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View Full Version : Desmond a sleeper agent?



InfamousQ1987
03-23-2012, 11:01 PM
- Subject04, Daniel Cross was, at child age trained as a sleeper agent and then dumped on to the street.

Vidic writes that Cross is the second-most successful sleeper agent they've ever had.

Who is the most successful? Well, that has to be Rebecca,Shaun...or Desmond himself? Cross was brainwashed, unaware of his subconscious instructions. Shaun suggests this may be the case with Desmond during some Animus Island voiceover

william pushed desmond to the point where he had to escape, and live on the streets. Who knows desmond was a bartender and daniel was an alcoholic.....maybe they have crossed paths.. any thoughts?

blazefp
03-23-2012, 11:20 PM
Who is the most successful? Well, that has to be Rebecca,Shaun...or Desmond himself?

Or Lucy which really was a templar agent unlike the ones you've said as far we know. She managed to get extremely important data with her involvement with the assassins and my guess is that the templars let the assassins "clear up the path" to the Grand Temple so they could meet again one last time. But that's a guess only, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying this is more likely to happen in my point of view

AnthonyA85
03-23-2012, 11:21 PM
I don't think it's Desmond. Abstergo never had the chance to program him back in AC1 (that sort of thing is usually done through hypnosis or subliminal messages while you sleep)

We know Lucy was a Templar Double agent, but that's not really the same as a sleeper. From what we know of Shaun, he was never in an abstergo facility to be programmed, he was rescued by Rebecca from a van after Abstergo picked him up.

We know the Assassin's contacted Rebecca at some point, we just don't know when. So it's possible, but extremely unlikely.

frogger504
03-23-2012, 11:28 PM
I'd say it's perfectly possible.Remember that Warren would be around Desmond when he slept, who knows what for. I'd say it would make a good twidt do yeah, why not?

rileypoole1234
03-23-2012, 11:33 PM
I highly doubt it, but anything is possible I suppose.

Josegtx13
03-23-2012, 11:36 PM
I think they're most successful templar agent was Lucy.


I'd say it's perfectly possible.Remember that Warren would be around Desmond when he slept, who knows what for. I'd say it would make a good twidt do yeah, why not?

Hmm, that could be a possibility.

freddie_1897
03-23-2012, 11:37 PM
Probably Lucy, I doubt they'd need 2 spies in the same place

Calvarok
03-23-2012, 11:44 PM
Exactly. And anyways, if Desmond was a sleeper agent, Juno would have had him kill himself as well as Lucy. TWCB know that Abstergo won't use the apple for anything good.

pacmanate
03-23-2012, 11:48 PM
How could it possibly be Desmond...

Poodle_of_Doom
03-24-2012, 03:31 AM
It was the myster man driving the van.

frogger504
03-24-2012, 03:35 AM
Lucy wasn't a sleeper Agent, from TLA she is perfectly aware of what she is doing and why, they are her motives, she is a Triple Agent.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-24-2012, 03:55 AM
Double agent.

xOMGITSJASONx
03-24-2012, 03:58 AM
You never know but I personally doubt it. Desmond has history but a secret agent? I don't know about that.

frogger504
03-24-2012, 04:11 AM
Double agent.

Triple. to the Assassins she was a double agent, working for the Abstergo to give the Assassins intel but in reality it was all a ruse to get into for Abstergo.

FilipinoNinja67
03-24-2012, 04:12 AM
I don't think vidic would have let desmond leave unless he had a backup for bringing him back. I don't think the templars would be willing to risk all of the information that desmond has.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-24-2012, 04:27 AM
Triple. to the Assassins she was a double agent, working for the Abstergo to give the Assassins intel but in reality it was all a ruse to get into for Abstergo.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_agent#Triple_agent


Double agent. Assassin infiltrator turned Templar. By definition she'd have to have another party to turn to in order to be a triple agent.

frogger504
03-24-2012, 04:33 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_agent#Triple_agent


Double agent. Assassin infiltrator turned Templar. By definition she'd have to have another party to turn to in order to be a triple agent.
You missed the part where it said re-double agent.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-24-2012, 04:37 AM
"A re-doubled agent is an agent who gets caught as a double agent and is forced to mislead the foreign intelligence service."

I see your point, but at the same time, there seems to be a distinction between the two.

hotgal187
03-24-2012, 04:56 AM
i dnot c ho he can b aslep asian if he is awak al the tym

Poodle_of_Doom
03-24-2012, 05:19 AM
i dnot c ho he can b aslep asian if he is awak al the tym

http://falonsoeoi.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/proper-english.jpg

DylanJosh9
03-24-2012, 07:14 AM
i dnot c ho he can b aslep asian if he is awak al the tym

What does being Asian have to do with anything? :P

frogger504
03-24-2012, 07:15 AM
Well then, LightRey was finally wrong. A rare thing these days.

Assassin_M
03-24-2012, 09:05 AM
I believe it was Lucy..
It can`t be Desmond because of 3 reasons..

1-They don`t need 2 agents at the same place.
2-Juno would`v had him kill himself, or better yet not enlist his help at all.
3-Warren doesnt mention it when telling Lucy about the plan for Desmond`s escape during the Lost Archive.

Now, im not saying it couldnt be any one else, im just saying that it can`t be Desmond..

freddie_1897
03-24-2012, 09:18 AM
maybe lucy is a quad agent?

MIND****

Poodle_of_Doom
03-24-2012, 04:10 PM
Watch,... the ending will be epic. The Templars suceed, and the world doesn't end because of them. TWCB are actually trying to mislead us, so the solar flare will destroy us. And Desmond's a sleeper agent, and Lucy was just trying to deprogram him.

De Filosoof
03-24-2012, 05:08 PM
Watch,... the ending will be epic. The Templars suceed, and the world doesn't end because of them. TWCB are actually trying to mislead us, so the solar flare will destroy us. And Desmond's a sleeper agent, and Lucy was just trying to deprogram him.

No ****ing way.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-24-2012, 05:58 PM
And if I'm right, you'll ****.

InfamousQ1987
03-24-2012, 06:15 PM
Watch,... the ending will be epic. The Templars suceed, and the world doesn't end because of them. TWCB are actually trying to mislead us, so the solar flare will destroy us. And Desmond's a sleeper agent, and Lucy was just trying to deprogram him.

Omg that sound possible, my mind would be blown if that was the ending. Anything is possible, even desmond bring a sleeper agent. plus it would be a better reason to kill lucy, because we are being misled. I could totally see the templars saving the world, but then they succeed with thier plan for utopia

Poodle_of_Doom
03-24-2012, 08:26 PM
I'm telling you, the ending should be from so far out in left feild, that no one will see it coming. It has to be a massive mind f***.

AlphaAltair
03-25-2012, 01:10 AM
Desmond being a sleeper kind of makes sense. Cross killed the Mentor, and almost destroyed the modern Assassin order by single handedly gaining the intelligence that led to the great purge and yet he is only Abstergo's second most successful sleeper agent? Who else could make a bigger impact? I think you just worked out how this all ends OP.

LightRey
03-25-2012, 01:16 AM
Desmond being a sleeper kind of makes sense. Cross killed the Mentor, and almost destroyed the modern Assassin order by single handedly gaining the intelligence that led to the great purge and yet he is only Abstergo's second most successful sleeper agent? Who else could make a bigger impact? I think you just worked out how this all ends OP.
I disagree. We haven't seen any events in the games indicating an attempt at brainwashing and we've been with Desmond since almost the moment he arrived at Abstergo. There's also the fact that they already had Lucy there and since she was a Templar agent, who they may not even know to be dead yet, she could very well be the agent they were talking about. Finally, it was basically stated that all sleeper agents, prior to becoming one, were already Templar agents.

De Filosoof
03-25-2012, 01:21 AM
I'm telling you, the ending should be from so far out in left feild, that no one will see it coming. It has to be a massive mind f***.
It has nothing to do with mind****, it's just a stupid idea and would ruin the whole AC story.
The templars saving the day? really? did you even play the glyph puzzles? What do you expect at the end of the game, Warren Vidic holding a speech about love and peace? or dancing in a pink tutu maybe? All that abstergo is interested in is sending eye-abstergo into the air to control and enslave mankind.
It's stated in the ACR multiplayer files that abstergo doesn't even believe in the 2012 catastrophe so why would they save the world?
TWCB could mislead everyone but i doubt it, when you pay attention to the ac games it's kinda obvious they learned from their previous mistakes (using people as slaves) but it could be a possibility though,,,

ShaneO7K
03-25-2012, 01:41 AM
It has nothing to do with mind****, it's just a stupid idea and would ruin the whole AC story.
The templars saving the day? really? did you even play the glyph puzzles? What do you expect at the end of the game, Warren Vidic holding a speech about love and peace? or dancing in a pink tutu maybe? All that abstergo is interested in is sending eye-abstergo into the air to control and enslave all the people.
Abstergo doesn't even believe in the 2012 catastrophe. It's stated in the ACR multiplayer files that abstergo doesn't even believe in the 2012 catastrophe so why would they save the world?
TWCB could mislead everyone but i doubt it, when you pay attention to the ac games it's kinda obvious they learned from their previous mistakes (using people as slaves) but it could be a possibility though,,,

The Assassin's and Templars have pretty much the same goal, which is peace. The only thing which separates these two faction is by what means they will achieve the peace.
No side is enitrely right in their actions, it's pretty much a situation of does the end justify the means for both sides.
(It's been a while since I played AC1, so I know I'm probably wrong with what I'm saying with this next line) In one of the conversations in AC1 I think Vidic either implies or just basically says that man can't have peace without being controlled (Or that could've been Al Mualim, I can't really remember).

Sorry if that was off-topic, just needed to clear up that Abstergo (Templars in general) are not really intended to be this generic all evil force.

LightRey
03-25-2012, 01:45 AM
The Assassin's and Templars have pretty much the same goal, which is peace. The only thing which separates these two faction is by what means they will achieve the peace.
No side is enitrely right in their actions, it's pretty much a situation of does the end justify the means for both sides.
(It's been a while since I played AC1, so I know I'm probably wrong with what I'm saying with this next line) In one of the conversations in AC1 I think Vidic either implies or just basically says that man can't have peace without being controlled (Or that could've been Al Mualim, I can't really remember).

Sorry if that was off-topic, just needed to clear up that Abstergo (Templars in general) are not really intended to be this generic all evil force.
I think there's another significant difference between the two orders, signified by "everything is permitted"-part of the Creed. The templars seem to be of the opinion that the ends justify the means, while the assassins do not. The assassins make decisions based on their best judgement and live with the consequences of those decisions. They're not using the ends as an excuse, just as a reason. They do bad things and they know they do. They don't deny these things they do are bad and they do not feel like they were in the right, because their goal was just. They accept the good with the bad of their choices and live with it.

De Filosoof
03-25-2012, 01:46 AM
The Assassin's and Templars have pretty much the same goal, which is peace. The only thing which separates these two faction is by what means they will achieve the peace.
No side is enitrely right in their actions, it's pretty much a situation of does the end justify the means for both sides.
(It's been a while since I played AC1, so I know I'm probably wrong with what I'm saying with this next line) In one of the conversations in AC1 I think Vidic either implies or just basically says that man can't have peace without being controlled (Or that could've been Al Mualim, I can't really remember).

Sorry if that was off-topic, just needed to clear up that Abstergo (Templars in general) are not really intended to be this generic all evil force.

It's not about evil. The way they wanna achieve "peace" as you call it is just wrong.
It's called fascism.
You could say that Hitler also wanted to achieve peace but that didn't make his actions good right?

LightRey
03-25-2012, 01:51 AM
It's not about evil. The way they wanna achieve "peace" as you call it is just wrong.
It's called fascism.
You could say that Hitler also wanted to achieve peace but that didn't make his actions good right?
I'm sorry but fascism is something completely different.

De Filosoof
03-25-2012, 01:53 AM
I'm sorry but fascism is something completely different.

Ok, the ideals from fascism then. You get my point.

AdamXEve
03-25-2012, 02:00 AM
It was Al Mualim. I mean really guys.



I'm sorry but fascism is something completely different.


What's your point? Facist governments also thought they were necessary for their people. Just linking a name to something bad and then saying it's bad because it's that thing you linked it to is a strawman argument and circular logic.

AlphaAltair
03-25-2012, 03:15 AM
I disagree. We haven't seen any events in the games indicating an attempt at brainwashing and we've been with Desmond since almost the moment he arrived at Abstergo. There's also the fact that they already had Lucy there and since she was a Templar agent, who they may not even know to be dead yet, she could very well be the agent they were talking about. Finally, it was basically stated that all sleeper agents, prior to becoming one, were already Templar agents.

It can't be Lucy. A sleeper agent is someone who is unaware that they work for Abstergo. Desmond's past, before arriving at Abstergo, is hazy at best. All we know are vague "facts", like that he was a bartender. If you're going to brainwash someone and plant them you're going to have to implant memories so that they dont know they've been brainwashed. Lucy's role supports this as she was basically "supervising" Desmond.

There is no one else in the immediate AC universe who could fill the "most successful" sleeper agent role, based on the significance of their actions, apart from Desmond unless they're talking about a sleeper not directly related to the current story, someone like former president Bush for example, but then why be so specific that Cross was the "second" most successful? I'm sure that they've had many.

hotgal187
03-25-2012, 09:53 AM
What does being Asian have to do with anything? :P

mabe u were lern 2 reded if u didt hav a sliper asian

LightRey
03-25-2012, 11:06 AM
It can't be Lucy. A sleeper agent is someone who is unaware that they work for Abstergo. Desmond's past, before arriving at Abstergo, is hazy at best. All we know are vague "facts", like that he was a bartender. If you're going to brainwash someone and plant them you're going to have to implant memories so that they dont know they've been brainwashed. Lucy's role supports this as she was basically "supervising" Desmond.

There is no one else in the immediate AC universe who could fill the "most successful" sleeper agent role, based on the significance of their actions, apart from Desmond unless they're talking about a sleeper not directly related to the current story, someone like former president Bush for example, but then why be so specific that Cross was the "second" most successful? I'm sure that they've had many.
The best agent doesn't have to be a sleeper. That was never mentioned. It's just their most successful agent. In fact, the best agent is not even mentioned directly, just indirectly by calling Daniel the second best one and that was at a point when he was no longer a sleeper.


Ok, the ideals from fascism then. You get my point.
It uses a similar mentality when it comes to controlling people, if that's what you mean.

infamous_ezio
03-25-2012, 11:46 AM
I don't think desmond being a sleeper agent really makes any sense. You guys are thinking to hard about it, desmond is the good guy and is going to save the world, but with regards to daniel cross i'm really curious as to what role he will be playing in AC3. I like the idea that him and desmond may have met before, would be cool to see desmond's reaction when he see's him again, maybe we get to dig a bit further into desmond's past! :)

ShaneO7K
03-25-2012, 01:26 PM
I think there's another significant difference between the two orders, signified by "everything is permitted"-part of the Creed. The templars seem to be of the opinion that the ends justify the means, while the assassins do not. The assassins make decisions based on their best judgement and live with the consequences of those decisions. They're not using the ends as an excuse, just as a reason. They do bad things and they know they do. They don't deny these things they do are bad and they do not feel like they were in the right, because their goal was just. They accept the good with the bad of their choices and live with it.

Yeah that was more or less the point I was trying to get across.

frigabond
03-25-2012, 01:28 PM
The best agent may well be dead. I don't recall vidic specifically saying something along the lines of " the second best agent living or so far".
If I explained it right. Of course I may well be mistaken.
So it's possible the best is no longer alive?
Edit: would point to Lucy but I'd be dissapointed personally.

ShaneO7K
03-25-2012, 01:39 PM
It's not about evil. The way they wanna achieve "peace" as you call it is just wrong.
It's called fascism.
You could say that Hitler also wanted to achieve peace but that didn't make his actions good right?

I did not say that their actions are good. I was just saying that it is not as simple as "All that abstergo is interested in is sending eye-abstergo into the air to control and enslave all the people." As you said in your previous post, there is more to it than just that.
(This isn't really aimed at you, its just something I want to say) In my opinion it is not entirely right to think of the Templars as these terrible people who only wish to enslave and the Assassins as the side that always does the right thing.
Both sides could fall under the same category in my eyes, it's just the Templars methods are a little more extreme. AC1 did a better job of showing this than the others.
Both sides

Poodle_of_Doom
03-26-2012, 01:00 AM
^

It does make sense.