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View Full Version : AC3.. American Patriotism... whats so bad about it



Radman500
03-06-2012, 06:12 AM
it seems like alot of people, especially non-americans after seeing the trailer are worried about AC3 being a "pro-amerca.... america all the way, jingoism, nationalism" whatever..... and that's a bad thing,

look there are many bad things about nationalism, but there are also good things as well, just like there is good and bad with internationalism, capitalism, communism and every other type of ism, its black and white..

whats so bad, about a game being patriotic.... im sure there are other movies and games that show patriotism in many other countries.... im sure there are some swedish made films that are patriotic, im sure there are german films that are patriotic, im sure there are russian films that are patriotic......

there is nothing bad about being patriotic, indentifying with your culture, and your country, when violence and hatred start, that's when nationalism turns into that black area, but nonetheless

whats wrong with AC3 being American patriotic


Captain America always used to be my favorite super hero, still is not cause he was "patriotic", but cause he fought or freedom, and liberty which i truly believe are the "American ways" and it made me proud to be an American, and im sure Cap made people back then proud "a skinny dude, does a test experiement, turns out to be a bad*** fighting machine, fighting or whats right".. representing American.. it made me proud
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/joseph_the_red/Wallpapers/CaptainAmericaWallpaper9.jpgNow Cap isn't what he used to be anymore, he is now something else, the movie, which i liked, isn't really the Cap that i remember, in the comics



Now i realize that the story, the universe, the storytelling of Captain America is completely different then Assassins Creed, i know that

Altair, Ezio and now Connor are totally different people then Steve Rogers.... the assassins are totally different then the avengers.. or other superheroes, there completely different

but i was using cap as a example

i don't view media, rather it be a game, movie.. that shows patriotism of a country or a group as a bad thing, since there are many other stuff that show patriotism, nationalism all around the world...

im sure there are arab movies that praise arabs

im sure there are israeli video games, that praise isralies..



i just don't see a problem with patriotism/nationalism being represented in video games

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 06:18 AM
Patriotism is a concept of close-mindedness for people who are bound by the imaginary restrictions of man.

Just putting that out there.

Radman500
03-06-2012, 06:20 AM
Patriotism is a concept of close-mindedness for people who are bound by the imaginary restrictions of man.

Just putting that out there.

people are different,

regardless of liberal's beliefs.... a norseman from norway is different then an african tribesman from zimbabwe.

there different, we all are humans, but we are not all the same, as liberals tend to believe

tjbyrum1
03-06-2012, 06:24 AM
What people don't seem to realize is that for the past few years we've been killing hundreds and hundreds of Syrians, Italians, and Ottomans yet no one complained.

And suddenly we got an Assassin fighting against some British Soldiers and now everyone seems to be up in arms about 'too much patriotism'.

Legendz54
03-06-2012, 06:31 AM
I agree with the comment above
AC1 no one cared about killing Christians
AC2 and ACB no one cared about killing Italians
ACR no one cared about killing Turks and ottomans
AC3 everyone is jumping up and down over British soldiers

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 06:31 AM
What people don't seem to realize is that for the past few years we've been killing hundreds and hundreds of Syrians, Italians, and Ottomans yet no one complained.

And suddenly we got an Assassin fighting against some British Soldiers and now everyone seems to be up in arms about 'too much patriotism'.

I think it's more about the fact that the media for AC3 is showing signs that the Assassins will be on side of Americans and be biased in that sense. As it is a Revolutionary War, this subject is very different and much more sensitive than others because they have to make sure not to show favoritism of a side, aka patriotism. Also, in this case things weren't so black and white.

Assassins are always neutral in war and don't have war alliances with countries. Yet it seems that in AC3 the Assassin (Conner), will be fighting for America.

That is the main problem, not the killing of Redcoats.

Eziolala
03-06-2012, 06:38 AM
I think it's more about the fact that the media for AC3 is showing signs that the Assassins will be on side of Americans and be biased in that sense. As it is a Revolutionary War, this subject is very different and much more sensitive than others because they have to make sure not to show favoritism of a side, aka patriotism. Also, in this case things weren't so black and white.

Assassins are always neutral in war and don't have war alliances with countries. Yet it seems that in AC3 the Assassin (Conner), will be fighting for America.

That is the main problem, not the killing of Redcoats.

^ This.

The worries I have are that the game will be one-sided. However, after reading the GI article which says that Templars will be on both sides, I'm not too worried.

I think that OP is missing is that yes, while there are films which aim to make members of other countries look good, quite a lot of movies depict the US as the one and only hero, which is what concerned me for AC3. As I've said previously, my concerns are vitually non-existent now.

GeneralTrumbo
03-06-2012, 06:41 AM
I think Connor will kind of be on the side of Americans more-so than the British. It seems like he will be very close with George Washington. But, who knows? George Washington could always turn his back.

Radman500
03-06-2012, 06:44 AM
George Washington was a mysterious man... he was not perfect (he did have slaves) he was not the brightest man, he was not even the best general... but he was one of the best damm leaders the world has ever seen

Calvarok
03-06-2012, 06:48 AM
Technically, if we were fighting for america we wouldn't be looking at the battle from overhead, would we?

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 06:49 AM
The fact that Conner's village was destroyed by the Colonists yet is still fighting for them is the main problem for people in this situation.

shiroyukinohime
03-06-2012, 06:51 AM
*shrugs* It just seems like it's overdone because recent AAA games feature American soldiers fighting for their country. I mean, how many AAA games (apart from Assassin's Creed) can you list that feature patriotism from a different nationality?

And going back to the argument about no one complaining about the subject matter in the previous games - they didn't emphasize nationality and patriotism in the same way that a game about the American Revolution would. AC2 and ACB did not emphasize nationality (where's the patriotism in having an Italian assassin kill other Italians?). AC1 did, but it treated both cultures in a very fair way and introduced shades of grey (not to mention that the bad guys came from both Muslims and Christians). ACR, you can argue, did not emphasize nationality. Yeah you can say that we had an Italian character killing Ottomans and Turks, but no where did we see Ezio claiming to kill his targets because "I am Italian and my nationality is better than your nationality".

Of course, the devs have stated that not every loyalist character will be unpleasant, and not every patriot will be unpleasant. I am hopeful that they will have a balanced representation similar to what Christians/Muslims/Europeans/etc got in AC1.

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 06:54 AM
Technically, if we were fighting for america we wouldn't be looking at the battle from overhead, would we?

I have a theory about that part of the trailer. I think that's a missions in which you have to get to the Battlefield to stop the war but Conner gets there too late.

Radman500
03-06-2012, 06:57 AM
The fact that Conner's village was destroyed by the Colonists yet is still fighting for them is the main problem for people in this situation.

well what if his villiage was destroyed by the British?

CrazySN
03-06-2012, 07:01 AM
If anyone has a problem with the Assassins being on the American side, they should just check this interview:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/03/05/meet-the-new-creative-director-for-assassin-39-s-creed-iii.aspx

The American Revolution wasn't just about taking out the "tyrannical redcoats." It revolution was bigger than that. It sparked and influenced revolutions around the world like the French Revolution and the Mexican Revolution. It's clear why the Assassins would want to help the Americans, as they both share the ideals of freedom and having a say in their lives, while the British and the Templars share the idea of controlling other peoples lives. This is why it's so important for the Assassins to help the Americans win the war.

LordWolv
03-06-2012, 07:02 AM
I'm not worried about the game being patriotic, as long as it is historically accurate I will be fine with it. We all know America in those time was generally obsessed with itself, and so flags flying over everything will be ordinary. The thing I'm worried about is if they leave things out or add bits in; twisting history to make america look good. If they do this, for instance leaving out slavery, THEN I have a problem.

Moultonborough
03-06-2012, 07:10 AM
I think the main issue that people have with it being here in the US is twofold. One is that because of our "status"(don't go off on me) we(for the most part) are seen as the "world leader". As such a lot of movies, games, books etc. are set within the US. So for the Ubisoft team to add to that just puts it over the edge for some people, which I do understand. The second reason is because(so far) we have seen locations games have never gone to before, for them to use the US just seems lazy and cliche no matter what century it is in. I don't think that the issue is "Patriotism" but just more of the same. Just my two cents.

Legendz54
03-06-2012, 07:19 AM
I also heard someone say before that Connor should have shot the "shot heard around the world" or something like that

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 07:21 AM
well what if his villiage was destroyed by the British?
It would make more sense that he'd be supporting the colonists. This is similar as if Ezio's family was killed by the Templars and Ezio joined them.

HardRtihal
03-06-2012, 07:33 AM
First of all, I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about this plot based on the limited information we have right now. Lets all calm down a bit, at least in that regard, and wait and see if anything else comes out between now and October 30th that will give us more details about the plot.

Now back to the actual setting, patriotism DID NOT EXIST in America at this time. The only nationalism we could possibly see in America during this period was directed towards the British crown. We like to call those people Loyalists. Quite a few of them went to Canada following the Revolutionary War. We also have to remember that within the context of Desmond's story the only reason we are in this period is to find the next clue and take the next step towards Desmond's destiny, to save the world from apocalypse.

Now from a more realistic standpoint, we are viewing the Revolutionary War in the context of the 200 years that followed it. I think in order for anyone to truly enjoy this game, I think we are going to have to try and view this war and this period through the eyes of Conner. Otherwise we will find ourselves constantly sucked into this vortex of politics and international rivalry that isn't even relevant to the period.

Finally, I have a hard time believing that this team, that has so masterfully presented some of the most controversial and sensitive themes we've ever seen in the video game industry, would suddenly drop the ball and turn the biggest game in their studio's history into a massive propaganda spin. I had no idea that the Canadians and French were such big America fans.

shobhit7777777
03-06-2012, 07:34 AM
Patriotism is a concept of close-mindedness for people who are bound by the imaginary restrictions of man.

Just putting that out there.

What? Talk about close-mindedness.

Patriotism and love for fellow man-kind are not mutually exclusive. Tolerance of other cultures and nations goes hand in hand with being Patriotic and loving your homeland. Only fools associate patriotism with a superiority complex.

I am sorry that you do share similar feelings for your country.

@OP

Although I do not have any problems with patriotism in video games...American or otherwise...I would not like to see a neutral organisation like the Assassin Order ally themselves to a particular faction based on the country of their origin. It would seem out of character.

And I doubt that AC3 would give in to a one sided "America **** yeaaah!" representation. The Protagonist's origins are a major clue....he is part Native-American by ethnicity BUT Native American culturally...so he would mostly Identify himself with the Indians rather than the Americans or the British.

Moultonborough
03-06-2012, 07:35 AM
I also heard someone say before that Connor should have shot the "shot heard around the world" or something like that

I think that was me. I at least mentioned it. They could make it that he did due to the fact that is was never recorded or discovered who actually fired the shot. So, Ubisoft could say it was a Assassin and that is why no one has a idea since it was neither. A perfect place to insert a piece of AC "history".

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 07:36 AM
I also heard someone say before that Connor should have shot the "shot heard around the world" or something like that

I would love that, Ezio had similar roles in a few parts in history about unknown events. I hope they do it for Conner.

dxsxhxcx
03-06-2012, 07:40 AM
It would make more sense that he'd be supporting the colonists. This is similar as if Ezio's family was killed by the Templars and Ezio joined them.

it would make sense if he was like Ezio, who was moved by revenge...

Assassin_M
03-06-2012, 07:47 AM
Connor is neutral, he just happens to have a friend in Washington, so what ?
and Templars are on both sides, the English and the american side..
just like ACR when Manuel said before dying "Byzantine, ottoman... these are all facades.... in truth templars are all part of the same family, our dream is universal"
and the final shot of Connor in the trailer is absolute proof of his neutrality... he is just looking on at the ensuing battle from atop a mountain..

Moultonborough
03-06-2012, 07:49 AM
I thin he will end up in that battle and use it to his advantage to Assassinate someone. Maybe, be a deciding factor in it. But only time will know for sure.

Legendz54
03-06-2012, 07:50 AM
I think that was me. I at least mentioned it. They could make it that he did due to the fact that is was never recorded or discovered who actually fired the shot. So, Ubisoft could say it was a Assassin and that is why no one has a idea since it was neither. A perfect place to insert a piece of AC "history".


That would be so epic i just looked it up and it said that it was a standoff between British forces and local militia in Lexington maybe Connor was part of that militia

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 07:59 AM
What? Talk about close-mindedness.

Patriotism and love for fellow man-kind are not mutually exclusive. Tolerance of other cultures and nations goes hand in hand with being Patriotic and loving your homeland. Only fools associate patriotism with a superiority complex.
Patriotism:
"love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it"

Country:"A nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory."

Culture:
The arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.

A country is nothing more than an invisible barrier between people. Patriotism supports those barriers, and has nothing to do with other cultures.


am sorry that you do share similar feelings for your country.
.

Not sure what this means.

shobhit7777777
03-06-2012, 08:12 AM
Patriotism:
"love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it"

Country:"A nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory."

Culture:
The arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively. Patriotism CAN and IS part of certain national cultures. I'm Indian....and we are inherently patriotic....to jingoistic levels. So your last statement :

A country is nothing more than an invisible barrier between people. Patriotism supports those barriers, and has nothing to do with other cultures.



Not sure what this means.

Not sure if you understood my post. You consider Patriotism and Culture to be mutually exclusive, as if the love for one's country is directly responsible for raising "barriers" between humanity. Which is not the case. You can have a strong national identity and sense of pride without maintaining an exclusive, holier-than-thou attitude towards others...OR restricting your interactions within a certain community based on geographical backgrounds.

Since you do not share the same view on patriotism, I assumed that you would not be very patriotic towards your country. The reason why I felt sorry for you.

BTW, culture is also differentiated based on geographical boundaries....Countries. Patriotism is an intricate part of certain cultures. I'm Indian and we are inherently very patriotic, sometimes to jingoistic levels. Your last statement:

Patriotism supports those barriers, and has nothing to do with other cultures.
Is simply wrong. Patriotism is part of culture. And a strong sense of it does not make an individual ignorant or opposed to other cultures.

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 08:17 AM
Ah okay. Well at this point it's beliefs vs beliefs so best leave it at that.

shobhit7777777
03-06-2012, 08:20 AM
Ah okay. Well at this points it's beliefs vs beliefs so best leave it at that.

fair enough

pirate1802
03-06-2012, 08:28 AM
and the final shot of Connor in the trailer is absolute proof of his neutrality... he is just looking on at the ensuing battle from atop a mountain..

This. The way he looks out dispassionately as the battle rages tells me he is attached to neither side, although he may help the revolutionaries out of convenience.

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 09:13 AM
This. The way he looks out dispassionately as the battle rages tells me he is attached to neither side, although he may help the revolutionaries out of convenience.

I think he meant to stop it from happening but was too late.

jmk1999
03-06-2012, 09:46 AM
don't make me close another thread... keep it civil and think before you post. warnings have been issued to everyone and i won't hesitate to ban trolls and bigots. if you get banned, don't try to dispute it... you already know why.

pirate1802
03-06-2012, 10:22 AM
I think he meant to stop it from happening but was too late.

Either way he can't be constructed as an "American hero" can he?

Jamison_J_B
03-06-2012, 10:32 AM
We already know that everyone outside of the United States, some in the United States, utterly hate Americans with a unbridled passion. Can we just drop this anti crap... it's starting to piss me off.

LightRey
03-06-2012, 10:34 AM
I think the main issue most people who dislike it have is that this might "fool" Americans into thinking that the world loves them and that the USA is the greatest nation in the world, etc. I'm not trying to sound like a hater or anything, but aside from during (or rather right after) the last presidential elections, the popularity of the USA has been on a (steep) decline, especially since the election of (the now former) President George W. Bush. I think many are simply worried that this will only worsen the American attitude towards the world.

However, I am not so worried. From what I've seen in the past, especially in ACR, Ubisoft has always done an excellent job at showing the good and the bad of both sides of featured conflicts. Considering that during the American Revolution the Americans fought for ideals that I think we all cherish and if anything I think this game will inspire Americans to review their current attitude towards the rest of the world.

tjbyrum1
03-06-2012, 02:20 PM
Because the Assassins fight for 'freedom' in a way and not to mention Connor himself wants to fight against Tyranny, it would make a LOT of sense to help the Americans before the British.

The Americans want freedom, which correlates with the Assassins.
The British can be viewed as tyrants, which Connor wants to fight against.

So it makes sense Connor would help the Americans before the British.

Just saying.

Moryarity
03-06-2012, 02:43 PM
I think the main issue most people who dislike it have is that this might "fool" Americans into thinking that the world loves them and that the USA is the greatest nation in the world, etc. I'm not trying to sound like a hater or anything, but aside from during (or rather right after) the last presidential elections, the popularity of the USA has been on a (steep) decline, especially since the election of (the now former) President George W. Bush. I think many are simply worried that this will only worsen the American attitude towards the world.


/sign

You already see it in this thread: A lot of the answers argument with "We are the leaders of the world, we inspired the rest of the world to fight for freedom..without us the world would be set back.."

It is this attitude that worries people outside the US. US often considers itself as "Leader of the world"...but that is not always the conception of people outside the US..some of those people around the world consider US foreign politics to be a danger.

There have been people fighting for freedom before the American independence wars and there have been people to fight for it after.

People fighting for "freedom", but only for themselves, because, well to have slaves is ok,,,they are not considered human after all in this period of time...(historically speaking)

There is so much black and white in this setting and I guess people fear, that the fractions will be stylized into a certain image. Also for the first time, the cover is using an actual political symbol, the flag of US at those times..very dominantly and dramatically placed in the center of the picture..like in a cheesy war movie..you see the hero of the game standing under the wind-blown flag ..This image is just transporting a certain "feeling"..maybe patriotic for the US, but a little over dramatic for the rest of the world. ;)


I think one issue is that the historic timeline is approaching our modern time line, so political issues of today influence peoples conception of the setting more. In AC1 it was a setting of knights and conquests, which does not affect political issues of today. In AC2 etc is were Italian city states..a concept, which is no longer remotely present in todays political structure there, so there was also no "political connection" to anything today.
With the setting being a relatively recent time in US history, I think people have a stronger personal feeling about the history incidents than with the other settings.

We will see how the overall story telling manages to transport the issue and there is plenty of time to discuss this once more of the story has been revealed.

It is then, when we will see, if AC manages to keep the status quo achieved so far and remains in a certain gray area not taking sides.

So we wait and then we will see :D

FrankieSatt
03-06-2012, 02:47 PM
don't make me close another thread... keep it civil and think before you post. warnings have been issued to everyone and i won't hesitate to ban trolls and bigots. if you get banned, don't try to dispute it... you already know why.

All threads like this need to be closed. I would PM you to discuss this but all I get is a message saying that your PM's are full.

Bottom line is that what is being discussed has NOTHING to do with the game and should not be allowed.

Moryarity
03-06-2012, 02:57 PM
All threads like this need to be closed. I would PM you to discuss this but all I get is a message saying that your PM's are full.

Bottom line is that what is being discussed has NOTHING to do with the game and should not be allowed.

They are very closeyl related to the story-telling and possible content of the game.

Does not the first amendment guarantuee freedom of speech ;)

LightRey
03-06-2012, 02:59 PM
They are very closeyl related to the story-telling and possible content of the game.

Does not the first amendment guarantuee freedom of speech ;)

Be that as it may, if a discussion involves politics and/or religion it is against forum rules.

FrankieSatt
03-06-2012, 02:59 PM
They are very closeyl related to the story-telling and possible content of the game.

Does not the first amendment guarantuee freedom of speech ;)

Yeah, there are other places to discuss that. A message board for a video game is not that place. All I see is constant America Bashing and I'm sick and tired of it.

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2012, 03:09 PM
They are very closeyl related to the story-telling and possible content of the game.

Does not the first amendment guarantuee freedom of speech ;)
Only in America :P

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 03:12 PM
Either way he can't be constructed as an "American hero" can he?

That was irrelevant to the thread, I just think that he is meant to stop the battle from happening and is too late. Most of my contribution to this thread is playing Devil's Advocate anyways. I trust Ubisoft with this, they know what they are doing.

Goxxi
03-06-2012, 03:17 PM
The bad is fact that USA is bulit on genocide, killing and exploations of others.

And also the bad is a fact that America take-over the role which had nazi Germany in 30's and 40's.

Today the American foreign policy is based on occupation , exploatation and aggression and from the end of WW2 untill now USA has performed a directly occupation and aggression on dozens of coutries (Vietnam, Lybia , Iraq, Yugoslavia Panama, Nicuaragua, Afganistan, Somalia..........etc) and everywhere where they show up It remains only a chaos, destruction , poverty and death.

When I see the American flag I feel similar like I saw the swastika.

Maybe people in America are not aware of that but entire world is sick and tired of them and their tyrrany.

Also fact is that USA is a 1st country in the world by almost all negative aspects like :


- number of inmates

- racism

- drug addicts

- percent of teenage pregnancies and abortions and number of kids from broken families or kids who lives without one or both parents.

- diversity beetwen poor and rich people

- low level of general education ( for example good part of Americans can't show where is Africa or Europe on the world map)

- also USA is today one of the rarely countries on the world where still exists a death penalty (like in Middle Age)

Moryarity
03-06-2012, 03:22 PM
Be that as it may, if a discussion involves politics and/or religion it is against forum rules.


Yeah, there are other places to discuss that. A message board for a video game is not that place.

The whole AC franchise deals with issues of politics and religion. It includes christians and moslems, knights crusaders, ottoman empire, italian city states, historical figures closely involved in political schemes.

So there is no discussion at all, if all topics related to the story of AC can not be discussed....



All I see is constant America Bashing and I'm sick and tired of it.

Uttering concern regarding the story line and story telling of a game is not the same as "bashing" a country. A certain setting has been chosen and people are just discussing the influence that this decision may have on the story telling of the game.
I could also argument that constantly repeating how wonderful and inspiring and great ones own nation is, is "bashing of all other countries", but the would be a ridiculous argument.

So keep it to the story-elements of the game.

We do not know much about that aspect yet, so we will need to wait for further information on the story itself.


@goxxi: The actual political situation has nothing to do with the game setting. Following this argument will only get the thread closed and that is not in the interest of people who want to discuss this in context of the game.


But you just proved what I said earlier: As the timeline of the game story advances today, people take more actual political cir****tances into account, when looking at the setting.

brick177
03-06-2012, 03:27 PM
Really? Another thread on this? Why don't we all stop assuming things and wait for the official details? Nothing productive comes out of these conversations.

Rycay
03-06-2012, 03:53 PM
The bad is fact that USA is bulit on genocide, killing and exploations of others.

And also the bad is a fact that America take-over the role which had nazi Germany in 30's and 40's.

Today the American foreign policy is based on occupation , exploatation and aggression and from the end of WW2 untill now USA has performed a directly occupation and aggression on dozens of coutries (Vietnam, Lybia , Iraq, Yugoslavia Panama, Nicuaragua, Afganistan, Somalia..........etc) and everywhere where they show up It remains only a chaos, destruction , poverty and death.

When I see the American flag I feel similar like I saw the swastika.

Maybe people in America are not aware of that but entire world is sick and tired of them and their tyrrany.

Also fact is that USA is a 1st country in the world by almost all negative aspects like:


- number of inmates

- racism

- drug addicts

- percent of teenage pregnancies and abortions and number of kids from broken families or kids who lives without one or both parents.

- diversity beetwen poor and rich people

- low level of general education ( for example good part of Americans can't show where is Africa or Europe on the world map)

- also USA is today one of the rarely countries on the world where still exists a death penalty (like in Middle Age)

Do you live in America? This insults me. :(

LadyGahan2010
03-06-2012, 03:58 PM
Do you live in America? This insults me. :(

I spent half my life in European country and half in USA. I think the question that needs to be answered is whether YOU ever lived somewhere else and was not subject to one sided propaganda only.


As far as the topic I also trust Ubi being Canadian in the first place has a different point of view and different sensitivity and will not fail as far as pro or anti American bias of our new ancestor.

LightRey
03-06-2012, 04:01 PM
The whole AC franchise deals with issues of politics and religion. It includes christians and moslems, knights crusaders, ottoman empire, italian city states, historical figures closely involved in political schemes.

So there is no discussion at all, if all topics related to the story of AC can not be discussed....


That's nonsense. You can still discuss politics and religion within the context of the game, just not beyond that. It's not allowed to discuss whether or not a religious or political view is "good" or "bad", but it is allowed to analyze it and discuss its (theoretical) impact on the story.

Rycay
03-06-2012, 04:17 PM
I spent half my life in European country and half in USA. I think the question that needs to be answered is whether YOU ever lived somewhere else and was not subject to one sided propaganda only.


As far as the topic I also trust Ubi being Canadian in the first place has a different point of view and different sensitivity and will not fail as far as pro or anti American bias of our new ancestor.

I have never lived anywhere else other than where I live now because I can not afford to live anywhere else. As for your second comment, I totally agree. :)

pirate1802
03-06-2012, 04:17 PM
LOL your sig Lightrey xD

LightRey
03-06-2012, 04:17 PM
LOL your sig Lightrey xD

xD
You noticed!

pirate1802
03-06-2012, 04:24 PM
xD
You noticed!

I'm doing some research on who actually said it :P

LightRey
03-06-2012, 04:26 PM
I'm doing some research on who actually said it :P

K, let me know if you find out anything. :P

UrDeviant1
03-06-2012, 04:38 PM
I'm British, I have no problem with killing Redcoats, It Is a game after all. Besides, I'm sure they'll be a few Bluecoats who need seeing to also. I don't have a massive problem with patriotism as long as It's not thrown at me In large amounts. I'v got no problem admitting that Britain lost the revolution, nor do I have a problem admitting that I'm proud of the British Empire for pretty much changing the world.

kriegerdesgottes
03-06-2012, 04:39 PM
I just don't think it's a big deal. I know a lot of foreigners are making a big deal out of it but they have made it very clear in the week or two that we have known anything about this game that Connor isn't Mel Gibson from the patriot and this game emphasizes his fight with the TEMPLARS while the Revolution is going on. He isn't necessarily pro either side. It is true that Washington among others sent orders to destroy the Mohawk and Iraquois settlements in the area because they were siding with the British so it's not as simple as oh Connor just totally sides with the Colonials and therefore it's a pro American game. It's just not the case at all.

Rycay
03-06-2012, 04:44 PM
I'm British, I have no problem with killing Redcoats, It Is a game after all. Besides, I'm sure they'll be a few Bluecoats who need seeing to also. I don't have a massive problem with patriotism as long as It's not thrown at me In large amounts. I'v got no problem admitting that Britain lost the revolution, nor do I have a problem admitting that I'm proud of the British Empire for pretty much changing the world.

I think I posted in another thread (can't remember which one) that if it's true that Templars are on both sides of the conflict then we'll probably be killing an equal amount of both.

freddie_1897
03-06-2012, 04:46 PM
Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy​

LightRey
03-06-2012, 04:49 PM
Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy​

Dat it dose. Dat it dose...

The13Doctors
03-06-2012, 05:03 PM
K, let me know if you find out anything. :P

Took me a 10 second Google search.


‘The two most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.’
— Harlan Elison

Assassin_M
03-06-2012, 05:11 PM
Ubisoft got us all talking about everything BUT the new game engine..
for shame..for shame..

brick177
03-06-2012, 05:24 PM
Ubisoft got us all talking about everything BUT the new game engine..
for shame..for shame..

This.

LightRey
03-06-2012, 05:26 PM
Took me a 10 second Google search.


‘The two most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.’
— Harlan Elison

K, I'll edit my sig accordingly.

jmk1999
03-06-2012, 05:29 PM
Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy​
i'd say this is probably the best thing said thus far... and it's come from a fairly new member on the forum. the idea is, there's nothing wrong with patriotism. in fact, in most countries, acts of treason are seen as one of, if not the worst crime one can commit. the reason for this is because no one country wants to destroy itself or fail its people and if the reason for such an incident occurs because of someone within that particularly country... well, that's the worst possible thing one can do. if you think about it, it's like having a best friend who betrays. you take pride in being best friends with someone, but if they betrayed and cause great amounts of harm to you it hurts all the greater than it would if someone you didn't know did the same thing. the point being, the idea of patriotism is to have enough pride in one's own country so as not to wish harm upon it... the willingness to fight and stand up for what YOU believe is right, so long as you feel it is in line with your country's best interests. granted, some people may take the idea of "patriotism" to a greater extent than should be, thus causing harm to someone else. it's these sorta acts that make the idea of "patriotism" something of a taboo. let's not think into anymore than should be. there's nothing wrong with pride in one's country. none of us on this forum, especially ubisoft as a company, wants you to come to harm... so shouldn't the same be said for their reasons for making such a game? if it's bad, they wouldn't have done it. is it bad? probably not. get over it. hopefully this makes some sorta sense and i'm not just rambling.

Assassin_M
03-06-2012, 05:32 PM
i'd say this is probably the best thing said thus far... and it's come from a fairly new member on the forum. the idea is, there's nothing wrong with patriotism. in fact, in most countries, acts of treason are seen as one of, if not the worst crime one can commit. the reason for this is because no one country wants to destroy itself or fail its people and if the reason for such an incident occurs because of someone within that particularly country... well, that's the worst possible thing one can do. if you think about it, it's like having a best friend who betrays. you take pride in being best friends with someone, but if they betrayed and cause great amounts of harm to you it hurts all the greater than it would if someone you didn't know did the same thing. the point being, the idea of patriotism is to have enough pride in one's own country so as not to wish harm upon it... the willingness to fight and stand up for what YOU believe is right, so long as you feel it is in line with your country's best interests. granted, some people may take the idea of "patriotism" to a greater extent than should be, thus causing harm to someone else. it's these sorta acts that make the idea of "patriotism" something of a taboo. let's not think into anymore than should be. there's nothing wrong with pride in one's country. none of us on this forum, especially ubisoft as a company, wants you to come to harm... so shouldn't the same be said for their reasons for making such a game? if it's bad, they wouldn't have done it. is it bad? probably not. get over it. hopefully this makes some sorta sense and i'm not just rambling.
Wise words can appear as rambling in the eyes of an idiot, unfortunately..

freddie_1897
03-06-2012, 05:34 PM
i'd say this is probably the best thing said thus far... and it's come from a fairly new member on the forum. the idea is, there's nothing wrong with patriotism. in fact, in most countries, acts of treason are seen as one of, if not the worst crime one can commit. the reason for this is because no one country wants to destroy itself or fail its people and if the reason for such an incident occurs because of someone within that particularly country... well, that's the worst possible thing one can do. if you think about it, it's like having a best friend who betrays. you take pride in being best friends with someone, but if they betrayed and cause great amounts of harm to you it hurts all the greater than it would if someone you didn't know did the same thing. the point being, the idea of patriotism is to have enough pride in one's own country so as not to wish harm upon it... the willingness to fight and stand up for what YOU believe is right, so long as you feel it is in line with your country's best interests. granted, some people may take the idea of "patriotism" to a greater extent than should be, thus causing harm to someone else. it's these sorta acts that make the idea of "patriotism" something of a taboo. let's not think into anymore than should be. there's nothing wrong with pride in one's country. none of us on this forum, especially ubisoft as a company, wants you to come to harm... so shouldn't the same be said for their reasons for making such a game? if it's bad, they wouldn't have done it. is it bad? probably not. get over it. hopefully this makes some sorta sense and i'm not just rambling.
exactly! patriotism is when you put the love of your fellow citizens before anything else, nationalism is when you put your hate of every other person before anything else!

SixKeys
03-06-2012, 05:46 PM
exactly! patriotism is when you put the love of your fellow citizens before anything else, nationalism is when you put your hate of every other person before anything else!

I would argue that those equate to pretty much the same thing. If patriotism is defined as putting the love of your fellow citizens above all else, then it's a pretty scary definition indeed. I don't know most of my fellow citizens. Many of them are undoubtedly good people. Many are undoubtedly rotten as hell. I wouldn't put any of them above my family and friends, for example. Just because someone happens to be born in my country doesn't mean I owe any loyalty to them whatsoever. And if my government does something that violates my rights as a citizen (as all governments inevitably do at one point or another), I don't owe them my loyalty or love either. I can respect and uphold certain ideals that the society I currently live in supports, I can feel kinship to people who speak the same language as I do and share common values and cultural heritage as me. But I would never put the love of my fellow citizens above all else just because they happen to be my fellow citizens. I value humans above all, be they from my country or somewhere else, as long as we share some sort of common ideals and goals. When you start putting your own countrymen above everyone else, you automatically start shunning all outsiders.

freddie_1897
03-06-2012, 05:53 PM
I would argue that those equate to pretty much the same thing. If patriotism is defined as putting the love of your fellow citizens above all else, then it's a pretty scary definition indeed. I don't know most of my fellow citizens. Many of them are undoubtedly good people. Many are undoubtedly rotten as hell. I wouldn't put any of them above my family and friends, for example. Just because someone happens to be born in my country doesn't mean I owe any loyalty to them whatsoever. And if my government does something that violates my rights as a citizen (as all governments inevitably do at one point or another), I don't owe them my loyalty or love either. I can respect and uphold certain ideals that the society I currently live in supports, I can feel kinship to people who speak the same language as I do and share common values and cultural heritage as me. But I would never put the love of my fellow citizens above all else just because they happen to be my fellow citizens. I value humans above all, be they from my country or somewhere else, as long as we share some sort of common ideals and goals. When you start putting your own countrymen above everyone else, you automatically start shunning all outsiders.
maybe your right, or maybe you are not a patriot. not that thats a bad thing in any way

SixKeys
03-06-2012, 06:00 PM
maybe your right, or maybe you are not a patriot. not that thats a bad thing in any way

No, I don't consider myself a patriot if the definition of patriotism is putting your own country above all else. I agree with a comment someone made earlier in the thread: countries are just communities or tribes divided by invisible lines. All have developed in different ways, none of them is superior to all others as each system has its faults.

freddie_1897
03-06-2012, 06:02 PM
No, I don't consider myself a patriot if the definition of patriotism is putting your own country above all else. I agree with a comment someone made earlier in the thread: countries are just communities or tribes divided by invisible lines. All have developed in different ways, none of them is superior to all others as each system has its faults.
you sir, put on a good argument, and i respect that

notafanboy
03-06-2012, 06:08 PM
First of all, I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about this plot based on the limited information we have right now. Lets all calm down a bit, at least in that regard, and wait and see if anything else comes out between now and October 30th that will give us more details about the plot.

Now back to the actual setting, patriotism DID NOT EXIST in America at this time. The only nationalism we could possibly see in America during this period was directed towards the British crown. We like to call those people Loyalists. Quite a few of them went to Canada following the Revolutionary War. We also have to remember that within the context of Desmond's story the only reason we are in this period is to find the next clue and take the next step towards Desmond's destiny, to save the world from apocalypse.

Now from a more realistic standpoint, we are viewing the Revolutionary War in the context of the 200 years that followed it. I think in order for anyone to truly enjoy this game, I think we are going to have to try and view this war and this period through the eyes of Conner. Otherwise we will find ourselves constantly sucked into this vortex of politics and international rivalry that isn't even relevant to the period.

Finally, I have a hard time believing that this team, that has so masterfully presented some of the most controversial and sensitive themes we've ever seen in the video game industry, would suddenly drop the ball and turn the biggest game in their studio's history into a massive propaganda spin..

this is what i have been thinking !, i just haven´t been able word it out as well

lfc908
03-06-2012, 06:10 PM
I'm English and it isn't the fact of killing British soldiers that bothers me whatsoever (I mean you've got to feel sorry for the Germans and Russians to date) I just hope that patriotism isn't thrown about. If I see excessive amounts of **** YEAH AMERICA PWN THE BRITISH LIBERTY FREEDOM and all that other stuff then I'm going to be pissed off. It' s a game after all and not a propaganda tool

jmk1999
03-06-2012, 06:17 PM
you guys need to get past your pre-conceived notions of others. if anything, this forum and its diversity has proven that not all people are bad if they're from a different country... be it america, middle east, europe, etc. our different views have shown there is a glimmer of intelligence in all reaches of the world, just as there is ignorance and prejudice. take this as learning from one another and leave the conversations with a greater sense of understanding. just because you don't agree with someone, doesn't mean you should think any less of them. i would hope we've gotten past such acts of prejudice and hatred, at least on this forum.

We as a society have not learned to disagree without being violently disagreeable.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. (after the assassination of Malcolm X)

freddie_1897
03-06-2012, 06:18 PM
I'm English and it isn't the fact of killing British soldiers that bothers me whatsoever (I mean you've got to feel sorry for the Germans and Russians to date) I just hope that patriotism isn't thrown about. If I see excessive amounts of **** YEAH AMERICA PWN THE BRITISH LIBERTY FREEDOM and all that other stuff then I'm going to be pissed off. It' s a game after all and not a propaganda tool
yeah, that would be too much, i have no problem with the occasional character doing that, but if it gets too out of hand it would be pretty annoying

Steww-
03-06-2012, 06:19 PM
I trust Ubisoft entirely when it comes to matters like this.

freddie_1897
03-06-2012, 06:21 PM
Guys the lead designer is australian, i think we're safe!

Rycay
03-06-2012, 06:27 PM
I think Ubisoft has figured out by now that this is a little controversial, but they haven't disappointed me yet with any of the AC games. I'm in agreement with some of the people here: as long as they don't flaunt America (except in small measures to the point where it isn't annoying) then I'm good.

jmk1999
03-06-2012, 06:33 PM
the entire series has been controversial. just because they weren't flaunting the american flag in the past doesn't mean they weren't walking on eggshells. for example, putting a muslim from the middle east in a lead role (even killing christians and denouncing the church) so shortly after 9-11 is a pretty touchy subject. so, yeah... take it as you will. i'm sure they know what they're doing. as i've said before, it's just a game set in a world of historical and present day fiction. it is in no means meant to reflect the views of a chosen few, but rather to provide enjoyment as well as a small (but somewhat unreliable) bit of historical education. it should be you as the individual to walk away from it with a desire to research the truth rather than rely upon what you have seen in a work of fiction... assuming you wish to argue such matters with any shred of credibility.

freddie_1897
03-06-2012, 06:33 PM
A real patriot is the fellow who gets a parking ticket and rejoices that the system works

jmk1999
03-06-2012, 06:36 PM
right......:rolleyes:

UrDeviant1
03-06-2012, 06:36 PM
God bless you all! Hellyeahaluya!

freddie_1897
03-06-2012, 07:24 PM
patriotism isn't that bad, its just showing dedication to your country, but some people show too much dedication

crash3
03-06-2012, 07:29 PM
Im amazed this thread is even up, Im british and I dont give one about who is good or bad, at the end of the day we're fighting animated characters and also the war is between templars and assassins not different nations. I think what some people are concerned about is that after 4 fantastic games that explored places and events in history that not everyone knows everything about, the series finale ultimately ends up in America which some people could find disappointing seeming that so many films and games are american based so whatever variety we experienced before in terms of countries is now gone if you get me

Xenoxin
03-06-2012, 07:30 PM
nvm

EnXess
03-06-2012, 07:41 PM
I think people miss the point about killing person 'x' here, whether it be British, Christian, whatever.

Many people (for some reason) don't seem to understand the issues people have here. During AC we were not 'killing Christians' we were killing Christians, Muslims and Jews. Assassins had no side or preference and did only what the creed instructs them to do. In ACII we fought Italians only because there were Italians, it's the same with ACR. In this game the Assassins seem to have a 'side' and that just feels wrong. I'm sure Americans are very excited they get to fight for something they've been told was the best thing ever to happen but many of them fail to realise that this wasn't some noble war of freedom and righteousness vs evil tyrannical forces, it was about greed. The British wanted land and power and the Colonists wanted land and power. Many of us understand history and how it actually happened and thus to us the Assassins being '**** YEAH! AMURCA!' makes absolutely no sense.

Saar Ben Kiki
03-06-2012, 08:07 PM
im an israeli and i find myself amreican patriotic, as a non american.
why people should hate them? america has done and affected much of our world and this revolution began its history pretty much.
you guys should consider that in this times human rights and understanding were still kinda barbaric (in my opinion) and best example is that the holocaust occured two centuries later (!!) and i think that the holocaust was the changing point of humanity towards human rights..
i also just read about it, it was ALL europeans who came to the new world who *****ered natives, not just americans but english dutch french and spanish.
except for that many natives died because of theyr lack of immunity for 'old world\ diseases...

people know this is unacceptable in our world, in theirs it sadly was :[
i dont justify it but i dont find america bad in anyway, and this is unrelated to my own image and individualism beign an israeli (please dont open an offtopic disscusion on that, too much to debate on just doesnt fit here)

and our assassin is supposedly of native and english origins but neither of cultures and he 'fights for justice' so by his motto we will see him aiding both natives and english and helping americans achieve freedom by solving the conflict (or starting it perhaps?)


gahh sorry for my writing im too lazy to correct 'em words -.-

albertwesker22
03-06-2012, 08:14 PM
im an israeli and i find myself amreican patriotic, as a non american.
why people should hate them? america has done and affected much of our world and this revolution began its history pretty much.
you guys should consider that in this times human rights and understanding were still kinda barbaric (in my opinion) and best example is that the holocaust occured two centuries later (!!) and i think that the holocaust was the changing point of humanity towards human rights..
i also just read about it, it was ALL europeans who came to the new world who *****ered natives, not just americans but english dutch french and spanish.
except for that many natives died because of theyr lack of immunity for 'old world\ diseases...

people know this is unacceptable in our world, in theirs it sadly was :[
i dont justify it but i dont find america bad in anyway, and this is unrelated to my own image and individualism beign an israeli (please dont open an offtopic disscusion on that, too much to debate on just doesnt fit here)

and our assassin is supposedly of native and english origins but neither of cultures and he 'fights for justice' so by his motto we will see him aiding both natives and english and helping americans achieve freedom by solving the conflict (or starting it perhaps?)


gahh sorry for my writing im too lazy to correct 'em words -.-

An Israeli who likes America? Who'd have thought it ;)

Seriously though, you are getting off topic.

UrDeviant1
03-06-2012, 08:16 PM
im an israeli and i find myself amreican patriotic, as a non american.
why people should hate them? america has done and affected much of our world and this revolution began its history pretty much.
you guys should consider that in this times human rights and understanding were still kinda barbaric (in my opinion) and best example is that the holocaust occured two centuries later (!!) and i think that the holocaust was the changing point of humanity towards human rights..
i also just read about it, it was ALL europeans who came to the new world who *****ered natives, not just americans but english dutch french and spanish.
except for that many natives died because of theyr lack of immunity for 'old world\ diseases...

people know this is unacceptable in our world, in theirs it sadly was :[
i dont justify it but i dont find america bad in anyway, and this is unrelated to my own image and individualism beign an israeli (please dont open an offtopic disscusion on that, too much to debate on just doesnt fit here)

and our assassin is supposedly of native and english origins but neither of cultures and he 'fights for justice' so by his motto we will see him aiding both natives and english and helping americans achieve freedom by solving the conflict (or starting it perhaps?)


gahh sorry for my writing im too lazy to correct 'em words -.-

Why do you feel patriotic to America? I'm Interested to know.

EnXess
03-06-2012, 08:26 PM
im an israeli and i find myself amreican patriotic, as a non american.
why people should hate them? america has done and affected much of our world and this revolution began its history pretty much.
you guys should consider that in this times human rights and understanding were still kinda barbaric (in my opinion) and best example is that the holocaust occured two centuries later (!!) and i think that the holocaust was the changing point of humanity towards human rights..
i also just read about it, it was ALL europeans who came to the new world who *****ered natives, not just americans but english dutch french and spanish.
except for that many natives died because of theyr lack of immunity for 'old world\ diseases...

people know this is unacceptable in our world, in theirs it sadly was :[
i dont justify it but i dont find america bad in anyway, and this is unrelated to my own image and individualism beign an israeli (please dont open an offtopic disscusion on that, too much to debate on just doesnt fit here)

and our assassin is supposedly of native and english origins but neither of cultures and he 'fights for justice' so by his motto we will see him aiding both natives and english and helping americans achieve freedom by solving the conflict (or starting it perhaps?)


gahh sorry for my writing im too lazy to correct 'em words -.-
"I like America but give no reasons why!"

The holocaust didn't really change anything as far as human rights went because, well, everybody else (bar the Germans) thought it was horrific. Nobody was shown that it was wrong, we already knew it was wrong. Not that America or the UK can talk, America locked up every person of Japanese descent (even American-born Japanese) and the UK locked up Germans living in the UK.

As for the slaughter of natives, yes it was all the settlers and in those days there were no Americans. The *****er of natives was wrong, there is no debate to be had here. Europeans walked into their country and slaughtered them, that is never right.

I still think the Assassins is using and will eventually betray the Colonists.

Saar Ben Kiki
03-06-2012, 08:36 PM
woot too many responses, my clear (or unclear) point is that human rights were nothing at this time and thats how humanity sadly works, we only fix ourselves after we do the wrong moves, sort of like an evolution of mentality haha

and i like america thats kinda obvious but not my reason that israel/israelis like america (leaders' interests and all in all historical cooperation in science and military etc) but thats kinda off topic so ill conclude that as a person i got a western mentality and fully support the american cause against terrorism and except for that as an individual i just have that same qualities as any other american.

just my comment - i like the american setting and main reasons are:
- its such a refreshing approach for AC, with new architecture and snow all that
- we get english accent back ! (with additional weird native accent), i just loved the accent from ac1 and think of it like me - ac in french revolution would such imagine french accent in english.. eww just eww and remember how it was in acb with that french boss in one of the seuqences of bart'olomeo
- george washington seems like he'll be an epic character with spiritual speeches that'll affect connors behaviour.
only con is that we wont get many buildings and diversity of origin... but heck there were big christian churches over there like always

---- just to clear it up :
the countries i like the most are america the uk and israel (obviously) so i dont take it like others who think ac3 will represent british as bad and americans as heroes, i actually dont care and i think that british are one of the hottest girls more than americans.

edit: oh and also i got many american relatives (jews you knew it)

Assassin_M
03-06-2012, 08:41 PM
I like the american Setting not because I love America, but Because I appreciate a new,fresh setting, never before seen..
The revolution, The frontier, The Characters, The History, The New gameplay features etc.. are the only reasons I appreciate having America in a setting for AC III..
Not more and not less..
and when you say I hate America in a Video game forum, say I hate it because its bland and the characters are not interesting..
Not because Washington killed my parents, or because Americans think they`re awesome..
This is a video game not Politics..

brick177
03-06-2012, 08:47 PM
My parents are still alive, so I got no beef with Washington. He best stay away from them though!

Assassin_M
03-06-2012, 08:49 PM
My parents are still alive, so I got no beef with Washington. He best stay away from them though!
A comedian..
Did you atleast get my point ?

brick177
03-06-2012, 08:55 PM
I did. Just tired of the arguing over speculation. Nothing against you, your's was just the last post before I posted so I went with it. :)

Saar Ben Kiki
03-06-2012, 08:56 PM
hey there egyptian guy,
well its quie obvious u wouldnt think like me because israelis and egyptians are on two different edges.
but i like the setting for your reasons too, didnt say just because i appreciate the specific country and this whole subject kinda brings on politics so sorry for that

Assassin_M
03-06-2012, 09:03 PM
hey there egyptian guy,
well its quie obvious u wouldnt think like me because israelis and egyptians are on two different edges.
but i like the setting for your reasons too, didnt say just because i appreciate the specific country and this whole subject kinda brings on politics so sorry for that
First, I dont like to be pointed out or segregated as "Egyptian guy"
Second, I wont start a war here about the phrase "think like me" so check your PMs
and third, I`v nothing against you in particular, my country had a war with yours 40 years ago, doesnt mean I hate you..

shobhit7777777
03-06-2012, 09:28 PM
, my country had a war with yours 40 years ago, doesnt mean I hate you..

BHWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

It's not a war if one side gets totally pummelled...more like a 'Rout-fest'

Ok..sorry...but I couldn't resist that jab. I apologise. But seriously though..don't attack Israel.

Assassin_M
03-06-2012, 09:32 PM
BHWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

It's not a war if one side gets totally pummelled...more like a 'Rout-fest'

Ok..sorry...but I couldn't resist that jab. I apologise. But seriously though..don't attack Israel.
Who are you exactly ?
does this concern you in anyway ?
and you better watch your tone.. I attacked no one

UrDeviant1
03-06-2012, 09:40 PM
This Is all getting a bit heated, lets keep It light.

Saar Ben Kiki
03-06-2012, 09:44 PM
lol i was playing mass effect 3 while u were arguing and i think the egyptian israeli ties are quite cold these days so i dont see much love between the two states and yea that war was the our strongest, perhaps best victory in history.
anyway i wont point you out if thats disturbing you, we should get back to ac3 stuff talks.

EnXess
03-06-2012, 09:47 PM
just my comment - i like the american setting and main reasons are:
- its such a refreshing approach for AC, with new architecture and snow all that
- we get english accent back ! (with additional weird native accent), i just loved the accent from ac1 and think of it like me - ac in french revolution would such imagine french accent in english.. eww just eww and remember how it was in acb with that french boss in one of the seuqences of bart'olomeo
- george washington seems like he'll be an epic character with spiritual speeches that'll affect connors behaviour.
only con is that we wont get many buildings and diversity of origin... but heck there were big christian churches over there like always

---- just to clear it up :
the countries i like the most are america the uk and israel (obviously) so i dont take it like others who think ac3 will represent british as bad and americans as heroes, i actually dont care and i think that british are one of the hottest girls more than americans.

edit: oh and also i got many american relatives (jews you knew it)
1) Yes, the new setting is awesome. All three of the last games felt really familiar to me and I'm sure this will blow me away
2) Well, being English I guess I can't complain on having English accents in the game :P
3) I hope he's very smart and philosophical actually but I also hope he screws Connor over.

Saar Ben Kiki
03-06-2012, 09:52 PM
**** u i love british girls and the accent is my biggest turn on lol
and nahh i think connor will be 'his loyal advisor' because its a core relationship, i think washington will have to deal with hard decisions with connor's help

albertwesker22
03-06-2012, 09:54 PM
lol i was playing mass effect 3 while u were arguing and i think the egyptian israeli ties are quite cold these days so i dont see much love between the two states and yea that war was the our strongest, perhaps best victory in history.
anyway i wont point you out if thats disturbing you, we should get back to ac3 stuff talks.

Dude, stop talking about war. (Other than the Revolution of course)

freddie_1897
03-06-2012, 09:55 PM
we do not consider patriotism desirable if it contradicts civilised behaviour. i for one, do not have a country to fight for because my country is the earth, and i am a proud, patriotic citizen of the world.

albertwesker22
03-06-2012, 09:56 PM
we do not consider patriotism desirable if it contradicts civilised behaviour.i do not have a country to fight for because my country is the earth and i am a proud, patriotic citizen of the world

Let's hope you never get "deported" then ;)

freddie_1897
03-06-2012, 09:58 PM
Lets hope you never get "deported" then ;)
well considering the strict new immigration laws that might be a problem! hmmm, i wonder who the president should be, lets have a vote

UrDeviant1
03-06-2012, 10:00 PM
we do not consider patriotism desirable if it contradicts civilised behaviour. I for one, do not have a country to fight for because my country is the earth, and i am a proud, patriotic citizen of the world.

lmao

lIIIIIllIIIIIl
03-07-2012, 08:43 PM
I would like to give you all a history lesson. When the American Revolution started, Britain looked a its colony and took records, this showed that a majority of the colonists wanted to stay as a part of the British empire. George Washington was considered a rebel as he was acting against the majority, the British people of the united kingdom wanted slavery to be abolished, the colonists wanted slaves as they were a source of income. The Revolution was not about freedom but about money. The Natives respected the British as they brought trade and made laws to stop the colonists invading their land, letting them keep their FREEDOM. George Washington revolution was no more honerable than that of the Indian mutiny were the Indians slaughtered their own people for working with the British.

so what do you call a "Tyrant" America, a ruling body that lets its subject choose whether to be independent after a vote, prevents its colony from slaughtering natives to expand and try to abolish slave labour, or a country that invades others killing there populous forcing their ideology and religion upon them, interfering with affairs because of oil and arrests people for speaking their mind. if you didn't realise the second example is referring to your interference in the middle east during the soviet invasion of Afghanistan and following attacks on the middle east, that caused so much hatred for your country world wide and caused them to attack america at its very heart.

jatt100
03-07-2012, 08:51 PM
it seems like alot of people, especially non-americans after seeing the trailer are worried about AC3 being a "pro-amerca.... america all the way, jingoism, nationalism" whatever..... and that's a bad thing,

look there are many bad things about nationalism, but there are also good things as well, just like there is good and bad with internationalism, capitalism, communism and every other type of ism, its black and white..

whats so bad, about a game being patriotic.... im sure there are other movies and games that show patriotism in many other countries.... im sure there are some swedish made films that are patriotic, im sure there are german films that are patriotic, im sure there are russian films that are patriotic......

there is nothing bad about being patriotic, indentifying with your culture, and your country, when violence and hatred start, that's when nationalism turns into that black area, but nonetheless

whats wrong with AC3 being American patriotic


Captain America always used to be my favorite super hero, still is not cause he was "patriotic", but cause he fought or freedom, and liberty which i truly believe are the "American ways" and it made me proud to be an American, and im sure Cap made people back then proud "a skinny dude, does a test experiement, turns out to be a bad*** fighting machine, fighting or whats right".. representing American.. it made me proud
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/joseph_the_red/Wallpapers/CaptainAmericaWallpaper9.jpgNow Cap isn't what he used to be anymore, he is now something else, the movie, which i liked, isn't really the Cap that i remember, in the comics



Now i realize that the story, the universe, the storytelling of Captain America is completely different then Assassins Creed, i know that

Altair, Ezio and now Connor are totally different people then Steve Rogers.... the assassins are totally different then the avengers.. or other superheroes, there completely different

but i was using cap as a example

i don't view media, rather it be a game, movie.. that shows patriotism of a country or a group as a bad thing, since there are many other stuff that show patriotism, nationalism all around the world...

im sure there are arab movies that praise arabs

im sure there are israeli video games, that praise isralies..



i just don't see a problem with patriotism/nationalism being represented in video games

Its because we see this sort of thing ALL OF THE TIME.

And when you mentioned the American ways being about freedom, I lol'd. The slave trade, killing the natives of the country that you (not directed at OP) invaded and using some of them as slaves?...meh that doesnt scream "freedom" to me.

But tbh I dont think AC3 will be all all about depicting America as the best country ever or what not, so Im not too worried...

OculusRed
03-07-2012, 10:33 PM
Consider the war itself. Regardless of what you think of America now, the war was a province of an empire fighting to throw off foreign control. The Templars would most obviously side with the British, being the sort of control nuts they are, rather than with a relatively backwater group of colonies that already had a long history of democratic local self government. In fighting them, the Assassins would of course back the colonists. However, as they were between Patriots and Loyalists at the time, the lines are blurry, this isn't a perfectly clean cut split. As we've been told, there are bad colonists and good brits.

Also, the Assassins don't have a history of neutrality. Consider revelations, Yusaf said "We have to protect our prince" when speaking of Suleiman. Obviously the Assassin's are not immune to nationalist tendencies, especially when the other side of the conflict is Templar backed.

Connor is supposed to have some sort of close interaction with George Washington. He was something of a strange man. Yes, he had slaves (Granted, he at least freed them in his will). Many otherwise morally upstanding individuals in the time period had a blindspot a mile wide concerning slavery, so I'm just going to move past the controversial topic of slavery of the period for the time being. He certainly believed in ideals of liberty. He was also not enamored with power, his intense idolization of Cincinnatus is quite relevant there. He wasn't well educated (And he was painfully aware of that fact, to the point that he was too embarrassed to speak when the likes of Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were in the room for fear of blundering in such a way that he would reveal it). He also accidentally kicked off the French-Indian War near single handedly when he commanded a militia unit as a young man (He became an aid to a british general for the remainder of the war in order to remedy his inexperience). He also had an extreme aversion to physical contact, to the point where he believed a handshake was too intimate a gesture to be exchanged between strangers. He was a very unusual man, but it would be very difficult to fit him into a Templar mold I think.

OculusRed
03-07-2012, 10:40 PM
Its because we see this sort of thing ALL OF THE TIME.

And when you mentioned the American ways being about freedom, I lol'd. The slave trade, killing the natives of the country that you (not directed at OP) invaded and using some of them as slaves?...meh that doesnt scream "freedom" to me.

But tbh I dont think AC3 will be all all about depicting America as the best country ever or what not, so Im not too worried...

Actually native peoples were never enslaved, slavery was imported and under the scrutiny of the ideals the revolutionaries fought for it didn't last. The ideals of the revolutionaries fought for were great ideals, they never claimed they had achieved all those ideals. I don't think AC3 will be about portraying America as "the best" but I do believe the ideals of the revolution are more in line with the Assassins than anything the British were coming up with.

Eziolala
03-07-2012, 11:14 PM
While there are Templars on both sides, I hope that there's a similar amount of them (eg. not 19 British and 1 American). I'm excited for ACIII, but I can't help but be irked when I see the American flag in a lot of the promotional shots.

lilshawty741
03-07-2012, 11:45 PM
Its because we see this sort of thing ALL OF THE TIME.

And when you mentioned the American ways being about freedom, I lol'd. The slave trade, killing the natives of the country that you (not directed at OP) invaded and using some of them as slaves?...meh that doesnt scream "freedom" to me.

But tbh I dont think AC3 will be all all about depicting America as the best country ever or what not, so Im not too worried...

Well aristocraticly ruled parliament, largest empire in the world at the time, leader of Atlantic slave trade doesn't really scream freedom to me either. It's true there was slavery in the south (most northern states abolished slavery fairly quickly and Pennsylvania outlawed it even before the war) and that the colonists often treated the native Americans cruelly, but no nation is perfect, no nation exists that has never at some point committed horrible and inhuman acts, and no nation attempted to put freedom and democracy into practice before America (I'm talking about the modern world, obviously Greece had the first democracy.) America didn't achieve perfect freedom, but we did take the first step in that direction. Saying the American Revolution wasn't about freedom because they still had slaves is like saying Copernicus wasn't an astronomer because he was wrong about the earth moving in circles around the sun.

TheTetraktys
03-08-2012, 12:04 AM
Liberty & Freedom the American way... While mainstream media is owned by globalists and use propaganda. While a large majority of congress are bought & payed for. While you're being treated like a criminal or terrorist, with checkpoints, body scanners, sound cannon's, tazers and more coming soon. While there are more and more reports of police brutality and the killing of innocent civilians. While the Federal Reserve is making you slaves. While Monsanto with help from government is destroying American farmers and farmers in other countries (especially India). While education has been going down all the time. While they want to or already have approved the flying of drones in American skies. While more and more wealth is being herded into the hands of the rich.

Want me to continue?

I'm not saying it's any better here in Europe, cause it's not. But, USA definitely isn't the land of Liberty & Freedom. It hasn't been for a long time.

xxtonypunk96xx
03-08-2012, 12:45 AM
o.o omg i couldn't put it better in any other words the creepy thing is though i was just gonna make a post like this with the same title lol

BohemiaDrinker
03-08-2012, 01:25 AM
Speaking as a non-american.... Among other things, it`s overdone. REALLY overdone.

The United Stataes are probably the country that exports culture the most, and it`s really not that hard to find an american flag waving. Add to that, the United States pass an image of being really, really self-centered, and that`s not an image that`s appreciated around the world.

Remember "Independence Day", with Will Smith? I saw that in 1995, I think, and as awesome as it is as a blockbuster movie, the section in which the representatives of all the countries go "The United States decided to act, finally!", the whole theater booed.

So, it`s basically this; even if not accurate, the US pass to the rest of the world the idea that they think they invented freedom, that all other countries imitate them, and that they are the center of the world. Add to thatthe constant mis-representation of other places in the very same cultural media they export, and the american patriotism starts to get really annoying if you`re not, you know, a citzen of the US.

I can't speak for the rest of the world, I can`t even speak from the entirety of my country (Brazil), but everyone from here I spoke to is not too thrilled in seeing american flags waving at the wind. Interactingwoth George Washington (who is nothing more than a footnote in our histor classes - at least was when I went to school) is not a selling point really.... At least not asw it was interacting with the likes of Da Vinci, Copernico and Machiavel.

The said importance of this historical setting is lost to a lot of people, and the departure of the architectural marvels from Italy or Istambul is also a sore point. Particularly, I don`t care about the founding fathers, or American Independence in itself.

Not saying I hate America, or will hate the gameor anything like that, I don`t and I`m sure I won`t. But, unlike any other AC game, it fails to blow me away with it`s setting. Instead, it provides more of the same - a setting that I tolerate in order to be able to experience playing with an assassin or watching Will Smith blow up some aliens.

Acrimonious_Nin
03-08-2012, 02:07 AM
Speaking as a non-american.... Among other things, it`s overdone. REALLY overdone.

The United Stataes are probably the country that exports culture the most, and it`s really not that hard to find an american flag waving. Add to that, the United States pass an image of being really, really self-centered, and that`s not an image that`s appreciated around the world.

Remember "Independence Day", with Will Smith? I saw that in 1995, I think, and as awesome as it is as a blockbuster movie, the section in which the representatives of all the countries go "The United States decided to act, finally!", the whole theater booed.

So, it`s basically this; even if not accurate, the US pass to the rest of the world the idea that they think they invented freedom, that all other countries imitate them, and that they are the center of the world. Add to thatthe constant mis-representation of other places in the very same cultural media they export, and the american patriotism starts to get really annoying if you`re not, you know, a citzen of the US.

I can't speak for the rest of the world, I can`t even speak from the entirety of my country (Brazil), but everyone from here I spoke to is not too thrilled in seeing american flags waving at the wind. Interactingwoth George Washington (who is nothing more than a footnote in our histor classes - at least was when I went to school) is not a selling point really.... At least not asw it was interacting with the likes of Da Vinci, Copernico and Machiavel.

The said importance of this historical setting is lost to a lot of people, and the departure of the architectural marvels from Italy or Istambul is also a sore point. Particularly, I don`t care about the founding fathers, or American Independence in itself.

Not saying I hate America, or will hate the gameor anything like that, I don`t and I`m sure I won`t. But, unlike any other AC game, it fails to blow me away with it`s setting. Instead, it provides more of the same - a setting that I tolerate in order to be able to experience playing with an assassin or watching Will Smith blow up some aliens.

look at it this way an assassins in brazil fighting the corrupt cops and drug trafficers is also a dull theme I think that the point of this game is to understand why they are in new york by visiting an assassins that lived in that era....just so we understand where george washington's apple is located

DraconisLupus
03-08-2012, 02:28 AM
I’ve seen some several things in this thread that I’d like to comment on.

Many are comparing America today with the America of the time of this game. Please understand that this country today has very little resemblance to the America that was founded. Thomas Jefferson stated that the Indian nations should be treated as nations in respect to treaties and boundaries and up until around the Civil War they were. The majority of the Founding Fathers did not want slavery. Unlike what is taught today, even in American schools, the three-fifths part of the Constitution was done to ensure that slavers would never gain the majority control of the government so that slavery would wither and die. The Founding Fathers believed in Divine Providence which meant that as long as THEY followed the Laws of Nature’s God, or basically the belief that all people desire freedom but have to take responsibility for their own choices in that freedom, then they would prevail. The Founding Fathers wanted no treaties with other nations but to be friendly with all. This would prevent us from being dragged into conflicts that we shouldn’t be involved in. All of this changed with President Jackson who began talking about Manifest Destiny which is the belief that because we have God on our side we are always right. And that is dead wrong. Please understand that many of the heroes of the American Revolution were not the stereotypical white men. One of our first major victories, where we captured a British Officer would not have happened without the black patriot in the raiding party, but the unforgiveable crime of not teaching about these men has caused a lot of the hatred. The Founding Fathers did want America to be the leader of the world but like all great leaders they wanted America to lead by example. This has also been changed by American Progressives with the hope of fostering hatred towards America. They have succeeded because now America is looked at as meddling and not a leader. Think about it many of the other countries that now have freedom had their major changes after seeing what America did between 1791 and the Civil War when America truly was the leader of the world. America simply walked a path and told others that they were more than welcome to join us in our walk but they didn’t have to if they chose not to.

I wonder if deep down the rest of the world’s hatred of America comes from an understanding of what America has lost and so they resent us for being so stupid as to lose it. Personally I pity and mourn what America has lost and yet still love my country.

And for those wondering I am very patriotic of my country as it was founded, barring the black stains of slavery. But I would never have a desire to try to force my patriotism on someone else. It is like trying to force charity from someone. It isn’t charity unless they give it willingly.

Oh I could comment on other things from this thread but they would probably be considered inflammatory. (Isn’t it interesting how in- which means “not” has come to mean “causes” because people see in- as meaning into something or involved with something. So actually it should be “flammatory” instead of “inflammatory.”)

Acrimonious_Nin
03-08-2012, 02:35 AM
I’ve seen some several things in this thread that I’d like to comment on.

. (Isn’t it interesting how in- which means “not” has come to mean “causes” because people see in- as meaning into something or involved with something. So actually it should be “flammatory” instead of “inflammatory.”)

I see you are well versed in american history to see how and why people see america as it is, but that in- stuff is quite intriguing or is it triguing :p lol

BMC24
03-08-2012, 02:39 AM
So how do i make my OWN THREAD not searching others threads..? I see top left but it says NEW POST'S not NEW POST...IVE BEEN TOLD IDE HAVE THE PERFECT THREAD ;)

BMC24
03-08-2012, 02:41 AM
The Assassins Creed:lll Game-Informer >CONTENT REFERENCES<:
...I WOULD LOVE TO GLIDE TO A BUILDING...CLIMB IT...get to TARGET...kick out GLASS...assassinate HIM...run out the other WINDOW...AND GLIDE OUT SCALING ALONG BUILDING WALLS WITH GLOVES...AND LEAPING WITH GLIDER FOR SAFE PUZZLE LIKE MANOVERS to land safely AND SECURELY...AS SEEN IN LINKS BELOW!!!
(CHECK LINKS OUT at least THX and then read TRUST ME!!!EPIC)

.........In the last chapter of AC:lll (weather AC:3.5 or AC:3.8) Introduce a Wing Glide system that expands out from his arms and waist like the glide suits in Transformers: 3 they used for diving out of helecopters under attack...Only in AC:lll use it for landing safely from an exaustingly high height such as mountains, tall buildings or houses, and trees...So you can get around smoother more FUN and take in vast SCENERIES while getting to your destination where ever that may be, possibly landing on a Target to Assassinate :)..?AWSOME!!!
NOTE: THE WING GLIDING IS SEEN HERE....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHRf01Gjosk...(START TIME AT 1:35) PLEASE DO NOT USE ANYTHING LIKE THE STORY JUST THE GLIDE WINGS AHA ;)(BE SURE TO MAKE IT BLEND WITH THE AC: SUITE)

...........Have AC:4 make this Wing Glide system a more usefull tool as it may make sence in AC:4 with bigger buildings, bigger military threats, and bigger environments...Example of its improvement >the AC: 3 games time was too far in past to make this glider work well for a long distances being its fabrication time of 1800's...So have AC: 4 perfect its glide ranges and flow with the winds and your vast height or speeds for long ranges beyond AC: 3's fabrication time..............

...........(IN AC: 4) As well as artillary like bombs (Custom made like AC: Rev.) you may drop on enemies from above(Using Wing Glide system)...Only around AC: 4's time range with the military time range possibly being advanced spec. ops. time > the bomb might be a sensored bomb that scans enemies then erupts out 3 modules fillled with 2 tiny sensored bombs in each MODULE that scan the RIGHT TARGETS (enemies) ONLY < wich makes 6 tiny bombs that rain down on the enemies...BEING the bombs scan their target before launching and BEFORE HITTING THE GROUND............................................ .................................................. .................................................. ..........................
.....NOTE: THIS BOMB IS SEEN ON....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQlkNEG-5WM&feature=related[/URL]...(START TIME AT 3:55min.) ITS REAL ONLY IT RELEASES 40 TINY BOMBS OUT...IN REAL LIFE ITS CALLED THE [CBU-97] this link ABOVE is THE BEST video description of THE BOMB...hope you guys give our assassin some real military SPEC. Assassin missions in AC: 4 or 5...THOUGH be sure its small and stealthy cause thats the BRILLIANCE OF YOUR Assassins Creed Games...Also it should only be used when USING THE WING GLIDE SYSTEM because depolying a miny bomb of this type STILL NEEDS ITS SENSORY TIME to locate enemies MID-AIR...Though you can come up with variouse different mini bombs besides just this 1 in the TIME OF THIS WEAPONRY!!!(GOOD LUCK) Hope you GUYS GET GAME OF THE YEAR SOON! : ]

.........Have AC: 3.4 or something have a posse system for multiplayer SIMILAR TO POPULAR RED-DEAD: REDEMPTION only you guys with that mechanic would be WAY BEYOND COOLER and should ALSO CONSIDER ADDING OUR MODERN GAMES FOR MONEY like gambling, theiving, and romancing...MORE MONEY TO YA GUYS if this is added in FULL GAME or DLC...LOOK AT GTA or RED-DEAD both did well...BOTH 9.0 RATINGS...

.......Lastly make whichever AC game comes just before you use the FUTURE ASSASSIN DESMOND HAVE that AC...be 1 about governmental CORRUPTION and guys with high jobs in the GOVERNMENTAL BUISNESS BE SERIOUSLY BAD outside of his acted nice ROLE....Also an idea would be to have the Wing Glide System STAY for ALL AC GAMES after AC: 3 or 4 because he should look EPIC all the time WITH THE ILLUSION OF AN EAGLE...i would also reccomend adding for AC: before DESMOND (AC: BD) have gloves like from "Mission Impossible 4" that allow you to stick to WALLS OR WINDOWS OF 30.STORY BUILDINGS and sneak on your enemies from there working quarters UNDERGROUND OR WAY ABOVE GROUND............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .............................................
.....NOTE: THE GLOVES ARE SEEN HERE....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0LQnQSrC-g...(START TIME AT 2:00min.) the function will WORK WELL FOR GLIDING BUILDING TO BUILDING IN OUR TIME OR DESMONDS FUTURE TIME FRAME plus may add a lot of cool aspects for STEALTH or COMBAT if you have clever ideas using the GLOVES AS WELL making it in your own way OF AC...I WOULD LOVE TO GLIDE TO A BUILDING...CLIMB IT...get to TARGET...kick out GLASS...assassinate HIM...run out the other WINDOW...AND GLIDE OUT SCALING ALONG BUILDING WALLS WITH GLOVES...AND LEAPING WITH GLIDER FOR SAFE PUZZLE LIKE MANOVERS to land safely AND SECURELY.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........................................
.......ANOTHER NOTE: controls for Glider > Click "LEFT"-JOY-STICK, WHILE RUNNING///for GLOVES(used when buildings have mostly GLASS WNDOWS) > click "RIGHT"-JOY-STICK///to make it work as a FLOW using SLOW-MO before landing on side of a BUILDING so you may choose > CLICK Right-JS for percise timing of GLOVES or > CLICK "A" for scaling DOWN BUILDING (incase of wall JUMP NEEDS) or > CLICK "B" for Breaking out WINDOW ON THE FLY...THIS MAKES THE SLOW-MO...A percise TOOL FOR THESE PERCISELY TIMED MOMENTS and specifically, "New Controlls" for the SLOW-MO TIME framed out..!!! :) Be sure sometime soon to make AC: Suit BLACK because in our TIME HE WILL NEED TO COUNT ON NIGHT TIME FOR = STEALTH ADVANTAGE and day time for = CAMO-ADVANTAGE ;) making your SUITS HAVE ACTUAL EFFECT ON YOUR PERFROMENCE!!! Mabey even make SOME SUITS have spikes on GAUNLETS or something speacial to each SUIT....DLC or not AWSOME!!!

I'VE READ ALL THE Assassins Creed GAME INFORMERS LONG INFO SECTIONS SO PLEASE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT READING MY SMALL SEGMENT HERE AND ESPEACIALLY LOOK AT THE LINKS I PUT ONTO HERE TO HELP FOR THE BEST AC GAME POSSIBLE AND HONESTLY IF THESE IDEAS ARNT IN THEIR I WOULD CRY :(....(SIMPLY COPY AND PASTE the LINKS in the WEB-BOX and search...AS I'M SURE YOU KNOW...BUT JUST INCASE....LOVE YOU GUYS!!!)......................

Appretiate your time for READING THIS BUT I HOPE YOU GUYS APPRETATE IT MORE THAN ME IM JUST PROVIDING IDEAS FOR AC GAMES GAMES IN FUTURE for GAME of THE YEAR!!!

Acrimonious_Nin
03-08-2012, 02:47 AM
you are trolling delete your post please you derailed the thread and therefore broke the rules of the forums... :( sorry but its true remove this stuff

Jediknightben
03-08-2012, 02:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dQzq-GWj3o

BohemiaDrinker
03-08-2012, 03:02 AM
look at it this way an assassins in brazil fighting the corrupt cops and drug trafficers is also a dull theme I think that the point of this game is to understand why they are in new york by visiting an assassins that lived in that era....just so we understand where george washington's apple is located

Completelly agree. I would NOT want an AC game set in Brazil. ;)

Teknykk
03-08-2012, 03:07 AM
To be completely honest, I'm fine with playing the character currently marketed...half-british and half-american indian fits with my mind just fine...and I won't complain if we're killing Americans as well as British, it's only fair after all. I may complain if an Assassin that looks like he is a fighter in the middle turns out to be just a pawn for one side and doesn't enter into any conflict with them whatsoever. I'm not fond of the history that is the American Revolution, nor of a lot that occured during it, and personally would like to see Connor fight against both sides to some degree to show a sense of neutrality the Assassins should and not show bias to one particular side.

I mean yes...no one complained about killing Syrians, Christians, Italians, Catholics, Ottomans or Byzantines...and no one should really complain about British being killed either...but the same goes for Americans, I want to see some of them die by my virtual hand to show no bias towards any particular race or religion (not that I care for the latter much), if I don't then we may have a rather bad patriotic issue on our hands...especially if people start crying about the thought of Americans being killed in a virtual world.

Each to their own, but personally...I hate equally and would prefer to kill that way in historical games, and not have a bias view shoved down my throat...and so far the AC series has lived up to that, I would like it to stay that way.

OculusRed
03-08-2012, 04:30 AM
To be completely honest, I'm fine with playing the character currently marketed...half-british and half-american indian fits with my mind just fine...and I won't complain if we're killing Americans as well as British, it's only fair after all. I may complain if an Assassin that looks like he is a fighter in the middle turns out to be just a pawn for one side and doesn't enter into any conflict with them whatsoever. I'm not fond of the history that is the American Revolution, nor of a lot that occured during it, and personally would like to see Connor fight against both sides to some degree to show a sense of neutrality the Assassins should and not show bias to one particular side.

I mean yes...no one complained about killing Syrians, Christians, Italians, Catholics, Ottomans or Byzantines...and no one should really complain about British being killed either...but the same goes for Americans, I want to see some of them die by my virtual hand to show no bias towards any particular race or religion (not that I care for the latter much), if I don't then we may have a rather bad patriotic issue on our hands...especially if people start crying about the thought of Americans being killed in a virtual world.

Each to their own, but personally...I hate equally and would prefer to kill that way in historical games, and not have a bias view shoved down my throat...and so far the AC series has lived up to that, I would like it to stay that way.

Just to note, for reasons you can find on the previous page in a post of mine, I expect there to be more Templars on the british side. The Assassins aren't beyond supporting an ally they believe opposes Templar interests. As an empire at the time seeking control over a group of colonies that already had a long history of local self government, I'd expect to find most of the Templars on the British side. That said, I don't expect Connor to be a tool to help the colonists win, I expect the war to be largely background for the Templar Assassin conflict.

That said, I'm convinced John Adams was a Templar :p

SolidSage
03-08-2012, 04:58 AM
Another polarizing thread about America. First as a Patriot (I love the freedom my country affords me) I would like to point out that we are talking about the United States. America is compromized of many countries, look at a map, there is a North and a South America. Mexico is American, for example. I like the America's in general.

I think Patriotism is healthy until it is translated into meaning hatred of other countries....which isn't what it is, it's really just pride and loyalty to a degree. While I know my nation has made many errors (humanity is unfortunately flawed the world over), I don't think it has unleashed substantially more evils on the world than it's peers. ALL nations (alright, most) have histories steeped in shameful acts.

A good reason for the U.S's negative image is the fact that as a country it's actions are very transparent. It's OWN media and citizens act as watchdogs and inform the world of what's going on. Some call this 'exporting', I see it as confessing. Too many parts of the world still blanket their inner workings, the conditions and extremes their populations are forced to endure. For many the freedom to speak their mind is punishable with severe consequences.

I don't understand how so many people can claim to know so much about the U.S's secret motives and actions the world over. I live here and have access to less mainstream information and I don't know as mucha s some of you claim to. I have also been to much of Europe, Africa, South America, and the Middle East. I noticed serious problems for much of the cultures of these locations, problems similar and often worse than in the States. And while the U.S does get involved in the affairs of others, and this is a huge contributor to it's negative image, some of those involvements are needed. It shouldn't neccesarily be the U.S that gets involved but if not, then who? Saying no-one should help may be right for you and your nation but other nations want that help, Uganda for example.
It's a strange state of affairs in the world today. The good news, is that with the proliferation of entities like Facebook, the population of the World is more free to dialogue with each other without their Governments speaking for them, and often times, creating an incorrect image and perception of the people's desires.
There are members here who's distatste for certain places or peoples or things is apparent, and it is THAT nature that I feel to be the most threatening to world peace. Talking about borders imprisoning the minds of the people then at the same time slapping a label on one particular nation seems hypocritical and ignorant.
The sincere among us have to remember to consider the source, much talk here is opinion only, very uniformed and wholly biased. There are efil doers everywhere, in every country...well maybe not Japan, have you seen the statistics on their crime rate?

The bigger problem we face, is that bad (in its simplest form) guys ARE going to attack whatever they feel like or opposed to in the moment, whereas good guys, want to avoid strife and enjoy their time. And there we find the crux, evil runs amok while good men (and women) stand by and do nothing.
The U.S's problem may be that at times it fancies itself as the good guy and feels like it 'needs' to step in, when in fact, a lot of times, maybe it shouldn't. Other times it has been mistaken and thinks the wrong guy is the good guy.

But this really has NOTHING to do with AC3 does it. It's set in a time and place that is long dead, where now, only echoes and ripples of that time still exist.

Anyway, I''ve met folks I really liked in all of the countries I have been to (around 31 or < last time I counted), and many times, their desires for their lives and futures were very similar to my own. Take this forum for example, everyone here (most) really enjoy running around well realized historical maps of lands where we can use an avatar to brutaly enact violence upon the bad guys.
Are any of us really that different? We all have flags don't we, we all have something about our lands and peoples that we love, along with things we want to change? Progress towards peace will come when more of us can appreciate and respect the other guys home. :)

Acrimonious_Nin
03-08-2012, 05:17 AM
Another polarizing thread about America. First as a Patriot (I love the freedom my country affords me) I would like to point out that we are talking about the United States. America is compromized of many countries, look at a map, there is a North and a South America. Mexico is American, for example. I like the America's in general.

I think Patriotism is healthy until it is translated into meaning hatred of other countries....which isn't what it is, it's really just pride and loyalty to a degree. While I know my nation has made many errors (humanity is unfortunately flawed the world over), I don't think it has unleashed substantially more evils on the world than it's peers. ALL nations (alright, most) have histories steeped in shameful acts.

A good reason for the U.S's negative image is the fact that as a country it's actions are very transparent. It's OWN media and citizens act as watchdogs and inform the world of what's going on. Some call this 'exporting', I see it as confessing. Too many parts of the world still blanket their inner workings, the conditions and extremes their populations are forced to endure. For many the freedom to speak their mind is punishable with severe consequences.

I don't understand how so many people can claim to know so much about the U.S's secret motives and actions the world over. I live here and have access to less mainstream information and I don't know as mucha s some of you claim to. I have also been to much of Europe, Africa, South America, and the Middle East. I noticed serious problems for much of the cultures of these locations, problems similar and often worse than in the States. And while the U.S does get involved in the affairs of others, and this is a huge contributor to it's negative image, some of those involvements are needed. It shouldn't neccesarily be the U.S that gets involved but if not, then who? Saying no-one should help may be right for you and your nation but other nations want that help, Uganda for example.
It's a strange state of affairs in the world today. The good news, is that with the proliferation of entities like Facebook, the population of the World is more free to dialogue with each other without their Governments speaking for them, and often times, creating an incorrect image and perception of the people's desires.
There are members here who's distatste for certain places or peoples or things is apparent, and it is THAT nature that I feel to be the most threatening to world peace. Talking about borders imprisoning the minds of the people then at the same time slapping a label on one particular nation seems hypocritical and ignorant.
The sincere among us have to remember to consider the source, much talk here is opinion only, very uniformed and wholly biased. There are efil doers everywhere, in every country...well maybe not Japan, have you seen the statistics on their crime rate?

The bigger problem we face, is that bad (in its simplest form) guys ARE going to attack whatever they feel like or opposed to in the moment, whereas good guys, want to avoid strife and enjoy their time. And there we find the crux, evil runs amok while good men (and women) stand by and do nothing.
The U.S's problem may be that at times it fancies itself as the good guy and feels like it 'needs' to step in, when in fact, a lot of times, maybe it shouldn't. Other times it has been mistaken and thinks the wrong guy is the good guy.

But this really has NOTHING to do with AC3 does it. It's set in a time and place that is long dead, where now, only echoes and ripples of that time still exist.

Anyway, I''ve met folks I really liked in all of the countries I have been to (around 31 or < last time I counted), and many times, their desires for their lives and futures were very similar to my own. Take this forum for example, everyone here (most) really enjoy running around well realized historical maps of lands where we can use an avatar to brutaly enact violence upon the bad guys.
Are any of us really that different? We all have flags don't we, we all have something about our lands and peoples that we love, along with things we want to change? Progress towards peace will come when more of us can appreciate and respect the other guys home. :)

truly these words move me <3 :') ...if america has a bad image it is people like this that still bring hope and truth about the heart of the american consensus and humanity...truly words of understanding ! :D

beatledude210
03-08-2012, 06:03 AM
I'm VERY sure that I recall the Gameinformer issue stating that this will not be a game about patriotism and liberty. It is still very much the story of the Assassin's and the Templars.

Jamison_J_B
03-08-2012, 08:45 AM
I’ve seen some several things in this thread that I’d like to comment on.

Many are comparing America today with the America of the time of this game. Please understand that this country today has very little resemblance to the America that was founded. Thomas Jefferson stated that the Indian nations should be treated as nations in respect to treaties and boundaries and up until around the Civil War they were. The majority of the Founding Fathers did not want slavery. Unlike what is taught today, even in American schools, the three-fifths part of the Constitution was done to ensure that slavers would never gain the majority control of the government so that slavery would wither and die. The Founding Fathers believed in Divine Providence which meant that as long as THEY followed the Laws of Nature’s God, or basically the belief that all people desire freedom but have to take responsibility for their own choices in that freedom, then they would prevail. The Founding Fathers wanted no treaties with other nations but to be friendly with all. This would prevent us from being dragged into conflicts that we shouldn’t be involved in. All of this changed with President Jackson who began talking about Manifest Destiny which is the belief that because we have God on our side we are always right. And that is dead wrong. Please understand that many of the heroes of the American Revolution were not the stereotypical white men. One of our first major victories, where we captured a British Officer would not have happened without the black patriot in the raiding party, but the unforgiveable crime of not teaching about these men has caused a lot of the hatred. The Founding Fathers did want America to be the leader of the world but like all great leaders they wanted America to lead by example. This has also been changed by American Progressives with the hope of fostering hatred towards America. They have succeeded because now America is looked at as meddling and not a leader. Think about it many of the other countries that now have freedom had their major changes after seeing what America did between 1791 and the Civil War when America truly was the leader of the world. America simply walked a path and told others that they were more than welcome to join us in our walk but they didn’t have to if they chose not to.

I wonder if deep down the rest of the world’s hatred of America comes from an understanding of what America has lost and so they resent us for being so stupid as to lose it. Personally I pity and mourn what America has lost and yet still love my country.

And for those wondering I am very patriotic of my country as it was founded, barring the black stains of slavery. But I would never have a desire to try to force my patriotism on someone else. It is like trying to force charity from someone. It isn’t charity unless they give it willingly.

Oh I could comment on other things from this thread but they would probably be considered inflammatory. (Isn’t it interesting how in- which means “not” has come to mean “causes” because people see in- as meaning into something or involved with something. So actually it should be “flammatory” instead of “inflammatory.”)

This. Coming from a United States citizen, I don't hate any nation, nor do I want to try to shape/mold any nation, though I am against nations that use terrorism against others, and if we are attacked I think we should have the right to fight back (al-qaeda). I also believe that every nation should have it's own sovereignty/culture, because culture is what makes each nation individual and unique.

gmoney8869
03-08-2012, 09:39 AM
Nationalism is always a bad thing. In every case.

There are no good or positive aspects of nationalism.

Nationalism (or Patriotism, "love of your country/homeland", whatever you call it) is the cause for every major war since Napoleon. Nationalism separates and divides the continuous human race and sets us against each other. To people saying that you can be separate "in a good way", you are nothing but indoctrinated. Division, an "us and them" attitude, can never promote unity or progress. They promote only conflict, paranoia, and hatred.

All human beings are the same. We are part of one family, we all came from the same place, and we are all descended from the same original people. We are genetically almost identical to each other. Countries and nations are nothing but modern synonyms for tribes. Tribalism is an outdated and obsolete practice. Tribes are intrinsically and inherently violent. At the most basic level, a country is nothing more than a set of laws and a military. Countries are violent entities.

Concepts like a national identity, pride, and patriotism are all just tools to indoctrinate citizens in to maintaining the current power structure. "Nationalism" arose after the decline of religion to replace older concepts like the "Mandate of Heaven" in China and the "Divine Right of Kings" in Europe, which were also in place merely to maintain obedience.

Countries are much like "races". They are artificial, illusory social constructs that are intentionally created to divide people.

A country needs not be anything more than a set of laws. I am from the USA, and I do currently approve of the laws of my country, so I will choose to live there, because it's laws are consistent with my desires. If that changed, I would not hesitate to leave. I do not love my country, I do not care about my country. If another country can make my life better, I would move there right away.

Hopefully someday soon we can forget about divisions like this and just freely associate with anyone in the world that we choose to. Anything that you are born in to is a prison.

Jamison_J_B
03-08-2012, 09:48 AM
Nationalism is always a bad thing. In every case.

There are no good or positive aspects of nationalism.

Nationalism (or Patriotism, "love of your country/homeland", whatever you call it) is the cause for every major war since Napoleon. Nationalism separates and divides the continuous human race and sets us against each other. To people saying that you can be separate "in a good way", you are nothing but indoctrinated. Division, an "us and them" attitude, can never promote unity or progress. They promote only conflict, paranoia, and hatred.

All human beings are the same. We are part of one family, we all came from the same place, and we are all descended from the same original people. We are genetically almost identical to each other. Countries and nations are nothing but modern synonyms for tribes. Tribalism is an outdated and obsolete practice. Tribes are intrinsically and inherently violent. At the most basic level, a country is nothing more than a set of laws and a military. Countries are violent entities.

Concepts like a national identity, pride, and patriotism are all just tools to indoctrinate citizens in to maintaining the current power structure. "Nationalism" arose after the decline of religion to replace older concepts like the "Mandate of Heaven" in China and the "Divine Right of Kings" in Europe, which were also in place merely to maintain obedience.

Countries are much like "races". They are artificial, illusory social constructs that are intentionally created to divide people.

A country needs not be anything more than a set of laws. I am from the USA, and I do currently approve of the laws of my country, so I will choose to live there, because it's laws are consistent with my desires. If that changed, I would not hesitate to leave. I do not love my country, I do not care about my country. If another country can make my life better, I would move there right away.

Hopefully someday soon we can forget about divisions like this and just freely associate with anyone in the world that we choose to. Anything that you are born in to is a prison.

I would think that British citizens love Britain, German citizens love Germany, etc. etc. What is wrong with having love for your own country? Doesn't every person what to be involved in their own country? Patriotism isn't the issue, it's people that say "My country is the best and screw everyone else". Individual culture can be respected, in knowing that their are elements that make every nation great... history and culture should be cherished, instead of trying to create one big bland mix.

gmoney8869
03-08-2012, 11:08 AM
I would think that British citizens love Britain, German citizens love Germany, etc. etc. What is wrong with having love for your own country? Doesn't every person what to be involved in their own country? Patriotism isn't the issue, it's people that say "My country is the best and screw everyone else". Individual culture can be respected, in knowing that their are elements that make every nation great... history and culture should be cherished, instead of trying to create one big bland mix.

Nation =/= Culture. Nations will often associate themselves with a culture to give themselves greater legitimacy. Again, a Nation is just a power structure. Anything else is just a means of getting people to go along with it. Here's a good, if somewhat extreme, example. In Nazi Germany, Hitler claimed that he was bringing back traditional German culture. That's why he used things like Runes and talked about "Purity". If a Nation can get you to believe that you are part of something special, then they can get you to be obedient.

In the US we used to have a thing called Manifest Destiny. Later they changed it to the less religious American Exceptionalism. These are both attempts to tie people's culture to the power structure. They get Americans to think that the power structure is supporting their ideals, and so they all rush out to conquer land from Natives and from Mexico, and then later to having an Empire in South America and in the Pacific. It's all just about getting more and more power, it has nothing to do with "American Culture". That's just a tool.

People have culture. Nations have guns. If the people think that the culture and the nation are the same thing, then the nation doesn't have to use the guns.

What is it that British people "love" about Britain? Do they love the people, or the culture, or the land, or the history? None of those things are even related to the nation. The government just likes to act like they are the same thing. That's why they have a useless monarch that shows up at government events, so that love of the history becomes love of the nation. Symbols can be powerful things. A crown doesn't need to be a Piece of Eden to control people.

Nationalism is slavery.

Jayden26
03-08-2012, 01:57 PM
No there are not other movies or games etc, that praise other countries. America has EVERY game, movie, book, etc set in it.
Every other country is ignored.

LightRey
03-08-2012, 02:00 PM
No there are not other movies or games etc, that praise other countries. America has EVERY game, movie, book, etc set in it.
Every other country is ignored.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/545/OpoQQ.jpg
Are you srs?

Jayden26
03-08-2012, 02:01 PM
So why can America wave flags around and be patrioticc, but when people from any other country do it Americans scream out for less nationalism? Hmm?

LightRey
03-08-2012, 02:02 PM
So why can America wave flags around and be patrioticc, but when people from any other country do it Americans scream out for less nationalism? Hmm?

They don't. In fact it's actually the other way 'round.

Jayden26
03-08-2012, 02:02 PM
You must be an American to say that.

LightRey
03-08-2012, 02:04 PM
You must be an American to say that.

I'm Dutch. It even says so right here under my Avatar.

Jayden26
03-08-2012, 02:06 PM
I'll give you an example of American patriotism, Americans love to say "God bless America".
Why not say "God bless the world?" Why does God only love America?
Then take a look at how many other countries say this, with no one. Some people in other countries might say God bless, but not God bless { }.

Jayden26
03-08-2012, 02:07 PM
That doesn't prove your Dutch, why would a Dutchman be speaking English in the first place anyway?

LightRey
03-08-2012, 02:08 PM
I'll give you an example of American patriotism, Americans love to say "God bless America".
Why not say "God bless the world?" Why does God only love America?
Then take a look at how many other countries say this, with no one. Some people in other countries might say God bless, but not God bless { }.

I'm not saying that Americans aren't patriotic. I'm saying that they're not the ones accusing other people of being overly patriotic.


That doesn't prove your Dutch, why would a Dutchman be speaking English in the first place anyway?
Well for one this is an English-speaking forum. Second, all Dutchmen learn to speak English at school.

Jayden26
03-08-2012, 02:11 PM
They may not all be saying that, but how come when one country is patriotic, people will jump down there throats for being nationalistic. When like my previous example should be a good reason to jump down Americas since they are so much more patriotic.

LightRey
03-08-2012, 02:14 PM
They may not all be saying that, but how come when one country is patriotic, people will jump down there throats for being nationalistic. When like my previous example should be a good reason to jump down Americas since they are so much more patriotic.

You have yet to give me any example of that. In the mean time there are several threads on this forum dedicated to the "hate" for American patriotism. I have yet to see any threat focusing on the hate for patriotism regarding any other country.

There is nothing wrong with patriotism.

Jayden26
03-08-2012, 02:19 PM
I know theres nothing wrong with patriotism, I actually support it. But what makes me angry is when Americans tell the rest of the world to stop being so nationalistic when they are arguably the most proud nation on Earth.

LightRey
03-08-2012, 02:22 PM
I know theres nothing wrong with patriotism, I actually support it. But what makes me angry is when Americans tell the rest of the world to stop being so nationalistic when they are arguably the most proud nation on Earth.

But they don't. I can't even think of one example where they're saying that. In the mean time they are in fact the only ones on this entire forum being attacked for it. ever.

Jayden26
03-08-2012, 02:26 PM
I never attacked the Americans?
I'm going to assume their is a lot of anti-America on this site?

Anyway, all I said was that all of the games, and movies,etc, are all set in America or they center around Americans.

LightRey
03-08-2012, 02:29 PM
I never attacked the Americans?
I'm going to assume their is a lot of anti-America on this site?

Anyway, all I said was that all of the games, and movies,etc, are all set in America or they center around Americans.

I never said you did. I'm saying that your claim that Americans accuse people of being overly patriotic is entirely unfounded and on this forum they are in fact the only ones being attacked for being overly patriotic.

And that claim is wrong. Look at CoD, any Dynasty Warriors game, Age of Empires, any Fantasy game, etc. You're just plain wrong there.

Jayden26
03-08-2012, 02:32 PM
COD is set in America, or it has American soldiers fighting in other countries.
Don't know what Dynasty is?
Age of Empires is set in Europe and Middle East.
What Fantasy games?

bradbirty
03-08-2012, 02:32 PM
I have played all AC games for the 360 and i will be getting this game. As a brit is doesn't bother me that the assassin is killing british soldiers. What pisses me off it that we have another game based in america AC has been one off the only games that has stayed away from america i know the desmond story is based in america in the first game but the main plot is in historical citys. One other thing is that with the game coming foward many years will we lose the close combat aspect as by the time of the revolution there where rifals and pistols. sorry for any spelling mistakes

LightRey
03-08-2012, 02:36 PM
COD is set in America, or it has American soldiers fighting in other countries.
Don't know what Dynasty is?
Age of Empires is set in Europe and Middle East.
What Fantasy games?

Call of Duty is always about WOII. Of course it features Americans. However, the setting almost always Japan or Europe and you don't play exclusively as or against Americans.
Dynasty Warriors is a game series set in China.
The Age of Empires series takes place in almost every continent (all except Antarctica and Australia in fact).
All fantasy games. You know, things ranging from Kirby to Skyrim.

Jayden26
03-08-2012, 02:39 PM
Yeah, of course no game is set in Australia.

LightRey
03-08-2012, 02:42 PM
Yeah, of course no game is set in Australia.

None that I know of anyways.

brick177
03-08-2012, 02:55 PM
Alex Hutchinson said they chose America for the untouched wilderness aspect. They wanted to take AC out of the exclusivity of being in cities and put it in an environment where nature itself can be terrifying and where people exist that haven't come into contact with western civilization. The main character being half Brit and half Native gets him caught between the two worlds of European Imperialism and the free natural world. They said the revolutionary war itself is a backdrop where you experience historical events around you but you aren't necessarily aiding in those events.

brick177
03-08-2012, 02:56 PM
Games with settings in Australia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_set_in_Australia

LightRey
03-08-2012, 02:59 PM
Games with settings in Australia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_set_in_Australia

Nice list. Though it's clearly not very long and there are only a few games of note.

Mr_Shade
03-08-2012, 03:02 PM
Guys...

If you can't steer this topic back towards the game, rather than a political debate, it will get locked.

This is not the place for political rants or disagreements - its a game forum, thefore I ask you to talk about the game, and aspects arising from that...

J_Juonio
03-08-2012, 03:07 PM
I haven't posted in a while, but thought this seems interesting enough to reply to.
I mainly don't have a problem with patriotism unless it is over the top because that is when things get ugly. At first I was slightly annoyed by the fact that AC3 will take place in America because it seemed a bit dull but I have been reading a couple of history magazines with stories about the revolution and now I'm actually really interested to see how it will turn out. I just hope that it wont be Red Dead Redemptionish because I seriously didn't even finish that game, the landscape was just so open and uninteresting.

Now back to the main topic: My biggest problem with AC3 taking place in America now can be explained with this quote from "Monsters vs Aliens" -trailer

Once again, a UFO has landed in America, the only country UFOs ever seem to land in
I feel that enough movies and other forms of entertainment, not necessarily games though, already take place in America. It would have been refreshing to see the grand finale take place in somewhere else like France for example. Anyway, it is still AC and I will buy it just to see how the story ends and the game and its patriotism won't keep me up and night. Just thought that I would throw this in to the conversation, I hope this hasn't been discussed already; I didn't read through every page.

LightRey
03-08-2012, 03:14 PM
I haven't posted in a while, but thought this seems interesting enough to reply to.
I mainly don't have a problem with patriotism unless it is over the top because that is when things get ugly. At first I was slightly annoyed by the fact that AC3 will take place in America because it seemed a bit dull but I have been reading a couple of history magazines with stories about the revolution and now I'm actually really interested to see how it will turn out. I just hope that it wont be Red Dead Redemptionish because I seriously didn't even finish that game, the landscape was just so open and uninteresting.

Now back to the main topic: My biggest problem with AC3 taking place in America now can be explained with this quote from "Monsters vs Aliens" -trailer

I feel that enough movies and other forms of entertainment, not necessarily games though, already take place in America. It would have been refreshing to see the grand finale take place in somewhere else like France for example. Anyway, it is still AC and I will buy it just to see how the story ends and the game and its patriotism won't keep me up and night. Just thought that I would throw this in to the conversation, I hope this hasn't been discussed already; I didn't read through every page.

Nice quote. Well put.
I agree that America is a somewhat overused setting, but that is understandable considering the fact that a significant portion of the entertainment industry is based in the US. Aside from that, because I'm Dutch I actually know fairly little about American history. I'm very interested in what the American Revolution was like. This setting is much more alien to me than the Italian or Middle Eastern setting, so I'm actually thrilled to find out what's going to happen.

brick177
03-08-2012, 03:35 PM
Nice quote. Well put.
I agree that America is a somewhat overused setting, but that is understandable considering the fact that a significant portion of the entertainment industry is based in the US. Aside from that, because I'm Dutch I actually know fairly little about American history. I'm very interested in what the American Revolution was like. This setting is much more alien to me than the Italian or Middle Eastern setting, so I'm actually thrilled to find out what's going to happen.

The Dutch helped out some too. Here's what Wikipedia has to say about the Dutch involvement in the war:

Dutch Republic

The Dutch Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Republic) played a significant economic role in the war, but its military participation was limited, in part due to internal political divisions.

Johan Zoutman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Zoutman) was an admiral in the Dutch Navy. The navy's activities were largely ineffective, as many ships were blockaded in their home ports or captured when some of their colonial outposts were taken. Zoutman led the only notable attempt to break a convoy out of Dutch ports; he was thwarted by the British in the Battle of Dogger Bank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dogger_Bank_(1781)).
Reynier van Vlissingen (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reynier_van_Vlissingen&action=edit&redlink=1) was the governor of Negapatam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negapatam), the principal outpost of the Dutch East India Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company) in India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India). He directed the unsuccessful defense of Negapatam against a British-led siege (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Negapatam) in 1781.
Iman Willem Falck (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iman_Willem_Falck&action=edit&redlink=1) was the governor of Trincomalee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trincomalee), the principal outpost of the Dutch East India Company on the island of Ceylon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceylon). He directed the unsuccessful defense of that port against a British amphibious assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_Trincomalee).

LightRey
03-08-2012, 03:38 PM
The Dutch helped out some too. Here's what Wikipedia has to say about the Dutch involvement in the war:

Dutch Republic

The Dutch Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Republic) played a significant economic role in the war, but its military participation was limited, in part due to internal political divisions.

Johan Zoutman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Zoutman) was an admiral in the Dutch Navy. The navy's activities were largely ineffective, as many ships were blockaded in their home ports or captured when some of their colonial outposts were taken. Zoutman led the only notable attempt to break a convoy out of Dutch ports; he was thwarted by the British in the Battle of Dogger Bank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dogger_Bank_(1781)).
Reynier van Vlissingen (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reynier_van_Vlissingen&action=edit&redlink=1) was the governor of Negapatam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negapatam), the principal outpost of the Dutch East India Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company) in India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India). He directed the unsuccessful defense of Negapatam against a British-led siege (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Negapatam) in 1781.
Iman Willem Falck (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iman_Willem_Falck&action=edit&redlink=1) was the governor of Trincomalee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trincomalee), the principal outpost of the Dutch East India Company on the island of Ceylon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceylon). He directed the unsuccessful defense of that port against a British amphibious assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_Trincomalee).


Lol they were all unsuccessful. :(
But still, one guy has the same first name as I do, so he's awesome.

brick177
03-08-2012, 03:40 PM
Lol they were all unsuccessful. :(
But still, one guy has the same name as I do, so he's awesome.

Well, it took resources away from the British...so that helps... although it seems like they were all British instigated events, so they must have thought it was worth while. Yay, for United Provinces! Anyway, as far as I recall the merchant marine was far more influential, I'll have to see what I can find.

LightRey
03-08-2012, 03:43 PM
Well, it took resources away from the British...so that helps... although it seems like they were all British instigated events, so they must have thought it was worth while. Yay, for United Provinces! Anyway, as far as I recall the merchant marine was far more influential, I'll have to see what I can find.

This is cool. Kinda starting to feel patriotic about this game myself. :p

brick177
03-08-2012, 03:57 PM
This is cool. Kinda starting to feel patriotic about this game myself. :p

Here's what Wikipedia says anyway. It seems the Dutch were integral in arming the rebellion:

The Dutch Republic, nominally neutral, had been trading with the Americans, exchanging Dutch arms and munitions for American colonial wares (in contravention of the British Navigation Acts), primarily through activity based in St. Eustatius, before the French formally entered the war.[77] The British considered this trade to include contraband military supplies and had attempted to stop it, at first diplomatically by appealing to previous treaty obligations, interpretation of whose terms the two nations disagreed on, and then by searching and seizing Dutch merchant ships. The situation escalated when the British seized a Dutch merchant convoy sailing under Dutch naval escort in December 1779, prompting the Dutch to join the League of Armed Neutrality. Britain responded to this decision by declaring war on the Dutch in December 1780, sparking the Fourth Anglo-Dutch War.[78] The war was a military and economic disaster for the Dutch Republic. Paralyzed by internal political divisions, it could not respond effectively to British blockades of its coast and the capture of many of its colonies. In the 1784 peace treaty between the two nations, the Dutch lost the Indian port of Negapatam and were forced to make trade concessions.[79] The Dutch Republic signed a friendship and trade agreement with the United States in 1782, and was the second country (after France) to formally recognize the United States.[80]

Also found this cool page about the weapons the Dutch were sending to America:

http://www.11thpa.org/dutch-arms.html

LightRey
03-08-2012, 04:02 PM
Here's what Wikipedia says anyway. It seems the Dutch were integral in arming the rebellion:

The Dutch Republic, nominally neutral, had been trading with the Americans, exchanging Dutch arms and munitions for American colonial wares (in contravention of the British Navigation Acts), primarily through activity based in St. Eustatius, before the French formally entered the war.[77] The British considered this trade to include contraband military supplies and had attempted to stop it, at first diplomatically by appealing to previous treaty obligations, interpretation of whose terms the two nations disagreed on, and then by searching and seizing Dutch merchant ships. The situation escalated when the British seized a Dutch merchant convoy sailing under Dutch naval escort in December 1779, prompting the Dutch to join the League of Armed Neutrality. Britain responded to this decision by declaring war on the Dutch in December 1780, sparking the Fourth Anglo-Dutch War.[78] The war was a military and economic disaster for the Dutch Republic. Paralyzed by internal political divisions, it could not respond effectively to British blockades of its coast and the capture of many of its colonies. In the 1784 peace treaty between the two nations, the Dutch lost the Indian port of Negapatam and were forced to make trade concessions.[79] The Dutch Republic signed a friendship and trade agreement with the United States in 1782, and was the second country (after France) to formally recognize the United States.[80]

Also found this cool page about the weapons the Dutch were sending to America:

http://www.11thpa.org/dutch-arms.html

That's pretty cool. I already knew a little about the Fourth Anglo-Dutch War, but I wasn't aware of the significance of the American Revolution regarding it. All the more reason for me to kill some redcoats in ACIII I think.

Those weapons look pretty cool too. :P

brick177
03-08-2012, 04:07 PM
I think people forget that the British Empire was the world's bully back then, military troops on foreign soil all over the world, most powerful navy on the seas, all the treaties benefited them.....sort of like America now, but we like to think we're different. :P

LightRey
03-08-2012, 04:09 PM
I think people forget that the British Empire was the world's bully back then, military troops on foreign soil all over the world, most powerful navy on the seas, all the treaties benefited them.....sort of like America now, but we like to think we're different. :P

True. Though before them it was us. :P

brick177
03-08-2012, 04:17 PM
True. Though before them it was us. :P

lol. yeah, we've all had our turn around the block. Now that our "empire" is declining, it will probably be the Chinese, they own most of our currency anyway...

ShadowRage41
03-08-2012, 05:56 PM
The fact that Conner's village was destroyed by the Colonists yet is still fighting for them is the main problem for people in this situation.

This is not so unusual, even with the great nation of the Chiricahua Apache. During the Geronimo campaign there were quite a few Apache scouts. Believing peace with the United States was the only way the nation would survive, and they had respect for officers of the U.S military. Even Cochise treated with the United States military. Unlike many people the Apache in particular believed in the worth of a leader. if the leader was honest and kept their word, the nation would hold them in high esteem. Whatever happened to Conner's village could easily be attributed to a corrupt leader. Many Native American's would view a Man like Washington as a new direction for the Colonies and side with them against someone they felt was less than honest. Which the British proved to be. They did not include the Native America tribes "who fought beside them" in the treaty at the end of the war. Instead they gave to them as a reward lands they did not possess or have rights to.

You must keep in mind the Native American's in the United States might very well be on good terms with the United States Military and at the same time have a very hostile relationship with local governing people. many times especially in Arizona the Apache were protected by the U.S military. Then you have corrupt officials in Tombstone keeping the military provisions the U.S Gov provided for the nation and sending the nation rotten meat from dead cattle. The local officials in Tombstone had a bounty on Geronimo, and the Apache had a treaty with the U.S military. The Military actually escorted Geronimo to keep him from being lynched. The relationship between the tribes and the United states Gov was much more complicated than many people believe.

jatt100
03-08-2012, 06:01 PM
I just hope that the Colonies arent presented as these honest, noble, innocent people who just want to live in peace in AC3. They did more than their fair share of evil stuff.

But its already been said that, the Americans and British will both have their bad and good people.

SolidSage
03-08-2012, 06:37 PM
Nationalism is always a bad thing. In every case.

There are no good or positive aspects of nationalism.

Nationalism (or Patriotism, "love of your country/homeland", whatever you call it) is the cause for every major war since Napoleon. Nationalism separates and divides the continuous human race and sets us against each other. To people saying that you can be separate "in a good way", you are nothing but indoctrinated. Division, an "us and them" attitude, can never promote unity or progress. They promote only conflict, paranoia, and hatred.

All human beings are the same. We are part of one family, we all came from the same place, and we are all descended from the same original people. We are genetically almost identical to each other. Countries and nations are nothing but modern synonyms for tribes. Tribalism is an outdated and obsolete practice. Tribes are intrinsically and inherently violent. At the most basic level, a country is nothing more than a set of laws and a military. Countries are violent entities.

Concepts like a national identity, pride, and patriotism are all just tools to indoctrinate citizens in to maintaining the current power structure. "Nationalism" arose after the decline of religion to replace older concepts like the "Mandate of Heaven" in China and the "Divine Right of Kings" in Europe, which were also in place merely to maintain obedience.

Countries are much like "races". They are artificial, illusory social constructs that are intentionally created to divide people.

A country needs not be anything more than a set of laws. I am from the USA, and I do currently approve of the laws of my country, so I will choose to live there, because it's laws are consistent with my desires. If that changed, I would not hesitate to leave. I do not love my country, I do not care about my country. If another country can make my life better, I would move there right away.

Hopefully someday soon we can forget about divisions like this and just freely associate with anyone in the world that we choose to. Anything that you are born in to is a prison.


I disahree with this wholeheartedly. A Nation is a 'family', it's people are the members. some Nations allow you to marry into their family. Countries aren't like races, they have borders and restrictions to protect the ways of life that have been established therein.

I admire your desires for an open world and no borders but be realistic, would you open your home and allow any stranger off the street to walk among your children and impose their beliefs and perspectives on them? I highly doubt it. Countries exist as entities so peoples are free to a degree to have a sanctuary for their beliefs and desire for the world. You mentioned religion being a method of control, some might agree, others might suggest that religion is a crutch for those with spiritual ailments to be supported by, for others still it may simply be a method for strengthening community, but the point is, people who share beliefs that don't coincide with your own can still find a place (country) that their personal beliefs on God, Religion, Culture whatever, are respected and remain inract and are protected.

Of course, individuals and groups within Governements use the associated power to pervert the direction of things for their own purposes and it is up to the people to police those types.

Countries are like companies also, can you imagine trying to run an economy for the entire business without breaking it down into categories and departments etc? Ti tackle any major twsk the most effective method is to break it down into managable bite size chunks, you can't stuff the entire cake in your mouth in one go and think you're not goign to choke. Think of countries and states as 'departments', each with their own sub administration designed to manage the bulk load of the globe. Perhaps then you may not see everything in such a negative light.

SolidSage
03-08-2012, 06:50 PM
I never attacked the Americans?
I'm going to assume their is a lot of anti-America on this site?

Anyway, all I said was that all of the games, and movies,etc, are all set in America or they center around Americans.

You're kidding right? Your on the AC forum, of which there have been 4 games already, did you play any of them?

Jayden26
03-09-2012, 12:59 AM
Those aren't set in Australia, they're just racing tracks.

Kit572
03-09-2012, 01:02 AM
Those aren't set in Australia, they're just racing tracks.


....why are you talking about australia? IS SOMETHING BAD GOING DOWN?!

Jayden26
03-09-2012, 01:04 AM
I was responding to a previous question about Australia. Not to you.

protoblood
03-09-2012, 01:07 AM
Modern warfeare did something similar by killing all the african amaricans in favala...if thats spelt right...
no one cared... its a game made for fun but do tell alot of history.
Every game needs a storyline, this just so happends to be the Assassins creed story. An awsome game, why complain?

LightRey
03-09-2012, 01:19 AM
I was responding to a previous question about Australia. Not to you.

Then you should quote the post you're responding to.

ArD117
03-09-2012, 05:04 AM
It's honorable to serve for your nation, it isn't honorable to follow the lies your nation may put on you. This doesn't just include the US, but other countries as well. If you want to be above superficiality, then stop following cultural norms and look at events like the American Revolution without the usual criticism of the modern United States that follows such a subject.

The United States isn't a person, you can't simplify its people and culture into a few words of distaste. It's one of the most populated countries in the world, filled with a variety of different cultures and ethnic groups. Fearing that a game set in America will unfairly glorify it's people is like fearing that a game set in the Italian Renaissance (AC 2) will ignore the corruption underneath the splendor if its artwork or the Crusades in the Middle East (AC 1) will ignore the grey areas of the Crusaders and the Muslims.

Point is, by being so fearful, you come off as a fool rather than an intellectual.

gmoney8869
03-09-2012, 10:56 AM
I disahree with this wholeheartedly. A Nation is a 'family', it's people are the members. some Nations allow you to marry into their family. Countries aren't like races, they have borders and restrictions to protect the ways of life that have been established therein.

I admire your desires for an open world and no borders but be realistic, would you open your home and allow any stranger off the street to walk among your children and impose their beliefs and perspectives on them? I highly doubt it. Countries exist as entities so peoples are free to a degree to have a sanctuary for their beliefs and desire for the world. You mentioned religion being a method of control, some might agree, others might suggest that religion is a crutch for those with spiritual ailments to be supported by, for others still it may simply be a method for strengthening community, but the point is, people who share beliefs that don't coincide with your own can still find a place (country) that their personal beliefs on God, Religion, Culture whatever, are respected and remain inract and are protected.

Of course, individuals and groups within Governements use the associated power to pervert the direction of things for their own purposes and it is up to the people to police those types.

Countries are like companies also, can you imagine trying to run an economy for the entire business without breaking it down into categories and departments etc? Ti tackle any major twsk the most effective method is to break it down into managable bite size chunks, you can't stuff the entire cake in your mouth in one go and think you're not goign to choke. Think of countries and states as 'departments', each with their own sub administration designed to manage the bulk load of the globe. Perhaps then you may not see everything in such a negative light.

Thanks for a whole series of unsubstantiated metaphors. A nation is like none of those things.

FYI, anyone can just state that things are analogous without any evidence. You say a nation is like a family or a company, but here's the difference. Families dont kill people. Companies don't imprison people. Families and Companies are free associations of people who choose to be with one another, either to provide social structure or to generate profit.

No, I would not "allow a stranger in to my home and impose his beliefs on me". My home is my own private property. And I certainly did not suggest that anyone should be imposing anything on anybody. That is something that nations do, which is why their importance and power should be minimized.

I also do not think that there should be one government that rules everyone by itself. Even if there was a world government of some kind, which might be an improvement depending on what it's like, obviously there would be regional sub divisions just like in any country today. In the US we have "states" and we have counties and we have towns. Those chunks bite size enough for you?

We can still have "departments" as you say. We just don't need to have our departments wage war on each other.

LightRey
03-09-2012, 12:15 PM
Thanks for a whole series of unsubstantiated metaphors. A nation is like none of those things.

FYI, anyone can just state that things are analogous without any evidence. You say a nation is like a family or a company, but here's the difference. Families dont kill people. Companies don't imprison people. Families and Companies are free associations of people who choose to be with one another, either to provide social structure or to generate profit.

No, I would not "allow a stranger in to my home and impose his beliefs on me". My home is my own private property. And I certainly did not suggest that anyone should be imposing anything on anybody. That is something that nations do, which is why their importance and power should be minimized.

I also do not think that there should be one government that rules everyone by itself. Even if there was a world government of some kind, which might be an improvement depending on what it's like, obviously there would be regional sub divisions just like in any country today. In the US we have "states" and we have counties and we have towns. Those chunks bite size enough for you?

We can still have "departments" as you say. We just don't need to have our departments wage war on each other.

Actually, families do kill people (the Italian maffia comes to mind) and companies do imprison people (or at least force them to work under such terrible conditions that they want to commit suicide.

Your entire argument is based on the notion that divisions caused by nationalism cause conflicts. There is absolutely no conclusive evidence for that.

Acrimonious_Nin
03-09-2012, 03:28 PM
Thanks for a whole series of unsubstantiated metaphors. A nation is like none of those things.

FYI, anyone can just state that things are analogous without any evidence. You say a nation is like a family or a company, but here's the difference. Families dont kill people. Companies don't imprison people. Families and Companies are free associations of people who choose to be with one another, either to provide social structure or to generate profit.

No, I would not "allow a stranger in to my home and impose his beliefs on me". My home is my own private property. And I certainly did not suggest that anyone should be imposing anything on anybody. That is something that nations do, which is why their importance and power should be minimized.

I also do not think that there should be one government that rules everyone by itself. Even if there was a world government of some kind, which might be an improvement depending on what it's like, obviously there would be regional sub divisions just like in any country today. In the US we have "states" and we have counties and we have towns. Those chunks bite size enough for you?

We can still have "departments" as you say. We just don't need to have our departments wage war on each other.

you have a good point :D and your logic is stable, nations should be minimized in power and stop imposing behind a veil of symptoms that stem from a fascist birth mark ;)

and division created by man, throughout history, have always caused conflict. Conflicting Ideologies always help spark a fire amongst tribes, families(and their values), and nations and their interests.

KrYpToNiC95
03-09-2012, 04:23 PM
Its almost confirmed that there will be a lot of bias towards the Continental Army. The red coats will be the larger enemies in the game. I got this from the EB Games website, which is gamespot Australia.

Join the Continental Army in a war for our freedom. With your comrades at your side, hunt down the British redcoats through chaotic city streets, and engage in full-scale military assaults in the wilderness. Experience the real war that shaped our nation

Americans will be shown as the good guys more than likely.

metal572432
03-09-2012, 07:06 PM
Its almost confirmed that there will be a lot of bias towards the Continental Army. The red coats will be the larger enemies in the game. I got this from the EB Games website, which is gamespot Australia.

Join the Continental Army in a war for our freedom. With your comrades at your side, hunt down the British redcoats through chaotic city streets, and engage in full-scale military assaults in the wilderness. Experience the real war that shaped our nation

Americans will be shown as the good guys more than likely.

I don't think that really proves anything, because if you look at the amazon.co.uk page for it, it says "18th Century North America. After more than 20 years of conflict, the 13 American colonies and the British Crown are on the brink of all out war. Battle lines are drawn. Bloodshed is inevitable. Out of the embers of his burning village, a new assassin will rise. Born of Mohawk and British blood, his fight for freedom and justice will be forged in the flames of revolution.

Eliminate your foes with an expanded arsenal of weaponry including Bows, Pistols, the Tomahawk and the signature blade of the Assassin’s Order.

Explore densely populated cities, situated along the vast wilderness of a dangerous frontier.

An all new game engine delivers the brutality and beauty of a nation caught in an epic war for independence. "

The main thing worrying me at this point is this quote "Hutchinson maintained that the American Revolution setting would be relevant and exciting to a contemporary audience. "This concept of helping a nation fight for freedom is a primal desire, we believe," he said. " (taken from this article http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-09-assassins-creed-3-will-be-back-to-basics ). But hopefully the assassins wont side completely with either side (which would still make the quote true, because some of their actions would be helping the americans while some would be aiding the british. or maybe it is possible that he is referring to the templars which will probably be on both sides?).

SolidSage
03-09-2012, 08:11 PM
Thanks for a whole series of unsubstantiated metaphors. A nation is like none of those things.

FYI, anyone can just state that things are analogous without any evidence. You say a nation is like a family or a company, but here's the difference. Families dont kill people. Companies don't imprison people. Families and Companies are free associations of people who choose to be with one another, either to provide social structure or to generate profit.

No, I would not "allow a stranger in to my home and impose his beliefs on me". My home is my own private property. And I certainly did not suggest that anyone should be imposing anything on anybody. That is something that nations do, which is why their importance and power should be minimized.

I also do not think that there should be one government that rules everyone by itself. Even if there was a world government of some kind, which might be an improvement depending on what it's
like, obviously there would be regional sub divisions just like in any country today. In the US we have "states" and we have counties and we have towns. Those chunks bite size enough for you?

We can still have "departments" as you say. We just don't need to have our departments wage war on each other.


No more unsubstantiated than your own extremist pessimistic claims. Nations don't define the direction of the people, the people define the direction of the Nation. Leaders get in through election or lack of opposition. Your claim about the Nazi regime being pushed by the Administrators of the nation is backwards, Hitler gave the people an EXCUSE to pursue heinous approaches, and he supported the shared mindset, he didn't form it or invent it and then force it on his people. That wasn't Nationalism, it was evil and racism that used Nationalism as a disguise.

Thinking there will be less war without borders is fiction, there will be more.

A nation is exactly like a family. You defend your home from whoever might try to take it, your neighborhood has a neighborhood watch, your city has it's own police force, your state has it's own funding, your country maintains it's laws within it's borders and the world unites to repel alien invasion. It's a natural heirarchy that occurs throughout all animal life on the planet, starting with mate to mate and offspring.
Deny it all you want, it's not going to change because you'd prefer it another way. The second you lose your borders your going to lose your way of life too. Patriotism is no different than putting a fence around your own yard so your neighbors don't have their dog crap on your grass instead of their own, and then being proud of your 'crap free' lawn.

Go ahead now, display your distaste for metaphors along with conventions that have proven to make the world a better place than it was before. Go ahead, argue that too, tell me how the World was better in the 40's, or the 20's, or the 1800's or even before that, when tribes were free to be invaded and raided and pillaged by anyone that could manage to make the journey across any 'naturally' occuring border, like an ocean or a mountain range or a desert, before Nations chose to defend those borders with Patriots who valued their chosen way of life over the will of any entity that would choose to change it. NATURALLY occuring borders.

How would you do it anyway, one currency for everyone? One set of laws for everyone? Or better yet, no laws? While your desire may be benevolent, the fundamental principle is based on unsound logic, it can't work. Explain languages while your at it, another national border, what language will we all be forced to speak in your bordeless world? Will you be able to ship in livestock from different continents without check?
The borders between states in the US alone allow different ways of live to be pursued throughout the country, an adjustment of the laws relative to the local mindset. Look at current events like marriage, do you think those issues would get as much attention and progress if the borders between states didn't afford those particular locations the FREEDOM to have different takes on the law?
I think your idea of how it should be is more oppressive and stripping of freedom than the Nationalism you accuse of the same.

Until ALL places and ALL peoples agree on a single set of laws and way of life for everyone there can be no benefit from the loss of borders, and in turn Nationalism and National Pride/Patriotism.
AC3' is using the American Revolution as a setting which was basically the establishment of a Nation and it's borders and the rise of Patriotism for a specific land in order to rebel against the OPPRESSORS of the period who thought there should be no border or limit to the reach of their own taxation and tyranny. (Nothing against England, it was my home for a very long time but that particular Empire and it's ways were the result of a Government thinking there were no borders to it's holdings. Granted, the Empire did a lot to benefit the World, even when it was wrong at times, Australia and The US in particular are examples of how great things can thrive even out of erroneous objectives).

Again, your desire for a borderless Utopia is admirable but it's not realistic, and any big changes that take place in short periods of time are rarely beneficial. An 'errosion' of the status quo is how society evolves, checks and balances and decisions based on experience and education learned. You have to walk before you run, (another meaningless metaphor for you).

De Filosoof
03-09-2012, 08:29 PM
I love these kinda discussions:).
Maybe some day people will learn.

De Filosoof
03-09-2012, 08:39 PM
@ Solidsage. I understand your point, but you should do some more research.
Believe me, there are solutions out there for this cancerous system.
Nations, politicians, presidents, the men behind the curtain, religions, big corporations, they all try to devide people.
How else can they justify war if everybody understands we are actually all one?
Devide and conquer, that's the motto:)
Comparing humans to animals is just a weak excuse.
Most animal can't think like humans and most wild animals live in scarcity, so they're kinda forced to live in a certain way.
Do you think that when a cat kills a mouse he consiously thinks about himself robbing a mouse from his life? They don't and they can't. Humans can.
We have the brains, the ability, the know-how and the technology to make a world free from scarcity. But that won't help the rich elite with expanding their huge bank accounts. You have to remember, this system is created by the rich, for the rich.

Oh and people make rules because they don't know how to solve the problems.
Maybe we should focus a little bit more on solving the problems first before we put laws and rules on everything.

De Filosoof
03-09-2012, 09:20 PM
Its almost confirmed that there will be a lot of bias towards the Continental Army. The red coats will be the larger enemies in the game. I got this from the EB Games website, which is gamespot Australia.

Join the Continental Army in a war for our freedom. With your comrades at your side, hunt down the British redcoats through chaotic city streets, and engage in full-scale military assaults in the wilderness. Experience the real war that shaped our nation

Americans will be shown as the good guys more than likely.

Dude....It's Assassin's creed not ****ing captain America.

SolidSage
03-09-2012, 09:27 PM
@ Solidsage. I understand your point, but you should do some more research.
Believe me, there are solutions out there for this cancerous system.
Nations, religions, big corporations, they all try to devide people.
How else can they justify war if everybody understands we are actually all one?
Devide and conquer, that's the motto:).

Oh yes, people make rules because they don't know how to solve the problems.
Maybe we should focus a little bit more on solving the problems first before we put laws and rules on everything.

What cancerous system, War? You think Nations and Corporations invented War? I think you need to do some research too.
People kill people and have being doing so since the start, before nations. Generally because it was the easiest way to get wealthy fast.
Yes corporations want us all to be consumers, and Goverments want to keep eveyone in check, but pointing the finger at these faceless entities like they are somw kind of auto villain is wrong. People run Governements and Corporations, and both of those things are different than Nationalism and Patriotism.

I'm not saying that there aren't corrupt systems out there, but they are corrupt because of the PEOPLE who pursued the power associated with being employed by said entity. Borders, nationalism and patriotism have nothing to do with the corruption itself. I will concede however that they can be appealed to in a manner that does allow for some manipulation of the people to a point. Citizens can be convinced to believe something or someone is a threat based on how the Government paints the picture and how that 'threat' is portrayed to the people. But at the same time, fear (manipulated or justified) doesn't make a sensible man/woman think that seperating families and putting them into gas chambers, and commiting mass genocide is a sensible approach. That's a type of animal that is created over long years.
You've probably experienced it yourself in school, there are generally amiable people and then there are just some that love and thrive on inflicting pain, and forcing their will on others. All Nations have them, and some of them get into positions of power. The people of a nation have to police that mindset or it will run amok. Without borders it will be even easier for those types to unify with more of their own kind. Can you imagine if Stalin and Hitler and Saddam were all part of a global borderless world, where they were free to form a united military? The national divides limiting that eventuality alone proves it's worth.

There are of course ways to better the systems, removing the corrupt and the villains from positions of power where they can do harm on a massive scale for starters. But good luck identifying them and not becoming a villain yourself when employing the difficult methods required to enact those defensive measures.

Decrying Patriotism is like perpetuating the belief that one shouldn't be proud of or support their family in it's endeavours. I shouldn't applaud my kids when they are successful?
Patriotism doesn't require one to turn a blind eye to the mistakes or wrong doings of their country, it is simply displaying pride for the good that HAS been done and showing some unity in support of the general consensus.
The US IS a great place to live, that's just a simple fact. Being proud of the liberties and freedoms it offers doesn't mean I approve of all the wrong doing that goes on here. I am sure there are plenty of other countries whose citizens are thankful for the ways of life they are afforded, regardless of the fact that the countrie's aren't perfect and need improvement.

De Filosoof
03-09-2012, 09:29 PM
Maybe If they showed some real news and information on TV, with background stories and real educational stuff instead of all the brain-numbing crap that's always on, maybe people wouldn't be this ignorant and blind.

metal572432
03-09-2012, 09:31 PM
just got the latest issue of game informer, it says "In this tale, not all the American colonists are good guys, nor are the British cast exclusively in the role of evil oppressors, and the team hopes to use the game to highlight how the Assassins' and Templars' both exist on a gray moral spectrum." This, and the the fact it also says the game's main focus will not be the revolution, but about the war between the Assassin's and the Templars, pretty much answers the question in my mind. The assassins will not be taking sides.

Tetsou88
03-09-2012, 09:51 PM
Ubisoft is French, so why is everyone spouting the "I HOPE THE GAME ISN"T FULL OF PATRIOTISM" line. I could understand how this could be a concern if an American company was making it, but they aren't.

Also one of the earlier posters has a good point, everyone is up in arms about the British being killed, but never mind all the Muslims, Christians, Italians, Turkish, and French people we've killed.

SolidSage
03-09-2012, 09:54 PM
^ MY Assassin will be taking sides. He's going after the mandatory Templar targets, any Herald that feels like spreading rumors about him, anyone that gets in the way and makes him stumble during a chase, guards in general, ANYONE that thinks it's their job to tell him to get off a roof and random bum's and panhandlers as he see's fit....also Heralds, did I mention Heralds?
And on his side are hot chicks nice people.

RichardHaro
03-09-2012, 09:56 PM
http://i.imgur.com/9dc45.jpg

notafanboy
03-09-2012, 09:57 PM
Ubisoft is French, so why is everyone spouting the "I HOPE THE GAME ISN"T FULL OF PATRIOTISM" line. I could understand how this could be a concern if an American company was making it, but they aren't.

Also one of the earlier posters has a good point, everyone is up in arms about the British being killed, but never mind all the Muslims, Christians, Italians, Turkish, and French people we've killed.
not to mention all of the crusaders we´ve killed in AC1 that were from germany, france and scandinavia.

edit- @above: im pissed if that is the CE

SolidSage
03-09-2012, 09:59 PM
@RichardHaro

Ooooo, way to throw gasoline on the fire bro!

De Filosoof
03-09-2012, 10:06 PM
http://bokertov.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451bc4a69e2011168fcd389970c-800wi

De Filosoof
03-09-2012, 10:11 PM
http://i.imgur.com/9dc45.jpg

It would actually be a nice strategy for letting pro-American people buy the game and teach them some history and other stuff. Lol.

jmk1999
03-09-2012, 11:13 PM
well, i was away for a day and this topic's not gotten much better. hope you had your fun. closed.