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horseback
06-26-2004, 11:57 PM
A nice 1/48th scale Spit IX on Hyperscale; hope you guys like it...

http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04/spitfireixjjcme_1.htm

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

horseback
06-26-2004, 11:57 PM
A nice 1/48th scale Spit IX on Hyperscale; hope you guys like it...

http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04/spitfireixjjcme_1.htm

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

hughlb2
06-27-2004, 12:47 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

JG52_Helgstrand
06-27-2004, 01:16 AM
Even though I'm pretty much an axis AC flyer I have a soft spot for the Spitfire, and man that model is a beaut.
Thanx for sharing...

Hptm.Helgstrand Staffelfuhrer
JG52 Recruiting Officer
JG52 The Butcherbirds (http://www.geocities.com/jg52thebutcherbirds/)
http://img38.photobucket.com/albums/v117/Helgstrand/JG52Sig_06.jpg

Sam_the_greek
06-27-2004, 03:03 AM
You are God!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ilsigs/spitfire.jpg

G├┬Âring: "Gibt es noch etwas das ich f├╝r Sie tun kan?"
Galland: "Jawul Herr Feldmarschalk, geben Sie mir ein Staffel Spitfires!"
"The Battle of Britain"

SeaFireLIV
06-27-2004, 03:04 AM
Very nice indeed.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Yakgirlgo.jpg
Time to Escape!

Want to see more? go here: http://seafire.dreyermachine.com/
(Fantasy sections for mature viewers only).

F19_Ob
06-27-2004, 04:07 AM
Thats BEAUTIFUL !!

Itto_Okami
06-27-2004, 05:46 AM
great work... pity that the wings are wrong... MK392 was a LF.IXe... and there are many pictures around of it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

S!

Itto

jensenpark
06-27-2004, 09:17 AM
very nice!

Is there a skin somewhere of JEJ's Spit?

http://www.corsair-web.com/thistler/rtfoxint.jpg
Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

LStarosta
06-27-2004, 09:19 AM
She damn sure is a beauty isn't she?

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!

Control_Damage
06-27-2004, 09:41 AM
Very nice model that. If only I could finish mine to that standard and I'd be one happy boy.

Itto_Okami, iirc MK392 was built as a MkIXc and converted to a MkIXe later in 1944. I'm pretty sure that on D-Day MK392 possesed the 'c' wing and its 2x20mm + 4x.303" armament and so it is correct.

Salut!

Control_Damage.

horseback
06-27-2004, 10:45 AM
My sources all agree that the 'e' wing started showing up in the latter half of 1944, on MK VIII, IX, XVI and Mk XIV Spitfires, which were in production at the time. MK392 was a Supermarine built MK IX, part of the 9th order for Supermarine, ordered as MK Vc, built as Mk Vc, Mk IX, and Mk XVI. Arriving some time before D-Day, it was undoubtedly carrying 'c' wings while it wore a full set of invasion stripes (which RAF unit appear to have stripped off entirely by that July). Whether it was re-equipped with 'e' wings or not before it was written off in Holland by 401 Squadron in March 1945 is not recorded anywhere in my library.

A number of surviving Spitfires have been painted by their private owners to copy MK392, and since the majority of surviving Merlin Spits appear to be late war builds, many of them would have 'e' wings. This may have led to confusion on the parts of some people.

cheers

horseback

PS-that's not my workmanship-my Spits all have the 'soft' demarcation on the upper camo colors, and tend to sit a little different than the real thing, no matter what I do.

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Itto_Okami
06-28-2004, 06:10 AM
Hi Horseback... I'm well aware of those Spitfires.
Take a look at the picture in this link

http://aerostories.free.fr/technique/turbo/page2.html

even if a poor quality picture, if you look close to te armament you'll see that's a E wing and the picture was taken at Bazenville just after the D-Day.

A closer view of the Spitfire can be seen here:

http://www.sepsy.de/raf-pilots.htm

You can see how worn are the d-day markings. The picture was cutted but there is a complete one where you can see clearly the E wing armament, just near Sally, the dog with Johnson. And there are more clear pictures around that shows that the s/n was partly overpainted by the invasion bands.
From my point of view, the conversion from C to E wing took place before the D-Day.

Anyway, Johnson flew for sure at least two different IX, EN398 and MK392 gaining 24 of his 38 (34? 40?) victories. Both Spitfires were in charge to the 144th Canadian Wing at the same time. EN398 had a Merlin 63 and could be that confusion about the wing configuration came from this. EN398 had a s/n applied on the top of the tail band, with very small letters, nearly unreadable. From a side picture, usually it's not easy to tell wing type and maybe the code JE-J placed on the two Spits made confusion to arise about one or the other.

S!

Itto

S!

Itto

horseback
06-28-2004, 06:33 PM
Itto-

Regret the delay in my response, but I was at work and away from my sources. The shots you link were publicity stills, apparently taken the in the same session. The aircraft in the picture is definitely not MK392. Nowhere in either picture can the fuselage codes or the serial number be seen, and in all likelihood the aircraft used as a prop was chosen for its relatively pristine condition.

The wear on the leading edge is consitant with a 'field' application of paint that hadn't quite cured before hands were put on it-aircraft in forward bases were usually pushed into their revetments by all hands available. If you look closely, you can still see the factory applied division of the upper grey camo with the dark green on the wing leading edges in both shots.

According to Osprey's Aricraft of the Aces Vol. 5, Late Marque Spitfire Aces, 1942-45, MK392 was an LF Mk IXB, and the aircraft in the profile (No. 14 on page 38, for those who are following this debate) is clearly a 'c' wing. The caption for No.14, in the Colour Plates section at the back of the book states that the profile is of the aircraft as it appeared in France on 16 June 1944, and that it was first flown seven months earlier, or December 1943. Johnson took over the Canadian Wing in March of 1944, and selected MK392 after flying six or seven new Spits just delivered from the maintenance units, according to his autobiography Wing Leader.

As I pointed out earlier, 'e' wings started reaching front line units in the second half of 1944. That would mean June at the earliest.

Johnson flew MK392 throughout his tenure with 144 Wing, until early 1945. Since the 'e' wing was structurally different, a 'c' wing could not be field changed into 'e'standards. This would make an exchange of wings a depot level change, and there is no evidence that MK392 was ever changed to 'e' wing or even exchanged its rounded rudder for a pointed one (a much easier change).

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

wayno7777
06-28-2004, 10:34 PM
Great job!! Keep it up, horseback!

This is Al Deere's MK1 in 1/32nd scale.
http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Models/aa.jpg

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

LubricatedGoat
06-28-2004, 10:44 PM
I like this one much better.

http://www.marcel-jurca.com/en/index.htm

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

horseback
06-29-2004, 08:46 AM
Very nice, Goat. But they're too big for my desk, and they leave oil spots.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Itto_Okami
07-17-2004, 06:58 AM
A bit of time not posting... both research and holydays http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

About the introduction of the "E" wing I've found something interesting on the magazine "Model Aircraft Monthly"

(Volume 3 - Issue 6 - June 2004)

Citing:
"Johnnie Johnson D-Day Spitfires - MK392 - Spitfire Mk.IXc or IXe?

It is thought that at least two Spitfire Mk IXs were used by Wg Cdr Johnson during the D-Day operations, MK392,

adorned with his initails, JE-J, is almost certainly one of them, althoug there seems to be some controversy over

the exact sub-type that MK392 actually was!
It was build at Vickers-Armstrong Supermarine's Caste Bromwich in early February 1944, and is most likely to have

started his life as a MK IXc. 'The Bible', (ie Morgan and Shacklady's "Spitfire - The History"), gives no clue as

to its wing armament, other that it was in a batch originally ordered as Spitfire MK Vcs, but changed to MK IXs,

which were producted as Merlin 66-engined LF MK IXcs.
MK392 left 8MU on 12 February 1944 and appears and appears to have remained in squadron service untill written

off "CAT E" on 20 April 1945. It was assigned to No 441 Squadron and was presumably allocated to Wg Cdr Johnson

from there, who then had his initials painted on the fuselage sides.
No identifiable photographs appear to exist of MK392, but there is a wonderful photo of Wg Cdr Johnson with his

pet labrador 'Sally', standing infront of a Spitfire IXe, in what appear to be full invasion stripes, reportedly

taken in July 1944.
So could MK392 have been a Spitfire MK IXe? [here start the interesting thing]
According to Michael J F Bowyer's excellent book "Fighters of the Many, there were some forty MK IXes on TAF 2

Strength on D-Day 6 June 1944 - could MK392 have been one of them? The serial numebre allocation either side of

MK392 were all Spitfire MK IXcs, but even if MK392 had been built as a MK IXc, it is quite possible that his wing

armament could have been changed by an 'In Service Modification' or even 'a Factory Conversion', (as in case of

ML407). As a famous Wing Leader, it is not beyond realms of possibility that Johnson could even have had the

armament changed into the then new "e" wing armament? Remember RHIP (Rank Has Its Privileges!).
The 'Jury is still out' and to be honest, we may NEVER know for certain if MK392 had "c" or "e" wing armamanet

when Wg Cdr Johnson was flying out of B3/St Croix sur Mere, but it does allow you to produce a model from a

standard kit - with a few additional touches!"

Well... this piece don't give a lot of light about the particular Spitfire we were talking of but cites a source

that say that at least 40 Spitfires IX with "e" wing were in service at the time of D-Day. The same magazine clearly states the serial and the story of one of those Spitfires which was ML407 which, as MK392, was build as a Spitfire MK IXc, but then modified to the "e" wing armament. After the modification this particular Spitfire was issued, in date 29 April 1944, to the Squadron 485, coded OU-V and assigned to Fl Off Johnnie Houlton, a Malta veteran. This Spitfire is particulary remembered because in the afternoon of 6 June 1944 achived the first Spitfire kill over Normandy, shooting down a Ju.88.
Probably mass production "e" wing had to wait untill the critical days after D-Day were gone but it looks clear that "e" wing Spitfires were in service well before the D-Day.

S!

Itto

Simjock
07-17-2004, 09:42 AM
Outstanding model, man! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I'll bet if I clean my closet I can find a few models in there but nothing comparable to this one.

It's been years since I modeled anything, those pictures have got me motivated to start one.

Here is a link to a shop I worked at as a kid. Great suplyer.
http://www.colpar.com

http://www.pcaviation.net/simjocksig.jpeg (http://www.pcaviation.net/)

"Take is optional, landing is manditory. When worse comes to worse, just remember to keep the greasy side down."

horseback
07-17-2004, 11:29 AM
First of all, let me reiterate: that is not my model! My JE-J was made from an ICM kit, and the paint divisions are much softer, and I always drop the door/hatch to show off my interiors.

I haven't gone into the mysteries of posting pictures on the web, and since discovering the joys of virtual flight, a couple of half-finished P-40K conversions have languished in my garage for the last 3 and a half years, my series of Messerschmitts stands stopped at a G-4, My Spits at the mid-series MK IXc, my FW-190s at the A-4, my Jugs at the D-5, Corsairs at the -1A, Wildcats at the -4, and the Mustangs at the D-10 (WD*C with invasion stripes, natcherly). There are a couple thousand dollars worth of model kits still in their boxes waiting for me to get around to them in my garage, with numerous detail and resin update sets, gallons of Aeromaster & Polly Scale paints, and two enormous loose leaf binders of decals. I have exchanged one addiction (AMS-Advanced Modeler's Syndrome) for another. Maybe when I retire...

As for the e wing vs c wing controversy, all I can say is that MK 392 was apparently built with a c wing, and we know that Johnson's a/c were only hit by enemy fire on one occasion, not in the wing, and barely damaging the paint. In my military and defense contracting experience (literally all my life; my father retired from the Air Force when I was 18, I spent 6 years in the Navy, and the 24 years since working for a major defense contractor), NOBODY fixes something that already works fine, especially the Wing Commander's personal aircraft, while engaged in combat operations.

As pointed out before, changing the wings is not a matter of modifying the existing wings, but replacing them, a depot level job. That meant that the aircraft would be turned in to a Maintenance Unit, rarely to be returned to the original unit. The RAF and the British military in general were notably abstemious (cheap, for those of you in Rio Linda), and the expense of exchanging perfectly good c wings for e wings, even for a top-scoring Wing Commander, would not be authorized without some world-class string pulling inconsistant with Johnson's reputation.

While there were probably e winged Mk IXs in Johnson's wing by the time D-Day rolled around, it seems unlikely that he would have exchanged an aircraft whose characteristics he was thoroughly familiar with for one he was not during a period of intense operations. He was the kind of leader who made sure his men had the best equipment before he would exercise his 'perks', and the newer types would have gone to replace worn out or damaged aircraft assigned to junior pilots until either his own aircraft was damaged or worn out. That apparently did not happen.

The only e winged Spit that we know Johnson regularly flew during the war was the Mk XIVe he flew as the WingCo of 127 Wing near the war's end.

All else is speculation.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944