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Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 02:51 AM
SO...after reading the ANIMUS MEMO from TLA I figured, what are the chances that S. has a hire up ? the lowest to highest templar ranks (in AC universe) you have the....

Abstergo initiated recruits > Warren Vidic(maybe others at this rank) > Alan Rikkin > S. > then ???? maybe this guy?

Pope Benedict the XVI

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Benedykt_XVI_(2010-10-17)_4.jpg/414px-Benedykt_XVI_(2010-10-17)_4.jpg

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 03:06 AM
I doubt It.

The Knights Templar stopped using the Church to further their cause In modern times.

Instead they prefer to use powerful, private companies owned by themselves as a Ruse.

Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 03:41 AM
I doubt It.

The Knights Templar stopped using the Church to further their cause In modern times.

Instead they prefer to use powerful, private companies owned by themselves as a Ruse.

Sure about that? where are you sources to back up your opinion?

PhonedZero
04-14-2012, 03:49 AM
I doubt It.

The Knights Templar stopped using the Church to further their cause In modern times.

Instead they prefer to use powerful, private companies owned by themselves as a Ruse.

This should be good for a laugh!

Ureh
04-14-2012, 04:28 AM
Sure about that? where are you sources to back up your opinion?

I remember a few of the ACB Glyph files containing correspondence between Templars. Don't remember the specifics, but they own major companies (like satellite/cable, medicine, cars, energy resources, etc) and manipulate world governments. Iirc, one of the files briefings explained that they used the U.S. Government as a scapegoat during an incident in South America (might be wrong, but I think they were stealing oil?). Not sure if there's more of this stuff in ACR (haven't played it yet).

Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 04:30 AM
ANIMUS MEMO

January 2008

First quarter Briefing on Abstergo Lab Facility Progress
Animus Project
Vatican City

In brief:
- Request to allocate 25% of $960,000,000 annual Abstergo R&D budget to the project approved. Note that this marks a 50% increase

then alot of statistics and notes and reports then....


I will run through the specificts in person with you next week

Warren Vidic


I am going to assume that they are meeting at the Vatican, but who? who could be at the vatican with big hat? I believe that there is a reason that Vidic is going to visit someone big in the Vatican to talk about Templar future plans, being that vidic is high enough in the ranks to know the grand master of all the Templars. I believe that the Templars might even launch the satellite from the Vatican. I believe that the pope is the highest rank in the Templar order in the AC universe.

Analysis:

First quarter briefing on Abstergo lab facility progress----who is Abstergo briefing as to their most secret animus project, that no ordinary Abstergo employee can not know about, in the Vatican?

maybe S. is the assassins creed universe equivalent to ''Pope Benedict the XVI'' in the Vatican in reality. Would that mean historical inaccuracy ? ubisoft inaccurate ? nahhh lol

Ureh
04-14-2012, 04:40 AM
Could be. I'm not sure how impregnable the Vault under St. Peter's is, but it could be that they're just maintaining an interest in that place because they've been unsuccessful in extracting the Staff and info from Minerva. Maybe they're digging an underground tunnel from an underground facility that existed there when they did control the church, which means they solely operate under the Vatican (not in it). :p:o

Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 04:55 AM
Could be. I'm not sure how impregnable the Vault under St. Peter's is, but it could be that they're just maintaining an interest in that place because they've been unsuccessful in extracting the Staff and info from Minerva. Maybe they're digging an underground tunnel from an underground facility that existed there when they did control the church, which means they solely operate under the Vatican (not in it). :p:o

source:
Assassins creed brotherhood : rift 2
"They become increasingly aware of our existence. We can no longer rely on the divine right of the aristocracy to maintain control. We need a new system, something much more subtle."

maybe you are getting confused with their plan to change how they maintain control ? Not where their main HQ is located. This quote has nothing to do with them not relying on the church, but on how they can no longer rely on the divine right of the aristocracy to maintain control. Once again, this has nothing to do with my original post. next time use actual facts based on actuality to back up your abstract beliefs. It would make you make sense. Everything you said is purely speculation, and nothing is backed up with actual facts just personal beliefs guided by abstract bias. :D

freddie_1897
04-14-2012, 09:22 AM
Of they said pope benedict was the most powerful, most evil man in the world, then there would be an uprising

lukaszep
04-14-2012, 09:36 AM
Sure about that? where are you sources to back up your opinion?

It's not his opinion. It's part of the story, and always has been. It's common knowledge.

Ureh
04-14-2012, 10:18 AM
source:
Assassins creed brotherhood : rift 2
"They become increasingly aware of our existence. We can no longer rely on the divine right of the aristocracy to maintain control. We need a new system, something much more subtle."

maybe you are getting confused with their plan to change how they maintain control ? Not where their main HQ is located. This quote has nothing to do with them not relying on the church, but on how they can no longer rely on the divine right of the aristocracy to maintain control. Once again, this has nothing to do with my original post. next time use actual facts based on actuality to back up your abstract beliefs. It would make you make sense. Everything you said is purely speculation, and nothing is backed up with actual facts just personal beliefs guided by abstract bias. :D

You're right, my second post was really mostly a joke backed up by nothing. But I didn't mean to say that their main HQ is under the Vatican, just one of their many hideouts that was constructed long ago. I'm saying that they have no remaining connections with the Church but merely operate under the actual city because they know there's a Vault nearby. But again, this is just loose speculation.

As for the quote you provided above. I interpret "divine right of the aristocracy" as the authority of the Church (which I think is/was an aristocracy). So I believe that quote implies that the Templars no longer have ties with the church. The Templars have other effective means of control and don't seem to need the Church anymore. I can't remember if they specify when/who it was from. I could be wrong of course.

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 12:41 PM
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Templars

Nothing there^ suggests that the Templar's still use the Church post 1937, when Abstergo Industries was founded.

The e-mail given In this thread Is to vague to suggest that the Church are still being used as a major cover-up for the Templar's.

Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 02:59 PM
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Templars

Nothing there^ suggests that the Templar's still use the Church post 1937, when Abstergo Industries was founded.

The e-mail given In this thread Is to vague to suggest that the Church are still being used as a major cover-up for the Templar's.

UrDeviant1, understand that I am not talking about a cover-up, I am implying where the highest power that gives the OK, or the orders for the modern Templar come from. Which has almost nothing to do with how they control the people, but how they operate within themselves. The 'Pope' probably tells Abstergo what the main goal of the Templar operations are about, then Abstergo with their power in media, and market etc. make the Templar dream happen. Get it ?


You're right, my second post was really mostly a joke backed up by nothing. But I didn't mean to say that their main HQ is under the Vatican, just one of their many hideouts that was constructed long ago. I'm saying that they have no remaining connections with the Church but merely operate under the actual city because they know there's a Vault nearby. But again, this is just loose speculation.

As for the quote you provided above. I interpret "divine right of the aristocracy" as the authority of the Church (which I think is/was an aristocracy). So I believe that quote implies that the Templars no longer have ties with the church. The Templars have other effective means of control and don't seem to need the Church anymore. I can't remember if they specify when/who it was from. I could be wrong of course.

Yes you are right, most of Europe, if not all, was under a monarchy placed in power by 'divine right' to impose their divine law/authority. The monarchy usually had a religion supporting them. during the 18th century, the age of enlightenment, let us say in the American revolution the colonials were escaping monarchy oppression from the freedom to believe in what ever religion you wanted to(and escaping their authority all together.) once the Americans got a seperation of church and state going on the french were like, ''hell yeah!", so the American revolution influenced France to revolt against their corrupt monarchy as well. At this point in history 1790's no one wanted the church involved with their politics. If you do your research, search up Paul the first of Russia. Look at his affiliation. He was a tyrannical, Grand master of the Order of Malta. A knight hospitalar put into power by way of church influence. In 1801 he was assassinated. I wonder why.....XDSo point is the church had friends that were aristocratic, or had influence over the people, making themselves somewhat aristocratic to influence people to some degree.My point was if S. = Pope Benedict XVI...One imagine if people say the P.B XVI is the Grand Master, you know how many people in Italy would find a reason to hate the guy more than they do now? lmao...so S. is never heard about he is as mysterious as anyone who is 'Pope' rank. its about who is the current grand master speculation not who has or does not have control in the church, because clearly the control is within '' the walls of the 21st century''( the market). That does not mean that they do not follow the tradition to keep HQ in or under the Vatican.

EDIT: FUN FACT:The Bavarian Illuminati, around this era, in Germany, wanted to get rid of the Jesuits that, through religion, governed politics. They too wanted to get the church out of German business, but in the end all got hunted down, persecuted in other words. They were heretics in the eyes of the divine ruling that governed their area, a.k.a the church or Jesuits, and the aristocracy.

LightRey
04-14-2012, 03:06 PM
Though I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Templars had close connections with the Catholic Church, especially considering the Abstergo facility in the Vatican, but I do not think the pope is that far up the ladder. Especially if we consider the fact that the Templars, like the Assassins, have been operating more and more underground over the centuries. I think it's unlikely that such a public figure would be the head or even that important a member of such a secretive organization.

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 03:13 PM
UrDeviant1, understand that I am not talking about a cover-up, I am implying where the highest power that gives the OK, or the orders for the modern Templar come from. Which has almost nothing to do with how they control the people, but how they operate within themselves. The 'Pope' probably tells Abstergo what the main goal of the Templar operations are about, then Abstergo with their power in media, and market etc. make the Templar dream happen. Get it ?

Ah ok. But I wouldn't say It Is the Pope who "probably" gives the go ahead for Abstergo, or Is their leader of some kind. It's just as likely to be Alan Rikkin (the CEO of Abstergo), as he Is actually the one who oversees operation at the company.

I don't think It's ever been said outright who the modern-day Grand Master Is, so your suggestion Is possible I guess.

Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 03:25 PM
Though I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Templars had close connections with the Catholic Church, especially considering the Abstergo facility in the Vatican, but I do not think the pope is that far up the ladder. Especially if we consider the fact that the Templars, like the Assassins, have been operating more and more underground over the centuries. I think it's unlikely that such a public figure would be the head or even that important a member of such a secretive organization.

Yes you have a point, but what about Rodrigo Borgia, was he not the pope and the leader of a secret organization? Clay in the beginning of AC:R says, " ....not like those templars, cold and calculating autocrats, drunk on power, obsessed with order and all that.'' I would not doubt that they still like the feeling of being a public figure, but that is just my speculation.


Ah ok. But I wouldn't say It Is the Pope who "probably" gives the go ahead for Abstergo, or Is their leader of some kind. It's just as likely to be Alan Rikkin (the CEO of Abstergo), as he Is actually the one who oversees operation at the company.

I don't think It's ever been said outright who the modern-day Grand Master Is, so your suggestion Is possible I guess.

If Alan Rikkin is the top honcho. Then who is S.

LightRey
04-14-2012, 03:28 PM
Yes you have a point, but what about Rodrigo Borgia, was he not the pope and the leader of a secret organization? Clay in the beginning of AC:R says, " ....not like those templars, cold and calculating autocrats, drunk on power, obsessed with order and all that.'' I would not doubt that they still like the feeling of being a public figure, but that is just my speculation.



If Alan Rikkin is the top honcho. Then who is S.
It's true that Rodrigo was pope, but his successors were enemies to the Borgia and by the time Cesare died almost all Borgia influence had been eradicated from Rome.

rileypoole1234
04-14-2012, 03:31 PM
Yes you have a point, but what about Rodrigo Borgia, was he not the pope and the leader of a secret organization? Clay in the beginning of AC:R says, " ....not like those templars, cold and calculating autocrats, drunk on power, obsessed with order and all that.'' I would not doubt that they still like the feeling of being a public figure, but that is just my speculation.

I thought Rodrigo became Pope after he was the leader. I thought he became Pope almost for protection. I may be wrong though, I haven't played AC2 in a while.

Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 03:36 PM
I thought Rodrigo became Pope after he was the leader. I thought he became Pope almost for protection. I may be wrong though, I haven't played AC2 in a while.

>_> Ok, he was grand master and then became Pope. Maybe he was ''drunk off of power'' like Clay states generally about Templars in the beginning of AC:R.


It's true that Rodrigo was pope, but his successors were enemies to the Borgia and by the time Cesare died almost all Borgia influence had been eradicated from Rome.

So who would you say merits the title "Leader of the Templars", where is he most likely 'hanging out', and what is his general role in all this?

rileypoole1234
04-14-2012, 03:43 PM
>_> Ok, he was grand master and then became Pope. Maybe he was ''drunk off of power'' like Clay states generally about Templars in the beginning of AC:R.

This is what I thought.

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 03:50 PM
If Alan Rikkin is the top honcho. Then who is S.

I don't know. I'v just read through the Memo and found no mention of "S." ??

Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 03:55 PM
I don't know. I'v just read through the Memo and found no mention of "S." ??

S. was not in the memo, that is the part where I am speculating, I could most likely be completely wrong, but using these sources to come to a conclusion is better than just guessing blindly. I am just saying maybe the pope or maybe S. is in or under the Vatican. I do not know. Just like my OP implies, maybe the pope is the head of it all, or maybe S. is the AC universe's equivalent to 'pope' status.

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 04:08 PM
S. was not in the memo, that is the part where I am speculating, I could most likely be completely wrong, but using these sources to come to a conclusion is better than just guessing blindly. I am just saying maybe the pope or maybe S. is in or under the Vatican. I do not know. Just like my OP implies, maybe the pope is the head of it all, or maybe S. is the AC universe's equivalent to 'pope' status.

Oh. Judging by the OP I assumed S. was mentioned In the Memo. Is "S." referenced anywhere else In the AC universe?

dxsxhxcx
04-14-2012, 04:21 PM
Oh. Judging by the OP I assumed S. was mentioned In the Memo. Is "S." referenced anywhere else In the AC universe?

if I'm not wrong he/she's mentioned in the email on the Abstergo website

Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 04:28 PM
Oh. Judging by the OP I assumed S. was mentioned In the Memo. Is "S." referenced anywhere else In the AC universe?

umm. >_> if you read the abstergo e-mails from the Abstergo industries website, you will see a few emails with him involved in the convorsation when matters get 'sticky' for abstergo, like when they needed to find shaun I believe S. intervened, not sure, but you should go read the emails aswell to be sure of his position in the Templar ranks..and by the tone of S.'s emails he seems so important that he does not want to be bothered. So I assumed he was important. Alan Rikkin is also in the emails and it seems to me that Alan Rikkin gets orders from S. , so...>_> I think I need to do a bit more research huh? lmao XD

SUBJECT: EYE- ABSTERGO
S.
Eye-Abstergo
December 13, 2010 16:30
To: Abstergo Industries
Associates at Abstergo Industries,
We are embarking on an exciting new research and development project that will bear fruit in as little as two years. A new technology has been discovered that will allow us to manufacture a satellite providing global coverage. Many of you have complained about the delays and breaks in communication through our current phone, internet and video-conferencing services, so this should solve all those problems.
Those who have been briefed privately on the specifics of the operation need not read on, but for employees who have not yet been updated, here is a link to the Eye-Abstergo satellite specs:www.abstergoindustries.com/eyeabstergo/satellite.html (http://www.abstergoindustries.com/eyeabstergo/satellite.html)
With your help, we can continue to guide our projects safely into the future.
S.

by the sound of it he is calling the shots, so he must be the leader of the Templars. I take it that S. is either one, 'pope' status(not pope per say), or two, just the modern day Grand Master of the Templars that over sees Templar activity.

then this man is useless...YOU HAVE FAILED MY THEORY POPE MAN.....you are not S.!!!!!

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0705/pope_benedict_0523.jpg

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 04:28 PM
if I'm not wrong he/she's mentioned in the email on the Abstergo website

Can you link that email? Because right now I'm beginning to doubt the existence of S.

Or If he/she made up "S." to try fill In a gap between Alan Rikkin -- Grand Master.

edit: Ignore this^

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 04:38 PM
I just found this email.



From:
Shaun Hastings


To:
Lucy Stillman, Rebecca Crane


Date/Time:
9/19/2012 11:45 PM


Subject:
RE: Yogurt


Lucy,I am supremely disappointed that you would make such allegations of your dedicated staff. This accusation is injust, unfounded and frankly rather insulting.
S.




Mere coincidence or Is something fishy going on?

dxsxhxcx
04-14-2012, 04:44 PM
"Those who have been briefed privately on the specifics of the operation need not read on, but for employees who have not yet been updated"

this part of the email is interesting, I believe not everyone in Abstergo is a templar, they probably have employees that don't know about their existence, I would say that this email was something sent to all their employees (as you can see here:

"To: Abstergo Industries.

Associates at Abstergo Industries...")

that would be somehow involved with the Eye-Abstergo project as a justification for their work, and also to not raise suspicion... so from what we know, S. could be the secretary of the big boss...

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 04:47 PM
I might be going out on a whim here, but look at that email I posted above. It's from Shaun Hastings and Is signed "S." >.>

dxsxhxcx
04-14-2012, 04:50 PM
I think is just a coincidence to let us crazy... :P

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 04:52 PM
I think is just a coincidence to let us crazy... :P

Or Shaun Is eating Abstergo from the Inside, and also laid the groundwork for the DIA incident >.>

xD jk. You're probably right. Mere coincident.

LightRey
04-14-2012, 04:56 PM
The Templars use the first letter of any Templar's or Templar associate's last name to refer to them in messages (with the exclusion of George W. Bush, who is referred to as 'W'). Anyone with a (last) name starting with the letter 'S' could be the person they're referring to and Shaun would be referred to (even by himself) as 'H' if he were a Templar.

dxsxhxcx
04-14-2012, 05:07 PM
The Templars use the first letter of any Templar's or Templar associate's last name to refer to them in messages (with the exclusion of George W. Bush, who is referred to as 'W'). Anyone with a (last) name starting with the letter 'S' could be the person they're referring to and Shaun would be referred to (even by himself) as 'H' if he were a Templar.

S. = Stillman, Lucy

here we go! /o\

:p

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 05:09 PM
The Templars use the first letter of any Templar's or Templar associate's last name to refer to them in messages (with the exclusion of George W. Bush, who is referred to as 'W'). Anyone with a (last) name starting with the letter 'S' could be the person they're referring to and Shaun would be referred to (even by himself) as 'H' if he were a Templar.

Ah ok. Thanks for clearing that up!

LightRey
04-14-2012, 05:22 PM
S. = Stillman, Lucy

here we go! /o\

:p
Possible I suppose. Would be an ideal way to be able to send such a message without alerting Desmond.

Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 05:25 PM
"Those who have been briefed privately on the specifics of the operation need not read on, but for employees who have not yet been updated"

this part of the email is interesting, I believe not everyone in Abstergo is a templar, they probably have employees that don't know about their existence, I would say that this email was something sent to all their employees (as you can see here:

"To: Abstergo Industries.

Associates at Abstergo Industries...")

that would be somehow involved with the Eye-Abstergo project as a justification for their work, and also to not raise suspicion... so from what we know, S. could be the secretary of the big boss...

Clearly you have a point

File.0.09\Ins_Hierarchy

Abstergo is a public company. As such it has its own corporate charter. Behind this public face, however, lies the Order of the Knights Templar. While closely linked, there are major differences between the corporation and the Order. Abstergo is the Templars' public front, but not all of its employees are aware of the Order's existence. In fact, the great majority of those who work at Abstergo, including most of our scientists, engineers and CEOs, are, quite simply, employees. They do not suspect the Order exists, nor are they aware of the true purpose behind most of our work.

Inevitably, some Abstergo employees are also part of our secret organization. Dr. Warren Vidic, for example, is a senior member of the Order.

To learn more about Abstergo's public objectives, operations and structure, please consult our Corporate Charter.

They use their employees, while the 'insiders' know the truth of why and what is really going on.

punkyskunk
04-14-2012, 06:48 PM
What about all the emails of AC1 and ACB and http://abstergoindustries.com/portal/

UrDeviant1
04-14-2012, 06:50 PM
What about all the emails of AC1 and ACB and http://abstergoindustries.com/portal/

I'v just checked all these out, and now understand whey the OP suggested "S." as the Grand Master.

I wanna' know who he Is! Guess I'll have to wait :l

Acrimonious_Nin
04-14-2012, 08:01 PM
^ good I am glad that we are on a similar page lol

punkyskunk
04-15-2012, 04:03 AM
S is the grand master then (in ACR) theres the inner sanctum, the scientists and heads of activities not in the iner sanctum, then the recruits for the animus then the rest of the employes of the company. Thats how i see it anyway lol

punkyskunk
04-15-2012, 04:05 AM
I also don't think S will be the pope or GWB, there figure heads in the lore of AC... It will be some made up trillionare and youll kill him in AC5 probably :P i also think AC4 will be during prohibiton and AC5 will be 2013

Acrimonious_Nin
04-15-2012, 04:27 AM
I also don't think S will be the pope or GWB, there figure heads in the lore of AC... It will be some made up trillionare and youll kill him in AC5 probably :P i also think AC4 will be during prohibiton and AC5 will be 2013

My brain wants to diarrhea o.O

All that proof. All those sources. VANITY!!!!!!! lmao

You have a point ;)

punkyskunk
04-15-2012, 04:34 AM
thnx ;) i predicted AC3 was gunna be during da revolution too :)

Acrimonious_Nin
04-15-2012, 04:02 PM
thnx ;) i predicted AC3 was gunna be during da revolution too :)

Are you a fortune teller?

punkyskunk
04-15-2012, 04:40 PM
Are you a fortune teller?

No just an opinunative kid with too much time on his hands i can tell story lines pretty well.

UrDeviant1
04-15-2012, 05:05 PM
No just an opinunative kid with too much time on his hands i can tell story lines pretty well.

Lies, I think this Is you..

http://www.fx-mm.com/wp-content/uploads/crazed-man-looking-into-a-crystal-ball.jpg?9d7bd4

punkyskunk
04-15-2012, 05:30 PM
lol thnx... I just read how the story is gunna play out... most stuff is pretty obvious

beatledude210
04-15-2012, 11:14 PM
I also don't think S will be the pope or GWB, there figure heads in the lore of AC... It will be some made up trillionare and youll kill him in AC5 probably :P i also think AC4 will be during prohibiton and AC5 will be 2013

I'm interested to hear your theory on the Prohibition setting. Could you explain?

Acrimonious_Nin
04-16-2012, 12:14 AM
well sinsce beatle is asking for my thread to be derailed...yes, what is prohibition and what is your theory.

beatledude210
04-16-2012, 12:33 AM
well sinsce beatle is asking for my thread to be derailed...yes, what is prohibition and what is your theory.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to derail your thread, I was just simply asking. My apologies. punkyskunk forget what I said.

punkyskunk
04-17-2012, 02:06 AM
lol sry bout that. i sent beatle a message :P