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View Full Version : Here is the solution to the "Add-on" vs "stand alone" issue-IMO



Excelsior-MU
04-02-2004, 11:46 PM
Here is the solution to the "Add-on" vs "Stand alone" issue:

PF itself should be a sold as a stand alone game at full retail price (if you are doing that much work, i want you to get paid). Any person should be able to buy it and play it off the shelf.

If you own IL-2:FB and and/or AEP, then you should also be allowed to fly and use those aircraft in PF and vice versa. All missions, maps, and campaigns should be automatically implemented into PF if you have them.

Across the board compatibility should be implemented, especially online. This is what I mean by that statement:

You should be able to go online and play with everyone else in the community whether you have just FB, FB+AEP, PF, PF+FB, PF+FB+AEP, PF+AEP.

A company that did this with another game was (dare I say it) Microsoft with their MechWarrior: Mercenaries game. There was the original game and then 2 mech packs that were released. You could go online and play against people who had the mech packs installed even if you didn't. You may have been at a disadvantage though because you couldnt use the superior mechs that were in the mech packs. The same should apply with all of these games.

You should be able to go online and fly with people who own different games or variations of games, however, you should only be allowed to fly the aircraft that came with your game/expansion. The other aircraft that you see online (and you would only see them online) would be those of people who own the other games.

Concerning maps however, only allow for multiplayer maps to crossover. This way someone who only owns PF can't go fly pacific aircraft in Normandy or Moscow, but someone who owns all 3 (FB+AEP+PF) can.

How would you do this? Ship with PF the external models and default paint schemes of the FB and AEP aircraft. This will allow for players to see the other planes online only. You could put them in the reference section too, but put in Big Red Letters that its only available in FB or AEP.

As for FB and AEP, there will have to be a patch that puts all of the PF aircraft external models into those games so they may fly against people with PF even if they don't have it yet.

This might even put you in a position of universal patches too: one patch for all 3 games.

Concerning new ground objects/ships/units/etc, allow them in all games, but only allow them to be placed by people who own that particular game. This is what I mean by that statement:

Say someone who only has PF installed hosts a multiplayer game on a pacific MP map. He has 1 ground base and 1 carrier for each team. Someone who only had FB installed could join his game, but would be limited to flying FB aircraft from the ground base. He would be able to see and attack the carrier (and any other new objects), but he himself would not have access to them in his own mission editor. Same thing for someone who only owns PF joining a FB multiplayer map. He would be able to see the ground objects and units from FB and attack them, but he would not have access to them in his editor.

Marketing advantages of this: The pacific fighters game is going to draw in more (in my opinion a lot more) people then just the IL-2 people. Allowing them to see all the other aircraft from the other games and fly against them in MP, but not fly them themselves, will entice them to potentially go out and buy the other games (I'm sure all the programers and UBI people know this, but perhaps there are some readers of the forum who may not). Allow people to view the other aircraft in the reference section and perhaps even put a few of the FB/AEP aircraft/objects into PF to give them just a taste of what they are missing out on.

If someone really loves PF, more then likely, he/she will go out and get FB+AEP.

This is of course my opinion and discussion is welcome. (Man I am long winded aren't I http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). One more thing just in case anyone is wondering (probably not), I play almost exclusivly online. I have played less then 5% of the single player game.

-Excelsior-MU

[This message was edited by Excelsior-MU on Fri April 02 2004 at 11:02 PM.]

Excelsior-MU
04-02-2004, 11:46 PM
Here is the solution to the "Add-on" vs "Stand alone" issue:

PF itself should be a sold as a stand alone game at full retail price (if you are doing that much work, i want you to get paid). Any person should be able to buy it and play it off the shelf.

If you own IL-2:FB and and/or AEP, then you should also be allowed to fly and use those aircraft in PF and vice versa. All missions, maps, and campaigns should be automatically implemented into PF if you have them.

Across the board compatibility should be implemented, especially online. This is what I mean by that statement:

You should be able to go online and play with everyone else in the community whether you have just FB, FB+AEP, PF, PF+FB, PF+FB+AEP, PF+AEP.

A company that did this with another game was (dare I say it) Microsoft with their MechWarrior: Mercenaries game. There was the original game and then 2 mech packs that were released. You could go online and play against people who had the mech packs installed even if you didn't. You may have been at a disadvantage though because you couldnt use the superior mechs that were in the mech packs. The same should apply with all of these games.

You should be able to go online and fly with people who own different games or variations of games, however, you should only be allowed to fly the aircraft that came with your game/expansion. The other aircraft that you see online (and you would only see them online) would be those of people who own the other games.

Concerning maps however, only allow for multiplayer maps to crossover. This way someone who only owns PF can't go fly pacific aircraft in Normandy or Moscow, but someone who owns all 3 (FB+AEP+PF) can.

How would you do this? Ship with PF the external models and default paint schemes of the FB and AEP aircraft. This will allow for players to see the other planes online only. You could put them in the reference section too, but put in Big Red Letters that its only available in FB or AEP.

As for FB and AEP, there will have to be a patch that puts all of the PF aircraft external models into those games so they may fly against people with PF even if they don't have it yet.

This might even put you in a position of universal patches too: one patch for all 3 games.

Concerning new ground objects/ships/units/etc, allow them in all games, but only allow them to be placed by people who own that particular game. This is what I mean by that statement:

Say someone who only has PF installed hosts a multiplayer game on a pacific MP map. He has 1 ground base and 1 carrier for each team. Someone who only had FB installed could join his game, but would be limited to flying FB aircraft from the ground base. He would be able to see and attack the carrier (and any other new objects), but he himself would not have access to them in his own mission editor. Same thing for someone who only owns PF joining a FB multiplayer map. He would be able to see the ground objects and units from FB and attack them, but he would not have access to them in his editor.

Marketing advantages of this: The pacific fighters game is going to draw in more (in my opinion a lot more) people then just the IL-2 people. Allowing them to see all the other aircraft from the other games and fly against them in MP, but not fly them themselves, will entice them to potentially go out and buy the other games (I'm sure all the programers and UBI people know this, but perhaps there are some readers of the forum who may not). Allow people to view the other aircraft in the reference section and perhaps even put a few of the FB/AEP aircraft/objects into PF to give them just a taste of what they are missing out on.

If someone really loves PF, more then likely, he/she will go out and get FB+AEP.

This is of course my opinion and discussion is welcome. (Man I am long winded aren't I http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). One more thing just in case anyone is wondering (probably not), I play almost exclusivly online. I have played less then 5% of the single player game.

-Excelsior-MU

[This message was edited by Excelsior-MU on Fri April 02 2004 at 11:02 PM.]

TPCMike
04-03-2004, 12:23 AM
I don't see how that's going to work.

Let's say I have Pac Fighters and you don't and we both join the same server.

I pick a Hellcat to fly, what do you see? I'm in an aircraft that's not in your game. How can you see it?

Tech PC (http://www.tech-pc.co.uk)
PC hardware discussion and tech support (http://www.tech-pc.co.uk/forum)
http://www.tech-pc.co.uk/mike/b17sig.jpg

Excelsior-MU
04-03-2004, 12:35 AM
Sure you would. The hellcat external model and flight model (I forgot to mention flight model above) will have already been patched into the other games so you could see it in game; the programming would be such that you just wouldnt be able to choose it from your list. Even if it was in the list, no cockpit would make it difficult. The patch would of course have to be released at the same time PF is released.

I know this would probably take a lot of work on the part of the programers, so its up to you guys if you want to go through the work to do this. I personally think this solution would be good for everyone.

TPCMike
04-03-2004, 12:38 AM
So every item for PF would get patched into FB and the AEP?

I don't see that happening.

Tech PC (http://www.tech-pc.co.uk)
PC hardware discussion and tech support (http://www.tech-pc.co.uk/forum)
http://www.tech-pc.co.uk/mike/b17sig.jpg

luthier1
04-03-2004, 12:39 AM
You realize this would take years of work - not to mention it'd require all owners of pre-PF sims to download hundreds of megabytes of patches? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

ARSNL
04-03-2004, 03:56 AM
Better soulution... upgrade version for the people who own FB/AEP or a full version including all previous material for those starting from scratch. That way all players at the PF (3.0??) level would be compatable.

This would be best for the community IMO but increased develompent cost may make it unfeasable.

http://www.digitalmelee.com/arsenal/Arse242.gif

javierlopez1
04-03-2004, 06:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ARSNL:
Better soulution... upgrade version for the people who own FB/AEP or a full version including all previous material for those starting from scratch. That way all players at the PF (3.0??) level would be compatable.

This would be best for the community IMO but increased develompent cost may make it unfeasable.

http://www.digitalmelee.com/arsenal/Arse242.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

agreed

04-03-2004, 10:46 AM
Pacific Fighters will be a best seller, just like all the Pacific Sims that came along before it.
1C has become a respected software developer after all.

Anybody that wants Aircraft Carrier take offs and landings in a Pacific Theatre, will just have to buy it wont they.

Thats the bottom line, and it wont change.

Cheers

Fennec_P
04-03-2004, 12:06 PM
Those mechpacks were BS.

MW4: Mercs shipped with the mechs already in the game, but they just forced you to shell out for two extra addons to enable them. That is how they achieved this magical backward compatibility. They could just as easily have included these mechs in the original game for free.

And that is maybe 10 megs of textures and meshes for the two packs combined.

BlackPhenix
04-03-2004, 12:41 PM
I thought Luthier was clear that he plans to make them work together? There is no logical reason not too. The stuff from IL-2 original is all in FB. It makes sense to continue to allow the loyal customers the opportunity to use what they have invested in with this new pacific sim.

The only thing I would say to you Luthier is not to fool around with this isssue and maybe get these polls and threads closed. It is adding to the confusion because it gives the impression that not only is it not decided, but the vocal minority can stop it from happening by screamning loud enough. I was here last year when these same few tried to "pursuade" Oleg not to include just about "EVERTHING" released in the AEP because it was not "realistic". Oleg had the foresight not to listen to that garbage and I hope that you do too.

luthier1
04-03-2004, 12:46 PM
It looks like I am still not clear on this issue unfortunately. It is NOT yet decided upon. And to be absolutely honest with you guys, the amount of forum posts on the issue isn't going to influence the final decision one way or another. It's not a political decision, it's a business decision.

And we know you guys well enough to have anticipated the exact response we're seeing the first time this question even came up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So we've always included the community's opinion on this whenever discussing the issue.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

BlackPhenix
04-03-2004, 01:06 PM
3-31-04 by Luthier
"Nothing has been decided yet to the best of my knowledge. The only thing I can say at this point that the two products will be fully compatible and there's no technical limitations in the engine that would prevent a Bf-109 from flying over Iwo Jima or an Aichi Val over Leningrad."
---------
4-3-04 by Luthier
"It looks like I am still not clear on this issue unfortunately. It is NOT yet decided upon. It's not a political decision, it's a business decision."

These statements remind me of a politician.

Ok, that is good enough for me. I just hope you guys do the right thing for business http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-03-2004, 09:36 PM
Just market PF as a expansion pack at stand alone price. Some still fly 1.22 and some fly 2.0 now.

FB could be 1.22
FB+AEP would 2.0 or 2.1 after patch ect.
PF would be 1.0
PF+FB+AEP would be something like 3.0

You get my point http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
=S=

I think most including myself would be happier if PF and Fb would be in some way playable together. This could be a solution.

http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/images/hellcat_head_short.jpg