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View Full Version : AC: The Chain Story Discussion *** SPOILERS ***



twenty_glyphs
08-05-2012, 06:42 AM
I got my copy of The Chain comic in the mail today and have finished reading it. I thought it was pretty good, though it feels a little smaller in its impact on the AC story than The Fall felt. At the same time, it's a good story that makes you care about all the characters.

*** SPOILERS ***

The big story moment that will probably affect the story of AC3 the most is that Daniel Cross infiltrated an Assassin library in Moscow that Abstergo discovered in data they recovered during their purge of the Assassins. The library contained The Prophet's Codex, which was information written down by Ezio. Daniel discovered the entire Minerva speech from The Vault written down by Ezio, including the mention of Desmond.

This happened in October of 2002, so apparently Abstergo has known about Minerva's message for almost 10 years by the time they find Desmond. They seem to know about just about everything, so I wonder what their ultimate plan is for Desmond?

eagleforlife1
08-05-2012, 08:14 AM
Haven't read below the spiler warning as I would really like to purchase The Chain myself. However, living in England the Shipping costs more than the comic itself. I'm not sure how I'm going to get my hands on a copy.

LoyalACFan
08-05-2012, 08:20 AM
SPOILER


Wonder if the "Prophet's Codex" is what Ezio gave to Shao Jun in that box in Embers, and whether Connor will get his hands on it. Would have to be pretty small, though. Maybe just a series of letters. Nothing as huge and grand as Altair's Codex.

Anyway, would you mind briefly summarizing the events of Nikolai and Daniel's stories in The Chain? I'm not interested in graphic novels, and I don't really have any extra money to buy it anyway, but I'm addicted to all things Assassin's Creed :cool:

MasterSimaYi
08-05-2012, 09:50 AM
What? The Chain is already out yet? I better hurry my *** to the comic store.

eagleforlife1
08-05-2012, 10:01 AM
What? The Chain is already out yet? I better hurry my *** to the comic store.

I think the only way to get it is via Ubiworkshop.

MasterSimaYi
08-05-2012, 10:03 AM
I think the only way to get it is via Ubiworkshop.

I got all the separate issues and the Deluxe Edition from this one comic book store, they always import one issue every month. Though if they don't have one, I may have to consider cancel my Freedom Edition preorder and consider getting the Ubiworkshop Edition...

eagleforlife1
08-05-2012, 10:07 AM
I got all the separate issues and the Deluxe Edition from this one comic book store, they always import one issue every month. Though if they don't have one, I may have to consider cancel my Freedom Edition preorder and consider getting the Ubiworkshop Edition...

I got the Fall via independent comic book stores, but apparently the Chain isn't coming to independent stores. I emailed Ubi about this because I couldn't afford the shipping cost for it to be shipped to England.

dxsxhxcx
08-05-2012, 10:40 AM
SPOILER


Wonder if the "Prophet's Codex" is what Ezio gave to Shao Jun in that box in Embers, and whether Connor will get his hands on it. Would have to be pretty small, though. Maybe just a series of letters. Nothing as huge and grand as Altair's Codex.

Anyway, would you mind briefly summarizing the events of Nikolai and Daniel's stories in The Chain? I'm not interested in graphic novels, and I don't really have any extra money to buy it anyway, but I'm addicted to all things Assassin's Creed :cool:


I believe the content of that box is the same since Altair's time and whatever it is, that's what Ezio gave to Shao Jun... maybe this "codex" is what Ezio was writing at the beginning of AC Embers, at the end of the movie, together with the letter to Sofia, we can see a lot of pages at his desk...

De Filosoof
08-05-2012, 10:58 AM
I think the only way to get it is via Ubiworkshop.

This sucks pretty bad...

eagleforlife1
08-05-2012, 11:21 AM
This sucks pretty bad...

I know...

twenty_glyphs
08-05-2012, 07:33 PM
SPOILER


Wonder if the "Prophet's Codex" is what Ezio gave to Shao Jun in that box in Embers, and whether Connor will get his hands on it. Would have to be pretty small, though. Maybe just a series of letters. Nothing as huge and grand as Altair's Codex.

Anyway, would you mind briefly summarizing the events of Nikolai and Daniel's stories in The Chain? I'm not interested in graphic novels, and I don't really have any extra money to buy it anyway, but I'm addicted to all things Assassin's Creed *:cool:

I'm pretty sure the only way to get The Chain is through UbiWorkshop. The Fall was in comic shops because it was published through DC comics, but The Chain is published by UbiWorkshop themselves, like the Encyclopedia. Hopefully they will make it available in the app they just released containing the digital version of The Fall.

*** SPOILERS ***

I originally thought Ezio's Codex may have been in the box he gave to Shao Jun, and Daniel does get the book and other papers from a box in The Chain. But I looked at Embers, and the box he gave Shao Jun was much smaller and looked very different from the one shown in The Chain. Plus, so many of his papers were left on his desk at the end of Embers that I would think his Codex was collected by Sofia later and passed down with the Assassins. Also, it's explained to Daniel that it's not just Ezio's Codex in the library, but other things that Ezio found on his travels. You can see a sword or two and what might be a piece of armor next to the Codex that Daniel reads.

I'll try to give a short summary of the two stories. It's about the length of four normal-length individual comic books, at about 84 pages long. I'll just summarize the two stories on their own.

Nikolai is living in a cabin in the woods with his son, Innokenti Orelov (Nikolai calls him Kenya). Kenya seems to be around 7 years old or so. He can't bring himself to kill a deer they've hunted and wounded, despite Nikolai telling him the deer will suffer. One day a former acquaintance of Nikolai, an Assassin, shows up at their cabin and says it was wrong for Nikolai to just leave without telling them. He also says that Nikolai has seen messages intended for the Order (his vision at Tunguska), and that he took the Brotherhood's property when he used the Shard from the Staff of Eden for himself. The man wants Nikolai to come with him and threatens Kenya, so Nikolai kills him to save his son. Nikolai warns Kenya that more men will come and they should prepare themselves.

Nikolai tells Kenya about what happened to his mother and sister. The family was caught up in the Palmer Raids during 1919. The raids were attempts to deport radical leftists and fight Communism in America. Nikolai tried to escape with his family, but ended up being pushed out a window while holding Kenya as a baby. He never found his wife and daughter, but knew they had been arrested and were likely deported. He knew that many of the deportees got sick and died, and had given up hope after searching for two years and finding no signs of them.

Nikolai spends a long time training Kenya to fight and kill, but he is bad at it. Nikolai keeps making him sleep outside until he gets better. Eventually, Kenya gets the drop on his dad and gets a knife to his throat. Nikolai is proud and tells him when the time comes, he can't hesitate to kill, even if it's him. He goads Kenya into killing him then, and he begins to try before Nikolai stops him. He hugs Kenya and says he knew he was strong.

Some men show up at Nikolai's cabin, but a bomb goes off and takes some of them out when they open the door. The remaining team starts hunting for Nikolai in the woods. They seem to be working for J. Edgar Hoover in the Bureau of Investigation, but say they are answering to the Brotherhood. Nikolai and Kenya end up taking out the entire team but the leader, and continue fleeing through the woods. Nikolai is wounded in the leg.

When they try to cross a ravine, Kenya goes first. While Nikolai is about to cross, he's shot in the other leg by the leader of the team looking for him. The man wants to bring Nikolai back to Washington to find out all about the artifact's message, which he says was for the Brotherhood. He tries to threaten Kenya and tells them that his sister is alive in Russia with a husband and child. Nikolai says he's lying, but the man says that the entire family was meant to be deported together since the Brotherhood looks after its own. Nikolai tells Kenya to be strong (a reference to him saying he couldn't hesitate to take a life earlier), then Kenya shoots his dad and the agent with one shot from across the ravine, killing them both. Kenya goes back to get his dad's hidden blade and hooded coat, then walks off into the woods/mountains on his own.

It's pretty sad and makes the Assassin Order of the early 20th century look pretty brutal. I'll summarize Daniel's half of the story later today.

De Filosoof
08-05-2012, 07:54 PM
Nikolai is living in a cabin in the woods with his son, Innokenti Orelov (Nikolai calls him Kenya). Kenya seems to be around 7 years old or so. He can't bring himself to kill a deer they've hunted and wounded, despite Nikolai telling him the deer will suffer. One day a former acquaintance of Nikolai, an Assassin, shows up at their cabin and says it was wrong for Nikolai to just leave without telling them. He also says that Nikolai has seen messages intended for the Order (his vision at Tunguska), and that he took the Brotherhood's property when he used the Shard from the Staff of Eden for himself. The man wants Nikolai to come with him and threatens Kenya, so Nikolai kills him to save his son. Nikolai warns Kenya that more men will come and they should prepare themselves.

Nikolai tells Kenya about what happened to his mother and sister. The family was caught up in the Palmer Raids during 1919. The raids were attempts to deport radical leftists and fight Communism in America. Nikolai tried to escape with his family, but ended up being pushed out a window while holding Kenya as a baby. He never found his wife and daughter, but knew they had been arrested and were likely deported. He knew that many of the deportees got sick and died, and had given up hope after searching for two years and finding no signs of them.

Nikolai spends a long time training Kenya to fight and kill, but he is bad at it. Nikolai keeps making him sleep outside until he gets better. Eventually, Kenya gets the drop on his dad and gets a knife to his throat. Nikolai is proud and tells him when the time comes, he can't hesitate to kill, even if it's him. He goads Kenya into killing him then, and he begins to try before Nikolai stops him. He hugs Kenya and says he knew he was strong.

Some men show up at Nikolai's cabin, but a bomb goes off and takes some of them out when they open the door. The remaining team starts hunting for Nikolai in the woods. They seem to be working for J. Edgar Hoover in the Bureau of Investigation, but say they are answering to the Brotherhood. Nikolai and Kenya end up taking out the entire team but the leader, and continue fleeing through the woods. Nikolai is wounded in the leg.

When they try to cross a ravine, Kenya goes first. While Nikolai is about to cross, he's shot in the other leg by the leader of the team looking for him. The man wants to bring Nikolai back to Washington to find out all about the artifact's message, which he says was for the Brotherhood. He tries to threaten Kenya and tells them that his sister is alive in Russia with a husband and child. Nikolai says he's lying, but the man says that the entire family was meant to be deported together since the Brotherhood looks after its own. Nikolai tells Kenya to be strong (a reference to him saying he couldn't hesitate to take a life earlier), then Kenya shoots his dad and the agent with one shot from across the ravine, killing them both. Kenya goes back to get his dad's hidden blade and hooded coat, then walks off into the woods/mountains on his own.

It's pretty sad and makes the Assassin Order of the early 20th century look pretty brutal. I'll summarize Daniel's half of the story later today.

So wait, what?!

Assassins working for J. Edgar Hoover?! That wouldn't make any sense. They were pretending to be assassins right? I don't get it.

tarrero
08-05-2012, 08:32 PM
Thank you very much!!!! And what a sad story :(

dxsxhxcx
08-05-2012, 08:34 PM
@twenty_glyphs

thanks... the story seems to be pretty cool, can't wait to read it.. :)

SaintPerkele
08-05-2012, 09:04 PM
Please continue with the Daniel aspect of the story, I beg you :D

LoyalACFan
08-05-2012, 09:31 PM
I'm pretty sure the only way to get The Chain is through UbiWorkshop. The Fall was in comic shops because it was published through DC comics, but The Chain is published by UbiWorkshop themselves, like the Encyclopedia. Hopefully they will make it available in the app they just released containing the digital version of The Fall.

*** SPOILERS ***

I originally thought Ezio's Codex may have been in the box he gave to Shao Jun, and Daniel does get the book and other papers from a box in The Chain. But I looked at Embers, and the box he gave Shao Jun was much smaller and looked very different from the one shown in The Chain. Plus, so many of his papers were left on his desk at the end of Embers that I would think his Codex was collected by Sofia later and passed down with the Assassins. Also, it's explained to Daniel that it's not just Ezio's Codex in the library, but other things that Ezio found on his travels. You can see a sword or two and what might be a piece of armor next to the Codex that Daniel reads.

I'll try to give a short summary of the two stories. It's about the length of four normal-length individual comic books, at about 84 pages long. I'll just summarize the two stories on their own.

Nikolai is living in a cabin in the woods with his son, Innokenti Orelov (Nikolai calls him Kenya). Kenya seems to be around 7 years old or so. He can't bring himself to kill a deer they've hunted and wounded, despite Nikolai telling him the deer will suffer. One day a former acquaintance of Nikolai, an Assassin, shows up at their cabin and says it was wrong for Nikolai to just leave without telling them. He also says that Nikolai has seen messages intended for the Order (his vision at Tunguska), and that he took the Brotherhood's property when he used the Shard from the Staff of Eden for himself. The man wants Nikolai to come with him and threatens Kenya, so Nikolai kills him to save his son. Nikolai warns Kenya that more men will come and they should prepare themselves.

Nikolai tells Kenya about what happened to his mother and sister. The family was caught up in the Palmer Raids during 1919. The raids were attempts to deport radical leftists and fight Communism in America. Nikolai tried to escape with his family, but ended up being pushed out a window while holding Kenya as a baby. He never found his wife and daughter, but knew they had been arrested and were likely deported. He knew that many of the deportees got sick and died, and had given up hope after searching for two years and finding no signs of them.

Nikolai spends a long time training Kenya to fight and kill, but he is bad at it. Nikolai keeps making him sleep outside until he gets better. Eventually, Kenya gets the drop on his dad and gets a knife to his throat. Nikolai is proud and tells him when the time comes, he can't hesitate to kill, even if it's him. He goads Kenya into killing him then, and he begins to try before Nikolai stops him. He hugs Kenya and says he knew he was strong.

Some men show up at Nikolai's cabin, but a bomb goes off and takes some of them out when they open the door. The remaining team starts hunting for Nikolai in the woods. They seem to be working for J. Edgar Hoover in the Bureau of Investigation, but say they are answering to the Brotherhood. Nikolai and Kenya end up taking out the entire team but the leader, and continue fleeing through the woods. Nikolai is wounded in the leg.

When they try to cross a ravine, Kenya goes first. While Nikolai is about to cross, he's shot in the other leg by the leader of the team looking for him. The man wants to bring Nikolai back to Washington to find out all about the artifact's message, which he says was for the Brotherhood. He tries to threaten Kenya and tells them that his sister is alive in Russia with a husband and child. Nikolai says he's lying, but the man says that the entire family was meant to be deported together since the Brotherhood looks after its own. Nikolai tells Kenya to be strong (a reference to him saying he couldn't hesitate to take a life earlier), then Kenya shoots his dad and the agent with one shot from across the ravine, killing them both. Kenya goes back to get his dad's hidden blade and hooded coat, then walks off into the woods/mountains on his own.

It's pretty sad and makes the Assassin Order of the early 20th century look pretty brutal. I'll summarize Daniel's half of the story later today.

Wow... That's... Yeah. Sad. Although I pretty much figured Nikolai wasn't going to make it through the story alive.

Acrimonious_Nin
08-05-2012, 09:40 PM
hmm did you notice the "family heirloom" around the old ladies neck at the end ;D I presume that this is a hint that it was Daniels grandmother or mother or something....probably something that was passed down since Nikolai hinting that "they were alive the whole time".

SixKeys
08-05-2012, 09:47 PM
Thanks a lot for the summary, twenty_glyphs. Can't wait to hear about the Daniel half.

I read The Fall through Ubiworkshop's website. It was okay, but I couldn't entirely get into it. It felt a bit messy and disjointed, though the art was good. The Chain sounds a bit more coherent and interesting.

eagleforlife1
08-05-2012, 11:01 PM
Some men show up at Nikolai's cabin, but a bomb goes off and takes some of them out when they open the door. The remaining team starts hunting for Nikolai in the woods. They seem to be working for J. Edgar Hoover in the Bureau of Investigation, but say they are answering to the Brotherhood. Nikolai and Kenya end up taking out the entire team but the leader, and continue fleeing through the woods. Nikolai is wounded in the leg.


When you say they 'seem' to be working for J. Edgar Hoover what do you mean by this? Is it not evident that they work for him or is there some kind of confusion about who they work for?

twenty_glyphs
08-06-2012, 05:38 AM
When you say they 'seem' to be working for J. Edgar Hoover what do you mean by this? Is it not evident that they work for him or is there some kind of confusion about who they work for?

*** SPOILERS ***

Someone asked the leader if they should have checked in with the Bureau after Nikolai's cabin blew up, and he says that it's above Hoover's head and that they answer to the Brotherhood. There's a "Behind the Chain" section of some notes at the end of the book that talks about the history behind the Palmer Raids and also mentions that Palmer put a 24-year-old Hoover in charge of a new division of the Bureau of Investigation named the General Intelligence Division. The division's goal was to investigate radical groups and identify their members. It's not clear if the Assassins infiltrated this group of the government as a cover to help them track down Nikolai, since he was a Russian immigrant.

Here's the summary of Daniel's story:

Daniel wakes up in the Animus in 2002 and is being checked out by a female doctor named Dr. Sung. She says she's been his doctor while he's been in the Animus, and that it sent her a signal that his brain activity was going haywire, so she shut it down and didn't want him to go back in. She shows him around Abstergo, where everyone views him as a hero. She says the Animus program has been expanded, and explains that for the last 14 months Daniel has been reliving the memories of his grandfather Innokenti Orelov in realtime. She then sets him up in a bedroom of his own.

Later, Daniel surprises Dr. Sung and asks her to get him back into the Animus because he's going crazy outside of it. She says even without the risks, Daniel's Animus was decommissioned and he hasn't been prepared to interface with the new models. She says the withdrawal symptoms will go away and leaves. Daniel finds her keycard on the floor though (she dropped it after he scared her by sneaking up on her) and uses it to access a room that looks a lot like the large room of Animii that Desmond and Lucy traveled through to escape Abstergo at the start of AC2. In the room, Daniel sees Bellamy from The Fall plugged into an Animus. He finds an empty Animus that looks more like the version from AC1 and lies down to use it. He continues to experience memories of Kenya that I've summarized before.

Daniel wakes up later and Dr. Sung says she's disappointed in him. She says the Animus wasn't even on. Daniel asks her if she knows what happened to Nikolai's wife and daughter. She only knows they were arrested during the Palmer Raids. She goes on to tell him that Dr. Vidic cares about him and that he has a family at Abstergo.

Daniel continues to experience Innokenti's life, and wakes up one night to find Nikolai's file in his room. This is just after he's seen Nikolai make Innokenti sleep outside, and Daniel seems to no longer care for Nikolai, because he crumbles up the picture of him that he finds in his file.

Later, Daniel has begun to train new recruits to Abstergo. Dr. Sung comes by and says he missed his weekly session, and asks how he's doing and how he's coping with the Bleeding Effect. He says he slips in and out, but his meds are helping. Then they go by R&D, where Daniel picks up a new hidden blade design that he requested.

While Daniel is working out, someone asks him to come with him and leads him to a meeting with Dr. Vidic. Vidic hugs Daniel and tells him how proud they are of him, then asks him how he'd feel about a business trip and assignment. Abstergo's raids of Assassin camps uncovered evidence of a hidden Library of Ivan the Terrible underneath the Bolshoi Theater in Moscow. Abstergo believes that generations of Assassin leaders, including the one they call The Prophet, have used the library as a repository for their records.

Daniel travels to Moscow and sneaks into the library. He's surprised by someone keeping watch over the library and almost kills him, but stops. The man thinks that Daniel has come to relieve him of his duty to watch over the library, even though the person who was supposed to come is weeks late. He describes how they are cut off from everything underground to protect security, and assumes Daniel will be there for months on his own. Daniel says he was told the top priority was to protect the Prophet's Codex, which the man agrees with. He shows him where all the stuff Ezio collected and wrote down is.

Daniel then calls in and reads off the message that Minerva delivered to Ezio, ending with Desmond's name. The person on the phone says they'll cross-reference the name "Desmond" with known Assassin operatives and that this could be the missing link they've been looking for (I assume this is why it's called The Chain, since there are no other references to the title). Daniel takes the box with Ezio's writings and leaves, saying they can send in a cleanup crew. As he leaves, we see the man who was keeping watch dead on the floor.

Next Daniel goes to a church, where he sits next to an old woman who says he's new there. She asks what he's doing, and he says "visiting family." She says his face looks just like her son's. The implication is that this is Nikolai's daughter, who did survive and live out her life in Russia after being deported. It ends with Daniel leaving the church.

tarrero
08-06-2012, 06:11 AM
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

Cool, however I find odd they did not explain how abstergo got him, may be on AC3. Speaking of which, did The chain mention anything, besides desmond, regarding AC3?

LoyalACFan
08-06-2012, 08:11 AM
Thanks, twenty_glyphs! Although there's one thing I'm not understanding.

SPOILER

How the HELL did he not go insane from being in the Animus that long? Lucy said that 16 was in the Animus for "days" at a time, and... well, we know how that turned out. And Daniel was in the Animus for over a YEAR, and he's pretty much OK...? :confused:

MasterSimaYi
08-06-2012, 12:20 PM
So, Abstergo had known about Ezio since 2002, yet in The Lost Archive Vidic is completely unaware of his existence, telling his assistant to "Find out what you can about this 'Ezio Auditore.' I want his records on my desk by the end of the week."

I'm really starting to love the modern day story now, but my God, continuity errors! :(

De Filosoof
08-06-2012, 12:23 PM
So, Abstergo had known about Ezio since 2002, yet in The Lost Archive Vidic is completely unaware of his existence, telling his assistant to "Find out what you can about this 'Ezio Auditore.' I want his records on my desk by the end of the week."

I'm really starting to love the modern day story now, but my God, continuity errors! :(

Yeah, that's a little weird right?

twenty_glyphs
08-06-2012, 03:32 PM
So, Abstergo had known about Ezio since 2002, yet in The Lost Archive Vidic is completely unaware of his existence, telling his assistant to "Find out what you can about this 'Ezio Auditore.' I want his records on my desk by the end of the week."

I'm really starting to love the modern day story now, but my God, continuity errors! :(

You make a good point, but I'm not sure where the error lies. In The Chain, Abstergo only calls him The Prophet, and Daniel does as well. It's possible that even after finding his Codex, Abstergo didn't know who The Prophet was. So finding out more about Ezio could have been to help Vidic verify that Ezio was The Prophet. The problem with that theory is that in The Chain, the man that Daniel meets in the library does mention Ezio by name, though only his first name. Maybe that slipped past Daniel, or maybe that was the error. It might have been there just so readers would make the connection between The Prophet and Ezio, since some people might not remember him being called that. Or maybe it didn't slip past him, but Vidic still wanted to verify everything about the Ezio Auditore he'd just heard about to see if he matched their profile of The Prophet.

On the other hand, Abstergo continues to act strangely and seems to know everything and nothing at once. The AC1 emails paint them as desperate to launch their satellite by 12/21/2012 because of them being under government scrutiny, while everything else points at them basically controlling many of the world's governments. Each piece of the story also reveals more evidence that they know full well about the solar catastrophe coming on 12/21/2012, which may be the real reason for their launch window. After The Lost Archive revealed that Abstergo allowed Desmond to read their emails, I don't know how much we can trust that information in those emails was fully truthful. Between that and everything they went through to make Desmond think he had escaped, they definitely have a big plan and something up their sleeve. Rift 10 in Brotherhood explicitly says as much:


64 squares. All ranks and files. Every move anticipated. Every response engineered. Abstergo created it. It's the company's game, there is no way out. H. Act II, Sc.2 192. Abran los ojos. Tuam libera mentem. The King. F2. Your move.

The puzzle solution was to take the King off the chess board, basically refusing to play Abstergo's game with their rules. "Abran los ojos. Tuam libera mentem" translates to "Open your eyes. Free your mind." I think that was the purpose of Juno making Desmond stab Lucy, to basically change the game that Abstergo had set up.

Along with the "Every move anticipated, every response engineered" lines, I think that Abstergo has been acting like it knows much less than it really knows the whole time. They seem to think it will make the Assassins respond in certain ways. So it's entirely possible that Vidic was still playing dumb even with Subject 16, making him think they didn't know more about Ezio than they did.

Another interesting note is how if you take Jeffrey Yohalem's comments about the emails Lucy was getting from "William M." in Brotherhood into account, it seems pretty likely that the three emails she got from "William M." were actually from Abstergo. The last one she got actually fits right in with The Chain, hinting that they've suspected about Minerva for almost a decade (Daniel discovered Ezio's Codex in late October of 2002, and this email was in early October 2012):


The issues you raised in your last voicemail have taken me by surprise, to say the least. Think of all the work, all the stress and planning we've put into this. We had our suspicions for years about Minerva, about that particular Piece of Eden. Your tapes confirmed it, now we can study and discover the truth.

You've been waiting nearly a decade for this day, don't put Desmond in danger just because of feelings you may or may not have. We're only going to get one shot at this with the short amount of time left. Don't fail us now.

Gil_217
08-06-2012, 03:38 PM
So, Abstergo had known about Ezio since 2002, yet in The Lost Archive Vidic is completely unaware of his existence, telling his assistant to "Find out what you can about this 'Ezio Auditore.' I want his records on my desk by the end of the week."

I'm really starting to love the modern day story now, but my God, continuity errors! :(

Wait a minute, Vidic did indeed said that, but what's bothering me is that sentence doesn't even make sense in The Lost Archive context.

I don't know if I'm missing/forgetting something but Vidic said that during Clay's time in Abstergo, so that implies that he wasn't aware of Ezio's existence before kidnapping Clay. Shouldn't Vidic and Abstergo be aware of Ezio before kidnapping Clay? Why did they kidnapped him for then? Maybe they kidnapped him to relive the memories of other ancestors and when they found that Clay was a descendant of Ezio and learned about who Ezio was and is importance to their goals they immediately used him to relive Ezio's memories. I don't know, or I am just missing something here.

SixKeys
08-06-2012, 04:11 PM
Thanks for the summary again! Now I'm kind of tempted to look into getting this after all.

MasterSimaYi
08-06-2012, 04:12 PM
You make a good point, but I'm not sure where the error lies. In The Chain, Abstergo only calls him The Prophet, and Daniel does as well. It's possible that even after finding his Codex, Abstergo didn't know who The Prophet was. So finding out more about Ezio could have been to help Vidic verify that Ezio was The Prophet. The problem with that theory is that in The Chain, the man that Daniel meets in the library does mention Ezio by name, though only his first name. Maybe that slipped past Daniel, or maybe that was the error. It might have been there just so readers would make the connection between The Prophet and Ezio, since some people might not remember him being called that. Or maybe it didn't slip past him, but Vidic still wanted to verify everything about the Ezio Auditore he'd just heard about to see if he matched their profile of The Prophet.

I find it difficult to believe that for nine years, they didn't know a single thing about the Prophet, nor that none of these letters and pages that Ezio owned mentioned his name. If they knew about the existence of "the Prophet" and that it was an "Ezio," it seems improbable that they couldn't find any info about him, but when they knew his name was"Ezio Auditore" from Clay they could find a lot of things right away. I've yet to read The Chain so I won't draw any full conclusions yet, but it just seems like an oversight to me. And if they sacrificed canon so the player can draw the connection, which they don't seem to have before, wouldn't really jusfity it either.


Another interesting note is how if you take Jeffrey Yohalem's comments about the emails Lucy was getting from "William M." in Brotherhood into account, it seems pretty likely that the three emails she got from "William M." were actually from Abstergo. The last one she got actually fits right in with The Chain, hinting that they've suspected about Minerva for almost a decade (Daniel discovered Ezio's Codex in late October of 2002, and this email was in early October 2012):

Yes, the emails being from Vidic seems the most likely. Tough in regards to that last sentence, I think Lucy's lines from AC2 fits that better: "I've been going through his files. Vidic flagged a couple of his Animus sessions. A bunch of different ancestors, different dates and locations... ancient Africa, the Middle East... but towards the end, he became obsessed with Italy. I think he knew about the Vault."


I don't know if I'm missing/forgetting something but Vidic said that during Clay's time in Abstergo, so that implies that he wasn't aware of Ezio's existence before kidnapping Clay. Shouldn't Vidic and Abstergo be aware of Ezio before kidnapping Clay? Why did they kidnapped him for then? Maybe they kidnapped him to relive the memories of other ancestors and when they found that Clay was a descendant of Ezio and learned about who Ezio was and is importance to their goals they immediately used him to relive Ezio's memories. I don't know, or I am just missing something here.

Clay was kidnapped because he had other ancestors of note that Abstergo could explore. The Assassins made sure that he got captured by Abstergo's Lineage Discovery and Acquisistion division for his mission.

Gil_217
08-06-2012, 04:53 PM
So, basically, there is only one explanation to this:

The Templars became aware of the existence of a Prophet and is importance to them in 2002 but they couldn't find out who he was, even though this might be hard to believe.

Then, after 9 years, they found out who he was during Clay's time at Abstergo, between February 2011-2012.

After realizing that Ezio is an ancestor of Clay and learning he was the prophet and had contact with an Apple of Eden and entered a vault created by Those Who Came Before and talked to one of them, they just used Clay to relive Ezio's memories.

This is the only way that Vidic's words in The Lost Archive can make sense.

SixKeys
08-06-2012, 04:59 PM
The games are the ultimate canon. Whenever spin-offs (books, comics) contradict things in the games, those things should be regarded as non-canon. This only applies to the non-canon parts. The stuff that doesn't directly contradict the games is canon.

twenty_glyphs
08-06-2012, 05:43 PM
So, basically, there is only one explanation to this:

The Templars became aware of the existence of a Prophet and is importance to them in 2002 but they couldn't find out who he was, even though this might be hard to believe.

Then, after 9 years, they found out who he was during Clay's time at Abstergo, between February 2011-2012.

After realizing that Ezio is an ancestor of Clay and learning he was the prophet and had contact with an Apple of Eden and entered a vault created by Those Who Came Before and talked to one of them, they just used Clay to relive Ezio's memories.

This is the only way that Vidic's words in The Lost Archive can make sense.

No, the other explanation is that Vidic was simply playing dumb when he said "find out about this Ezio Auditore" when Subject 16 could hear him. Abstergo has displayed a pattern of knowing a lot more than they let on around Desmond, so it's possible they were making it look like they didn't know as much as they did for Clay's benefit, for whatever reason. Also, I'm pretty sure they didn't get to view Ezio's memories of the Vault from Subject 16, which is why Lucy was targeting that memory in AC2 and dropped off the tapes of that memory for Abstergo. The email to her from my previous post indicates Abstergo suspected things about Minerva that Lucy's tapes finally proved. This new revelation still fits with Lucy saying that Vidic was obsessed with Italy and the Vault. At the time they knew Minerva's message, but seeing the event for themselves would reveal so much more, especially if it related to what Minerva did to Ezio's Apple.

Also, I have no problem believing that Abstergo couldn't find out who the Prophet was for 9 years. Even Shaun mentioned in the AC2 database that there's not much in the history books about Ezio. Vidic himself has gone on and on about how the Animus can let them see the real history that books can't adequately record. The Chain shows that Daniel read Minerva's message, but it's possible that Ezio didn't write down where he saw the message or enough clues about his identity. The Fall showed us that The Mentor is a title used elusively in the Assassin Order, without many people knowing who that person is. It's not unlikely that Ezio's identity as the Prophet and later Mentor were well-guarded or forgotten secrets.


The games are the ultimate canon. Whenever spin-offs (books, comics) contradict things in the games, those things should be regarded as non-canon. This only applies to the non-canon parts. The stuff that doesn't directly contradict the games is canon.

That's true, but seeing as The Chain was overseen by Corey May (his name is in the credits, and I've seen him tweeting a little about the book) and they touted The Chain as being a companion to AC3 and having a story connection to it, I have to assume that Daniel's discovery of Minerva's message was explicitly put into the book as a tie-in to AC3. Especially since that's the only story development that really ties The Chain back to the main AC game story.

At the end of the day, I don't expect every single line of dialogue to add up with continuity perfectly. The story is just so big and spreading across so many mediums that it's impossible to keep track of it all. It's completely possible that mentioning Ezio's name in The Chain was simply a mistake that wasn't caught. Also, the story is full of so many mysteries and Abstergo trying to hide secrets and playing mind games, so it's hard to tell for sure if things are plot holes or simply part of the mystery.

Gil_217
08-06-2012, 05:58 PM
@twenty_glyphs

Very good theory.

When I said reliving Ezio's memories I didn't meant that Clay actually relived the memories Abstergo wanted, because obviously he didn't. I was just saying that they wanted Clay to relive those memories, but he couldn't.

Acrimonious_Nin
08-06-2012, 06:06 PM
When I read the comic I thought it was implied that, from 2002 up to Daniels mission, some years had gone by. I am assuming that they find this info. around 2005 - 2010 because following the Abstergo Industries e-mail, it says that they were planning for project siren around these years, so they had to of known and been planning for this "Desmond" around this time.

EDIT:

-Lucy enters Abstergo in 2005
-project siren is mentioned by an employee at Abstergo around Nov. - Dec. of 2010(when did project siren really start getting planned for ???)
- Clay gets caught; Planned by the Assassins.Feb. 1, 2011

In the E-mail that W.V is sending D.C in ''The Chain'' they refer to "The prophet" and "Ezio" it would make sense that Daniel is on this mission around 2011 - 2012, since they are aware of Ezio which this info could have come from Clay, but project siren starts somewhere in 2010, implying that they knew about Ezio and Desmond before Clay.(This is a clear contradiction to the story line unless they always knew about Ezio and we don't know that.)

in TLA in "The Truth" memory level after the doctor tells W.V that they are keeping S16 in for too long(which implies that a dangerously significant amount of time has gone by from 2011 - 2012.) W.V says, "We've found a perfect candidate named Desmond Miles. His ancestral tree fits the data gathered from S16's memory of ezio Auditore. But it is quite likely that he won't cede essential details freely."


In the end I assumed that Daniel was on this mission from W.V somewhere between 2005 - 2010 which is where once they get the name "Desmond" they start planning for project siren around this time frame.

eagleforlife1
08-06-2012, 07:01 PM
Nikolai's story reminds me a lot of the end of Red Dead Redemption. He retired from his old life and tries to train his son to hunt and kill despite his son not wanting to (John and Jack Marston). His house is then raided by the people he used to work for and thought were his allies (in both stories it is the Burea of Investigation that performs this act). Both Nikolai and John end up dying in the sieges.

twenty_glyphs
08-06-2012, 07:40 PM
When I read the comic I thought it was implied that, from 2002 up to Daniels mission, some years had gone by. I am assuming that they find this info. around 2005 - 2010 because following the Abstergo Industries e-mail, it says that they were planning for project siren around these years, so they had to of known and been planning for this "Desmond" around this time.

EDIT:

-Lucy enters Abstergo in 2005
-project siren is mentioned by an employee at Abstergo around Nov. - Dec. of 2010(when did project siren really start getting planned for ???)
- Clay gets caught; Planned by the Assassins.Feb. 1, 2011

In the E-mail that W.V is sending D.C in ''The Chain'' they refer to "The prophet" and "Ezio" it would make sense that Daniel is on this mission around 2011 - 2012, since they are aware of Ezio which this info could have come from Clay, but project siren starts somewhere in 2010, implying that they knew about Ezio and Desmond before Clay.(This is a clear contradiction to the story line unless they always knew about Ezio and we don't know that.)

in TLA in "The Truth" memory level after the doctor tells W.V that they are keeping S16 in for too long(which implies that a dangerously significant amount of time has gone by from 2011 - 2012.) W.V says, "We've found a perfect candidate named Desmond Miles. His ancestral tree fits the data gathered from S16's memory of ezio Auditore. But it is quite likely that he won't cede essential details freely."


In the end I assumed that Daniel was on this mission from W.V somewhere between 2005 - 2010 which is where once they get the name "Desmond" they start planning for project siren around this time frame.

The email that Warren Vidic sent to Daniel detailing the mission and narrating the scenes of Daniel finding the library is dated 10/15/2002. This also happens just after Daniel's meeting with Vidic where they send him out on his assignment immediately, and tell him they've arranged for the recruits to be trained in his absence.

Gil_217
08-06-2012, 07:45 PM
@ Acrimonious_Nin

At this point, I think we should just forget that the Abstergo site says that Project Siren has been in development since 2010, because it just doesn't make any sense.
In The Lost Archive, it is shown that Abstergo and Vidic only became aware of who Desmond is in 2012, so that just completely contradicts the information from the Abstergo site. Think of it as a retcon if you want.

Acrimonious_Nin
08-06-2012, 07:51 PM
The email that Warren Vidic sent to Daniel detailing the mission and narrating the scenes of Daniel finding the library is dated 10/15/2002. This also happens just after Daniel's meeting with Vidic where they send him out on his assignment immediately, and tell him they've arranged for the recruits to be trained in his absence.

I missed that part... sorry about that. Did you notice the "shard".


@ Acrimonious_Nin

At this point, I think we should just forget that the Abstergo site says that Project Siren has been in development since 2010, because it just doesn't make any sense.
In The Lost Archive, it is shown that Abstergo and Vidic only became aware of who Desmond is in 2012, so that just completely contradicts the information from the Abstergo site. Think of it as a retcon if you want.


Yeah, you have a point. why the contradiction ? you would have thought that the story was more well thought up ?

Gil_217
08-06-2012, 07:55 PM
Yeah, you have a point. why the contradiction ? you would have thought that the story was more well thought up ?

It doesn't really bother me since the source that said Project Siren started in 2010 came from the Abstergo website, which really isn't a very important source of information, far from it and I'm sure very few people even know that exists.

Acrimonious_Nin
08-06-2012, 08:30 PM
true.

SteelCity999
08-06-2012, 08:32 PM
Interesting thoeries. I do have to lean toward Abstergo controlling both sides of the equation to a major extent - a very similar plot device that the prequel Star Wars movies used. In the end, this very well could be true and the idea of an orchestrated destiny is definitely plausible - whether by templar or TWCB device.

twenty_glyphs
08-06-2012, 08:43 PM
@ Acrimonious_Nin

At this point, I think we should just forget that the Abstergo site says that Project Siren has been in development since 2010, because it just doesn't make any sense.
In The Lost Archive, it is shown that Abstergo and Vidic only became aware of who Desmond is in 2012, so that just completely contradicts the information from the Abstergo site. Think of it as a retcon if you want.

I don't think The Chain information contradicts any of the emails from the Abstergo Industries site. Here's the most revealing email from that site, which makes me think they definitely had the story planned out in late 2010/early 2011 for Lucy to be the traitor she was portrayed as in The Lost Archive:


Harland Hammerstein

SUBJECT: Animus Project

December 10, 16:30

To: Erica Nichols

Erica,

I’m not going to mince words, I know there’s been a leak within the Animus Project. Warren insists that everything is secure, but I am missing some of the Animus blueprints. They are not to be found. No one will listen to me for some reason, which seems ridiculous considering how important this project is to our goals. I’ve also discovered a company code word, something called Project Siren. What is that name referring to? Is this something being planned for Subject 17? I think Warren may be behind the leak, or Lucy. Those two have been up to something for a while now. Do you know anything about this, Erica?

Don’t peddle this email off to your assistant, you’re not getting away that easily.

-H. Hammerstein

That perfectly fits what we know about Lucy, since she and Vidic were likely behind the Animus leaks so Rebecca could build the Assassin version. I still think when they say in The Lost Archive that they've found a perfect candidate in Desmond Miles, that they are simply not revealing their full hand to Subject 16. They probably didn't know he'd commit suicide, so they were probably trying to prevent any chance that Desmond could find out that they've known about him in some capacity for a long time and have big plans for him.

Also, in The Chain, Daniel specifically says that the only name in Minerva's message is Desmond, with no surname ("The rest is up to you, Desmond."). When Vidic says they've found a perfect candidate, he could simply be saying they've found the perfect candidate whose first name is Desmond and whose ancestral tree matches the data gathered from Subject 16's ancestral memories of Ezio Auditore. Just because they knew they were looking for someone named Desmond for almost 10 years doesn't mean they knew exactly who he was or whose genetic memory he would have. They could have been planning everything, including Project Siren, for their mystery man without knowing it was specifically Desmond Miles.

Gil_217
08-06-2012, 09:01 PM
I don't think The Chain information contradicts any of the emails from the Abstergo Industries site. Here's the most revealing email from that site, which makes me think they definitely had the story planned out in late 2010/early 2011 for Lucy to be the traitor she was portrayed as in The Lost Archive:



That perfectly fits what we know about Lucy, since she and Vidic were likely behind the Animus leaks so Rebecca could build the Assassin version. I still think when they say in The Lost Archive that they've found a perfect candidate in Desmond Miles, that they are simply not revealing their full hand to Subject 16. They probably didn't know he'd commit suicide, so they were probably trying to prevent any chance that Desmond could find out that they've known about him in some capacity for a long time and have big plans for him.

Also, in The Chain, Daniel specifically says that the only name in Minerva's message is Desmond, with no surname ("The rest is up to you, Desmond."). When Vidic says they've found a perfect candidate, he could simply be saying they've found the perfect candidate whose first name is Desmond and whose ancestral tree matches the data gathered from Subject 16's ancestral memories of Ezio Auditore. Just because they knew they were looking for someone named Desmond for almost 10 years doesn't mean they knew exactly who he was or whose genetic memory he would have. They could have been planning everything, including Project Siren, for their mystery man without knowing it was specifically Desmond Miles.

I actually thought about that too but that's just so elaborated and complicated to most fans. I bet most people who actually read your post just said: dafuq did I just read??

For example, why are they talking about a Subject 17 when there wasn't even a Subject 16 at the time of that e-mail. It just doesn't make sense.

If they actually planned Project Siren so early and were ready to implement it whenever Desmond appeared why call him Subject 17 before knowing who he was and before finding him, if they didn't knew when they will eventually find him. Why are they assuming Desmond is going to be Subject 17, before knowing who he even is.

SteelCity999
08-06-2012, 09:20 PM
I don't think The Chain information contradicts any of the emails from the Abstergo Industries site. Here's the most revealing email from that site, which makes me think they definitely had the story planned out in late 2010/early 2011 for Lucy to be the traitor she was portrayed as in The Lost Archive:



That perfectly fits what we know about Lucy, since she and Vidic were likely behind the Animus leaks so Rebecca could build the Assassin version. I still think when they say in The Lost Archive that they've found a perfect candidate in Desmond Miles, that they are simply not revealing their full hand to Subject 16. They probably didn't know he'd commit suicide, so they were probably trying to prevent any chance that Desmond could find out that they've known about him in some capacity for a long time and have big plans for him.

Also, in The Chain, Daniel specifically says that the only name in Minerva's message is Desmond, with no surname ("The rest is up to you, Desmond."). When Vidic says they've found a perfect candidate, he could simply be saying they've found the perfect candidate whose first name is Desmond and whose ancestral tree matches the data gathered from Subject 16's ancestral memories of Ezio Auditore. Just because they knew they were looking for someone named Desmond for almost 10 years doesn't mean they knew exactly who he was or whose genetic memory he would have. They could have been planning everything, including Project Siren, for their mystery man without knowing it was specifically Desmond Miles.

Project Siren....as in the Siren who lures men, or mariners, by their charm and seduction to their ultimate destruction. Agreed, there could have been multiple subjects without exact information but they knew they existed so they could refer to them as Subject xx - not to mention its much colder sounding and more science project-like.

twenty_glyphs
08-06-2012, 09:36 PM
I actually thought about that too but that's just so elaborated and complicated to most fans. I bet most people who actually read your post just said: dafuq did I just read??

For example, why are they talking about a Subject 17 when there wasn't even a Subject 16 at the time of that e-mail. It just doesn't make sense.

If they actually planned Project Siren so early and were ready to implement it whenever Desmond appeared why call him Subject 17 before knowing who he was and before finding him, if they didn't knew when they will eventually find him. Why are they assuming Desmond is going to be Subject 17, before knowing who he even is.

Well, they'd know who was going to be what Subject because they were the ones planning it. At the time of the Abstergo Industries site emails, Subject 15 had just been "retired". Perhaps they already knew who Subject 16 would be since Lucy was working for both sides, and somehow they knew he would lead them to whoever Desmond was. They could simply have planned for Subject 17 to only be the person they found who was the "missing link" in whatever they are planning.

I know it's complicated, but it's not like the emails on abstergoindustries.com were meant for casual fans of the series. It's also not that important to understand every little detail to get the bigger picture -- that Abstergo is planning something big for 12/21/2012, they know that Minerva left a message for someone named Desmond, they know there is something special about Ezio's Apple, and they are trying to manipulate Desmond to unwittingly fulfill their plan.

Another seeming inconsistency is why Abstergo wants Desmond. AC1 makes us think it's for the map of the Pieces of Eden, and in The Lost Archive when they first mention Desmond, Vidic says "Desmond is the key to the location of the Pieces of Eden". A few minutes later when he's talking to Lucy, he says "Desmond will lead you to the Apple and then you bring it right to us." Combined with the email from "William M." to Lucy that says "We had our suspicions for years about Minerva, about that particular Piece of Eden", it seems like they really want the Apple that Desmond found at the end of Brotherhood. Do they want that Apple for the Eye-Abstergo satellite? Do they think that Ezio's Apple is the true key to locating the other Pieces of Eden? Still lots of oddities like this, which makes me think there are big things we just don't know yet that will help us make sense of the story once we know.

MasterSimaYi
08-06-2012, 10:03 PM
The games are the ultimate canon. Whenever spin-offs (books, comics) contradict things in the games, those things should be regarded as non-canon. This only applies to the non-canon parts. The stuff that doesn't directly contradict the games is canon.

No. There are no tiers of canon. I've learned that in many cases, the novels seem to have precedence over the games.

SixKeys
08-06-2012, 10:59 PM
No. There are no tiers of canon. I've learned that in many cases, the novels seem to have precedence over the games.

The novels clearly have some big mistakes like the end of AC: Renaissance where Rodrigo Borgia commits suicide. We know the game is canon in this case. Similarly, the French graphic novels are considered non-canon by the devs except for the parts that don't directly contradict the games, such as the existence of Aquilus.

LoyalACFan
08-07-2012, 12:33 AM
No. There are no tiers of canon. I've learned that in many cases, the novels seem to have precedence over the games.

How? There was some extra stuff in the novels that wasn't in any of the games, but some of it just blatantly contradicts the overall story, even events that happen in the other novels. According to the books... Ezio's a Christian? He uses handheld bombs to blow up a dozen or so warships, then has no idea about bombs when he gets to Constantinople? Rodrigo Borgia commits suicide? Ezio learns of Cristina's death from Machiavelli? I know the novels are technically canon, but all of these instances make me believe that there's no way they should take precedence over the games.

Acrimonious_Nin
08-07-2012, 12:57 AM
I don't think The Chain information contradicts any of the emails from the Abstergo Industries site. Here's the most revealing email from that site, which makes me think they definitely had the story planned out in late 2010/early 2011 for Lucy to be the traitor she was portrayed as in The Lost Archive:



That perfectly fits what we know about Lucy, since she and Vidic were likely behind the Animus leaks so Rebecca could build the Assassin version. I still think when they say in The Lost Archive that they've found a perfect candidate in Desmond Miles, that they are simply not revealing their full hand to Subject 16. They probably didn't know he'd commit suicide, so they were probably trying to prevent any chance that Desmond could find out that they've known about him in some capacity for a long time and have big plans for him.

Also, in The Chain, Daniel specifically says that the only name in Minerva's message is Desmond, with no surname ("The rest is up to you, Desmond."). When Vidic says they've found a perfect candidate, he could simply be saying they've found the perfect candidate whose first name is Desmond and whose ancestral tree matches the data gathered from Subject 16's ancestral memories of Ezio Auditore. Just because they knew they were looking for someone named Desmond for almost 10 years doesn't mean they knew exactly who he was or whose genetic memory he would have. They could have been planning everything, including Project Siren, for their mystery man without knowing it was specifically Desmond Miles.


Well, they'd know who was going to be what Subject because they were the ones planning it. At the time of the Abstergo Industries site emails, Subject 15 had just been "retired". Perhaps they already knew who Subject 16 would be since Lucy was working for both sides, and somehow they knew he would lead them to whoever Desmond was. They could simply have planned for Subject 17 to only be the person they found who was the "missing link" in whatever they are planning.

I know it's complicated, but it's not like the emails on abstergoindustries.com were meant for casual fans of the series. It's also not that important to understand every little detail to get the bigger picture -- that Abstergo is planning something big for 12/21/2012, they know that Minerva left a message for someone named Desmond, they know there is something special about Ezio's Apple, and they are trying to manipulate Desmond to unwittingly fulfill their plan.

Another seeming inconsistency is why Abstergo wants Desmond. AC1 makes us think it's for the map of the Pieces of Eden, and in The Lost Archive when they first mention Desmond, Vidic says "Desmond is the key to the location of the Pieces of Eden". A few minutes later when he's talking to Lucy, he says "Desmond will lead you to the Apple and then you bring it right to us." Combined with the email from "William M." to Lucy that says "We had our suspicions for years about Minerva, about that particular Piece of Eden", it seems like they really want the Apple that Desmond found at the end of Brotherhood. Do they want that Apple for the Eye-Abstergo satellite? Do they think that Ezio's Apple is the true key to locating the other Pieces of Eden? Still lots of oddities like this, which makes me think there are big things we just don't know yet that will help us make sense of the story once we know.


so we can safely say that:

- [2002] they found the name Desmond, but the lack of a surname slows them down until they discover his motorcycle licence fingerprint sometime 2012.

- [2005] Lucy defects to the Templar order

- [2005 - 2011] Warren and Lucy prepare for project siren which involves purposely leaking plans about the portable animus to Rebecca.

- [2007 - 2010] Clay is an active Assassin agent. while in January 2008 is when he steals the e-mail that has W.V talking about the portable animus chair with someone in the Vatican. while in Dec. 10, 2010 is when the Abstergo employee is talking about the leak that they just caught on to project siren, which implies that by 2010 this project has already been active.

- [2011] Clay is caught

- [2012] Desmond is caught. project siren commences

If this is the case then it makes sense. I just got confused because I never noticed the date the e-mail was sent : / oh well. so in the end it was a well written story arch. :D glad to see I was mistaken about that. :)

and according to the animus memo from TLA can it be safe to say that around 2008 - 2010 is when Lucy leaks the plans to Rebecca and project siren starts getting prepared for ? since W.V is asking for money from some guy in the Vatican ? the e-mail talks about plans for a probable portable animus, which implies that it has not yet been made or at least not by them. so I suspect this really started around 2009. :D

Gil_217
08-07-2012, 09:34 AM
so we can safely say that:

- [2002] they found the name Desmond, but the lack of a surname slows them down until they discover his motorcycle licence fingerprint sometime 2012.

- [2005] Lucy defects to the Templar order

- [2005 - 2011] Warren and Lucy prepare for project siren which involves purposely leaking plans about the portable animus to Rebecca.

- [2007 - 2010] Clay is an active Assassin agent. while in January 2008 is when he steals the e-mail that has W.V talking about the portable animus chair with someone in the Vatican. while in Dec. 10, 2010 is when the Abstergo employee is talking about the leak that they just caught on to project siren, which implies that by 2010 this project has already been active.

- [2011] Clay is caught

- [2012] Desmond is caught. project siren commences

If this is the case then it makes sense. I just got confused because I never noticed the date the e-mail was sent : / oh well. so in the end it was a well written story arch. :D glad to see I was mistaken about that. :)

and according to the animus memo from TLA can it be safe to say that around 2008 - 2010 is when Lucy leaks the plans to Rebecca and project siren starts getting prepared for ? since W.V is asking for money from some guy in the Vatican ? the e-mail talks about plans for a probable portable animus, which implies that it has not yet been made or at least not by them. so I suspect this really started around 2009. :D

Just one thing Acrimonious: I don't think Lucy defected or even made contact with Abstergo in 2005. It was said that she was sent into the world by the Assassins in 2005 in order for the Templars to at some time reach her. In 2005 she was 17. She first went to university to study cognitive neuroscience and it was after this that she made contact and eventually started working for Abstergo. We learned this information in Assassin's Creed and of course it could be made up by the Templars but I don't really see the point in it, since the Templars needed a reason to reach her, they wouldn't just contract an unknown 17 year old, that's why I believe she went to the university first and it was after some time there that she was contracted by Abstergo. And, I think she didn't defect immediately, it took some time.

But this doesn't contradict anything in your timeline.

MasterSimaYi
08-07-2012, 10:53 AM
Also, I have no problem believing that Abstergo couldn't find out who the Prophet was for 9 years. Even Shaun mentioned in the AC2 database that there's not much in the history books about Ezio. Vidic himself has gone on and on about how the Animus can let them see the real history that books can't adequately record. The Chain shows that Daniel read Minerva's message, but it's possible that Ezio didn't write down where he saw the message or enough clues about his identity. The Fall showed us that The Mentor is a title used elusively in the Assassin Order, without many people knowing who that person is. It's not unlikely that Ezio's identity as the Prophet and later Mentor were well-guarded or forgotten secrets.

That is true, but since there wasn't much in the history books about Ezio, how come Abstergo could find information about him when they knew the surname Auditore, but were completely left in the dark when they didn't? I find that a little difficult to believe. Also, what you said about the Mentor is mainly in regards to the Mentor's position after the Mentor became the leader of the entire Order in the 20th century; as proven by the "Homecoming" memory and The Lost Archive, Ezio's name was quite well known. That doesn't mean his name wouldn't be lost to history, but his real identity wasn't specifically guarded because he was a Mentor.

Vidic playing dumb with Clay sounds like the more plausible option, but I don't really agree with your reasons for why they would do that. They weren't planning on letting go of Clay and they would dispose of him anyways.


At the end of the day, I don't expect every single line of dialogue to add up with continuity perfectly. The story is just so big and spreading across so many mediums that it's impossible to keep track of it all. It's completely possible that mentioning Ezio's name in The Chain was simply a mistake that wasn't caught. Also, the story is full of so many mysteries and Abstergo trying to hide secrets and playing mind games, so it's hard to tell for sure if things are plot holes or simply part of the mystery.

But it should. There is this one person named Leland Chee who works on Star Wars and Indiana Jones. He keeps track of the continuity of those universes by recording it in big databases. I don't think Ubisoft has anyone who does that, which is quite a shame. In a lot of cases, employees use the Wiki if they need to look something up, and I can easily tell you that we get a lot of things wrong when they aren't properly cleared up.


The novels clearly have some big mistakes like the end of AC: Renaissance where Rodrigo Borgia commits suicide. We know the game is canon in this case. Similarly, the French graphic novels are considered non-canon by the devs except for the parts that don't directly contradict the games, such as the existence of Aquilus.

For example, in the Brotherhood novel, Claudia stepped down as Madam of the Rosa in Fiore in 1504, while in the Da Vinci Disappearance she is still Madam by 1506. The Encyclopedia backs the novel up by saying she stepped down in 1504. The same is said for the events concerning Swami's and Maria's deaths in The Secret Crusade, as the Encyclopedia says that these are canon instead of how the events unfold in Revelations. Oh, and Rodrigo survived at the end of Renaissance...

Gil_217
08-07-2012, 11:10 AM
For example, in the Brotherhood novel, Claudia stepped down as Madam of the Rosa in Fiore in 1504, while in the Da Vinci Disappearance she is still Madam by 1506. The Encyclopedia backs the novel up by saying she stepped down in 1504. The same is said for the events concerning Swami's and Maria's deaths in The Secret Crusade, as the Encyclopedia says that these are canon instead of how the events unfold in Revelations. Oh, and Rodrigo survived at the end of Renaissance...

Claudia could had stepped down as Madam of the Rosa in Fiore in 1504 and Rosa took her place but only for awhile. When Claudia felt she was ready to return, she did, and in 1506 she returned. It's a possible explanation that makes no source wrong.

Regarding the other example, you are assuming that the Encyclopedia, just because it sometimes backs up the novels and not the games is the one that defines what is canon and what is not, which I think is wrong, since the games should always be the top tier regarding canon.

For example, in the Encyclopedia, it says that Sofia Sartor was born in 1473, while in the Assassin's Creed: Revelations database it is said that she was born in 1476. I think that we should always go with the information presented in the games, and everything that contradicts it should not be considered canon.

With this said, I don't even know why they contradict themselves so much regarding this kind of information, even if this information is considered trivial. Take the example of Sofia's birth year for example. I think they should take your advice Sima, and hire someone to keep track of all this information, in order to not cause confusion.

MasterSimaYi
08-07-2012, 11:17 AM
Claudia could had stepped down as Madam of the Rosa in Fiore in 1504 and Rosa took her place but only for awhile. When Claudia felt she was ready to return, she did, and in 1506 she returned. It's a possible explanation that makes no source wrong.

Regarding the other example, you are assuming that the Encyclopedia, just because it sometimes backs up the novels and not the games is the one that defines what is canon and what is not, which I think is wrong, since the games should always be the top tier regarding canon.

For example, in the Encyclopedia, it says that Sofia Sartor was born in 1473, while in the Assassin's Creed: Revelations database it is said that she was born in 1476. I think that we should always go with the information presented in the games, and everything that contradicts it should not be considered canon.

With this said, I don't even know why they contradict themselves so much regarding this kind of information, even if this information is considered trivial. Take the example of Sofia's birth year for example. I think they should take your advice Sima, and hire someone to keep track of all this information, in order to not cause confusion.

From 1504 to 1507 Claudia resided in Florence with Paola. She didn't return to Rome until then.

And yes, I do. Assassin's Creed is long past the point that it's just a game series, it is now a universe. When there are two sources saying one thing, when there is only one source saying something else, even a game, why would the game have precedence? I've thought and theorized long and hard about several of these conflictions, whereas in some cases the games are most fitting and in others some other media is. It's really a bad system, I agree, and at this rate there are bound to be a lot more of these errors...

The Encyclopedia is riddled with trivial errors like that, a whole lot more than just Sofia's birthdate. Whereas going into detail about events isn't just a trivial error. If you try to find out when Domenico Auditore bought the Villa Auditore, you will only find conflicting sources. :/

eagleforlife1
08-07-2012, 11:18 AM
Just to confirm what I feared I had the following email exchange with Ubiworkshop:

Hello
I was just wondering whether AC: The Chain would be releasing in independent stores as The Fall was. I would be interested in purchasing it but the cost of shipping to get it to England is more than the book itself.

Unfortunately, I can confirm that Assassin’s Creed The Chain is solely available on UbiWorkshop.com at this time.
No release in independent stores has been announced so far.

MasterSimaYi
08-07-2012, 11:20 AM
Just to confirm what I feared I had the following email exchange with Ubiworkshop:

Hello
I was just wondering whether AC: The Chain would be releasing in independent stores as The Fall was. I would be interested in purchasing it but the cost of shipping to get it to England is more than the book itself.

Unfortunately, I can confirm that Assassin’s Creed The Chain is solely available on UbiWorkshop.com at this time.
No release in independent stores has been announced so far.

Darn. :( Sounds like I'm really going to have to order it from Ubiworkshop then...

Gil_217
08-07-2012, 11:33 AM
From 1504 to 1507 Claudia resided in Florence with Paola. She didn't return to Rome until then.

And yes, I do. Assassin's Creed is long past the point that it's just a game series, it is now a universe. When there are two sources saying one thing, when there is only one source saying something else, even a game, why would the game have precedence? I've thought and theorized long and hard about several of these conflictions, whereas in some cases the games are most fitting and in others some other media is. It's really a bad system, I agree, and at this rate there are bound to be a lot more of these errors...

The Encyclopedia is riddled with trivial errors like that, a whole lot more than just Sofia's birthdate. Whereas going into detail about events isn't just a trivial error. If you try to find out when Domenico Auditore bought the Villa Auditore, you will only find conflicting sources. :/

And that's why they should hire someone, like you said, to keep track of all of this information.

Off-Topic: In The Secret Crusade, it is said that Alta´r, Maria and Darim returned to Masyaf after Genghis Khan assassination in 1227, but in Revelations they showed that they returned in 1228. In this case, the information from the game looks more fitting, since they killed Khan in August 1227, and taking into account that the travel between Mongolia and Masyaf is very long, especially in those times, it seems most fitting that they arrived at Masyaf in 1228.

MasterSimaYi
08-07-2012, 11:38 AM
And that's why they should hire someone, like you said, to keep track of all of this information.

Off-Topic: In The Secret Crusade, it is said that Alta´r, Maria and Darim returned to Masyaf after Genghis Khan assassination in 1227, but in Revelations they showed that they returned in 1228. In this case, the information from the game looks more fitting, since they killed Khan in August 1227, and taking into account that the travel between Mongolia and Masyaf is very long, especially in those times, it seems most fitting that they arrived at Masyaf in 1228.

Yes, early 1228 seems more likely, but it's possible they arrived in very late 1227, I suppose. Revelations also says that the event is also spread over a longer period of time, while in TSC it is spread over 2 days. TSC sounds more plausible in that case, as Alta´r met with Abbas when they arrived, broke Malik out of prison during the night, and confronted Abbas after that. Alta´r doesn't have much reason to stay there for about a week, let alone a month or more.

Gil_217
08-07-2012, 12:32 PM
Yes, early 1228 seems more likely, but it's possible they arrived in very late 1227, I suppose. Revelations also says that the event is also spread over a longer period of time, while in TSC it is spread over 2 days. TSC sounds more plausible in that case, as Alta´r met with Abbas when they arrived, broke Malik out of prison during the night, and confronted Abbas after that. Alta´r doesn't have much reason to stay there for about a week, let alone a month or more.

When did they say in Revelations that the event spread over a longer period of time? I don't remember. And I agree with you, it makes much more sense that particular event just spread over two days.

MasterSimaYi
08-07-2012, 12:40 PM
When did they say in Revelations that the event spread over a longer period of time? I don't remember. And I agree with you, it makes much more sense that particular event just spread over two days.

From the "A New Regime" memory:

Maria: Where is our eldest son? Does Darim know his brother is dead?
Alta´r: I sent him a message four days ago. With luck it has reached him already.

Gil_217
08-07-2012, 01:35 PM
From the "A New Regime" memory:

Maria: Where is our eldest son? Does Darim know his brother is dead?
Alta´r: I sent him a message four days ago. With luck it has reached him already.

Actually, I think now that makes more sense. That dialog indicates they stayed in Masyaf 5 days, which is not even hard to believe and actually makes more sense because of Darim. Think with me, if you remember, in The Secret Crusade, as soon as they arrived in Masyaf, Alta´r sent Darim to Alamut to retrieve Sef. In that same day, when he goes to talk to Abbas, he's informed of Sef's death and Malik's imprisonment. He immediately sent someone to reach Darim, but obviously it would take time to find and intercept him, some days I say, and I believe that's why they created that dialog. Alta´r just waited 4 days in order for Darim to arrive in time.

MasterSimaYi
08-07-2012, 01:54 PM
Actually, I think now that makes more sense. That dialog indicates they stayed in Masyaf 5 days, which is not even hard to believe and actually makes more sense because of Darim. Think with me, if you remember, in The Secret Crusade, as soon as they arrived in Masyaf, Alta´r sent Darim to Alamut to retrieve Sef. In that same day, when he goes to talk to Abbas, he's informed of Sef's death and Malik's imprisonment. He immediately sent someone to reach Darim, but obviously it would take time to find and intercept him, some days I say, and I believe that's why they created that dialog. Alta´r just waited 4 days in order for Darim to arrive in time.

Darim doesn't arrive in Masyaf at all in TSC, Alta´r doesn't send him a letter. Alta´r simply meets Darim in Alamut.

Gil_217
08-07-2012, 02:12 PM
Maybe I'm wrong then, but I always read that Darim arrived with them at Masyaf, not to mention that Revelations shows Darim in Masyaf. I don't believe that after knowing of Sef's death, Alta´r sent a message to Darim who was at Alamut and then Darim made his way to Masyaf. That would take a lot of time.

For me, the explanation that makes more sense is the one I gave in my last post, but that's just me of course.

I don't have access to The Secret Crusade now, so I can't confirm or deny anything, but this is a resume of The Secret Crusade from the Wiki:

49 - The Ibn-La'Ahad family rode slowly into Masyaf, where Swami (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Swami) - still an apprentice when Alta´r left - greeted them first. Masyaf had become a darker place, and had changed much to what Alta´r had planned it to be, acting in on the Assassin's instincts (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Eagle_Vision#Eagle_Sense). They were led to a small house to the west of the fortress, where they were told that Malik was in prison, Sef had traveled to Alamut (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Alamut), and a meeting of the council had been planned the next day; with Abbas as chairman. Alta´r told Darim to ride to Alamut, in order to bring Sef back.

MasterSimaYi
08-07-2012, 02:15 PM
Maybe I'm wrong then, but I always read that Darim arrived with them at Masyaf, not to mention that Revelations shows Darim in Masyaf. I don't believe that after knowing of Sef's death, Alta´r sent a message to Darim who was at Alamut and then Darim made his way to Masyaf. That would take a lot of time.

For me, the explanation that makes more sense is the one I gave in my last post, but that's just me of course.

I don't have access to The Secret Crusade now, so I can't confirm or deny anything, but this is a resume of The Secret Crusade from the Wiki:

49 - The Ibn-La'Ahad family rode slowly into Masyaf, where Swami (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Swami) - still an apprentice when Alta´r left - greeted them first. Masyaf had become a darker place, and had changed much to what Alta´r had planned it to be, acting in on the Assassin's instincts (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Eagle_Vision#Eagle_Sense). They were led to a small house to the west of the fortress, where they were told that Malik was in prison, Sef had traveled to Alamut (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Alamut), and a meeting of the council had been planned the next day; with Abbas as chairman. Alta´r told Darim to ride to Alamut, in order to bring Sef back.

Uhu, that is when Alta´r, Maria and Darim arrive from Mongolia. Darim leaves, Alta´r and Maria meet with Abbas later that day, Alta´r breaks Malik out of prison that night and then Alta´r and Maria confront Abbas.

That brings me to another thing, Alta´r does tell Darim in Revelations that Abbas killed Malik. How? When? Why didn't Abbas show his head? If Alta´r already knew this, why did he take so long to take action? It just makes no sense. Totally in conflict with TSC.

BTW, this is extremely off-topic. :p

Gil_217
08-07-2012, 02:48 PM
Uhu, that is when Alta´r, Maria and Darim arrive from Mongolia. Darim leaves, Alta´r and Maria meet with Abbas later that day, Alta´r breaks Malik out of prison that night and then Alta´r and Maria confront Abbas.

That brings me to another thing, Alta´r does tell Darim in Revelations that Abbas killed Malik. How? When? Why didn't Abbas show his head? If Alta´r already knew this, why did he take so long to take action? It just makes no sense. Totally in conflict with TSC.

BTW, this is extremely off-topic. :p

LOL, that was exactly what I said when I mentioned Darim. Read it again and see if it doesn't make sense:

That dialog indicates they stayed in Masyaf 5 days, which is not even hard to believe and actually makes more sense because of Darim. Think with me, if you remember, in The Secret Crusade, as soon as they arrived in Masyaf from Mongolia, Alta´r sent Darim to Alamut to retrieve Sef. In that same day, when he goes to talk to Abbas, he's informed of Sef's death and Malik's imprisonment. He immediately sent someone to reach Darim, but obviously it would take time to find and intercept him, some days I say, and I believe that's why they created that dialog. Alta´r just waited those 4 days in order for Darim to arrive in time at Masyaf, as we saw in Revelations.

I'm trying to make sense of this using information from both The Secret Crusade and Revelations.

MasterSimaYi
08-07-2012, 02:55 PM
LOL, that was exactly what I said when I mentioned Darim. Read it again and see if it doesn't make sense:

That dialog indicates they stayed in Masyaf 5 days, which is not even hard to believe and actually makes more sense because of Darim. Think with me, if you remember, in The Secret Crusade, as soon as they arrived in Masyaf from Mongolia, Alta´r sent Darim to Alamut to retrieve Sef. In that same day, when he goes to talk to Abbas, he's informed of Sef's death and Malik's imprisonment. He immediately sent someone to reach Darim, but obviously it would take time to find and intercept him, some days I say, and I believe that's why they created that dialog. Alta´r just waited those 4 days in order for Darim to arrive in time at Masyaf, as we saw in Revelations.

I'm trying to make sense of this using information from both The Secret Crusade and Revelations.

Yes, but Alta´r and Maria just randomly decide to confront Abbas in Revelations, and Darim is only mentioned midway through the conversation. If he really was waiting for Darim, why didn't he wait until he arrived, instead of just guessing if the message arrived rather than guessing if Darim would arrive.

By the way, some time ago I made a list of a lot of canon errors, which Ubisoft said they would use to clear up some errors in the Encyclopedia. We can theorize on this, but I think we will have the correct answer in October.

Gil_217
08-07-2012, 03:25 PM
Yes, but Alta´r and Maria just randomly decide to confront Abbas in Revelations, and Darim is only mentioned midway through the conversation. If he really was waiting for Darim, why didn't he wait until he arrived, instead of just guessing if the message arrived rather than guessing if Darim would arrive.

By the way, some time ago I made a list of a lot of canon errors, which Ubisoft said they would use to clear up some errors in the Encyclopedia. We can theorize on this, but I think we will have the correct answer in October.

Well, I guess Alta´r just grew tired of waiting, since like you said he wasn't even sure if Darim received the message or not, not to mention that Alta´r was completely eager to confront Abbas and he just couldn't wait any longer.

Basically, his original "plan" was to confront Abbas as soon as Darim arrived but due to uncertainty regarding if Darim was warned or not, he just scrapped it and went with Maria to confront Abbas, probably hoping that his son would appear in the meantime.

It's certainly off-topic, but at least it has been a very good discussion regarding a topic of Assassin's Creed. And it's not like people are even talking about the topic of the thread, unfortunately. The only reason this thread is still on page 1 is because of this discussion, unfortunately.

twenty_glyphs
08-07-2012, 03:29 PM
That is true, but since there wasn't much in the history books about Ezio, how come Abstergo could find information about him when they knew the surname Auditore, but were completely left in the dark when they didn't? I find that a little difficult to believe. Also, what you said about the Mentor is mainly in regards to the Mentor's position after the Mentor became the leader of the entire Order in the 20th century; as proven by the "Homecoming" memory and The Lost Archive, Ezio's name was quite well known. That doesn't mean his name wouldn't be lost to history, but his real identity wasn't specifically guarded because he was a Mentor.

Vidic playing dumb with Clay sounds like the more plausible option, but I don't really agree with your reasons for why they would do that. They weren't planning on letting go of Clay and they would dispose of him anyways.

Vidic playing dumb probably fits the easiest right now since it doesn't have to account for so many details. And Abstergo certainly appears to be playing some sort of game. And yes, they weren't planning on letting Clay live, but I think it would still be smart for Abstergo not to reveal their full hand in case something went wrong.

As for finding out about Ezio, there's just no way to know right now. It appears that Abstergo began to discover a lot about Ezio and realize that he was the Prophet who entered the Vault after they got their hands on Subject 16. The other explanation (other than a plot hole) is that Abstergo is also playing Lucy, and want it to appear to her that they are discovering all of this information just now so she isn't aware of their full plan. Maybe they weren't even that concerned with Ezio and were more interested in finding out who Desmond was from 2002-2011. In The Lost Archive, Vidic seems to have been more concerned with the Apple than Ezio himself; he said "If he sees the Apple, let me know immediately."


But it should. There is this one person named Leland Chee who works on Star Wars and Indiana Jones. He keeps track of the continuity of those universes by recording it in big databases. I don't think Ubisoft has anyone who does that, which is quite a shame. In a lot of cases, employees use the Wiki if they need to look something up, and I can easily tell you that we get a lot of things wrong when they aren't properly cleared up.

You're right that Ubisoft should be keeping better track of this stuff, but I'm willing to cut them a little slack for now. Part of the problem is that they have stories going on in so many different locations and time periods, varying between fictional and non-fictional elements, making for huge amounts of data to try to keep track of. It would be nice if they kept a central database of years pertaining to characters and events that every writer had to reference when putting together their stories. It should be easy for people to search and add entries to, and also display the data in a way that makes it easy to see when things don't line up. It seems they have people like Corey May and Jean Guesdon looking over the whole universe, but they're focused on big picture details more than the minutia of all the tiny details lining up, which is fine, but someone should be looking after the details.

As good as the wiki is, I really don't think they should be relying on a fan-created source at all as a reference, except as a way to gauge what the community thinks the story is actually saying at the moment. For example, if they see that the wiki says Alta´r and Ezio are related, they can react by correcting that assumption in a future story. But they should definitely be keeping their own centralized database of information instead of relying on their fans, who sometimes get things wrong and have less insight into the story because they don't work on it.

I think the Encyclopedia was a nice idea that turned into a big problem for them. I think the core reason it contained so many errors was because it wasn't planned that far in advance. It started out as some sort of art book and evolved into an encyclopedia last spring. The workload was so big and the timeline so tight that they hired five people outside their own studio to help with the writing, and I'm sure their deadline was last summer to give them enough lead time to have it printed. Even the best editor or team of editors couldn't possibly catch every mistake with things going so fast and furious and articles written by 7 or more people. On top of that, it does seem like whoever was reviewing the Encyclopedia didn't have the same kind of big picture view of the universe as a devoted fan who had experienced most of the universe from the outside. A lot of elements seem to have been taken from the novels, which we know don't always agree with the games, so that just caused more problems. Hopefully a year to revise the current information and adding far less new information to this year's version will result in a more polished, correct resource.

Steww-
08-08-2012, 06:44 PM
Thanks for the info.

I think the point about Abstergo playing dumb is an absolutely vital one. It really does imply they have something big in store, though that would have been a logical assumption anyway.
This just makes me even more excited for ACIII.

AntiChrist7
09-07-2012, 10:32 AM
Havent red through the whole topic: so ill pose my question here:


So daniel cross enters a hidden library in moscow. There Abstergo learns of Ezio auditore, and desmond (although they dont know a surname). But why does vidic then says in the Lost Archive "find out about this Ezio Auditore", since they discovered all his writings about 9 years earlier? Since daniel knows that the writings of the prophet is the most important piece, this information is quite important, and not something to forget easily

zerocooll21
09-07-2012, 01:39 PM
Interesting thoeries. I do have to lean toward Abstergo controlling both sides of the equation to a major extent - a very similar plot device that the prequel Star Wars movies used. In the end, this very well could be true and the idea of an orchestrated destiny is definitely plausible - whether by templar or TWCB device.

I was just thinking this as I was making my way down the thread.

Thanks Glyphs, good work!!

LoyalACFan
09-07-2012, 03:44 PM
Havent red through the whole topic: so ill pose my question here:


So daniel cross enters a hidden library in moscow. There Abstergo learns of Ezio auditore, and desmond (although they dont know a surname). But why does vidic then says in the Lost Archive "find out about this Ezio Auditore", since they discovered all his writings about 9 years earlier? Since daniel knows that the writings of the prophet is the most important piece, this information is quite important, and not something to forget easily

Are you sure they knew Ezio's name? I thought they just referred to him as "The Prophet". I haven't personally read The Chain yet though (just a synopsis) so I could be wrong.

Another explanation could be that Vidic didn't want to reveal the importance of Ezio to a low-ranking employee who didn't know the full situation. It sounded like the "find out about Ezio" line was directed at a coworker.

AntiChrist7
09-07-2012, 04:23 PM
Are you sure they knew Ezio's name? I thought they just referred to him as "The Prophet". I haven't personally read The Chain yet though (just a synopsis) so I could be wrong.

Another explanation could be that Vidic didn't want to reveal the importance of Ezio to a low-ranking employee who didn't know the full situation. It sounded like the "find out about Ezio" line was directed at a coworker.

well the guy that guards the library says to daniel "everything Ezio brought back from his travels". but yeah a full name isnt mentioned (although i would find it strange if it wasnt in his own writings) Still, that it would take 9 years to find a last name is a bit of unbelievable.

LoyalACFan
09-07-2012, 08:44 PM
well the guy that guards the library says to daniel "everything Ezio brought back from his travels". but yeah a full name isnt mentioned (although i would find it strange if it wasnt in his own writings) Still, that it would take 9 years to find a last name is a bit of unbelievable.

Not that unbelievable if the Rodrigo's ilk erased everything about him from the history books, which they apparently did, according to Shaun's database. Ezio Auditore vanished from history when he was 17, and nobody (besides people he killed and other Assassins) knew that he was the Mentor. There wouldn't be many primary resources around that mentioned him, so their only option was to find somebody who was descended from him. And even though Ezio spread his seed all over the Mediterranean, it would be insanely hard to find one of his descendants.

Assassin_M
09-08-2012, 05:40 AM
So im willing to buy this, but does anyone know how to get a soft copy of it ??

I`ll buy it anyway, but I`d rather have it right now than later..

AntiChrist7
09-09-2012, 07:53 PM
Not that unbelievable if the Rodrigo's ilk erased everything about him from the history books, which they apparently did, according to Shaun's database. Ezio Auditore vanished from history when he was 17, and nobody (besides people he killed and other Assassins) knew that he was the Mentor. There wouldn't be many primary resources around that mentioned him, so their only option was to find somebody who was descended from him. And even though Ezio spread his seed all over the Mediterranean, it would be insanely hard to find one of his descendants.

yeah ok that sounds likely. Still dont understand why daniel didnt brought anything back from the library. he killed the previous guard,so it wasnt like the assassins would never know someone has been there