anything wrong, get over it, or become a mod and then you can act like this forum is yours to dictate.

Does it matter? No. Does it hurt me? No. Do I dictate anything? No. Could he have bothered to look for further than the first page? Yes. Does he have to make a new thread to discuss something he wants to discuss rather than voice his opinion on an already existing thread? No. Did I make any topic about this? No. Does your comment imply anything that I could not have said what I wanted to say nor does it forbid me from voicing my opinion? No. Do I really care about your opinion? No.

nightcobra
08-06-2012, 10:17 PM
Perhaps it could bring some interesting developement, but my main point was that it could feel kinda forced, kind of "really? Another one" if one after another Washington, Franklin, Lafayatte would be all getting revealed to Ratonhnhaké:ton as "omg they're Templars! Plot twist!". Unless he's aware of that from the beginning




i'd like to see them turning to templars beliefs and methods after the revolution, something like dealing with the aftermath of their war.
before and during the revolution they could be all about freedom for their fellow man, and after the war with the struggles that come with managing a newly formed independent nation the founding fathers one by one slowly but surely start to do things the way the templars would have done in order to bring order to a chaotic and weakened nation. doing it not because they didn't believe in the freedom they fought for but for necessity, to preserve the nation they have fought so long to create.

MT4K
08-06-2012, 10:30 PM
i know that, but then we had people like rodrigo and cesare borgia, those two could really have used a bit more of a sympathetic side to them.
though i really enjoyed punching rodrigo in the face (being portuguese and all, it felt like a digital revenge :p)

Hahaha lucky you then :D.


Which has actual storyline consequences for AC3. I would imagine that the Assassins that Ratonhnhaké:ton joins would be well aware of the Borgias and all the other purely evil Templars from the past and that they would pass this knowledge to Ratonhnhaké:ton. I mean, beginning with Renaissance (print and all), information can't get lost/become forgotten as easily as during Altair's times. Along with the fact that its the Templars that destroy his village, I don't really see any friendships/deep understanding happening with Templars. To a certain degree, the black&white portrayal of the Templars in AC2-ACB already did some irreversable "damage" to moral ambiguity of the franchise

I really do miss the moral ambiguity and am very happy to know it is returning somewhat in AC3, but you are right that the previous games did do a little damage to it. Many players who joined the franchise during the Ezio saga only really knew things in a black and white way unless they went back and played AC1. Then you have the problem of whether or not they actually finished it or not since many people find it hard to go back to AC1 after using all the gameplay enhancements of the Ezio saga.

I also agree and do believe that Connor is going to have a somewhat biased view of the templars at first in a similar way AC1 did things. You started the game and kind of had this idea that Templars were just bad and needed to be killed because they was bad people. As the game went on and you learnt more about your targets and their motives you started to question if you was really doing the right thing. I hope they pull the greyness off in a similar, or equally awesome way and have not just Connor questioning his allegiance, but the Players as well :D.

menacefox
08-06-2012, 11:11 PM
I don't think Templars and Freemasons are really connected.
Maybe only with idea for limited freedom at first? Hence, slavery wasn't abolished from day 1.
The reason is, the Pilgrims left England because they didn't agree with the King. In other words, they ditched the Templars.
Freemasonry shares combined ideas (from the abrahamic faiths) and accepts Christians, Jews and Muslims to join the organization.
This wasn't the case with the Templar Knights.

From Wikipedia

The Knights Templar is an international philanthropic chivalric order affiliated with Freemasonry. Unlike the initial degrees conferred in a Masonic Lodge, which only require a belief in a Supreme Being regardless of religious affiliation, the Knights Templar is one of several additional Masonic Orders in which membership is open only to Freemasons who profess a belief in the Christian religion. The full title of this Order is The United Religious, Military and Masonic Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta. The word "United" in this title indicates that more than one historical tradition and more than one actual Order are jointly controlled within this system. The individual Orders 'united' within this system are principally the Knights of the Temple (Knights Templar), the Knights of Malta, the Knights of St Paul, and only within the York Rite, the Knights of the Red Cross. The Order derives its name from the historical Knights Templar. One theory of the origins of Freemasonry claims direct descent from the historical Knights Templar through its final fourteenth-century members who took refuge in Scotland, or other countries where the Templar suppression was not enforced. Although the theory may not be dismissed, it is usually deprecated on grounds of lack of evidence by both masonic authorities[1] and historians.[2]


It's all a theory!

[EDIT: Typos]

projectpat06
08-06-2012, 11:36 PM
Here is a theory I've composed from everything I've read so far which I feel could be kind of cool. The Free Masons are composed of a group of prestigious men who originally fought for the idea of freedom. Washington, Franklin, and Lafayette all side with the patriots in opposition of British Control fighting for freedom. The Templars so far have been a group of prestigious individuals who believe in control and usually rise to power with the help and influence of the POE. It's true that there are templars on both sides and that Washington eventually holds a POE, but I still think the Free Masons were templars at one point and eventually broke away due to conflicting views much like the war itself. Of course each side in a war will have its traitors and moles (aka templars), and those in power of the British Red Coats will most likely be Templars. After all, Britain had one the most powerful and feared armies in the world at the time so to speak and was very dominant in terms of colonialization. (sorry for going off on a tangent) But anyways, I think it would be cool if Connor has to eventually recruit the help of the Free Masons in order to defeat the Templars of that time. This would be the first time the Assassins recruited the help of a rouge templar group to defeat the templars of this era which in turn brings about the Patriot victory. It could also very well be the reason why the Free Mason symbol is similar to the Assassin's symbol. They adopted it from their new allies but remain a separate group of leaders who fight for freedom for the rest of history in opposition to the templars. In present day, Desmond and the assassins, who have dwindled in numbers, may now need the aid of the Free Masons in order to defeat the templars once again so they have to use the animus to go back to Connor's time during the first time it was done. The secret to defeating the templars once and for all may lie within the archives of the free masons.....but I could be completely wrong. If was a writer for the game that would be idea I would toss around.

LightRey
08-07-2012, 12:27 AM
The OP should get his facts straight.
First of all, Freemasonry is most likely much older than the Order of the Knights Templar. There is simply a faction of freemasonry dedicated to keeping the Templar Order alive.
Second, Freemasonry is not a secret order (anymore), it's a secretive order.
Third, they're not masons, they're freemasons. There's a huge difference. Masons are people that work with stone, freemasons are members of an order that finds its origins in mason guilds.

Finally, unoriginal thread is unoriginal.

projectpat06
08-07-2012, 01:16 AM
The OP should get his facts straight.
First of all, Freemasonry is most likely much older than the Order of the Knights Templar. There is simply a faction of freemasonry dedicated to keeping the Templar Order alive.
Second, Freemasonry is not a secret order (anymore), it's a secretive order.
Third, they're not masons, they're freemasons. There's a huge difference. Masons are people that work with stone, freemasons are members of an order that finds its origins in mason guilds.

Finally, unoriginal thread is unoriginal.

Ahh good to know. Thanks. Well that trumped my part about them breaking off.

greatgeek
08-07-2012, 01:32 AM
Some Templars that were also Freemasons- Franklin Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, Nelson Aldrich, Lyndon Johnson, Henry Ford, Ransom Olds

Ashen-AngelFox
08-07-2012, 02:09 AM
The OP should get his facts straight.
First of all, Freemasonry is most likely much older than the Order of the Knights Templar. There is simply a faction of freemasonry dedicated to keeping the Templar Order alive.
Second, Freemasonry is not a secret order (anymore), it's a secretive order.
Third, they're not masons, they're freemasons. There's a huge difference. Masons are people that work with stone, freemasons are members of an order that finds its origins in mason guilds.

Finally, unoriginal thread is unoriginal.

I might catch some flack for this, but okay. The Freemasons do have a subgroup called the Knights Templar, but the Templar order that is the basis of the AC Templar's dates back to 1119 when they fought in the Crusades. The Freemasons didn't come around until later. Their earliest known document is dated 1329, I think, and their first known lodge was founded in Scotland in the late-16th to early-17th century. And they can be called Masons, although, Freemasons is probably more correct. The Freemasons started as a fraternity of stone masons, as you yourself pointed out. The third degree of Craft Freemasonry is even known as Master Mason.

As for the idea of the AC Freemasons being an offshoot of the AC Templars, especially given that they're a much older group than the real life Templar Order, I see no reason why that can't work.

medcsu
08-07-2012, 03:39 AM
Actually Roosevelt, Churchill and Hitler were only Templar puppets, not actual Templars. And Hitler didn't betray them.



Does it matter? No. Does it hurt me? No. Do I dictate anything? No. Could he have bothered to look for further than the first page? Yes. Does he have to make a new thread to discuss something he wants to discuss rather than voice his opinion on an already existing thread? No. Did I make any topic about this? No. Does your comment imply anything that I could not have said what I wanted to say nor does it forbid me from voicing my opinion? No. Do I really care about your opinion? No.

Of course you don't care about my opinion, that is why you decided to respond to it......

Serrachio
08-07-2012, 04:13 AM
I might catch some flack for this, but okay. The Freemasons do have a subgroup called the Knights Templar, but the Templar order that is the basis of the AC Templar's dates back to 1119 when they fought in the Crusades. The Freemasons didn't come around until later. Their earliest known document is dated 1329, I think, and their first known lodge was founded in Scotland in the late-16th to early-17th century. And they can be called Masons, although, Freemasons is probably more correct. The Freemasons started as a fraternity of stone masons, as you yourself pointed out. The third degree of Craft Freemasonry is even known as Master Mason.

As for the idea of the AC Freemasons being an offshoot of the AC Templars, especially given that they're a much older group than the real life Templar Order, I see no reason why that can't work.

Then again, given that AC doesn't always conform to our expectations, that doesn't guarantee that the Freemasons are linked to the Templar Order at all. Or, it could be like the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, we don't know for certain though.

Ashen-AngelFox
08-07-2012, 04:21 AM
That's always a possibility. I was simply pointing out that patrickj1's idea of the Freemasons being an offshoot of the Templars is also a possibility. As you say, we can't know for sure. At least until the game releases.

projectpat06
08-07-2012, 05:46 AM
Well in the CGI Trailer, Washington's facial expression or better lack thereof shows that something is up. It's all in his eyes. Right after he watches Connor kill the Templar, you can tell he knows what's up. I've always been highly impressed with Ubisoft on these games, but this one is really going to be something else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pUhraVG7Ow

MasterSimaYi
08-07-2012, 10:28 AM
Of course you don't care about my opinion, that is why you decided to respond to it......

Caring and responding are far from the same thing. I don't care about a lot of things, that doesn't mean I will just ignore them.

medcsu
08-07-2012, 04:18 PM
Caring and responding are far from the same thing. I don't care about a lot of things, that doesn't mean I will just ignore them.

Granted. However, to say you do not care what someone thinks and yet respond to that someones opinion on your behavior would equate to a need for justification on said actions. To need to justify actions via response would equate to caring about the comments in regards to actions.

Bottom line as I see it. It's the guys first post, no reason not to just cut him some slack as he (obviously) just had something he felt excited about and wanted to discuss rather than scour a forum to post in a specific thread. That is what forums are for and it doesn't hurt/bother anything by him doing it, that is all I am saying. I'd prefer seeing posts (non spam) pop up then have new users scared away. There is a lot to be excited about.

MasterSimaYi
08-07-2012, 04:30 PM
Granted. However, to say you do not care what someone thinks and yet respond to that someones opinion on your behavior would equate to a need for justification on said actions. To need to justify actions via response would equate to caring about the comments in regards to actions.

Bottom line as I see it. It's the guys first post, no reason not to just cut him some slack as he (obviously) just had something he felt excited about and wanted to discuss rather than scour a forum to post in a specific thread. That is what forums are for and it doesn't hurt/bother anything by him doing it, that is all I am saying. I'd prefer seeing posts (non spam) pop up then have new users scared away. There is a lot to be excited about.

That doesn't equate to caring about the comments at all, I am merely engaging in a discussion with you, not with the intention of changing your opinion of me. If I had the intention of changing your opinion of me, I would not have replied in the same annoying question-talk manner as you replied to me with. I find it also odd how out of my entire response, you only picked out that one line.

It's one of the most common things on forums to not encourage members to make a new thread for everything that pops up in their mind, and I don't encourage that either, especially when I've seen at least four threads already existing about the Freemasons here in this subforum. Forums are for discussions, yes, not for creating a new thread for something he is excited about regardless of if numerous already exist. I'm merely very annoyed that he just didn't even bother to look if there was an already existing thread about this. You've got your opinion and I've got mine, but I don't encourage the creation of yet ANOTHER thread about the same subject when it's already been discussed so many times.

medcsu
08-07-2012, 04:35 PM
That doesn't equate to caring about the comments at all, I am merely engaging in a discussion with you, not with the intention of changing your opinion of me. If I had the intention of changing your opinion of me, I would not have replied in the same annoying question-talk manner as you replied to me with. I find it also odd how out of my entire response, you only picked out that one line.

It's one of the most common things on forums to not encourage members to make a new thread for everything that pops up in their mind, and I don't encourage that either, especially when I've seen at least four threads already existing about the Freemasons here in this subforum. Forums are for discussions, yes, not for creating a new thread for something he is excited about regardless of if numerous already exist. I'm merely very annoyed that he just didn't even bother to look if there was an already existing thread about this. You've got your opinion and I've got mine, but I don't encourage the creation of yet ANOTHER thread about the same subject when it's already been discussed so many times.

Fair enough.

jmk1999
08-07-2012, 05:32 PM
guys, rather than insulting and berating a new member for not searching for something, simply let them know nicely and post a link to the appropriate topic if possible. there's no excuse for such behavior. please don't do this again. it puts the forum as a whole in a bad light. we're here to help and discuss, not insult act unwelcoming. thank you.

De Filosoof
08-08-2012, 02:50 PM
The pigpen symbols in the first glyph puzzle of AC2 translate to: "The masons brought it across the sea, George Washington passed it on"

Pretty interesting right?

hoganshero
08-10-2012, 03:11 PM
The problem with the idea of all the masons being Templar is that most of the figures that where masons were all still alive in 1783 when they storyline is supposed to end. So if all the well known masons are still alive at the end of the game Connor really screwed up.

De Filosoof
08-10-2012, 04:16 PM
The problem with the idea of all the masons being Templar is that most of the figures that where masons were all still alive in 1783 when they storyline is supposed to end. So if all the well known masons are still alive at the end of the game Connor really screwed up.

True, that's one of the downsides of being historically accurate.

willstannard
11-04-2012, 10:27 PM
Soo...Games out, did the masons make it in because I've heard nothing of them?

madozzz
11-24-2012, 01:41 AM
if u guys wanna know more about the free masons and know how they wash brain americans and control minds and about their history plz youtube "the arrivals" or go to www.wakeupproject.com

all i can tell u guys if u wanna wake up and see what are those ppl plz try the website and let me know thank you

empireecho
10-23-2013, 05:19 PM
Ubisoft are masons masons are pwns of Illuminati that all they did in games is the propaganda between reality and "fighting the enemies" like Far cry 3 example: Hoyt talks about "Globalization" and "slavery" so thats Illuminati trying to do many propaganda in AC series Far cry 3 Watch Dogs and more games about "we are watching you" and basically propaganda through "Said Alice" quetos .and Ubisoft promotes Masons and Illuminati through these games because they are pwns like Jay Z e.t.c they promotes them for money through propagands ,by the way Illuminati owns everything with so much money they have they can buy you and sell you in a second

Mr_Shade
10-23-2013, 05:23 PM
Please do not dig up year old threads.. if you can avoid it..

empireecho
10-23-2013, 05:24 PM
Please do not dig up year old threads.. if you can avoid it..
i didint know that was old

Mr_Shade
10-23-2013, 05:32 PM
It can be, considering we are 6 days away from AC4, the topics move on - however nice to see someone search for a relevant thread ;)

STDlyMcStudpants
10-23-2013, 06:50 PM
The Templar were disbanded, gathered, tortured and slaughtered during the crusades....that is where their order stopped.
The Knights Templar answered to no man but the pope...The king of France (King Philip IV) did not like this so he accused the pope of devil worship to get him out and his pope in and then later did the same to the Knights Templar and had them slowly cooked to death.
The supposed last words of the Templars Head Masters were
"Pope Clement, Chevalier Guillaume de Nogaret, King Philip! I summon you to the Tribunal of Heaven before the year is out!"
And long and be hold both died by the end of the year. First the pope and 2nd King Phillip in a hunting accident.
It is believed (not written down as fact) that those who escaped left to America, Claimed their stake there and changed their name - The Free Masons
History says that those who remained then became The Knights of Christ
But they are believed to have became the masons due to the same ideology, teachings, beliefs, and symbolism.

The Templars nor the Masons were bad guys in any sense other than radical thinking in a period where that meant instant damnation.
The Ideology of the Assassin's Creed is VERY Similar to that of the Knights Templar so I for one am very surprised they are the villains.
But it does make sense for the struggle to be against the templars (though their ideology is similar) as they were always after biblical artifacts.
But for what? Preservation or power?!

It is believed that they obtained possession of the Holy Grail, and a piece of "The True Cross" and used it to gain so much influence in the Catholic Church

STDlyMcStudpants
10-23-2013, 07:01 PM
PS
Who's to say that the war wasn't Templar Vs. Templar?
Freemason (New Templar) Vs Templar (Old Templar)
Say they were one order and split due to a difference of interest in this new world.
And either way Connor had to side with a Templar order...

LatinaC09
10-23-2013, 11:15 PM
Funny, I always thought that the Assassins logo/symbol looked similar to the Masonic symbol. Maybe it's just me though.

STDlyMcStudpants
10-23-2013, 11:46 PM
Funny, I always thought that the Assassins logo/symbol looked similar to the Masonic symbol. Maybe it's just me though.

thats because it is without the middle ;)

deadeagleman
10-24-2013, 11:16 PM
i seen a few masons signs and a few people with mason sign on their car, i kept wondering if i should join or not. but boy they everywhere in hidden ways.

STDlyMcStudpants
10-25-2013, 04:27 AM
i seen a few masons signs and a few people with mason sign on their car, i kept wondering if i should join or not. but boy they everywhere in hidden ways.

You have to be invited...you don't just join lol.

STDlyMcStudpants
10-25-2013, 04:47 AM
The Assassins are Templars! :O
http://i43.tinypic.com/jsfss2.png

pineal_gland
10-25-2013, 03:42 PM
http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/2512649.jpg

STDlyMcStudpants
10-25-2013, 06:10 PM
http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/2512649.jpg

:D