PDA

View Full Version : Maddox: Sitting on a Goldmine. Thoughts on Add-On News.



XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:22 AM
While I'm an avid reader of these forums, I usually remain pretty quiet. At the moment, though, I feel the need to vent a little, so bear with me (please keep flames in check):

The thing I don't like about this latest announcement is that a wealth of free add-ons was one of the chief selling points of FB for me, and I'm sure, many others.

If I recall correctly, it was even listed officially in all of the press as one of FB's key features.

So, while I'm pleased with the news that we'll finally be getting new planes, I can't help but be disappointed that after years of seeing development updates showcasing the beautiful work members of the community have done for free (with the intention of having their work released to the community at no charge), and after seeing what seems like hundreds of plane and cockpit models at places like il2center (many of them having been completed for some time now), that we're only going to be getting three of them.

I bought the original IL2 because free add-on planes and patches were virtually promised to the community -- and after seeing the track record with the initial updates I had no reason to question this "promise".

Then came the news that there would be no more patches for the original game; that if you wanted to get the new content and fixes previously promised, you'd have to shell out the money for a whole new game. And while this bothered me, I thought, "hey, it's not so bad having to fork over a little extra cash for a piece of software this good".

But low and behold, when FB came out it was full of bugs and inaccuracies, and we had to wait almost a year for the first semblance of a patch. But even the patch neglected many problems that have been in the game since the original, while simultaneously introducing many more. My hopes of enjoying a sim that was relatively focused in scope but with a rock-solid FM and feature set were completely dashed at around this time.

"At least I'll finally be getting my hands on all of that user made content," I thought to myself. I mean, one only has to take a glance at the archives of the dev. updates to see the insane amount of work done and in the can, just waiting to be unleashed. How could any one of us not be excited about it all? Maybe some of the quality issues that have been left unresolved will be somewhat offset by the sheer quantity of new planes set to be released.

That's what I used to think, anyway.

This latest announcement was a severe blow to my hopes in that regard. And for the first time since I bought the original game I think I've lost faith in my investment paying off the way I always knew it would.



--Edit--
corrected some typos

Message Edited on 09/15/0309:27AM by AnalFissure

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:22 AM
While I'm an avid reader of these forums, I usually remain pretty quiet. At the moment, though, I feel the need to vent a little, so bear with me (please keep flames in check):

The thing I don't like about this latest announcement is that a wealth of free add-ons was one of the chief selling points of FB for me, and I'm sure, many others.

If I recall correctly, it was even listed officially in all of the press as one of FB's key features.

So, while I'm pleased with the news that we'll finally be getting new planes, I can't help but be disappointed that after years of seeing development updates showcasing the beautiful work members of the community have done for free (with the intention of having their work released to the community at no charge), and after seeing what seems like hundreds of plane and cockpit models at places like il2center (many of them having been completed for some time now), that we're only going to be getting three of them.

I bought the original IL2 because free add-on planes and patches were virtually promised to the community -- and after seeing the track record with the initial updates I had no reason to question this "promise".

Then came the news that there would be no more patches for the original game; that if you wanted to get the new content and fixes previously promised, you'd have to shell out the money for a whole new game. And while this bothered me, I thought, "hey, it's not so bad having to fork over a little extra cash for a piece of software this good".

But low and behold, when FB came out it was full of bugs and inaccuracies, and we had to wait almost a year for the first semblance of a patch. But even the patch neglected many problems that have been in the game since the original, while simultaneously introducing many more. My hopes of enjoying a sim that was relatively focused in scope but with a rock-solid FM and feature set were completely dashed at around this time.

"At least I'll finally be getting my hands on all of that user made content," I thought to myself. I mean, one only has to take a glance at the archives of the dev. updates to see the insane amount of work done and in the can, just waiting to be unleashed. How could any one of us not be excited about it all? Maybe some of the quality issues that have been left unresolved will be somewhat offset by the sheer quantity of new planes set to be released.

That's what I used to think, anyway.

This latest announcement was a severe blow to my hopes in that regard. And for the first time since I bought the original game I think I've lost faith in my investment paying off the way I always knew it would.



--Edit--
corrected some typos

Message Edited on 09/15/0309:27AM by AnalFissure

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:28 AM
the next group will be free ...........40 bucks for 100's of hrs of entertainment.........iv got my money out of it and wont mind a little more down the road.....my opinion

U.S. infantry 84-91

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:41 AM
As debated in earlier threads, if all the modelers work are put in a pay add-on, and the modelers are getting payed in any way... I'll buy the add-ons anytime!

If UBI and Maddox Games are profiting by other's work, then they should pay for it.

No other game have given me such value as Il-2 (well maybe EAW)

<center>http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19-Orheim-IDCard-sm.gif

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)



http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19%20VS%20banner%20B.jpg (http://www.f19vs.tk)

</center>


Message Edited on 09/15/0311:43AM by F19_Orheim

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:43 AM
All those wonderful skins that people worked on for free is a good point. However, if you want to make all those planes flyable, someone has to punch the code in. Let's say they do this. How long will the game take to load? What liquid cooled mainframe should we run it on? I too bought this game in hopes of an expanded selection of flyable planes and technical patches. What I should have done was wait for the next IL-2 which will be announced on October 5th. Never buy a promise! But of course, most here will stand in line to buy the next version of this buggy, unrealistically modeled mess. Why? Because from all sources I've heard from, it is the most visually stunning WWII flight simulation game on the market today while being less of a resource hog than Cousin Billy's Combat Flight Simulator 3.0

As long as we keep whining for this eye candy and that eye candy and pine away for planes that never or rarely flew at the Eastern Front; we can look forward to going through this mess again and again. Why did I write this? These idiots won't stop this madness!


Luckyboy = senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:54 AM
This is ridiculous. You bought Il-2 because you were promised free add-ons? Get outta here! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

cheers/slush

http://dk.groups.yahoo.com/group/aktivitetsdage/files/Eurotrolls.gif

You can't handle the truth!
Col. Jessep

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 01:23 PM
Oh purlease.

This awesome product cost less than Super Monkey Ball on the Gamecube.

Get some perspective.

I'd pay $40 for the free addon as listed.

Well, maybe if it had a Spitfire /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SSS

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 01:56 PM
...and a Lancaster.

The free planes in the patches for the the original IL2 were a gift. A nice one. Problem is, they kind of spoiled us.

AS for FB, I'll be happy to pay. A few new maps, new objects, A SPITFIRE!!!, I wouldn't mind paying for that. Just make it good, and make it quick.

In the end, it works out to pennies an hour for excellent interactive entertainment. Even cheaper than beer!



"Official Lancaster Whiner"

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 02:17 PM
What a bunch of spoiled babies.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 02:31 PM
Yup, give me a few new maps and a few new planes and I would gladly fork it out.

I would almost bet that a spit will be included......

See you in the fence.....

Asus P4B533 i845E
P4 2.4
Asus GF4 Ti 4200 128MB (45.23)
1 GIG DDR RAM (PC 2100)
SB Audigy
MSFF2
XP Home

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 02:35 PM
(_x_)

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 02:57 PM
This issue have already been raised here in forum. After reading one thread on this topic, I actually gave it a tought. Here's what I think (if anyone cares).

A friend of mine is a journalist working in computer magazine here in Serbia. He mostly writes game reviews while flight simulations are his soft spot. As you might suspect, he knows a lot about gaming industry. According to him, flight simulations are the least profitable of all games. Development is long, the public is relatively small and VERY demanding i.e. profits are small. So, if we want our dear Oleg to continue his work, we should let him decide on what's the best for him (read: the best for us as well). I mean, honestly, building a 3D model is not a big deal for some guys here, although the cocpit is considerably tougher. OTOH, Oleg & Co. have to incorporate this into the game, create appropriate FM model which is definitely not an easy task. As a result, we get planes we want. The cost is not high but the enjoyment is far better compared to those funny FS 2002 add-ons.

Best,
Kursula

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:06 PM
I'd pay $40 for a Spitfire! If the next addition to the IL-2 franchise is anything closely resembling North Africa or the Mediterranean, I'm sold, no question about it. I bought FB for the 100+ planes, new scenery and new gameplay elements, which has given me possibly hundreds of hours of enjoyment.

---------------------------------------
http://www.swafineart.com/images/30.4.02/spitfire.jpg


I'm still a 109 fan but you've gotta love the Spitfire!

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:13 PM
Consider this....... If the modelers are willing to do the work for free then it is thier decicsion. I am sure they do it not so much for money but to have thier creation on a top notch product. That satisfaction is part of thier reward I am sure. It takes more time to code all these planes correctly than to model them and Oleg &1C has to eat. Do you think all they should get paid for is the initial work on the sim even after sales have trailed off? I am looking forward to the free addon and would gladly pay for as many add ons afterwards as 1C will put out as long as they are to the same standard...not like some of those abacus add ons for CFS where the scenery was not as good and the models were not as good. This is the only sim of it's quality that I know of and it never ceases to amaze me how spoiled we have became as a community. Before IL2 the concept of quality add ons set to the ORIGINAL sim's standards was unheard of. Now folks want to act like it is a common occurance and Oleg &1C are playing vcatch up....... smell the coffee gents...sure we have issues but..is there a better sim with better potential....? I dont think so. You say OM is sitting on a goldmine...do you expect him to reap the rewards of that goldmine by giving it away? Do you really think that people will continue to buy FB based on the prospect of free add ons? I dont..... I think they will continue to buy FB if they know they can expand it...paid or not..... Id be curious to know what the slaes of FB are at and how much they have trailed off since the original release. For OM to make money the paid add on is the only way TO go.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:22 PM
So much for free add-ons....

*Sigh*

<center><img src=http:// http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/pics/cb.jpg> (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/pics/cb.jpg></a></div></center>)</div></center></a>

fluke39
09-15-2003, 03:31 PM
However much i would like to have every add-on to be given away free - bearcat is 100% right

i would wager sales of FB have never even scratched the surface of games like quake or even vice city and do they continue to give stuff that requires hours,nay months of work for free? no.

i would be happy to see major add-ons sold and the occasional freebie plane or two chucked in every now or then for good customer relations

i was never under the impression we were going to get loads of free stuff given to us after buying FB - in fact the only thing i ever expected was a patch or two to fix bugs which become apparent in time - such as these things do- and even then i didn't think it was owed to us.

we wouldn't be happy campers if Maddox spent all their time working on free add-ons just to end up going out of business would we?

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>


Message Edited on 09/15/0302:35PM by fluke39

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:50 PM
Seriously, some of you need to chill out. A lot.

Free.

Content.

Free! Free maps! Free planes!

Understandably some peoples favorite aircraft won't make it in.

If everyones favorite was included, there'd be nothing for the pay addon later.

There need to be some aces in the hole to generate sales of the addon later.

As was mentioned above, flight sims aren't exactly the hot ticket item that flies off the shelves and puts publishers in the black. Oleg could just as well have taken his shiny codebase and made a space shoot 'em up game with no exhaustive and expensive research, higher sales, and no fanatical whingers on his case all day screaming like five year olds [but demanding to be taken oh-so-seriously].

This is not a patch. This is not about fixing things that are broken with the game. This is about giving a free ride to people who have, largely, done nothing but given Oleg a hard time. I was as ticked off as the rest of you at some of the bizarre bugs and odd behaviour in V1.0, but it's mostly fixed now, user campaigns and 3d party programs are starting to come in, and frankly if you can't find something good to do in FB now as opposed to when it came out, you should sell your copy to someone who can.

I'm sure that you would all be perfectly welcome to the work that modellers have put into their creations - and it's great work, all of it. But none of it flies, shoots, or explodes without Maddox coding the relevant portions into the game. Hands up who wants to forgo flying or shooting at any of this content, and would rather just look at the models in 3dsmax and a 2d skin in photoshop? Anyone? Just because the modellers and skinners are prepared to work for free doesn't mean Maddox have to.

Along with the nice and appreciative comments about the free addon there have been foot stamping temper tantrums .. all I can say is that I hope Oleg treats those posters to all the attention they deserve when they next ask him for something.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/worker_parasite.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:20 PM
All these talks about the free 3d models being used in the pay addons, dont you think its between ubi and the author's concent.

I hope it will be more than just planes added on.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:19 PM
Some of you are a bit quick with the accusations of "spoiled gamer".

I am fully aware what it takes to go into a sim like this, and I also know that the flight sim genre itself is not the most profitable business in the world. I simply feel a bit frustrated, confused, and even a little cheated by these last few years and the constant promise of free add-ons waiting in the wings.

Regardless, it's obvious that my feelings on the matter are not shared by the majority of the posters on this board. And you know what? That's perfectly fine.

Just felt like expressing myself, is all.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:39 PM
When the novice first checks out the IL-2 site; they see all this updates on what they are going to add to the game. The IL-2 site does not make it clear that you are going to have to pay for these add ones and that you may not ever get some of these planes or they may not be flyable. I think Mr. Fissure falls into this category and Scooby-Dooby-UBISoft could easily add a disclaimer that would clear up the whole issue before it ever came up. The dirty secret is, this would hurt already declining sales of IL-2 Forgotten Patches!

However, Fissure dude, you've had the issue explained so please don't take it too hard when I ask you to dry up on the subject! You don't work for free and we both made the same mistake by assuming certain things when we glanced over this web site. So in the final analysis, there is plenty enough blame here to play the blame game forever. This finger pointing gets nothing done. I'm not a rich man. When I stop and clearly examine the issues, I conclude that all new planes, maps etc. should be paid for and bugs should be fixed on the house!


Luckyboy = senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11

Tully__
09-15-2003, 09:45 PM
March - July for the first patch hardly counts as a full year.

The soon to be released add-on isn't the only one scheduled last time I saw anything official.

<center> ================================================== ========================= </center>

<center> <img src=http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/Corsair.jpg> </center>

<center> The "under performing planes" thread (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=35;t=007540) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </center>
<center> Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm) </center>
<center><font size="-2" color="#88aadd">IL2 Forums Moderator</font></center>


Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:53 PM
"and we had to wait almost a year for the first semblance of a patch"

The game was released in march (april over here) and the 1.1b patch was out in August. That's not even half a year. Aren't you exaggerating a bit?

http://www.gtacenter.com/sig/sig.php (http://lomac.gtacenter.com)
IRC chat (irc://www.gamesnet.net/lockon)

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:12 PM
AnalFissure wrote:
I simply feel a bit frustrated, confused, and
- even a little cheated by these last few years and
- the constant promise of free add-ons waiting in the
- wings.
-

Few years? Man, time really flies when your having fun. I didnt realize il2 had been out that long

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:15 PM
My bad. This summer has been an especially long one for me personally, and I could have sworn FB was out earlier than march. It certainly felt like it. My apologies.

Still, march-august as you say is exactly 6 months, or half a year. I maintain that's still a long time to wait when you buy the game the day it comes out and notice many bugs your first time playing out of the box. (It also doesn't help that the game is so damn good in most every other respect.)

But yes, none of that is an excuse to exaggerate as I did in my original post. Sorry again for that.

---

Lucky:

I think you hit the nail on the head.

I'll shut up now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:21 PM
They'll drip feed us new stuff whilst preparing the hallowed "new" sim. No need for anyone to get their knickers in a twist, or even their panties in their teeth.


Lixma,

Blitzpig.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:22 PM
"Few years? Man, time really flies when your having fun. I didnt realize il2 had been out that long"

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. The first demo for the original game was released late 2001 if I recall correctly.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:52 PM
I would be more than willing to pay the messly 40 bucks and willing to pay 80 - I have gotten my 40 bucks out of this game many times.

I unserstand the frustration - but at the same time - you can;t expect the crew to spend 12hour a day working on IL2 FB patch fixes and free planes that everyone is whinning about - If they did this - we would never see an addon - only patches.

Besides - How many of the ones whinning actually bought the game - I know that of the several post - I have seen at least 10 that proclaimed to have a warez version.

If you didn't buy the game - then stay out of the forums - you have no place here - nor are you wanted here and your input means nothing to anyone here.

That is the reason we are paying higher prices for programs today!! And the reason I have to keep my cd's close at hand, scratches and all, so I can change them out when I go to a different game.

Sorry If I got off topic here -

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:55 PM
Hmm, new ANAL user. That is a real high post count for someone that has been around for two years. Who are you really? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Come on, we won't get mad at ya! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center>
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/1asig3.gif

http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat/
JOIN OUR SQUAD TODAY!
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/1banner.gif

http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/il2homepage.html

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:13 AM
MackZ wrote:
- I'd pay $40 for a Spitfire! If the next addition to
- the IL-2 franchise is anything closely resembling
- North Africa or the Mediterranean, I'm sold, no
- question about it...


$40 for a Spitfire and North Africa or the Mediterranean????!!!!!!!

I´d give $80.00 for that!...Ok, Ok $100 is my last offer.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:18 AM
$105.25! Top that!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 06:14 AM
"Hmm, new ANAL user. That is a real high post count for someone that has been around for two years."

---


As I said, I regularly read the forums, I just don't post that often.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:26 AM
You guys have to much money to spend. Bidding should be going down, not up. Lol

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:15 PM
AnalFissure wrote:
- "Hmm, new ANAL user. That is a real high post count
- for someone that has been around for two years."
-
----
-
-
- As I said, I regularly read the forums, I just don't
- post that often.

Hmm, but all of the sudden in the past two days you decided to stop lurking and now have over 10 post. BS. We
know that you are a regular here and are just 'trying' to hide behind a new ANAL user name. Come out of the closet.





Message Edited on 09/16/0306:15AM by UCLANUPE

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 04:33 PM
trying to scrape together money for addon, while arguing with the wife thats its vital to my health to have it, hope it dosnt come out b4 i get enough money

I dont have a problem with paying 4 a topclass addon, the only problem i have is IF the people who do the 3D modeling thought it was gonna be free, if they knew it was gonna be a pay from day dot then thats fine with me, there is at least one guy spending way to much time and effort not to get some money from ubisoft for his 3dmodels

Konigwolf