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Agentbarto
03-21-2012, 03:37 AM
So before we get started I'd like to say most of this may seem obvious to some in sci-fi universe but my goal is to try and explain how it could function as a real scientific endeavor. Most of the technical information upon which I base this theory can be found within the first game. In reality I completed it a while ago but I neglected on posting it due to school hah. As a warning this discussion of this topic may appeal only to fellow science geeks. Anywho here it is.

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Basically it kind of functions like the Activation-Synthesis hypothesis about the creation of dreams; Hence the name Animus and its Jungian connotation that someone else has noticed.


So let's assume for starters that everything in the universe can be reduced to information and nothing more. The colors you see for example are nothing more than atoms at specific vibrations being interpreted by the mind/brain. These atoms can in turn be reduced to quarks (possibly they too can be reduced; who knows.). Lets also say that though time is less obvious in the quantum realm, it still exists and therefore determining "time", cause-effect relationships, is simply a matter of technological sophistication and determining at which point infinitely small percentages of uncertainty can be deemed extraneous. If you wish to dispute these things then I fear the remainder of the theory may fall on deaf ears.


So if we take these things to be possible, it may be that the Animus works on a principle similar to Quantum Entanglement. Basically what Quantum Entanglement posits is that information can be shared and exchanged by quantum particles at great distances (relative to the superatomic realm.); this part is known as Quantum Non-locality. Humans have conducted informational teleportation experiments on QP's, so its we know that nature allows for the possibility, if not also functions on it. Thus there is a natural encoding of information. Information then doesn't necessarily exist as a fundamental property of the universe; rather it is generated by the interaction of particles and the change in the particles is labeled as information.


Now I say similar principle because we are working with molecules and QP's at a close proximity, and Quantum Entanglement comes into play only if we perceive Time as a distance. When explaining quantum interaction, let's take this as an example;


A = AB ; B = A ; C = AB*


Let's say that A occurs before B, and B occurs before C. Because of Quantum Entanglement we may say that particle C is still particle A at the beginning of the sentence, and C is not a different state; by which logic it should read A, then B, then A. This is not the case, however; the A at the beginning is fundamentally different from C at the end because A never underwent the same change the A at the end experienced before becoming C. This is because there is a brief window, however small it may be, in which particles are unique because A "felt" the change first, and then C received the change. Therefore C is unique for a short period of time. Assuming this is true, information has been transferred (not lost) to some other state, and C exists as a slightly unique entity in space and time, while the existence of the "B" state is real however brief the transitional state may be.


Edit: Recently I've come across the scientific explanation for such a principle. It's called Pauli's Exclusion Principle, and I'll let my man Dr. Cox explain it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmAmyHnEbNw (3:10 -> )



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So if QP's can share information at a distance, maybe they can share it at a proximity. When talking about DNA we have to realize that all molecules share energy amongst one another even if the effects do not manifest. Take for example ambient radiation; you don't even realize it but your body is constantly bombarded by neutrinos. These neutrinos carry energy and whether they come into contact with the molecules that make you up or not it doesn't matter the energy they carry radiates in all directions and hence destabilizes those molecules for a very short period of time; though they quickly re-stabilize, thus you don't feel it. The same can be said for any molecule/atom though the chances of you feeling it are higher because atoms are heavier and therefor interact directly by collision. But if the laws of physics allowed for this to be the case in every "interaction" we wouldn't have stable molecules, and we do. So what can we call DNA? It's a vector for protein information. What are proteins? Complex molecules. I'm sure you can see where Im going with this. What if we label information, energy? We can then detect information. not only on the quantum level but also on the molecular level. Now I brought up the point about quantum particles to show that information is not "lost" as heat. Heat itself is information because it carries markers of a specific past and it not as "generic" as we think sometimes think it is.


This is what the Animus detects. Think of it like forming an image out of random amounts of pixels. You'll get a full picture by analyzing how the pixels interact to form a whole. That being said the pixels are quantum information and therefore a change in energy is passed on from particle to particle. Let's take a moment to consider what this means in the context of DNA. DNA in essence a method of maintaining a loop of information. You might say "Well why then do we need ancestors if in theory every piece contains a map of it all?" Well we need ancestors because the information is diluted and distorted over time because of entanglement with other particles that may not share the same exact concentration of the informational "map" for a particular construct (memories). It's a bit like trying to place a puzzle piece from a different puzzle into a correctly fitted slot; though it will fit the slot in size and shape, the contents of the piece do not coincide with the full picture around it. So how do we keep the information whole and virtually undiluted with the all the mess of information we have? DNA essentially acts as a closed loop of information. This is why you can't grab just any person and hope they lead you back to a specific target. The more the information is repeated the stronger the picture becomes. This is why you have to stay within the genealogical tree and "synch". What synching does is that it pools all the information currently analyzed to be "accurate" (Not completely accurate obviously we have glitches in the system) and then the Animus decides what percentage is an acceptable margin for error when pooling new information from the genome. All of this requires complex algorithms and heavy monitoring. Hence we have Lucy in AC and Rebecca later on riding "shotgun."


Now given that the Uncertainty Principle prevents us from ever fully analyzing anything you may wonder how the Animus detects and forms cohesive images. Well it doesn't. The mind is the only machine that does this; the Animus simply extrapolates data that is relevant to the "puzzle" which it then transfers the puzzle pieces that are formed by the mind once it interprets the data; much like a dream. This is why Rebecca had reservations about placing Desmond in the Animus in hopes of retrieving his consciousness; she in fact said the Animus was never meant to replicate complete cognitive pathways (in other words, Desmond's mind).


So how then does Desmond learn and gain experience from the ancestors? Well it all goes back to a "Matrix" type of situation. Many scientists say that currently we can learn in the sense. This is a good analogy:

So if they're different systems with the Animus being something like the PC and the brain being something like Mac (in terms of user interface) then it's really just a matter of time and technology before we cross the threshold, at the very least; it's all we need really.


As Michio Kaku explains it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6mUj1W9UZo, technology can't currently process information in the abstract ways we can. It's all linear 1's and 0's.


Let's move on to the Animus' history real quick. We know Abstergo developed it, and we know they basically reverse-engineered it from data gleaned out of the Apples. It's therefore safe to say that it would not be impossible to build if the data was there, it would simply be a matter of gathering the necessary materials; something a company such as Abstergo probably has in spades, if not could gather quite easily.


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As far as how the PoE recordings of TWCB accurately name Desmond; that beats me. Though three possibilities: one; TFC programmed a sort of genetic fingerprint algorithm which would generate the response when certain genetic markers are found in the DNA of an ancestor. (Doesn't explain Desmond's vision at the end of Revelations. Though the apple does have a range effect as we've seen in the past, and this problem may be circumvented by the inclusion of electromagnetic sensory). Two; TWCB are actually time travelers jumping from one parallel universe to another, thus explaining why many of them died over the years [many different cataclysmic events as opposed to just one (Humans outdid a technological/biologically advanced civilization? Really? Only way it could work is is humans were immune to a disease that TWCB couldn't withstand; but again we face the problem of the fact that in this universe the Ancient Astronaut Theory actually happened and that means modern Humans were genetically engineered from some FC genes and implanted with artificial ones to render all (or such was their intention at least) vulnerable to the effects of the apples and possibly other artifacts.)] and also why and how they knew specifics; i.e. Desmond's name, but not others; i.e. who it is that will "follow" Desmond. Three; they had a TARDIS and went back in time to save humanity. (Maybe they aren't E.T.s, maybe they are terrestrial extras; that is to say, maybe they're humans that survived a cataclysm by themselves and decided to go back in time and change things up for their ancestors by playing a role in their survival of a similar if not the same cataclysm.)


Personally I find the 2nd option more compelling and I may hate future revelations if I deem they less compelling; But! This is meant to be a working theory of the Animus, amongst other things, so feel free to add on or debate it. Also I'll check back periodically to see what's up so feel free to ask me any questions regarding my explanations; if I need to clarify, I would very much like to.

JumpInTheFire13
03-21-2012, 05:09 AM
Don't have enough time to read it right now but I can see you've put a lot of effort into this so I'll read it tomorrow and tell you what I think.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 05:52 AM
It's


a


game.

GLHS
03-21-2012, 06:02 AM
But at the same time, the game is based heavily on science, whether possible or not. I see nothing wrong with analyzing it and applying it to the real world. We all talk about it like it's real anyway, and the theories and arguments that we all have on here, I'm betting non-gamers would laugh at us and say "it's just a game." I don't see the difference. He's basically just explaining in depth how everything works anyway. Could be useful for a lot of the people that don't pay enough attention to the story and post stupid questions that they should already know the answers to.

Calvarok
03-21-2012, 06:11 AM
This is a bit too heady for me ATM, but from what I skimmed it sounds plausible indeed. I don't think there is an established canon explanation for this kinda thing, so you never know, Devs might see this and take some inspiration! Good job!

pirate1802
03-21-2012, 07:58 AM
Just because its a game doesn't make it a crime to put some brains into what is going on in the game?

LightRey
03-21-2012, 12:17 PM
Well it's certainly a very interesting theory and as far as I've been able to tell, it's theoretically possible, but it seems a little overly complicated (only a little *cough*). I mean, I like that you brought up the whole concept of quantum entanglement here and used it's intricacies and it's influence on how we perceive information in QM, but isn't it much easier to imagine that the process is a relatively simple chemical one?

The entire genetic memory system could simply all be regulated by one or a few enzymes that are produced if the right genes are activated.

pirate1802
03-21-2012, 01:47 PM
This is a very interesting theory, I'm reading it slowly but surely, understanding every part of it ;)

freddie_1897
03-21-2012, 06:44 PM
But at the same time, the game is based heavily on science, whether possible or not. I see nothing wrong with analyzing it and applying it to the real world. We all talk about it like it's real anyway, and the theories and arguments that we all have on here, I'm betting non-gamers would laugh at us and say "it's just a game." I don't see the difference. He's basically just explaining in depth how everything works anyway. Could be useful for a lot of the people that don't pay enough attention to the story and post stupid questions that they should already know the answers to.
yes, because pieces of eden are real things that emit magic and there really were people before men who were an incredibly advanced civilisation, Adam and Eve were also real people who found a piece of eden.

Agentbarto
03-21-2012, 11:28 PM
Well it's certainly a very interesting theory and as far as I've been able to tell, it's theoretically possible, but it seems a little overly complicated (only a little *cough*). I mean, I like that you brought up the whole concept of quantum entanglement here and used it's intricacies and it's influence on how we perceive information in QM, but isn't it much easier to imagine that the process is a relatively simple chemical one?

The entire genetic memory system could simply all be regulated by one or a few enzymes that are produced if the right genes are activated.

True I feel however that a wholly biochemical mechanism precludes the possibility of all of the "learning" aspects yielded through the bleeding effect. Also if the process is left to the individual and not the machine itself, the "learning" can be simply explained through muscle memory on the organismal level, as well as a few adjustments to the DNA on an atomic level. Because of this, the theory can also explain all of the "mistakes" we see; such as the fact that Altair's model in AC1 is exactly that of Desmonds, and why Ezio's face initially resembled Desmond's more closely in ACII than it does in AC:R (age difference notwithstanding.)

LightRey
03-22-2012, 12:35 AM
True I feel however that a wholly biochemical mechanism precludes the possibility of all of the "learning" aspects yielded through the bleeding effect. Also if the process is left to the individual and not the machine itself, the "learning" can be simply explained through muscle memory on the organismal level, as well as a few adjustments to the DNA on an atomic level. Because of this, the theory can also explain all of the "mistakes" we see; such as the fact that Altair's model in AC1 is exactly that of Desmonds, and why Ezio's face initially resembled Desmond's more closely in ACII than it does in AC:R (age difference notwithstanding.)
Yes, but the thing is, you're talking about quantum information here. You're basically suggesting that human DNA could be used as a quantum computer. I'm simply asking why a "normal" computer (the chemical processes human body) wouldn't be enough. Technically, with the right chemical processes, they could do anything, including the muscle memory bit.

Agentbarto
03-22-2012, 12:44 AM
Yes, but the thing is, you're talking about quantum information here. You're basically suggesting that human DNA could be used as a quantum computer. I'm simply asking why a "normal" computer (the chemical processes human body) wouldn't be enough. Technically, with the right chemical processes, they could do anything, including the muscle memory bit.

See I don't know if the information transfer works the same way at the superatomic level. As far as I know, there is no principle in chemistry that would allow for the "looping" of information in order to maintain consistency. You could be right, but I used the subatomic realm as a safety-net.

LightRey
03-22-2012, 01:27 AM
See I don't know if the information transfer works the same way at the superatomic level. As far as I know, there is no principle in chemistry that would allow for the "looping" of information in order to maintain consistency. You could be right, but I used the subatomic realm as a safety-net.
Well it doesn't have to work in the same way, it just has to yield the same results (i.e. explain what we can see happening in the games). For example, epigenetics could easily explain how genome interpretation can be changed, so that memories can be "recorded" in the DNA. The rest would simply be a matter of enzymes transferring information and possibly some parts regarding neurotransmitters to "replay" the memories inside the mind.

Agentbarto
03-22-2012, 01:53 AM
Well it doesn't have to work in the same way, it just has to yield the same results (i.e. explain what we can see happening in the games). For example, epigenetics could easily explain how genome interpretation can be changed, so that memories can be "recorded" in the DNA. The rest would simply be a matter of enzymes transferring information and possibly some parts regarding neurotransmitters to "replay" the memories inside the mind.

While epigenetic changes are much more fluid than genetic changes, I'm just not confident that "memories" could be encoded in such a way given that the information at that level would be vastly diluted within one generational time step. I look to the quantum realm because it forgoes this problem by allowing the memory to be an informational construct of the Animus. Memories function more like puzzles, wherein they are built by pooling all like information, which is ever-present, not simply extrapolated in their fully formed state. This helps explain the incomplete memory synchronizations, along with the psychological component that is reliant on the solidity user's psyche profile synchronizing with the new information being fed through the Animus into the mind. I feel that the Apples may work in the manner you describe because the tech. is similar but not the same.

Also for the purposes of my argument memories can be subjective, the information underpinning the memories is not, therefore in order to "record" memories, the information must first be encoded in a specific set. Memories become an emergent property of the information gained in the past at a subatomic level. No? I suppose I'm trying to explain the origins of the memories as opposed to simply taking memories as a given. In my mind memories are snapshots of the world at a given time, and in order to analyze the information and put together the puzzle pieces you need a really good computer.

LightRey
03-22-2012, 03:25 AM
While epigenetic changes are much more fluid than genetic changes, I'm just not confident that "memories" could be encoded in such a way given that the information at that level would be vastly diluted within one generational time step. I look to the quantum realm because it forgoes this problem by allowing the memory to be an informational construct of the Animus. Memories function more like puzzles, wherein they are built by pooling all like information, which is ever-present, not simply extrapolated in their fully formed state. This helps explain the incomplete memory synchronizations, along with the psychological component that is reliant on the solidity user's psyche profile synchronizing with the new information being fed through the Animus into the mind. I feel that the Apples may work in the manner you describe because the tech. is similar but not the same.

Also for the purposes of my argument memories can be subjective, the information underpinning the memories is not, therefore in order to "record" memories, the information must first be encoded in a specific set. Memories become an emergent property of the information gained in the past at a subatomic level. No? I suppose I'm trying to explain the origins of the memories as opposed to simply taking memories as a given. In my mind memories are snapshots of the world at a given time, and in order to analyze the information and put together the puzzle pieces you need a really good computer.
Well I obviously know it's a bit of a stretch, but I really have to argue here that the possibility of the human body dealing with quantum information to record memories isn't exactly likely either. It's really taking it to a whole new realm. My explanation can basically explain everything yours does as long as it has to rely on the subject to actually do all the work. This would mean that for example certain genes would have to be activated to trigger the process of reliving memories. This would also account for the fact that there have apparently been "accidental" events of people (and animals) reliving genetic memories as in AC1 Vidic refers to animal instinct being linked to genetic memory and Lucy refers to things like people with split personalities to (possibly) be linked to it as well.

What I'm trying to say here is, the body doesn't seem to be designed to function as a quantum computer and your theory requires human DNA to have a separate property completely unlike it's primary properties in the human body, which are purely chemical. To make the jump to something so completely different seems strange and unnecessary.

Agentbarto
03-22-2012, 03:55 AM
What I'm trying to say here is, the body doesn't seem to be designed to function as a quantum computer and your theory requires human DNA to have a separate property completely unlike it's primary properties in the human body, which are purely chemical. To make the jump to something so completely different seems strange and unnecessary.

But what allows for chemistry? That is essentially what I'm trying to answer, I don't view biochemistry as the answer because there are underlying mechanics and it is those mechanics I am referencing. Saying DNA's function is purely chemical is true but narrow in scope, because it is essentially energy transference and my assumption requires that energy be equated with information. Therefore again I just go a level deeper for everything. Not just DNA.

I suppose we have to keep in mind that this model is based off the Activation-Synthesis theory of dream creation so I imagine we may continue to have debates such as these as we propose two different models.