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Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 10:49 AM
Hi
There are no instructions on how to get this frustating program to work. Where are the install instructions, where are the instructions for me to get the program to work in the game. Do i have to keep pressing a key, kinda of defeats the object if i have to0. Where do I install shoot, what directory, i pressume Il2fb, but in what format, does it have a folder of its own or does it have to be in the main folder of fb?

The documentation on the shoot site is a mess, I do not care the make up of the program, i just want it to work. At least put install instructions in the zip file or stick it on teh website so we can get access to it. A promising utility but poor presented.

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 10:49 AM
Hi
There are no instructions on how to get this frustating program to work. Where are the install instructions, where are the instructions for me to get the program to work in the game. Do i have to keep pressing a key, kinda of defeats the object if i have to0. Where do I install shoot, what directory, i pressume Il2fb, but in what format, does it have a folder of its own or does it have to be in the main folder of fb?

The documentation on the shoot site is a mess, I do not care the make up of the program, i just want it to work. At least put install instructions in the zip file or stick it on teh website so we can get access to it. A promising utility but poor presented.

weasel75
09-11-2004, 11:02 AM
Last time I checked it worked like a charme (6 months ago, so maybe something changed).
No need for instruction, but I guess there would be some readme.txt ....

Just install it anywhere.
Its not designed for use with any game in particular. All it does, is emulating keypresses.
Load a profile after starting the program. You should see a list with available commands (you can add your own, you can train difficult words, etc).

PTT (PushToTalk) is actually a nice way to use the program, just assign a button on your joystick. Press and hold that button, then speak your command, release the button. If Shoot! was monitoring your voice all the time it would also get a lot of input from wingman, tower, etc... and that could cause dramatic actions ..

PTT is the way all VoiceComms should be used (when flying in a squad).

S! and Good luck - W75

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 11:14 AM
hi

thanks for the reply but what commands do i have to speak

Do I have say views fly by, or wingman flight 1 attack my target? If I do then whats the point of having this program if i have to remember all this. I can just press of few numbers and away I go. I just cannot get it to work at all.

The voice training was ok, the mic works. but the software does not.

weasel75
09-11-2004, 11:36 AM
The main-reason is, that you dont need to take your hands off your joystick (and throttle).

Normally the phrases to trigger action are directly related to that action. Besides that, you should be able to see the "trigger"-words in Shoot!.
Words/phrases can be trained, but unless you are speaking a different language than english (or you have strong accent), the voice-recognition should work out of the box.

So remembering what triggers an action should be easy, since the action corresponds to the action:
"Wingman attack bombers"
"Flight attack fighters"
"Wingman cover me"
etc... that is not to hard, isn't it?

However, for crucial things like "drop bombs" or "fire rockets" I would never use it, same for gear and flaps (to much risk of deploying in a bad moment).... that are things which should be mapped directly to the HOTAS (hands on throttle and stick).

Dizz_310th
09-11-2004, 11:43 AM
Sofiyah,
I certainly understand your frustration about the intructions...they could be better.

Most of the commands in the FB profile seemed very logical to me and were easy to remember. Others not so much, so I simply changed those commands to something that made sense to me. Use Notepad to make the changes (back up your profile first) and make sure the file retains its .xml extension after you save.

http://www.wellspringmarketing.biz/310th/dizzsig1.gif

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 12:04 PM
Hi

I did that as you weasel75, but it did not work at all. I said wingman cover me but it refuses to recognise the voice. Also I pressed f10 to enable it and foud that shoot does not recognised the key it set for its self. Yes on paper it sounds easy, that is what I thought early on, but now i am totally lost.

I will give it one more go and concentriate on my deflection shooting training if it does not and get rid of the program.

GvSAP_Wingnut
09-11-2004, 12:10 PM
You can make the commands whatever you want them to be.

MS Speech is what is used for voice recognition, so you have to train your voice with that.

Sorry, but this isn't a works right out of the box type program. It takes time to train your computer to recogize your voice and set up the command files. The PTT toggle options are confusing at best... you just have to take the time to figure it out and experiment with settings. I've found that I had to go back and train MS on specific words that it had a hard time understanding.

Once it gets running right, though, it's great. Adds another dimension to offline play, IMHO. Considering that it's free, it's worth the time it takes to configure it correctly. I don't have it installed on my new computer yet, but I'll look for my xml file on the other and post it here if needed.

Also, did you download and install the other required files? MS .NET framework (or whatever the H it's called) and the MS speech pack (or whatever the H it's called) are needed.

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 12:20 PM
Hi

Don't people ever read, ur right it does not work out of the box its rubbish. Yest I have trained my voice duh. Yes I have installed the software you need. Especially the one for MSN messenger duh. It just does not work plain and simple. Its not not not working. For god's sake it dos not recognise the default key it set its self. In my view this program is totally useless.

weasel75
09-11-2004, 12:39 PM
Software for MSN Messenger??
AFAIK there is some .NET-software needed, but IIRC that is the Microsoft Speech-recognition, not Messenger-stuff.. anyway, maybe its included (M$ tends to bundle every crappy little program they release)

On my computer Shoot! works, just installed latest version.
Step by step:
- start the shoot.exe
- from "File"-menu, select "Open"
- select "il2.xml" from "profiles"-directory

At this point I see a list of available commands. Top-command on my list: "ANYONE help me". By clicking it with the mouse, the right side is changing to: "Phrase: help me", "Keys: Tab 7"

So this indicates, that a spoken "help me" will cause Shoot! to simulate a "TAB" and a "7" keypress.

By selecting the "Push To Talk"-tab in Shoot! I can see some more options. In the configuration I am using here, F10 toggles the communication (indicated by the little icon in the lower right), while F12 disables the microphone temporarely.

So if your microphon is off (red crosses over icon in lower right), F10 will turn it on.
When mic is ON, F12 will disable it as long as F12 is pressed. Actually, that is inverted PTT http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
(I am not sure wether this is default or not (I tend to change configs all the time), but it can be changed in the "il2.xml"-file (just change "disable" to "enable" for F12)

Now just say "help me", and Shoot! should display what it recognized in the status-bar at the lower end of the Shoot!-window. If you dont see "Recognized: ANYONE help me", then something went wrong (to loud, to quiet, mic not enabled?).

Hope To Help - just stay calm and focused ...

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 02:21 PM
hi

I have microsft soft frame.net 1.1 installed.

The instructions you gave is what I had already done. All i get is the program does not work and shoot comes up with the error key command not recognised. Incidently I load the il2 profile that was in the shoot program. It just refuses to work.

best wishes

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 02:23 PM
Hi

The exact message I get is "key is unknow in key lay out". Also the mic is enabled in the shoot program. I have extensively voice trained the program as well.

best wishes

weasel75
09-11-2004, 03:27 PM
Training is done just once, and you actually dont train Shoot!, but the M$ Voice-Recognition.

When you get the error you described, than actually the Shoot!-program DID recognized something and tried it to send some keypresses to the active program, which was Shoot! itself (according to the error-msg). So it works!
Now open notepad and use Shoot! running in background ... when you speak commandos ("gear", "map", etc) you should see some characters magically appear, just like entered by ghosts http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Thats it, thats all what Shoot! is doing.

(To be sure, put notepad in the upper-left corner of your monitor, so you can see the lower half of Shoot! But keep Notepad active!)


Anyway, if it does not work ... FB can be played successfully without Shoot! too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
And online you rarely have to manage AI-radio-comms anyway, so there it is really not needed, use TeamSpeak then to talk to your squadron.

Enjoy!

PS: Once you got it running, make a backup of il2.xml and start to edit it to your needs .. use the plain-text phrases you can remember most easily.

weasel75
09-11-2004, 03:32 PM
Just forgot .. once you made yourself a nice profile, you can auto-load it when you add the parameter " profiles/il2.xml" to the command-line of the "shoot.exe" (shortcut on desktop).

GvSAP_Wingnut
09-11-2004, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sofiyah:
Hi

Don't people ever read, ur right it does not work out of the box its rubbish. Yest I have trained my voice duh. Yes I have installed the software you need. Especially the one for MSN messenger duh. It just does not work plain and simple. Its not not not working. For god's sake it dos not recognise the default key it set its self. In my view this program is totally useless.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You asked for help, tried to. If you're gonna be an a$$ about it, then don't ask.

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 03:33 PM
GvSAP_Wingnut

I got mad because you assumed i did not installed the corect componets and did not bother reading what i said.

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 03:33 PM
GvSAP_Wingnut

I got mad because you assumed i did not installed the corect componets and did not bother reading what i said.

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 03:33 PM
GvSAP_Wingnut

I got mad because you assumed i did not installed the corect componets and did not bother reading what i said.

AlexDavies
09-11-2004, 03:41 PM
who could be so silly to write three identical posts?! ha!

http://www.jsutergraphix.com/portfolio%20art/P-47.jpg

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 03:42 PM
GvSAP_Wingnut

Try reading people's post before replying and offer some constructive help bofore making assumptions.

I have installed the speech software from MS thats how I trained the software, ms frame.net 1.1 is already installed, I did what the preveious person said, but before he offered his kind help.

I went through the program instructions again based on weeseal advice. It recognise "help me" after a delay off 4 seconds, then I used the commaned "attack fighters, the software will move to "diamond" command or, if i use gear down it will dump to "help me" command. The list goes on.

Do i have to spend literally 5 hours doing voice training to get this to work? I have little time, so that is out of the question. I guess I have to dump it and move on. I cannot see how this is a great little bit of software, it just does not work.

thanks anyway.

weasel75
09-11-2004, 03:47 PM
Stay calm .. walk thrue it step by step, if it does not work, some might help, just post here where you stuck. Till someone answers you can fly a nice round around the local airport to get used to more aircrafts (in case you just started flying FB).

And as I wrote you above, your program works, you where just to eager to recognize http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
And no, normally you dont need to train every single word.

Cheers - W75

Sofiyah
09-11-2004, 09:13 PM
Hi

sorry about the treble post but the funciton that ubi had screwed up and I ended up by default posting 3x. As for the shoot program. I am not rushing into it, it just does not work. Thats all I can say. I do not see the point in wasting hours on a program that does nto work. I did the voice training, did all that weasel stated even before he gave the advice. I figure that much out. I keep getting in valid errors. It is not recognising my voice, totally getting the wrong words, like it mix flak for gear, or aircraft for fighters. I have done extenisve voice training, the one that came in the program and I have done aeop (spelling) bill gateas, fall of the house of usher, wall of the worlds, summer etc. that went ok, but the program refues to work.

thats all i can say.

best wishes
thanks for the replies

GvSAP_Wingnut
09-11-2004, 11:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sofiyah:
GvSAP_Wingnut

Try reading people's post before replying and offer some constructive help bofore making assumptions.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope you can get it to work.

I did not make any assumptions, read my post and you'll see I asked if you had installed .NET framework, not assumed. You didn't say you had in any of your posts, in fact it appeared you didn't have the installation instructions for Shoot. Lot of people are having problems with the new ATI Control Panel, because it requires .NET framework and they haven't installed it.
Even offered to post my xml file... that's not constructive?

My last post on the matter - again, hope you get it to work.

antifreeze
09-12-2004, 06:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
There are no instructions on how to get this frustating program to work. Where are the install instructions, where are the instructions for me to get the program to work in the game. Do i have to keep pressing a key, kinda of defeats the object if i have to0. Where do I install shoot, what directory, i pressume Il2fb, but in what format, does it have a folder of its own or does it have to be in the main folder of fb?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No disrespect, but if you have to ask those questions, you are so far away from getting this program to work I doubt anyone can help using the forum. Probably the only way to help you is to spend an hour talking you through
setting-up Shoot using a voice-comm program.

If you don't have time to learn how to change the xml file to suit your needs, then unfortunately this program is not for you; editing the xml file is very necessary.
It seems to me like you've spent all your time on the voice training, rather than editing the xml file. You shouldn't have to do more than 'Aesop's fables' to get MS-Speech working well; infact I didn't even have to do that.

Plus, there is always the fact that Shoot/MS-Speech can be quite 'buggy', depending on platform, drivers and hardware. So you might be doing everything correctly, but something in your system is preventing it from working. ie. bad microphone quality, old soundcard driver, using a newer version of .NET Framework, etc.
In addition, each OS handles sound differently, so each OS has it's own quirks when running speech recognition programs.
Furthermore, I found I had to spend quite a while adjusting all your sound inputs and outputs so all the programs that you're running simultaneously have the right levels relative to each other.

If you've spent enough time trying to figure it out, I would give up and try 'Game Commander'; they've got a trail version. It looks as though the development of Shoot ended months ago anyway; I doubt we'll ever see the 'promised' Shoot 2.0.

<A HREF="http://www.the-vaw.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.9thawacs.com/modules/My_Uploads/user_folders/9th_Antifreeze/il2logo.jpg
</A>

9th AWACS is Recruiting: (http://www.9thawacs.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=19)
Accept all players (16+ years old).
Play FB for fun + VEF/VWF.
Fly when you want to (no minimum).
Training given on request.
Dedicated Teamspeak server.
Several other games played.
Members from all over Europe.

Sofiyah
09-12-2004, 08:35 AM
Weaseal

How do i use notepad inconjunction with shoot?

By they way i do not play online

Sofiyah
09-12-2004, 08:46 AM
hi

Now I have to learnt edited the xml file and if i do not know how i am rather stupid, mmm so is there a little scret to get this littel program to work, do i have to suffer endless hours of torture so i can be in the in crowd. Yes I got it working it works, i sweated blood and water bah.

Erm thats right blame the system not the programmer. duh.

weasel75
09-12-2004, 10:35 AM
Okay, you asked http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In your profiles-directory are some xml-files. Take them as an example, copy the "il2.xml" to "fb.xml" (you just made a backup).
Open the "fb.xml" in notepad ("Open" from "File"-menu). Take a look at it. Each command has a &lt;command&gt;-block. Within that block 3 things are defined:
- the name of the command (displayed in Shoot!)
- the phrase (the text to be recognized)
- the keypresses - multiple lines of keypresses mean that the keys they will be send one at the time, multiple keys in on "tag" mean they will be simulated at the same time ... "CTRL g" would do tell Shoot! to simulate a CTRL-g keypress (SHIFT is another often used shortcut), while "TAB" "1" "8" "9" in seperate lines will simulate a more complex radio-command.

In the il2/fb.xml some commands have no keypress assigned (lower/raise gear manually (for the I-16)). Other commands are not making sense ("flaps" or "dive-brakes" are vital enough that they belong under direct control (HOTAS or keyboard)). Remove some unused commands or rename them, give them a different phrase/keypress/name.

Just watch the "tags" (open and close tags properly). The Shoot!-homepage has some good documentation about the configuration via xml.

Finally, save the fb.xml and open it from Shoot!

Good luck - W75

PS: S! to AntiFreeze http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
AntiFreeze is right, while microphones are not the latest thing on market, they still have a wide quality-range ..... and the driver-support for mic is not always the best.
PPPS: Game-Commander may be better for you, but its commercial product (trial is free).

Sofiyah
09-12-2004, 12:52 PM
hi
weasel

thanks for the editing instructions that seems straight forward and easy,, but the problem is the program does allocated the correct voice command to the correct phrase etc. #As for game commander ahahhah $74 no thanks

mcTOPGUNs
09-12-2004, 01:16 PM
I dont know if I should try and help.... you seem a rather nasty person towards wingnut and hes a really good guy.

Visit TopGun's Website (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hj.carruthers/TopGun)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/UKTopGun/Signatures/Precint_TopGun.gif

weasel75
09-12-2004, 01:22 PM
As long as you speak at the same level and with same setup of the microphone (distance, volume, etc), it should work well.
Be sure to adjust your mic-volume and distance with Shoot! (not the Speech-training again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, just the part with reading 2 sentences). This is really crucial.
And dont make the phrases to short.

weasel75
09-12-2004, 01:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mcTOPGUNs:
I dont know if I should try and help.... you seem a rather nasty person towards wingnut and hes a really good guy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, people can get very aggressive when free software is not working http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
But from Windoze they take whatever M$ says http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BTW: Maybe we should collect the texts in this thread and put together some readme for Shoot!?
(I'd help, but not being native-speaker I would like to have some1 check-reading the result)

Sofiyah
09-12-2004, 03:11 PM
hi

Yeah mentined the word free. People get angry if a program does not work as advertised regardless if its costing them or not, in fact I get angry more if i have to pay for it but still the anger is there. As for wingnut i took offence because he assume something.

Again people are not reading the posts, the software does not work period, regardless what phrase i say. Do ihave to shout do i have to be mindful of the tone in my voice, dam this, it too much hard work. I might as well press the key, do you see my point. The program was made to make things easier not harder. As for it being free well, its good of the guy to make it free, but he should make it work also.

First rule of marketing and business the customers is always right. Never blame their system, its the developers fault, does this mean I am not grateful, no, just frastraited thats all.

BaldieJr
09-12-2004, 04:25 PM
customer

n : someone who pays for goods or services

<A HREF="http://officemax.secureportal.com/" TARGET=_blank>
Hey ya'll prepare yourselves
for the rubberband man!</A>
http://www.fighterjerks.com/rbman.png
http://www.fighterjerks.com

weasel75
09-12-2004, 04:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sofiyah:
...People get angry if a program does not work as advertised regardless if its costing them or not....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SOME people get angry, especially the ones lacking patience.
And Shoot! does work, maybe not on your comp, maybe not as perfect as *you* expected, but your (high-level) expectation is not the problem of Shoot!
(unless someone actually had a interest to sell it to you in any way).
There was no label that said: click here and forget all your problems.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>in fact I get angry more if i have to pay for it but still the anger is there<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even more angry?
Seems like its time for some anger-management http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Relax, its just software, its just a computer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the software does not work period<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It works (at least here and on some other forum-member's computers too). If it does not work on *your* computer-setup, maybe there is a problem over at yours. A computer-program (and OS even more) is a complex thing. And: there was never a garanty for Shoot!
Maybe you expected it to work with just one click or without time-consuming hassle, tough luck, maybe wrong expectations http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Do ihave to shout do i have to be mindful of the tone in my voice, dam this, it too much hard work. I might as well press the key, do you see my point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sure I see the point. And I dont use Shoot! on a regular basis, my HOTAS works well enough (but not without a "hard work" invested for customization).
But again, you may jump around and get angry. If the program does not, what *you* expected it to do, then just leave it. Its like a piece of hardware... touch it .. try it.. if it does not feel good for your needs (stick to large, etc), either adept to the hardware or just find another one.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The program was made to make things easier not harder.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, just like any customization/configuration, first there is some work. When setting up your favourite key-mapping, your joystick or even new drivers for your gfx-card ... it all takes time in the beginning, and some might consider this as "hard". If its to hard, give up, spend time on more rewarding things. On the other hand: after some hours of customization of HOTAS, pedals, self-made throttle, TeamSpeak and TrackIR I too feel pretty exhausted from the "hard" work, but personally I think this setup was worth it.
Afterwards I am rewarded with much better, faster, easier (and more realistic?) control of the sim.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As for it being free well, its good of the guy to make it free, but he should make it work also.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can help too (see below, last paragraph). That way the energy wasted here can be used in a more constructive way.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>First rule of marketing and business the customers is always right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you are in no position to demand anything, since you are no customer (in a strict business-wise definition).
See it in a different (possible) light: Shoot! was written out of personal needs, and then it was released to the public so that anybody can download it. No paying, no guaranty, if you thinks its usefull, download it and try it. There is no other way to be sure that the program is the answer to you "problem".


Okay, with all the energy floating in this thread: maybe you can write a guide for first-time installers (based on your own experience). This guide/readme could be made public here or directly at the Shoot!-homepage http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
For the benefit of all.
And if someone complains about the quality of the readme, send 'em over!

Over 'n Out - W75

[This message was edited by weasel75 on Sun September 12 2004 at 04:06 PM.]