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View Full Version : I think the next ac needs new free running



JCearlyyears
06-19-2012, 06:25 PM
Pretty much what it says in the title. The current free running in place(AC1-R) isn't quite realistic and I think reworking it is a good way to make the game feel more fresh. Tree running is a big step up and they've also added new things in the cities but I think it needs to be reworked to be more realistic and also more difficult and still look cool or cooler. I think it is unrealistic as it is in ac1-r because you make impossible jumps and then catch on to things and don't fall. I have an example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G43h7I-K_mc&feature=player_detailpage I don't want this thread to be an argument over if it is realistic or not. Some of it is, some isn't. What is shown in that video is unrealistic there's no denying it, so we should figure out ways to make the free running more fun, difficult, and realistic. I'm actually fine with the way it is now, but I'd love to see the free running reworked to be all around better. I currently don't know how it should be done, so for now I have nothing. Maybe you can come up with something and I'll think of something to either add onto it or something different, whatever happens happens.

Turul.
06-19-2012, 06:42 PM
all they'd need to do is make sure you cant just grab onto something after falling 100 feet

after a certain height fallen they should jsut make it where you can't grab something.

i dont think anything in AC3 will be at that height.

so i dont think it will be as much of a problem

JCearlyyears
06-19-2012, 06:49 PM
It's a start. I think they should integrate stealth and combat into free running.

rileypoole1234
06-19-2012, 06:52 PM
AC3 is throwing everything away and redoing it completely, including free running.

We did sort of see combat in free running when Connor grabbed the musket while running, and killed the guard while running.

The running looks all around more realistic in AC3, so I don't think there's need to worry.

JCearlyyears
06-19-2012, 06:57 PM
Yeah no worries. I don't think there is any reason to worry, it looks great. I think it would be good if it was re done though to be better.

Sushiglutton
06-19-2012, 07:05 PM
I think the freerunning is excellent and the new tree prakour looks awesome. I'm not thirlled about making it difficult as I think it should feel like second nature and smooth. U are moving around a ton so making it frustrating would be a bad move. Would be nice if they added more stuff like the elevator (which I noticed was in the Boston demo) to spice it up a bit. About the specific move in that vid: It's obv really unrealistic. However I like it. Thing is when you fall u hold on to that grab button and pray and sometimes it works. I think it's a thrilling feeling. The parkour is the strongest feature in the franchise imo. Would be madness to make any big changes to it.

Assassin_M
06-19-2012, 07:08 PM
Nah, I like it the way it is..

JCearlyyears
06-19-2012, 07:18 PM
I don't exactly want it to be difficult, but I want it to feel like it has more depth and takes some level of skill to accomplish more complicated actions. I'm certainly one for options so I think it would be good if you can choose to do the more complicated things. Sometimes major changes seem horrible and crazy at first but if they are done right then it is fine. I remember when I was horribly angered when they changed the combat for ac3 but now I like it and think it is a good change, though I've not played it, I can't say for sure that I like it but it looks fun to me. I always loved how the free running in ac always seemed so easy and natural, but I think that there should be added levels of difficulty for more depth.

Sushiglutton
06-19-2012, 07:30 PM
I don't exactly want it to be difficult, but I want it to feel like it has more depth and takes some level of skill to accomplish more complicated actions. I'm certainly one for options so I think it would be good if you can choose to do the more complicated things. Sometimes major changes seem horrible and crazy at first but if they are done right then it is fine. I remember when I was horribly angered when they changed the combat for ac3 but now I like it and think it is a good change, though I've not played it, I can't say for sure that I like it but it looks fun to me. I always loved how the free running in ac always seemed so easy and natural, but I think that there should be added levels of difficulty for more depth.

I def can see what you mean, it's is a little shallow. For me it's fine for the open world though. But I do want them to add more challenge to the tombs that have gotten a little stale for me. In AC2 it was the coolest addition for me, now their on the rails gameplay is not that cool anymore. Perhaps adding moving objects of some kind that required timing?

Btw they have added the slide move. It wasn't really demonstrated in the demo, so I don't know how it will be used. I think I read somewhere though that free-running is going to be a bit more horizontal this time. So maybe more focused on momentum and speed, and less on climbing, and you need to time slides etc to keep it going?

JCearlyyears
06-19-2012, 07:43 PM
Haha temple run. Just me? Okay, haha. I was thinking that there should be more timing involved and that idea about more moving objects seems good. I really want the free running to connect more into the combat and the stealth.

Turul.
06-19-2012, 07:52 PM
I was happy when they finally implemented crouching (when you walk)

i always felt silly slowly walking upright on rooftops when i was about to assassinate a roof guard

JCearlyyears
06-19-2012, 08:04 PM
True. I hope they have done a lot with stealth.

Sushiglutton
06-19-2012, 08:18 PM
AC may be the only stealth game I've played that doesn't let you crouch. It's not really needed since u either hide hanging from rooftops, or by blending in crowds. Since neither of those techniques work in the wild I guess they felt obligated to do something new. Also you can now take corner cover in a sticky way and do takedowns from that postition. But I agree they'll do a lot more for stealth I hope. Primarily improving the AI (like making enemies react to gunshots, remember for more than ten seconds that there comrade is lying dead right next to them and so on).

JCearlyyears
06-19-2012, 08:26 PM
Don't you think that the combat, the free running and stealth should all be integrated?

Acrimonious_Nin
06-19-2012, 08:31 PM
Hahah OMG that was the best assassination I have ever seen :D. I believe that it is fine just the way it is -__-

JCearlyyears
06-19-2012, 08:37 PM
Well of course it's fine just the way it is, but the thought of it being BETTER... it can be better.

Sushiglutton
06-19-2012, 09:16 PM
Don't you think that the combat, the free running and stealth should all be integrated?

But isn't that what they are doing to some extent? I mean removing the lock-on mechanic gives a smoother transition to combat. And the running assassinations that let's u keep moving while killing.

tsc0308
06-19-2012, 09:32 PM
Look to Mirrors Edge to see how to make free running a challenge. All you really have to do in AC is hold down the button combo and runs forwards.

I'm all for making it challenging, just as long as it feels smooth. AC's freerunning has always felt a little... cartoony....

JCearlyyears
06-19-2012, 10:28 PM
I think that if we had a more acrobatic assassin, it would be easier to have more integration between the combat, parkour and stealth which from now on I will call C,P,S. These are the three pillars of assassin's creed and it would make sense to have more integration between them. I think that the next assassin needs their own special kind of hidden blade. Altair had his own, then the mechanism changed and Ezio had his own with the different mechanism and the hook blade, now Connor has his pivoting hidden blade and I think the next assassin should have hidden blades on their feet and some other addition that I don't yet know of. I think it should some how aid in all three of the C,P,S. So far I've thought of a wire of some sort that connects from one bracer to the other that extends out of one and when you are done it disconnects and retracts. It can be used for strangling which is silent and also can be used while hanging, so maybe you can hang from a tree, and as an unsuspecting victim walks beneath, you snatch 'em up and lay their body across a branch as to hide them in a tree. It's basically fiber wire from hitman. It doesn't exactly aid in parkour so I kinda missed the point of the thread... oh well. I'll think of something that can integrate all 3.

JumpInTheFire13
06-20-2012, 12:15 AM
The slide move is shown at 5:06 in this video.
Also, at 4:50, we see that Connor can actually run on skinny, sloped surfaces normally. I hate how Ezio always leaped when he was running on things like the railings of stairs. I also hope that Connor will run up walls more realistically. Taking 4 steps up a wall, really? In reality, you can only take 1 or 2 steps when running up a wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZrklEy9ohQ

JCearlyyears
06-20-2012, 12:29 AM
I was hoping we could do something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GvzHv6nnhDY
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWHgXuzOvQI&feature=player_detailpage

JumpInTheFire13
06-20-2012, 12:58 AM
The thing in the first video was cool, but it might make the game feel too Prince of Persia-ish. And the thing in the second video was also cool, but it would take to long if you were try to escape guards. Maybe it could be used to quietly sneak up or down to where a guard is standing.

JCearlyyears
06-20-2012, 01:55 AM
I personally don't mind if it feels prince of persiaish and the second video was something for stealth. I think you should be able to somehow jump on someone's shoulders and kill them. I think you should be able to use enemies as steps if you know what I mean. For example, there are two buildings that are some distance apart, too far apart to jump across, but almost there so you jump and there is a person between the buildings so you use them as a step to get across to the other building. You wouldn't be able to do it to more than one or two people because people tend to move when they see a jumping hoodlum steppin' on people. Also, if they see you coming, you wont likely be able to step on them. It can also be used for combat. Instead of using the person as a step and taking the next jump, you drop onto their shoulders and kill them with whatever weapon you are using. I think you should be able to jump from wall to wall and you can also do this on a person and a wall instead of a wall and a wall, but people aren't that tall so you wouldn't be able to do too much jumping. I wish the free running was more immersive. I'm thinking out loud, most of it probably seems ridiculous.

xXMrGR1NCHXx
06-20-2012, 02:01 AM
Looking for better is great, but appreciate what has been given to us in AC3, Connor is basically free running all of the time. That's a huge step up from ol' Ezio.

JCearlyyears
06-20-2012, 02:03 AM
I appreciate ac3, it looks amazing.

SixKeys
06-20-2012, 02:04 AM
I think the freerunning is fine as it is, especially with the new animations like crouching in AC3. The only thing I would maybe like to see changed is how you can fall from 100 feet and grab on to something without ripping your arm off. In AC1 it took a while for Alta´r to learn this move and it was more realistic. I don't care for PoP-style wallrunning, it feels to Matrix-like for this series.

JCearlyyears
06-20-2012, 02:08 AM
Yeah, all the demonstrations shown so far look really good, I'm impressed with ac's progress.

naran6142
06-20-2012, 03:16 AM
just blame the unrealistic stuff on the animus....

its easier that way :p

Calvarok
06-20-2012, 03:33 AM
I really don't think that they need a free-running system that controls entirely different. AC3 is a huge redesign of the original one, not just in terms of speed and look, but mechanically too, what with the vaults and ability to move through cramped or narrow spaces, and climb on almost all natural things. I think they need to keep adding new moves, fluidity, and usability to this system. Allow for more control and accuracy without actually changing the way it works.

Jexx21
06-20-2012, 03:42 AM
I think that a lot of the things (like falling from great distances and surviving, and being able to grab a ledge after falling) are influenced by the fact that the Assassins we play usually have a high concentration of TWCB blood.

Apart from that, I would love more realistic parkour. I wish more games would incorporate it honestly, as it's practically to running as running is to walking; a faster way of getting around.

(I would love it if TES would incorporate it. Stealth parkour go!)

JumpInTheFire13
06-20-2012, 04:14 AM
I think that a lot of the things (like falling from great distances and surviving, and being able to grab a ledge after falling) are influenced by the fact that the Assassins we play usually have a high concentration of TWCB blood.

Apart from that, I would love more realistic parkour. I wish more games would incorporate it honestly, as it's practically to running as running is to walking; a faster way of getting around.

(I would love it if TES would incorporate it. Stealth parkour go!)
What's TES again? I can't remember

Jexx21
06-20-2012, 04:16 AM
The Elder Scrolls.

I.E. Skyrim

(so many people call it 'The Skyrim Series' and it pisses me off)

JumpInTheFire13
06-20-2012, 04:40 AM
The Elder Scrolls.

I.E. Skyrim

(so many people call it 'The Skyrim Series' and it pisses me off)
Yeah I know what it is now, I just don't own any so I don't follow it avidly. But I know what most of them are... Skyrim, Oblivion, okay nevermind I can't remember hahaha

Calvarok
06-20-2012, 06:27 AM
skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, and Arena are the only ones I remember.

Calvarok
06-20-2012, 06:31 AM
I think that a lot of the things (like falling from great distances and surviving, and being able to grab a ledge after falling) are influenced by the fact that the Assassins we play usually have a high concentration of TWCB blood.

Apart from that, I would love more realistic parkour. I wish more games would incorporate it honestly, as it's practically to running as running is to walking; a faster way of getting around.

(I would love it if TES would incorporate it. Stealth parkour go!)
I refuse to believe that any of the more ridiculous things are supposed to be actual abilities. It's the animus, and if you can do it as Desmond, it's because the game is still a game. If it's shown in a cutscene, however, it's canon.

doogsy91
06-20-2012, 10:01 AM
I think they should remove the ability to jump when there's nothing to jump onto. This would save so much frustration when you go to jump onto a ledge or something but your thumbstick is half a degree off to one side, sending your assassin soaring off the side of a building or tower. Remember jumping from pole to pole in the port in Acre? If you didn't line the camera and your thumbstick up perfectly, Altair would jump to his watery death. I was disappointed to see that it is in the ACIII demo because it serves absolutely no purpose.

LightRey
06-20-2012, 01:23 PM
Why do people keep forgetting that this is inside the Animus? It allows for unrealistic events as long as they didn't happen that way for the ancestor. Desmond can still screw around with the mechanics as long as it's not so absurd that it desynchs him.

Btw, this isn't so much unrealistic freerunning as it is unrealistic physics.

De Filosoof
06-20-2012, 02:01 PM
Why do people keep forgetting that this is inside the Animus? It allows for unrealistic events as long as they didn't happen that way for the ancestor. Desmond can still screw around with the mechanics as long as it's not so absurd that it desynchs him.

Btw, this isn't so much unrealistic freerunning as it is unrealistic physics.

You're forgetting one thing.
It's even more unrealistic when you're outside the animus (playing as Desmond) because you can jump skyhigh from a building without any consequences.
So what about that? It pretty much screws up your theory about the animus. The freerunning physics from Desmond and the ancestor in the animus are the same.

NOLA_Assassin
06-20-2012, 02:38 PM
Nah, I like it the way it is..

This!

I like that they don't beat you over the head with the realism. I'm all for realism but there should be limitations

NOLA_Assassin
06-20-2012, 02:40 PM
The Elder Scrolls.

I.E. Skyrim

(so many people call it 'The Skyrim Series' and it pisses me off)

Yeah, it's cause they never played Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfel, etc....

LightRey
06-20-2012, 02:43 PM
You're forgetting one thing.
It's even more unrealistic when you're outside the animus (playing as Desmond) because you can jump skyhigh from a building without any consequences.
So what about that? It pretty much screws up your theory about the animus. The freerunning physics from Desmond and the ancestor in the animus are the same.
It has nothing to do with theory. It's simply unrealistic with Desmond because it's a friggin game. The difference with the Animus thing is that it's more excusable. In the end it's just in there because it's a game and they're not going to go to extreme lengths just for some ridiculous nitpicking regarding realism.

For some reason this trend has started to make everything overly realistic. I know you want games to be immersive, but this isn't exactly a high priority issue and really if you play normally this won't get in the way of how immersive the experience is.

JCearlyyears
06-20-2012, 03:18 PM
I made this thread just because it seems like ubisoft is trying to find ways to make ac more fresh so I thought it would be a good idea to redo the free running to make it better. I think parkour looks kinda cool and I'd love to see the assassin doing cool parkour stuff. It certainly isn't a high priority problem but it would be good if the C,P,S were all better and more integrated. Just my opinion.

LightRey
06-20-2012, 03:29 PM
I made this thread just because it seems like ubisoft is trying to find ways to make ac more fresh so I thought it would be a good idea to redo the free running to make it better. I think parkour looks kinda cool and I'd love to see the assassin doing cool parkour stuff. It certainly isn't a high priority problem but it would be good if the C,P,S were all better and more integrated. Just my opinion.
Haven't you seen the videos? They've already redone the freerunning. You shouldn't be posting this as an idea, you should be posting this as an "omg it looks like... etc. etc.".

JCearlyyears
06-20-2012, 03:40 PM
Well, yeah, it looks great, they've added a lot. I'm just saying they should add more. I haven't played the game so I can't say much about it, but it really does look amazing, I'm impressed. I've been mostly judging the C,P,S based on ac1-r saying that it needs to be better with stealth and free running, and if they could bring it all together well, it would make the game better. I haven't actually played ac3 so I can't really talk about it much but so far they have added to the C,P,S and it looks good. What if the next AC game didn't improve on anything because everything from before was fine as it was? I would say that the series would eventually be labeled as stale, which is why I'm saying that for the next assassin, add a lot to the C,P,S and integrate them more.

Evenesque
06-20-2012, 03:47 PM
Disagree.

JCearlyyears
06-20-2012, 04:13 PM
About which part?

tarrero
06-20-2012, 04:23 PM
The mechanics look way better on AC3, check out the way Connor runs, vastly improved.

JCearlyyears
06-20-2012, 04:25 PM
Does he run faster than Ezio? I think it looks like it.

JumpInTheFire13
06-21-2012, 02:56 AM
Does he run faster than Ezio? I think it looks like it.
It definitely looks like it. I love the way Connor runs. I also like the way he slams peoples heads onto pitch forks :)

JCearlyyears
06-21-2012, 02:24 PM
I think we all do.
I was thinking about where the next ac should be and so far it has been in europe/asia and NA, and I think it should go somewhere else. I'm not sure if India would be best, or somewhere in eastern Asia. That's just my opinion on where it should go. I also think that France and maybe somewhere else in Europe would be fun. I think it should go somewhere with interesting history, weapons, and combat. Altair and Ezio could fist fight, but they were kinda bad at it. I wish we could play as someone who really knows how to fight well and looks cool while doing it.

JumpInTheFire13
06-22-2012, 02:17 AM
I think we all do.
I was thinking about where the next ac should be and so far it has been in europe/asia and NA, and I think it should go somewhere else. I'm not sure if India would be best, or somewhere in eastern Asia. That's just my opinion on where it should go. I also think that France and maybe somewhere else in Europe would be fun. I think it should go somewhere with interesting history, weapons, and combat. Altair and Ezio could fist fight, but they were kinda bad at it. I wish we could play as someone who really knows how to fight well and looks cool while doing it.
The thing you said about Asia just got me thinking about a part in Uncharted 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SffZKv_H64o&feature=channel&list=UL
A setting like this would be kinda cool for AC. Or at least a lair/tomb.

WolfTemplar94
06-23-2012, 05:45 PM
On the new locations thing, I want a mountainous area, to allow for mountain climbing :3

On the new free-running features, I hope we get a really theatrical assassin eventually, with acrobatic skills to jump around etc.

JCearlyyears
06-23-2012, 05:54 PM
I'm hoping for more acrobatics. I also think that the combat needs to get better. The game is fine with weapons but to me it feels bland when unarmed(it feels bland combat wise) and I think that it would be great if the next assassin was really good at fighting with or without weapons and also the enemies should be really good at fighting and should be more aggressive. I think that for difficulty settings, they should make the enemies much more aggressive so we will actually feel more of what it's like to be in a fight surrounded by many enemies. Even a few enemies is very dangerous. I'm afraid to make a certain comment but it's true so I guess it's not that messed up but still... I don't want to say.

Sushiglutton
06-23-2012, 06:13 PM
I finally got my hands on Mirror's Edge and have been playing it like mad the last few day. I'm totally in love with it :)! Now AC is the more polished game with less anoyances and a larger scope, but there are still features from ME that would be nice for sure. First the idea that u can keep momentum by correctly stringing together moves. I know AC has the new slide move, so hopefully we see some of that. Sideway wallrunning should be added. And you should be able to string together jumps and wallruns if you have enough momentum. This would support more creative ways to move from A to B. Timing the roll when u land is also exciting. Finally the way you can break through glass/doors is also sweet. The running assassinatons are in that direction. Ubi has also said that they want you to feel like always in motion, so Im very optimistic.

Oh and Ubi please buy ME from EA and make the sequel :)!

Sushiglutton
06-23-2012, 06:21 PM
I'm hoping for more acrobatics. I also think that the combat needs to get better. The game is fine with weapons but to me it feels bland when unarmed(it feels bland combat wise) and I think that it would be great if the next assassin was really good at fighting with or without weapons and also the enemies should be really good at fighting and should be more aggressive. I think that for difficulty settings, they should make the enemies much more aggressive so we will actually feel more of what it's like to be in a fight surrounded by many enemies. Even a few enemies is very dangerous. I'm afraid to make a certain comment but it's true so I guess it's not that messed up but still... I don't want to say.

Loomer asked Alex about more aggresive enemies and I must say I agree with his answer. It would be kind of a mess in practice. Personally I don't need the combat to be that hard. Varied in a meanigful way (aka each move has its uses), smooth, responsive, fair, stylish that's what I want (and that would be a huge step from earlier games imo). And there's actually a fairly decent chance that's what we'll get :)!

JCearlyyears
06-23-2012, 06:33 PM
I know it would be a mess in practice but it would be more realistic. I think that if they put in human shields, dodging, ducking/ jumping over weapons(not every weapon of course, that would look silly) and environmental kills, it would be easier to have large fights that are aggressive. I think mirror's edge is fun, and it's an okay game but the free running in my opinion isn't that fluid partly because of having to press buttons a lot to do things.