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View Full Version : Why does it seem like the AI is stupid?



rupok2
05-11-2012, 03:28 AM
From the new gameplay video it seems like the british soldier AI is extremely dumb. They see this guy and try to chase him down instead of trying to shoot him wtf? And at the end it seems like the ai is actually moving out of his way to let him kill them instead of trying to take aim and fire. Are the muskets just decorations or what? I know they are muskets but there should be no problems firing when they are loaded already.

Taffy_17
05-11-2012, 03:43 AM
Maybe its not dumb but actually behaving realistically?

In your first case there could be a number of reasons... their muskets arn't loaded or they've already fired their shots and would rather chase him than spend 20+ seconds reloading? they don't want to hit a civilian?

In your second case, what would you do if a hooded man appeared sprinting out of the woods and killed your mate? walk towards him? I know I wouldn't?

Also Muskets are very innaccurate and only really effective if you fire loads at once.

Hopefully your wrong and i'm right, If not its a good thing we've got another 6 months until the game comes out

Sarari
05-11-2012, 03:45 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses, but honestly, if I see a native rushing into my territory, I'd be thinking "Uh, what the hell should I do? Wait for orders or just shoot him?"

And about not shooting him while chasing him, well, their guns didn't have accurate aim. If they were to shoot and miss, he's pretty much gone and out of their sites. They're better off attempting to chase him then miss completely.

The guy above me pretty much said what I said :3

Timeaus
05-11-2012, 03:55 AM
well in the last scene if you pay close attention there is actually two guards that raise their gun and one them even shoot at Connor but missed. There are other guards that stand still and move out of the way.

Sephrick
05-11-2012, 04:00 AM
The Redcoats weren't really trained in close quarters combat. The British had ranking officers astride horses completely exposed and would march in formations expecting their opponents to stand there and take it as they fired from a distance. Before the Revolutionary War, it came down to who had the most guns.

That's why guerrilla tactics works so well against them. It didn't matter how many guns they had. And when the Americans would take out those exposed ranking officers, the British soldiers didn't know what to do.

So it's actually historically accurate that if being bum rushed by a master assassin who is taking your friends out with lightning speed that yes, they'd panic and freeze up or run away.

Taffy_17
05-11-2012, 04:06 AM
As stated, Muskets are not very accurate,

also they all have the common sense to step away from the axe wielding assassin and ready themselves to fight, and those that didn't get out the way quick enough got killed.

pirate1802
05-11-2012, 05:13 AM
..Because if they fire their muskets in crowded areas who knows what they might hit?

kudos17
05-11-2012, 05:24 AM
You cannot shoot a target moving as sporadically as a trained assassin with a musket. I mean, MAYBE if you were close and lucky. But then, if you missed, you're not gonna finished reloading any time soon...

As for avoiding contact with Connor instead of fighting him, that's just common sense. When you're surprised, your first instinct is not to fight. It may be your very next instinct if you've been trained to do so, but coping with the surprise is always the first instinct. Initial realization of the threat and such - in the case of the British, I'm going to go ahead and say that if an assassin popped out of nowhere and just stabbed one of my buds, I'd get the hell out of melee range before figuring out what to do next, too.

pacmanate
05-11-2012, 08:25 AM
I think the AI were dumb on purpose. Would be WAY easier to gather awesome footage of Connor that way

ProletariatPleb
05-11-2012, 10:00 AM
The AI isn't stupid, it's just not a hivemind.

If you look closely at the trailer, some guards back off, probably intimidated, some stand still and some aim at Connor and I think one also shot but missed....in any case, they're Muskets, inaccurate as hell...and Connor is MOVING.

Legendz54
05-11-2012, 10:04 AM
The AI of the guards isnt bad :/ if you look at the end of the trailer when Connor assassinates the general some guards back off and some aim and try to shoot him. The different behaviors have improved.

Assassin_M
05-11-2012, 10:27 AM
This whole thing looked like a freakin` cutscene when it was just gameplay..
did anyone actually pay attention In the last scene before Connor jumps on his target to the red coat near the rock ? did you see how he backed to the rock ? did you see how his feet reacted to the presence of a different figure slope on the ground ? GOD !!

Lass4r
05-11-2012, 10:36 AM
The reactions of the guards seem pretty lifelike to me. You see some just plain out running away, some running but deciding to try to get a shot at him, some trying to shoot him and missing, some going "wtf" not knowing what to do, and some backing up. I especially like the ending where the target cowers in fear as Connor jumps towards him. Everything here seems well done.

Mr_Shade
05-11-2012, 11:16 AM
Maybe its not dumb but actually behaving realistically?

In your first case there could be a number of reasons... their muskets arn't loaded or they've already fired their shots and would rather chase him than spend 20+ seconds reloading? they don't want to hit a civilian?


Also Muskets are very innaccurate and only really effective if you fire loads at once.




Indeed...

They may have already fired the ball from the musket...


It takes over a minute to load and prepare a musket for firing, however ingame I think I remember they have sped it up slightly, other wise it may get very easy, however as you can see in the trailer, they normally don't have time to reload, so they either hang back, or go in to hand to hand...


This is why there's a very clear part where Connor uses one soldier to sheild himself from the rest of the group when they fire - they only get one shot per load.. So after that initial shot, they are pretty open to countering..


I personally don't think it's poor AI people are seeing, just simple game machines.. They don't have gun loaded, so what should you do?



Dont forget these are "just normal" soldiers we are seeing.. There may be far more deadly things to face..

BBALive
05-11-2012, 11:29 AM
From the new gameplay video it seems like the british soldier AI is extremely dumb. They see this guy and try to chase him down instead of trying to shoot him wtf? And at the end it seems like the ai is actually moving out of his way to let him kill them instead of trying to take aim and fire. Are the muskets just decorations or what? I know they are muskets but there should be no problems firing when they are loaded already.

The most plausible reason for them chasing him is due to the inaccuracy of their guns. In a populated city environment it would be next to impossible to hit a moving target without trapping him some way, and when the person you're chasing can sprint at high speeds and seamlessly climb buildings it becomes all the more difficult. Perhaps another reason they didn't attempt to shoot him is because of the civilians in the area.

The second part was stupid though, I do agree. He assassinated one redcoat and the others just backed off and gave him a clear path to Pitcairn. I only spotted two Redcoats in the background actually readying and firing their muskets (which missed), while the others looked on as if nothing was happening. The Redcoats closer to him could have easily attempted to engage him with their muskets while the troops further away readied their muskets.

Hopefully the latter will be addressed before the game goes gold.

Sarari
05-11-2012, 12:54 PM
You know what the best part is? Is that the guards actually fear you in this game. In the previous games they usually attack you on sight or just give up in the middle of the battle.

The AI in this game seem very realistic and I also like how they only get one shot, and if they miss they go to hand to hand combat.

rupok2
05-11-2012, 04:42 PM
alright there were some valid points made in the topic. I still think the last scene is a little sketchy but the first scene I think that one is fine since muskets are inaccurate or they may have fired once already.

De Filosoof
05-11-2012, 05:39 PM
I think the only weird thing about the AI in the last part is the officer waiting to be killed on his horse.

IrishMason33
05-11-2012, 05:57 PM
The British sent their better troops to fight the other countries in Europe like Spain, France and the Netherlands.during this period. They thought of the revolution war as more as a rebellion and sent less experienced troops. Parliament had power that revoked the King's proposal for more troops to the American front which lost them the war.

Mr_Shade
05-11-2012, 06:06 PM
I think the only weird thing about the AI in the last part is the officer waiting to be killed on his horse.Maybe they didn't like him, and he was scared...

:D

Assassin_M
05-11-2012, 06:08 PM
Maybe they didn't like him, and he was scared...

:D
Or maybe this is just a very early rendering of the mission and this wont be how it`ll play out in the final version :p

Taffy_17
05-12-2012, 01:01 AM
I think the only weird thing about the AI in the last part is the officer waiting to be killed on his horse.

I agree, maybe the officer didn't notice him or have time to react for whatever reason but the horse would definately spook at a man running and leaping towards it and gun shots going off.

But then thats getting very realistic.

matheus_737
05-12-2012, 03:30 AM
it's just to make the scene more fantastic and some are trying to shoot him and others not.

ProletariatPleb
05-12-2012, 03:57 AM
I agree, maybe the officer didn't notice him or have time to react for whatever reason but the horse would definately spook at a man running and leaping towards it and gun shots going off.

But then thats getting very realistic.
from what I know, the ears of the horses are plugged for that very reason(loud sounds) so I think it's perfectly alright.

Taffy_17
05-12-2012, 04:37 AM
from what I know, the ears of the horses are plugged for that very reason(loud sounds) so I think it's perfectly alright.

Fair enough, but i've been around horses and they can be very stupid animals, i've seen them freeze up because they've seen a tree stump or throw a rider because of the slightest thing moving suddenly like a branch in the wind or a rabbit appearing out of no where, i'd hate to think what one would try to do if someone ran up to it and tried to leap onto it.

and remember, horses are prey animals with eyes on the side of their heads to spot predators like Connor and flight over fight instincts for exactly this kind of thing.

Then on the other a hand i suppose any animal can be trained to do behave any way by the right person which i expect is the case if this officer is high ranking enough for connor to want to kill him

Calvarok
05-12-2012, 04:44 AM
Fair enough, but i've been around horses and they can be very stupid animals, i've seen them freeze up because they've seen a tree stump or throw a rider because of the slightest thing moving suddenly like a branch in the wind or a rabbit appearing out of no where, i'd hate to think what one would try to do if someone ran up to it and tried to leap onto it.

and remember, horses are prey animals with eyes on the side of their heads to spot predators like Connor and flight over fight instincts for exactly this kind of thing.

Then on the other a hand i suppose any animal can be trained to do behave any way by the right person which i expect is the case if this officer is high ranking enough for connor to want to kill him
Pretty sure the horse has blinders on either side of it's head in the trailer, so...

It all happened very fast. The general didn't expect an assassin, he thinks he's far off from the fighting. The guards actually do try to take a few shots at Connor, but he came out of nowhere and moved very fast. the only one that I thought was kinda stupid was the guy standing near the rock that Connor leaps up onto. He doesn't do anything at all, just watches. Hopefully one of the benefits of all the time the team has to polish from pre-alpha is the fixing of little things like this. This kind of tweaking is still on the table, I'd say.

Taffy_17
05-12-2012, 04:52 AM
Pretty sure the horse has blinders on either side of it's head in the trailer, so...

It all happened very fast. The general didn't expect an assassin, he thinks he's far off from the fighting. The guards actually do try to take a few shots at Connor, but he came out of nowhere and moved very fast. the only one that I thought was kinda stupid was the guy standing near the rock that Connor leaps up onto. He doesn't do anything at all, just watches. Hopefully one of the benefits of all the time the team has to polish from pre-alpha is the fixing of little things like this. This kind of tweaking is still on the table, I'd say.

ye the stuff i was listing was very picky... don't actually expect that stuff about horses in the real game, just thought since people were saying it was un-realistic i'd take it to an extreme

GeneralTrumbo
05-12-2012, 07:19 AM
There is still time to fix all this. The game wasn't even in alpha mode yet when they took all this footage. If this is pre-alpha mode, that means tons is still there to be fixed.

Calvarok
05-12-2012, 08:00 AM
ye the stuff i was listing was very picky... don't actually expect that stuff about horses in the real game, just thought since people were saying it was un-realistic i'd take it to an extreme
I just rechecked and the horse didn't have any blinders on it. Let's just say that since it's a war horse it's been trained not to be easily spooked by people running around near it. Expecially since it's an officer's horse.

Serrachio
05-12-2012, 01:02 PM
The only thing that bothers me is that the two who back away don't use their bayonets to take a few swipes. Even though they're surprised that Connor's in their most vulnerable place, it still looks too easy for him to kill John Pitcairn.

If those two do try to slash at him or cross their muskets to block his path, it would look more dynamic for him to roll under their weapons and still perform the running kill animation where he slams the guard into the ground after stabbing him.

One thing that also bothers me is that when he grabs the guard to take the musket fire, why stab him? (going from the sound) I would rather see Connor break the guard's neck to put him out of his misery, but that's just my personal opinion. I figure it would give the situation two contrasting sounds, since the bullets add the squish and the neck breaking provides the snap.

dxsxhxcx
05-12-2012, 02:29 PM
Pretty sure the horse has blinders on either side of it's head in the trailer, so...

It all happened very fast. The general didn't expect an assassin, he thinks he's far off from the fighting. The guards actually do try to take a few shots at Connor, but he came out of nowhere and moved very fast. the only one that I thought was kinda stupid was the guy standing near the rock that Connor leaps up onto. He doesn't do anything at all, just watches. Hopefully one of the benefits of all the time the team has to polish from pre-alpha is the fixing of little things like this. This kind of tweaking is still on the table, I'd say.

even if it happened fast, all the other guards around the target were able to notice Connor and show a fast response, some even tried to shot him, I doubt that general wouldn't be able to listen to that confusion, he should've at least moved his horse to see what was happening, but until Connor jumps to kill him he's completely motionless, Connor might have acted fast, but he's not a bullet, he's still human...

Acrimonious_Nin
05-12-2012, 02:50 PM
I did find it a bit strange that of all those armed soldiers that NONE of them actually tried to fight and actually backed away, and the captain was completely oblivious to what was going on to his right. I think they did that just for show in a demo.

dxsxhxcx
05-12-2012, 02:59 PM
I did find it a bit strange that of all those armed soldiers that NONE of them actually tried to fight and actually backed away.

I believe is because Connor had the element of surprise on his favor, they may have backed away but at least one of them tried to shot Connor...

Acrimonious_Nin
05-12-2012, 03:10 PM
Actually I just watched the video again. You are right, if you focus on the guards closer to the captain, towards the left of the screen you will see 1 or 2 of them aiming there guns at Connor.

Calvarok
05-12-2012, 05:57 PM
I assume he's expecting his men will deal with Connor easily. I'm assuming this is a low-level assassination. I guess they didn't want it to be too complicated.

Assassin_M
05-12-2012, 06:00 PM
The Soldiers obviously hate their captain..

pacmanate
05-12-2012, 06:13 PM
Indeed...

They may have already fired the ball from the musket...


It takes over a minute to load and prepare a musket for firing, however ingame I think I remember they have sped it up slightly, other wise it may get very easy, however as you can see in the trailer, they normally don't have time to reload, so they either hang back, or go in to hand to hand...


This is why there's a very clear part where Connor uses one soldier to sheild himself from the rest of the group when they fire - they only get one shot per load.. So after that initial shot, they are pretty open to countering..


I personally don't think it's poor AI people are seeing, just simple game machines.. They don't have gun loaded, so what should you do?



Dont forget these are "just normal" soldiers we are seeing.. There may be far more deadly things to face..

Like ghosts!

MetalCreed
05-12-2012, 07:40 PM
Regarding AI:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/30/assassins-creed-3-developer-talks-animals-and-ai/

Acrimonious_Nin
05-12-2012, 08:03 PM
O.o ghosts ? I swear if I see a faceless lucy walking about....>_> I'm done with this game. No scaring me to death please.

Assassin_M
05-12-2012, 08:04 PM
O.o ghosts ? I swear if I see a faceless lucy walking about....>_> I'm done with this game. No scaring me to death please.
You Baby :p

BBALive
05-12-2012, 08:04 PM
Regarding AI:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/30/assassins-creed-3-developer-talks-animals-and-ai/

That's animal and crowd AI. We're specifically talking about enemy AI.

Taffy_17
05-13-2012, 01:36 AM
As a lone man against a large force, as with every assassins creed game and any other sneaky style game, Connor uses suprise and chaos to run in, quickly kill the guy in the way and leap at the officer, before the rest of them have a chance to react.

They were in shock, trying to piece together what was going on, trying to get away from the guy with the axe that just appeared out of no where and killed their mate.

The only unrealistic bit is that the officer doesnt react aswell.

On another note, did this trailer make you go wow that looks awesome, because i'm pretty sure thats all this is supposed to do.

Acrimonious_Nin
05-13-2012, 02:26 AM
I did :D^

NinjaSpartanII
05-13-2012, 07:04 AM
On another note, did this trailer make you go wow that looks awesome, because i'm pretty sure thats all this is supposed to do.

It made me think, Oh... That was pretty freakin bada**, and the looks on those guys faces at the end was priceless(Oh-My-God-Where-Did-That-Guy-Come-From-And-I-Shouid-Probably-Get-Out-Of-The-Way-Before-My-Stomach-Gets-Blown-Inside-Out-By-The-Crazy-Tomahawk-Dude-Who-Just-Killed-Fred!)