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View Full Version : Oleg, helping the Wine-X crew to get FB runing on Linux?



JG77Hawk_9
02-26-2004, 08:37 PM
Oleg, aside from the great work you and your team do (amazing by gaming/computing standards) would you be interested in communicating with the Wine-X croud to help them get FB working on Linux and also supporting BofB?

This would be a very nice addition and save on dual booting which can be a pain in the a (problem being that sound card has initialisation problems on reboots with Windows).

Would be greatly appreciated (-:
FB and Cubase SX are the only programs tying me down to that OS monopoly (-:

JG77Hawk_9
02-26-2004, 08:37 PM
Oleg, aside from the great work you and your team do (amazing by gaming/computing standards) would you be interested in communicating with the Wine-X croud to help them get FB working on Linux and also supporting BofB?

This would be a very nice addition and save on dual booting which can be a pain in the a (problem being that sound card has initialisation problems on reboots with Windows).

Would be greatly appreciated (-:
FB and Cubase SX are the only programs tying me down to that OS monopoly (-:

Aaron_GT
02-27-2004, 01:35 AM
I did manage to install FB, but when
attempting to run it basically nothing
happens. I had to use some tricks to
cope with a multiple disk install, and this,
coupled with the copy protection may
be the issue. I haven't been to TransGaming's
site to find if there are multiple disk
install workarounds.

I have got XPlane and Targetware to work
perfectly. Janes WW2F last time I tried
(I've updated winex since then) worked
partially, as did SDOE and EAW. Aces High
works, WB3 won't install as it claims
lack of disk space. That pretty much covers
what I have. In some instances the games
that work give higher frame rates in Linux
than in Windows.

Maybe we can ask Oleg to look at
using java, SDL, and OpenGL only for the
next sim, which would mean very simple native
Linux compatibility (Wine and WineX will
always be rather hit and miss). It could
be released alongside the next sim as
an unsupported addition. Given the popularity
of Linux in places such as South America,
it might unlock additional markets if the
security of the game to copying can be
assured.

CARBONFREEZE
02-27-2004, 02:04 AM
I was working on running HL/IL-2 under linux but have not had enough spare time.

I was getting alot of java errors under Wine(X). Tried updating java but still no go.

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

If guns are responsible for crime, my keyboard must be responsible for my spelling!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

http://www.pbase.com/image/25987401/medium.jpg
P-38 "Little Butch" Shemya, Alaska

Aaron_GT
02-27-2004, 02:17 AM
Which version of WineX are you running?
I'll check tonight which version I have,
and if it is the latest (and register, etc
for updates to WineX)

269GA-Maxmars
02-27-2004, 05:11 AM
I managed to make the original IL-2 work under Linux, I don't remember if by means of wine or winex.

Anyway, I wouldn't run it under linux because I'd miss my cam2pan (trackir-lookalike) and I'm not sure if the forces on SWFF2 work under linux.

I also managed to make the dedicated server work under linux, by means of wine.

Now, a Linux version of FB, or BOB, would be great but I'm not holding my breath. :-)

I'm happy that the port of X-Plane to Linux is back in production and I'm preparing for the native Linux UT2K4.. The demo rocks!

JG77Hawk_9
02-27-2004, 06:48 PM
I would still love to hear some comment from Oleg with regards to this. All the good game developers are enabling their software to run on Linux be it via a native executable or via WineX. FB is just a must for this and it would help in liberating me from having to run Microsoft's software.
I want to be able to exercise my consumer right in protesting against them and their business practices.

Must have a look at the demo of UT2004 sounds interesting.

Aaron_GT
02-28-2004, 02:36 AM
We do a fair bit of cross-platform development,
but the stuff we do requires graphical
interfaces be loosely coupled to the back end
code, and the interfaces are not performance
critical. It gives me an idea of how you could
at least create cross-platform game controls
(mission selection and so on) - Java and JNI, Qt, or Gtk spring to mind as they can all be
cross-platform, if with different advantages
and disadvantages. Currently at work
I am cursing parts of the testing tool I am
using, written in Java, running (or rather not
running) on Windows.

For the back end Linux sound support is getting
more standardised on ALSA for most general
purposes, and the SDL (simple direct media
layer) in theory offers cross platform
capability, along with OpenGL, for graphics
and sound.

In theory you could just use SDL and OpenGL
and develop for windows, and then do a no-cost
port to Linux, but developing using SDL means
learning a whole new set of techniques, so
that would be quite a risk for Oleg, for a
gain that may not be obvious at the moment.
Perhaps a good strategy for Oleg would be to
make the code modular so the physics engine
and presentation layer are separate. Given
that sometimes graphics and physics engine
events seem separated now, I think this is what
has already been done in IL2 and FB. In theory
this allows the presentation layer to be changed
for an SDL-compliant layer later, so Oleg could
keep the current expertise, with the option of
a change later if the Linux (or OSX) market
looks worthwhile and time allows.

One thing that will help Linux and gaming
is the 2.6.x kernel, which is preemptible and
has a better scheduling algorithm which will
mean that games will run better on it.
However, it's going to be towards the end of
the year before mainstream commercial distros
are shipping with 2.6.x. However you can
get 2.6.x now, and the end of the year is
about the time that Battle of Britain needs
to be finalised, so maybe it isn't a bad
time to look at cross-platform capability.
(OSX's mach kernel is pretty good already).

269GA-Maxmars
02-28-2004, 05:09 PM
To be honest with you, the UT2K4 demo on Linux is faster than that on windows, on the same machine, albeit marginally; however, in windows my graphics card is tweaked, while in linux I am using default options.

I'm using a 2.4 series kernel (that of SuSE).

AaronGT
02-28-2004, 06:25 PM
I found that Aces High and
Targetware were both faster in
Linux with the 2.4 kernel, but
neither of these sims have
significant AI. If the physics and/or
AI is in a different thread to the
graphics layer then
there might be a fair performance
hit in switching in 2.4 kernel that
might not be an issue if the AI, etc
is a relatively light load but might
be with lots of planes and AI.

That's my gut feeling anyway,
and that the 2.6 kernel might
offer better performance. I
haven't experimented with the
2.6 kernel yet but may do so at
work in a few weeks as the new
scheduling apparently offers
some definite NFS improvements.
When I've played with 2.6 I'll
report back on performance
differences on games I can get to
run.

If I can get more performance
from linux it would be very good.
I'll have to do a contrast for apps
under windows and linux 2.4 first.

CARBONFREEZE
02-29-2004, 11:06 PM
BUMP

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

If guns are responsible for crime, my keyboard must be responsible for my spelling!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

http://www.pbase.com/image/25987401/medium.jpg
P-38 "Little Butch" Shemya, Alaska

JG77Hawk_9
03-02-2004, 05:41 PM
Bump again, Oleg are you replying? It would be appreciated.

Oleg_Maddox
03-03-2004, 11:36 PM
Really we don't plan to port FB or BoB in this OS.

The main reason - you will never get right working things untill all the manufacturers of hardware, where is most important video and sound will support this OS with the corect drivers that will support all the features that are in say FB for these devices used.

Another one reason, even we like ourselves this OS, that still 99% of customers use Windows.

I do not expect that say video drivers for this OS will be soon good and bugs free... I don't see it even for Windows...

HellToupee
03-04-2004, 12:21 AM
NVIDA have and have had for a few years now very good linux drivers, atis drivers havnt been good but they now have offical ones which are apparntly getting better, but nvidias ones are every bit as good as the windows ones. Sound support is pretty good alsa supports most cards out there and is now standard in kernel 2.6.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

Aaron_GT
03-04-2004, 01:46 AM
Oleg, would it be possible to base the code
for BoB on cross-platform tools (Java, Qt,
SDL and OpenGL) such that if the situation
with drivers improves a port of BoB would be
comparatively easy? I suppose this might be
tricky in that things such as SDL are to
a certain extent a moving target, but then
DirectX is as well I suppose.

On my PC under Suse 9.0 the biggest problem
with hardware support is actually with respect
to joysticks and other controllers. Given that
Microsoft doesn't like Linux and has
discontinued the Force Feed Back stick I don't
expect much support from there!

While Windows has 99% share at the moment
I notice that China and other far eastern
nations, and South America are taking up
Linux. The Sun deal for Java Desktop in China
could mean up to 200 milion installations
there, which would make Linux a big player
in that market.

I suppose I am a big supporter of Linux versions
as I've been using Unix and Linux since the
late 1980s and like it (although BeOS would
have been a better gaming OS to be honest).
The 2.6 kernels might help with Linux - I
haven't actually played with this kernel as yet.

Aaron_GT
03-04-2004, 01:47 AM
P.S. Thanks for dropping by in this thread, Oleg.

HellToupee
03-04-2004, 02:42 AM
my m$ precision 2 works fine in linux, dunno bout force feed back but there is support for force feed backo n some joysticks.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

starfighter1
03-04-2004, 04:27 AM
hi,
things are running very fast in this field at the moment..re to news of CEBIT 2004 !
Anyway: MS is working on 64 bit XP windows(Longhorn takes more time) and more good drivers are in work for Linux distribution meantime : finally to code 2.6
There is a lot of performance for future sim like BoB at ..for example Suse 9 64 or Red Hat 64 bit systems on Linux base.




Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
Really we don't plan to port FB or BoB in this OS.

The main reason - you will never get right working things untill all the manufacturers of hardware, where is most important video and sound will support this OS with the corect drivers that will support all the features that are in say FB for these devices used.

Another one reason, even we like ourselves this OS, that still 99% of customers use Windows.

I do not expect that say video drivers for this OS will be soon good and bugs free... I don't see it even for Windows...

http://www.eichhorn.ws/assets/images/thunderbird.gif

Aaron_GT
03-04-2004, 11:12 AM
<S> HellToupee - where have you been?

My Precision Pro works fine in Linux too.
It is just the force feedback version which
lacks the force feedback. Maybe there is a
fix out there somewhere.

In games I can get to run on Linux I find
the frame rates are better. Some issues with
scratchy sound, perhaps, though, that I might
investigate at some point.