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ASH at S-MART
08-26-2004, 03:48 PM
Does anyone know what it is?

Reason I ask is alot of people are using tracks as proof.. If we knew the format we could extract the telemetry (ie x,y,z) positional data from the track files and calculate things like

top speeds at alt
turn radius
clib rates and how rate changed with climb

I assume this is what Olegs folks can do when checking track files for cheats.. But they know the format.. Is the format aval to us 3rd party folks? Or has anyone cracked the format code?

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ASH at S-MART
08-26-2004, 03:48 PM
Does anyone know what it is?

Reason I ask is alot of people are using tracks as proof.. If we knew the format we could extract the telemetry (ie x,y,z) positional data from the track files and calculate things like

top speeds at alt
turn radius
clib rates and how rate changed with climb

I assume this is what Olegs folks can do when checking track files for cheats.. But they know the format.. Is the format aval to us 3rd party folks? Or has anyone cracked the format code?

ASH HOUSEWARES GROOVY (http://www.garnersclassics.com/wavs/army/groovy.wav)
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WTE_Galway
08-26-2004, 05:19 PM
AFAIK .. the track files contain control input data not positional data .. that is why the tracks do not work once the FM of an aircraft is altered by a patch

ASH at S-MART
08-26-2004, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
AFAIK .. the track files contain control input data not positional data .. that is why the tracks do not work once the FM of an aircraft is altered by a patch<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmmm.. Are you sure? I find that hard to belive.. I could see where that might work if all you recorded was your aircraft..

But online your recording other peoples aircraft too.. And you dont have acces to their control inputs.. And I doubt that my PC is receiving thier control inputs (via the internet) and then running a seperate FM for each.. That.. and even if that was the case.. Your PC would have to know WHERE their aircraft is at somepoint to display it relitive to yours.. So there has to be some sort of position data sent at least once.. So I doubt it.

Better to just take the end result from thier FM and display thier aircrat on my PC.. All you really need is the x,y,z the 3 angles and a state variable that controls things like aircraft type, damage, guns firing, smoke, etc.. one 32 bit word probally handle that.

But I do recall that being a problem back in the AOTP and RB days with thier track files.. In that you could tweak the FM on your PC.. Then if you played someone elses track it would play back differently

Hmmmm but on that note.. I have seen a few IL2 traks that had that symptom? ie a plane shooting at something that was not there.. As if it was out of sync with the rest.. Or maybe that data point for that aircraft didnt get recorded?

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[This message was edited by ASH_SMART on Thu August 26 2004 at 06:21 PM.]

diomedes33
08-26-2004, 09:49 PM
AFAIK there are two formats used by IL2.

Offline (.trk) is a text file, I'm pretty sure it doesn't have position data. Like Galway said, every patch that comes out the trk files no longer work.

Online (.ntrk) is some sort of binary file. There much bigger and probably has all the information that you're looking for Ash. However, for decoding it I have no idea. I toyed with it this summer trying to script camera movements but no luck. (I didn't really try that hard though)

Since 1c/Maddox uses these files to check against cheating it may even be encrypted.

Good Luck


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XyZspineZyX
08-26-2004, 09:58 PM
Come clean, SMART_ASH: you're fishing for some evidence so that when a track clearly shows some poor FMing, or example of something else wrong, you'll be able to say "Oh, tracks don't prove anything; why, they [whatever you manage to get out of this thread]...."

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ASH at S-MART
08-26-2004, 10:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
AFAIK there are two formats used by IL2.

Offline (.trk) is a text file, I'm pretty sure it doesn't have position data. Like Galway said, every patch that comes out the trk files no longer work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah.. I didn't know that! Thanks for the heads up!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
Online (.ntrk) is some sort of binary file. There much bigger and probably has all the information that you're looking for Ash.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Has to! Can not imagine how you could do it without it!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
However, for decoding it I have no idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmmm.. you know.. A lot of times they do binary just for the SIZE aspect.. It might have the same format as the .trk? But.. in light of what Galway said.. maybe not.. But seems like a strange way of doing it.. So.. To be clear.. When a patch comes out the (.trk) don't work in new version.. but the (.ntrk) still work? I'm pretty sure that they do.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
I toyed with it this summer trying to script camera movements but no luck. (I didn't really try that hard though)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>When you do edit the (.ntrk) post flying.. to move the camera angles.. it saves that into back into the (.ntrk) file right? Not some separate file?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
Since 1c/Maddox uses these files to check against cheating it may even be encrypted.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That would suck.. That is what actually got me thinking about this.. Recently some folks were stating they recorded something in a TRACK file (not sure if it is .ntrk or .trk) as some sort of proof of some BUG. I have implemented a lot of tracking algorithms at work to track missiles in flight.. So.. all I need is the XYZ and angles and I could write a program to plot the tack graphically and determine the MAX speeds and MAX turn radius and such.. and then bump that against some REAL WORLD data to see if the TRACK TEST matched the parameters of the REAL TEST.. Things like starting alt.. dive angle.. speed curves.. Stuff I have done at work.. And what with some of the new software I could make a pretty sweat 3D track plot.. Falcon 3.0 use to do that.. It would plot your path along with the enemy path from start to finish and it really helped to see where you went wrong! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But if it is encrypted.. That would suck.. I don't know why they would do that? Wouldn't stop people from cheating in anyway.. That and to encrypted it in real time while recording would just put more overhead on the PC.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
Good Luck<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks! I'm actually kind of motivated to do this.. What with the current crop of whiners claiming BUG and claimed to have a track of it.. A tool to analyze the flight minus all the graphics would put a lot of the whiners out of business

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ASH at S-MART
08-26-2004, 11:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Come clean, SMART_ASH: you're fishing for some evidence so that when a track clearly shows some poor FMing, or example of something else wrong, you'll be able to say "Oh, tracks don't prove anything; why, they [whatever you manage to get out of this thread]...." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! Your still upset that I made you look bad in the HL lobby? Bud! Get over it! I promise Ill go easy on you next time!

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ASH at S-MART
08-26-2004, 11:24 PM
Just did a quick test.. I wanted to see what that (.trk) version looked like.. in lue of diomedes33 saying it was a text file.. So I did a OFFLINE quick mission.. started the mission.. started the recording.. the took off.. flew a few feet.. stopped the recording and exit the game.

Went to the

"\IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles\records"

Directory to find my file to take a look at it.. Now I expected to see my file name with the *.trk extention.. In that diomedes33 said that is what the OFFLINE uses.. Well to my suprise my file name had the *.ntrk extention!

So it looks like the OFFLINE and ONLINE both use the *.ntrk format.

I seem to recall awhile back when they made the change to *.ntrk.. I didnt pay much att to it.. cept to note it was a dif format.

I did notice two *.trk files in the

"\IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles\records"

Called

ALL.TRK
ALL_AEP.TRK

When you open them up with a text editor there is not CONTROL info of any kind.. Just the names of other *.ntrk files with a at the top.. I *assume* this *.trk format is just a method to load and play multi *.ntrk files?

Anway.. Im glad to see they both have the same format! Does anyone know the history of the

*.trk -&gt; *.ntrk

change over? Did the orginla il2 use *.trk and somewhere along the line in FB they switchd to *.ntrk? Or has it allways been *.ntrk for data and *.trk for batch plays? With different versions of *.ntrk along the way.

Which would be another reason why old version dont play anymore.. not becuse the FM changed.. but because the format of the *.ntrk changed

Do old files even play? that is will they play but things are just wacky.. Or do they not even start to play?

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diomedes33
08-27-2004, 12:04 AM
Ok forgot about that. When you start recording then stop recording like you did it saves it as a ntrk.

If you exit the mission then save the track it will save it in this format. This was about 3 sec flight at 1000m with no control inputs.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
[MAIN]
MAP Smolensk/load.ini
TIME 12.00
CloudType 0
CloudHeight 1000.0
player g0100
army 2
playerNum 0
[Wing]
g0100
[g0100]
Planes 1
Skill 1
Class air.FW_190D9
Fuel 100
weapons default
numberOn0 1
[g0100_Way]
NORMFLY 100685.25 90094.67 1000 300.0
NORMFLY 121469.39 98416.33 1000 300.0
NORMFLY 81890.91 77775.84 1000 300.0
NORMFLY 78171.43 75102.40 1000 300.0
LANDING 78172.26 74938.10 0 0.0
[Bridge]
[House]
[NStationary]
[$$$record]
110
10212863
500.0
300.0
500.0
2.5
0.0
50
3
-5076053404318919166
0 212 1 258 g01000
0 212 0 0
0 278 1 0
0 278 0 0
0 520 1 0
0 520 0 0
0 3 0 0
0 3 0 0
0 4 0 0
0 4 0 0
0 9 4 0
0 9 4 0
0 5 0 0
0 5 0 0
99 4 -1 0
0 4 -1 0
0 4 0 0
0 4 0 0
0 4 -1 0
0 4 -1 0
0 4 0 0
0 4 0 0
0 4 -1 0
0 4 -1 0
0 4 0 0
0 4 0 0
0 4 -1 0
0 4 -1 0
200 4 0 0
0 4 0 0
100 4 -1 0
0 4 -1 0
100 4 0 0
0 4 0 0
0 4 -1 0
0 4 -1 0
0 4 0 0
0 4 0 0
100 4 -1 0
0 4 -1 0
0 4 0 0
0 4 0 0
1468 261 1 0
81 261 0 0
0 -1 0 0
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you said about the encryption thing makes sense, I was just thinking outloud ...err on screen?


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Tully__
08-27-2004, 04:42 AM
When you exit an offline mission there is a button labelled "Save Track". Pressing that button saves what is commonly referred to as an "offline track" in a file with the .trk extension. This is a record of the mission file and the player's control inputs. There is no positional information at all except the starting positions (the mission file) and for proper playback the flight models must be identical to those used in the recording and the control inputs must all be played back at exactly the time they were recorded. It is because of this that attempting to play back on a different patch version or even on a computer that is prone to pauses during missions will pretty much always result in the mission not playing back correctly.

Using the "quick record" feature during a mission or using the "start recording" button on the menu that appears when you press the ESC key records a file with extension .ntrk. This file contains position and timing information for all objects in the mission. In addition to being in binary, it is encrypted. If it were not encrypted it would be of no use to the developers as a means of working out how cheats might be done and it would be of no use to online ladder competitions as a means of resolving disputes about what really happened in matches. These are anong the reasons the community asked for this feature and among the reasons that it was added, so I very much doubt there'll be any clue released about how to decode .ntrk files.

=================================================


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Salut
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ASH at S-MART
08-27-2004, 09:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
Ok forgot about that. When you start recording then stop recording like you did it saves it as a ntrk.

If you exit the mission then save the track it will save it in this format. This was about 3 sec flight at 1000m with no control inputs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah... Ok.. Thanks! I didnt know that!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
What you said about the encryption thing makes sense, I was just thinking outloud ...err on screen?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes.. still makes sense to me.. But it looks like Tully said it is encrypted.. So you were right! Darnit! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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ASH at S-MART
08-27-2004, 09:40 AM
el bump

[This message was edited by ASH at S-MART on Fri August 27 2004 at 07:21 PM.]