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ImPinheadDan
07-06-2012, 11:17 PM
Could Aveline (or her Descendant?) be the Eve that Desmond needs to meet?

who notices Aveline and Eve's names sound kinda similar? (Not that'll help my theory but I'm just gonna point that out before anyone else.)


Also here's what I've seen a another user said to those who think Aveline is fake:


Personally, I think that, considering this is propaganda to show a "grey area", Aveline's going to turn out to be sort of a "Batman" - a hero who does good, but has a darker road to her than Altair, Ezio, and Connor. Ezio and Altair have always been sort of "white knights" fighting for good despite some failures on their parts. The stuff she does will look REALLY bad to people, in a way that will change opinions on the Assassin's. She'll probably have done good by her morals and values, but maybe that will betray some of the morals of the Assassins and paint them in a bad light by association.

The Animus' purpose as a portal into people's genes to show the REAL events of the past that occurred would be skewed if Aveline was somehow "fake" and would bring up several important questions. How was she placed into history to be reenacted through the Animus? How did those people interact with the ghost she would be if she was placed back then? Basically how would they DO that? And WHY would Abstergo go so far as to create a false genetic life and historic impact through the Animus to propagate a secret war that sounds like fiction?

MetalCreed
07-06-2012, 11:26 PM
A character in a spin-off title can't be important to the main series, so no.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-06-2012, 11:27 PM
She is in a spin off title that only a handful will play. She isn't even related too Desmond. No.

freddie_1897
07-06-2012, 11:29 PM
I swear every single woman assassin in the AC universe has had a thread theorising on why they're eve

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-06-2012, 11:30 PM
Yeah. I think there was on Sofia? not sure.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 12:29 AM
A character in a spin-off title can't be important to the main series, so no.
Basically this. Not to mention that the Eve mentioned by S16 (most likely referring to the actual Eve of Adam and Eve of course, considering The Truth video came from him as well) may not even be related to the woman Desmond has to find as Juno mentions no name and explicitly states she doesn't even know who this woman is supposed to be. Besides, by that time pretty much everybody's bloodlines from Eve's time will have crossed, so we can assume basically all humans are direct descendants of Eve.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 12:33 AM
Yeah, but some have more First Civ blood in them.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 12:34 AM
Yeah, but some have more First Civ blood in them.
That is true. Desmond for example has, according to his father, such a high concentration of TWCB DNA he's "one in ten million".

Serrachio
07-07-2012, 12:35 AM
A character in a spin-off title can't be important to the main series, so no.


Basically this. Not to mention that the Eve mentioned by S16 (most likely referring to the actual Eve of Adam and Eve of course, considering The Truth video came from him as well) may not even be related to the woman Desmond has to find as Juno mentions no name and explicitly states she doesn't even know who this woman is supposed to be. Besides, by that time pretty much everybody's bloodlines from Eve's time will have crossed, so we can assume basically all humans are direct descendants of Eve.

Actually, that is incorrect. Daniel Cross plays a part in the comics, which are essentially a spin-off, though he was ordered to "retrieve" William Miles in the multiplayer videos of Revelations, along with an Abstergo recruit.

That proves that spin-offs to the Assassin's Creed series can be important to the main series.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 12:35 AM
But he was explained in the main game. And that is not as major as something like Eve.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 12:42 AM
Actually, that is incorrect. Daniel Cross plays a part in the comics, which are essentially a spin-off, though he was ordered to "retrieve" William Miles in the multiplayer videos of Revelations, along with an Abstergo recruit.

That proves that spin-offs to the Assassin's Creed series can be important to the main series.
Well they can be important, but only in a supportive way. In this case however that seems rather impossible as it is in relation to Desmond and his story is finished with ACIII.

dxsxhxcx
07-07-2012, 12:53 AM
Basically this. Not to mention that the Eve mentioned by S16 (most likely referring to the actual Eve of Adam and Eve of course, considering The Truth video came from him as well) may not even be related to the woman Desmond has to find as Juno mentions no name and explicitly states she doesn't even know who this woman is supposed to be. Besides, by that time pretty much everybody's bloodlines from Eve's time will have crossed, so we can assume basically all humans are direct descendants of Eve.

the same way Desmond is important because he has a high concentration of TWCB DNA, I believe this "Eve" we need to find is also someone that like him has a high concentration of TWCB DNA, "Eve" was just a reference used by S16 (that I believe/hope it'll be properly explained in AC3)...

and I don't see the problem with Aveline being a character from a "spin off" game and her descendant being "Eve", Daniel Cross didn't appear in the (SP) game until now and this didn't stop them to give him an important role in the AC universe, his actions almost destroyed the Assassin Order during the modern days...

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 12:55 AM
He was just a tool too give the backstory of the Assassin's fall.
And oh, let's be perfectly honest, how big of a role will he play in AC III? If we do not lie too each other, not many of us care much about Desmond /:

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 01:13 AM
It is possible though that Aveline WILL appear in AC3 and will actually be an important character, just not playable. If she's the key to finding Eve, they would definitely keep it a secret till release. Her appearance would serve as both a plot point and also an in-game sort of advertisement of the Vita ACL - fans would be actually much more inclined to buy the ACL if they knew Aveline from AC3

dxsxhxcx
07-07-2012, 01:13 AM
in AC3 we'll discover that Adha, Shao Jun and Aveline are part of the same lineage of this "Eve" Desmond needs to find... :)


It is possible though that Aveline WILL appear in AC3 and will actually be an important character, just not playable. If she's the key to finding Eve, they would definitely keep it a secret till release. Her appearance would serve as both a plot point and also an in-game sort of advertisement of the Vita ACL - fans would be actually much more inclined to buy the ACL if they knew Aveline from AC3

If I'm not wrong it was said by Alex that Connor will make an appearance in ACL, but I don't remember now if they said that Aveline would also appear in AC3 or not...

Serrachio
07-07-2012, 01:18 AM
in AC3 we'll discover that Adha, Shao Jun and Aveline are part of the same lineage of this "Eve" Desmond needs to find... :)

If I'm not wrong it was said by Alex that Connor will make an appearance in ACL, but I don't remember now if they said that Aveline would also appear in AC3 or not...

I don't believe Adha ever had a child.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 01:20 AM
Adha was believed too be a Piece of Eden.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 02:30 PM
the same way Desmond is important because he has a high concentration of TWCB DNA, I believe this "Eve" we need to find is also someone that like him has a high concentration of TWCB DNA, "Eve" was just a reference used by S16 (that I believe/hope it'll be properly explained in AC3)...

and I don't see the problem with Aveline being a character from a "spin off" game and her descendant being "Eve", Daniel Cross didn't appear in the (SP) game until now and this didn't stop them to give him an important role in the AC universe, his actions almost destroyed the Assassin Order during the modern days...
Yes but again, we have Desmond's story ending in AC3. Whatever woman he needs to find he needs to find in AC3 and I'm quite sure Liberations doesn't take place inside the Animus or whatever.


It is possible though that Aveline WILL appear in AC3 and will actually be an important character, just not playable. If she's the key to finding Eve, they would definitely keep it a secret till release. Her appearance would serve as both a plot point and also an in-game sort of advertisement of the Vita ACL - fans would be actually much more inclined to buy the ACL if they knew Aveline from AC3
That is a possibility, but I think the whole Eve thing is actually separate from the woman Desmond has to find and I'm also quite sure it simply involves Desmond reliving Adam's or Eve's memories from around the time of the recorded sequence of S16 in The Truth.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 03:31 PM
I kinda wondered, why didn't he ever relieve they're memories?

POP1Fan
07-07-2012, 03:44 PM
I really think Aveline is going to be a semi-villain.If the game is supposed to be Templar propaganda, I think she is either a Templar or a very bad Assassin.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 03:45 PM
Errr...
She has a hidden blade
/:

LightRey
07-07-2012, 05:41 PM
I kinda wondered, why didn't he ever relieve they're memories?
They'd probably have to isolate the DNA (like with Ezio) and I can imagine they have other priorities.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 06:09 PM
That is a possibility, but I think the whole Eve thing is actually separate from the woman Desmond has to find and I'm also quite sure it simply involves Desmond reliving Adam's or Eve's memories from around the time of the recorded sequence of S16 in The Truth.If he can just relive Eve's memories than he would have her DNA and wouldn't need to find any woman (Eve's descendant) to go through some gate Juno was speaking.

Based on all we know, to me it seems like he really needs to find some Eve's descendant who has her DNA or memories. With all the Shroud->New York state connections, I think it could be the key. Maybe Ratonhnhaké:ton will find another Shroud in 18th century that will allow to access memories that would lead to Eve and her descendants. And through that,Desmond will find Eve's descendant in 21st century? Ehh this is all way too vague

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 06:11 PM
Some speculations went along the lines of Lucy...
But Lucy is dead, so go figure.
Maybe it's Rebecca? lol.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 06:16 PM
Some speculations went along the lines of Lucy...
But Lucy is dead, so go figure.
Maybe it's Rebecca? lol.In any case, I definitely think it has nothing to do with Desmond's "son" 16 was talking about. It doesn't even make sense. Plus, there's not even time for Desmond and any girl to produce a child together before the end of the world date in 2012. I mean, pregnancy takes 9 months

JCearlyyears
07-07-2012, 06:18 PM
I eat my food under-cooked sometimes.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 06:19 PM
Above@ Wrong thread.
I always preferred Rebecca over Lucy anyways...
Bleh, so many things too be answered. Hope AC III is long enough for all of them.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 06:20 PM
I eat my food under-cooked sometimes.
Phew! I can go on with my life now!

JCearlyyears
07-07-2012, 06:23 PM
I don't know if you guys get it, but I was saying that this baby will come out of the oven very early, and grow up very fast.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 06:24 PM
I don't know if you guys get it, but I was saying that this baby will come out of the oven very early, and grow up very fast.
But it's like 2-3 months left in the 2012 timeline before the solar flare lol.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 07:05 PM
Juno never mentions Eve. -__-
Pay more attention.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 07:07 PM
I beleive it was Juno who talked about Eve, did not play AC:B in a while.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 07:11 PM
Nope. Juno only mentions a "She". It's subject 16 who mentions Eve. Go check.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 07:22 PM
Juno never mentions Eve. -__-
Pay more attention.
But she mentions that "she remains to be found, and that she will accompany Desmond through the gate". And 16 mentions finding Eve, her DNA is the key. Not really a stretch to but these 2 things together. Form the player perspective, we're getting the clear message of finding some woman or something related to that woman.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 07:27 PM
But she mentions that "she remains to be found, and that she will accompany Desmond through the gate". And 16 mentions finding Eve, her DNA is the key. Not really a stretch to but these 2 things together. Form the player perspective, we're getting the clear message of finding some woman or something related to that woman.
Actually, it is quite a stretch. You see, Juno knows Eve. If she does, why does she explicitly state she does not know who the woman Desmond needs to find is? and why, if the main significance of this woman would be a relation to Eve, would she not mention that to Desmond, especially if she knows S16 told Desmond about Eve as she basically told him to save Desmond (that's known from TLA) and, y'know, she can predict the future in scary detail.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 07:28 PM
So many answers AC III needs too deliver I am afraid it might fall short.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 07:35 PM
So many answers AC III needs too deliver I am afraid it might fall short.
Meh, I wouldn't want everything answered anyways. I like theorizing and speculating.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 07:36 PM
It's the last game /:

LightRey
07-07-2012, 07:40 PM
It's the last game /:
It's the last game for Desmond. It's certainly not the last AC game.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 07:52 PM
Actually, it is quite a stretch. You see, Juno knows Eve. If she does, why does she explicitly state she does not know who the woman Desmond needs to find is? and why, if the main significance of this woman would be a relation to Eve, would she not mention that to Desmond, especially if she knows S16 told Desmond about Eve as she basically told him to save Desmond (that's known from TLA) and, y'know, she can predict the future in scary detail.But she doesn't know Eve's descendant. Obviously we're not suppoused to find actual Eve who would be still alive after IDK 16000 years ;P

As for the entire future predicting and time manipulation. That's a mess no story should ever touch. Time manipulation (whether into the future or past) is a logic can of worms that makes any series that touches it start to make less and less sense.


It's the last game for Desmond. It's certainly not the last AC game.
But hopefully the 2012 world end story will end. We've been tuck in that 2012 thing for the last 5 years. It's time to finish it and move on. We can still have Assassin's vs Templars, fighting what's right and wrong, but let just save the world from sun flare already

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 07:54 PM
But she doesn't know Eve's descendant. Obviously we're not suppoused to find actual Eve who would be still alive after IDK 16000 years ;P

As for the entire future predicting and time manipulation. That's a mess no story should ever touch. Time manipulation (whether into the future or past) is a logic can of worms that makes any series that touches it start to make less and less sense.

16000 is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less :P

And time manipulating can create more plot holes in one game than 3 games.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 07:58 PM
But she doesn't know Eve's descendant. Obviously we're not suppoused to find actual Eve who would be still alive after IDK 16000 years ;P

As for the entire future predicting and time manipulation. That's a mess no story should ever touch. Time manipulation (whether into the future or past) is a logic can of worms that makes any series that touches it start to make less and less sense.
Ah, but now you're forced to find loopholes, making the whole thing a lot less likely (by Occam's Razor).
Also, 16000 years? -__-
It's most likely 100,000 (the time humans started moving out of Africa) or at least more than 77,000 years ago as that's when the Toba catastrophe (actually the first solar flare in the AC universe) happened and the war, which was started by Adam and Eve stealing an apple, was ongoing at that point.
You're trying to tie 2 things together just because they're in the same game. The fact of the matter is that there is no clear evidence suggesting this woman Juno mentions has anything to do with Eve, especially since everybody is related to Eve (even if she wasn't the only woman at the time, it was about 100,000 years ago and there weren't that many people plus there was a point after that event that reduced them to a mere 10,000, which was still over 70,000 years ago, so combine that with the mixing of bloodlines and you can come to the obvious conclusion that indeed by now everyone will be related to her) by this point.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 08:06 PM
Lightrey, I saw AC:R's ending again, they said LESS than 10k, not 10k.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 08:06 PM
Also, 16000 years? -__-
It's most likely 100,000 (the time humans started moving out of Africa) or at least more than 77,000 years ago as that's when the Toba catastrophe (actually the first solar flare in the AC universe) happened and the war, which was started by Adam and Eve stealing an apple, was ongoing at that point.I didn't remember the timeline exactly, so I picked random big number :o



You're trying to tie 2 things together just because they're in the same game. The fact of the matter is that there is no clear evidence suggesting this woman Juno mentions has anything to do with Eve, especially since everybody is related to Eve (even if she wasn't the only woman at the time, it was about 100,000 years ago and there weren't that many people plus there was a point after that event that reduced them to a mere 10,000, which was still over 70,000 years ago, so combine that with the mixing of bloodlines and you can come to the obvious conclusion that indeed by now everyone will be related to her) by this point.
Yes I kinda am. It's because it's in the same game and involves a mysteries woman figure Desmond needs to find. Of course there's no clear evidence Juno was speaking about Eve because she never says that name, but I'm trying to think "what are the writers trying to hint at". And if they're putting two references to a woman figure Desmond needs to find, I'm assuming it's about the same thing to reassure that players get the hint.

As for being related. Why would 16 say "find Eve's DNA" if Desmond already has it (if everyone's related to her)?

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 08:14 PM
I guess he meant higher concentration?

LightRey
07-07-2012, 08:17 PM
I didn't remember the timeline exactly, so I picked random big number :o


Yes I kinda am. It's because it's in the same game and involves a mysteries woman figure Desmond needs to find. Of course there's no clear evidence Juno was speaking about Eve because she never says that name, but I'm trying to think "what are the writers trying to hint at". And if they're putting two references to a woman figure Desmond needs to find, I'm assuming it's about the same thing to reassure that players get the hint.

As for being related. Why would 16 say "find Eve's DNA" if Desmond already has it (if everyone's related to her)?
I know you're trying to think that, but that doesn't mean that every slight thing that could suggest something actually suggests something or certainly not what you think it suggests. There are several factors making this a little too complicated for a smooth, logical turn of events and it's not as obvious a tie as people like to believe. Finally, there are many points in Ubi's storytelling where they are deliberately making it seem like 2 things are tied together just so that people will fall for it. Don't let this cloud your judgement. We have too little to go on to tie these 2 things together.

He didn't say "Find Eve's DNA". He said "Find Eve. The key. Her DNA."
That to me spells him reliving her memories.

Oh, and I know it's less than 10k (which works out in my favor), I just didn't want to add trivial details.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 08:19 PM
Some people suggested a kid, but it's 3 months. Unless magic, not possible.

dxsxhxcx
07-07-2012, 08:21 PM
wasn't Juno the one who gave S16 the "knowledge" to help Desmond?! Maybe with this "knowledge" S16 was able to discover more about this person Desmond needs to find and told him what he could in ACB...

LightRey
07-07-2012, 08:23 PM
wasn't Juno the one who gave S16 the "knowledge" to help Desmond?! Maybe with this "knowledge" S16 was able to discover more about this person Desmond needs to find and told him what he could in ACB...
That "knowledge" is referring to knowing how to let his body die but his mind survive inside the animus. I thought that was pretty obvious.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 08:23 PM
He didn't say "Find Eve's DNA". He said "Find Eve. The key. Her DNA."
That to me spells him reliving her memories.Possible. Maybe those will be Desmond's levels (outside of Ratonhnhaké:ton's story). But then why do we need Ratonhnhaké:ton for? Getting access to the Grand Temple? Finding the Shroud in America?

LightRey
07-07-2012, 08:25 PM
Possible. Maybe those will be Desmond's levels (outside of Ratonhnhaké:ton's story). But then why do we need Ratonhnhaké:ton for? Getting access to the Grand Temple? Finding the Shroud in America?
I don't think this has anything to do with the Shroud as it has moved around a lot since Connor's time. I'd say it has to do with the Grand Temple. Maybe getting in, maybe learning how to use it, idk.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 08:31 PM
Why does he need the shroud anyway?

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 08:33 PM
I don't think this has anything to do with the Shroud as it has moved around a lot since Connor's time. I'd say it has to do with the Grand Temple. Maybe getting in, maybe learning how to use it, idk.The city the Grand Temple is located in is called Turin. When Giovanni Borgia enters the Pythagorean Temple (where Ezio got the co-ordinates to the Grand Temple in Turin, NY), Consus speaks through his body. Giovanni "acquired" Consus after touching the Shroud. Erudito appeared in ACB, and then he was involved in Project Legacy that focused heavily on the Shroud.

There's a big gap between the Shroud's last appearance in 16th century and Templars retrieving it during WW2. I don't think if Ratonhnhaké:ton was looking for the Shroud it would be the same European Shroud that was featured in Project Legacy memories. But it's possible, since there's that gap where we have no idea what was happening with the Shroud.

But it's also possible Ratonhnhaké:ton will looks for a different Shroud. There are multiple Apples of Eden, multiple memory Seals, there may be multiple Shrouds and Ratonhnhaké:ton would be looks for the one in America.

In any case, the Shroud connection seems to be rather heavily hinted at, the Turin coordinates being the prime evidence.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 08:34 PM
Why does he need the shroud anyway?
I suspect it's another desperate hope for reviving Lucy, which it can't even do.


The city the Grand Temple is located in is called Turin. When Giovanni Borgia enters the Pythagorean Temple (where Ezio got the co-ordinates to the Grand Temple in Turin, NY), Consus speaks through his body. Giovanni "acquired" Consus after touching the Shroud. Erudito appeared in ACB, and then he was involved in Project Legacy that focused heavily on the Shroud.

There's a big gap between the Shroud's last appearance in 16th century and Templars retrieving it during WW2. I don't think if Ratonhnhaké:ton was looking for the Shroud it would be the same European Shroud that was featured in Project Legacy memories. But it's possible, since there's that gap where we have no idea what was happening with the Shroud.

But it's also possible Ratonhnhaké:ton will looks for a different Shroud. There are multiple Apples of Eden, multiple memory Seals, there may be multiple Shrouds and Ratonhnhaké:ton would be looks for the one in America.

In any case, the Shroud connection seems to be rather heavily hinted at, the Turin coordinates being the prime evidence.
We have no evidence of a second shroud. Up until now the only PoE's of which there have been multiple versions are the crystal skulls and the apples (the seals aren't PoE's, just TWCB artifacts). I also don't see any significance of Consus in Desmond's story. In fact, nothing in particular about what has been revealed in PL has any direct significance to Desmond.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 08:34 PM
I know all of that, but what would Connor/Desmond want with it, really?
EDIT: We all know it cannot bring back the dead.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 08:41 PM
I know all of that, but what would Connor/Desmond want with it, really?
EDIT: We all know it cannot bring back the dead.
basically my point. :P

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 08:42 PM
Raton really wants the Shroud for the gay character :P

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 08:42 PM
I suspect it's another desperate hope for reviving Lucy, which it can't even do.Nope, I don't care for Lucy's revival


We have no evidence of a second shroud.It's called speculation.


I also don't see any significance of Consus in Desmond's story. In fact, nothing in particular about what has been revealed in PL has any direct significance to Desmond.PL focused a lot on the Shroud of Turin, and the coordinates from the Pythagorean Temple lead to a city called Turin. IMO that's a significant connection


Raton really wants the Shroud for the gay character :P
Nothing I want will change what developers already decided to happen in AC3 lol So at this point, I'm just speculating based on what we have

LightRey
07-07-2012, 08:49 PM
Nope, I don't care for Lucy's revival

It's called speculation.

PL focused a lot on the Shroud of Turin, and the coordinates from the Pythagorean Temple lead to a city called Turin. IMO that's a significant connection


Nothing I want will change what developers already decided to happen in AC3 lol So at this point, I'm just speculating based on what we have
Figured that after reading your other post.

I know, but we could speculate on lots of things. Let's focus on the more likely ones.

Actually, they lead to a place still quite a distance from a city called Turin and it's also located near several other cities named after great Italian cities, which with Turin form a Pythagorean triangle, etc. Imo, that's not a very significant connection.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 08:56 PM
I know, but we could speculate on lots of things. Let's focus on the more likely ones.What's likely or not is subjective :p


Actually, they lead to a place still quite a distance from a city called Turin and it's also located near several other cities named after great Italian cities, which with Turin form a Pythagorean triangle, etc. Imo, that's not a very significant connection.On the contrary. Forming a Pythagorean triangle with other cities named after European originals that already proved significance to the franchise only makes it more possible to me that the Turin name is also supposed to be significant.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 09:00 PM
I am just not sure what role it would play if they look for it /: It cant do much.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 09:02 PM
What's likely or not is subjective :p

On the contrary. Forming a Pythagorean triangle with other cities named after European originals that already proved significance to the franchise only makes it more possible to me that the Turin name is also supposed to be significant.
Actually, it's not subjective. It's not for nothing there's an entire branch of math dedicated to it. It's actually not subjective at all.

...not really. First of all there will always be things like that you'll be able to find with any random location. You'll see patterns everywhere. Also, the shroud of Turin is actually a fake. The actual shroud was never in Turin to begin with.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 09:10 PM
Actually, it's not subjective. It's not for nothing there's an entire branch of math dedicated to it. It's actually not subjective at all.Yes it is. We're all discussing potential hints and clues and references and each of them may eventually turn out to not have been significant at all/misleading/incorrectly interpreted. We ain't developers, we don't know what they ultimately cooked up for AC3.



...not really. First of all there will always be things like that you'll be able to find with any random location. You'll see patterns everywhere. Also, the shroud of Turin is actually a fake. The actual shroud was never in Turin to begin with.Yes, but to Desmond and players the connection is natural, it's an obvious play from the dev team on the Shroud of Turin conspiracy/myth/mystery. In Project Legacy, the Shroud is even named like that "Shroud of Turin: mystery or great hoax?" don't remember exactly, but Erudito actually used the Turin name for the Shroud

LightRey
07-07-2012, 09:16 PM
Yes it is. We're all discussing potential hints and clues and references and each of them may eventually turn out to not have been significant at all/misleading/incorrectly interpreted. We ain't developers, we don't know what they ultimately cooked up for AC3.

Yes, but to Desmond and players the connection is natural, it's an obvious play from the dev team on the Shroud of Turin conspiracy/myth/mystery. In Project Legacy, the Shroud is even named like that "Shroud of Turin: mystery or great hoax?" don't remember exactly, but Erudito actually used the Turin name for the Shroud
I don't think you fully understand the concept of probability. It's based on available information, not potential information. That doesn't make any sense. With a certain amount of information, the probability of a certain fact being true or false is a set value. It's not subjective, not as long as the information we both have is (practically) identical, which it is. Seriously, you're actually trying to disprove the entire concept of probability calculus.

Of course the Turin name for the Shroud is used, because it's thought that that shroud was the piece of cloth Jesus was buried in, which is what the actual shroud was (hence his resurrection). However, Desmond isn't even aware of the shroud and the shroud in question, even if there are more of them which would be unrelated to Turin and Jesus, is not even close to Connor at the time he's there and it has moved around a lot since then.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 09:21 PM
You can estimate probability based on what you have, not what you may think you have.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 09:26 PM
You can estimate probability based on what you have, not what you may think you have.

exactly.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 09:30 PM
I don't think you fully understand the concept of probability. It's based on available information, not potential information. That doesn't make any sense. With a certain amount of information, the probability of a certain fact being true or false is a set value. It's not subjective, not as long as the information we both have is (practically) identical, which it is. Seriously, you're actually trying to disprove the entire concept of probability calculus.I get the probability concept, but you're trying to attach it to something that has information that is practically impossible to discuss without assuming some base for interpretation, without considering various potential info it may carry.



Of course the Turin name for the Shroud is used, because it's thought that that shroud was the piece of cloth Jesus was buried in, which is what the actual shroud was (hence his resurrection). However, Desmond isn't even aware of the shroud and the shroud in question, even if there are more of them which would make it unrelated to Turin and Jesus, is not even close to Connor at the time he's there and it has moved around a lot since then.No. The POE Shroud's location is unknown between 16th century and WW2 when the Templars acquire it in Milan. It could've been moving all around the world during period, it could've stayed in one place, but you can't state it like a fact that it's not close to Ratonhnhaké:ton in late 18th century. And yes, Desmond would not know about the POE Shroud (his father may be though), but he would know about the fake Turin Shroud because it exists in 2012

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 09:32 PM
The question is tho: What use is it too him? we all know it cant revive the dead. And Consus cant really help much.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 09:41 PM
I get the probability concept, but you're trying to attach it to something that has information that is practically impossible to discuss without assuming some base for interpretation, without considering various potential info it may carry.

No. The POE Shroud's location is unknown between 16th century and WW2 when the Templars acquire it in Milan. It could've been moving all around the world during period, it could've stayed in one place, but you can't state it like a fact that it's not close to Ratonhnhaké:ton in late 18th century. And yes, Desmond would not know about the POE Shroud (his father may be though), but he would know about the fake Turin Shroud because it exists in 2012
There you go again. Potential information doesn't influence the probability. A probability is defined as the sum of all possible ways in which it would lead to the proposed outcome divided by all possibilities in total, based on the information you have. Potential information can, under no circumstances be considered. That contradicts the definition and the whole logical idea behind probability.

Even if it were near Connor, what does it matter? What does Desmond need it for? The shroud has no known functions that seem to be significant to Desmond. Desmond already has an Apple and since Connor already has an apple to deal with too, that's actually the one thing they have (suspiciously) in common. You're basing your entire argument on the fact that there happens to be a town somewhat nearby where Desmond is that happens to have the same name as the town where a fake shroud is located. It's really not much to go on and it's certainly not the kind of connection we've ever seen in an AC game before.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 09:49 PM
I'm gonna put it other way. What are you actually interested about in discussing/speculating about the plot in AC3? All my ideas are in your opinion just unlikely and based on information you consider irrelevant and unintended by developers as a clue.

eagleforlife1
07-07-2012, 09:52 PM
I'm gonna put it other way. What are you actually interested about in discussing/speculating about the plot in AC3? All my ideas are in your opinion just unlikely and based on information you consider irrelevant and unintended by developers as a clue.

I've learned to just let LightRey believe he's won.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 10:03 PM
I'm gonna put it other way. What are you actually interested about in discussing/speculating about the plot in AC3? All my ideas are in your opinion just unlikely and based on information you consider irrelevant and unintended by developers as a clue.
I just take what I see and say what I think. Trust me, it has nothing to do with you. I don't consider what you say irrelevant, but I consider all other (groups of) possibilities I can think of as well and can only come to the conclusion that your theory isn't likely. However, I would be more than interested to discuss the hypothetical situation(s) that could result if we were to assume that your theory is correct, simply to explore the possible impacts on the story and refresh our minds on the concepts, objects and people involved. Just don't assume that your theory is likely.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 10:13 PM
I just take what I see and say what I think. Trust me, it has nothing to do with you. I don't consider what you say irrelevant, but I consider all other (groups of) possibilities I can think of as well and can only come to the conclusion that your theory isn't likely. However, I would be more than interested to discuss the hypothetical situation(s) that could result if we were to assume that your theory is correct, simply to explore the possible impacts on the story and refresh our minds on the concepts, objects and people involved. Just don't assume that your theory is likely.

Curious change. 2 pages ago you weren't interested in discussing what you assumed was unlikely:

I know, but we could speculate on lots of things. Let's focus on the more likely ones.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 10:15 PM
Curious change. 2 pages ago you weren't interested in discussing what you assumed was unlikely:
Just because I don't want to focus on it doesn't mean I don't want to discuss it at all. I just want to discuss it as a hypothetical.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 10:17 PM
Basically he meant he would like too discuss those theories, just not focus on them.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 10:23 PM
Just because I don't want to focus on it doesn't mean I don't want to discuss it at all. I just want to discuss it as a hypothetical.
Great, but other people may want to focus on it.

LightRey
07-07-2012, 10:33 PM
Great, but other people may want to focus on it.
Well I'm not stopping you, I'm just voicing my objections.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-07-2012, 10:45 PM
Well I'm not stopping you, I'm just voicing my objections.
Cool

http://i50.tinypic.com/2w3dmpg.gif

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-07-2012, 10:50 PM
Lol. I am not the only one that uses GIF's xD

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 02:07 AM
So you're saying that Daniel Cross isn't important at all?

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:09 AM
Not as much as Eve/The women we need too find. He is far more of a support character.

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 02:15 AM
So wait, So Eve/the Woman are separate, They have no relevance to each other?? I've need to start playing AC again. I just really hate when people assume characters from spin-offs are not important.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:16 AM
No, we do not KNOW if they are the same.

Assassin_M
07-08-2012, 02:17 AM
So far.. every female to have been given just an over average role has been thought as the "Eve" -__-

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:20 AM
LOL. I agree xD
What next, Rosa is Eve?

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 02:20 AM
So far.. every female to have been given just an over average role has been thought as the "Eve" -__-

Yeah buddy, that has been already stated. -_-

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:21 AM
They would never make a spin off character that important. No company with the right mind would do that.

Assassin_M
07-08-2012, 02:22 AM
Yeah buddy, that has been already stated. -_-
It has ? I didnt really bother to read the entire thread..

Assassin_M
07-08-2012, 02:23 AM
LOL. I agree xD
What next, Rosa is Eve?
Good god, man !! Its just 2 seconds and BAM you reply xD

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:24 AM
Activity is my middle name~

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 02:25 AM
Activity is my middle name~

That probably means you've on the forums for very long?

Assassin_M
07-08-2012, 02:26 AM
Activity is my middle name~
GET SOME SLEEP !! how long have you been awake for ?

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:26 AM
Check my post count and when I joined...xD

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 02:27 AM
Check my post count and when I joined...xD

How is that even possible, I don't know.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:28 AM
Lost track of time, does time really matter much?

JCearlyyears
07-08-2012, 02:28 AM
I was looking at your profile hasoon and I was looking at the right column and it said never and I immediately guessed it was talking 'bout when you sleep. Not kidding.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:30 AM
Well then, this forum can identify it's users well.

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 02:30 AM
People on these forums got too much time into their hands.

Assassin_M
07-08-2012, 02:31 AM
Well then, this forum can identify it's users well.
Dude, you`re basically here alone sometimes..
when the WHOLE forum is a sleep, you`re just there... pressing the refresh button

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:31 AM
Works fine for me~
Summer, terrible weather, and got nothing too do.

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 02:38 AM
Works fine for me~
Summer, terrible weather, and got nothing too do.

it is extremely hot where I live at right now. And inside isn't any better.:nonchalance:

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:43 AM
Here it's extremely hot + Sandstorms.

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 02:54 AM
LOL. I agree xD
What next, Rosa is Eve?

Late comment is late but I hadn't see this till now. I agree its stupid to theorize other female characters who has a small role in the AC games but Aveline is the main character of Liberation. That's illogical.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:55 AM
But she is in a Spin-off. Not a main game. And it is not even Desmond relieving her memories, what the hell is the point?

Assassin_M
07-08-2012, 02:57 AM
But she is in a Spin-off. Not a main game. And it is not even Desmond relieving her memories, what the hell is the point?
I remember a certain someone responsible for the fall of the Assassin Order having only a comic book:rolleyes:

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 02:58 AM
He is a supporting character really. That was just a backstory, he is not a major character.

Assassin_M
07-08-2012, 02:59 AM
He is a supporting character really. That was just a backstory, he is not a major character.
Oh ? so that makes Desmond a minor character ? Daniel`s story IS the main story of the comic..

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 03:00 AM
But she is in a Spin-off. Not a main game. And it is not even Desmond relieving her memories, what the hell is the point?

I didn't even say that Desmond is relieving her memories. Why would Ubisoft make a game for Aveline? Where they so bored that they made another game just for the hell of it?

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 03:03 AM
Because they want too try a female Assassin + a game for Vita?....
No, Desmond appears in every single game and is stressed too be the main character, Cross is just in a Comic Book, hell, Ubisoft said we will assassinate somebody in the first 30 seconds of the game, we might kill Cross there, and he is not as big of a key point as Eve.

Assassin_M
07-08-2012, 03:04 AM
Because they want too try a female Assassin + a game for Vita?....
No, Desmond appears in every single game and is stressed too be the main character, Cross is just in a Comic Book, hell, Ubisoft said we will assassinate somebody in the first 30 seconds of the game, we might kill Cross there, and he is not as big of a key point as Eve.
Oh noooo they guy who only caused the fall of the Assassin order and is considered the second-best mole for Abstergo is not that big of a key point.. Yeah.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 03:08 AM
Yeah, he isn't. Mostly because the fall of the Order is backstory, really. His role will probably be ''Hey, I am gonna sto-'' gets killed by Desmond.
He is not as pivotal as Eve.

Assassin_M
07-08-2012, 03:10 AM
Yeah, he isn't. Mostly because the fall of the Order is backstory, really. His role will probably be ''Hey, I am gonna sto-'' gets killed by Desmond.
He is not as pivotal as Eve.
The fall is a bakstor- HOW THE HE- ?? Im not gonna bother.. I give up

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 03:11 AM
http://www.myfacewhen.com/58/

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 03:12 AM
It is technically back story explaining how the Templars are winning the war.

Assassin_M
07-08-2012, 03:13 AM
It is technically back story explaining how the Templars are winning the war.
So the Templar-Assassin war is a back-story now ? My god..

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 03:15 AM
So the Templar-Assassin war is a back-story now ? My god..

Just let him believe he has won. This is just ridiculous.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 03:16 AM
No you...
I meant the backstory of HOW the Templars are winning...
-_____-'

dxsxhxcx
07-08-2012, 03:49 AM
this is a little off topic but I was watching the TLA walkthrough made by Escoblades today and I realized that in one of the memories they talk about S15 (that it seems it was being kept by Abstergo at the same time as S16), what if S15 or her child is the person Desmond needs to find?! It seems that she died according to one of the Vidic emails, but if you read all the 3 emails where Lucy and him talk about this subject, you may notice that there is something strange in them:




Warren Vidic
FWD: 15
December 14, 2010 14:00
To: Steve Gibbs
CC: James Morse
Steve:
When the disposal unit calls, can you send them down to the labs? I am leaving to make the flight for tomorrow’s meeting at Blair House. I’ve CCed the secretary at our Washington office, so he can draft an accident report for Subject 15. Something involving a vacation gone wrong and cars, the drivers here are abysmal.

Warren Vidic
RE: 15
December 14, 2010 13:15
To: Lucy Stillman
Lucy:
If you say that she is in danger, then by all means we will cease the experiment. We already have enough data for the next iteration of the Animus. In addition, I should congratulate you for the discovery of your aptly named combined-memory-effect, which will allow us to extract fetal genetic memories. At some point, that procedure may prove most useful if we are searching for the memories of a missing father. Great work! You can take the rest of the day off.

Lucy Stillman
SUBJECT: 15
December 14, 2010 12:45
To: Warren Vidic
Warren,
I’m seeing several warning signs. The test subject seems confused and we are detecting an increased flow of adrenaline. Her Raphe neurons seem to be activating at an accelerated rate. Somehow, the Animus is inducing an incomplete state of dream-sleep. We have not seen this reaction from a test subject’s brain in the past. I am concerned that bodily functioning may be disrupted, which could endanger the growth of her child.
Please advise,
Lucy



as you can read above, Lucy sent an email to Vidic at 12:45, he answered it 30 minutes later saying that they should stop using her if the animus sessions were a risk to her life, and then 45 minutes after he sent that email, he sent another one to Steve Gibbs and James Morse asking them to make a fake accident report for S15, even if the reason why they stopped her sessions was to keep S15's baby alive and didn't care about her, IMO this means that she could still be alive by now and probably being kept by Abstergo (if they bother to make a fake accident report for her I don't think they were planning to release her).. what do you think about this?!

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 03:54 AM
The Child? maybe...

E-Zekiel
07-08-2012, 09:42 AM
No offense but if it's not in a big title game it's back-story. That doesn't mean it's a horrible story. That doesn't mean it's unimportant. There are green screens used in tons of movies as backgrounds. If you just left them green, the movie would be ridiculous. You need a good background. But it's still a part of the background.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 09:44 AM
No offense but if it's not in a big title game it's back-story. That doesn't mean it's a horrible story. That doesn't mean it's unimportant. There are green screens used in tons of movies as backgrounds. If you just left them green, the movie would be ridiculous. You need a good background. But it's still a part of the background.

That is exactly what I mean. Daniel Cross is just backstory.

Tzeentch_859
07-08-2012, 10:49 AM
Good pick up, however if the child is still alive and is the descendant of Eve
then the theory of Desmond and Eve Descendant having an offspring of pure TWCB DNA is out of the picture.
Then again maybe only the DNA is required to maybe search it within an Animus similar to how memories apply in Project Legacy.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 10:49 AM
It is not possible too make a child in those 2-3 months, pregnancy is 9 months.

Tzeentch_859
07-08-2012, 10:51 AM
Yeah thats what I said. But if only the childs DNA is required than that is possible, however it seems really unlikely.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 10:52 AM
A child does not appear out of thin air, and PL made several plot holes with memory farming and DDS, why did they kidnap Desmond if they can just do that?

LightRey
07-08-2012, 01:11 PM
A child does not appear out of thin air, and PL made several plot holes with memory farming and DDS, why did they kidnap Desmond if they can just do that?
Because they still need the relevant data. They clearly didn't have enough data from Ezio and Altaďr to analyze their lives (else they would've done so) and we have no idea how exactly the DDS works. It's not like they can magically extract memories out of thin air, it still needs a source even if there are no descendants.

freddie_1897
07-08-2012, 01:42 PM
All I can say to this is that Corey mays mind is harder to understand than bob Dylan speaking Cantonese while underwater with a dummy in his mouth

dxsxhxcx
07-08-2012, 01:44 PM
All I can say to this is that Corey mays mind is harder to understand than bob Dylan speaking Cantonese while underwater with a dummy in his mouth

or maybe we are making things more complicated than they are when the answer is simple and is right in front of us.. :p

RatonhnhakeFan
07-08-2012, 01:52 PM
Because they still need the relevant data. They clearly didn't have enough data from Ezio and Altaďr to analyze their lives (else they would've done so) and we have no idea how exactly the DDS works. It's not like they can magically extract memories out of thin air, it still needs a source even if there are no descendants.
Every cell in human body has the same full DNA sequence, so you can in theory extract the entire memory sequence of all ancestors from just 1 cell. They should clarify why it is not possible, because otherwise, it does render Abstergo's plan to kidnnap Desmond kind of pointless where they could just go to the bar he worked in and pick some hair samples.

dxsxhxcx
07-08-2012, 01:58 PM
Every cell in human body has the same full DNA sequence, so you can in theory extract the entire memory sequence of all ancestors from just 1 cell. They should clarify why it is not possible, because otherwise, it does render Abstergo's plan to kidnnap Desmond kind of pointless where they could just go to the bar he worked in and pick some hair samples.

I believe they still need someone to "play" those memories, look at how many problems Desmond had when he saw Altair's memories for the first time (and even with Ezio, when Desmond supposedly should be more used to him after AC2, he wasn't able to go straightforward to that memory where he fight Cesare), I don't think they can just extract a little of someone's blood and make another person "emulate" these memories that easy (at least) when they're seeing these memories for the first time, after they "record" them, that's a different story...

RatonhnhakeFan
07-08-2012, 02:01 PM
I believe they still need someone to "play" those memories, look at how many problems Desmond had when he saw Altair's memories for the first time, I don't think they can just extract a little of someone's blood and make another person "emulate" these memories that easy (at least) when they're seeing these memories for the first time, after they "record" them, that's a different story...But that's exactly how DDS works. It's not an already recorded "unlocked" memory who someone just re-plays. The Abstergo recruits are "unpacking" these memories for the first time. If Abstergo already had these memories recorded/"unpacked", they wouldn't need someone else to do it again, they would already have the information.

dxsxhxcx
07-08-2012, 02:23 PM
But that's exactly how DDS works. It's not an already recorded "unlocked" memory who someone just re-plays. The Abstergo recruits are "unpacking" these memories for the first time. If Abstergo already had these memories recorded/"unpacked", they wouldn't need someone else to do it again, they would already have the information.


what you said makes sense, but I still think the original user is needed in the animus at least when they're extracting this "unpacked" memories from his/her DNA and they can't simply do that from a blood sample or any other cell alone, let's say that the original user plays the role of Winrar where he'll be used to extract this memories from himself and "unpack" them without the necessity to see all their content, and then the Abstergo agents comes to play and "watch" the original user's memories to look for relevant information...

Serrachio
07-08-2012, 02:49 PM
One theory that can be considered is that Abstergo find people, induce them into a coma and place them in the Animus to record their memories, before disposing of them or mind-wiping them of the experience.

That way, they could still have the ancestor to play through the memories fully, but they wouldn't be able to remember it afterwards. (since with one outcome, they're dead)

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 02:50 PM
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120213055636/uncyclopedia/images/5/52/Double-facepalm.jpg

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 03:54 PM
DDS kinda goes against the entire point of kidnapping Desmond....

Serrachio
07-08-2012, 04:00 PM
DDS kinda goes against the entire point of kidnapping Desmond....

They'd need to capture him to get at the more important memories he possessed, since Clay Kaczmarek couldn't get to the point they needed, and that they'd need to record all of Desmond's interactions within the machine as Ezio for someone else to relive through them with the DDS.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 04:04 PM
I think this whole DDS thing is a late plot point added in for the sake of PL making sense..../:

Serrachio
07-08-2012, 04:12 PM
I think this whole DDS thing is a late plot point added in for the sake of PL making sense..../:

Not to mention that it defies canon material, since you can still view the memories of Perotto Calderon after conceiving Giovanni Borgia with Lucrezia. He couldn't even have had a child later on, since he was assassinated by his Order once he fought desperately to obtain and heal Giovanni with the Shroud.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 04:14 PM
I mean yeah, PL was cool, but atleast do go defying the cannon. We stopped following Altair when he had a child, why not now?

ImPinheadDan
07-08-2012, 06:21 PM
LOL, how did this thread get 139 replies in 3 days

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 06:23 PM
...Easily....xD
It happens on all threads, atleast when I am here :p

RatonhnhakeFan
07-08-2012, 07:23 PM
Not to mention that it defies canon material, since you can still view the memories of Perotto Calderon after conceiving Giovanni Borgia with Lucrezia. He couldn't even have had a child later on, since he was assassinated by his Order once he fought desperately to obtain and heal Giovanni with the Shroud.Here's probably the answer. He touched the Shroud. The later memories came from that. Just how we were able to relive memories of Niccolo di Pitigliano from the moment he was dying which is impossible with genetic line

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 07:34 PM
But the Shroud is not clear on how it is used.
You see, we got two contradicting cases here. You got the case of Perotto, and Giovanni.
First of all, it is shown too be able too show memories, basically a Animus, yes?
But here is a problem: What did the Shroud exactly do with the ''people'' who talked too Giovanni?
People who touched the shroud before started talking too him, now the problem here lies with the following: Which one does it do? and too what effect is each? does is trigger with different individuals?

RatonhnhakeFan
07-08-2012, 07:49 PM
But the Shroud is not clear on how it is used.
You see, we got two contradicting cases here. You got the case of Perotto, and Giovanni.
First of all, it is shown too be able too show memories, basically a Animus, yes?
But here is a problem: What did the Shroud exactly do with the ''people'' who talked too Giovanni?
People who touched the shroud before started talking too him, now the problem here lies with the following: Which one does it do? and too what effect is each? does is trigger with different individuals?One thing seems perfectly clear - the Shroud records memories of those who touch it. Hence how we Abstergo/Erudito was able to provide the PL recruits these memories to relive. These memories simply wouldn't exist anywhere in any form if it wasn't the Shroud that stored them.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 07:57 PM
One thing seems perfectly clear - the Shroud records memories of those who touch it. Hence how we Abstergo/Erudito was able to provide the PL recruits these memories to relive. These memories simply wouldn't exist anywhere in any form if it wasn't the Shroud that stored them.

True, but the whole dream think, Consus and what not really throw a loop at us in terms of how the Shoroud works, maybe different people and individuals = different effects? Sorta like the other POE's where you need too have high concentration of TWCB blood to use them.

Serrachio
07-08-2012, 11:53 PM
One thing seems perfectly clear - the Shroud records memories of those who touch it. Hence how we Abstergo/Erudito was able to provide the PL recruits these memories to relive. These memories simply wouldn't exist anywhere in any form if it wasn't the Shroud that stored them.

Until the effects of the Shroud are fully specified, it's too early to make assumptions.

Also, for the case of Frater V.O.V (William Robert Woodman) and Brutus, how could it record the memories of the dead? Since the Shroud wasn't used on either of them until they had died, and by that point, how could those memories be imparted? After all, it would be reasonable to assume that it would require someone to be alive to live through them. Also, why wasn't Jesus Christ's memories accumulated either?

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-08-2012, 11:55 PM
Until the effects of the Shroud are fully specified, it's too early to make assumptions.

Also, for the case of Frater V.O.V (William Robert Woodman) and Brutus, how could it record the memories of the dead? Since the Shroud wasn't used on either of them until they had died, and by that point, how could those memories be imparted?

...You just solved it.
If it is used on a dead person, he ''talks'' too the who ever touched it, if it is used on a somebody who is alive, you see there memories.

LightRey
07-09-2012, 10:45 AM
Every cell in human body has the same full DNA sequence, so you can in theory extract the entire memory sequence of all ancestors from just 1 cell. They should clarify why it is not possible, because otherwise, it does render Abstergo's plan to kidnnap Desmond kind of pointless where they could just go to the bar he worked in and pick some hair samples.
Because it's clearly not read by the Animus itself. The Animus just helps render it inside the mind of the subject. Vidic even explains in AC1 that merely putting Desmond in a coma would slow down the process. It's clearly mostly done by the subject's mind. The Animus just analyzes the DNA and uses that to trigger it somehow. Clearly a subject's DNA is not enough alone.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-09-2012, 04:23 PM
Clearly a subject's DNA is not enough alone.Isn't it exactly enough in DDS? They "stick" the DNA into it, have DDS "render" it like Animus does and have Abstergo recruits use their minds to live the rendered memories? If they needed to record the memories first, then there wouldn't be any need for Abstergo recruits to relive the memories again after they already got the original owner relive the memories to create a record

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-09-2012, 08:56 PM
DDS caused so many contradictions it was not worth having /:

ImPinheadDan
07-10-2012, 06:54 AM
i disagree. I believe it has still some use.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-10-2012, 06:57 AM
Not really. It is contradicting alot of the things in the series.

LightRey
07-10-2012, 02:10 PM
Isn't it exactly enough in DDS? They "stick" the DNA into it, have DDS "render" it like Animus does and have Abstergo recruits use their minds to live the rendered memories? If they needed to record the memories first, then there wouldn't be any need for Abstergo recruits to relive the memories again after they already got the original owner relive the memories to create a record
It's not. If it were they didn't need subjects for the DDS.

RatonhnhakeFan
07-10-2012, 04:06 PM
It's not. If it were they didn't need subjects for the DDS.I wasn't suggesting they don't need ANYONE to relive these farmed memories

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-10-2012, 10:11 PM
I wonder if they will clarify on this with Liberation...

ImPinheadDan
07-10-2012, 11:18 PM
I wonder if they will clarify on this with Liberation...

Maybe, or they might even do this on AC3

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-10-2012, 11:23 PM
Dont think so, as Liberation you dont actually play as anybody, just Templar's using Aveline as propaganda, and if the AC staff still remember the DDS, we might get more info.

LightRey
07-11-2012, 11:51 AM
I wasn't suggesting they don't need ANYONE to relive these farmed memories
Yes, but they need subjects to actually relive the memories.

dxsxhxcx
07-11-2012, 12:42 PM
Dont think so, as Liberation you dont actually play as anybody, just Templar's using Aveline as propaganda, and if the AC staff still remember the DDS, we might get more info.

but they didn't create Aveline out of nowhere, she's someone's ancestor, a proof that she is real (in the AC universe) is the fact that she'll meet Connor in her game... I doubt Abstergo knows who will be the next ancestor from who Desmond will see the memories...

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-11-2012, 12:43 PM
Yeah, they do not know, but you basically play as nobody in the modern day, just aveline.

ImPinheadDan
07-12-2012, 01:59 AM
Off topic be did anyone see That liberations extended trailer?

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-12-2012, 04:12 AM
Should that not go in the Liberation thread?

ImPinheadDan
07-14-2012, 03:34 AM
Oh wait there is one?

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-14-2012, 03:38 AM
I think it dis-appeared back in the pages, tho.

Stroonzje
07-14-2012, 05:48 PM
I saw somewhere in a video, where connor and another female are being recruited into the order, i hate thinking every girl in ac3 could be aveline but it could have been her.. maybe they were both recruited at the same time together and thats how they cross paths?

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-14-2012, 05:49 PM
....What video? link?

Stroonzje
07-14-2012, 06:15 PM
i dont have it, but i think it was on one of the e3 trailer or teasers, it showed up for like 3 seconds, if i l find it il post it here

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-14-2012, 06:27 PM
Which one? I saw all trailers, yet I cant find that scene.