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Ruy Horta
04-03-2004, 01:57 AM
First let me say that I am looking forward to seeing this product coming to fruition. The Il-2/FB/AEP engine with its limited strategic engine is relatively well suited to the PTO type of warfare.

I must say that I do share the worries of a split community - the current strength of FB/AEP is the plane set. No common plane sets and you have a different game with FEWER planes, period.

Even the BoB as it stands now will be have a small(er) set of planes with limited possibilities.

But back to what I really wanted to say... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Nice Val, but couldn't the prop have some extra modeling, I mean that open "disc" looks primitive compared to the better modeling in IL2/FB/AEP.

Yes, if a prop turns the mechanics become blurred, but this is just a disc.

I am talking about the prop pitch regulator gear, its undefined "disc" solution looks kinda rushed / crappy / primitive.

PF will I suppose be as faithfully modeled as the latest from FB/AEP I hope?

Ruy Horta

Ruy Horta
04-03-2004, 01:57 AM
First let me say that I am looking forward to seeing this product coming to fruition. The Il-2/FB/AEP engine with its limited strategic engine is relatively well suited to the PTO type of warfare.

I must say that I do share the worries of a split community - the current strength of FB/AEP is the plane set. No common plane sets and you have a different game with FEWER planes, period.

Even the BoB as it stands now will be have a small(er) set of planes with limited possibilities.

But back to what I really wanted to say... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Nice Val, but couldn't the prop have some extra modeling, I mean that open "disc" looks primitive compared to the better modeling in IL2/FB/AEP.

Yes, if a prop turns the mechanics become blurred, but this is just a disc.

I am talking about the prop pitch regulator gear, its undefined "disc" solution looks kinda rushed / crappy / primitive.

PF will I suppose be as faithfully modeled as the latest from FB/AEP I hope?

Ruy Horta

necrobaron
04-03-2004, 03:27 AM
I think that's a Photoshopped prop "disk",not an in-game rendition. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

heywooood
04-03-2004, 11:33 AM
Mr. Horta -

Please pretend that any images of Pac. Fighters you see in the near future will bear little resemblance at all to the final product and you wont have any trouble sleeping at night.

We have the priveleage of being introduced to a new product that is still a work in progress.

luthier1
04-03-2004, 11:44 AM
It is the proper shape when the prop is stationary, which is a complex hexagonal kind of shape, or a triangle with corners cut off. However when the prop is turning it all blurs, and if you look at photos of Vals in flight, that's pretty much exactly what it looks like.

If you have specific modeling solutions in mind, and not just "make it better", I'm all ears though.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

luthier1
04-03-2004, 11:49 AM
Here's a couple of photos. Angle is similar but it's two different planes as you can see by the shadow on the gear.

http://www.il2center.com/Val%20Props.jpg

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

heywooood
04-03-2004, 01:38 PM
Luthier..

In your photos you can clearly see the color bands of the propellers safety stripes near the prop tips.. not a solid yellow or red..but clearly a two color stripe (yes - the photo is b/w) can that be represented?..

Ruy Horta
04-04-2004, 09:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
Mr. Horta -

Please pretend that any images of Pac. Fighters you see in the near future will bear little resemblance at all to the final product and you wont have any trouble sleeping at night.

We have the priveleage of being introduced to a new product that is still a work in progress.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lets assume that I am as sane as you are and that I realise that PF is a work in progress, VERY much so actually.

Lets also assume that not being dependant on the relative success of PF I won't loose any sleep on this issue.

Ruy Horta

Ruy Horta
04-04-2004, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by luthier1:
It is the proper shape when the prop is stationary, which is a complex hexagonal kind of shape, or a triangle with corners cut off. However when the prop is turning it all blurs, and if you look at photos of Vals in flight, that's pretty much exactly what it looks like.

If you have specific modeling solutions in mind, and not just "make it better", I'm all ears though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again lets assume that most people who post here are sane of mind and relatively intelligent people. The difference between "stationary" and "motion blurr" being a given factor.

Of course this is a minor detail, but there is little to go on at this stage.

Here's the "current" version of your Val.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/TEMP/D3A_01.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/TEMP/D3A_01_real.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/TEMP/D3A_02_real.jpg

compare again with:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/TEMP/D3A_02.jpg

If the object were still:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/TEMP/D3A_00_real.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/TEMP/D3A_00_real_2.jpg

or a detailed model (1/48)


http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/TEMP/D3A_00.jpg

The sollution to a superior prop system is relatively simple, increase the number of "cylinders" and match them with the objects that can be seen in the pics.

So instead of your single shaft cylinder and single "fat cylinder" approach. Have three cylinders of varying sizes matches the prop components.

Of course that's one approach, matching you current example (as in the CURRENT Val pics with a prop in motion).

Lot of a/c in PF will have no prop. spinner, and it would be a shame if all would follow the example given.

Ruy Horta

Ruy Horta
04-04-2004, 10:02 AM
BTW

If I can help by supplying data, I am happy to.

Both air and sea.

You'll need a lot of ships I guess to fill the seas, collected some good material for modeling. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Here's my E-mail address if you guys are interested (cross check ref. material to start with):

12oclockhigh@xs4all.nl

Ruy Horta

heywooood
04-04-2004, 10:22 AM
rhorta.. my appologies.

Your sanity was never questioned by the way.
I only meant to point out that as a work in progress, early representations should not be accepted as final. It seemed from your post as if you beleived all work had ceased on prop animations. They may have. I don't know.

What I do know is that my post was condesending (probably spelled wrong) but you know what I mean.. and "losing sleep over it" was just a figure of speech.

Again I appologize.
Oh and those are nice pics of scale model Val.

Ruy Horta
04-04-2004, 11:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
rhorta.. my appologies.

Oh and those are nice pics of scale model Val.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Accepted (*), since you were only a little bit condenscending (had to double check the spelling). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Since much that passes this medium borders on open warfare, this was surely just a gentle nudge!

As for the model, I cannot take credit. Its a pic I scanned from:

Model Art No. 573
Pearl Harbor

Great book(let) when it comes to details on the IJN a/c used in the attack on Pearl. 30 pages of profiles, covering the markings and schemes (c. 160!). Besides that it has some other gems. Unfortuntely most of the text is lost on me, since its Japanese http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The other pics are from Bunrindo's Famous Aircraft of the World No. 33 - TYPE 99 Carrier Dive Bomber.

Ruy Horta

(* PS. I'm often too guilty myself...)

heywooood
04-04-2004, 11:45 AM
Ya know -I spelled it that way first -and it looked wrong so I changed it.. to the wrong way... I'm a slamhead I admit it.
.. wait a minute.. you have an extra -n-in there.. hahah yer a slamhead too, welcome! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
Where can this Japanese book be found? is it in print now?.. doubtful, but worth asking.

I love authentic resources like that for a/c markings etc..
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ruy Horta
04-04-2004, 12:56 PM
Ouch... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

okay...so all of us can learn:

Condescending
to assume an air of superiority

phew,glad to have that behind me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As for the Model Art it wasn't published that long ago. Actually it came out around time of the movie release a few years ago.

The Pearl Harbor issue together with the IJN fighter and bomber issues makes a great set, although the you may have more trouble finding the latter two.

Didn't find any at my regular link (HLJ) so you might have to look around first.

Critical note, although these are all great books you'll be frustrated by what you CAN'T understand!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You might look at "Scale Aircraft Modeling Colours Combat Colours Number 4 - Pearl Harbor and Beyond - December 1941 to May 1942" as an alternative.

Relatively cheap and easy to obtain it covers most of the schemes and in addition covers a lot more areas.

Certainly would be skinners would find ample of source material in the SAM booklet.

Ruy Horta

heywooood
04-04-2004, 07:35 PM
Yeah, my Japanese is a little rusty.

I will look for the SAM Pearl Harbor one.

Thanks rhorta http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif