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View Full Version : A6M2/5 Zero Dancers...Thoughts on AEP patch changes?



LEBillfish
05-31-2004, 10:28 AM
Salute All~!!

First off I'm not wanting this thread to be a "this is bad, this is wrong, this S***s that doesn't......Yet one to discuss "how" to fly the Zero after them and what you've learned. Last night I took the A6m5 out for a spin, my first since the patch....and here is what I soon discovered.

As we all know the Zero "was" realatively uber in 1.22-2.0. Fast enough it could actually catch many planes (perhaps too fast), and able to turn and dance like a WWI Fokker Dr1. I don't believe I ever saw it stall, and the control fade and roll at high speed seemed reasonable however.....On the downside we all know how fragile it was, 4 .50 cal. through the wing...and you had better limp home fast.

Now however I noted the following changes (though it may simply have been aggrivated fumbling on my part).

1. Trim is not the same, it taking less elevator adjustment than before.
2. Roll was reduced even though it was already slow.
3. Quick speed response (sprinting) was lost, it now taking longer to build up speed.
4. Top end speed was reduced.
5. Speed is now more affected by prop pitch.
6. Prop pitch and mix are much more sensitive having more dramatic effects if not set correctly.
7. High speed control fade is much worse, I myself finding it happening sooner and lasting much longer.
8. Slow speed agility is much worse.
9. Climb rate has been reduced.
10. Elevator induced turns both flat and in the verticle I found resulted often in (and this is the only way I can describe it) simply pushing air though not following the nose direction....Try and imagine you point the nose up quickly as though to climb, yet instead of it climbing it continues forward it's belly now in the direction of the flight path. Imagine a slow P47 in it's high speed stall, it on the zero happening at slow speeds, high speeds naturally giving you no response.
11. Damage model seems slightly worse, the same 4 .50 cal. in the wing will cause the plane to be so uncontrolable there will be no rtb.
etc.


So, all that said what tricks have you learned to overcome these (assumed) dramatic changes. The Zero before and granted unfairly perhaps deffinately made even a rookie look good...Yet now with the lack of speed, lack of throttle response, consistant stalls and even spins, it to me is feeling like a sluggish p47 only running on 3 cylinders....Yet I know there must be something I'm missing as it is well documented a P40 could not out turn it, now that would be the norm.

Please post any tips or tricks you've learned since the patch here....As I'd like to start flying this Zero again like it's number One.

http://www.geocities.com/k2kellyirie/IL2/starnew.txt

LEBillfish
05-31-2004, 10:28 AM
Salute All~!!

First off I'm not wanting this thread to be a "this is bad, this is wrong, this S***s that doesn't......Yet one to discuss "how" to fly the Zero after them and what you've learned. Last night I took the A6m5 out for a spin, my first since the patch....and here is what I soon discovered.

As we all know the Zero "was" realatively uber in 1.22-2.0. Fast enough it could actually catch many planes (perhaps too fast), and able to turn and dance like a WWI Fokker Dr1. I don't believe I ever saw it stall, and the control fade and roll at high speed seemed reasonable however.....On the downside we all know how fragile it was, 4 .50 cal. through the wing...and you had better limp home fast.

Now however I noted the following changes (though it may simply have been aggrivated fumbling on my part).

1. Trim is not the same, it taking less elevator adjustment than before.
2. Roll was reduced even though it was already slow.
3. Quick speed response (sprinting) was lost, it now taking longer to build up speed.
4. Top end speed was reduced.
5. Speed is now more affected by prop pitch.
6. Prop pitch and mix are much more sensitive having more dramatic effects if not set correctly.
7. High speed control fade is much worse, I myself finding it happening sooner and lasting much longer.
8. Slow speed agility is much worse.
9. Climb rate has been reduced.
10. Elevator induced turns both flat and in the verticle I found resulted often in (and this is the only way I can describe it) simply pushing air though not following the nose direction....Try and imagine you point the nose up quickly as though to climb, yet instead of it climbing it continues forward it's belly now in the direction of the flight path. Imagine a slow P47 in it's high speed stall, it on the zero happening at slow speeds, high speeds naturally giving you no response.
11. Damage model seems slightly worse, the same 4 .50 cal. in the wing will cause the plane to be so uncontrolable there will be no rtb.
etc.


So, all that said what tricks have you learned to overcome these (assumed) dramatic changes. The Zero before and granted unfairly perhaps deffinately made even a rookie look good...Yet now with the lack of speed, lack of throttle response, consistant stalls and even spins, it to me is feeling like a sluggish p47 only running on 3 cylinders....Yet I know there must be something I'm missing as it is well documented a P40 could not out turn it, now that would be the norm.

Please post any tips or tricks you've learned since the patch here....As I'd like to start flying this Zero again like it's number One.

http://www.geocities.com/k2kellyirie/IL2/starnew.txt

Fennec_P
05-31-2004, 01:00 PM
I'm not sure about the other points, but roll rate certainly wasn't reduced.

The roll rate was originally too poor, and the patch improved it significantly.

Roll at high speed is equally poor, but at low speed it is better, most noticably in the '40 version.

If it is less manueverable than before, it is still the best turning monoplane in FB, barring only the P.11c.

Giganoni
05-31-2004, 02:26 PM
I think some people are mostly upset about the stalls when you turn and the thing snaps back the other way. "Supposedly" it didn't do that as much in real life. I think that is the only thing I don't like about it, otherwise I love the a/c

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v225/giganoni/IL2/giganoni2.jpg

Gunner_361st
05-31-2004, 08:23 PM
I'm a fan of the A6M as well... I'll play around with it some more and come back with my impressions of it in the 2.01 version.

Major Gunner of the 361st vFG

http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1087.jpg

Fennec_P
05-31-2004, 08:47 PM
I guess it is slightly more snappy that before.

But still well in the kiddie pool. I mean, this thing will recover a stall as if by telepathy.

Gunner_361st
05-31-2004, 08:54 PM
Well, this is what I noticed after a half hour of goofing around in both types...

-A6M5a reacts faster and is better in the loop than the A6M2.

-Type 99-1 and Type 99-2 cannons of the A6M2 and A6M5a respectively seem to have their power toned down a bit, but still are very destructive and take planes apart internally and externally in short order.

-Roll rate for both variants seems a bit better at slow speeds and worse at high speeds... Which, to my understanding with all I've read on the Zero fighter and accounts of people who flew it, that this is correct and/or proper.

-As for durability... I haven't noticed anything really, the Zero was always so fragile in the first place.

Interesting list though Billfish, I'll have to look into it some more later.

Major Gunner of the 361st vFG

http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1087.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-01-2004, 08:58 AM
I get this all the time.
Opponent on the left.....get thrown right.
Opponent on my right...get thrown left.
when stalling


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Giganoni:
I think some people are mostly upset about the stalls when you turn and the thing snaps back the other way. "Supposedly" it didn't do that as much in real life. I think that is the only thing I don't like about it, otherwise I love the a/c

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v225/giganoni/IL2/giganoni2.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scarn3
06-01-2004, 12:24 PM
Ahh Billfish.

I thought that named sounded familiar.
Then I saw your icon and your sig.

I remember you back in the days of RB3D.

I fell to your guns more than I want to admit.

My callsign back then was "Cowboy" and I was apart of the 95th aero.

How you been?