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View Full Version : We need a new combat system. !!!!!!!!!!! small idea.



ac3.no1
06-14-2012, 08:34 PM
Hello every one.

After watching the market place gameplay and the demo i feel that the combat system is the exact same.

I don't know about you guys but for me i feel it is too repetitive. If you guys have ideas please leave them.

My idea would be to add combos mid fight. For instance.

Connor attacks a red coat and then the player has to press a sequence of buttons to continue the awesome killing. It isn't much of a change, but its still a change.

I know i will receive hate so... go ahead.

Assassin_M
06-14-2012, 08:37 PM
No one will hate on you;)
its an Opinion that deserves to be discussed..
I just want Arkham City`s Hand-to-hand system and I`ll be a happy player..

playassassins1
06-14-2012, 08:38 PM
Yeah, could be possible.

I suggest we wait until we see more things on combat though.

ac3.no1
06-14-2012, 08:43 PM
I am not sure if E3 is finished yet but usually after E3 we get 3 more vids and a demo. The game is beautiful, absolutely beautiful but i don't want it to be spoiled by over repetitiveness. Also hopefully they have added thousands of side quests, one i have finished the main story i want something to do for the next year.

MT4K
06-14-2012, 09:04 PM
I am not sure if E3 is finished yet but usually after E3 we get 3 more vids and a demo. The game is beautiful, absolutely beautiful but i don't want it to be spoiled by over repetitiveness. Also hopefully they have added thousands of side quests, one i have finished the main story i want something to do for the next year.

Speakign of sidequests. I hope there are tons of random generated ones just to give us stuff to constantly do. even if they are the same quests we did a few hours previously. sometimes it could still be fun to go out hunting again for meat for somebody else.

Evenesque
06-14-2012, 09:12 PM
This is what I said in a thread that died a few days ago. I'm not going to edit it, but I will disclaimer it. It's not directed specifically at the OP's opinion, I'm just posting it because it's the best way I have of expressing my own opinion of the game's combat. Don't take this personally, it was originally written to a different audience.


"People don't seem to understand the concept behind this game, or the franchise. Assassins aren't supposed to sit there and fight a guy in the middle of the street like it's a duel. Sorry, you aren't. That's an Ezio fantasy before he became an assassin, when he was an Italian renaissance 20-something. I'm sorry, but you don't understand the basic concept of an assassin if you think you're supposed to get in a scrap with some guys who are SEVERELY underclassed just by you being in their vicinity. I don't know if you've all noticed, but the Assassins we get to play these games as are not newcomers. They're top tier, master assassins, one of them founded an entire new style of Assassin order that incorporated brotherhoods aiding and abetting a master assassin in the field. They don't **** around people. Seals don't train to get into firefights and skirmishes where they take pot-shots until the guy starves to death. You're basically complaining that a Navy SEAL isn't employing the fighting tactics of an Army grunt. They get trained to end the fight as quickly as possible, but more importantly, to make sure a fight never happens. Complaining that, as an assassin, your primary means of battling someone is to kill them as quickly is possible is like arguing that guns make a SEALS job too easy.

Assassins work the same way. They're creatures of opportunity. They strike to kill, they don't strike to dance. You aren't supposed to kill a guy, then have to fight his 17 friends because you were sloppy enough to do it in a market square and spend 15 minutes fighting for your life. That's a ****ty assassin. You're supposed to kill the guy, then dispatch his enforcers in one, fluid movement, so as to make sure you don't have any opposition. That's the whole point behind chain kills and streaks and counters. This isn't a game where you're supposed to get into Dark Souls style fights. Your purpose on the battlefield is to END the battle, not participate in it. Ubi is showing this to you more frequently than they should have to. Just watch the latest trailer. Connor isn't trained to line up and use a musket. He's trained to walk into a firefight, completely ignore it, and kill the head of the other side. That's what you do the ENTIRE GAME.

People who want a combat system that isn't so 'easy' don't seem to understand that this game never has been and never will be about straight up fighting difficulty between you and some fool wearing a skirt and brandishing a woodcutting axe. It's about setting a mark, casing a fort, climbing whatever you have to to get the vantage point, and then swooping in like an eagle to end the mark in 1 strike. The whole philosophy behind every single assassin in this universe is 1 chance, 1 kill. Back when AC1 was released they told us Altair was modeled after an eagle. Eagles don't fight ****, people. They spend their time waiting, looking, and waiting some more. When they see a target, they throw everything they have into one swoop, kill it, and take off. It's one movement. It's fluid, it's efficient, and they make **** sure it's effective. The same concept has been applied to the assassins from day one.

This philosophy was least apparent in AC1. Whether or not it was the 'best combat' so far in the series is your own subjective opinion. It was the least analogous to what the Assassins are trying to be. Each installment has moved the combat closer to what the franchise has been aiming to put them as. If that's not what you want, you're pretty SOL then, because Ubi owns this IP and has every right to refine the combat system into what they told us it should have been from day one. You started out as a clunky turtle man in a glorified priest outfit who's only way out of a fight was either running, or getting hit until you saw a very rough opening. That evolved into waiting until you have a chance to completely turn the battle the other direction and keep hacking away. That evolved into not having to battle at all, and just winding your way through your challengers after having built up enough momentum to finish a fight. That, in turn, has evolved into this; using your momentum to literally kill on the run and make yourself as elusive a target as possible. AC3's combat system us what the franchise has been aiming for since the games started, and personally I applaud them for maintaining such a consistent evolutionary approach to how their combat works, especially considering how many hands have been in charge of it. Truthfully, if you think about it, you should be ecstatic that the games you play to enjoy have stayed as similar as they have, because it could have taken a turn as sharp as the splinter cell franchise. Who knows what you would get to ***** about if that had happened.

The combat has never been about mass market appeal. It's been about moving the style of the player's strategy towards that of the concept they're moulded on. Ubi's been moving it toward that steadily and this is as close as they've gotten so far. What you've seen, to this point, is a developer who's played the demo countless times, so he's obviously really good at it. Hutchinson told us straight up that the fights aren't about winning or losing. They're about mastering how to do it skillfully, in one movement, and making it efficient while looking as badass as possible. That's the direction they've been going in since day one.

Accept it, move on, and try, for god's sake, to enjoy it for the achievement that it is, not the one that you disagree with because you've played the games and feel like that makes your opinion matter more than the people who's lives revolve around the production of this game."

Newly formed TL;DR: Ubi has a choice with AC3's combat, and the franchise as a whole. Make the combat hard in a way that provides considerably more challenge than the current system, and breaking their philosophy of fluid, deathstroke assassins, or keeping it as it is, and refining it so the player can fly through enemies as Ubi believes their assassins should. From what I see, they've always tried the latter philosophy, and I don't think they see a reason to change it to the first option any time soon.

Fury074ubi
06-14-2012, 09:40 PM
Hello every one.

After watching the market place gameplay and the demo i feel that the combat system is the exact same.

I don't know about you guys but for me i feel it is too repetitive. If you guys have ideas please leave them.

My idea would be to add combos mid fight. For instance.

Connor attacks a red coat and then the player has to press a sequence of buttons to continue the awesome killing. It isn't much of a change, but its still a change.

I know i will receive hate so... go ahead.

Or you could have it like in Metal Gear Peacewalker, where you just press one button to continue the multiple kill combo.

xXMrGR1NCHXx
06-14-2012, 10:06 PM
Technically AC3 is introducing a big change in combat, the game is much more fluent. You'll be duel wielding weapons, assassinating while sprinting, grabbing weapons off of racks on the run. Ubisoft is really pushing the "your always moving" idea. You can also hide around corners and wait for a guard to come close enough and then assassinate him. Just watch the gameplay demos and trailers so far to see this.

ac3.no1
06-14-2012, 10:19 PM
Its good there making it more fluent but we are talking about when ya press RT and X and you can kill 10000 people

MT4K
06-14-2012, 10:29 PM
Its good there making it more fluent but we are talking about when ya press RT and X and you can kill 10000 people

Well from my understanding you can no longer stand there and block every attack. In fact i think they removed the "blocking" altogether so that you have to either counter/dodge or get a whack on the head. So without the ability to just block all the time. it should increase the tension at least and make it more exciting.

BBALive
06-14-2012, 10:51 PM
Hello every one.

After watching the market place gameplay and the demo i feel that the combat system is the exact same.

I don't know about you guys but for me i feel it is too repetitive. If you guys have ideas please leave them.

My idea would be to add combos mid fight. For instance.

Connor attacks a red coat and then the player has to press a sequence of buttons to continue the awesome killing. It isn't much of a change, but its still a change.

I know i will receive hate so... go ahead.

So, a Quick-Time Event? No.

To be fair, the combat system is different, and you can see the changes in action. Pay more attention.

Jexx21
06-14-2012, 10:53 PM
I don't like your idea, and the combat system looks good.

Jamison_J_B
06-15-2012, 03:11 AM
Well from my understanding you can no longer stand there and block every attack. In fact i think they removed the "blocking" altogether so that you have to either counter/dodge or get a whack on the head. So without the ability to just block all the time. it should increase the tension at least and make it more exciting.

To be honest, I don't think dodge is in their neither. I was watching the boston demo, and at no point, when Connor was fighting the redcoats, did dodge come up on the button list. I know Ubi wants a attack fluid gameplay for AC3, but atleast give us the ability to dodge. I was bit disturbed when I came to this realization. Does anyone have info that can contradict this?

Calvarok
06-15-2012, 03:20 AM
why do people say fluent instead of fluid?

ProletariatPleb
06-15-2012, 04:29 AM
We do not have a block button this time around.

Other than that:
"Hey Assassins,
The Open Conflict fight you see in the demo was designed to demonstrate speed, agility, new animations, and overall slickness and is not meant to show off combat difficulty.
ACIII has more archetypes than previous AC titles that dynamically adjust to your behaviour, i.e. higher notoriety, tougher archetypes and more of them. Remember that you are fighting an organized, very capable military outfit, and they will act accordingly."

Azurefeatherfly
06-15-2012, 04:48 AM
To be honest, I don't think dodge is in their neither. I was watching the boston demo, and at no point, when Connor was fighting the redcoats, did dodge come up on the button list. I know Ubi wants a attack fluid gameplay for AC3, but atleast give us the ability to dodge. I was bit disturbed when I came to this realization. Does anyone have info that can contradict this?

In the Frontier demo, he did dodge the wolf that was going pounce right on top of him while the other two were circling him.

Evenesque
06-15-2012, 04:49 AM
In the Frontier demo, he did dodge the wolf that was going pounce right on top of him while the other two were circling him.

That is true, and Hutchinson said the combat controls for animals are identical to humans....

ProletariatPleb
06-15-2012, 04:54 AM
I have read an Interview, I don't remember which one I'll look for it, anyway it said that now we get a window where we decide if we want to counter or throw the enemy and we CAN dodge according to the interview.

Calvarok
06-15-2012, 04:57 AM
Yes, when you counter time slows down and you can choose if you want to throw or kill. Nice for people who want to defend themselves in a non-lethal way. I think people are confused as to what it means to have a new combat system. It doesn't mean every established mechanic is gone, it's just been rebuilt, differently, and new things have been added. Just like how there's still blending with the crowd, but the way it works is different. It's a redesign of the system.

ProletariatPleb
06-15-2012, 05:01 AM
Found it, have a read if you haven't already.
http://www.oxm.co.uk/40368/features/assassins-creed-3-how-ubisofts-fixing-the-combat/?page=1

Basically says, if you press the same button that we will use to create a 'counter/throw/dodge' window, we will dodge.

Mr_Shade
06-15-2012, 10:35 AM
Well there are a few new things in combat..


Hey Assassins,

The Open Conflict fight you see in the demo was designed to demonstrate speed, agility, new animations, and overall slickness and is not meant to show off combat difficulty.

ACIII has more archetypes than previous AC titles that dynamically adjust to your behaviour, i.e. higher notoriety, tougher archetypes and more of them. Remember that you are fighting an organized, very capable military outfit, and they will act accordingly.

So
I wouldn't judge the game from the demo, since it's made to look easy, to show the new animations, not demostrate the deep combat system.

Sushiglutton
06-15-2012, 11:09 AM
Well there are a few new things in combat..


So
I wouldn't judge the game from the demo, since it's made to look easy, to show the new animations, not demostrate the deep combat system.

Then show us something that does :cool:!

Mr_Shade
06-15-2012, 11:15 AM
Then show us something that does :cool:!
The E3 footage is all of the same build, so it may be some time before we see new footage.

I would keep an eye in the ACIII site, the com Devs are writing an indepth feature about combat, which hopefully will be posted sometime soon ;)

itsamea-mario
06-15-2012, 11:22 AM
Then show us something that does :cool:!

Stop using that figging :cool: face! it is seriously annoying ffs!!

grrrrrrr....


...that is all.

Sushiglutton
06-15-2012, 01:22 PM
The E3 footage is all of the same build, so it may be some time before we see new footage.

I would keep an eye in the ACIII site, the com Devs are writing an indepth feature about combat, which hopefully will be posted sometime soon ;)

Awesome I will! Please tell them to hurry because I have to know now! If they can just fix the combat system this franchise would be perfect!
...
oh and :cool:

obliviondoll
06-15-2012, 08:37 PM
From what we know so far, initiating the "counter" action is the "dodge" function - you avoid the enemy's strike, and from there, have the option of just dodging (no button press, hence the lack of prompt for it), or a couple of different attack options, each of which will have varying results on different enemies.

Sounds like a HUGE change from the previous games. You say that you could just "spam counters" (you listed XBox controls instead of saying "counter" but you get the point), but in the first game, that wasn't entirely true. If you countered too late, your opponent would strike your guard before you counter, and the attack would be deflected. You don't get hurt, but you don't hurt them either. If you countered too early, you were locked into an animation for longer than the counter would be effective, so a delayed attack would still hit you normally. Also, while guarding, you COULD be knocked out of your defense by a guard-break attack - the only problem being that the AI was too braindead to actually capitalise on that fact and follow up with an attack while you're unable to defend. In AC2, they removed the guard-break attack, and also made it so you could "interrupt" the animation that got you hit when you screwed up in the first game. In ACB and ACR, they replaced the guard-break with a kick that enemies never used, basically continuing the destruction of the already-ruined balance the original game's combat system had. With AC3, keeping the same system with the new weapons and setting couldn't have worked, so it's good that they're redesigning it so heavily.

In AC3, there's no permanent block button, so there's more of a penalty for mis-timing the "counter" - which, as mentioned, sounds like it's a LEAD-IN to the counter system, not an actual counter in its own right.

scout455
06-15-2012, 10:20 PM
Technically AC3 is introducing a big change in combat, the game is much more fluent. You'll be duel wielding weapons, assassinating while sprinting, grabbing weapons off of racks on the run. Ubisoft is really pushing the "your always moving" idea. You can also hide around corners and wait for a guard to come close enough and then assassinate him. Just watch the gameplay demos and trailers so far to see this.

In my recent comments b4 ac3 every one including my self that wanted a combat system that was much more fluid and in my opinion I GOT WHAT I WANTED. To me the fighting looks much more fluid and realisticc. Arkham city's combat system I will not deny is awesome but somewhat in realistic. At one point you could fly across the entire map to kick someone in the face. As in ac3 seems more real. So overall the combat in ac3 seems ALLOT more fluid than it has ever been and is not the same at all.