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DiamondBlade_R
04-16-2012, 03:49 PM
In the final Truth Cluster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QurE-EzN8vY&t=3m54s) in Brotherhood, Desmond, while exploring the "Animus realm", stumbles across the manifestation of the mind of Clay, who tries to deliver him a message of sorts. He says, "It is far later than you know. To late to save them. She is not who you think she is. Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear - it's already gone! Eden... She... In Eden... Find Eve. The key... Her DNA. [...] The sun... your son." Obviously Clay was trying to deliver a message to Desmond that had some importance to the plot. We know that by saying "she is not who you think she is," 16 was referring to the fact that Lucy had defected to the Templars, and one can only assume that there is importance to the other parts to his message as well. That being said, why the hell was their encounter never addressed again since then? Why hasn't Desmond told Rebecca, Lucy and Shaun about that message from 16? Even weirder is the fact that it was not mentioned by neither Desmond nor Clay during the entire course of Revelations. Not only did neither of them start a conversation about it, it was never even mentioned when Desmond was talking to himself (e.g. when he mourns over Lucy's death the first time we see him in ACR). Could it be that Clay's message was referring to plot details that the writers just decided to drop afterwards?

OriginalMiles
04-16-2012, 03:51 PM
Your point?

freddie_1897
04-16-2012, 04:01 PM
we all know she's a traitor, and this has been discussed before

ShaneO7K
04-16-2012, 04:02 PM
we all know she's a traitor, and this has been discussed before

Many,many times.

UrDeviant1
04-16-2012, 04:06 PM
Many,many times.

Many, many, many, many, many, many times Indeed.

De Filosoof
04-16-2012, 04:09 PM
Why bring this up? Everybody knows about this already.

GLHS
04-16-2012, 04:10 PM
Pointless and repetitive thread is pointless and repetitive -__-

freddie_1897
04-16-2012, 04:13 PM
http://werkinggerl.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/pointless.jpg

DiamondBlade_R
04-16-2012, 05:36 PM
Please read my OP again now. I accidentally pressed Submit before my post was finished. This thread is not about Lucy being a traitor.

GLHS
04-16-2012, 05:43 PM
Well, either way, it's about something that has been discussed 5,000 times. So....it's still pointless.

SaintPerkele
04-16-2012, 05:44 PM
I know many people like to believe that the developers planned the whole plot from the very beginning. I am one of those who believe that certain things were intended, but other parts of the plot were invented much later on or simply forgot about.

The issue you mentioned bugged me too. Besides the fact that Clay, the one who played such a major and mysterious role in the first three games, was just coming out of nowhere being a completely normal guy, he never mentioned anything of the stuff he knew about to Desmond in the Black Room (and from the glyphs and rifts as well as the Truth video and his finale message you talked about, we know that he knows pretty much everything). Maybe his virtual replica is just not interested in explaining things, I don't know. But the whole Subject 16 thing.. It felt entirely wrong to me in Revelations and I'm one of those who actually enjoyed Revelations quite a lot. If somebody would ask me, I'd probably say it's the worst part of Revelations.

DiamondBlade_R
04-16-2012, 05:56 PM
You, sir, would've gotten a Like to this comment if we were on Facebook. :P I completely agree that there are parts of the plot that were made up on the go, the most major one among them being (as I've said many times before) Lucy's defection to the Templars. It just felt so... out of place. "Well, we needed a good cliffhanger for ACB and we decided to kill off Lucy for no reason. What's that? The fans wanna know why she was killed? Well uh, here, have a DLC that shows she was a Templar in a half-assed way."

infamous_ezio
04-16-2012, 11:23 PM
I hope they didn't, the clay part of the AC was what i was hoping would be the 'revelation' in revlelations. His words from the ACB truth still puzzle me. what does he mean by "the sun.. your son" and "it's to late to save them, everything you hold dear, it's alraedy gone"... and the thing about eve and eden, i don't understand it, but i guess no one can really answer it, we will hopefully find out in AC3. I don't think he could have answered those questions to desmond because didn't he forget everything before his suicide? if that's true which i think it is then its a bit odd because apparently the acb truth is the AI version, and he knows all this stuff.. i'm not really sure what to say on the matter, i hope that we get some closure on 16 in AC3 bout this particular topic.

agitatedchimp
04-16-2012, 11:44 PM
I honestly think people are just Ignorant when referring to this subject because they dislike the fact that they don't have all the answer's.
I agree with everything you've said, the whole 16/Lucy thing seems so messed up, Its like "Oh so we're just going to pretend that never happened" I strongly doubt it but hopefully they will make a reference to it in AC3 Explaining all the loose end's.

Locopells
04-17-2012, 12:28 AM
http://werkinggerl.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/pointless.jpg

Where do you find this stuff?!

Poodle_of_Doom
04-17-2012, 01:11 AM
I don't honestly think that we've seen the last of S16 yet. I have a feeling that he was only "Distracting" the Animus a little more. The fact that they'd just delete him seems like a bit of a farse to me. I think he may of had a way to escape, and bury himself deeper in the animus. But that automatically 'causes one to assume that he's not already burried under the Animus programing from the get go.

DiamondBlade_R
04-17-2012, 07:40 AM
I hope they didn't, the clay part of the AC was what i was hoping would be the 'revelation' in revlelations. His words from the ACB truth still puzzle me. what does he mean by "the sun.. your son" and "it's to late to save them, everything you hold dear, it's alraedy gone"... and the thing about eve and eden, i don't understand it, but i guess no one can really answer it, we will hopefully find out in AC3. I don't think he could have answered those questions to desmond because didn't he forget everything before his suicide? if that's true which i think it is then its a bit odd because apparently the acb truth is the AI version, and he knows all this stuff.. i'm not really sure what to say on the matter, i hope that we get some closure on 16 in AC3 bout this particular topic.
There's something I feel that needs to be established: when your consciousness gets transferred into the Animus, it's your consciousness. It's you, not an "AI clone". That's why while his consciousness was in the Animus, Desmond retained his memories from before his consciousness was transferred into it. That being said, it would probably be wrong to assume that 16 wasn't able to do the same and retain his memories from before his physical body died.

infamous_ezio
04-17-2012, 08:37 AM
There's something I feel that needs to be established: when your consciousness gets transferred into the Animus, it's your consciousness. It's you, not an "AI clone". That's why while his consciousness was in the Animus, Desmond retained his memories from before his consciousness was transferred into it. That being said, it would probably be wrong to assume that 16 wasn't able to do the same and retain his memories from before his physical body died.

I'm pretty sure it has been established that he has no recollection of everything up to his suicide.. hm strange, nothing really adds up.

DiamondBlade_R
04-17-2012, 08:47 AM
I'm pretty sure it has been established that he has no recollection of everything up to his suicide.. hm strange, nothing really adds up.
Of course he has recollection of everything up to his physical suicide - that's how and why he was able to record the later Glyphs and Rifts. Some of those were recorded onto the Memory Core after his physical death, when he already transferred his consciousness into the Animus. That's why it's so weird that he never addressed those Glyphs and Rifts when he met Desmond in Revelations.

infamous_ezio
04-17-2012, 09:37 AM
They were uploaded before his suicide. Hmm yeah, i guess the writers need to assume that not everyone has done the truth, because technically it is a side thing, but yet what he said is such a big part of the story, i think they should made it necessary to pass the game, or hopefully they plan on implementing all this info in ac3. As we know it desmond needs to find this woman.. so i guess thats related to what 16 said about eve and eden.

DiamondBlade_R
04-17-2012, 09:40 AM
They were uploaded before his suicide. Hmm yeah, i guess the writers need to assume that not everyone has done the truth, because technically it is a side thing, but yet what he said is such a big part of the story, i think they should made it necessary to pass the game, or hopefully they plan on implementing all this info in ac3. As we know it desmond needs to find this woman.. so i guess thats related to what 16 said about eve and eden.
The first batch of Glyphs and Riffs was uploaded by 16 before his suicide, while some of the later ones were uploaded after it. At least that's how I understood things.

cless711
04-17-2012, 10:13 AM
If you remember, in the last scene that we see Clay, Clay does something to Desmond and then lets him go. I believe Clay is responsible for *spoilers* Desmond's glowing arm at the end of revelations. *end spoilers*

I could be speculating too much, but i am not sure.. But i do think that Clay did something to Desmond before he got deleted.

DiamondBlade_R
04-17-2012, 10:23 AM
What glowing arm? I don't remember Desmond's arm glowing at the end. O.O
Any chance for a screenshot?

cless711
04-17-2012, 10:40 AM
yep~

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj263/Cless_photo/DesmondsArm.png

LightRey
04-17-2012, 01:12 PM
If you remember, in the last scene that we see Clay, Clay does something to Desmond and then lets him go. I believe Clay is responsible for *spoilers* Desmond's glowing arm at the end of revelations. *end spoilers*

I could be speculating too much, but i am not sure.. But i do think that Clay did something to Desmond before he got deleted.
No!
Those were completely different markings and the devs already said S16 is gone and won't be coming back. The markings on Desmond's arm at the end of ACR resemble those on the bodies of Adam and Eve.

It has to do with his TWCB DNA as Jupiter literally says: "Take my words from your head to your hands". That is what happened.

cless711
04-17-2012, 03:35 PM
No!
Those were completely different markings and the devs already said S16 is gone and won't be coming back. The markings on Desmond's arm at the end of ACR resemble those on the bodies of Adam and Eve.

It has to do with his TWCB DNA as Jupiter literally says: "Take my words from your had to your hands". That is what happened.

Okay okay! Lol xD no need to get mad. I was a little confused, but now i know what really happened. So thank you LightRey.

LightRey
04-17-2012, 04:15 PM
Okay okay! Lol xD no need to get mad. I was a little confused, but now i know what really happened. So thank you LightRey.
Ok, good. I had to go through an entire discussion about this a while ago. It was annoying.

Poodle_of_Doom
04-17-2012, 05:20 PM
no!
Those were completely different markings and the devs already said s16 is gone and won't be coming back. The markings on desmond's arm at the end of acr resemble those on the bodies of adam and eve.

It has to do with his twcb dna as jupiter literally says: "take my words from your head to your hands". that is what happened.

You're wrong!! He will be back!!! Gah!!!!!

zerocooll21
04-17-2012, 07:59 PM
You're wrong!! He will be back!!! Gah!!!!!

Hahahahahahaa!

Acrimonious_Nin
04-18-2012, 01:15 AM
yep~

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj263/Cless_photo/DesmondsArm.png

This blue 'carvings' look more like the same design that Clay left when he hugged Desmond.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111208000257/assassinscreed/images/5/5b/Clay_Saving_Desmond.png
And looks nothing like the 'suits' that Adam and Eve are using which have lines, not shaped markings.

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/2/2d/Adam_and_Eve.png

Eve's suit has lines. Even on her left arm the lines are straight. Desmond's markings are all complex and almost look like as if their is a message and, or symbols on it....

cless711
04-18-2012, 01:56 AM
This blue 'carvings' look more like the same design that Clay left when he hugged Desmond.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111208000257/assassinscreed/images/5/5b/Clay_Saving_Desmond.png
And looks nothing like the 'suits' that Adam and Eve are using which have lines, not shaped markings.

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/2/2d/Adam_and_Eve.png

Eve's suit has lines. Even on her left arm the lines are straight. Desmond's markings are all complex and almost look like as if their is a message and, or symbols on it....

Thats why i thought clay had to do something with his arm. But i guess i am wrong about that xD Still silently speculating about it though. I won't come to conclusions until AC3 comes out and answers my questions..

LightRey
04-18-2012, 02:03 AM
This blue 'carvings' look more like the same design that Clay left when he hugged Desmond.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111208000257/assassinscreed/images/5/5b/Clay_Saving_Desmond.png
And looks nothing like the 'suits' that Adam and Eve are using which have lines, not shaped markings.

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/2/2d/Adam_and_Eve.png

Eve's suit has lines. Even on her left arm the lines are straight. Desmond's markings are all complex and almost look like as if their is a message and, or symbols on it....
-__-
First of all, you're using a picture of pathetic quality for The Truth. Second, as you can clearly see on your second picture, which not only didn't appear on desmond's body, but on his clothes and they only appear directly under S16's arms, but they are (clearly) of varying thicknesses, looking more like cracks or lightning than straight lines, while the markings on Desmond's arm, though seemingly more angular than those on the bodies of Adam and Eve, are made up from straight lines of equal thickness everywhere and they're actually on his body, not his clothes.

So here you have:

Desmond's arm
1. The markings on Desmond's arm are on his physical body.
2. The markings on Desmond's arm consist of straight lines forming geometric shapes.
3. The markings on Desmond's arm appear to be of equal brightness thickness everywhere.
4. The markings on Desmond's arm are blue.

Adam and Eve
1. The markings on the bodies of Adam and Eve, like those on Desmond's arm, consist of straight lines and seem to form similar geometric shapes.
2. The markings on the bodies of Adam and Eve appear to be of equal brightness and thickness everywhere.
3. The markings on the bodies of Adam and Eve appear to have the same color as those on Desmond's arm.
4. The markings on the bodies of Adam and Eve are, like those on Desmond's arm, on their physical bodies (duh).
5. The markings on Desmond's arm are seemingly more angular than those on Adam and Eve's bodies.

When Clay "hugs" Desmond
1. The markings on Desmond's clothes are blue.
2. The markings on Desmond's clothes are similarly angular to those on Desmond's arm.
3. The markings on Desmond's clothes are only visible on Desmond's clothes (duh).
4. The markings on Desmond's clothes are only under where Clay's arms are holding him.
5. The markings on Desmond's clothes are of varying thickness and brightness, unlike those on his arm.
6. The markings on Desmond's clothes do not consist of straight lines, nor do they seem to form any consistent geometric shapes.

Legend
Similar to the markings on Desmond's arm
Different to the markings on Desmond's arm

Now please tell me again why you think it's more similar to the markings on his clothes, especially considering the fact that the devs said Clay won't be making a return in ACIII in any way, nor will he be responsible for the new "glyphs".

Acrimonious_Nin
04-18-2012, 02:18 AM
-__-
First of all, you're using a picture of pathetic quality for The Truth. Second, as you can clearly see on your second picture, which not only didn't appear on desmond's body, but on his clothes and they only appear directly under S16's arms, but they are (clearly) of varying thicknesses, looking more like cracks or lightning than straight lines, while the markings on Desmond's arm, though seemingly more angular than those on the bodies of Adam and Eve, are made up from straight lines of equal thickness everywhere and they're actually on his body, not his clothes.

So here you have:

Desmond's arm
1. The markings on Desmond's arm are on his physical body.
2. The markings on Desmond's arm consist of straight lines forming geometric shapes.
3. The markings on Desmond's arm appear to be of equal brightness thickness everywhere.
4. The markings on Desmond's arm are blue.

Adam and Eve
1. The markings on the bodies of Adam and Eve, like those on Desmond's arm, consist of straight lines and seem to form similar geometric shapes.
2. The markings on the bodies of Adam and Eve appear to be of equal brightness and thickness everywhere.
3. The markings on the bodies of Adam and Eve appear to have the same color as those on Desmond's arm.
4. The markings on the bodies of Adam and Eve are, like those on Desmond's arm, on their physical bodies (duh).
5. The markings on Desmond's arm are seemingly more angular than those on Adam and Eve's bodies.

When Clay "hugs" Desmond
1. The markings on Desmond's clothes are blue.
2. The markings on Desmond's clothes are similarly angular to those on Desmond's arm.
3. The markings on Desmond's clothes are only visible on Desmond's clothes (duh).
4. The markings on Desmond's clothes are only under where Clay's arms are holding him.
5. The markings on Desmond's clothes are of varying thickness and brightness, unlike those on his arm.
6. The markings on Desmond's clothes do not consist of straight lines, nor do they seem to form any consistent geometric shapes.

Legend
Similar to the markings on Desmond's arm
Different to the markings on Desmond's arm

Now please tell me again why you think it's more similar to the markings on his clothes, especially considering the fact that the devs said Clay won't be making a return in ACIII in any way, nor will he be responsible for the new "glyphs".



Ah ! I see that you have a point. This leads me to conclude a new speculation. The new glyphs in AC3 must be from TWCB. As Desmond has been ''Awakened'' lets say unless you have a better word for what happened to Desmond when his arm turned blue(clearly this must be what Jupiter did to Desmond) what ever is in his arm(the blue stuff) must in someway interact with the animus 3.0(In AC2 Rebecca sticks that ''animus cord'' in Desmond right arm). Maybe ??? something there? maybe?

LightRey
04-18-2012, 02:24 AM
Ah ! I see that you have a point. This leads me to conclude a new speculation. The new glyphs in AC3 must be from TWCB. As Desmond has been ''Awakened'' lets say unless you have a better word for what happened to Desmond when his arm turned blue(clearly this must be what Jupiter did to Desmond) what ever is in his arm(the blue stuff) must in someway interact with the animus 3.0(In AC2 Rebecca sticks that ''animus cord'' in Desmond right arm). Maybe ??? something there? maybe?
I'm thinking the same thing, though I'm not so sure about the cord. My guess is that either Jupiter transferred some of his knowledge to Desmond or the apple contains information which Desmond can unlock with his new abilities.

Acrimonious_Nin
04-18-2012, 02:34 AM
Yeah, I see what your saying. Makes sense.

Poodle_of_Doom
04-18-2012, 03:04 AM
Wow.... LightRey dropped a knowledge bomb,......

infamous_ezio
04-18-2012, 04:05 AM
just saying... these markings on desmond's arm could mean nothing but just that he was awaken the sixth... lol why speculate so much about it.. you guys are speculating way to much... their gonna stick something in his right arm? lol

GLHS
04-18-2012, 08:21 AM
No, they definitely mean something, and are directly related to what we'll be doing with him in AC3. That's why they're there, and a result of Desmond awakening the sixth and finding his synch nexus.

infamous_ezio
04-18-2012, 08:43 AM
No, they definitely mean something, and are directly related to what we'll be doing with him in AC3. That's why they're there, and a result of Desmond awakening the sixth and finding his synch nexus.

that's what i said, it's their to symbolize that he has "awakened the sixth".

LightRey
04-18-2012, 01:56 PM
just saying... these markings on desmond's arm could mean nothing but just that he was awaken the sixth... lol why speculate so much about it.. you guys are speculating way to much... their gonna stick something in his right arm? lol
Speculation (if acknowledged as such) >>>>>> complaining

infamous_ezio
04-18-2012, 02:04 PM
Speculation (if acknowledged as such) >>>>>> complaining

I'm not complaining....

LightRey
04-18-2012, 02:08 PM
I'm not complaining....
I'm not saying you are, but on this forum that's basically what people seem to like to do instead of speculating.

cless711
04-18-2012, 02:09 PM
Speculation (if acknowledged as such) >>>>>> complaining

Don't see anyone complaining, to be honest xD

LightRey
04-18-2012, 02:14 PM
Don't see anyone complaining, to be honest xD
I'm not talking about this thread specifically.

infamous_ezio
04-18-2012, 02:38 PM
I'm not saying you are, but on this forum that's basically what people seem to like to do instead of speculating.

haha, yeah that's true.