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Tetsou88
03-17-2012, 04:50 PM
Across the street from Miami International Mall, there is this building.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a108/Tetsou88/weregoingtodie.png
Notice the symbol at the top?

While it's not dead on, it's pretty close to the Abstergo logo. It also has that clean business look that Abstergo's buildings have.

There is a sign in one corner for Kabel, which I can't seem to find any information on via google, and the buildings actual name is the Adler Plaza. For those interested here's the link for it: http://www.adlergroup.com/listings/properties.aspx?propid=9

Also here is a link for all their "Property" notice the map uses their logo heavily:
http://www.adlergroup.com/properties.aspx

While it's only a property company, whenever I see this building and the Adler logo, I can't help but think it's a front for Abstergo. :p

rileypoole1234
03-17-2012, 04:52 PM
That actually is basically dead on. Weird. It's actually kind of funny. I wonder if anybody inside knows about AC and Abstergo.

freddie_1897
03-17-2012, 04:58 PM
Maybe it's a kind of advertisement

D.I.D.
03-17-2012, 05:43 PM
That actually is basically dead on. Weird. It's actually kind of funny. I wonder if anybody inside knows about AC and Abstergo.

I used to own a very old book of symbols and signets, and that sign was in there. It's thousands of years old - I think it was from the ancient Greece section, and it's quite possibly older than that.

JumpInTheFire13
03-17-2012, 06:05 PM
Maybe this is where Ubisoft got the idea from.

Jexx21
03-17-2012, 06:20 PM
Haha, that's awesome.

pacmanate
03-17-2012, 06:26 PM
Isn't that copyright on ubisofts part if they used that companies logo....

Tetsou88
03-17-2012, 07:06 PM
Isn't that copyright on ubisofts part if they used that companies logo....

There doesn't seem to be any copy right information on the logo. Also their shape is more like a flat shaped triangle:
http://www.adlergroup.com/images/headerLogo.jpg

I believe when it comes to logos, if it's been around for a while, and it isn't a blatant rip-off, you can use it.

For example, recognize this symbol?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Mitsuuroko.svg/220px-Mitsuuroko.svg.png

Most people will think it's the Triforce from Legend of Zelda, but it belongs to the Hojo Clan, a family from Feudal Japan that eventually died out. It's also used by a major company in Japan, who put it on everything:
http://www.mitsuuroko.co.jp/

frogger504
03-17-2012, 08:11 PM
Isn't that copyright on ubisofts part if they used that companies logo....

Ironically, if they didn't get permission, yes.

D.I.D.
03-17-2012, 08:23 PM
Ironically, if they didn't get permission, yes.

I don't think you can copyright any form of triskele though, or anything like it. It's simply too old. It's like using a pentagram for a logo - you can do it, but you can't expect to challenge anyone else for doing the same thing.

JumpInTheFire13
03-17-2012, 08:25 PM
What kind of company would use a pentagram for their logo? O.o

D.I.D.
03-17-2012, 08:26 PM
What kind of company would use a pentagram for their logo? O.o

Any number of tattoo businesses, omg scary jewellery companies, etc.

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=286921154678341

pedant!

brick177
03-17-2012, 10:38 PM
The AC wiki says the design is from this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_Triangle

frogger504
03-17-2012, 11:20 PM
I don't think you can copyright any form of triskele though, or anything like it. It's simply too old. It's like using a pentagram for a logo - you can do it, but you can't expect to challenge anyone else for doing the same thing.

Watch someone try to use the Ubisoft Logo in a game

Count the seconds after release of the game before they sue.

D.I.D.
03-17-2012, 11:31 PM
Watch someone try to use the Ubisoft Logo in a game

Count the seconds after release of the game before they sue.

Wow. It's like I'm talking in some other language.

I'm talking about a symbol thousands of years old, and you're talking about a late 20th century trademark.

Voltige2011
03-17-2012, 11:59 PM
Wow. It's like I'm talking in some other language.

I'm talking about a symbol thousands of years old, and you're talking about a late 20th century trademark.
People don't really read with much depth for things. One thing I've learned is to sum up the main idea several times throughout a single post.


What kind of company would use a pentagram for their logo? O.o
It's a perfect mathematical shape. So most likely a math related company. Well maybe not a math company with all the Satan references. Despite the fact the math is a much older symbol.

Tetsou88
03-18-2012, 12:20 AM
People don't really read with much depth for things. One thing I've learned is to sum up the main idea several times throughout a single post. This is so true.



It's a perfect mathematical shape. So most likely a math related company. Well maybe not a math company with all the Satan references. Despite the fact the math is a much older symbol.
A Pentagram actually has nothing to do with Satan, but people mistake it with the Pentacle.

D.I.D.
03-18-2012, 12:29 AM
people mistake it with the Pentacle.

You're absolutely right, I got that wrong.

I wish I could remember what region of the world that Abstergo logo is from, but it's so old it probably doesn't have a region as such (still pretty sure it was an ancient Mediterranean thing though). It's a predecessor of triskeles/triskelions. There's a symbol of Odin that's really similar with three crossed horns. The valknut is a more elaborate version of it, using three triangles interlocked instead of three sticks.

GeneralTrumbo
03-18-2012, 12:43 AM
Any number of tattoo businesses, omg scary jewellery companies, etc.

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=286921154678341

pedant!
Why?

GeneralTrumbo
03-18-2012, 12:46 AM
I think their is no denying that company's logo and Abstergo's logo is related in some way.

frogger504
03-18-2012, 12:47 AM
Wow. It's like I'm talking in some other language.

I'm talking about a symbol thousands of years old, and you're talking about a late 20th century trademark.

I understood quite well but why should a 20th century trademark be sued about?

Voltige2011
03-18-2012, 12:55 AM
I understood quite well but why should a 20th century trademark be sued about?
This post brightened up my day. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DontExplainTheJoke)

D.I.D.
03-18-2012, 02:21 AM
I understood quite well but why should a 20th century trademark be sued about?

Oh. My. God.

D.I.D.
03-18-2012, 02:24 AM
Why?

I don't know what you're asking.

I had been giving an example of another old symbol which can (and has) been used as a business logo, but is public domain: nobody can claim ownership of a five-pointed star, just as the Abstergo logo is an extremely old symbol.

brick177
03-18-2012, 02:24 AM
While the Pentacle and Pentagram are both sometimes associated with Satan, neither has anything to do with Satan. Both symbols were widely used throughout Pagan traditions and when Christianity converted pagans, they took everything about the Pagan religion and associated it with Satan to ostracize people who continued to practice.

I will add, as far as trademark law goes, there is no case for a trademark lawsuit if you were to blatantly rip off a symbol used in a game. You could have a copyright infringement issue if you stole the exact artwork used in the game but not a trademark issue. Abstergo is not a real company, therefore it is not a real trademark.

Funbun777
03-18-2012, 02:38 AM
hugh thats funny because i saw an even more authentic abstergo triangle on a pharmacy in orlando florida when i was on vacation with my family

couldent get a pic though

brick177
03-18-2012, 02:44 AM
I wonder if the triangle comes from the East India Trading Company. There's been speculation that the Templars might be using the EIC as a front in AC3 and that EIC eventually becomes Abstergo.

This is an EIC symbol complete with what could be Templar crosses. Imagine drawing a triangle around it....

http://images.wikia.com/pirates/images/6/6a/EITCo_flag.PNG

Jexx21
03-18-2012, 03:28 AM
Huh, imagine that.

Freemason logo:
http://www.kingsolomonslodge.org/images/square-and-compasses-200.png
East Indian Trading Company Logo:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/f/film_eic2.gif

Assassins and Templars all over the place.

Tetsou88
03-18-2012, 03:32 AM
Huh, imagine that.

Freemason logo:
http://www.kingsolomonslodge.org/images/square-and-compasses-200.png
East Indian Trading Company Logo:


Assassins and Templars all over the place.

Freemason's does look spot on for the Assassins. I wonder if the Freemasons will be related to the Assassins, even though historically they are derived from Templars.


hugh thats funny because i saw an even more authentic abstergo triangle on a pharmacy in orlando florida when i was on vacation with my family

couldent get a pic though

Two Abstergo like logos in Florida? I think the Templar may be around here.

Jexx21
03-18-2012, 03:39 AM
The Assassins did originally land in Florida at the beginning of the 16th century. (While Ezio was still in Assassin business, interestingly enough)

frogger504
03-18-2012, 04:43 AM
The Assassins did originally land in Florida at the beginning of the 16th century. (While Ezio was still in Assassin business, interestingly enough)

Are you sure ti was Assassins?

Also, it was off the coast of Florida actually.

GotCali
03-23-2012, 02:47 PM
01000101 01000100 01000101 01001110
01000101 01000100 01000101 01001110
01000101 01000100 01000101 01001110
01000101 01000100 01000101 01001110
01000101 01000100 01000101 01001110

I wish to be apart of them.

ToniTorsi
03-23-2012, 05:50 PM
Its just a Video Game, folks.

freddie_1897
03-23-2012, 05:57 PM
Freemason's does look spot on for the Assassins. I wonder if the Freemasons will be related to the Assassins, even though historically they are derived from Templars.
no, historically they are not derived from templars because its a VIDEO GAME!
don't say historically, thats the wrong word, say, 'in the assassins creed universe'

Tetsou88
03-23-2012, 06:04 PM
The Assassins did originally land in Florida at the beginning of the 16th century. (While Ezio was still in Assassin business, interestingly enough)

This is quite interesting to know.


Its just a Video Game, folks.

It's not like anyone is really taking this seriously. I was just pointing out the fact that when I see the building, I think of Abstergo.


no, historically they are not derived from templars because its a VIDEO GAME!
don't say historically, thats the wrong word, say, 'in the assassins creed universe'

Your arguement makes no sense. Historically they are derived from Templar's. Also, the video game tries to be somewhat historically accurate.

freddie_1897
03-23-2012, 06:12 PM
Your arguement makes no sense. Historically they are derived from Templar's. Also, the video game tries to be somewhat historically accurate.
look, if I'm wrong i will apologise, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the Templars were, in history were a christian group in the crusades, and so to say the freemasons were derived from the templars is saying that they are descendants of these templars IN REAL LIFE, now this might be the case, and if so i will apologise, but i just don't think that is true, hence me saying not to use the word historically if its not historically accurate, if it is lore made up for assassins creed then use the phrase, 'in the AC universe'

GeneralTrumbo
03-23-2012, 06:16 PM
look, if I'm wrong i will apologise, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the Templars were, in history were a christian group in the crusades, and so to say the freemasons were derived from the templars is saying that they are descendants of these templars IN REAL LIFE, now this might be the case, and if so i will apologise, but i just don't think that is true, hence me saying not to use the word historically if its not historically accurate, if it is lore made up for assassins creed then use the phrase, 'in the AC universe'
Actually, it is well-known fact that the freemasons of today actually DO in fact derive from templars. That is why these freemason groups have names like "The Knights of Columbus" and stuff like that. They DO derive from Templars. Most of the AC Universe has truth to it in real life.

D.I.D.
03-23-2012, 06:18 PM
Actually, it is well-known fact that the freemasons of today actually DO in fact derive from templars. That is why these freemason groups have names like "The Knights of Columbus" and stuff like that. They DO derive from Templars. Most of the AC Universe has truth to it in real life.

No.

Not fact.

Total fantasy.

LightRey
03-23-2012, 06:20 PM
look, if I'm wrong i will apologise, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the Templars were, in history were a christian group in the crusades, and so to say the freemasons were derived from the templars is saying that they are descendants of these templars IN REAL LIFE, now this might be the case, and if so i will apologise, but i just don't think that is true, hence me saying not to use the word historically if its not historically accurate, if it is lore made up for assassins creed then use the phrase, 'in the AC universe'
They're not. Freemasonry popped up (as in: became public) around the year 1600 in Great Britain. It's foundations remain completely unknown (to the public) to this day. It's foundations lie in masonry (ya don't say?) and the only connection it has to the Templar order is that some of its lodges were founded by former Templars, whose order had already been officially disbanded in 1312 (about 300 years before Freemasonry popped up). There is no strong connection between the Knights Templar and Freemasonry at all. Anyone who claims otherwise is either lying, misinformed or both.

GeneralTrumbo
03-23-2012, 06:23 PM
No.

Not fact.

Total fantasy.
Not sure if you're trolling or not. If you're not trolling, go do your research. According to you Knights Templar never existed, Free Masons don't exist. THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR ARE TODAY KNOWN AS FREE MASONS.

freddie_1897
03-23-2012, 06:24 PM
Actually, it is well-known fact that the freemasons of today actually DO in fact derive from templars. That is why these freemason groups have names like "The Knights of Columbus" and stuff like that. They DO derive from Templars. Most of the AC Universe has truth to it in real life.
but in real life the Templars weren't evil, in the crusades maybe, but the Freemasons weren't actually evil because they derived from templars, because templars weren't actually evil. and Templars aren't evil in the AC universe either because they were trying to help people

GeneralTrumbo
03-23-2012, 06:26 PM
Go into a couple Free Mason lodges. Tons of people in there have rings with the templar cross and they even have the crosses along the walls and everything.

freddie_1897
03-23-2012, 06:27 PM
Not sure if you're trolling or not. If you're not trolling, go do your research. According to you Knights Templar never existed, Free Masons don't exist. THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR ARE TODAY KNOWN AS FREE MASONS.
NO THEY ARE NOT, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE DERIVED FROM THEM DOES NOT MAKE THEM THE SAME AS TEMPLARS BUT WITH A DIFFERENT NAME, THE CRUSADES WERE WAY BEFORE THAT, IM SLIGHTLY RELATED TO HENRY THE EIGHTH (I'm not joking) ACCORDING TO YOU THAT MEANS I HAVE THE SAME NAME AS HIM.

AND HE IS NOT DENYING THAT ANY OF THEM EXISTED, HE'S IS OBSERVING THAT THEY ARE NOT RELATED

GeneralTrumbo
03-23-2012, 06:28 PM
but in real life the Templars weren't evil, in the crusades maybe, but the Freemasons weren't actually evil because they derived from templars, because templars weren't actually evil. and Templars aren't evil in the AC universe either because they were trying to help people
I never said they were "evil". The way they went about things weren't good, but they wanted good in the end either way.

LightRey
03-23-2012, 06:29 PM
Not sure if you're trolling or not. If you're not trolling, go do your research. According to you Knights Templar never existed, Free Masons don't exist. THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR ARE TODAY KNOWN AS FREE MASONS.
No they're not. The Knights Templar no longer exist. There are a few Masonic Lodges that take pride in a semi-Templar-ish origin (meaning that some people who unofficially continued on the Knights Templar in secrecy to avoid prosecution happened to be Freemasons as well) and that's it. Freemasonry is not founded on any Templar standards, it is not connected to Solomon's Temple in any way, and it's not a Christian Order either.

GeneralTrumbo
03-23-2012, 06:29 PM
NO THEY ARE NOT, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE DERIVED FROM THEM DOES NOT MAKE THEM THE SAME AS TEMPLARS BUT WITH A DIFFERENT NAME, THE CRUSADES WERE WAY BEFORE THAT, IM SLIGHTLY RELATED TO HENRY THE EIGHTH (I'm not joking) ACCORDING TO YOU THAT MEANS I HAVE THE SAME NAME AS HIM.
The templar idealogy has changed slightly. In today's society, they obviously don't run around killing people who don't believe in a supreme being. They aren't necessarily the "same" as templars, but they have a slight connection.

D.I.D.
03-23-2012, 06:30 PM
Not sure if you're trolling or not. If you're not trolling, go do your research. According to you Knights Templar never existed, Free Masons don't exist. THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR ARE TODAY KNOWN AS FREE MASONS.

What are you talking about?

The Knights Templar existed, and then they fell apart. Freemasons exist. The freemasons are not Templars, however, and there is absolutely zero evidence for the idea that Templars formed and faked their demise for the purpose of running the world.

If you mean that BS video that got posted the other day, I ripped on it because it was a pack of lies.

LightRey
03-23-2012, 06:30 PM
Go into a couple Free Mason lodges. Tons of people in there have rings with the templar cross and they even have the crosses along the walls and everything.
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/pics/mexico.masonic.lodge.room.op.jpg
http://raleigh770.org/Lodgeroom.jpg
Yeah, crosses everywhere. Get your facts straight.

GeneralTrumbo
03-23-2012, 06:35 PM
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/pics/mexico.masonic.lodge.room.op.jpg
http://raleigh770.org/Lodgeroom.jpg
Yeah, crosses everywhere. Get your facts straight.
Not in EVERY free mason lodge, only in certain ones. Of course every single one wasn't founded on templar standards, but there are certain ones who have been.

GeneralTrumbo
03-23-2012, 06:36 PM
But really, though, whats up with the upside-down stars in the place?

LightRey
03-23-2012, 06:39 PM
Not in EVERY free mason lodge, only in certain ones. Of course every single one wasn't founded on templar standards, but there are certain ones who have been.
Yes, those ones that were founded by Templar continuists. Those are few in number however and have little to nothing to do with the origins of Freemasonry itself, or with its customs. They're "specialized" lodges (basically similar to sub-fraternities of College fraternities).

Tetsou88
03-23-2012, 06:41 PM
Since at least the 18th century Freemasonry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry) has incorporated Templar symbols and rituals in a number of Masonic bodies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonic_bodies),[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar#cite_note-HC-4) most notably, the "Order of the Temple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_%28Freemasonry%29#The_Degree_of_Kn ight_of_the_Temple_.28Order_of_the_Temple.29)" the final order joined in "The United Religious, Military and Masonic Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta" commonly known as the Knights Templar. One theory of the origins of Freemasonry claims direct descent from the historical Knights Templar through its final fourteenth-century members who took refuge in Scotland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland), or other countries where the Templar suppression was not enforced. This theory is usually deprecated on grounds of lack of evidence, by both Masonic authorities[78] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar#cite_note-77) and historians.[79] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar#cite_note-fmt-78)


The Knights Templar is an international philanthropic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philanthropic) chivalric order affiliated with Freemasonry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry). Unlike the initial degrees conferred in a Masonic Lodge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonic_Lodge), which only require a belief in a Supreme Being (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God) regardless of religious affiliation, the Knights Templar is one of several additional Masonic Orders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonic_bodies) in which membership is open only to Freemasons who profess a belief in the Christian religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity).

Who is to say that they didn't have connections before than, but didn't make it obvious until the 18th century? Why else would there be a Knights Templar order for the Freemasons?

LightRey
03-23-2012, 06:45 PM
Who is to say that they didn't have connections before than, but didn't make it obvious until the 18th century? Why else would there be a Knights Templar order for the Freemasons?
Why? because Freemasonry was and still is largely secretive and Templars were being prosecuted for being Templars. The order accepted anyone with a belief in a supreme being, so they were allowed to be part of it and since the order does not allow political or religious discussion within its lodges, the order could and would not discriminate against them. Naturally, as it was a safe haven for them, they used it to continue their own practices by basically creating a sub-order within Freemasonry, specifically meant for Templars.

D.I.D.
03-23-2012, 06:55 PM
Bottom line: we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation if Dan Brown hadn't popularised and reanimated the big Prieueré de Sion hoax, and specifically "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail". That's why every nutjob Alex Jones fan is still babbling on about this, and it's as fake as The Hitler Diaries.

Tetsou88
03-23-2012, 07:02 PM
Bottom line: we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation if Dan Brown hadn't popularised and reanimated the big Prieueré de Sion hoax, and specifically "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail". That's why every nutjob Alex Jones fan is still babbling on about this, and it's as fake as The Hitler Diaries.

I've never read either of the books, I did the the movie, but can't remember it. I also don't know who Alex Jones is. Also the topic has ventured off from the original one, the fact that whenever I see the building, I think of Abstergo, not that there are secret NWO's.

I also believe there is a chance that Freemasons can be related to Knights Templar, but alas, I don't think they're going to take over the world either.

D.I.D.
03-23-2012, 07:14 PM
I've never read either of the books, I did the the movie, but can't remember it. I also don't know who Alex Jones is. Also the topic has ventured off from the original one, the fact that whenever I see the building, I think of Abstergo, not that there are secret NWO's.

I also believe there is a chance that Freemasons can be related to Knights Templar, but alas, I don't think they're going to take over the world either.

Alright, I'm being a little over-dramatic because this phenomenon pisses me off. I don't mind curiosity about sly appropriation of older symbols and lore to bolster another organisation; that's an interesting subject and I can see what the draw is there. True curiosity is great, but sometimes it gets like that Simpsons treehouse scene, when the kids decide their parents are disappearing into the bedroom because they're reverse vampires.

I get more annoyed when told by someone like Trumbo that I "should do my research". It shouldn't bother me. I know it's a crock, but it stepped over a line with the anti-Jewish stuff, and it doubles-down on the ignorance in the process. The Priory of Sion scam pulled in another hoax, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in order to turn this into a Jewish plot to enslave the world. It's reprehensible on a social level and an intellectual level at the same time.

blazefp
03-23-2012, 07:29 PM
Does anybody know when was Abstergo created? The Adler Group apparently has over 50 y.o.

LightRey
03-23-2012, 07:37 PM
Does anybody know when was Abstergo created? The Adler Group apparently has over 50 y.o.
It was formed in 1937.

blazefp
03-23-2012, 07:41 PM
It was formed in 1937.

Cazzo I thought this would be another cool similarity :(

Tetsou88
03-23-2012, 07:48 PM
It was formed in 1937.


Cazzo I thought this would be another cool similarity :(

Sam Adler relocated to South Florida in the mid-1950s. His first projects were residential developments in North Bay Village in 1957, including East Drive Apartments and The Anchorage.

Kind of a similarity, although it's 20 years later.

It would be hilarious if there was a Adler building at 43 39 19 N 75 27 42 W, but sadly it's in the middle of nowhere.

Kraverus
07-26-2016, 10:07 PM
https://www.google.cl/maps/@22.7331837,-12.4871159,999m/data=!3m1!1e3

Well , here another one.

HDinHB
07-27-2016, 01:42 AM
Fascinating.

Welcome to the forum!