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View Full Version : Fire, exploding fueltanks.....



Cokol_88IAP
04-06-2004, 05:55 AM
I hate these damagemodell discussions, but it is one of the most important factors for good online gaming (offline as well).

If I take a look on the current AEP version and what is expected for the future this topic is still hot.

Give me:
* Exploding fuel tanks
* aircraft burning easier (fighters were downed with cal .303 only
* AC losing their wings (esp. Bombers, He-111, DB-3...

These occasions are very rare in the current version.

May all AC, exept Il-2 easier to destroy, please!

You may look at <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/ </pre>

And again: WEAPON EFFICIENCY
May we find consense that:

single engined fighter has to abort fight after;
1x 30mm hit
5x 20mm hits
2s burst of 12,7mm
in the fuselage.

Cokol_88IAP
04-06-2004, 05:55 AM
I hate these damagemodell discussions, but it is one of the most important factors for good online gaming (offline as well).

If I take a look on the current AEP version and what is expected for the future this topic is still hot.

Give me:
* Exploding fuel tanks
* aircraft burning easier (fighters were downed with cal .303 only
* AC losing their wings (esp. Bombers, He-111, DB-3...

These occasions are very rare in the current version.

May all AC, exept Il-2 easier to destroy, please!

You may look at <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/ </pre>

And again: WEAPON EFFICIENCY
May we find consense that:

single engined fighter has to abort fight after;
1x 30mm hit
5x 20mm hits
2s burst of 12,7mm
in the fuselage.

JtD
04-06-2004, 06:10 AM
The IL-2 toughness should be reduced as well.

At the moment it's by far the toughest single engined plane in the game, so if you reduce others, reduce the IL-2 as well.

Enofinu
04-06-2004, 08:52 AM
agree u here Cokol

at least IL-2 should pop in fire when shot at wingroot from above http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cokol_88IAP
04-08-2004, 07:56 AM
lets hope weapons firepower generally will be increased.

And please:
No AP ammo for P-39 (It is hard enough to hit a silgle time.
Armor plate (P-39Q/P-63) On many photos, it is not visible. Field units must have removes it.
If this plate vanishes, P-39 would be a usable fighter, nowadays it is crap, du the poor sight.

gates123
04-08-2004, 11:38 AM
P-39 is by no means....crap. Sounds more like a pilot issue.

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/justin/1087/WWII/Images/Thumbs/TBf109AK.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

Chuck_Older
04-08-2004, 12:31 PM
The wings get shot off of planes all the time in my copy of FB

I find CR.42s blow up easily when you hit them with 6 .50s

*****************************
Punk Rockers in the UK, they won't notice anyway. They're all too busy fighting for a good place under the lighting~ Clash

dizeee
04-08-2004, 01:03 PM
lol its excatly what i dont want, and what i think was changed for the worse, in some recent fb patch. planes regulary lost their wings or simply exploded from the slightest burst. i remember a fin campaign i played. it was brewster vs rate most of teh time, and 9 out of 10 planes i downed lost either their wing or blew up instantly. pure arcade feeling.
aep gave brought back the feeling that im actually shooting a solid object, instead of some... uhm ..well maybe a firecracker with wings.

Cokol_88IAP
04-13-2004, 10:44 AM
Is it possible to enlight the fueltank in the current version of FB?

04-14-2004, 01:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cokol_88IAP:
Is it possible to enlight the fueltank in the current version of FB?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, on some aircraft. Fires can start in internal fuel tanks and the aircraft usually falls apart or explodes shortly afterwards.

External drop tanks can only be set on fire in a few aircraft I know the P-47's drop tank can catch fire.... not sure about others.

Sundowner.pl
04-14-2004, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cosmokart:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cokol_88IAP:
Is it possible to enlight the fueltank in the current version of FB?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, on some aircraft. Fires can start in internal fuel tanks and the aircraft usually falls apart or explodes shortly afterwards.

External drop tanks can only be set on fire in a few aircraft I know the P-47's drop tank can catch fire.... not sure about others.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actualy, in this game you CAN'T hit the drop tanks or bombs that are carried by planes. They are transparent to all bullets. What you have seen is propably a wing fuel tank on fire, not the drop tank.

I have somewhere tracks when I was testing this: P-38 against Fw-190A4 drop tanks, and Bf-109K4 against P-51D drop tanks and every single .50", 20mm and 30mm bullet have flew thrue the tank and fly away.

I call it a "virtual drop tank" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(these tracks are now propably known to Oleg team)

http://miasto.interia.pl/fm/sundowner/SundownerSig.jpg
So... you have found a gramar or spelling mistake in my post ?
Let's see how you write in Polish language http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bobsqueek
04-14-2004, 03:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cokol_88IAP:
I hate these damagemodell discussions, but it is one of the most important factors for good online gaming (offline as well).

If I take a look on the current AEP version and what is expected for the future this topic is still hot.

Give me:
* Exploding fuel tanks
* aircraft burning easier (fighters were downed with cal .303 only
* AC losing their wings (esp. Bombers, He-111, DB-3...

These occasions are very rare in the current version.

May all AC, exept Il-2 easier to destroy, please!

You may look at <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/ </pre>

And again: WEAPON EFFICIENCY
May we find consense that:

single engined fighter has to abort fight after;
1x 30mm hit
5x 20mm hits
2s burst of 12,7mm
in the fuselage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and wheres the historical information for this?

oleg dont just make it up you know http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Click the link for my skins
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Bobsqueek-template.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=bobs&comefrom=top5&ts=1076359444)
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

Cokol_88IAP
04-14-2004, 03:44 PM
I had just looked at some movieclips of Hptm. Phillip and some USAAF clips, where fuel tanks always caught fire under concentrated MG fire.

04-14-2004, 11:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sundowner.pl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cosmokart:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cokol_88IAP:
Is it possible to enlight the fueltank in the current version of FB?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, on some aircraft. Fires can start in internal fuel tanks and the aircraft usually falls apart or explodes shortly afterwards.

External drop tanks can only be set on fire in a few aircraft I know the P-47's drop tank can catch fire.... not sure about others.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actualy, in this game you CAN'T hit the drop tanks or bombs that are carried by planes. They are transparent to all bullets. What you have seen is propably a wing fuel tank on fire, not the drop tank.

I have somewhere tracks when I was testing this: P-38 against Fw-190A4 drop tanks, and Bf-109K4 against P-51D drop tanks and every single .50", 20mm and 30mm bullet have flew thrue the tank and fly away.

I call it a "virtual drop tank" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(these tracks are now propably known to Oleg team)

http://miasto.interia.pl/fm/sundowner/SundownerSig.jpg
So... you have found a gramar or spelling mistake in my post ?
Let's see how you write in Polish language http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong. The P-47 is a special case. You must have assumed the P-47's drop tank is like other aircraft without actually testing it.

Shoot a P-47 droptank. It will catch on fire.

Sundowner.pl
04-15-2004, 03:05 AM
hmm... ok, I will test it when I get back home.

For now, here you got a track with Bf-109K4 against P-51D drop tank (it should be the same 75 gal. tank that Thud use):
http://miasto.interia.pl/fm/sundowner/bulletproof_fueltank2.ntrk

http://miasto.interia.pl/fm/sundowner/SundownerSig.jpg
So... you have found a gramar or spelling mistake in my post ?
Let's see how you write in Polish language http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jtasker
04-15-2004, 03:16 AM
"And again: WEAPON EFFICIENCY
May we find consense that:

single engined fighter has to abort fight after;
1x 30mm hit
5x 20mm hits
2s burst of 12,7mm
in the fuselage."

Umm NO! This is a GIANT step backwards from what we have now. Its WHERE you hit and WHAT you hit that makes a difference. A single .30 caliber into the cooling system may easily bring down a fighter, while a couple hundred of the same hits in the wrong places will NOT.

Even the 30mm Mk 108 was not a sure single hit killer. You may not know but the 108 was designed to kill using rapidly expanding gases rather than fragmentation. It was fused to detonate inside the target. If you hit a trailing edge, you will detonate it inside a very small volume area, causing only local damage. Put one INSIDE the fuselage and you will have better results.

NOTHING should be automatic..thats a simple point system and we don't ever want to go back to that..

That being said, the damage model is overly friendly to many aircraft. But planes didn't often blow up and disintegrate unless a secondary of the ammo or fuel occurred. In here people don't bail.. there is no need until you become totally unflyable. In real life pilots flew to live, and bailed when nneeded much earlier than we ever would

MatuDa
04-15-2004, 04:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Even the 30mm Mk 108 was not a sure single hit killer. You may not know but the 108 was designed to kill using rapidly expanding gases rather than fragmentation. It was fused to detonate inside the target. If you hit a trailing edge, you will detonate it inside a very small volume area, causing only local damage. Put one INSIDE the fuselage and you will have better results.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since FB doesn't model pressure maybe it SHOULD make more fragments? Yesterday I was practising offline G-6/AS+mk108 against 4 ace p63 and usually it seemed to take around 4 hits from the mighty 108 to convince the pilot to eject.. once it took 6 hits and one was exactly between engine and pilot.. he still flew on http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif I know it was a tough plane but.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

VW-IceFire
04-15-2004, 08:20 AM
I think the middle ground is where AEP should be taking us. I agree that ripping the wing off of every fighter that you shoot at is a bit rediculous...regardless of the weapon. Different damage for different situations...but the present way that things work means that over 30 rounds of 20mm cannon ammo can be expended on a single plane with no percievable results (crashing, smoke, significant fuel leak, engine failure, structural failure, etc.). on the other hand you can easily down the same plane with a short 1 second burst with the same 20mm cannon and you achieve the kill very quickly. Its just the extremes that need to be tightened up...

A P-47 shouldn't have to pour an entire ammo belt into a single fighter to down it...nor should it take a one second burst to down every fighter that it shoots at. Everything in moderation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Sundowner.pl
04-15-2004, 10:28 AM
I'm back at home... and I have seen everything now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

I took Bf-109G14 against P-47D27 with a DropTank - again I wanted to fire only at Droptank with MGs and Mk-108 at the same time.

I did that... and now the fun part: P-47 have droped his tank, said that I shot him... and the AI pilot have bailed Out... my engine had been damaged, but there was no sight of damage on the Thud http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

http://miasto.interia.pl/fm/sundowner/bulletproof_fueltank3.ntrk

WTF?

oh yea, there is no flames on Droptank, no fuel leek, no damage... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

http://miasto.interia.pl/fm/sundowner/SundownerSig.jpg
So... you have found a gramar or spelling mistake in my post ?
Let's see how you write in Polish language http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

rob889239
04-15-2004, 04:58 PM
I have a track of P-47 drop tank going up but can't post it anyone willing to host?

Sundowner.pl
04-15-2004, 07:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rob889239:
I have a track of P-47 drop tank going up but can't post it anyone willing to host?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If it's not over 300kB you can send it to me: Sundowner@poczta.fm

But remember that I live in GMT+1h time zone http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Damn... it's 3:05 AM... I should sleep right now !

http://miasto.interia.pl/fm/sundowner/SundownerSig.jpg
So... you have found a gramar or spelling mistake in my post ?
Let's see how you write in Polish language http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

rob889239
04-16-2004, 06:45 AM
Sundowner tried a couple of times but failed mail