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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 04:14 AM
Anybody notice how tough it is to bring down a stuka? I thought it was relatively easy to kill, especially the early versions. the tail gunners are snipers too!

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/insignia/italy/incocca-tende-scaglia.jpg
Saluti!
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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 04:14 AM
Anybody notice how tough it is to bring down a stuka? I thought it was relatively easy to kill, especially the early versions. the tail gunners are snipers too!

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/insignia/italy/incocca-tende-scaglia.jpg
Saluti!
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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 04:18 AM
Stukas were well known for being rugged,however I've never had a big problem bringing 'em down....

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 04:21 AM
Hmmmmm. In VEF, I flew the MiG 3 ud and with its armament, could not get a definite kill, got em smoking, but no kill. Both times had to break off cause the snipers got my engine smoking.

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/insignia/italy/incocca-tende-scaglia.jpg
Saluti!
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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 04:29 AM
I can usually get the landing gear off and maybe a wing or two. Then again,I often fly the P-47 so maybe that explains it.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<center>47|FC <img src="http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg"<

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 05:43 AM
I killed two in a P.11. Still, its hard to get them.

Aim for the engine or the wingroot if you can.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 05:48 AM
Junkers aircraft are famous for their strong construction, durability and reliability and easy maintenance, not in the least model 87.

If you look further than the "BoB Myth" you find that the Ju-87 could take an astounding amount of damage.
Stuka pilots felt much safer than their colleagues flying the nimble Me-109's.

(Ref: Stukasquadron 77 by Peter C Smith ISBN 1-85260-286-4)



http://www.mach2.hpg.ig.com.br/Imagens/1939%20S%E9rgio%20Luis/BR_Junkers_01.jpg





<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon coming to an airbase near you. = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 06:26 AM
Try downing one in a Hurricane. YOu got to hold the trigger down for 5 seconds. Plenty of time for the rear gunner to get you!

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:30 AM
Reason people have trouble with the Stuka is a lack of patience. Just get them smoking and then back-off and let the damage take the toll. It may not be instantaneous, but they'll go down. It doesn't have to fly to pieces to be a kill.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg



--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 09:31 AM
If you use cannons, Stukas loose their wings easily and PK's are also quite normal. With MG's you really cannot do much to Stuka, engine and pilot are the only weak spots to pea shooters.

mike_espo wrote:
- Anybody notice how tough it is to bring down a
- stuka? I thought it was relatively easy to kill,
- especially the early versions. the tail gunners are
- snipers too!

I wouldn't call Stukas rear gunners snipers, they cannot hit anything. I fly a lot with Stukas online and I prefer to shoot back myself. It is easy to hit a big target trying to follow and turn with you. With that amount of ammo, pilot hits and engine damage to the following fighter is bound to happen. BTW Migs are the easiest fighters to shoot down with Stukas rear gunner IMHO.

LeOs.K_Polkku

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 02:41 PM
A.K.Davis wrote:
- Reason people have trouble with the Stuka is a lack
- of patience. Just get them smoking and then
- back-off and let the damage take the toll. It may
- not be instantaneous, but they'll go down. It
- doesn't have to fly to pieces to be a kill.
-


I agree. The problem here is often if you leave a smoker to die its horrible death, someone else will often see the smoke and come in to give the "coups de gras". Happens to me everytime I fly.




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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 03:44 PM
smoking plane is a kill.

rear gunner has really bad narrow arc of fire, no reason to ever let him shoot you.

aim for the engine with machineguns, when it gives the dark smoke chalk it up as a kill (I have never been able to rtb with a fuel leak in a stuka, so chalk the light mist as a kill too).

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 03:52 PM
Thanks for the replys. I was under the BoB myth and the "stuka parties" as Johnnie Johnson states in his book. I tried to kill one with the Hurr 1938 and I did get em black with smoke but I know that with fighters it don't neccessarily mean a kill. so I try to give the coup de gras and boom hit by tailgunner.

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/insignia/italy/incocca-tende-scaglia.jpg
Saluti!
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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 03:59 PM
Interesting to learn that Stukas were not as fragile as we've been told. Certainly the game reflects that, although a nasty piece of flak will take off a wing in a hurry (if you're flying one!).

I ran up against a pack of Stukas attacking ships in a FMB scenario in my Hurricane MkIIB (MGs no cannon). I managed to force one Stuka to ditch in the water. Frankly, I'd rather go after Bf 110s. Hit their wing-mounted engine, and that's it for them!

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 04:13 PM
To Americans, it was relatively easy to bring down a stuka due to the rugged firepower of the multiple browning .50 cals. In most respects though, the bent wing created a very nice center of Gravity, and in order to really damage the plane, this Center of Gravity needed to be weakened. This center of Gravity also was a main component of the "auto recover" ability of the stuka, it trims itself based on this center of Gravity. Anyway, That's why I always aim through the rear gunner on a stuka, it splits the Center of Gravity, and weakens it, and, if I'm lucky, kills the rear gunner.

Boosher-PBNA
----------------
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Boosher-ProudBirds-VFW
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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 04:17 PM
Good tip!


Boosher-PBNA wrote:
- That's why I
- always aim through the rear gunner on a stuka, it
- splits the Center of Gravity, and weakens it, and,
- if I'm lucky, kills the rear gunner.
-

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 04:35 PM
Some RAF friends complained about how the Stuka was overmodeled in a BoB campaign i started and i wrote this to explain them how to kill a stuka EASILY with a Huricane 1938 as many of them thought such a scenario was heavy odds against RAF side because of the Hurricane 'underdog' when facing stukas and 109E :


***************************************

To kill Stukas in FB you have to do the same way real RAF pilots did
during BoB.

1 - kill the gunner
2 - finish the Stuka

To do so use the 8 MG to spray all your bullets into the rear gunner at

the first pass.
Dive from high six so he can not hit you AND you keep SPEED advantage
AND Bf109E will not catch you easily.

Here are some screen shot showing the gunner killed when i attak Stukas in

a hurricane MkI (the one from Bader during BoB if i recall correct).


http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_stuka_3.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_stuka_4.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_stuka_5.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_stuka_6.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_stuka_7.jpg

Now that the gunner is out ( you never know when a gunner of Stuka is

killed as there is no external signs except that it wont fire back,
but a solid burst into the fuselage of the stuka will do the job fine),

pass to tactic no 2 :
Finish him.

To do so you have to put it into flames.
This is done by aiming here on the particular points (use the 8 MG
to spray some bullets in the area where wing join fuselage and it
will work like in the movies dont be shy with MG bullets : you have plenty

of them so use them).

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_stuka_1.jpg
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_stuka_2.jpg

You can wtach the tracks here : i did many because i know some
of you may day : you are just lucky and did it only once.
Notice i dont attack on first pass because i want you to see that
the Stuka do have ammunitions on rear MG , so you dont accuse me of killing

unarmed Stuka.

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/stuka_1.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/stuka_2.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/stuka_3.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/stuka_4.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/stuka_5.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/stuka_6.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/stuka_7.ntrk

After that you will never say the Stuka is over armored and can not
easily be killed by a hurricane MKI.
Plus note that those Stukas are set at medium level and you will only
meet rookie in the bob campaign and AI can drive plane like human can
not : once you put some holes in a Stuka Wing a human player can hardly
manoeuver again. (much much harder than what AI can do).


Now before you start saying : OK we can kill the Stukas But HE111 is much

harder.

I will tell you how to kill EASILY any HE111.

The principle is the same here : so like real RAF pilots did.

1- take out the gunners one by one or better all at a time
2- finish the plane and the quickest way is to kill the pilot


The gunner that ay harm you are top turret and waist left and right.
Kill the gunners and you can finish the He111 at will by high six diving

pass.

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_1.jpg

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_2.jpg


Then the pilot :

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_3.jpg

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_4.jpg


To kill the gunners yo uhave to aim to the fuselage and fire all
alog the fuselage using your 8 MG fast firing.
When you shoot shoot to kill, no small burst especially if you are a
bad gunner.
Only if you are a godd gunner you can save ammo.
Shoot long burst into the fuselage and the gunners will be silenced.

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_5.jpg

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_6.jpg

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_8.jpg

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_9.jpg

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_10.jpg

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_11.jpg


Then kill the pilot :

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/raf_tip_he111_7.jpg


The traks are here :

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/he111_1.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/he111_2.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/he111_3.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/he111_4.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/he111_5.ntrk
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/he111_6.ntrk


But i have also another thing to tell you, if you still think you
are the good pilots but the hurricane is a underdog EVEN when fighting the 109E then Jabos will play RAF side next week.
And we can even finish the campaign playing British side while
RAF_Smokyda bear and his friends can use the UBER plane me109E.

I really started that campaign to give FUN to BOTH teams.
And the missions are FAIR.

Oh and i forgot to mention : my tracks do show TOTAL kills but
to prevent any bomber to launch his bombs on target a small
burst is enough to make it release his bombs anywhere.

Plus only few hits put out of action engines on He111 which can than not come home anymore and so you can save ammo to kill 109E escort.

If you are a bad gunner dont do the error to put all your ammo in a bomber because you want the immediate kill. If you are a bad gunner just make him smoke his engines and he WILL NOT come back so your duty is done.


Tex

PS: here are the missions i used to do the tracks.
(Bomber medium level.)

Ps: be care ful when reading my posts, i'm french and not english native so my words may be incorrect, i do not speak fluently english.

http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/mis_he111.zip
http://www.ifrance.com/jabotex/raf/mis_stuka.zip

Message Edited on 11/06/03 03:38PM by JaboTex

Message Edited on 11/06/0303:41PM by JaboTex