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xsatanicjokerx
05-03-2012, 07:06 AM
If the Animus reads ancestral memories through your DNA why is a live subject needed? The way i see it a blood sample or a mouth swab would do the same trick.
It would save Vidic a lot of time looking for Desmond.

iSoTryHard
05-03-2012, 10:36 AM
now that i think about it that probably would work

Abeonis
05-03-2012, 11:22 AM
Wouldn't work. Genetic memories need to be relived, and to a certain extent, controlled, by the person viewing them. Take away the person, I doubt they'd even be able to manifest a static image...

Rakudaton
05-03-2012, 09:10 PM
I like to think of it like this:

The genetic memory is all jumbled up and confused -- the timeline is corrupted, with the memories stored non-chronologically, or sliced up and rematched, or whatever. There is no logic behind the ordering -- it's chaotic, and no computer could make sense of it. In order to unscramble it, the animus needs to make use of a test subject's subconscious to sift through the data and sort it, before feeding this information back into the animus. In order to sift through this data effectively, the subject needs to have this genetic information in his brain -- hence why you can't take a swab from someone and then use someone else to view the memories. The resultant stream of memories as ordered by the subconscious is imperfect -- but key events are worked out chronologically. In addition minor events are accurate, even if their precise time cannot be pinned down.

This would also explain why there are non-sequential and branching options in gameplay -- the host has a choice in how he interacts with the world presented by his subconscious, which is an inaccurate rendering of the original memories. If he performs an action in the world that is not what his ancestor did, his subconscious can shuffle around the memories and simulate the consequences of his actions; when the conditions are right, certain memories can resurface -- hence how failed missions in the original game could be restored, for example. Of course, there comes a point where the host performs an action so radical that his subconscious lacks the memory resources or imagination to piece together a coherent set of consequences: for example, the ancestor or an important character dies thanks to the host's actions. The subconscious rejects his decision, unable to continue rendering this artificial world. This is known as desynchronisation.

OriginalMiles
05-03-2012, 09:14 PM
I like to think of it like this:

The genetic memory is all jumbled up and confused -- the timeline is corrupted, with the memories stored non-chronologically, or sliced up and rematched, or whatever. There is no logic behind the ordering -- it's chaotic, and no computer could make sense of it. In order to unscramble it, the animus needs to make use of a test subject's subconscious to sift through the data and sort it, before feeding this information back into the animus. In order to sift through this data effectively, the subject needs to have this genetic information in his brain -- hence why you can't take a swab from someone and then use someone else to view the memories. The resultant stream of memories as ordered by the subconscious is imperfect -- but key events are worked out chronologically. In addition minor events are accurate, even if their precise time cannot be pinned down.

This would also explain why there are non-sequential and branching options in gameplay -- the host has a choice in how he interacts with the world presented by his subconscious, which is an inaccurate rendering of the original memories. If he performs an action in the world that is not what his ancestor did, his subconscious can shuffle around the memories and simulate the consequences of his actions; when the conditions are right, certain memories can resurface -- hence how failed missions in the original game could be restored, for example. Of course, there comes a point where the host performs an action so radical that his subconscious lacks the memory resources or imagination to piece together a coherent set of consequences: for example, the ancestor or an important character dies thanks to the host's actions. The subconscious rejects his decision, unable to continue rendering this artificial world. This is known as desynchronisation.
My head hurts, I think I'm gonna...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hQr3qBOHWc



But seriously that's a good theory.

rileypoole1234
05-03-2012, 09:19 PM
I like to think of it like this:

The genetic memory is all jumbled up and confused -- the timeline is corrupted, with the memories stored non-chronologically, or sliced up and rematched, or whatever. There is no logic behind the ordering -- it's chaotic, and no computer could make sense of it. In order to unscramble it, the animus needs to make use of a test subject's subconscious to sift through the data and sort it, before feeding this information back into the animus. In order to sift through this data effectively, the subject needs to have this genetic information in his brain -- hence why you can't take a swab from someone and then use someone else to view the memories. The resultant stream of memories as ordered by the subconscious is imperfect -- but key events are worked out chronologically. In addition minor events are accurate, even if their precise time cannot be pinned down.

This would also explain why there are non-sequential and branching options in gameplay -- the host has a choice in how he interacts with the world presented by his subconscious, which is an inaccurate rendering of the original memories. If he performs an action in the world that is not what his ancestor did, his subconscious can shuffle around the memories and simulate the consequences of his actions; when the conditions are right, certain memories can resurface -- hence how failed missions in the original game could be restored, for example. Of course, there comes a point where the host performs an action so radical that his subconscious lacks the memory resources or imagination to piece together a coherent set of consequences: for example, the ancestor or an important character dies thanks to the host's actions. The subconscious rejects his decision, unable to continue rendering this artificial world. This is known as desynchronisation.


This is probably right.

xsatanicjokerx
05-04-2012, 02:49 AM
I get what you are saying but I see no reason why the subject has to be Desmond. In the multiplayer storyline "subjects" relive others memories in the animus, so all Vidic has to do is take a hair off where Desmond was sleeping and get someone else to use their subconscious.

Calvarok
05-04-2012, 04:15 AM
I get what you are saying but I see no reason why the subject has to be Desmond. In the multiplayer storyline "subjects" relive others memories in the animus, so all Vidic has to do is take a hair off where Desmond was sleeping and get someone else to use their subconscious.
The only reason Abstergo can upload ancestor data to subjects is because they first gained the ancestor data from actual descendants. After that point, they can play around with it. But the actual decendant must be present for the original recording process.

xsatanicjokerx
05-04-2012, 05:02 AM
The only reason Abstergo can upload ancestor data to subjects is because they first gained the ancestor data from actual descendants. After that point, they can play around with it. But the actual decendant must be present for the original recording process.
Yes and I'm saying because they receive those memories from the decedents DNA if Abstergo had a copy of that DNA the subject becomes unneeded.

Calvarok
05-04-2012, 06:13 AM
Yes and I'm saying because they receive those memories from the decedents DNA if Abstergo had a copy of that DNA the subject becomes unneeded.
As said before, in its raw form the DNA is a jumble. The actual person who the DNA belongs to must "play" through DNA sequences if there is any hope of clarifying that jumble. Basically DNA is useless until it's been processed. And the only way to process it is through an actual living descendant.

Serrachio
05-04-2012, 09:28 AM
Yes and I'm saying because they receive those memories from the decedents DNA if Abstergo had a copy of that DNA the subject becomes unneeded.

They recieve those memories because they are recorded, not because they're part of the DNA.

Abstergo might have the subject's DNA, but they need to record their memories through the use of the Animus to then re-use the memories later.

A blood swab would just be useless to them when it comes to recording those memories, because they need the living subject of that DNA, or someone related to them that has those memories for them to record. After they've gotten the memories they want in recorded form, they can implant them into the Animus for any other user to experience.

Abeonis
05-04-2012, 09:31 AM
As said before, in its raw form the DNA is a jumble. The actual person who the DNA belongs to must "play" through DNA sequences if there is any hope of clarifying that jumble. Basically DNA is useless until it's been processed. And the only way to process it is through an actual living descendant.
Indeed. After all, a car is useless without having anyone to drive it; it certainly won't take you where you want to go.

Deltasparkz
05-04-2012, 01:20 PM
Indeed. After all, a car is useless without having anyone to drive it; it certainly won't take you where you want to go.

ROBOTS!!! 0.o

With built in GPS systems. DUH! ;)

Serrachio
05-04-2012, 10:29 PM
ROBOTS!!! 0.o

With built in GPS systems. DUH! ;)

What happens if something along the lines of I-Robot happens? :O

xsatanicjokerx
05-04-2012, 11:15 PM
Do you people have any proof that a decedent needs to pilot the Animus? Because as i said before, in the multiplayer story line none of those people are piloting their decedents and before you say that those memories have already be processed by the actual ancestor it doesn't say anywhere in the AC franchise that once a Animus session has been done they can redo it again in infinite different ways without using the DNA memory bank again. All Absergo can do is record a session and watch it later like a movie and from excessive assassin's creed playing I have no reason to believe they can do anymore than that.
But if they had the genetic memory of an ancestor on record they could keep using and exploring it because like in multiplayer anyone can pilot anyone's memories.

SixKeys
05-04-2012, 11:24 PM
Do you people have any proof that a decedent needs to pilot the Animus? Because as i said before, in the multiplayer story line none of those people are piloting their decedents and before you say that those memories have already be processed by the actual ancestor it doesn't say anywhere in the AC franchise that once a Animus session has been done they can redo it again in infinite different ways without using the DNA memory bank again. All Absergo can do is record a session and watch it later like a movie and from excessive assassin's creed playing I have no reason to believe they can do anymore than that.
But if they had the genetic memory of an ancestor on record they could keep using and exploring it because like in multiplayer anyone can pilot anyone's memories.

The multiplayer is not about the subjects piloting their ancestors. The MP characters are based on characters that (in-universe) were real people, but the people piloting them are simply using avatars made in the image of those people. Just like gamers in RL aren't actually controlling the "historical" Ezio but a pixelated representation of him.

gharlazufarc
05-05-2012, 12:58 AM
The thing that confuses me is the DDS from Project Legacy. I mean, how can someone relive memories of a ghost?

Abeonis
05-05-2012, 03:50 AM
Do you people have any proof that a decedent needs to pilot the Animus? Because as i said before, in the multiplayer story line none of those people are piloting their decedents and before you say that those memories have already be processed by the actual ancestor it doesn't say anywhere in the AC franchise that once a Animus session has been done they can redo it again in infinite different ways without using the DNA memory bank again. All Absergo can do is record a session and watch it later like a movie and from excessive assassin's creed playing I have no reason to believe they can do anymore than that.
But if they had the genetic memory of an ancestor on record they could keep using and exploring it because like in multiplayer anyone can pilot anyone's memories.

Are you even reading the answer people give to your questions? Slate (Serrachio) has said that the Abstergo recruits (the individuals we play in the MP) are reliving the pre-recorded memories of another's ancestor. The memories were originally accessed and recorded as you would expect, in an Animus with a genetic ancestor; once recorded, the are accessed by the recruits via the DDS (which is also present in Project Legacy). As for the ability to change what happens in memories, this is a complicated subject; the memory will always, ultimately, end in the same way, however the Animus allows some room for the descendant viewing to dictate how the reach the memories conclusion. This is where the idea of 100% syncs comes in to play; by completing the memory as the ancestor did, you achieve 100% sync. If you complete it another way, the memory still ends in the same fashion, but it was completed in a different fashion.


The thing that confuses me is the DDS from Project Legacy. I mean, how can someone relive memories of a ghost?
You're not. You're reliving the pre-recorded genetic memories of somebody else.

gharlazufarc
05-05-2012, 07:05 AM
You're not. You're reliving the pre-recorded genetic memories of somebody else.

I'm talking about this guy:
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Chapter_4_-_Frater_V.O.V.
He was poisoned to death, yet somehow his soul left the body, acting like a ghost. Is it maybe because a Piece of Eden was involved? And how did Abstergo managed to obtain his memories?

Is Ubi still going to continue Project Legacy? Too bad it stopped once the story gets interesting (what's with the golem sightings, Giovanni meeting Consus, and that ghost dude).

dxsxhxcx
05-05-2012, 01:01 PM
and before you say that those memories have already be processed by the actual ancestor it doesn't say anywhere in the AC franchise that once a Animus session has been done they can redo it again in infinite different ways without using the DNA memory bank again. All Absergo can do is record a session and watch it later like a movie and from excessive assassin's creed playing I have no reason to believe they can do anymore than that. But if they had the genetic memory of an ancestor on record they could keep using and exploring it because like in multiplayer anyone can pilot anyone's memories.

even Desmond and the others do something similar to what Abstergo does in the multiplayer, the VR training room is an example of that, you play/control Ezio in an environment created by Rebbeca to test your skills, the difference is that Abstergo put as background the layout of the cities they also collected from the people from who they "extracted" the memories...


I'm talking about this guy: http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Chapter_4_-_Frater_V.O.V. He was poisoned to death, yet somehow his soul left the body, acting like a ghost. Is it maybe because a Piece of Eden was involved? And how did Abstergo managed to obtain his memories? Is Ubi still going to continue Project Legacy? Too bad it stopped once the story gets interesting (what's with the golem sightings, Giovanni meeting Consus, and that ghost dude).

I would like to know more about that too, I mean, that guy just broke the Golden Rule of the animus (that is: once you have the child who will be your ancestor, you can't follow the memories of the parents anymore, at least not through your own DNA), and like if that wasn't enough he also died and was able to produce more memories, and how they were able to collect these memories was never explained as well..

Abeonis
05-05-2012, 01:14 PM
I'm talking about this guy:
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Chapter_4_-_Frater_V.O.V.
He was poisoned to death, yet somehow his soul left the body, acting like a ghost. Is it maybe because a Piece of Eden was involved? And how did Abstergo managed to obtain his memories?

Is Ubi still going to continue Project Legacy? Too bad it stopped once the story gets interesting (what's with the golem sightings, Giovanni meeting Consus, and that ghost dude).
That's an interesting one. I believe the wording of the story implies that he isn't completely dead, perhaps comatose? (Which they might not have necessarily understood completely during the Victorian era). Either that, or a necrophiliic act was involved in ensuring his bloodline continued with Moina...