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Lonesoldier2012
03-07-2012, 11:25 PM
In Ac1 after you kill Abu Nuqoud and return to the Assassin's Bureau in Damascus Altair declares Abu a coward for using poison as a means to kill. yet Altair is the one who invented the poison blade.

Moultonborough
03-07-2012, 11:27 PM
Never thought about that.

Lonesoldier2012
03-07-2012, 11:30 PM
Never thought about that.

Neither had i. good thing i'm replaying through all the Ac's.

blazefp
03-07-2012, 11:33 PM
you should read the codex pages in ACII. I think he makes a reference about that there, not completely sure though

notafanboy
03-07-2012, 11:34 PM
you should read the codex pages in ACII. I think he makes a reference about that there, not completely sure though
he did, he also changed the order alot including the use of poison

Apirka
03-07-2012, 11:35 PM
I think that's more like character development. He says later in the codex that if the Assassin's need to use poison to do their work then so be it, as long as they stay true to the creed. ...Or something similar to that, at least.

dxsxhxcx
03-07-2012, 11:36 PM
"Robert de Sable may be dead, but his brotherhood survives. Though less conspicuous in appearance, I fear they remain a threat. Where once they proudly walked the streets – making for easier targets – now they retreat into the shadows. It grows difficult to track them. What wicked things will they weave in the darkness? Our work will be all the more complicated for it.Already there are rumors of a movement on Cyprus. I will have to investigate...It's made me realize that our tactics, too, must change. It means an end to our fortresses. To our penchant for spectacular displays of public assassinations. We must weave our webs quietly. And we must do so differently than we have in the past.Though I ask my brothers now to abandon their rituals, I do not ask that they abandon the creed. THIS is what makes us Assassins. Not the removal of a finger. Not a false promise of paradise. Not the prohibition of poison. Our duty is to the people, not to custom. If we must sneak, we shall sneak. If we must use poison, we shall use poison. If our blades can be used without removing fingers, we shall not demand they be taken. And we shall not manipulate our initiates with lies and parlor tricks. We shall speak plainly and honestly. We shall be made anew..." - Page 6, Codex

Lonesoldier2012
03-07-2012, 11:46 PM
"Robert de Sable may be dead, but his brotherhood survives. Though less conspicuous in appearance, I fear they remain a threat. Where once they proudly walked the streets – making for easier targets – now they retreat into the shadows. It grows difficult to track them. What wicked things will they weave in the darkness? Our work will be all the more complicated for it.Already there are rumors of a movement on Cyprus. I will have to investigate...It's made me realize that our tactics, too, must change. It means an end to our fortresses. To our penchant for spectacular displays of public assassinations. We must weave our webs quietly. And we must do so differently than we have in the past.Though I ask my brothers now to abandon their rituals, I do not ask that they abandon the creed. THIS is what makes us Assassins. Not the removal of a finger. Not a false promise of paradise. Not the prohibition of poison. Our duty is to the people, not to custom. If we must sneak, we shall sneak. If we must use poison, we shall use poison. If our blades can be used without removing fingers, we shall not demand they be taken. And we shall not manipulate our initiates with lies and parlor tricks. We shall speak plainly and honestly. We shall be made anew..." - Page 6, CodexStill kind of a hypocrite :p

blazefp
03-07-2012, 11:51 PM
Still kind of a hypocrite :p

In a way maybe but I think he just changed and so changed his mind so I wouldn't call him hypocrite.

alientraveller
03-07-2012, 11:53 PM
The unexamined life is not worth living - Socrates.

dxsxhxcx
03-07-2012, 11:53 PM
he would have been a hypocrite if he had written that page before the events you mentioned...

kudos17
03-08-2012, 12:04 AM
he would have been a hypocrite if he had written that page before the events you mentioned...This. Before the Apple, Altair was somewhat young and naive. As he grew older, things needed to change. The use of poison one of many.Hell, even after inventing the tactics of the poison blade, he may still think it was cowardly to use it before "things changed", so to speak. Does that make him a hypocrite? Perhaps to some, but not to me.There's two points in a war: Where it can be won with honor intact, and where it must be won regardless.If you ask me, when one needs to go to war, honor has been thrown out the window anyway. But that would be me getting a little off-topic and philosophical. :p

frogger504
03-08-2012, 12:25 AM
hy·poc·ri·sy/hiˈpäkrisē/
Noun:
The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.


He was not a hypocrite, his morals changed to match his customs.

smengler
03-08-2012, 12:37 AM
This can be related to WW1. The British did not want to use machine guns initially, but eventually had to because the opposing side was too strong to not use them. Does that make the British hypocritical?

sasukeuchiha50
03-08-2012, 12:40 AM
My head almost exploded for attempting to read this.

Lonesoldier2012
03-08-2012, 12:40 AM
Alright i get it. i hadn't read that page before.

JumpInTheFire13
03-08-2012, 12:58 AM
How dare you call Altair a hypocrite!
I'm keeding I'm keeding. Like others have said, I wouldn't call him a hypocrite because he basically had an epiphany about the entire order.

david99noisy
03-08-2012, 01:03 AM
In Ac1 after you kill Abu Nuqoud and return to the Assassin's Bureau in Damascus Altair declares Abu a coward for using poison as a means to kill. yet Altair is the one who invented the poison blade.

You sohuld think about how Altair evolves as a character and becomes wiser through age. He was brash and arrogant, and was likely to bash anyone if they gave him the subtlest reason, but once he uses the apple to discover how to build the poison blade he is old and is much wiser to think of poison as cowardly, and there's a difference between coming up to someone and stabbing them to poison them, the poison simply ensures death while Abu likely just left the poison there or slyly fed it to whoever, but Altair must realize later that smart doesn't mean cowardly.

JumpInTheFire13
03-08-2012, 01:12 AM
^^^ On a completely unrelated note, I love your signature.

LightRey
03-08-2012, 10:08 AM
Considering that the order has to deal with three fundamental ironies, every Assassin is by definition a hypocrite.

Jamison_J_B
03-08-2012, 10:13 AM
The unexamined life is not worth living - Socrates.

Extremely true words. True, true, true. I really do love reading Socrates.

Assassin_M
03-08-2012, 10:37 AM
Considering that the order has to deal with three fundamental ironies, every Assassin is by definition a hypocrite.
c`mon man ? I was about to say that, seriously....
dont talk to me again :p
On a more serious note...... Exactly..

InfectedNation
03-08-2012, 05:43 PM
He was probably taught by Al Mualim that it was a cowards tool - and we all know how it ended with him...

SleezeRocker
03-08-2012, 05:49 PM
Yeah I can see that, but wasn't it the time when Altair was still somewhat arrogant. He was all into "Im such a badasss I needs no discretion!" Until he finally learned discipline and patience and thought "Hmm..poison is actually fiarly discreet!"

If anything...I think Abu actually taught Altair (and future) Assassin's a new Kill Move :P

pacmanate
03-08-2012, 06:00 PM
Was going to mention this yesterday! Such a hypocrite "He used poison a cowards tool"

Years later..........

"I made a blade to deliver poison :DDDDDDDDDDDDDD!"

Mutley_Rulz
03-08-2012, 09:50 PM
I guess it's just a show of his development throughout the events of AC1 to him leading the order.

Gil_217
03-08-2012, 10:47 PM
No, in this particular case he wasn't being an hypocrite because when he said that to Abul he never used poison to kill anyone.

It was at a latter part of his life, after changing his attitude, that because of the difficult that the Assassin's were having in tracking and killing their targets, and because they were becoming to go underground (less public assassinations, more "silent" and out of the public view), he started to realize that sometimes, poison was the best way to kill someone ( he realized that if poison is the best tactic to use in an assassination, so be it)

He would be an hypocrite if he said what he said to Abul after he started utilizing poison to kill their targets.

Alabama Love
03-09-2012, 03:27 AM
having a change of heart after a period of time = hypocrite
got it.

Lonesoldier2012
03-09-2012, 03:31 AM
having a change of heart after a period of time = hypocrite
got it.

If you would've read the thread you would see i admitted i was wrong.