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View Full Version : how about team auto-balance for online?



xTHRUDx
01-08-2004, 02:32 PM
is auto-balance hard to do for FB or BOB? and also a request limit plane type availability.

example; BLUE/RED has only X amount of bomber slots and Y amount of fighter slots available in this online mission

xTHRUDx
01-08-2004, 02:32 PM
is auto-balance hard to do for FB or BOB? and also a request limit plane type availability.

example; BLUE/RED has only X amount of bomber slots and Y amount of fighter slots available in this online mission

DangerForward
01-08-2004, 09:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xTHRUDx:
is auto-balance hard to do for FB or BOB? and also a request limit plane type availability.

example; BLUE/RED has only X amount of bomber slots and Y amount of fighter slots available in this online mission<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bump up to the sky! I fly a lot on GreaterGreen and recently it's generally beeb 2 to 1 blue vs. red or more. When people complained they got called whinners. What a bummer.

DangerForward

xTHRUDx
01-09-2004, 05:00 PM
thanks for the bump, Danger. don't forget to checkout the new stats page
http://209.209.44.31/il2/stats/

JG53_Gutted
01-09-2004, 07:35 PM
no, i only fly focke wulfs or messerschmitts. if i was forced to fly for the other side that would suck nuts. :P

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JG14_Josf
01-09-2004, 09:18 PM
There are problems with Auto balance that include:
Not having the choice of which side to play.
Not being able to be on the same side as your wingman.

America's Army has this feature and when the server is full the odds of getting on the side of your choice is not good.

So far I've tried the Allied planes a few times while logging onto Greatergreen and at least once the side balance shifted to favor red before I landed.

Side unbalance one way or another has yet to be of any consequence to my ability to have fun, but being forced to fly one side or the other will defenitely cause problems for me and if I can't fly wing tactics then forget it.

US380thBG-Tug-
01-12-2004, 10:59 AM
It's been a long time since I've player BF1942, but I recollect an uproar over this very issue in that community as well. Some like it but most don't - basically due to the reasons cited in the above posts. Auto-balance is an especially big hassle for squads, as you can well imagine. Still, I can see the need for balanced sides. It's probably naive for me to hope that folks will be understanding when a squad joins a server and wants to fly together, though this usually equates to a good ole fashion arse kicking for the side of lone wolves.

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RayBanJockey
01-12-2004, 11:09 AM
The simple solution is to make it a console command that the host can turn on or off at any time.

Also the variable of the maximum ammount of differece would be a part of it.


It would affect people who just joined the game.
It would prevent people from switching teams to a team that already had too many.



Pretty much sums it up.

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To anyone who wants to take away my trim on a slider, "From My Cold Dead HANDS (http://www.talonse.com/supergreg.swf)."

JaBo_HH--Gotcha
01-12-2004, 02:02 PM
BUMP !

I'd also like to have something like the ability to limit certain planetypes in numbers for every map.

For example:
Blue is allowed to have
10% of ME262
30% BF109 Series
30% FW 190 Series
30% HE-111 and JU87

This way one could limit certain types of planes for maps and scenarios.
Simple example would be that historically certain now called "UBER" planes were extremely rare....

DangerForward
01-13-2004, 09:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JaBo_HH--Gotcha:
BUMP !

I'd also like to have something like the ability to limit certain planetypes in numbers for every map.

For example:
Blue is allowed to have
10% of ME262
30% BF109 Series
30% FW 190 Series
30% HE-111 and JU87

This way one could limit certain types of planes for maps and scenarios.
Simple example would be that historically certain now called "UBER" planes were extremely rare....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like that idea too. Then maybe we'd see some people flying some of the middle-ground planes like the yak-9 or plain 109G.

DangerForward

LeadSpitter_
01-13-2004, 09:19 AM
Definatly needed. Also limiting the ammount of planetypes on runways, 2-4 me262s who ever gets there first, next runway 109s if they are taken the users will have to fly the he111 or stukas, if you get shotdown you have to select a runway again

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Stalker58
01-14-2004, 07:30 AM
I agree, those limitatios sound to me good, less uber planes and more fun...

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

Zen--
09-21-2004, 12:49 AM
Legit bump for an old but still useful idea.

-Zen-

WOLFMondo
09-21-2004, 01:36 AM
Auto team balance is good! I don't mind flying red or blue. Not sure why people have to unbalance the teams cause they 'exclusivly' fly only blue or red. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Your missing out if you don't fly for both sides.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stalker58:
I agree, those limitatios sound to me good, less uber planes and more fun...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'll end up with people waiting to spawn but only doing so when they see a guy in a plane the want crash, land or get shot down so they can have it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. In other games its called plane camping...soon to come to this sim if plane limitation by type happens.

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JG54_Arnie
09-21-2004, 05:51 AM
Yes please!!! For both features mentioned in this thread. Badly needed as well if you ask me.
And ofcourse the host decides to use it or not.

People that dont like flying red or blue when forced to will be presented with a sweet looking quit button, but at least the teams remain balanced.
But how can anyone possibly enjoy flying blue when teams are already ten blue vs five red? You'll barely ever see the enemy and if you do you have five blue guys trying to shoot it down with the lot of them, resulting in the well known and often mentioned shoot and crash into friendly aircraft fireworks display.

I hope this gets through to Oleg soon as dogfighting is great fun when balanced but hardly anyone every checks the teambalance and as a host there's little you can do about it. Banning people that pick the wrong team is no solution either as the server would be empty in no-time. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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JG54_Arnie
09-21-2004, 06:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:

You'll end up with people waiting to spawn but only doing so when they see a guy in a plane the want crash, land or get shot down so they can have it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. In other games its called plane camping...soon to come to this sim if plane limitation by type happens.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the host also needs to be able to set a time limit to users sitting in the game being idle. Would keep the server clean of people sitting there during lunch, dinner or whatever (which is a waste if the server is full and people would like to join) and also boots people that wait for their plane to come available.

Ofcourse the plane limitation doesnt have to be used in a very forcing way, just limiting a few planes that were rare in the war itself would be enough to spice up Dogfights a bit. It doesnt have to be the uberplanes per se.

---------------------------
http://home.student.utwente.nl/a.j.vansteenwijk/IL2/jg54%20draw2.jpg
EasternHotshots online for your entertainment, come visit us at Hyperlobby! If you like the Eastern Front that is. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We fly with limited planesets for several years, the year changing every 1 hour and 45 minutes.
Questions, recommendations or compaints: PT me.
Want to join through ip? : 130.89.227.135

Zen--
09-21-2004, 08:35 AM
Idle Kick time is an interesting concept as well Arnie, nice idea. There are several very popular servers like Warcouds where the wait time is often long because of that very popularity. It would be nice if server admins had the option to set an idle time limit before the player was kicked in order to keep people flying or empty their spot so that others could join.

-Zen-

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2004, 11:59 AM
If there were something added, I'd like to be able to limit plane types (either per/time period, or total server map time). This would cut down on ueberplaneism and generate some more interest.

As for player numbers, well, there isn't much the host can do. Besides, it's not about numbers anyway, it's about getting your mission done. Fly smart, don't fly alone into gaggles of enemy, and you can still survive in a "target rich" environment until some more players arrive to help your side.

JG54_Arnie
09-24-2004, 01:15 PM
Ofcourse its about the numbers... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2004, 10:31 AM
No, it's only 'about the numbers' to those with the playground mentality. War is not EVER "fair" with even numbers. You have to fight from positions of advantage AND disadvantage at times.

It would seem to me that if you find yourself on a server on the short end of the pilot numbers, you'd pick your battles more carefully, try to find loners and stragglers, do 'hit 'em where they ain't' raids, and try to make hunting you down "expensive" for your enemy. But most here would just fly directly for the enemy hive of planes like a doofus. Well, of *course* you'll die like a dog.

Again, if the host is smart enough to populate his servers with enough objects and missions to choose from, fun can be had in a lot of situations. But, if all the host does is set two bases up, 10km apart and that's it, anythign less than a duel with even numbers is going to be seen as unbalanced.

Now, if we had some intelligent tools to balance things, like configurable point scoring systems, you could "balance" even an unbalanced setup with ease. The military situation can be unbalanced while the GAME can still be very much in doubt.

You could make the side with more advanced planes worth more to the other side, while scoring kills with better planes nets less per plane, so the pressure's on the guys with the advantage to score that much more to get the same number of points. Same with ground objects. You can make pivotal ground objects worth a LOT, to entice people to come after them. You could derive your own schedule on how many points you score if you land, and what % you lose if you die.

F19_Ob
09-26-2004, 11:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RayBanJockey:
The simple solution is to make it a console command that the host can turn on or off at any time.

Also the variable of the maximum ammount of differece would be a part of it.


It would affect people who just joined the game.
It would prevent people from switching teams to a team that already had too many.



Pretty much sums it up.

http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/testsig.gif
_To anyone who wants to take away my trim on a slider, "From My Cold Dead http://www.talonse.com/supergreg.swf."_ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Pretty good idea! I also think it should be a choice of the host, although I often fly groundpounders on two of the servers with frequent and "interesting" teambalance.
I perhaps should add that I will be found on the lesser side, if someone cares to fly infront of my barrels. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

JG54_Arnie
09-27-2004, 01:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
No, it's only 'about the numbers' to those with the playground mentality. War is not EVER "fair" with even numbers. You have to fight from positions of advantage AND disadvantage at times.

It would seem to me that if you find yourself on a server on the short end of the pilot numbers, you'd pick your battles more carefully, try to find loners and stragglers, do 'hit 'em where they ain't' raids, and try to make hunting you down "expensive" for your enemy. But most here would just fly directly for the enemy hive of planes like a doofus. Well, of *course* you'll die like a dog.

Again, if the host is smart enough to populate his servers with enough objects and missions to choose from, fun can be had in a lot of situations. But, if all the host does is set two bases up, 10km apart and that's it, anythign less than a duel with even numbers is going to be seen as unbalanced.

Now, if we had some intelligent tools to balance things, like configurable point scoring systems, you could "balance" even an unbalanced setup with ease. The military situation can be unbalanced while the GAME can still be very much in doubt.

You could make the side with more advanced planes worth more to the other side, while scoring kills with better planes nets less per plane, so the pressure's on the guys with the advantage to score that much more to get the same number of points. Same with ground objects. You can make pivotal ground objects worth a LOT, to entice people to come after them. You could derive your own schedule on how many points you score if you land, and what % you lose if you die. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, I can follow your reasoning here, but this is still a game everyone should enjoy. And on simple dogfight arena's teambalance is important for everybody to enjoy. At least, I and a few of us think so.. If it would be implemented as an option, nobody would get hurt and you can still fly servers where 5 vs 20 is allowed. No problems right? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LuftLuver
09-27-2004, 11:44 PM
Yes, please add this so even the gaming aspect of our lives can be controlled.

NorrisMcWhirter
09-28-2004, 06:24 AM
Hi,

Sorry if this has already been suggested but what about something like the co-op dialog on connection to a DF server. OK, so this is like having pre-set quotas of certain aircraft but it could be extended to encompass Stiglr's idea of a 'handicap' scoring system next to each aircraft. e.g you have a list of aircraft to choose from like:

Blue
Flight 1:
109G6/AS Blue 1 Score Multiplier: 0.8 AVAIL
109G6/AS Blue 2 Score Multiplier: 0.8 TAKEN
109G6/AS Blue 3 Score Multiplier: 0.8 TAKEN
Flight 2:
He111H6 Green 1 Score Multiplier: 2.0 AVAIL
He111H6 Green 2 Score Multiplier: 2.0 AVAIL
He111H6 Green 3 Score Multiplier: 2.0 TAKEN

Red:
Flight 1:
La7 Red 1 Score Multiplier: 0.0 (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) TAKEN
La7 Red 2 Score Multiplier: 0.7 TAKEN
La7 Red 3 Score Multiplier: 0.7 AVAIL
Flight 2:
Il-23M Green 1 Score Multiplier: 2.0
Il-23M Green 2 Score Multiplier: 2.0
Il-23M Green 3 Score Multiplier: 2.0

etc

...this may just force/encourage people to fly the designers expected ratios/the aircraft required to meet mission objectives.

But then, of course, we get into what classifies one plane as having a greater handicap than another....

Cheers,
Norris