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stingray10
03-14-2012, 08:19 PM
Okay, if you had to choose a side which one would you take?

Ii was thinking the other day are the templars really that wrong? I mean yes, the ways that they choose to achieve peace are morally incorrect and evil buth the overall outcome of peace for all would be great at the cost of free will. Being fairly honest, humans will probably lead to their own demise...thoughts? :)

FilipinoNinja67
03-14-2012, 08:21 PM
I would probably be a templar because they have the vacation houses and limos!

I would seriously be a templar though because of all the negative consequences that free will would bring. I dont think they would eliminate free will but mabye use the apples to put a firm grip on it and make sure everyone lives their lives and does their jobs.

lothario-da-be
03-14-2012, 08:50 PM
i think a templar, it gives you much more extras then being an assassin. also if you play total war games you just want to destroy everything and you begin with minor nations,you hate rebels and riots... we are all templars inside if you have power you will choose that way

blazefp
03-14-2012, 08:51 PM
Assassin, I like parkour :p If humanity really wishes to live in peace (boring btw) it's humanity that should make the first step towards it, not a strict group of men that no one knows with personal interests. For that we already have the government.

There was once a thread just like this and templars didn't lose for much actually. There're a lot of templars in an assassin's creed forum lol

eagleforlife1
03-14-2012, 08:53 PM
Assassin, I like parkour :p If humanity really wishes to live in peace (boring btw) it's humanity that should take the first step towards it, not a strict group of men that no one knows with personal interests. For that we already have the government.

There was once a thread just like this and templars didn't lose for much actually. There're a lot of templars in an assassin's creed forum lol

Peace, boring? First time I've ever heard that said. I'm glad that you find all the pointless bloodshed entertaining, .

blazefp
03-14-2012, 08:55 PM
Peace, boring? First time I've ever heard that said. I'm glad that you find all the pointless bloodshed entertaining, .

Once worldwide peace is achieved there'll be nothing for us humans to do here. It's our constant fight for peace that makes us evolve and move forward

lothario-da-be
03-14-2012, 08:56 PM
in the modern times you are more "born" into the assassin order, while the templars are recruiting everyone they can

itsamea-mario
03-14-2012, 08:59 PM
Peace, boring? First time I've ever heard that said. I'm glad that you find all the pointless bloodshed entertaining, .

Humans thrive on violence.
You may not like to admit it but as long as people can do what they want, there will be conflict.

Jexx21
03-14-2012, 09:15 PM
Assassin, because I want to keep free will no matter what. If there has to be war, so be it.

I'm an Autobot, not a Decepticon.

stingray10
03-14-2012, 09:21 PM
assassin, because i want to keep free will no matter what. If there has to be war, so be it.

I'm an autobot, not a decepticon.

lol.

BK-110
03-14-2012, 09:24 PM
Personally I feel like a peaceful world built on mind control is meaningless. It's false, artificial peace. I would rather live in a world with individuality and the ability to choose, a world where we strive for peace by our own decisions, however faulted we are, and even though we may never reach it. A true, honest attempt to reach peace just feels more right to me. So yeah, I'm on the side of the Assassins...

Dejan507
03-14-2012, 09:33 PM
I was really thinking about this yesterday..
I think I would go for the Templars since if I willingly accept them, I won't be brainwashed and whatnot.
Free houses and money weehee!

rileypoole1234
03-14-2012, 09:39 PM
I'd want the skills of the Assassin's but the knowledge of the Templars. The Templars seem to know so many of the worlds best kept secrets, they have so much information about treasures, world events, everything.

YuurHeen
03-14-2012, 09:42 PM
With mind controlled peace you dont have games like these anymore so i cant be a templer.

I am probably in between. I dont agree with assassins either.

AdamXEve
03-14-2012, 09:46 PM
The Assassins' idea is more noble, but the Templars have the more reasonable concept. People don't know what's best for them.

Jexx21
03-14-2012, 09:58 PM
Keep in mind that Templars probably wouldn't make people into mindless drones (for long anyway), they'd probably let people do stuff, but with numerous limitations and they would give the illusion of free-will (but they wouldn't actually have it).

Sukramo
03-14-2012, 10:06 PM
If there is anything humanity shows time and time agani, its that we are very very stupid, even regularly killing (!!!) eachother. No other animal does that.

On the other hand we have the most power any speicies has ever had on this planet. Humans are children, eagerly toying with things they have no real understanding of.

Worse yet, we cant even stop using stuff we know are bad for the world. We are uncapable of denying anything for ourselves.

The Templars will bring order and control humanity for its own good. If the Templars were real I would join them in a heartbeat, even knowing that the Assasains would try to take me out.

One extremly fine example of the Templars doing good is starting World war two. Yes many people died and suffered. But what did we get in return? A unified Europe and THE GREATEST economic rise ever (post war to the oil crisis of 1973)

Humanity MUST be guided by individuals more intelligent than the masses.


Also:


Once worldwide peace is achieved there'll be nothing for us humans to do here.

I am sorry but that is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

Technology, space pioneering, inhabiting other planets.........The oportunities are endless. So sad none of us will ever live to see it.

itsamea-mario
03-14-2012, 10:34 PM
Other animals kill eachother. Most other animals do. Ants even have wars.

Sukramo
03-14-2012, 10:39 PM
Animals kill eachother for survival. Humans kill eachother over compeltly irrelevant issues, one example is world war one. No ones existance was threatened. There was no shortage of food.

Ant wars also do not affect nature arround them in any noticable way. A nuclear war would be a disater for the enviroment.

LightRey
03-14-2012, 10:56 PM
Humans thrive on violence.
You may not like to admit it but as long as people can do what they want, there will be conflict.
Only if it's beneficial to our species.

Gil_217
03-14-2012, 11:04 PM
In order to achieve peace, only the Templar's methods are the ones that could lead to "peace", but I don't think we can qualify that as true peace, because what the Templar's envision to the world does not correspond to peace, it's much more about control and order.

The Assassin's main goal is to preserve free will, even if that means a flawed humanity. Like the Assassin's, I recognize that by preserving free will, it's impossible to achieve peace.

In the end, both want peace, the difference is they use different methods, although the funny thing is, in my opinion, no one, neither the Assassin's nor the Templars can in the end achieve true peace.

Peace doesn't exist.

With this said, I might add that I sympathize with the Templars, like I do with the Assassin's, for different reasons, but in the end, I prefer to live in a world where free will exists.

Sukramo
03-14-2012, 11:10 PM
Peace doesn't exist.


Peace between nations exist, and that was the main focus of AC1.


I prefer to live in a world where free will exists.

This is funny, because there is no such thing as true free will.

Peace is just one goal for the templars on their way to a perfect society.

Currently I feel the Assasains are abit too dependant on the templars to exist. The whole series is basicaly:

Templars------------------------>Has a grand plan.

Assasains----------------->Has no plan, only seeks to stop the templars.

Gil_217
03-14-2012, 11:16 PM
Peace between nations exist, and that was the main focus of AC1.



This is funny, because there is no such thing as true free will.

Peace is just one goal for the templars on their way to a perfect society.

Currently I feel the Assasains are abit too dependant on the templars to exist. The whole series is basicaly:

Templars------------------------>Has a grand plan.

Assasains----------------->Has no plan, only seeks to stop the templars.

When I said peace doesn't exist, I meant eternal peace, worldwide peace, a world without violence.

About free will, I didn't say that true free will exist, I meant that I prefer to live in a world where sometimes I can make my own decisions, do what I want, sometimes with limitations, and not in a world where someone can control others all the time, 24/7, manipulating events, and deciding everything that happens in the world.

Edit: I agree with you on the last part, and that's the Assassin's mission, when they say they want to preserve free will, they will automatically fight others who are trying to eliminate it.

Sukramo
03-14-2012, 11:21 PM
a world without violence

Violence is a naturual human instinct. We need some of it to be stable individuals. When the templars say they want peace it means no war and everything controlled by one order.

Worldwide peace is a realistic goal that many humans work for.


I meant that I prefer to live in a world where sometimes I can make my own decisions, do what I want, sometimes with limitations, and not in a world where someone can control others all the time, 24/7, manipulating events, and deciding everything that happens in the world.

And the templars let you do that. The templars rule in the shadows and keep up the illusion of your free will. Its a win- win situation!

dxsxhxcx
03-14-2012, 11:25 PM
Currently I feel the Assasains are abit too dependant on the templars to exist. The whole series is basicaly:

Templars------------------------>Has a grand plan.

Assasains----------------->Has no plan, only seeks to stop the templars.

"good" can't exist without "evil" and vice versa

and "stop the templars" looks like a plan to me...

Gil_217
03-14-2012, 11:28 PM
Violence is a naturual human instinct. We need some of it to be stable individuals. When the templars say they want peace it means no war and everything controlled by one order.

Worldwide peace is a realistic goal that many humans work for.

And the templars let you do that. The templars rule in the shadows and keep up the illusion of your free will. Its a win- win situation!

How do you even know what the Templars want?

How do you know what will happen and what will the Templars do if they launch the satellite?

Jexx21
03-14-2012, 11:30 PM
The Assassins were formed to give Humans free will, and to do anything to keep their free will. That is their goal.

Sukramo
03-14-2012, 11:36 PM
"good" can't exist without "evil" and vice versa

Neither the templars or assasains can be placed as good or evil.



and "stop the templars" looks like a plan to me...

So if the templars somehow vansih, then what will the brotherhood do? Kill Greedy individuals? I just feel the organization needs to make goals of their own, like educating the masses, helping the poor etc.


How do you even know what the Templars want?

Control mankind towards their ideals, attain peace, unlock the full potential of humanity. Its stated across the books, games and agent files of ACR.


How do you know what will happen if they launch the satellite?

Well Vidic in the DLC says "Utopia will be within reach" The agent files of ACR says its about tracking individuals but also says they want to control with it.

My guess: Global piece of Eden effect.

dxsxhxcx
03-14-2012, 11:40 PM
The Assassins were formed to give Humans free will, and to do anything to keep their free will. That is their goal.

I think "assure humans' free will" is better than "give", we already have free will, the assassins won't give us more than we already have if they achieve their goal.....

Gil_217
03-14-2012, 11:41 PM
And the templars let you do that. The templars rule in the shadows and keep up the illusion of your free will. Its a win- win situation!

And lol about them ruling in the shadows, that's what they were doing the entire time, that's why they are launching the satellite now, there's no need to rule in the shadows anymore, they can do it in plain sight, and no one can do nothing about it.

When I said all of that about you knowing what the Templars want, I was only pointing out at your comment about them ruling in the shadows and about what they will do if they launch the satellite.

This discussion we're having is kinda pointless because If they launch the satellite they can rule the world as they want, in the way they want.

UrDeviant1
03-14-2012, 11:43 PM
Assassin. Because without free-will we loose the ability to fight for what we believe In. Without the ability to fight for what we believe In, we loose hope. Without hope, we might as well give up. Real talk :cool:

Sukramo
03-14-2012, 11:48 PM
They can rule the world as they want, in the way they want.

And the world will be a much better place for it.



Because without free-will we loose the ability to fight for what we believe In. Without the ability to fight for what we believe In, we loose hope. Without hope, we might as well give up.


Cliche

Gil_217
03-14-2012, 11:51 PM
And the world will be a much better place for it.

Problem is, that is completely subjective. Not saying that is wrong, but I guess very few people agree with that vision.

freddie_1897
03-14-2012, 11:52 PM
Assassin, there's no point in living in a world where you don't have the freedom to do what you want, that's why there was an American revolution, and that's why there has been the arab spring

UrDeviant1
03-14-2012, 11:53 PM
And the world will be a much better place for it.



Cliche

Sometimes things are Cliche for a reason. Because they're true.

Sukramo
03-14-2012, 11:55 PM
Sometimes things are Cliche for a reason. Because they're true.

Avoid clichés like the plague.

itsamea-mario
03-14-2012, 11:56 PM
Assassin. Because without free-will we loose the ability to fight for what we believe In. Without the ability to fight for what we believe In, we loose hope. Without hope, we might as well give up. Real talk :cool:

When was the last time you fought for something you believed in?

Gil_217
03-14-2012, 11:57 PM
Sometimes things are Cliche for a reason. Because they're true.

What is the truth?

Sukramo
03-14-2012, 11:58 PM
When was the last time you fought for something you believed in?

Define "fighting". Such a vague term.


What is the truth?

There is no univeral truth, same way X is not a constant value.

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 12:00 AM
Define "fighting". Such a vague term.



There is no univeral truth, same way X is not a constant value.

Actually risking something in order to defeat someone or something.

Gil_217
03-15-2012, 12:00 AM
Define "fighting". Such a vague term.



There is no univeral truth, same way X is not a constant value.

That's why I was asking him, why did you have to answer it god dammit!!

He still can answer it with a different answer.

Acrimonious_Nin
03-15-2012, 12:05 AM
Hahahahahhahahah ^

Gil_217
03-15-2012, 12:08 AM
Not funny acrimonious, not funny.

UrDeviant1
03-15-2012, 12:09 AM
When was the last time you fought for something you believed in?

What do you mean by that? what can civilians like me do to fight for what we believe In, Is that what you mean? I'v been part of protests, tried to be outspoken when I don't like what the so called leaders of civilizations are doing. I could do more, no doubt. Same question goes to you?

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 12:16 AM
What do you mean by that? what can civilians like me do to fight for what we believe In, Is that what you mean? I'v been part of protests, tried to be outspoken when I don't like what the so called leaders of civilizations are doing. I could do more, no doubt. Same question goes to you?

My point Is that all these people who say they want free will so they can fight for what they believe in, rarely do.
And when they do, it doesn't achieve much.

Free will is a lie.

UrDeviant1
03-15-2012, 12:23 AM
My point Is that all these people who say they want free will so they can fight for what they believe in, rarely do.
And when they do, it doesn't achieve much.

Free will is a lie.

So when you see people die for what they believe In, fighting against their governments, overthrowing them and bringing about revolutions, you think there is not point to this?

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 12:27 AM
So when you see people die for what they believe In, fighting against their governments, overthrowing them and bringing about revolutions, you think there is not point to this?

When rebels overthrow governents who's then in charge?
The rebels, people who can't stand authority and take a violent approach to problems.

Civilisation has existed for thousands if years, constant cycles of power, and we're no closer to world peace and social justice than we ever were.

Acrimonious_Nin
03-15-2012, 12:27 AM
My point Is that all these people who say they want free will so they can fight for what they believe in, rarely do.
And when they do, it doesn't achieve much.

Free will is a lie.

True lol there can only be free choice :D it should be called influenced will

freddie_1897
03-15-2012, 12:28 AM
I always remember this quote by Martin Luther king...
"if a man hasn't discovered something he will die for, he isn't fit to live"
This shows that you have to fight to be free, and it is better to be than live in a world without freedom

UrDeviant1
03-15-2012, 12:43 AM
When rebels overthrow governents who's then in charge?
The rebels, people who can't stand authority and take a violent approach to problems.

Civilisation has existed for thousands if years, constant cycles of power, and we're no closer to world peace and social justice than we ever were.

I agree with that. But I still think people should fight, otherwise corrupt leaders will go unchecked and continue to do monstrous things to largely Innocent people, without consequence. Even If It doesn't them free-will, It's still a step forward.

frogger504
03-15-2012, 12:57 AM
I would be a freelancer. Neither a Templar or an Assassin, I half agree with both factions but will be influenced by neither.

Xenoxin
03-15-2012, 01:16 AM
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety- Benjamin Franklin

De Filosoof
03-15-2012, 02:35 AM
I find it kinda funny that many people on this forum don't really get the point of AC.

De Filosoof
03-15-2012, 02:37 AM
I would probably be a templar because they have the vacation houses and limos!

I would seriously be a templar though because of all the negative consequences that free will would bring. I dont think they would eliminate free will but mabye use the apples to put a firm grip on it and make sure everyone lives their lives and does their jobs.

Lol. you really don't get the point.

frogger504
03-15-2012, 02:44 AM
Lol. you really don't get the point.


Do you think it is just Black and White and that Templars just want to rule the world? It isn't, AC1 was the exact opposite of that. In ACR there was an Apprentice mission in which Ezio says that they take care of their people, they aren't just evil oppressors

De Filosoof
03-15-2012, 02:52 AM
Do you think it is just Black and White and that Templars just want to rule the world? It isn't, AC1 was the exact opposite of that. In ACR there was an Apprentice mission in which Ezio says that they take care of their people, they aren't just evil oppressors
I'm not saying things are black and white but yes they try to rule the world by keeping the people ignorant.
There was a message in the ACR multiplayer cutscene with all the luxury stuff.
And take care of their people? look at the ACR multiplayer cutscene at 7.35 :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1akjsLTXX9E

frogger504
03-15-2012, 02:56 AM
I'm not saying things are black and white but yes they try to rule the world by keeping the people ignorant.
There was a message in the ACR multiplayer cutscene with all the luxury stuff.
And take care of their people? look at the ACR multiplayer cutscene at 7.35 :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1akjsLTXX9E

All they did was chip him, to make sure he was loyal, not like if the Assassins didn't take desperate measures to secure loyalty. Before they forced them to cut off their fingers, then they branded their finger and made them jump several stories, now they make them fall several stories and who knows what else.

De Filosoof
03-15-2012, 03:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjgE8Lw5YaQ

Take the blue pill or the red pill.

frogger504
03-15-2012, 03:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjgE8Lw5YaQ

Take the blue pill or the red pill.

Huh?

FilipinoNinja67
03-15-2012, 04:24 AM
I find it kinda funny that many people on this forum don't really get the point of AC.

We can interpret anything any way we want. We may not interpret it the same way that you do but that doesnt mean we are wrong. With the templars in control there would be no war, no crime, no lieing, cheating, or discrimination. Every man would be equal and everything would be fair.

Plus they have cookies.

Legendz54
03-15-2012, 05:02 AM
i would choose assassin because we are on this earth to live life the way we choose and decide our own paths of life, What makes the world unique is that we are all different and do different things. Controlling people would not be the right thing to do.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-15-2012, 05:11 AM
Has anyone ever stopped to contemplate the falacy of what the Assassins are fighting for? They're fighting for the free will of all man kind, which includes the ability to choose to control others, and enslave them, as the Templars are setting out to do. Now, I don't believe anyone here would honestly choose those things. I myself would be an Assassin. But with that in mind, my point is that the Assassins fight for the freedoms of all by restricting the rights of the few.

frogger504
03-15-2012, 05:38 AM
Has anyone ever stopped to contemplate the falacy of what the Assassins are fighting for? They're fighting for the free will of all man kind, which includes the ability to choose to control others, and enslave them, as the Templars are setting out to do. Now, I don't believe anyone here would honestly choose those things. I myself would be an Assassin. But with that in mind, my point is that the Assassins fight for the freedoms of all by restricting the rights of the few.

Doesn't every faction on Earth? In fiction (In a way that is what Templars want), and reality?

Keyword is fight.

Sukramo
03-15-2012, 07:20 AM
and we're no closer to world peace and social justice than we ever were

Sory but thats just true. Compare 200 years ago (Not general voting) and tons of war between countries who would NEVER fight with eachother today (England, France, Germany, US)

We sre getting towards world peace. As for social justice..............Its better now then before but I seriously doubt we will ever get there unless we get really good tech and at that point almost everyone will get super fat.



I would be a freelancer. Neither a Templar or an Assassin, I half agree with both factions but will be influenced by neither.


The Privateer. Have some booze.



They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety- Benjamin Franklin


The Templars give you lots of liberty. Also that quote expects the person to freely accept the choice, you dont with the Templars.


I'm not saying things are black and white but yes they try to rule the world by keeping the people ignorant.

The templars try to control everyone.

The Assasains are very passive when it dosent come to Templars.

What that means for me is that the Templars try to do what they belive will help humanity as a whole. And that the Assasains dont do enogh. They dofnt try to stop wars and they dont help the poor nearly enogh.

Kit572
03-15-2012, 08:39 AM
The templars killed anyone who wasn't religious.

I think i will be an assassin thanks.


I agree with mani60cent12 aswell. And i'm sure most other people do.

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 08:44 AM
i would choose assassin because we were put on this earth to live life the way we choose and decide our own paths of life, What makes the world unique is that we are all different and do different things. Controlling people would not be the right thing to do.

Put on this earth? By whom?

Gil_217
03-15-2012, 08:56 AM
i would choose assassin because we were put on this earth to live life the way we choose and decide our own paths of life, What makes the world unique is that we are all different and do different things. Controlling people would not be the right thing to do.

How do you even know how we are "supposed" to live ?

Flying-Assassin
03-15-2012, 08:59 AM
Assassin. I conform to all of their belief and morals; plus I'd get some awesome weapons and a badass hoodie.

Legendz54
03-15-2012, 10:34 AM
How do you even know how we are "supposed" to live ?

I dont know how we are supposed to live, that's for people to decide ;) If we were supposed to live a certain way i think that would of happened by now

Sukramo
03-15-2012, 11:33 AM
The templars killed anyone who wasn't religious.



Untrue, the real historical order was quite peaceful when it came to dealing with civilians.

And no one in the in-game order is even religious.

LightRey
03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
The Templars are striving for a bland, non-diverse, peaceful global society, which from an evolutionary perspective is extremely dangerous and should be avoided at all costs.

GLHS
03-15-2012, 11:52 AM
I remember another thread asking the same question a few months ago.....but I'll say the same thing here I did in that one. I'm an Assassin all the way. Templars may be more technical and scientific, but Assassin's are more moral and don't wish to control humanity.

Jexx21
03-15-2012, 12:19 PM
The templars killed anyone who wasn't religious.

I think i will be an assassin thanks.


I agree with mani60cent12 aswell. And i'm sure most other people do.

It's funny because in-game, the Templars are the non-religious group, while the Assassins have people of multiple religions in it's ranks.

freddie_1897
03-15-2012, 04:58 PM
Has anyone ever stopped to contemplate the falacy of what the Assassins are fighting for? They're fighting for the free will of all man kind, which includes the ability to choose to control others, and enslave them, as the Templars are setting out to do. Now, I don't believe anyone here would honestly choose those things. I myself would be an Assassin. But with that in mind, my point is that the Assassins fight for the freedoms of all by restricting the rights of the few.
no, i mean thats a fair opinion, but that very fact contradicts what the assassins are fighting for, its like the laws of robotics:
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.
using this i have developed the laws of the assassin, which shall be known as freddie's laws of the assassins:

1. An assassin must stop all men or women who seek to control or harm innocent people in any way

2. An assassin must allow all men and women the right to free will as long as it doesn't contradict with the first law

3. An assassin may stop those who abuse these rules EVEN IF this contradicts with the first or second laws

pirate1802
03-15-2012, 05:22 PM
Nice replies. I'd go with the Templars, they maybe brutal but they are practical. Assassins are idealists but very impractical. Also someone said Assassins spring to life only when it comes to the Templars, that is because it would be a very boring game where they just roam about helping the poor and dealing with individual criminals/thieves. Also, if I'm not wrong in AC1, Altair didn't initially know his targets were all templars. To him they were just a bunch of bad people. And in ACR they were showed to be opposing the ottoman conquest and later signing a peace treaty or atleast being involved in the ottoman expansion in some way. Same is with mediterranean side missions, many of them deal with opposing templars, but many are just plain against oppressing kings/queens.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-15-2012, 05:39 PM
no, i mean thats a fair opinion, but that very fact contradicts what the assassins are fighting for, its like the laws of robotics:
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.
using this i have developed the laws of the assassin, which shall be known as freddie's laws of the assassins:

1. An assassin must stop all men or women who seek to control or harm innocent people in any way

2. An assassin must allow all men and women the right to free will as long as it doesn't contradict with the first law

3. An assassin may stop those who abuse these rules EVEN IF this contradicts with the first or second laws

I don't dig it, and your poem sucks.

frogger504
03-15-2012, 05:51 PM
no, i mean thats a fair opinion, but that very fact contradicts what the assassins are fighting for, its like the laws of robotics:
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.
using this i have developed the laws of the assassin, which shall be known as freddie's laws of the assassins:

1. An assassin must stop all men or women who seek to control or harm innocent people in any way

2. An assassin must allow all men and women the right to free will as long as it doesn't contradict with the first law

3. An assassin may stop those who abuse these rules EVEN IF this contradicts with the first or second laws

That actually seems legit.

I seriously see the Assassins following that unseen code, nice.

freddie_1897
03-15-2012, 05:52 PM
I don't dig it, and your poem sucks.
thats not very nice :(, and its not a poem

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 05:54 PM
I don't dig it, and your poem sucks.

Poem?

frogger504
03-15-2012, 06:00 PM
Poem?

His signature, and it is very deep.

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 06:05 PM
Oh, but one does find it rather comical.

freddie_1897
03-15-2012, 06:07 PM
i am an incredible poet, observe...

roses are unicorns, violets are green, welcome to the party
im charlie sheen

frogger504
03-15-2012, 06:15 PM
i am an incredible poet, observe...

roses are unicorns, violets are green, welcome to the party
im charlie sheen

Aw, you had me until Charlie Sheen.

Had you said I am a Horse, or a Dog, or a Cloud, or almost anything else I would have been stuck in deep thought for hours.

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 06:20 PM
I prefer this one:

Roses are red
Violets are blue
Some poems rhyme
This one doesn't.

telcontar7
03-15-2012, 06:22 PM
All they did was chip him, to make sure he was loyal, not like if the Assassins didn't take desperate measures to secure loyalty. Before they forced them to cut off their fingers, then they branded their finger and made them jump several stories, now they make them fall several stories and who knows what else.
Branding their finger was only symbolic and they were trained to jump, it was part of their job. They weren't controlled after that and weren't under a constant threat of death, which could be achieved by simply pressing a ****on (I assume that chip does more than only monitoring the location of templar agents).

frogger504
03-15-2012, 06:36 PM
Branding their finger was only symbolic and they were trained to jump, it was part of their job. They weren't controlled after that and weren't under a constant threat of death, which could be achieved by simply pressing a ****on (I assume that chip does more than only monitoring the location of templar agents).

Well that's of course is just an assumption, which is fair, but don't treat it as fact when dealing with general discussion on Templars. They weren't cruel evil people as everyone seems to make them out to be. Just because someone works under the titl "Templar" doesn't mean they were evil oppressors bent on ruling the world. It was just a cause they were fighting for, less cynical than the Assassins imo. At least Templars had a cause.

Anyways, look at some Templars like the one who killed Ezio, if I didn't know Ezio was an Assassin I 'd say his killer was, he allowed Ezio his final rites and sent him off in peace.Copernicus was a Templar at one point. People seem too get too caught up by that Title; Templar. Which is a reason why I hate titles so much, they often get over-examined and cause misunderstandings.

Symbolic or not, Assassins brnded their recruits as a symbol of loyalty, same with cutting their fingers off and doing a Leap Of Faith.

Where does it say or show that Templars treated their brothers with death threats? The Templars are a Brotherhood as well. They are loyal to their recruits, heck, they give them mansions and limos and give them the good life.

FilipinoNinja67
03-15-2012, 06:41 PM
i am an incredible poet, observe...

roses are unicorns, violets are green, welcome to the party
im charlie sheen

Nice!

Im a rappah

Call of duty by day
Call of duty by night
One vee one me
Cuz i cant beat you in a fight

I be hatin
I be screamin
From the buzkill
I be losin mah tharill

Erry day i go mlg
Unless of course i gotta pee
I run dat pro circuit
As i sit on my couch and j*** it!

Now some other modern rap elements in the song...

*!#!#!!#!*!*&%$##!!*$!#%$*%#$*%#$*%#$!$!! Best seller rap right there....

Assassin_M
03-15-2012, 07:16 PM
Anyways, look at some Templars like the one who killed Ezio,
What ?

frogger504
03-15-2012, 07:20 PM
What ?

That kid was a Templar, he had Templar bracer and poisoned him when he grabbed his arm, Ezio recognized it and got mad, then the dude said to have courage and to get some rest.

Then he walked away and Ezio died.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-15-2012, 07:21 PM
http://images.quickblogcast.com/4/4/9/5/1/124225-115944/You_Suck!!.JPG

Now I have a way to find your magnificent poems.

Assassin_M
03-15-2012, 07:23 PM
That kid was a Templar, he had Templar bracer and poisoned him when he grabbed his arm, Ezio recognized it and got mad, then the dude said to have courage and to get some rest.

Then he walked away and Ezio died.
This is all speculation..
Ubigabe said that this guy has no significance what so ever..

freddie_1897
03-15-2012, 07:26 PM
My magnificent poems are only found on bing, sorry

frogger504
03-15-2012, 07:45 PM
This is all speculation..
Ubigabe said that this guy has no significance what so ever..

Didn't he also say that the red steps leading to Lucy was just a wrong choice in color?

Dude had a Templar Bracer and refused to let go of Ezio's hand then he died, that much is not speculation.

freddie_1897
03-15-2012, 08:27 PM
observe my newest poem:
roses are black,
violets are white
there all the same
im colourblind

Jexx21
03-15-2012, 08:50 PM
Thanks for spoiling embers for me, jerk.

Not to mention that those footprints weren't leading to Lucy, they were just showing the way back to the HQ.

And if they were supposed to lead to Lucy, why wasn't Lucy red?

Eagle Vision is probably connected to what the user knows (or think he knows).

LightRey
03-15-2012, 08:59 PM
Didn't he also say that the red steps leading to Lucy was just a wrong choice in color?

Dude had a Templar Bracer and refused to let go of Ezio's hand then he died, that much is not speculation.
The devs long ago stated that the footprints were those of the entire team carrying the stuff from the van to the villa. They were only there to guide people back to the villa in case they got lost. They are completely unrelated [SPOILER] to Lucy being a Templar agent.

Gil_217
03-15-2012, 09:05 PM
This is all speculation..
Ubigabe said that this guy has no significance what so ever..

Actually, UbiGabe already has retracted that statement, saying that he did not knew all the details behind the young man and his significance in the scene.

It's also worth to mention that Darby McDevitt talked about him too, I can't remember exactly what he said, but he mentioned that he was a completely new character, and not just some random person with no significance.

LightRey
03-15-2012, 09:16 PM
Actually, UbiGabe already has retracted that statement, saying that he did not knew all the details behind the young man and his significance in the scene.

It's also worth to mention that Darby McDevitt talked about him too, I can't remember exactly what he said, but he mentioned that he was a completely new character, and not just some random person with no significance.
This is true. However, there is no reason to read anything more into the situation than what was shown. Ezio was clearly sick and seeing as he didn't bleed when he died and there wasn't even a reason for the Templars to still go after Ezio, I see absolutely no good reason to assume that he died of anything other than his illness.

frogger504
03-15-2012, 09:34 PM
This is true. However, there is no reason to read anything more into the situation than what was shown. Ezio was clearly sick and seeing as he didn't bleed when he died and there wasn't even a reason for the Templars to still go after Ezio, I see absolutely no good reason to assume that he died of anything other than his illness.

How about the dude gripping Ezio's hand and not letting go until he started dying?

Oh and the Templar Bracer. There was a theory about one of Lucrezia Borgia's children although I don't know about that. Remember, Ezio killed many people in his time, someone out there must have had some type of grudge against him.

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 09:41 PM
If it was assassination, then the motive would probably be revenge. Although he did probably still have some contact with the assassins.

It could have just been a remnant of the Borgia, they were broken so they thought they'd atleast kill the man who broke them.

frogger504
03-15-2012, 09:46 PM
If it was assassination, then the motive would probably be revenge. Although he did probably still have some contact with the assassins.

It could have just been a remnant of the Borgia, they were broken so they thought they'd atleast kill the man who broke them.

Yeah, he did remain in contact with Machiavelli, speaking of which, how was he still alive?

Gil_217
03-15-2012, 09:46 PM
This is true. However, there is no reason to read anything more into the situation than what was shown. Ezio was clearly sick and seeing as he didn't bleed when he died and there wasn't even a reason for the Templars to still go after Ezio, I see absolutely no good reason to assume that he died of anything other than his illness.

Yeah, I agree with you, with that post I wasn't trying to imply that the guy killed Ezio, I was just correcting the post of Assassin_M.

Personally, I would like that scene even more if the young man was indeed a Templar, but without him killing Ezio. The Templar found Ezio, probably with a mission to kill him (but this isn't even important), but when he located him, aware that Ezio was one of the greatest Assassin's of all time, and seeing that Ezio was probably going to die sooner than later, just approached him, talked to him (so he could say he was the last man to talk with Ezio Auditore) and out of respect, let him die in a normal and peaceful way, in his hometown, and with his family.

A good way to go.

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 09:48 PM
Yeah, he did remain in contact with Machiavelli, speaking of which, how was he still alive?

Ezio was actually older than machievelli.

frogger504
03-15-2012, 09:51 PM
Ezio was actually older than machievelli.

Wait, really? It always seemed the other way around o.o

Gil_217
03-15-2012, 09:53 PM
Wait, really? It always seemed the other way around o.o

Almost 10 years older.

POP1Fan
03-15-2012, 10:02 PM
Yeah, I agree with you, with that post I wasn't trying to imply that the guy killed Ezio, I was just correcting the post of Assassin_M.

Personally, I would like that scene even more if the young man was indeed a Templar, but without him killing Ezio. The Templar found Ezio, probably with a mission to kill him (but this isn't even important), but when he located him, aware that Ezio was one of the greatest Assassin's of all time, and seeing that Ezio was probably going to die sooner than later, just approached him, talked to him (so he could say he was the last man to talk with Ezio Auditore) and out of respect, let him die in a normal and peaceful way, in his hometown, and with his family.

A good way to go.

[SPOILER] I actually think he was a Templar but he didin't knew who Ezio actually was, so when the guy sat on the bench Ezio saw he was a Templar, panicked and became nervous but after the guy wished him a good day Ezio calmed down and, well he....passed away.

Gil_217
03-15-2012, 10:04 PM
[SPOILER] I actually think he was a Templar but he didin't knew who Ezio actually was, so when the guy sat on the bench Ezio saw he was a Templar, panicked and became nervous but after the guy wished him a good day Ezio calmed down and, well he....passed away.

It would be so much good if he was aware of who Ezio was, just like I said in that post.

By the way, his facial expressions, to me, looked like he totally knew who Ezio was.

LightRey
03-15-2012, 10:06 PM
It would be so much good if he was aware of who Ezio was, just like I said in that post.

By the way, his facial expressions, to me, looked like he totally knew who Ezio was.
yeah, his face did kinda look like:
http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/templates/9220.jpg

Gil_217
03-15-2012, 10:07 PM
yeah, his face did kinda look like:
http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/templates/9220.jpg

lmao.

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 10:08 PM
Wait, really? It always seemed the other way around o.o

I was really surprised when I found out.

frogger504
03-15-2012, 10:52 PM
I was really surprised when I found out.


How? Wasn't he mentor before Ezio was even a Master, before he was inducted even?

Gil_217
03-15-2012, 11:01 PM
How? Wasn't he mentor before Ezio was even a Master, before he was inducted even?

He probably received "special treatment".

itsamea-mario
03-15-2012, 11:02 PM
That's why I was surprised, but he's definitely younger.

Gil_217
03-15-2012, 11:04 PM
That's why I was surprised, but he's definitely younger.

He's basically 10 years younger than Ezio.

Assassin_M
03-15-2012, 11:51 PM
Actually, UbiGabe already has retracted that statement, saying that he did not knew all the details behind the young man and his significance in the scene.

It's also worth to mention that Darby McDevitt talked about him too, I can't remember exactly what he said, but he mentioned that he was a completely new character, and not just some random person with no significance.
Oh yes, I apologize..
I was misinformed, but still no reason to say that Ezio was killed..
Everything points to a natural death..
He was ill, coughing harshly.. probably chest infection...
He was no longer a threat, and his dying looked pretty normal, if it were poison then it would`ve been uglier.. not to mention that a poison blade, as being alluded to by froger, was not sold at the blacksmith.. only Ezio knew of it, and only Leonardo Da vinci could build it and well... he was dead..

GLHS
03-16-2012, 07:15 AM
It's already confirmed in the wiki that Ezio died of a heart attack. He was obviously sick and starting to go for a while anyway.

itsamea-mario
03-16-2012, 08:43 AM
Some poisons can cause heart attacks.

playassassins1
03-16-2012, 09:51 AM
It's already confirmed in the wiki that Ezio died of a heart attack. He was obviously sick and starting to go for a while anyway.

If i'm not mistaken its also confirmed in the Encyclopedia.

GLHS
03-16-2012, 11:00 AM
Probably, I haven't read it so Idk for sure. I just think this poison thing is a little too far. People wanna make a big story about it, so instead of him dying in a simple manner, it's gotta be some big conspiracy b/c there was this mysterious guy there before he died. But nobody knows who this guy is or what his purpose is, so they've gotta come up with all these lavish ideas. Maybe he was a Templar, maybe not. But Ezio died of a heart attack, so it doesn't really matter.

LightRey
03-16-2012, 11:58 AM
If i'm not mistaken its also confirmed in the Encyclopedia.
It's not. Though there's not mention of the man Ezio talks to, suggesting that he had no part in his death.

BeCk41
03-17-2012, 01:56 PM
Everyone knows to side with the Assassins as the Templar's are dishonest and obviously in it for themselves. Did I mention that the Templar's are evil? >:D

De Filosoof
03-17-2012, 06:19 PM
Everyone knows to side with the Assassins as the Templar's are dishonest and obviously in it for themselves. Did I mention that the Templar's are evil? >:D

Yep, they are in it for themselves. They don't care about the middle class people,they wanna make the middle and lower class their ignorant livestock(sheeple), doing boring jobs to keep them rich.
The reason why they promise money and wealth when you join them is actually because they know what they're doing isn't good for most of the people so they need to bribe them with money and luxury.
I don't think they are necessarily evil, they're just money and power junks.

Acrimonious_Nin
03-17-2012, 10:26 PM
I choose the side of the Assassins ...but all this talk about sides make me smell traces of an mmorpg coming in the future :p...I mean if you look at the structure of the games plot and characters and what not you can see 'symptoms' of an mmorpg :D...that would be really cool <3

dchil279
03-17-2012, 10:53 PM
The Templar belief is cynical in nature and the Assassins' is naïve

Acrimonious_Nin
03-17-2012, 11:36 PM
The Templar belief is cynical in nature and the Assassins' is naïve

why naive? they seem pretty stable in there views

Voltige2011
03-17-2012, 11:52 PM
why naive? they seem pretty stable in there views
Their naivety is routed in the fact that they pretty much demand free will. If a Templar is a CEO someone they have no qualms about killing every employee that stands between them. In the Ottoman-Venetian war they lost men on both sides. I'm pretty sure that was a result of free will.
Templars have no moral compass whatsoever. That may just be up into the 16th century though though play ACR MP files. The Templars pretty much get chained in their view every other year. It's like giving a five year old all the nuclear material in the world.
Both sides want the same thing, but when you think about it they both seem like the same kind of organizations.

The Templar belief is cynical in nature and the Assassins' is naïve
Best answer I've heard on this entire struggle.

Acrimonious_Nin
03-18-2012, 03:16 AM
Their naivety is routed in the fact that they pretty much demand free will. If a Templar is a CEO someone they have no qualms about killing every employee that stands between them. In the Ottoman-Venetian war they lost men on both sides. I'm pretty sure that was a result of free will.
Templars have no moral compass whatsoever. That may just be up into the 16th century though though play ACR MP files. The Templars pretty much get chained in their view every other year. It's like giving a five year old all the nuclear material in the world.
Both sides want the same thing, but when you think about it they both seem like the same kind of organizations.

Best answer I've heard on this entire struggle.

Templar lingo
Assassin lingo
wtf ?
Templar manipulation
Templar Logic
Opinion

I am sorry, but that did not anwser my question. Yes, the templars and Assassins do have parallel intentions for the world of humankind, but there actions differ. Assassins clearly sound irational, but the logic that they use to back up there beliefs, as they have been, are quite sound. Just like what ezio said in the end of revelations when he was explaining the creed to sofia. The templars, as for the MP side, are not so sound, as they give the recruite a bunch of information to satify his curiousity, but do nothing as to reveal there true motives....besides the templars used test subjects in secret, away from public eyes, to help in there goal of control. Everything that they show about there 'help' to society is just the facade of ABSTERGO not the true motives of the Templars.(Just for a side note) s15 and s16 were dumped in rivers where they would be found by news reporters and most likely how ALL of the subjects were treated or 'disposed' of. By taking the observations of what ezio says to sofia, "To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic." sounds very much like an order that considers the ethics and practices' of humanity while the templars just do as they please or as what they subjectively see as ''right''...if anything the assassins have more of a stable head than the templars. so I do not see how the templars are 'cynical' ( I don't know if you mean like cynic philosophy or mad man cynic ) and the assassins are clearly wise to take these considerations as they strive to protect humanity from people who will impose a haphazard philosophy of living because they do not like the way you live.

P.S Assassins do not demand freedom, they protect the 'freedoms' that mankind can put into practice, but do not promote crazy chaos, peace through knowledge and understanding not blind faith or 'mind control' through an apple. Assassins believe that humanity can come to a compromise with each other if they were not so pumeled down by society's vices and rules that usually end up corrupt and tyrranical. Templars are not 'Cynical' as for the philisophical term. they are facsist by nature.

btw the templars are after a dream of eutopia or a perfect world when perfection is just the individuals subjective expectation of an event or to put it simply "This is how I think it SHOULD be". Therefore to say that they want a perfect world is to ask, under who's expectations....in this case some crazy templars set out for a dream world of eutopia....

Voltige2011
03-18-2012, 03:55 AM
Templar lingo
Assassin lingo
wtf ?
Templar manipulation
Templar Logic
Opinion

I am sorry, but that did not anwser my question. Yes, the templars and Assassins do have parallel intentions for the world of man, but there actions differ. Assassins clearly sound irational, but the logic that they use to back up there beliefs, as they have been, are quite sound. Just like what ezio said in the end of revelations when he was explaining the creed to sofia. The templars, as for the MP side, are not so sound, as they give the recruite a bunch of information to satify his curiousity, but do nothing as to reveal there true motives what are their true motives?....besides the templars used test subjects in secret, away from public eyes, to help in there goal of control How does that make sense?. Everything that they show about there 'help' to society is just the facade of ABSTERGO not the true motives of the Templars.(Just for a side note) s15 and s16 were dumped in rivers where they would be found by news reporters and most likely how ALL of the subjects were treated or 'disposed' of. What does that have to do with anything? By taking the observations of what ezio says to sofia, "To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic." sounds very much like an order that considers the ethics Define ethics. and practices' of humanity while the templars just do as they please or as what they subjectively see as ''right''. Seems like a giant jump you made there, please explain...if anything the assassins have more of a stable head than the Templars. Using big words does not make one stable, it makes them look smart to people who have no idea what is being said. Weren't the Assassins the group who became separated across the world with almost no connection whatsoever. Pretty much everybody had a different view on something. so I do not see how the templars are 'cynical' ( I don't know if you mean like cynic philosophy or mad man cynic ) and the assassins are clearly wise to take these considerations as they strive to protect humanity from people who will impose a haphazard philosophy of living because they do not like the way you live.
You just color coded my post. Since you color coded it you should have seen that the first sentence pretty much seems to sum it up pretty well despite the fact I basically rushed through it.
More importantly did you color everything with no understanding of anything at all. The entire paragraph looks like you just played Word-Find.

Their naivety is routed in the fact that they pretty much demand free will. If a Templar is a CEO someone they have no qualms about killing every employee that stands between them. In the Ottoman-Venetian war they lost men on both sides. I'm pretty sure that was a result of free will.
Templars have no moral compass whatsoever. That may just be up into the 16th century though though play ACR MP files. The Templars pretty much get chained in their view every other year. It's like giving a five year old all the nuclear material in the world.
Both sides want the same thing, but when you think about it they both seem like the same kind of organizations.

Best answer I've heard on this entire struggle.

The first few sentences were colored Templar and Assassin lingo simply because the describe the other faction in a negative light. The next sentence made me laugh due to the fact that the next one goes in depth. In the one you labeled "Templar logic", if you exchange the words "get chained" for "change" that sentence makes much more sense.
I question how you even got a sensible answer from it. "Templar manipulation" I just find laughable. The one you called opinion is hilarious since I never actually called it a fact.

Then the following post goes on to give examples of you ideas of "Templars hate freedom, they must be evil" and "Assassin's like freedom, Assassin's are good." You seem quick to judge something as "Templar" or "Assassin", ignore everything else, and give examples of things that you've seen only through the lens of the Assassin Brotherhood.
Basically every arguement I make is either black or white through your eyes. Please at least take time to get a sense of gray before you respond.

Acrimonious_Nin
03-18-2012, 04:22 AM
You just color coded my post. Since you color coded it you should have seen that the first sentence pretty much seems to sum it up pretty well despite the fact I basically rushed through it.
More importantly did you color everything with no understanding of anything at all. The entire paragraph looks like you just played Word-Find.

Their naivety is routed in the fact that they pretty much demand free will. If a Templar is a CEO someone they have no qualms about killing every employee that stands between them. In the Ottoman-Venetian war they lost men on both sides. I'm pretty sure that was a result of free will.
Templars have no moral compass whatsoever. That may just be up into the 16th century though though play ACR MP files. The Templars pretty much get chained in their view every other year. It's like giving a five year old all the nuclear material in the world.
Both sides want the same thing, but when you think about it they both seem like the same kind of organizations.

Best answer I've heard on this entire struggle.

The first few sentences were colored Templar and Assassin lingo simply because the describe the other faction in a negative light. The next sentence made me laugh due to the fact that the next one goes in depth. In the one you labeled "Templar logic", if you exchange the words "get chained" for "change" that sentence makes much more sense.
I question how you even got a sensible answer from it. "Templar manipulation" I just find laughable. The one you called opinion is hilarious since I never actually called it a fact.

Then the following post goes on to give examples of you ideas of "Templars hate freedom, they must be evil" and "Assassin's like freedom, Assassin's are good." You seem quick to judge something as "Templar" or "Assassin", ignore everything else, and give examples of things that you've seen only through the lens of the Assassin Brotherhood.
Basically every arguement I make is either black or white through your eyes. Please at least take time to get a sense of gray before you respond.

I am glad you were amused in the places that were meant for more humor than serious judgement. And to add on to your statement of how I was able to get anything out of it is true. I did not. The only thing that made sense was the first 3 sentences (up untill the blue color ;) ) and where you say ''what does it have to do with anythig'' I would expect that you would have read the part that said (Just as a SIDE NOTE) would mean something, but just like you, my ''slang'' is only understood by me alone and yours only by you. The ''grey'' part thats bold, Try not sticking words that are non existent and claim it to be a quote of the original post I put up. Templars do believe in freedom...they practice it by imposing their will on others. Imposing your will on others = bad. Assassins do believe in ORDER by killing people who they see as corrupt individuals who impose themselves on others. >_> I do not see why you wish for me to see the ''grey'' in your post when you are the one that can not see the ''grey'' in mine. Your argument is neither black or white or grey in my eyes, they would most likely be red if anything, but as for the orange part..c'mon really? The templars pretty much --changed-- in their view every other year. It's like giving a five year old all the nuclear material in the world. That is by far the worst logic I have ever read. How do you compare templars with kids wielding nukes? anyways...I hope that is a fair display of grey for you, from me..now can your ideas and message be made clear? with the consideration that grammar could help people like me understand this grey stuff you speak of ?

P.S I never said you claimed the light blue part a fact...I just pointed that out for you...you just seemed so in a hurry to acknowledge a subjective 'black & white' conclusion, that your response was rather glib towards the sense behind the conflicting actions of the assassins and templars...

Acrimonious_Nin
03-18-2012, 04:34 AM
I am sorry, but that did not anwser my question. Yes, the templars and Assassins do have parallel intentions for the world of man, but there actions differ. Assassins clearly sound irational, but the logic that they use to back up there beliefs, as they have been, are quite sound. Just like what ezio said in the end of revelations when he was explaining the creed to sofia. The templars, as for the MP side, are not so sound, as they give the recruite a bunch of information to satify his curiousity, but do nothing as to reveal there true motives what are their true motives?....besides the templars used test subjects in secret, away from public eyes, to help in there goal of control How does that make sense?. Everything that they show about there 'help' to society is just the facade of ABSTERGO not the true motives of the Templars.(Just for a side note) s15 and s16 were dumped in rivers where they would be found by news reporters and most likely how ALL of the subjects were treated or 'disposed' of. What does that have to do with anything? By taking the observations of what ezio says to sofia, "To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic." sounds very much like an order that considers the ethics Define ethics. and practices' of humanity while the templars just do as they please or as what they subjectively see as ''right''. Seems like a giant jump you made there, please explain...if anything the assassins have more of a stable head than the Templars. Using big words does not make one stable, it makes them look smart to people who have no idea what is being said. Weren't the Assassins the group who became separated across the world with almost no connection whatsoever. Pretty much everybody had a different view on something. so I do not see how the templars are 'cynical' ( I don't know if you mean like cynic philosophy or mad man cynic ) and the assassins are clearly wise to take these considerations as they strive to protect humanity from people who will impose a haphazard philosophy of living because they do not like the way you live.

their true motives
it makes sense by touching on there dark secrets that make them 'evil'. evil = inhumane practice i.e using people then throwing them away after you kill them and got what you wanted
it has nothing to do with anything hence the (Just for a side note) statement :p
Ethics = morality, our perception of 'right' and 'wrong' as it is dictated by the majority ;D
need no explanation
You are right, but they use 'big words' in the proper context that helps deliver the message of their philosophy. Smart people will understand what they mean rather than being stuck scratching their heads saying '' me no likey big words, big words make head pain ..aaaaahhhh!!! ''' and they never lost their connection they are bound by a creed dictated by a mentor for every cell faction through out the globe.....thought you knew this...

btw..where were the 'big' words... >_>

frogger504
03-18-2012, 07:08 AM
why naive? they seem pretty stable in there views

Actually, both Mentor Assassins we've played as have questioned their own customs and beliefs [on the Order] quite often.

Acrimonious_Nin
03-18-2012, 01:30 PM
Actually, both Mentor Assassins we've played as have questioned their own customs and beliefs [on the Order] quite often.

Yes you are right they(Altair, and Desmond) have questioned there order, but to be skeptical even about your own beliefs is necessary to create a better understanding of where you stand. Look at the Templars, they seem fixed on one idea alone...eutopia and a better world. The Assassins are constently working to make a better system that incorporates the complexity that is human society. To be more accurate can you give me a link where ezio questions the order. I can not seem to find any of his dialogues that question the creed, if anything he says, '' I have lived my life the best I could, not knowing its purpose, but drawn forward like a moth to a distant moon...'' if anything he implies that without question he pushed forward as an assassins only searching for knowledge and truth.

De Filosoof
03-18-2012, 02:03 PM
Yes you are right they(Altair, and Desmond) have questioned there order, but to be skeptical even about your own beliefs is necessary to create a better understanding of where you stand. Look at the Templars, they seem fixed on one idea alone...eutopia and a better world. The Assassins are constently working to make a better system that incorporates the complexity that is human society. To be more accurate can you give me a link where ezio questions the order. I can not seem to find any of his dialogues that question the creed, if anything he says, '' I have lived my life the best I could, not knowing its purpose, but drawn forward like a moth to a distant moon...'' if anything he implies that without question he pushed forward as an assassins only searching for knowledge and truth.

This.

The assassins naive? Really? pfffffff. You guys really don't get the point. It's not an opinion, you just don't get the point.
Do you guys even know what the definition of naive is?

Here i will put it up for ya:

naïveadj naïve, naive [naiˈiːv]1 simple and straightforward in one's way of thinking, speaking etc.
2 ignorantly simple.

adv naˈively

A little bit like some people here.

Acrimonious_Nin
03-18-2012, 03:48 PM
Assassins +1 Templars 0

I have to say we the assassins have won....rejoice :D

oliacr
03-18-2012, 07:20 PM
only assassins! Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!

Black_Widow9
03-18-2012, 07:22 PM
Assassin, because I want to keep free will no matter what. If there has to be war, so be it.

I'm an Autobot, not a Decepticon.
This is exactly the reason I would be an Assassin as well. Roll out. :p

frogger504
03-18-2012, 07:30 PM
na·ive/nīˈēv/
Adjective:
(of a person or action) Showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment: "the rather naive young man had been totally misled".
(of a person) Natural and unaffected; innocent: "Andy had a sweet, naive look when he smiled".

I got this definition.

Yes, they were naive. Also, Ezio was as well.


Yes you are right they(Altair, and Desmond) have questioned there order, but to be skeptical even about your own beliefs is necessary to create a better understanding of where you stand. Look at the Templars, they seem fixed on one idea alone...eutopia and a better world. The Assassins are constently working to make a better system that incorporates the complexity that is human society. To be more accurate can you give me a link where ezio questions the order. I can not seem to find any of his dialogues that question the creed, if anything he says, '' I have lived my life the best I could, not knowing its purpose, but drawn forward like a moth to a distant moon...'' if anything he implies that without question he pushed forward as an assassins only searching for knowledge and truth.

Yes, that makes them Naive...

LightRey
03-18-2012, 07:56 PM
na·ive/nīˈēv/
Adjective:
(of a person or action) Showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment: "the rather naive young man had been totally misled".
(of a person) Natural and unaffected; innocent: "Andy had a sweet, naive look when he smiled".

I got this definition.

Yes, they were naive. Also, Ezio was as well.



Yes, that makes them Naive...
It only makes them naive if they are wrong. You assume that their view of the world is one that does not lead to a better one and therefore you assume that they are naive. However, the world has yet to show whether they are wrong or not.

I'd say the Templars are naive. They are naive to think that a single ideology, their ideology, is the only correct one and is capable of serving humanity to a greater extent than (practically) all alternatives, which is a preposterous presumption. If all the world followed the same ideology, we would be wiped out in no time. Diversity is what makes species survive in nature.

De Filosoof
03-18-2012, 09:46 PM
It only makes them naive if they are wrong. You assume that their view of the world is one that does not lead to a better one and therefore you assume that they are naive. However, the world has yet to show whether they are wrong or not.

I'd say the Templars are naive. They are naive to think that a single ideology, their ideology, is the only correct one and is capable of serving humanity to a greater extent than (practically) all alternatives, which is a preposterous presumption. If all the world followed the same ideology, we would be wiped out in no time. Diversity is what makes species survive in nature.

I totally agree with this.

frogger504
03-18-2012, 09:50 PM
It only makes them naive if they are wrong. You assume that their view of the world is one that does not lead to a better one and therefore you assume that they are naive. However, the world has yet to show whether they are wrong or not.

I'd say the Templars are naive. They are naive to think that a single ideology, their ideology, is the only correct one and is capable of serving humanity to a greater extent than (practically) all alternatives, which is a preposterous presumption. If all the world followed the same ideology, we would be wiped out in no time. Diversity is what makes species survive in nature.

I never said it was a bad thing, but they are naive, both factions.

Acrimonious_Nin
03-18-2012, 11:07 PM
na·ive/nīˈēv/
Adjective:
(of a person or action) Showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment: "the rather naive young Templar had been totally misled".

Assassins are not naive, through experience and the wisdom they obtain from it, by challenging their own views, like altair, allows them to make better judgment of the situation at hand...so they are the exact oppisite. The templars are actually more fascist in there practices. Templars are naive in the sense to view the world so narrowly that they can force change with this single pointed view of a '' eutopia''.

naïveadj naïve, naive [naiˈiːv]1 simple and straightforward in one's way of thinking, speaking etc.
2 ignorantly simple.
(of an ideology or dream) It was naive of the Templars to dream of a eutopic society.


def. #2 ''eutopia'' is ignorantly simple >_> in the fact that you can not have perfect society since perfection is the expectations of the individual and you can not meet the expectations of every individual on this planet because "The individual intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention." - adam smith

so the templars seek the apple of eden to force everyone to be like minded...by imposing their views on others that sounds authoritarian to me..

fas·cism


Noun:



An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

LightRey
03-18-2012, 11:39 PM
I never said it was a bad thing, but they are naive, both factions.
That doesn't really change my point.

HeedfulMass4856
10-13-2013, 11:18 PM
I know that I am reviving a year-old thread, but I think this is the best "Assassins vs Templars" thread, so I'll revive it anyway :)

This is my honest view:

If I was living in a historical time without all of this technology, I would be an Assassin, but if there was an "Assassins vs Templar" war today, I'd be a Templar.

I'll go back and read some of the more knowledgeable user's posts though; maybe I'll be converted...

Stealth Gamer92
10-14-2013, 12:47 AM
Assassin. Conflict and especialy war is usualy the driveing force behind humanities greatest inventions. Not just gun's. I mean war is awesome it gave us M&M's!

HiddenKiller612
10-14-2013, 12:52 AM
I might have been with the templars had haytham kept running things, but the present templars... No... So I guess it's a situational kind of thing.

Hans684
10-14-2013, 04:46 PM
Depends on the situation on the era, persons leading theire creed's and main goal of the orders in the era. Not gonna go in to details.

AC - Assassins and Templars.

AC2 - Assassins.

ACB - Assassins.

ACR - Templars.

AC3 - Templars.

AC4BF - Templars.

ACR - Templars.

ACU - Assassins and Templars.

Modern Day: Assassins.

All of world history: TWCB.

Shahkulu101
10-14-2013, 05:01 PM
AC - Assassin

AC2 - Assassino

ACB - neither - both were crap.

ACR - Shahkulu (Templars)

AC3 - Templars, definitely not Connor or Achilles.

Bastiaen
10-14-2013, 07:02 PM
I think "assure humans' free will" is better than "give", we already have free will, the assassins won't give us more than we already have if they achieve their goal.....

Nope. The Assassins gave free will be freeing mankind from the First Civilization.

ACHILLES4713
10-15-2013, 02:48 AM
I would side with the Assassins:

I've never understood why people make the argument that the Assassins would be a bad choice because they are idealists. Really? How is being an idealist a bad thing to be? Why do you think the Greeks and many other cultures developed stories about fantastic heroes? They did this in order to try and instill qualities and virtues in younger generations that would help the group as a whole survive. Having ideals is what allows a family/tribe/village/city/nation and by extension the world to become a better place. As an American, I realize that our secession from England was motivated by money (since the revolution was led by well-to-do land owners); but, there was an effort to build a means of governance predicated by noble ideals. Sadly, it hasn't worked very well, thanks to the influence of money since our founding and the rise of people in my government who only adhere to realist thought and not a mix of both realism and liberalism (but that's a topic for a different conversation). But to reiterate, just because we may not always succeed in reaching an ideal, doesn't mean we should stop striving for it.

I also see the value in the Templar's way of thinking:

The Templar's worldview (as portrayed by the Assassin's Creed franchise) is very similar to the realist political philosophy. In a nutshell, realism states that people are bad and you should trust no one, prepare for war to preserve peace, etc. Liberalism states that people are good, we can avoid war through negotiation, etc. I can agree with the Templar philosophy to the extent that there does need to be order in society, but if that order comes by the means of subjugation (TOKW), then I can't get behind that.
When I was playing Fallout: New Vegas, I found myself actually agreeing with a of what Ceaser was saying except for the whole slavery and needless slaughter thing. In a scenario where you are faced with a wasteland with little resources, having a strong, homogenous culture wouldn't be such a bad thing. But since I'm assuming we're all talking about the pros and cons of Assassins vs Templars in a modern society, you need to have a balance. A balance where order is assured by the rule of law, but freedom for the individuals in a society to live their life as they see fit. In this way, political thought/technological innovation/cultural and religious tolerance/philosophy can be debated, grow, and change in order to make humanity as a whole a more enlightened species.

Assassin_M
10-15-2013, 02:50 AM
I know that I am reviving a year-old thread, but I think this is the best "Assassins vs Templars" thread, so I'll revive it anyway :)

This isnt the best Assassins vs Templars thread...the thread where Sixkeys and I had that epic argument is better

Jexx21
10-15-2013, 02:54 AM
i choose myself and be gandhi

ozziepanda
03-16-2014, 09:07 AM
Assassin, I like parkour :p If humanity really wishes to live in peace (boring btw) it's humanity that should make the first step towards it, not a strict group of men that no one knows with personal interests. For that we already have the government.

There was once a thread just like this and templars didn't lose for much actually. There're a lot of templars in an assassin's creed forum lol

"I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom?" Connor Kenway

avk111
03-16-2014, 09:26 AM
Ok here is an interesting question for people who support freedom of choice and idea.

Are we really free ? or freedom is just an illusion ? all our ideas and thoughts are the result of our environment and stimuli , thus if society is in control of information are we in the deep rooted core free ? or are we just entitled to our "preceived opinion" ?

Dome500
03-16-2014, 03:10 PM
Ok here is an interesting question for people who support freedom of choice and idea.

Are we really free ? or freedom is just an illusion ? all our ideas and thoughts are the result of our environment and stimuli , thus if society is in control of information are we in the deep rooted core free ? or are we just entitled to our "preceived opinion" ?

Sometimes the illusion of freedom is enough to make a person happy.

Anyway, I think freedom is relatively seen here, but what the Assassins are fighting for is "as much freedom as a person in an established society can get". Which means, the freedom to behave the way you want as long as it fits the moral standards of your time. Of course no one is ever completely free. Otherwise evolution of technology would go much slower, or even not at all. Think about it. No environmental influence means no learning of the knowledge humanity has, means all your experiences would come from the things that happen to you personally. Which in the end means every human starts from 0. No rules, no morals, no knowledge.

Theoretically that level of freedom is almost impossible given the number of individuals on the planet and the influence of society on even the loneliest hermit.

So "are we really free?" Yes.
"what do the Assassins strive for?" As much freedom as is humanly possible while growing up in a society that is still keeping a basic level of order.

avk111
03-16-2014, 04:04 PM
Thus we are free and not free at the same time. I know its a very rhetorical question to ask that question that has mesmerized humans for a long tiime, "are we free" ?

But think about it this way society does affect the information stimuli we have thus affect our thoughts and eventually affects our decision making process.

We are conscious to a certain degree of this information , but what about the people who are not conscious of this equation ? do we treat them equally ?

I personally think it all comes down to the individual sense of belief about the world. c

For the assassins, they fight for the sole survival of free will , the chance to choose what makes us us in life. Templars simply enforce what is good for us either we like it or not.

Here is a simple example:

Eating junk food can be harmfull , thus the governor rules out that society is banished from eating junk food and only vegetarian food is allowed in this society , we can see here that there is wisdom in that rule but doesnt apply to everyone ?

I-Like-Pie45
03-16-2014, 04:20 PM
Neither

Who are the Patriots?

Kirokill
03-16-2014, 05:37 PM
Both fight for same reason, in different view, with no-good ways.
But since people always get convinced with violence and/or blackmailing. It seems the only way.
But neither I choose.

pirate1802
03-16-2014, 05:55 PM
I choose Erudito.

Templar_Az
03-16-2014, 06:33 PM
I choose FIrst Civilisation.

RinoTheBouncer
03-16-2014, 06:39 PM
I think there’s no such thing as total freedom with total peace. There’s also no such thing as a happy life when one is controlled by one mastermind.

So I guess both have their pros and cons. I think it’s good to be free, no matter what. It’s also a fact that humans, when given freedom, will do anything that comes to their minds whether it’s right or wrong and that will eventually affect someone else’s freedom, so in that case not everyone is free as long as somebody’s freedom is being paid for by someone else’s confinement.

The Assassins are morally correct, and the Templars are realistically correct. Morally, people should choose what they want and not be made to do something they don’t want to just because somebody else thinks it’s right. Realistically, a lot of people will refrain from doing certain things and insist on doing others and this will negatively impact their lives and others’, that’s when the higher power is needed to set things right.

Our laws today have nothing to do with freedom. As long as we need a leader or a governor or a king or a power to tell us what’s right and what’s wrong, what to do and what not to do, what’s morally correct and what’s not, then we’re not free. If we can’t guarantee that we’ll behave right, that we don't hurt, kill, steal, abuse, insult others, nor do anything wrong whether there will be consequences or not, then we are not free and we’re less than the “cool human race” that we think we are. Cause after all, a lot of us need a “user” to control them, like a computer.

So the next question is, are morals important? are they a part of us or we were just brought up to believe that this is right and that is wrong? we have social norms, morals, religious-based laws..etc. which one of them is right? if we’re created by a God who gave us rules, then those rules must be followed because’ they’re made by God, the user of the computer we call “World".

However, if we’re just an accident or a coincidence on this planet, then whatever religions say does not matter because they’re man-made. For example, we make laws to protect animal rights from hunting, skinning...etc. but how guilty would an animal feel or what consequence would it face had it attacked a human being? nothing. One second we say that we’re a highly evolved race, above others, not just animals, yet we need a ruler to set our lives right, if we were as we claim, we’d be able to rule our lives ourselves and maintain a peaceful life without the need for a higher power. Later, we say that we’re no different from animals, it’s just that we can speak, and they don’t , at least not the way we do or that’s as far as we know now. However, we make everything that animals do unacceptable if we do it ourselves. Such as when an animal rapes, kills (animals or human beings), steals somebody’s else food or takes control of their land/home.

So as long as we have these contradictions in our lives, we can never decided whether morals should or shouldn’t be cared about and whether it matters if we’re free or controlled as long as we do the right thing or whether being free is a must and that whatever happens because of that is just irrelevant because we’re born to be free.

Unless both Assassins and Templars work together and modify their code to take the best of both sides, there will never be a good life under the reign of one of them, only.


I choose FIrst Civilisation.
We’re on the same team, then!

blazefp
03-17-2014, 12:02 AM
"I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom?" Connor Kenway

You sir woke up a long gone thread.

avk111
03-17-2014, 04:25 PM
Guys I have a question which is relevant to topic,

Was state communism related to the assassins or templars ? because according to the wiki it was the assassins that started the communist ideology however it really contradicts their creed

I-Like-Pie45
03-17-2014, 04:37 PM
A classless, moneyless, and stateless society where through common ownership all are essentially equal does not clash that much with Assassin beliefs as say other ideologies like capitalism and fascism.

However, what people chose to do with Communist ideology like the state communism of the USSR or the PRC was what ultimately contradicted the Creed and more Templarish.

Dome500
03-17-2014, 06:37 PM
A classless, moneyless, and stateless society where through common ownership all are essentially equal does not clash that much with Assassin beliefs as say other ideologies like capitalism and fascism.

However, what people chose to do with Communist ideology like the state communism of the USSR or the PRC was what ultimately contradicted the Creed and more Templarish.

This.

Marx's original idea was actually not that bad.
The problem is the concept has weaknesses that can be used for the advantage of a chosen few, normally a leader of the communistic party or can be misinterpreted.
That way the chance is high that a system is established that does - on paper -fulfill the general parameters of Marx's idea but is not what he intended.

Marxism does not contradict the Creed, though every form of communism we had so far in history does.

phoenix-force411
03-17-2014, 11:24 PM
It's a tough decision. This is all based on morality and where you stand.

subject90
03-18-2014, 06:57 PM
i think the templars have the right idea,
imagine a world unified under one cause, no wars or petty squabbling over who's god is right, or who's oil it is , the world on a level playing field financially leading to the end of poverty and race abolished by encouraged mix breeding to reach the ultimate race of humans. if we all pulled together in the same direction, who knows what the human race is capable of!

BUT

if history teaches us anything it is that people in power tend to abuse it, greed consumes them and it is never enough. for this utopian concept to be achieved the ones in power must be kept humble and fair. this is where the assassins have a purpose, the Assassins Purpose is to keep the templars at bay and rid the world of cruel rulers who make the lives of everyone else worse than the potentially could be for their own personal gain.

so i think i would like to see the templar gaol reached , but i think the assassins are necessary to keep the evil at bay. if templars are good people they should not be killed just for being templars. not all templars are evil oppressors but all evil oppressors are templars .

basically, the world should be ruled by templars, but the templars should be regulated ethically by assassins. and all should be appointed power democratically by the people they rule

but then i suppose ..... who controls the assassins ?

gielie_vichte
07-15-2014, 06:27 AM
I would say Templar;
Although some abused their power for personal gain, I find that the Assassins go to far themselves on several occasions, as in AC2, De Medici uses Ezio to take down some of his personal enemies without any solid proof. And as many fear that the Templars, when becoming to powerfull, would abuse their power, the Assassins are a bit of an unguided missile themselves. They murder anyone who stands before them, so what would that be if the Assassins reach supremacy? Lots of killing and excecutions...
Altaïr was heading that way, but then changed. Ezio was then a different one, giving lots to the people and not really going for personnal gain (altough he was De Medici's playball). Connor had the hart in the right place, maybe a bit naïve. Edward was in it for the money until he had a change of heart. Those are indivduals who more or less follow the creed and stay within the lines. But if you put an entire order with chapters and leaders all over the world, things would change and the order would turn corrupt.
As for the Templars, this sadly allready happened, and I blame the blind recruitement of everyone who could be usefull. If there were more Haythams in the order, it would be different.
So, what I actually want to say is, between the Templars and the Assassins, giving them to much power will corrupt them. So than I 'd rather choose the ones who want stability trough control. Not the group who trains deadly assassins and eventually would go into some kind of civil war (wich would happen, giving them to much power).

Sekuiya.
07-15-2014, 07:03 AM
Rise from the grave old topic, we need you to be reborn! ... not.
God, this topic has two years, a new one should probably be started but more with the title "Who should Initiates team up with?" :P

titan3239
07-15-2014, 08:13 AM
I think both the Assassins and the Templars need each other because without the other the world would be destroyed one way or another. If the Assassin's had their way with everybody following their own path and doing with they think is the best for them and eventually they would destroy each other, because sometimes there needs to be a leader for everyone to follow and there needs to be someone to say what the best thing is for each person. If the Assassin's had their way there would very little order and structure in the world which could create chaos. In other words it would be a laissez-faire world. The best example of this is Ezio's speech after he kills Savonarola in AC2 if you have the DLC.
But if the Templars had their way then the entire world would be bleak and colorless. The world and the people couldn't evolve and they would be no new art, literature or imagination. Instead everybody would have their role in life and they would do it because it is the best thing for them. It could be effective, but it would be a cruel world.
In IMO, this is what makes the conflict never ending. There will always be people that will agree with one the ideal or the other and this is what makes the balanced. There is enough order and structure so that the world doesnt go into chaos, but not too much order and structure so that the world is still vibrant and expanding.
At least this is how I see the Assassin Templar conflict, but I'm probably wrong.
So I would probably be a Templar.

StealthTallyFox
07-15-2014, 09:34 AM
Templars
-heavy armor
-stupid(for the footsoldiers)
-too much money(I hate to have a lot of money)

Assassins
-Killing people for no real reason
-the hoods....
-the robes....
-the hidden blades(nerdgaspm)

I'll pick Assassins

Legendz54
07-15-2014, 10:24 AM
Templars because money $$$$

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-15-2014, 03:15 PM
Templars because money $$$$

Who are you, Hickey?? lol

Legendz54
07-16-2014, 10:34 AM
Who are you, Hickey?? lol

THE COLD COLD GROUUUUUUND, (smashes beer mug on the floor)

Assassin_M
07-16-2014, 10:41 AM
-too much money(I hate to have a lot of money)

Stop lying..

Namikaze_17
07-16-2014, 01:17 PM
Neither......
For I am an Instrument of HER first Will!
May Juno lead us into the GRAY....

But seriously, I would have to say both, but I lean more towards the Templars as their Goals and philosophy are actually realistic and obtainable. However, both are needed for things to truly work in the world.
"You kill men and women strong in their convictions, hoping that their lives will save many. A minor EVIL for the greater GOOD?
We are the SAME."

"No, We are NOTHING alike."

Sekuiya.
07-17-2014, 04:01 AM
Templars. I would have to join with the Templars. Assassins have an ideal too much utopian, too much unreachable and limited at the same time.
BUT... in my opinion, the current Templars don't reflect the true ideals of the Templars. The right person is needed to lead the Templars in the right direction.

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 04:03 AM
None because I dont want to live life fearing for the safety of me and the ones I love.

But if I HAD to pick one, then Templars. Less violent, usually allied with the government, and plenty of manies.

Ureh
07-17-2014, 04:07 AM
I would support the Assassins. Not sure how much help I can be though. :p

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 04:09 AM
interesting to see how many people in this thread would end up killing me if we were all in the AC universe, lol.

At least I get a cool speech when I die.

Jexx21
07-17-2014, 04:26 AM
the non-violent one

so a third party

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 04:27 AM
there's non-violent assassins and templars according to darby :p

Jexx21
07-17-2014, 04:32 AM
but they still support violence by being part of the orders they're a part of

Unless their goals include reforming the orders to be non-violent, it doesn't matter, they're still supporting violence indirectly and knowingly, which is just as bad, if not worse (unless they aren't physically able), than supporting it directly

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 04:39 AM
Templars can act individually. They dont have a policy or group they have to conform with. So they arent neccessarily condoning violence by adopting the Templar name.

Assassins abide by a brotherhood. But theres a bunch of brotherhoods. Depending on the brotherhood, an assassin may or may not be condoning violence.

Ureh
07-17-2014, 04:40 AM
interesting to see how many people in this thread would end up killing me if we were all in the AC universe, lol.

At least I get a cool speech when I die.

Who knows!? You might meet an Assassin who doesn't want to take your life and end up marrying that person instead (like Altair and Maria, although he did cause her death in his anger).

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 04:43 AM
...................Nah

I'd probably just order for the assassin to be killed. I mean I'm not gonna have romantic interest with someone who had my name on a list of names to cross off.

Fatal-Feit
07-17-2014, 04:51 AM
...................Nah

I'd probably just order for the assassin to be killed. I mean I'm not gonna have romantic interest with someone who had my name on a list of names to cross off.

Dexter Season 7, anyone? Okay, nvm...

Jexx21
07-17-2014, 04:54 AM
Templars can act individually. They dont have a policy or group they have to conform with. So they arent neccessarily condoning violence by adopting the Templar name.

Assassins abide by a brotherhood. But theres a bunch of brotherhoods. Depending on the brotherhood, an assassin may or may not be condoning violence.

These are groups we're talking about here, not ideologies or religions. If someone is part of a group that uses violence, they are indirectly supporting the violence even if they aren't using violence. Templars abide by a "Brotherhood" as much as the Assassins, except they call it an Order.

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 04:58 AM
Did you miss Haytham's speech? They require no Creed or Order.

And Darby said in Loomer's podcast that the Assassin/Templar philosophies are like religions. You should listen to the podcast. It's like 2-3 hours of darby goodness. :rolleyes:

swoop12345
07-17-2014, 04:59 AM
Templar. After all, the Templars are pretty good people. They rarely kill unless attacked, they stand for peace and order and justice (at the cost of liberty), and they strive only to better the world.

I'd definitely be Templar. And then when a beautiful Assassin lady comes to murder me in my sleep we'll look deep into each other's eyes and when I open my mouth to speak, she'll thrust her blade into my throat saying, "Shh...don't speak."

I'll make helpless guttural noises as we share this universal moment of cross-cult love. Eventually, I'll die from blood loss and she'll sob for hours yelling things among the lines of "No!" and "WHY?"

As my life flashes past my eyes in my dying moments, I'll remember I'm a Templar, and sensually stab her esophagus.



At least, that's what would've happened if Maria was the Assassin and Altair was the Templar...damn someone's got to write a fanfic about this.

travilanche
07-17-2014, 05:10 AM
Assassin for sure. I would rather die than live under a totalitarian regime.

Jexx21
07-17-2014, 05:21 AM
Did you miss Haytham's speech? They require no Creed or Order.

And Darby said in Loomer's podcast that the Assassin/Templar philosophies are like religions. You should listen to the podcast. It's like 2-3 hours of darby goodness. :rolleyes:

Their philosophies, not necessarily their groups. And no, the Templars are an order, they are a group, they have a hierarchy, just like the Assassins. You can choose to act independently of them, yes, but that doesn't mean that you aren't indirectly supporting what they're doing.

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 05:24 AM
Not all templars necessarily support each other, indirectly or not. They simply share a common goal.

Namikaze_17
07-17-2014, 05:25 AM
Assassin for sure. I would rather die than live under a totalitarian regime.

(Sigh) The Templars aren't looking to dictate people lives like individuals including Hitler, Stalin, etc. We look for prosperity, peace, and things of that nature like the Assassin's. The ONLY DIFFERENCE is that we look to Control ONLY to make Mankind see their error, and guide them to a better future. They are free to do their regular errands as such, but all we do is apply tighter rules and regulations to only protect them, not keep them restricted.

Besides, you'd die for an organization that's goals and philosophy can be rather unattainable or restricting at best?

Jexx21
07-17-2014, 05:27 AM
Hitler was a Templar in the AC Universe though.

Namikaze_17
07-17-2014, 05:37 AM
Hitler was a Templar in the AC Universe though.

Not really.....he was a tool at best.

The Templars only used him to install fear into people so that when the Chaos of WWII started, they would come in and instantly take control.

Calvarok
07-17-2014, 05:40 AM
In my opinion, Templars can more easily effect change. That's not to say that the easiest way to change things is the best way, or even the right way. In fact, in my opinion more often than not, the hardest path is the right one.

The Assassin's methods and goals allow for chaos to exist, for wars to happen, for people to argue and disagree and hate and love and come together and fall apart. I don't wholeheartedly support all of their methods, but I think that they have the right idea about what their role should be: not to guide the world, but to allow it to find its own way. To allow the people to have a voice.

I would become an Assassin, but I would advocate a serious change in the way we did things. To be ghosts, unseen at all times. to let our enemies think we do not exist. to foil their plots in more subtle ways. a constantly adapting and faceless brotherhood, untraceable, unknowable, compartmentalized and indestructible.

But I would also listen to and respect the opinions of those of my brotherhood who did not agree with me, and not blindly assume that my preconceptions are infallible or perfect from the beginning. I would learn from them and better myself, so that I might become the best man I can for the advancement of their goals.

Jexx21
07-17-2014, 05:40 AM
The Templars still used him, which makes his actions, their actions.

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 05:42 AM
being manipulated like a tool doesnt mean the actions of the group manipulating you fall into your responsibilty as well. How can you be accused of something you were unaware of and did not partake in?

Jexx21
07-17-2014, 05:42 AM
you misunderstood what I was saying

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 05:43 AM
oh pfft mah bad.

Namikaze_17
07-17-2014, 05:55 AM
The Templars still used him, which makes his actions, their actions.

Hitler probably didn't even agree with the Templar Philosophy as seen with his actions. So instead of the Templars being like: "Dur, let's use the Apple to Control people!" They decided to use the most feared man in the world to further their goal. "This Hitler guy has the people around his finger, let's use both of them to our advantage."

Thus, that's why his actions or inactions were irrelevant to them.

Xstantin
07-17-2014, 05:57 AM
^ Well neither did Cesare, but I guess it's a different story.

Ureh
07-17-2014, 06:10 AM
Henry Ford was a Templar and he condoned Hitler's actions ("Lord knows the world needs that kind of purge." in his letter to Edison). Abstergo was also responsible for the creation of the a-bomb, stating that it was necessary.

Jexx21
07-17-2014, 06:19 AM
I actually think that despite Abstergo's condemnation of the Borgia's, they're just as bad in a lot of their behaviors.

I'm actually pretty positive that with AC2 and ACB they were trying to make the Templars as a whole more villainous in general, and not just in the historical segments. AC1 really wasn't the best for a gray morality either, because the Templars were still doing cruel things and saying that there were for the better good. The gray morality thing is actually only really starting to come into fruition with ACR, AC3, and AC4.

Namikaze_17
07-17-2014, 06:19 AM
Henry Ford was a Templar and he condoned Hitler's actions ("Lord knows the world needs that kind of purge." in his letter to Edison). Abstergo was also responsible for the creation of the a-bomb, stating that it was necessary.

Well this stems from Modern day Templars that basically take away from the "True" Templar Philosophy. However, the A-bomb, Hitler, Nazis, etc. Was all used to further inflict greater fear among the people so that they could swoop in to take control of things.

It's all for a Purpose.......it is necessary.

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 06:22 AM
Omigosh Abstergo is like the cause of everything bad. Ugh.

Did they cause Global Warming too?

Jexx21
07-17-2014, 06:23 AM
no, no it is not necessary

our goals should be making sure that we deserve to survive and to ascend rather than simply doing so

Namikaze_17
07-17-2014, 06:27 AM
I actually think that despite Abstergo's condemnation of the Borgia's, they're just as bad in a lot of their behaviors.

I'm actually pretty positive that with AC2 and ACB they were trying to make the Templars as a whole more villainous in general, and not just in the historical segments. AC1 really wasn't the best for a gray morality either, because the Templars were still doing cruel things and saying that there were for the better good. The gray morality thing is actually only really starting to come into fruition with ACR, AC3, and AC4.

I personally despise both the Borgias and Modern day Templars because they are taking away what the Templar goal really is. AC1 Templars may have done cruel acts, but they were very justifiable in their actions as seen in their speeches. They AREN'T proud of these actions.....but so are the Assassins as seen with Altair or Connor actually regretting if it was right to kill the Men they killed.
Both sides are equally guilty really.....but it's all for a PURPOSE in the end.

I agree about ACR, AC3, and AC4 though.....hopefully Unity steps in this direction.

Jexx21
07-17-2014, 06:30 AM
I felt it was clear that the Templars in AC1 were still supposed to be obvious villains with hypocrisy issues, just like Abstergo and the modern day Templars.

Not that the Assassin's aren't hypocritical themselves.

I think that they are both terrible groups and no one should ever want to become part of either.

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 06:33 AM
Agreed. They're both extremists.

Namikaze_17
07-17-2014, 06:38 AM
no, no it is not necessary

our goals should be making sure that we deserve to survive and to ascend rather than simply doing so

Only look at the various wars/events throughout history: Crusades, Renaissance, Revolution, WWI, WWII, Making the A-bomb, Holocaust, etc.
Where would HUMANITY be without be these Events/Eras?
The Point of the Templars is to make Humanity learn.....to evolve into better people than we were before. Sure, it can be seen as harsh or cruel, but it's all for a greater good anyway. It was even Altair who said that some SACRIFICES are Necessary for the world to better......so the Templars are merely doing what's best for Humanity as they see it Can't fix itself.

travilanche
07-17-2014, 07:36 AM
(Sigh) The Templars aren't looking to dictate people lives like individuals including Hitler, Stalin, etc. We look for prosperity, peace, and things of that nature like the Assassin's. The ONLY DIFFERENCE is that we look to Control ONLY to make Mankind see their error, and guide them to a better future. They are free to do their regular errands as such, but all we do is apply tighter rules and regulations to only protect them, not keep them restricted.

Besides, you'd die for an organization that's goals and philosophy can be rather unattainable or restricting at best?

The templars could only obtain their goal through fascist means...putting the state above all things, especially choice, and truth.

There can never be a peaceful utopia. Humans are animals. They are not special. They are a social predatory species. And as such peace will never be a reality. Now I am not sure that the Assassins understand this, but the templars for sure don't. If they won, they would have to tighten their grip more and more to try to gain the kind of society they strive for, until the whole world looked like North Korea.

masterfenix2009
07-17-2014, 07:40 AM
Is Kim-Jong Un a Templar in the AC universe?

travilanche
07-17-2014, 07:49 AM
Is Kim-Jong Un a Templar in the AC universe?

He certainly uses the same tactics I feel the templars would use to keep people in line, because that is the ONLY way to keep people in line.

itsamea-mario
07-17-2014, 12:18 PM
Templar
so edgy...

I choose neither, i choose to be a random unaffiliated person who comes across a POE by accident. Of which there are so few.

Shahkulu101
07-17-2014, 02:35 PM
If I lived in the AC universe, and had the chance to become an Assassin, I be like:

"Nah man I'm staying outta dis shiz man ohhhhh no."

If a Templar opportunity came up, I be like:

"A'ight, let's check this shiz out, make a dolla or two aheheheh"

So yeah, both are extremists whose actions I don't agree with, but the Templars could offer me money - or at least positions that would gain me money. I would have the responsibility of power in that case, of which I would use to further the Templar's goals in an aim to amass an even greater fortune.

LynArifin26
07-17-2014, 03:07 PM
This is a difficult question; Both the Templars and Assassins have good intentions. But I guess I'll choose the Assassins :D

GunnerGalactico
07-17-2014, 07:20 PM
Agreed. They're both extremists.

That is true. To me, it all boils down to who is the least worst. It is always going to be a fluctuating thing. In AC2 and ACB, I was rooting for the Assassins... in ACR, AC3 and AC4, I felt conflicted. I'm not exactly sure how the Templars in Unity are going to be depicted. So, I'm remaining neutral on this.

JustPlainQuirky
07-17-2014, 07:30 PM
I dont think one is worse than the other. There could be one place/time where assassins are terrible, and another where it is the templars. And anothere where it's both or none.

I would be on my own.

But like I said if I had to pick I'd pick templars for the government alligance and manies :p

GunnerGalactico
07-17-2014, 07:39 PM
I dont think one is worse than the other. There could be one place/time where assassins are terrible, and another where it is the templars. And anothere where it's both or none.

I would be on my own.

But like I said if I had to pick I'd pick templars for the government alligance and manies :p

That's what I said in my post, it is a fluctuating thing. Sometimes the Templars are terrible... sometimes the Assassins are.

Namikaze_17
07-17-2014, 10:52 PM
If I lived in the AC universe, and had the chance to become an Assassin, I be like:

"Nah man I'm staying outta dis shiz man ohhhhh no."

If a Templar opportunity came up, I be like:

"A'ight, let's check this shiz out, make a dolla or two aheheheh"

So yeah, both are extremists whose actions I don't agree with, but the Templars could offer me money - or at least positions that would gain me money. I would have the responsibility of power in that case, of which I would use to further the Templar's goals in an aim to amass an even greater fortune.

And then when you die.....you can look at your killer and smile as you knew you had a beer in one hand, and a Titty in the other.

Shahkulu101
07-17-2014, 10:57 PM
Exactly.

I agree wholeheartedly with Hickey - although my lavish lifestyle would contain more than titties and beer. I would also try not to harm people, so no killing. I'd try to get them to be more lenient to the people if they were causing suffering and grief but if they told me no I'd keep my mouth shut and leave it at that.

Namikaze_17
07-17-2014, 11:03 PM
The templars could only obtain their goal through fascist means...putting the state above all things, especially choice, and truth.

There can never be a peaceful utopia. Humans are animals. They are not special. They are a social predatory species. And as such peace will never be a reality. Now I am not sure that the Assassins understand this, but the templars for sure don't. If they won, they would have to tighten their grip more and more to try to gain the kind of society they strive for, until the whole world looked like North Korea.

IT IS A REALITY! And we will fight forever if we have to obtain it. Then you speak of comparing us to North Korea......but what about the Assassins? Where would the world be with them on top!? A anarchic world full of war, chaos, and ultimate free will.
Why do you think no Country has this type of place!? It's too dangerous as Men don't know what to do, they NEED someone to take Charge and guide them to the Truth.


Exactly.

I agree wholeheartedly with Hickey - although my lavish lifestyle would contain more than titties and beer. I would also try not to harm people, so no killing. I'd try to get them to be more lenient to the people if they were causing suffering and grief but if they told me no I'd keep my mouth shut and leave it at that.

That's why I like Hickey's and Edward's POV when it comes down to both Orders as they saw were a loss cause as they rather live their life rather than be tied to a cause.

I'm glad Ubi gave us the "Common Man" POV of both sides as it's more realistic.

Jexx21
07-18-2014, 12:53 AM
Minato, I think you fail to understand what the Assassin order truly stands for.

Namikaze_17
07-18-2014, 01:33 AM
Minato, I think you fail to understand what the Assassin order truly stands for.

First, lol at the name. Second, I understand their Order and their ways, I even agree with it to an extent as I don't deny their existence or place in this world. I just find the Templars a more honorable course......

Jexx21
07-18-2014, 01:52 AM
But the world as the Assassins wish it to be isn't one of chaos or anarchy, it isn't an abolishment of government, but rather a removal of the corrupt, of the ones who seek to manipulate the minds of others, of over-control, and ultimately, a natural evolution of the mind and the human race into a peaceful state.

Freedom. The methods matter more than the result.

If you listen to the Templars, you will see that they are the type of people that would seek to impose their ways of thinking on others, not giving them true choice. This is not the way to reach peace.

JustPlainQuirky
07-18-2014, 01:58 AM
Jexx you would be one of those people who'd kill me if we were both in the AC verse.

Jexx21
07-18-2014, 02:00 AM
No, I wouldn't kill anyone. I'm basically a pacifist.

Ureh
07-18-2014, 02:04 AM
Templars are humans too, they're fallible and corruptible. Even if they ruled everyone, unopposed, they would eventually mess up on something and cause the world to be destroyed. :p :) :D

Eventually one of them would become disillusioned with the way things are, revive the Assassin hood, then the whole cycle starts again! x)

Jexx21
07-18-2014, 02:07 AM
I feel like the difference between the two is really exemplified in how Edward raised Haytham and how Reginald Birch raised Haytham.

Namikaze_17
07-18-2014, 02:07 AM
No, I wouldn't kill anyone. I'm basically a pacifist.

*Proceeds to punch Jexx in the Face*

"NOW WHATCHA GONNA DO WHEN NAMIKAZE RUNS WILD ON YOU!!!!"

Jexx21
07-18-2014, 02:09 AM
i have to admit I actually do tend to break from my pacifistic beliefs when there are high emotional stakes. Like one time I punched a dude in the neck because he said something that was quite insulting, but I tried to pull back at the last second resulting in a weak punch and a pissed off dude who insulted me. I pulled back because I realized I was doing something I didn't want to, but obviously the pull back didn't work out >.<

Namikaze_17
07-18-2014, 02:14 AM
i have to admit I actually do tend to break from my pacifistic beliefs when there are high emotional stakes. Like one time I punched a dude in the neck because he said something that was quite insulting, but I tried to pull back at the last second resulting in a weak punch and a pissed off dude who insulted me. I pulled back because I realized I was doing something I didn't want to, but obviously the pull back didn't work out >.<

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Sabu_in_ECW.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabu_(wrestler)&h=1006&w=964&tbnid=ja8XGOTUIDdfVM:&zoom=1&q=ecw+taz+crossing+arms&docid=b--x50RklOIPjM&ei=pXTIU57FIciV8gHKuICICg&tbm=isch&ved=0CB0QMygAMAA
Not impressed.......

Nakigara1985
11-21-2014, 08:56 AM
While the Assassin's are cool and badass like, the Templars just have so many cool people. To name a couple, Shay Patrick Cormac and Haythem Kenway. :cool:
So if I were to pick a side, I'd go with the Templars, because I think they have it right.

But the real question is: Which side is right or wrong? That's a toughie even for me.

pirate1802
11-21-2014, 09:32 AM
There will always be people on top of the food chain and there will always be people under their boots, whether it be democracy, aristocracy or a junta leadership. Better it be Templars then, than someone motivated by petty reasons. And better still if you are among that ruling class. Then you get to influence them and affect their decisions. :cool:

Fatal-Feit
11-21-2014, 02:22 PM
But the real question is: Which side is right or wrong? That's a toughie even for me.

Choose whichever would help you sleep at night. What do YOU think is better? Not what IS, because there isn't.

The problem I have with this decision are how they're portrayed in the games. The Templars' goals, methods, and ideology, they all align with me. However, I just can't past my distaste for them. In AC:1, the Ezio Trilogy, and Unity, (most) of the Templars are a joke. They are villainous, vile beings, the cause of the cities' distress. It's the Assassins who're white-knighted, being the kind souls who helps beat up unfaithful husbands, enriching the poor and crippled, and taking down psychopaths. And there's a whole irony to that. Ugh. If I had to choose a side, it would be the Templars during the 18th Century.

Namikaze_17
11-21-2014, 02:27 PM
Choose whichever would help you sleep at night. What do YOU think is better? Not what IS, because there isn't.

The problem I have with this decision are how they're portrayed in the games. The Templars' goals, methods, and ideology, they all align with me. However, I just can't past my distaste for them. In AC:1, the Ezio Trilogy, and Unity, (most) of the Templars are a joke. They are villainous, vile beings, the cause of the cities' distress. It's the Assassins who're white-knighted, being the kind souls who helps beat up unfaithful husbands, enriching the poor and crippled, and taking down psychopaths. And there's a whole irony to that. Ugh. If I had to choose a side, it would be the Templars during the 18th Century.

Don't forget MD Templars. :rolleyes:

And same for me. I'd probably be a Hunter though.

Fatal-Feit
11-21-2014, 02:35 PM
Don't forget MD Templars. :rolleyes:

And same for me. I'd probably be a Hunter though.

I don't care enough about the MD story to recall, you know that. :rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
11-21-2014, 02:40 PM
I don't care enough about the MD story to recall, you know that. :rolleyes:

Oh, yes...myself as well.

For why would we care about something that doesn't exist? :rolleyes:

ze_topazio
11-21-2014, 03:41 PM
What the Templars want to achieve is similar to how my country's dictatorship worked, a dictatorship ruled by well intentioned people who are convinced only they know what's the best for everybody because everybody other than them is not enlightened like they are, in the name of peace people are kept ignorant, in the name of peace information is restricted, in the name of peace nobody is allowed to have an opinion on anything, in the name of peace subjugation by force and punishment is justified, in the name of peace wealth is distributed in whatever way they want, in the name of peace people's life path is decided by them, in the name of peace people's tastes are decided by them, fashion is decided by them, the direction of the world is decided by them, etc..., in their ideal world we wouldn't be able to be here discussing this because they would be the ones deciding which side we support, under them people would live like marionettes.

The result of this is a general sense of fear among everybody, a sense of lack of satisfaction, a sense of injustice, nobody is truly happy, nobody feels really safe or peaceful.

What the Templars want is insane, a small group of people have no right to dictate how everybody live their lives, and history has proved several times that eventually people decide they have had enough and revolutions happen, so their ultimate goal is bound to fail even if the Assassins are not around.

Namikaze_17
11-21-2014, 03:58 PM
What the Templars want to achieve is similar to how my country's dictatorship worked, a dictatorship ruled by well intentioned people who are convinced only they know what's the best for everybody because everybody other than them is not enlightened like they are, in the name of peace people are kept ignorant, in the name of peace information is restricted, in the name of peace nobody is allowed to have an opinion on anything, in the name of peace subjugation by force and punishment is justified, in the name of peace wealth is distributed in whatever way they want, in the name of peace people's life path is decided by them, in the name of peace people's tastes are decided by them, fashion is decided by them, the direction of the world is decided by them, etc..., in their ideal world we wouldn't be able to be here discussing this because they would be the ones deciding which side we support, under them people would live like marionettes.

The result of this is a general sense of fear among everybody, a sense of lack of satisfaction, a sense of injustice, nobody is truly happy, nobody feels really safe or peaceful.

What the Templars want is insane, a small group of people have no right to dictate how everybody live their lives, and history has proved several times that eventually people decide they have had enough and revolutions happen, so their ultimate goal is bound to fail even if the Assassins are not around.


Well that certainly begs a thought-provoking question:

Is it better to live in a society where things are decided for you, but you are safe and sober?

Or a society where you are permitted to do as you please, but danger waits in every corner?

shafdude
11-21-2014, 04:14 PM
I think the idea of peace is incorrect here. Peace is not working to achieve something, like perhaps the assassins and templars are. Peace is when you stop working for a change in reality and accept it the way it is. If you continue to work then you are fueling the absence of peace?

gnosis_guyver1
11-21-2014, 04:24 PM
What the Templar true goal is not control exactly but freedom freedom from human flaw shown in brotherhood templar puzzles in a recording and as George Monro said in rogue freedom from want is the greatest freedom of all. And he is right look at what too wanting can do to a person edward wanted to be rich and powerful quickly his want was so huge it nearly destroyed him and destroyed his previous relationship Edward didn't realize how lucky he was Caroline stuck with him so long but his want of being rich was what put him into the downward spiral most do not recover from that.

J-dude95
12-09-2014, 06:28 AM
I would be an Assassin. I think that the Templar way will never work. I think this simply because the Templars are too susceptible to corruption. If the Templars are ever able to bring about their "New World Order" that they like to brag about, and take total control over the whole of humanity, they would just start fighting with each other for their own selfish gains. If they finish off the assassins, and have no more enemy to fight, individual Templars will just start doing everything they can to rise in rank and power, including killing fellow Templars.

Corruption in the Templar Order can be seen throughout their history:

During the 3rd Crusade, Al Mualim became a Templar so that he could get the apple, he then betrayed the order and tried to keep all the power for himself: corruption

Ceaser Borgia, during the Italian Renaissance tried to steal the apple of Eden, and take all the power for himself. And his co-conspirators, were mostly in on it for the wealth and power also. Juan Borgia for example, lol. corruption

Thomas Hickey in AC III made no secret about his allegiances "They paid me, so I said yes. What is principle anyway, huh? Can you take it to the bank? I'm the kinda guy who has a bear in one hand, and a titty in the other!" Thomas Hickey 1776. corruption

Woods Rodgers in AC IV was more interested in his slave trade enterprises than helping the Templar cause, which because of, he eventually got throne out of the order after surviving his assassination attempt by the Assassin Edward Kenway. corruption

Benjamin Church in AC III, along with other Templars, all collectively, betrayed the order to join the British. "We had a dream, Benjamin! A dream you sought to destroy! And for that, my fallen friend, you will be made to pay." Haytham Kenway 1778. corruption

There are even more examples in AC Unity. The list goes on and on.

Once individual Templars start fighting with them selves, the order would fall into chaos, they would loose control. At the same time humanity would be hollowed out by the apples and other pieces of Eden, completely striped of all free will, and thought, incapable of operating without a guiding hand pulling the strings. So humanity would descend into chaos as well, once the Templars have either completely destroyed themselves, or are too badly damaged from infighting to maintain their control. After this all of humanity might just fall under the complete enslavement of Juno, or are doomed to just fall into a new dark age, and will have to just start over.

So what I'm saying is that control is a delicate matter, and the Templars could never be entrusted with it, and no one should. Humanities best bet is to keep its free will, solve its own issues, develop on its own, and find true peace for its self. :)

Pr0metheus 1962
12-09-2014, 12:00 PM
Ii was thinking the other day are the templars really that wrong? I mean yes, the ways that they choose to achieve peace are morally incorrect and evil...

LOL. So are you suggesting that the Assassins' methods - by which I mean brutal murder - are morally correct and good?

There is no "good" side in the war between Assassins and Templars. Both are the equivalent of rival mafia families whose morality stretches only to keeping "civilans" out of the fight.

One of the main things that's so appealing about the series is its potential for complexity that goes beyond the tired old "good guys vs. bad guys" thing. I just wish the developers could see that, and write the Assassins and Templars with a bit more complexity.

Which side would I choose? I dunno. I'm leaning more towards Templar right now. But if it wasn't for all the murdering, I'd choose Assassin in a heartbeat.

The problem is, Assassins want to secure "freedom" by the very act of denying any freedom to their enemies. This is not a sane philosophy.

I kinda wish there were a third option, to join a group that killed bad philosophies using the sword of persuasion and the hidden blade of reason. But I guess that might not make such an exciting game.

VestigialLlama4
12-09-2014, 12:19 PM
The problem is, Assassins want to secure "freedom" by the very act of denying any freedom to their enemies. This is not a sane philosophy.

That's the irony of the conflict when done right. A lot of what the Templar actions such as pardoning slavery(allowing for some token liberals here and there), war profiteering and mass violence and starvation are stuff that "sane" people have done throughout history and continue to do so, but the Assassins killing them seems more extreme and insane. I mean the people who colonized the New World and killed Native Tribes, indulged in the Slave Trade and engaged in colonialism, and even some of the Nazis and the enabling businessmen who supported them were sane as well, but they did evil things anyway.



There is no "good" side in the war between Assassins and Templars. Both are the equivalent of rival mafia families whose morality stretches only to keeping "civilans" out of the fight.

Unfortunately yes. That's why they should factionalize and make it more complex. They tried in UNITY but didn't go all the way.

Personally I never found the Templars to have a coherent philosophy and I largely see them as power-grabbing asshats. To me Rodrigo Borgia isn't an exception he is the true Templar but one who doesn't lie or deny who he is. That said I don't necessarily support the Assassins, I like individuals in the organization more than Templars and I like Assassins for the fact that they are not into conversion and proselytizing on the whole. The only faction I have real identification and sympathy for is the Nassau Pirates.

There can be complex Templars but they needed to rewrite their story schema completely and they failed to do that and now I think they've dug themselves in a real deep hole.

similarly
12-09-2014, 12:24 PM
I hope they never will make Templars bad or Assassin's good or vice versa. I love the fact that you must always question whether or not you're on the right side. I loved in ACIII how everybody's last words were about what a fool I was and how they were only trying to make things better.

Shahkulu101
12-09-2014, 02:24 PM
Templar's cause they ballin'.

Namikaze_17
12-09-2014, 02:58 PM
Templar's cause they ballin'.

Da Truth. :cool:

RinoTheBouncer
12-09-2014, 05:54 PM
There’s too much dictatorship in the world. Too many self-righteous a**holes who think they’re eligible to tell people what to do, what not to wear, whom not to marry, what you can and cannot say about them and they’re always ready to take the most brutal and punishing steps instantly to reward those who express how their opposition towards the system. I’m sorry, but I’d rather have the “murderous Assassins” and “chaos” over a fake peace, a system of lambs being led by one highly corrupted shepherd who was chosen by fake elections or inherited a position that they do not deserve.

We were born naked and free. Nobody has the right to tell us what to do, what’s right for us, what’s bad for us. If we need a law, it should only make sure that nobody abuses anybody, not a law of superiority masked as equality or bias towards one religion or race or gender or another, nor a law that considers two men kissing being more offensive than poverty, unemployment and injustice.

I’d rather live in a world where there’s chaos than a world of masked terrorism. Hitler was a murderer, and he’s gone now, but we have so many Hitlers nowadays, not the type who executes people in masses, but the type that creates a system kills you physically and mentally, directly and indirectly. The people cannot see it because they’re blinded by the image of that system that the promote through the media. So no, I’d rather live in a world drink morbid water that I know and see that it’s morbid, than drink a cherry flavored poison.

I am an Assassin.


LOL. So are you suggesting that the Assassins' methods - by which I mean brutal murder - are morally correct and good?

Excuse me, but not every murder is wrong. It depends on whom you’re murdering. The government murders so many people in the name of “law”. Why is that ok and just shooting a criminal in the head or stabbing them with a hidden blade is a “brutal” and frowned upon, especially when the “victim” here murdered so many innocents?