PDA

View Full Version : BF109's...



Skullin
05-21-2004, 06:05 PM
Ok, i'm never one to whine about things, but... LOL

My favorite plane used to be the G2. After AEP came out, and the concrete elevators came in, i switched to the K-4 to kind of make up for it. Now with this patch i can't even fly that. The E-retention seems worse, and what is with the overheating engine now? It comes on, and never goes off unless you drop your power way down... not smart in the middle of a dog fight.

I don't know what plane to fly anymore, but the whole 109 series has gotten very hard to B&Z with after the last couple patches. Maybe they just want us to all fly Yaks?

Im about to uninstall everything, and just go back to FB - pre-expansion. Sux i'll lose some of the new planes, and especially the new maps but oh well. At least i can have fun again.

Skullin
05-21-2004, 06:05 PM
Ok, i'm never one to whine about things, but... LOL

My favorite plane used to be the G2. After AEP came out, and the concrete elevators came in, i switched to the K-4 to kind of make up for it. Now with this patch i can't even fly that. The E-retention seems worse, and what is with the overheating engine now? It comes on, and never goes off unless you drop your power way down... not smart in the middle of a dog fight.

I don't know what plane to fly anymore, but the whole 109 series has gotten very hard to B&Z with after the last couple patches. Maybe they just want us to all fly Yaks?

Im about to uninstall everything, and just go back to FB - pre-expansion. Sux i'll lose some of the new planes, and especially the new maps but oh well. At least i can have fun again.

patch_adams
05-21-2004, 06:11 PM
the secret to bnzing in bf109s is the usage of trim to counteract compression. with time you will get the hang of it. but the idea is to aim your nose lower than the target, then release the forward pressure on the stick so the recticle crosses the target carried by the trim force. enjoy.

p1ngu666
05-21-2004, 06:14 PM
u gotta be expertan for 109 now ;P

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

Skullin
05-22-2004, 09:16 AM
wow, i sort of expected to get flamed for my 1st whine-post.. hehe... i guess no one disagrees with me then. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Curly_109
05-22-2004, 09:31 AM
I don't wanna to disagree with u, but simply I cannot find that much changes (if at all) on G-2 (however that may be due to my short experience on AEP 2.01 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).
My favourite dogfight plane is G-2 also 'cause of it's flying char. and lot of 7.62mm ammo(works better for me then smaller ammount of 12mm on later variants). It'll be the shame if Bf109 series become harder to fly after this patch. Here we go again whining(don't know why is that so popular word on this forum)

Skullin
05-22-2004, 09:38 AM
i know... i hate whining too. I'm just upset that my favorite planes, the 109's have gotten the shaft lately. The elevator change is the toughest one, and i really don't want to have to use trim so much. Other planes don't have to, so i just don't think it's fair, but that's just IMHO.

As far as the overheating, i've noticed that all the other planes i'm messing with also are overheating very quickly now, and stay hot for longer before returning to normal. This leads me to believe that it has nothing to do with manual prop-pitch, but just that Oleg wanted to make people use their radiators more. Not sure if that will be a good thing or not in the long run, but it does seem fair across the board.

LeadSpitter_
05-22-2004, 10:37 AM
g2 is exactly the same man i dont know what your talking about it out manuevers the mustang easily I racked up 1250 pts in warclouds flying the g2 before coming here.

Use combat flaps and trottle back and a p51 will not be able to touch you.

All it takes is one burst from the g2 to explode a p51d or at least stop its engines and wreck all its control surfaces.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

karost
05-22-2004, 10:52 AM
well, friends I respect you idea about 109 in patch 2.01 that make you upset;

1) I have no problem with overheating , coz I alway take care temperature with manual pitch and manual radiator keep it cool at 50-60% before enter to combat area , you right it easy to overheating "IF you not take care them"

2) at AEP release, gun fire of 151/20 in 109G2 has less power to damange target so I have to learn to fly FW190 with feel bad about **** black bar under gunsight, "BUT" when patch 2.01 release ..... all gun in 109s come back to life... I very happy to come back to fly my 109s again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


3) you have to set trim as patch_adams said, and before you enter to combat area you have to bring your G2 stay on advantage position ( over your opponent ) , I believe you can take one p-51D down easy and your engine temperature still 50% as I did in HL.


S!

dadada1
05-22-2004, 11:26 AM
I do think the G2 FM has been changed since the initial release and has become slightly less able. However, I did feel that originally it was too good. In the original FB you could out turn and out roll the 109F and that surely contradicts everything written on the subject of the 109's performance. I'm glad they have toned it down now even it it has been just the subtle changes they've made.

On a separate note I think it's hard to please everyone with this sim, just read these boards and it's like there's almost as much fighting on them than there is online, somtimes more.

BlitzPig_DDT
05-22-2004, 12:36 PM
In 2.0 the G2 could not out turn the F-4. Both planes are so close in weight and wing loading that they have just about the same corner speed. The difference is that the G-2 had the power to hold that speed longer and regain it quicker than the F-4. This lead to the false idea that it was a better turn fighter. In truth, when put side by side, they were almost identical, with the F being noticably lighter and more pleasant (to those capable of discerning such things) and at 0% throttle was indeed the better turner of the 2.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

dadada1
05-22-2004, 01:18 PM
Don't know if your responding to my post DDT, but I did say the original FB and not AEP, I would'nt dispute that in 2.0 they were very close. Up until the release of AEP the 109F was inferior to the G2 in both roll and turn, go try it out for yourself.

Skullin
05-22-2004, 03:45 PM
well, the turning of the g2 doesn't matter much to me. As long as you can turn a little to get a guns solution in a dive, that's all i need. My point is that it's gotten very hard to B&Z with since the elevator nerf. It might even be more realistic now, but in that case it should effect more planes than just this series.

Good point about the Guns coming back to life now though. Maybe i'll go back to the G2 instead of the K4 again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Korolov
05-22-2004, 03:56 PM
Even if 109s had better elevator authority in the past, it wouldn't be enough for me. I tried the 109F-4 today, and that thing just hates going faster than 600kmh. But I must admit it is very competetive in the 300-400kmh regime. I do think the F-4 is a bit more snappy than it should be, but what do I know.

Now, I have a real reason to prefer the A-4 over the F-4 and G-2 - it just has the better high speed handling that makes it a joy to fly for BnZ!

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

BlitzPig_DDT
05-22-2004, 04:14 PM
Well, that sounds like a step in the right direction then.

What do you mean by snappy? Do you mean tendency to spin? Just asking 'cause snappy to me means quick, as in - "make it snappy!".

I find the 109s to have surprising elevator authority now actually. But they aren't alone, seems that every plane, across the board, got mega elevators with hydraulic boost. Almost doesn't matter what it is or what speed you are going, hauling back on the stick will now either black you out or stall you. Looks like it might be time to re-adjust the stick settings again.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

dadada1
05-22-2004, 04:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
Even if 109s had better elevator authority in the past, it wouldn't be enough for me. I tried the 109F-4 today, and that thing just hates going faster than 600kmh. But I must admit it is very competetive in the 300-400kmh regime. I do think the F-4 is a bit more snappy than it should be, but what do I know.

Now, I have a real reason to prefer the A-4 over the F-4 and G-2 - it just has the better high speed handling that makes it a joy to fly for BnZ!

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Have to agree with you about the F4 now, you can turn inside a P40 now which is a shame, surley that can't be correct.

Korolov
05-22-2004, 04:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:
Well, that sounds like a step in the right direction then.

What do you mean by snappy? Do you mean tendency to spin? Just asking 'cause snappy to me means quick, as in - "make it snappy!".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, talking like a 190 pilot. I mean it has a tendency to quickly wing over in a turn, much like the 190 does - aka accelerated stall. I don't think it turns as well as it should, at least from what I've read. It feels heavier than it should be. I always thought the F-4 was considered the best all around 109. Maybe a problem with misidentifying G-2s as F-4s?

dadada1 - Actually I see no evidence that proves the P-40 was a better turner than the F-4.

Overall, I think now it's easy enough to understand why the Fw-190 was considered a easier plane for rookies to master than the Bf-109. Fw-190s are not the best pure dogfighters, but their ability throughout a range of engagement types makes them more competetive than the Bf-109s, which require extreme skill to succeed in the same engagements.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

BlitzPig_DDT
05-22-2004, 04:41 PM
Didn't Kozhedub (sp?) say that the G-2 was the best of the 109s?

I can't help but wonder, personally, if much of what forms our opinions, comes from pilots associating all Gs with the 6 onward, and looking back at the F as an agile plane, as a result of this association.

The difference was something like 2-400 lbs, but the G-2 also had more power too. Seems that it very well could be as we see it.

IDK........just a thought.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Chadburn
05-22-2004, 04:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

I find the 109s to have surprising elevator authority now actually. But they aren't alone, seems that every plane, across the board, got mega elevators with hydraulic boost. Almost doesn't matter what it is or what speed you are going, hauling back on the stick will now either black you out or stall you. Looks like it might be time to re-adjust the stick settings again.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have found no improvement in the elevator control for the 109's at all. I had hoped the new patch would ease up on the exagerated heaviness at moderate speeds, but it's still there. There is ample evidence that the 109's pitch control was not excessively heavy for a WWII fighter, but it seems to be the only plane in the game dogged with this early onset of compression, and at speeds well below 400mph.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/FB_JG27.jpg