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Legendz54
03-25-2012, 01:32 AM
I found this new article on how AC3 developers want to portray their templars. It seems they believe that the templars have strayed too far of what they were meant to be. Just a secret war. This is what they said

The Templars' war against the Assassins has provided the backdrop for every Assassin's Creed game so far, and that's not about to change. But Game Informer (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/03/23/the-evolution-of-the-templar-order.aspx) reports that the role of the villains is going to be altered slightly inAssassin's Creed 3—specifically, they're going to be less villainous.I think early on

one of the fun things in Assassin’s Creed 1 was that the Templars weren’t mindless villains,”Assassin’s Creed III creative director Alex Hutchinson said. “They were kind of misunderstood – there were a lot of gray zones. Then over the course of the sequels it become more villainous and it also became very entrenched in the Borgias, in very specific characters who were really evil.

With Assassin’s Creed III we want to get back to that notion that they think they are doing the right thing. We as players disagree completely, but they honestly believe they are doing the right thing.” The series' "fiction stewards" apparently felt the game had strayed too far from its original focus on the secret war between the Assassins and Templars. It won't be as simple as Assassins/Americans versus Templars/Brits—you'll be taking out people on both sides of the war—and there'll be more discussions between the two sides.what do you think about the change of the templarshttp://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111031170637/assassinscreed/images/0/0b/Assassin_hideout_AC_II_2.png

frogger504
03-25-2012, 01:35 AM
I love it.

AnthonyA85
03-25-2012, 01:39 AM
Yeah, I read that article too, i'm happy that they're going back to the AC1 style of portraying the Templars, don't get me wrong, the Borgias were pretty acurately portrayed (Cessare was both a brilliant commander, AND an animal, Rodrigo was a power hungry, manipulative old sod), but i think ACR strayed the most, it'll be nice to see them going back to "Doing the right thing the wrong way."

De Filosoof
03-25-2012, 01:42 AM
Yeah, he means that templars truely believe that the world can only be at peace by controlling mankind. The templars have fascist ideologies, they want the people to be obedient through indoctrination and the assassins want to achieve peace by educating and informing the people so they will finally be civilized through knowledge instead of ignorance.

AdamXEve
03-25-2012, 02:14 AM
This is why I believe both of the "spin-off ACII" titles to be completely uneccesary overall; obviously it was an attempt by Ubisoft to cash in on a growing popular franchise, but all it really did is bore people of the series and create this cognitive dissonance between people's perception of where the AC series has gone and what ACIII will be. This is why Ubisoft would be wise to get new footage of this game in motion out as quickly as possible. There die-hard fans will buy the game anyway, but they have to make sure people understand that this is a brand new game that was in development for over two years and is equal to the change that AC II was from the orignal game in comparison.

SixKeys
03-25-2012, 03:21 AM
To be fair, the Borgias were a pretty messed up family in RL. In AC2 and ACB they weren't so much portrayed as evil because they were Templars but because they were powerhungry and selfish. In ACR I felt they went slightly back towards a more gray area again. I prefer the shades of gray, to be sure, just saying I didn't think portraying the Borgia as villains was a bad move because historically they WERE pretty bad.

ElDoucherino
03-25-2012, 04:44 AM
To be fair, the Borgias were a pretty messed up family in RL. In AC2 and ACB they weren't so much portrayed as evil because they were Templars but because they were powerhungry and selfish. In ACR I felt they went slightly back towards a more gray area again. I prefer the shades of gray, to be sure, just saying I didn't think portraying the Borgia as villains was a bad move because historically they WERE pretty bad.

Spot on, they were shady to say at least and I for one liked how they mixed it up between games. Loved how the villains were portrayed in ACI but I feel that if it had been the same with the following titles that I would have been too much of the same. Some templars were selfish and more focused on power, wealth and glory. And then we have does who believed that they were or are doing it for the greater good...hwo messed up it may be.

Inorganic9_2
03-25-2012, 11:13 AM
I liked the way they appeared to be turning back to the grey areas in ACR

SPOILER




For example, the conversations with Ahmet in the Arsenal. His methods may have been a little brutal, but he seemed to truly believe that his goal was peace.

De Filosoof
03-25-2012, 01:22 PM
I liked the way they appeared to be turning back to the grey areas in ACR
For example, the conversations with Ahmet in the Arsenal. His methods may have been a little brutal, but he seemed to truly believe that his goal was peace.



It wasn't totally grey in ACR though. They hung Ezio's wife (something the assassins would never do) and he tried to kill Suleiman (although he says he only wanted to kidnap him, when you fail the mission where you have to protect Suleiman they WILL kill him.) So that was a lie or a huge mistake gamedesign wise..

pirate1802
03-26-2012, 09:17 AM
It wasn't totally grey in ACR though. They hung Ezio's wife (something the assassins would never do) and he tried to kill Suleiman (although he says he only wanted to kidnap him, when you fail the mission where you have to protect Suleiman they WILL kill him.) So that was a lie or a huge mistake gamedesign wise..

I don't remember this very well but does the game actually give you the "Suleiman had died" message? Maybe they were just there to make him unconscious with some sort of poison which would, to Ezio, seem like killing. Cuz we are seeing this from Ezio's perspective so even when they were just incapacitating Suleiman, to Ezio (and Yusuf, and other assassins) it would seem like killing?

If yes they it does seem like an oversight by the devs. Still I feel ACR was a step in AC1's direction as far as grey villains are concerned. Yes, they do kill innocent people (they are not assassins afterall, they believe in doing whatever it takes to bring lasting peace.) But they did seem to truly believe all this would bring peace unlike the Borgias who seemed to be guided by the quest for wealth and glory alone. That conversation with Ahmet had me almost sympathize with his cause, something I never thought was possible with the previous villains.

One of the Abstergo dossiers mention this too, that the Borgias strayed from the true goals of the Templars and instead chose to expand their personal influence alone.

frogger504
03-26-2012, 09:58 AM
I wonder how history will remember this age.


Yes, they kill people (they are not assassins afterall, they believe in doing whatever it takes to bring lasting peace.)

This made me lol

pirate1802
03-26-2012, 10:25 AM
I wonder how history will remember this age.


This made me lol

EDIT: Innocent people -__- stoopid mistake.

SaintPerkele
03-26-2012, 01:20 PM
The gray zones in AC1 were perfect and different with each Assassination target. Some of them were actually 'evil' (killing innocents), but only as a sort of revenge (Abu'l Nuquoud, the merchant king for example), not much unlike Ezio (something that actually annoyed me over the course of AC2 and ACB). Others did not even do anything that was simply evil and nothing else, at least not worse than the Assassins (Garnier de Naplouse for example, who was actually healing the sick - hurting them at the same time though). And there were those, who had the same goals as the Assassins, peace and stability, only through a loss of free will (Robert de Sable and, eventually, Al Mualim). Now all of these are evil things, but for a good purpose.
I also liked that the Assassins were portrayed as a 'dark white' if you want. In the Ezio trilogy (with some exceptions in Revelations), everything they did was portrayed to be heroic. Altair's victims always reminded him that he is not unlike them or occasionally even worse. Matched perfectly with Altair's lack of character or at least charisma as well as his change of attitude. In the beginning of the game, you could say, that he was worse than most of the Templars.

Revelations tried to get that feeling back, but only got it sort of right. Manuel Palaiologos had his empire stolen, Ahmed was trying to achieve a better world. Tarik Barleti was even innocent. However, it seemed kind of forced occasionally. I hope ACIII will be as good as AC in terms of that.

Jexx21
03-26-2012, 01:24 PM
Well, AC2 and ACB were dealing with a very messed up family that was actually evil in real life. So there's that.

But yea, the Assassins and the Templars are both supposed to be morally gray. A more black and white version of them would be the Autobots and Decepticons.

Jamison_J_B
03-26-2012, 01:41 PM
I do have to say that I really did like how the whole messed up borgia family act played out. Very twisted and dark...I digged it alot. Though having a enemy that is trying to do good by wrong measures is more enthralling.

SaintPerkele
03-26-2012, 02:32 PM
Well, AC2 and ACB were dealing with a very messed up family that was actually evil in real life. So there's that.

But yea, the Assassins and the Templars are both supposed to be morally gray. A more black and white version of them would be the Autobots and Decepticons.
I wouldn't describe the Borgias in real life as pure evil. They were not the most Christian people (considering that they were one of the most important families for Christianity at that time) and gruesome for sure. On the other hand however, they offered exile to Jews. They were.. a really dark gray if you want.

Jexx21
03-26-2012, 03:00 PM
Well, I never said pure evil now did I?

LightRey
03-26-2012, 03:03 PM
I wouldn't describe the Borgias in real life as pure evil. They were not the most Christian people (considering that they were one of the most important families for Christianity at that time) and gruesome for sure. On the other hand however, they offered exile to Jews. They were.. a really dark gray if you want.
Which is why they were still very good candidates for being Templars in the AC universe.

Abeonis
03-27-2012, 02:24 PM
I never really saw this as being an issue, to be honest. In ACII, the Templar's seem to be attempting to unite the fractured kingdoms of Northern Italy under a single, peaceful banner, theirs; when this fails, Rodrigo usurps the Chruch to give his plan another, more discreet attempt. When Cesare comes on the scene, it becomes a much more personal story; Brotherhood is much more about the Ezio versus Cesare than it is about Assassins' versus Templars', I agree, but who said absolutely every tiny detail had to revolve around this great secret war whilst ignoring the personal details of the participants lives.

Revelations did a suitable job, in my eyes, of returning to the wider Assassin v. Templar story. Ahmet clearly realises that the labels of "Byzantine" and "Ottoman" are superfluous and artificial; his mission is to locate the Grand Temple to further the Templar cause of uniting the world under their banner.