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View Full Version : Saw somebody in ending of revelation outside the Van(maybe Eve)(Spoiler Alert0



razaqazee
02-04-2012, 08:55 PM
Hey guys,
I saw something that may have been posted before while I was busy analyzing it. During the ending when Desmond wakes up form his Coma, and William M. opens the Van, you can clearly see a person (looks more like a woman) from the window, outside the Van, left to William. She is staring at the entrance of the Vault and glows when William fully opens the door (from the apple maybe?) I will post some evidence to prove it.

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p514/razaqazy/img3.png
This shows the figure's red outline


http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p514/razaqazy/img2.png
Another pic on this.

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p514/razaqazy/img4.png
This image shows the figure glowing very brightly, left to the tree, (Maybe because of the illuminating Apple next to Desmond? Maybe she was a TWCB as Minerva and Juno also glow???)

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p514/razaqazy/img5.png
Hidden bonus!!! This image is the very last frame of the video right before the game is ended. It is shown after the Vault is activated and the camera is zooming into the center of the Circle Golden Symbol. It feels weird how that image shows something, or somebody, standing right in the middle, waiting at the door... Dont you think??? I will make a clearer outline on it....

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p514/razaqazy/img6.png
Here you go!!!

So what do you guys think. I personally feel I finally accomplished something. Give your thoughts and idea on this.

Adogg4444
02-04-2012, 09:12 PM
Nice find! I know that it wouldn't make much sense, but the person standing in the entrance of the vault at the very end kind of looks like...Desmond? Of course, the picture is so distorted that there's no way to tell who it is for sure.

LightRey
02-04-2012, 10:06 PM
It's a little hard to make out and it might not actually mean anything, but it's certainly very interesting.

Serrachio
02-04-2012, 11:16 PM
It may just be Desmond's mother.

If Bill Miles is still alive, who'd to say his mother isn't alive either?

roostersrule2
02-05-2012, 12:01 AM
It's Minerva or Juno I think but it's definitely a TWCB.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 12:10 AM
Let's not jump to conclusions again. I'm not even sure if it's a person.

roostersrule2
02-05-2012, 01:05 AM
Let's not jump to conclusions again. I'm not even sure if it's a person.I've seen better quality pictures and it's definitely a TWCB.

mustash
02-05-2012, 01:11 AM
It's Juno. See here. See this thread I made a while back for more discussion http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/529583-Assassins-Creed-Revelations-Ending-Secret-Spoilers (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/529583-Assassins-Creed-Revelations-Ending-Secret-Spoilers)http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120115124508/assassinscreed/images/2/2b/ACR_ending_-_Juno.jpg

Acrimonious_Nin
02-05-2012, 02:53 AM
lol i saw this during my nth playthrough but its way to fast to pick up thanks for bring this to the light with picks!... what are the chances that it is venus? since the ending symbol on the door is the astrological sign of venus? venus is the goddess of love, beauty, sex, fertility, prosperity and military victory. All these traits are kinda almost in line with a female for desmond lol especially the military victrory(with the war between assassins and templars...) and at the end the symbol kinda looks like a females sexual reproductive system. I am assuming assassin female(or templar) that falls in love with desmond and has a son, which is the son s16 was talking about in brotherhood lol... or something like she might be holding eve's dna since thats all he needs....and no son... door just opens....son is a typo and had us going....thank you...

kalo.yanis
02-05-2012, 04:05 AM
I think that's Juno.

Serrachio
02-05-2012, 04:15 AM
You can't even see her face, and since when did Juno wear orange?

zStrictStyle
02-05-2012, 06:42 AM
Maybe they will be there in the next game to guide Desmond through the Grand Temple or something like that.

Kit572
02-05-2012, 07:14 AM
Maybe ubisoft is screwing with us?

LightRey
02-05-2012, 01:37 PM
It's Juno. See here. See this thread I made a while back for more discussion http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/529583-Assassins-Creed-Revelations-Ending-Secret-Spoilers (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/529583-Assassins-Creed-Revelations-Ending-Secret-Spoilers)http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120115124508/assassinscreed/images/2/2b/ACR_ending_-_Juno.jpg

Eh, that doesn't look like Juno. In fact, as mentioned above, it looks an awful lot like what one would expect Venus to look like. Sounds like there might actually be something more to the Apple of Discord myth.

GLHS
02-05-2012, 03:33 PM
Honestly, I never made much of conclusion on this, since it's obvious it's a woman, but so difficult to tell anything else. I think many people are making a little bit too big of a deal about the glow aspect, b/c the way that they zoom and do the light, really everything is glowing. And the last frame thing, I can't see a person at all, and again, I think it's people trying to see things that aren't there. As far as it being Juno, I had never made a decision, but I'm really kinda thinkin it might be for a couple reasons. She has her hair in front and it's kinda positioned like the way Juno's looks, and also the veil (for lack of a better word) on her head looks close to the same thing. The only other thing that kinda makes it make sense is just b/c she was the one that more explained everything about the door and the gate and all that. So maybe when AC3 opens up, she will appear there to Desmond to further guide him.

Here's some pics of her just to re-freshen your memory and better see what I mean.

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o367/Gsmacklover/20101120060910Juno1.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o367/Gsmacklover/ACB-Juno.jpg

And this one is her on the left in somewhat the same position as pic in question:

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o367/Gsmacklover/Statue_3.png

But I have seen some things on the Venus idea, and that sounds like it makes a lot of sense too. So maybe it is her. I don't know. But whoever it is, I'm excited to find out.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 03:51 PM
Honestly, I never made much of conclusion on this, since it's obvious it's a woman, but so difficult to tell anything else. I think many people are making a little bit too big of a deal about the glow aspect, b/c the way that they zoom and do the light, really everything is glowing. And the last frame thing, I can't see a person at all, and again, I think it's people trying to see things that aren't there. As far as it being Juno, I had never made a decision, but I'm really kinda thinkin it might be for a couple reasons. She has her hair in front and it's kinda positioned like the way Juno's looks, and also the veil (for lack of a better word) on her head looks close to the same thing. The only other thing that kinda makes it make sense is just b/c she was the one that more explained everything about the door and the gate and all that. So maybe when AC3 opens up, she will appear there to Desmond to further guide him.

Here's some pics of her just to re-freshen your memory and better see what I mean.

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o367/Gsmacklover/20101120060910Juno1.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o367/Gsmacklover/ACB-Juno.jpg

And this one is her on the left in somewhat the same position as pic in question:

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o367/Gsmacklover/Statue_3.png

But I have seen some things on the Venus idea, and that sounds like it makes a lot of sense too. So maybe it is her. I don't know. But whoever it is, I'm excited to find out.

I disagree. The woman looks like she has blond hair and maybe even a dark skin. Juno has dark brown hair. Juno also has this weird helmet that the woman doesn't seem to have at all.

LordWolv
02-05-2012, 04:03 PM
It's a little hard to make out and it might not actually mean anything, but it's certainly very interesting.
Hard to make out? It's clearly a redhead with a grey/browny jacket and a black belt, looking away from us.

dxsxhxcx
02-05-2012, 04:04 PM
I disagree. The woman looks like she has blond hair and maybe even a dark skin. Juno has dark brown hair. Juno also has this weird helmet that the woman doesn't seem to have at all.


I don't think she's blond, if you look closely, you'll see that she is wearing some kind of orange veil, her hair seems to be what's below that and is black, we can see her face that is a little darker but judging by her arm she's probably white, the belt she's wearing also look a lot with the belt Juno wears... I wouldn't be surprised if that orange colour she has on her clothes are nothing more than light reflecting on her clothes...

GLHS
02-05-2012, 04:09 PM
I don't think she's blond, if you look closely, you'll see that she is wearing some kind of orange veil, her hair seems to be what's below that and is black, we can see her face that is a little darker but judging by her arm she's probably white, the belt she's wearing also look a lot with the belt Juno wears... I wouldn't be surprised if that orange colour she has on her clothes are nothing more than light reflecting on her clothes...

Like I said................but I don't want to make an assumption about this one. It's too hard to make out any good detail, and there's not really an evidence that it's one particular person/being over another. So I'm just gonna let myself be surprised whenever it is that we find out lol.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 04:17 PM
I don't think she's blond, if you look closely, you'll see that she is wearing some kind of orange veil, her hair seems to be what's below that and is black, we can see her face that is a little darker but judging by her arm she's probably white, the belt she's wearing also look a lot with the belt Juno wears... I wouldn't be surprised if that orange colour she has on her clothes are nothing more than light reflecting on her clothes...

It might be a veil, but even if it is it looks different from Juno's as hers was more white. Also, I think she either has long sleeves or is wearing those weird gloves that go up all the way to your elbows. It's too white to be skin imo. Besides, her head and chest (I miss :winky: :() clearly look quite dark.

kalo.yanis
02-05-2012, 04:53 PM
How can you not see how this is probably Juno? Both have the orange veil, long dark hair and the big belt around the waist. I would have thought that if it were Venus, they'd make her more distinct from Juno.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 05:13 PM
How can you not see how this is probably Juno? Both have the orange veil, long dark hair and the big belt around the waist. I would have thought that if it were Venus, they'd make her more distinct from Juno.

Juno has a white veil, not yellow. Not to mention I don't remember her face looking black from a distance. Also, as I said before, this woman isn't wearing a helmet like Juno was. And make her more distinct? Are you kidding me? People kept confusing Juno and Minerva because they look so similar. If anything you should expect Venus to look very similar to those 2, not very different.

Don't be so ridiculous. We have far too little to go on to actually come to any conclusions. The figure is way too vague to say that "it's probably Juno" or anyone else for that matter.

Moultonborough
02-05-2012, 05:21 PM
Well, I tried to find a connection between Venus and the Triad and did not find any. I know they could make one if they wanted to but Ubisoft seems to be keeping it somewhat together. The woman could have been Juno but to me at least it seems to look like Minerva http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/File:Minerva.JPG. In any case since the three(Minerva,Juno,Jupiter) had a direct hand in the creation of the Grand Temple we will see all three at some point within.

EDIT: Though not necessarily all at once.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 05:31 PM
Well, I tried to find a connection between Venus and the Triad and did not find any. I know they could make one if they wanted to but Ubisoft seems to be keeping it somewhat together. The woman could have been Juno but to me at least it seems to look like Minerva http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/File:Minerva.JPG. In any case since the three(Minerva,Juno,Jupiter) had a direct hand in the creation of the Grand Temple we will see all three at some point within.

EDIT: Though not necessarily all at once.

There doesn't have to be a connection between Venus and the Triad. Just look up the myth of the Apple of Discord and you'll find that it directly involves Jupiter, Juno, Minerva and Venus and on top of that a golden apple.

Anyways. I finally found a video in which for a split second it's visible that her skin does indeed appear to be white, so it does look to be Juno.

mustash
02-05-2012, 05:35 PM
There doesn't have to be a connection between Venus and the Triad. Just look up the myth of the Apple of Discord and you'll find that it directly involves Jupiter, Juno, Minerva and Venus and on top of that a golden apple.

Anyways. I finally found a video in which for a split second it's visible that her skin does indeed appear to be white, so it does look to be Juno.

I was about to say friend, that a split second after the door opens, it's clear not only is she wearing white, but it is Juno, complete with heavy makeup eyes, belt and veil. The only thing that might not give it away that it's Juno is that she isn't commanding Desmond to kill anyone...yet ;)

LightRey
02-05-2012, 05:40 PM
I was about to say friend, that a split second after the door opens, it's clear not only is she wearing white, but it is Juno, complete with heavy makeup eyes, belt and veil. The only thing that might not give it away that it's Juno is that she isn't commanding Desmond to kill anyone...yet ;)

Can you get some screens of that? The video I saw wasn't the best quality. It was just enough to make out the color of her skin.

kalo.yanis
02-05-2012, 05:46 PM
There is a connection between the triad and Venus, Have a look at Elizabeth's story in Project Legacy.

DinoSteve1
02-05-2012, 05:50 PM
It's Juno. See here. See this thread I made a while back for more discussion http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/529583-Assassins-Creed-Revelations-Ending-Secret-Spoilers (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/529583-Assassins-Creed-Revelations-Ending-Secret-Spoilers)http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120115124508/assassinscreed/images/2/2b/ACR_ending_-_Juno.jpg
Looks like Ellen Page to me

mustash
02-05-2012, 05:52 PM
Can you get some screens of that? The video I saw wasn't the best quality. It was just enough to make out the color of her skin.

I'll have a nosy around the interwebs, I don't really fancy playing through Revelations again anytime soon :)

GLHS
02-05-2012, 06:00 PM
I wanna see this also. Any better screens or vids of that would be interesting to see. They make it so hard to get a good, clear view of her, but I guess that's done on puropse for the mystery factor.

kalo.yanis
02-05-2012, 06:03 PM
Right, I tinkered a bit in PS and made a little collage.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/NightBlade151/Juno.jpg

Still think it's not Juno?

mustash
02-05-2012, 06:04 PM
Bravo man (or woman), much appreciated. You can appreciate this much more if you see the ending again for yourself, on your TV, it's much more clear then from a capture card or what have you.

GLHS
02-05-2012, 06:05 PM
Oh wow. That's awesome that it's so close and clear there. Badass dude. Looks a lot like Juno from those screens.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 06:06 PM
Bravo man (or woman), much appreciated.

Yep, as I figured the dark "face" was just her hair and the veil looked yellow because of the yellow-ish glow coming off her.


Still think it's not Juno?
You're about 7 posts late for that.

kalo.yanis
02-05-2012, 06:11 PM
Er... I'm not following this as closely as I thought, then :D

mustash
02-05-2012, 06:11 PM
Yep, as I figured the dark "face" was just her hair and the veil looked yellow because of the yellow-ish glow coming off her.


You're about 7 posts late for that.

Now comes theorising time. Obviously she is there to greet Desmond and co and bring them into the vault. Or maybe Desmond is once again, the only one who can see her and will look a bit like a loon, ranting and raving at thin air over the [SPOILER] death of lucy [SPOILER END]. This in a way, brings up the leaked DLC audio because, one could reasonably assume that he goes back into the animus to learn about [MOARRRR SPOILERS] lucy's betrayal, 16's life, etc [SPOILER END]. I have this haunting suspicion that the Templars will turn up to get Desmond and kill the rest before he can access the main vault. Maybe not.

BK-110
02-05-2012, 06:14 PM
Juno has a white veil, not yellow. Not to mention I don't remember her face looking black from a distance. Also, as I said before, this woman isn't wearing a helmet like Juno was. And make her more distinct? Are you kidding me? People kept confusing Juno and Minerva because they look so similar. If anything you should expect Venus to look very similar to those 2, not very different.

Don't be so ridiculous. We have far too little to go on to actually come to any conclusions. The figure is way too vague to say that "it's probably Juno" or anyone else for that matter.

All of the woman's body glows in an orange light, just like the other TWCB.

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/5/54/Miles-Juno.png

See? All her clothing is actually while but the orange-yellowish glow makes it look coloured. So they have the following in common: A white veil, a white long dress, the belt and long black hair. The part of the image her head is in is a bit darker, due to what seems to be a dark line stretching over that part. Even then, the Face still looks white to me. Not only that, but it's too dark and blurry to see whether she has that helmet.

In other words, you cannot tell us that we're not somewhat justified in our assumption that this is Juno.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 06:18 PM
All of the woman's body glows in an orange light, just like the other TWCB.

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/5/54/Miles-Juno.png

See? All her clothing is actually while but the orange-yellowish glow makes it look coloured. So they have the following in common: A white veil, a white long dress, the belt and long black hair. The part of the image her head is in is a bit darker, due to what seems to be a dark line stretching over that part. Even then, the Face still looks white to me. Not only that, but it's too dark and blurry to see whether she has that helmet.

In other words, you cannot tell us that we're not somewhat justified in our assumption that this is Juno.

-___-
10 posts late.

Dejan507
02-05-2012, 06:19 PM
It's rather strange she is there. I think it has something to do with the apple glowing near Desmond, right after his hand gets animus-like effect.
Probably only Desmond will be able to see her, I'm almost certain

LightRey
02-05-2012, 06:22 PM
It's rather strange she is there. I think it has something to do with the apple glowing near Desmond, right after his hand gets animus-like effect.
Probably only Desmond will be able to see her, I'm almost certain

Most likely. Such was the case before in ACB, so I would assume you need Eagle Vision to be able to see them.

GLHS
02-05-2012, 06:23 PM
Go look at the screen from when it's further away now lol. It looks so much clearer now that we've seen it up close. I'm pretty much convinced that it's Juno now. Probably there to guide Desmond into the Temple or to give him more insight.

Also, I was reading up on Juno a little bit on the wiki and I found something interesting about her dialogue from the end of AC:B in relation to Eagle Vision. After she makes Desmond stab Lucy, her exact words are "It is done. The way lies all before you. Only she remains to be found. Awaken the sixth. Go. ALONE!" And anyway, my journey took me to the Eagle Vision page where it states: Mastering Eagle vision led to an "awakening of the sixth," as Juno once termed it, and granted the user Eagle Sense." Of course by now everybody knows that once you hone your senses and master it, it upgrades into Eagle Sense, hence the change in the name. It just got me to thinkin. Maybe the devs chose to do Revelations with an older, wiser, and more polished Ezio in order to introduce Eagle Sense to us and that we will be using it with Desmond in AC3. He'll will have to master his Eagle Vision, or maybe he already has, who knows, and will have to use it to open the gate, or at least aid him in doing so. Idk, I just thought that was kinda interesting. Juper does say something along the lines of "Listen to my words. Pass them from your head into your hands and you will open the gate." That's what got me thinking that Desmond will have to use his abilities from his TWCB genes to open it in the first place, and then I read that. I think I might be on to something.

mustash
02-05-2012, 06:25 PM
It's rather strange she is there. I think it has something to do with the apple glowing near Desmond, right after his hand gets animus-like effect.
Probably only Desmond will be able to see her, I'm almost certain

Not so strange actually, just a little unexpected. I mean, this WAS Eden a long time ago, it's the entrance to the main vault and in all likelihood, is just there to guide the team inside. I think the apple glowing has more to do with Desmonds First-Civ DNA becoming more active, so that he could as it were, pass Jupiters words into his hands. Basically, fancy wifi, so he can interface with the apple, or the vault door. But actually, Desmond's father has some first-civ DNA in him, perhaps just enough to see her. Perhaps not. Hurry up AC3!

GLHS
02-05-2012, 06:27 PM
Not so strange actually, just a little unexpected. I mean, this WAS Eden a long time ago, it's the entrance to the main vault and in all likelihood, is just there to guide the team inside. I think the apple glowing has more to do with Desmonds First-Civ DNA becoming more active, so that he could as it were, pass Jupiters words into his hands. Basically, fancy wifi, so he can interface with the apple, or the vault door. But actually, Desmond's father has some first-civ DNA in him, perhaps just enough to see her. Perhaps not. Hurry up AC3!

You kinda hit on a little bit of what I said just a moment before you lol. But I agree. I'm super stoked for this DLC and cannot wait for AC3. This game is gonna be amazing! :D

LightRey
02-05-2012, 06:28 PM
Not so strange actually, just a little unexpected. I mean, this WAS Eden a long time ago, it's the entrance to the main vault and in all likelihood, is just there to guide the team inside. I think the apple glowing has more to do with Desmonds First-Civ DNA becoming more active, so that he could as it were, pass Jupiters words into his hands. Basically, fancy wifi, so he can interface with the apple, or the vault door. But actually, Desmond's father has some first-civ DNA in him, perhaps just enough to see her. Perhaps not. Hurry up AC3!

Hold up. Who says that was Eden? That right there is just the location of the Grand Temple. We don't know if the Grand Temple was in Eden. We don't even really know just what exactly Eden was. Besides, assuming Adam and Eve were in Eden, I think it's much more reasonable to assume that Eden was in Africa near Mt. Kilimanjaro.

mustash
02-05-2012, 06:33 PM
Hold up. Who says that was Eden? That right there is just the location of the Grand Temple. We don't know if the Grand Temple was in Eden. We don't even really know just what exactly Eden was. Besides, assuming Adam and Eve were in Eden, I think it's much more reasonable to assume that Eden was in Africa near Mt. Kilimanjaro.

Well, I was making connections. The woman in the AC:R cinematic has a look of Eve from the AC2 cinematic, only she is wearing more clothes here. Speculation granted but it makes sense to focus on her rather then just some random passer by, gives us a character and thematic reference for the time period.
Let's say it's not Eden, just another first-civ city, the point still stands, the grand temple is located there, where Juno, Jupiter and Minerva worked on trying to save the world, both before the end and after it.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 06:34 PM
Well, I was making connections. The woman in the AC:R cinematic has a look of Eve from the AC2 cinematic, only she is wearing more clothes here. Speculation granted but it makes sense to focus on her rather then just some random passer by, gives us a character and thematic reference for the time period.
Let's say it's not Eden, just another first-civ city, the point still stands, the grand temple is located their, where Juno, Jupiter and Minerva worked on trying to save the world, both before the end and after it.

Didn't we just establish that the woman was Juno? She looks nothing like Eve.

Dejan507
02-05-2012, 06:35 PM
Is William anything like his son? I know he said Desmond has an interesting TWCB genom, but is such the case with W.? That could be interesting..

mustash
02-05-2012, 06:36 PM
Didn't we just establish that the woman was Juno? She looks nothing like Eve.

Not her silly! I mean, in reference to whether the location of the grand temple was in Eden. I think it might be because whilst the fans have long since decided it was in Africa (and makes a lot of sense granted), in that cinematic we see Eve or someone who looks like her(the ending of the world cinematic) so I was making possible connections.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 06:37 PM
Not her silly! I mean, in reference to whether the location of the grand temple was in Eden. I think it might be because whilst the fans have long since decided it was in Africa (and makes a lot of sense granted), in that cinematic we see Eve (the ending of the world cinematic) so I was making possible connections.

Not this again.
...The ending of the world cinematic does not have Eve in it. -___-

Oh my! a woman during the period of TWCB! It must be Eve!

mustash
02-05-2012, 06:38 PM
Is William anything like his son? I know he said Desmond has an interesting TWCB genom, but is such the case with W.? That could be interesting..

Presumably, Desmonds father and mother have good First-Civ DNA but not the "One in 10 million" lucky that Desmond is.

mustash
02-05-2012, 06:39 PM
Not this again.
...The ending of the world cinematic does not have Eve in it. -___-

Well...that's like your opinion mannnnn. :) Lest we forget, a few pages back you didn't think this woman was Juno. You might be wrong here.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 06:44 PM
Well...that's like your opinion mannnnn. :)

Then please explain to me what someone who's partly (if not fully) responsible for the at that time ongoing war between the humans and TWCB and whose descendants would have to have survived (as S16 is apparently a descendant of hers) would be doing in a highly advanced (and therefore most likely TWCB owned) city wearing futuristic clothing (also an indication of TWCB, not rebel slave humans) dying with her baby (which doesn't make much sense if she's supposed to have surviving descendants).

Acrimonious_Nin
02-05-2012, 06:51 PM
Well if you look at the original story of adam and eve, adam for the most part adam lives up to 700 to 800 years if im not mistakes mabye 900 years old, in brother hood while desmond is running around the church, juno says to him " ..... To store objects. Words. Wisdom. But not life. Almost did we have the means (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/The_Shroud). But time... time erodes us. We can distract him. We can see past him. Feint left when he strikes right. But his reach is so very long. His stamina unending. We cannot evade his grasp. Not forever."(assassins creed wiki) she could be talking about death. maybe adam , eve and the old civi people knew how to prolong their lives...thats why the shroud of turin can heal people its probably one of many attempts of storing life on this planet for a long time.so maybe that is eve, young and sexy ;) yeah lol

mustash
02-05-2012, 06:51 PM
Then please explain to me what someone who's partly (if not fully) responsible for the at that time ongoing war between the humans and TWCB and whose descendants would have to have survived (as S16 is apparently a descendant of hers) would be doing in a highly advanced (and therefore most likely TWCB owned) city wearing futuristic clothing (also an indication of TWCB, not rebel slave humans) dying with her baby (which doesn't make much sense if she's supposed to have surviving descendants).

Unless that's not her only child. Checkmate. Haha, I kid. It's speculative to be sure and there is more in favor of your position then mine. However, we do not have by any means, the full picture yet, not me nor you. If we are to assume that it is Eve, in the time since stealing the Apple and starting the war, perhaps she and Adam have children and mankind reclaim a city for themselves. With the knowledge of the Apple, they realise they are naked, etc.

In the cinematic in AC:R Jupiter talks over the destruction saying that 10,000 of humankind survived and far fewer of TWCB. Minerva said that "We were strong, but you were many". There were a LOT of people in that city, I think they were humans. They didn't look especially tall, they weren't wearing clothes like Jupiter, Minerva or what have you although they were "modern".

Besides, if you actually compare the facial features of this woman with Eve, there are remarkable similiarites.

mustash
02-05-2012, 06:55 PM
Also, it just crossed my mind that if there was anywhere for humankind to be during that time, was near Jupiter, Juno and Minerva who have shown themselves to be sympathetic to the human cause.

BK-110
02-05-2012, 06:59 PM
-___-
10 posts late.

Sorry, the thread was still at 3 pages when I pressed the reply ****on, took me pretty long before I actually wrote the post...

EDIT: Ah come on! I cannot write buton (with a double t) without it being censored because it contains but (with a double t)? Stop with these ridiculous attempts at regulating harmless language...

LightRey
02-05-2012, 07:02 PM
As far as I know the story of Adam and Eve does not cover Eve dying in an explosion with her baby.\

I'm not sure what you mean with "remarkable similarities", since the only distinctive similarities are the color and length of their hair and the fact that they're both women. It's not like they both have the same tattoo on their respective foreheads.


Also, it just crossed my mind that if there was anywhere for humankind to be during that time, was near Jupiter, Juno and Minerva who have shown themselves to be sympathetic to the human cause.

Eh, no. They were (part of) "those who learned to turn away from war". They were not sympathetic of the human cause, which was to wage war against TWCB. They simply were tired of war.

mustash
02-05-2012, 07:15 PM
As far as I know the story of Adam and Eve does not cover Eve dying in an explosion with her baby.\

I'm not sure what you mean with "remarkable similarities", since the only distinctive similarities are the color and length of their hair and the fact that they're both women. It's not like they both have the same tattoo on their respective foreheads.



Eh, no. They were (part of) "those who learned to turn away from war". They were not sympathetic of the human cause, which was to wage war against TWCB. They simply were tired of war.

That's because the bible isn't that awesome, a few explosions would liven it up once in a while ;). The remarkable similarities are her cheekbones, lip shape, eye shape (though that looks a little different), her hair colour and length and as you correctly discerned, they're women, haha. Speculation like anything we talk about here but I think it'd be interesting either way.

And if they weren't sympathetic to the human cause, why bother trying to save the world in the future? Why ensure the tragedy that ended their civilisation should be stopped for humankind? Clearly they care enough about the future of mankind as they went to great lengths to deliver messages to people who wouldn't exist for thousands of years. I realise that at the time, humankind wanted to war against TWCB but there has been hints that the Assassins came from TWCB as did the Templars. What do the Assassins want? Freedom above all. The Templars want control. Both of these ideologies appear to have existed back in TWCB time and so, we could say that there may have been a divide between TWCB who wanted war and those who turned away.

dxsxhxcx
02-05-2012, 07:25 PM
And if they weren't sympathetic to the human cause, why bother trying to save the world in the future?

maybe they have second intentions that they (Desmond and the assassins) don't realize yet like remake their race using the high concentration of TWCB genes Desmond has in his blood... :P

LightRey
02-05-2012, 07:31 PM
That's because the bible isn't that awesome, a few explosions would liven it up once in a while ;). The remarkable similarities are her cheekbones, lip shape, eye shape (though that looks a little different), her hair colour and length and as you correctly discerned, they're women, haha. Speculation like anything we talk about here but I think it'd be interesting either way.

And if they weren't sympathetic to the human cause, why bother trying to save the world in the future? Why ensure the tragedy that ended their civilisation should be stopped for humankind? Clearly they care enough about the future of mankind as they went to great lengths to deliver messages to people who wouldn't exist for thousands of years. I realise that at the time, humankind wanted to war against TWCB but there has been hints that the Assassins came from TWCB as did the Templars. What do the Assassins want? Freedom above all. The Templars want control. Both of these ideologies appear to have existed back in TWCB time and so, we could say that there may have been a divide between TWCB who wanted war and those who turned away.

How could you even properly compare their faces? Besides, from what I can see, Eve's cheeckbones look to be less apparent, her eyes look "happier", her nostrils are wider, and though the hair color and length appear to be similar, their hair styles aren't.

They want to save the world because they want to save their legacy. The human cause during the war was defeating TWCB. TWCB did not work together with humans to fight other TWCB. They turned away and focused on trying to save the world from the disaster you see happening.

But why would Eve die with her baby (assuming its hers). She looks not much older than 30 at most and she has to have had surviving descendants.

Gil_217
02-05-2012, 07:43 PM
It's clearly Lucy Stillman!! http://i40.tinypic.com/2hhoh36.jpg

LightRey
02-05-2012, 07:53 PM
It's clearly Lucy Stillman!! http://i40.tinypic.com/2hhoh36.jpg

xDDDDDDDDDDDD
I'd also like to point out that, regardless of all this, we clearly have no real evidence that makes it likely enough for her to be Eve (we don't even know if Eve was still alive at that point, hell, we don't even know that much about the war in general) to assume so, so why assume that she is and then assume that the location of the Grand Temple is near that city and then "conclude" that it is Eden? Isn't that a little far-fetched?

mustash
02-05-2012, 08:15 PM
xDDDDDDDDDDDD
I'd also like to point out that, regardless of all this, we clearly have no real evidence that makes it likely enough for her to be Eve (we don't even know if Eve was still alive at that point, hell, we don't even know that much about the war in general) to assume so, so why assume that she is and then assume that the location of the Grand Temple is near that city and then "conclude" that it is Eden? Isn't that a little far-fetched?

Absolutely but it's an idea I keep entertaining, if for no other reason then for how little we know about their time, about Adam and Eve, etc. But the grand temple IS near that city. Why? We watched it happen if you remember. A minerva statue is destroyed, it falls down, the world gets cooked, the camera pans to the fallen down statue, time speeds up and we see the landscape shift and change and eventually, we end up in modern time. The temple is below there because, if you recall when we first see Jupiter and after he introduces himself, he says "Each vaults knowledge was transmitted to a single place". Cue more camera panning as it zooms into the world, then a shot of that same statue is seen, the camera descends and we find Minvera, Juno and Jupiter....walking about I guess. Then they open the vault door.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 08:20 PM
Absolutely but it's an idea I keep entertaining, if for no other reason then for how little we know about their time, about Adam and Eve, etc. But the grand temple IS near that city. Why? We watched it happen if you remember. A minerva statue is destroyed, it falls down, the world gets cooked, the camera pans to the fallen down statue, time speeds up and we see the landscape shift and change and eventually, we end up in modern time. The temple is below there because, if you recall when we first see Jupiter and after he introduces himself, he says "Each vaults knowledge was transmitted to a single place". Cue more camera panning as it zooms into the world, then a shot of that same statue is seen, the camera descends and we find Minvera, Juno and Jupiter....walking about I guess. Then they open the vault door.

Ah, yes that is true. I forgot about that. Either way, I think it's much safer to assume that Eden was somewhere near Mt. Kilimanjaro, as the mountain that can be seen at the end of "The Truth" looks suspiciously much like it.

mustash
02-05-2012, 08:34 PM
Ah, yes that is true. I forgot about that. Either way, I think it's much safer to assume that Eden was somewhere near Mt. Kilimanjaro, as the mountain that can be seen at the end of "The Truth" looks suspiciously much like it.

I agree and as another footnote as to why it's most likely that the city we witnessed get destroyed in AC:R isn't Eden is the architecture is different. Not totally different but there was a lot more white for one in the AC2 cinematic. Or maybe because it was fairly dark in the cinematic they didn't appear white. Either way, I agree, I didn't see that giant *** mountain in AC:R's ending :)

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110320162057/assassinscreed/images/e/e3/Eden_1_v.png

razaqazee
02-05-2012, 08:38 PM
Now i didn't know that my thread would cause such controversy on the possibility of AC2 Eve's being the same person who witnessed the destruction of Earth in ACR, I can say that i ponder over why the camera, in the ending of ACR seems to zoom from desmond to the vault and how it activated the moment William opened his Van's door. We are desmond so that means that what desmond see, we see. However the end shows us that desmond is still attached to the Animus, but his vision is zooming into the vault's entrance at the speed of sound, distorting surrounding areas, going to the cave in complete darkness, and activating the strange symbols.this shouldn't happen unless he was in the animus, which brings me to the point that what if desmond's journey is actually being viewed by someone else who has the animus gui turned off to make it look like we are only watching him without animus features. Again the truth video of AC2 showed that subject 16's camera zoomed out when Adam and Eve reached the top of the building, an important part where they got the apple of eden before eve shouting to watch out from whatever it was.

Gil_217
02-05-2012, 08:44 PM
Now i didn't know that my thread would cause such controversy on the possibility of AC2 Eve's being the same person who witnessed the destruction of Earth in ACR, I can say that i ponder over why the camera, in the ending of ACR seems to zoom from desmond to the vault and how it activated the moment William opened his Van's door. We are desmond so that means that what desmond see, we see. However the end shows us that desmond is still attached to the Animus, but his vision is zooming into the vault's entrance at the speed of sound, distorting surrounding areas, going to the cave in complete darkness, and activating the strange symbols.this shouldn't happen unless he was in the animus, which brings me to the point that what if desmond's journey is actually being viewed by someone else who has the animus gui turned off to make it look like we are only watching him without animus features. Again the truth video of AC2 showed that subject 16's camera zoomed out when Adam and Eve reached the top of the building, an important part where they got the apple of eden before eve shouting to watch out from whatever it was.

No, just no.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 08:47 PM
Now i didn't know that my thread would cause such controversy on the possibility of AC2 Eve's being the same person who witnessed the destruction of Earth in ACR, I can say that i ponder over why the camera, in the ending of ACR seems to zoom from desmond to the vault and how it activated the moment William opened his Van's door. We are desmond so that means that what desmond see, we see. However the end shows us that desmond is still attached to the Animus, but his vision is zooming into the vault's entrance at the speed of sound, distorting surrounding areas, going to the cave in complete darkness, and activating the strange symbols.this shouldn't happen unless he was in the animus, which brings me to the point that what if desmond's journey is actually being viewed by someone else who has the animus gui turned off to make it look like we are only watching him without animus features. Again the truth video of AC2 showed that subject 16's camera zoomed out when Adam and Eve reached the top of the building, an important part where they got the apple of eden before eve shouting to watch out from whatever it was.

That's not how it works. It's a cutscene. Camera angles are used for dramatic effect.

kalo.yanis
02-05-2012, 09:41 PM
I've so far assumed that the cinematic at the end of ACR happens at the location of the Grand Temple when the world ended, whereas that at Eden was in Africa - after those events (when they were "rebuilding").

Who knows, it might be that the baby was Adam/Eve. Didn't S16 say something about finding a son and Eve's DNA or something like that? Sooo, it's the baby that might be important.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 09:45 PM
I've so far assumed that the cinematic at the end of ACR happens at the location of the Grand Temple when the world ended, whereas that at Eden was in Africa - after those events (when they were "rebuilding").

Who knows, it might be that the baby was Adam/Eve. Didn't S16 say something about finding a son and Eve's DNA or something like that? Sooo, it's the baby that might be important.

Can't be the baby. Adam and Eve started the war and the war was still waging when "the world became undone".

kalo.yanis
02-05-2012, 09:47 PM
Can't be the baby. Adam and Eve started the war.
Did they?

LightRey
02-05-2012, 09:49 PM
Did they?

Yes. They used the apple to start an uprising. It's in the Encyclopedia.

kalo.yanis
02-05-2012, 09:52 PM
Ok then. I don't have it. :p

dxsxhxcx
02-05-2012, 11:42 PM
if you compare the area of the two cinematics (the truth from AC2 and the ending of ACR), the area around where Eden was supposed to be seems to be pretty similar, do you think that is possible that the changes in the terrain around that area (that we saw happening in the cinematic at the end of ACR) somehow managed to hide a good part of that mountain that we see in the truth video?!

The Truth (AC2)
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5732/eden1v.png


ACR ending cinematic
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/691/semttuloen.jpg

both images together (we need to consider that the angle of the two images are a little different, that's why they may fit in this image)
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5189/edenny.jpg

mustash
02-05-2012, 11:54 PM
if you compare the area of the two cinematics (the truth from AC2 and the ending of ACR), the area around where Eden was supposed to be are pretty similar, do you think that is possible that the changes in the terrain around that area (that we saw happening in the cinematic at the end of ACR) somehow managed to hide a good part of that mountain that we see in the truth video?!

I'd say that it was a possibility but a counter point would be that, mankind is said to originate in Africa, where would a more logical place for Eden to be but there? So this city we see in AC:R would appear to be where New York is now. But who is to say, again it's just speculation, perhaps that mountain is in fact hidden and wasn't the one in Africa where some fans say Eden was.

dxsxhxcx
02-06-2012, 12:17 AM
I'd say that it was a possibility but a counter point would be that, mankind is said to originate in Africa, where would a more logical place for Eden to be but there? So this city we see in AC:R would appear to be where New York is now. But who is to say, again it's just speculation, perhaps that mountain is in fact hidden and wasn't the one in Africa where some fans say Eden was.

another theory I have, if confirmed that the mount that appears in the truth video is the Mt. Kilimanjaro, is that they had one city for each place where they had the (6) temples where they were doing the research to try to save the world during their time...

kalo.yanis
02-06-2012, 12:20 AM
Mountains don't disappear that fast and they most certainly did have more than 1 city... I presume, since they had more than 1 temple.

mustash
02-06-2012, 12:28 AM
Mountains don't disappear that fast and they most certainly did have more than 1 city... I presume, since they had more than 1 temple.

Not usually but you forget, the entire world got hit by a solar wave that flipped the poles, caused worldwide earthquakes and fires that reshaped the land. Coroborrating evidence is the AC:R cinematic, where we watch that Minerva statue degrade whilst an entire hill moves into shot. So i'd say that it was indeed possible for a mountain of that size to disappear.

LightRey
02-06-2012, 12:36 AM
Not usually but you forget, the entire world got hit by a solar wave that flipped the poles, caused worldwide earthquakes and fires that reshaped the land. Coroborrating evidence is the AC:R cinematic, where we watch that Minerva statue degrade whilst an entire hill moves into shot. So i'd say that it was indeed possible for a mountain of that size to disappear.

Solar flares don't flatten mountains. They can cause seismic activity (earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc.), but they most certainly cannot make mountains disappear. It's just plasma, it can't actually move the earth's crust.

mustash
02-06-2012, 12:39 AM
Solar flares don't flatten mountains. They can cause seismic activity (earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc.), but they most certainly cannot make mountains disappear. It's just plasma, it can't actually move the earth's crust.

I know they don't flatten mountains, the seismic activity very well could have though, triggered by the pole reversal. We saw for ourselves the earth's crust ripping open in lots of places in that video. I admit, it's pseudo sciency but then, so is an animus :D

LightRey
02-06-2012, 12:48 AM
I know they don't flatten mountains, the seismic activity very well could have though triggered by the pole reversal. We saw for ourselves the earth's crust ripping open in lots of places in that video. I admit, it's pseudo sciency but then, so is an animus :D

No, that's not how it works. The ionized particles from a solar flare (i.e. plasma) could theoretically (this is very speculative, but wth) flip the earth's pole, affecting the flow of iron particles in the earth's core and in turn causing the earth's tectonic plates to move in different directions from before. It just makes it all different and the sudden change causes earthquakes and volcanic eruptions all over. The earth ripping open is just the result of that. It most certainly doesn't create or destroy mountains. That is impossible. Only a lava plume (and no, a solar flare would not create that) or an asteroid many times larger than any that ever hit the earth could actually do that.

Furthermore, the polar shift would temporarily weaken the Earth's magnetic field significantly, which means no protection from the solar flare aside from what our atmosphere provides us. That is what causes the Aurora Borealis (northern lights) to appear everywhere instead of only at the poles, where the Earth's magnetic field is weakest, which can also be seen in the video.

mustash
02-06-2012, 01:02 AM
How can you be sure that a mountain could not be destroyed, even to go so far as to say it's impossible. In geological time, mountains are made and destroyed much more rapidly then it appears to us, so when the entire planet is hit a by a solar flare that makes Earth geologically unstable, what is there to say that a mountain COULDN'T be destroyed? I understand how mountains are formed and generally mountains erode over millions of years, that's usually disappear. But to say with absolute certainty that the earths crust, all lovely and broken couldn't destroy a geological feature when the geology itself is a mess is erm....odd.

LightRey
02-06-2012, 01:09 AM
How can you be sure that a mountain could not be destroyed, even to go so far as to say it's impossible. In geological time, mountains are made and destroyed much more rapidly then it appears to us, so when the entire planet is hit a by a solar flare that makes Earth geologically unstable, what is there to say that a mountain COULDN'T be destroyed? I understand how mountains are formed and generally mountains erode over millions of years, that's usually disappear. But to say with absolute certainty that the earths crust, all lovely and broken couldn't destroy a geological feature when the geology itself is a mess is erm....odd.

Mountains are formed and eroded over the course of hundreds of millions of years, not thousands.

mustash
02-06-2012, 01:19 AM
Mountains are formed and eroded over the course of hundreds of millions of years, not thousands.

That's err...what I said. I was asking you why you think a geological feature, the one in question a mountain, to be impossible to be destroyed from geological instability where the earth's crust tears and breaks apart?

LightRey
02-06-2012, 01:19 AM
That's err...what I said. I was asking you why you think a geological feature, the one in question a mountain, to be impossible to be destroyed from geological instability where the earth's crust tears and breaks apart?

Are you saying Adam and Eve existed hundreds of millions of years ago then? Because that is preposterous.

mustash
02-06-2012, 01:24 AM
Are you saying Adam and Eve existed hundreds of millions of years ago then? Because that is preposterous.

No....no that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that WHEN the geological instability took place, in the days of TWCB, what physical process or law that you know of would make it IMPOSSIBLE by your own arguement that mountains could not be destroyed in the midst of worldwide geological instability. I've had to reiterate what I said 2 times now, come on.

LightRey
02-06-2012, 01:31 AM
No....no that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that WHEN the geological instability took place, in the days of TWCB, what physical process or law that you know of would make it IMPOSSIBLE by your own arguement that mountains could not be destroyed in the midst of worldwide geological instability. I've had to reiterate what I said 2 times now, come on.

The geological instability took place during the war Adam and Eve triggered, so that pretty much destroys any reason to have this conversation, but I will entertain you further. When I say "destroyed", I do not mean "eroded", I mean that a specific event caused the mountain to disappear. Erosion is not an event, it is something that is always happening, so that doesn't apply here. The only "event" that could do such a thing other than what I've mentioned would be the movement of a tectonic plate. However, such an "event" would still take hundreds of millions of years. Polar shift does not cause hundreds of millions of years of instability and instability on its own cannot move or destroy mountains in a relatively short time either.

mustash
02-06-2012, 01:45 AM
The geological instability took place during the war Adam and Eve triggered, so that pretty much destroys any reason to have this conversation, but I will entertain you further. When I say "destroyed", I do not mean "eroded", I mean that a specific event caused the mountain to disappear. Erosion is not an event, it is something that is always happening, so that doesn't apply here. The only "event" that could do such a thing other than what I've mentioned would be the movement of a tectonic plate. However, such an "event" would still take hundreds of millions of years. Polar shift does not cause hundreds of millions of years of instability and instability on its own cannot move or destroy mountains in a relatively short time either.

That's all I was asking, whether instability of the kind that took place in TWCB was enough to significantly change the landscape and destroy a mountain. Thank you for the clarification however, I guess we can safely say then that, no dxsxhxcx (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/432307-dxsxhxcx), it isn't possible that the terrain shifted enough to hide that mountain or that the mountain itself disappeared.

LightRey
02-06-2012, 01:48 AM
That's all I was asking, whether instability of the kind that took place in TWCB was enough to significantly change the landscape and destroy a mountain. Thank you for the clarification however, I guess we can safely say then that, no dxsxhxcx (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/432307-dxsxhxcx), it isn't possible that the terrain shifted enough to hide that mountain or that the mountain itself disappeared.

Indeed and even if it were, the terrain would not be so recognizable that one could use both those pictures to see that they are the same place. Furthermore, the Temples were built before the end of the world. If the mountain had disappeared, then the Grand Temple would not be there either.

Basically what it comes down to is:
Eden: near Mt. Kilimanjaro in Africa.
Grand Temple: In New York

mustash
02-06-2012, 01:56 AM
Indeed and even if it were, the terrain would not be so recognizable that one could use both those pictures to see that they are the same place. Furthermore, the Temples were built before the end of the world. If the mountain had disappeared, then the Grand Temple would not be there either.

Basically what it comes down to is:
Eden: near Mt. Kilimanjaro in Africa.
Grand Temple: In New York

Aye....on an unrelated note, this topic, haha. I just looked at what we are SUPPOSED to be discussing...that was a while ago XD
Errr, errr, Juno is actually Eve, who destroyed a mountain in Africa and transported the place to New York. Filled with regret, she time travels into the future to warn Desmond not to go into the grand temple lest he destroy another mountain.
There, fullfilled my on topic quotient.

LightRey
02-06-2012, 01:58 AM
Aye....on an unrelated note, this topic, haha. I just looked at what we are SUPPOSED to be discussing...that was a while ago XD
Errr, errr, Juno is actually Eve, who destroyed a mountain in Africa and transported the place to New York. Filled with regret, she time travels into the future to warn Desmond not to go into the grand temple lest he destroy another mountain.
There, fullfilled my on topic quotient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7ZzYQbIZ_M
Couldn't help myself.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-06-2012, 01:59 AM
are , adam and eve, creations of TWCB or are they the offsprings of humans and TWCB??

LightRey
02-06-2012, 02:00 AM
are , adam and eve, creations of TWCB or are they the offsprings of humans and TWCB??

Both. Humans were created by TWCB.

mustash
02-06-2012, 02:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7ZzYQbIZ_M
Couldn't help myself.

Haha, good lord.

GLHS
02-06-2012, 03:05 PM
Ok, I don't get it then. Are you guys basically saying that in AC3, Desmond is gonna have to go to the Grand Temple in New York and to Eden in Africa? The assumption from TWCB's and Clay's words in the games is that Desmond has to go Eden to find Eve, or her reincarnation, or decedent, whatever you wanna call her. I don't see why they would build the central temple in city other than Eden and why they would go to lengths explaining what happened there and that the city got buried and lost throughout time if it wasn't Eden. It makes no sense for him to go somewhere else. Plus, the other temples were just in different places, such as Giza and Rome, not in a whole bunch of different TWCB cities. That central building in the AC2 screen looks and is shaped exactly like the one building that falls and all the glass gets broken during the explosion in the AC:R cutsceen. I just don't get why they would make it 2 different places. Plus, the time lapse was done to show how the earth changed and how the statue and the city was buried. There are many lost cites that just kinda disappear. Atlantis, Alexandria, etc. That mountain is still there in present day, which is why they show the time lapse. It just looks different. But watch when it zooms out to the van heading down the road. There's a reason why the entrance is like a cave entrance and why the devs chose this particular area for the Temple. Cuz of that huge mysterious hole in the earth there. It makes perfect sense that Eden was buried and lost through time. But I doubt we're going to Africa as well. So nobody would tell him to go to Eden and then later go "Well, as long as you just go to the Grand Temple, you'll be fine."

And I know Adan and Eve started the war, but I don't think it was just to be rebellious. They were doing it to rise up against the control. That's the reason why they were kinda classified and the first Assassins. Since they had such high concentration of the TWCB gene and were immune to the Apple's controlling effects, they saw that TWCB were using it for control, so they took it to keep it away from TWCB so they couldn't use it to control humanity. But it sounds kinda bad saying they started the war, cuz I don't really think they were in it for violence. It only becomes a war once somebody stands up to tyranny, which I think was their main goal.

But anyway, that woman is not Eve. She's clearly just human, and Adam and Eve are, idk, what should I call them? Super-human? lol but anyway, they had a higher concentration, and that woman, whoever she is, is clearly just human. But, it does look like they just kinda used the same face model for her. I'm guessing she, or her baby plays some sort of significance, but then again they do die. So it's possible they just showed her with a baby for more dramatic purposes to show how horrible this catastrophe was.

LightRey
02-06-2012, 03:45 PM
Ok, I don't get it then. Are you guys basically saying that in AC3, Desmond is gonna have to go to the Grand Temple in New York and to Eden in Africa? The assumption from TWCB's and Clay's words in the games is that Desmond has to go Eden to find Eve, or her reincarnation, or decedent, whatever you wanna call her. I don't see why they would build the central temple in city other than Eden and why they would go to lengths explaining what happened there and that the city got buried and lost throughout time if it wasn't Eden. It makes no sense for him to go somewhere else. Plus, the other temples were just in different places, such as Giza and Rome, not in a whole bunch of different TWCB cities. That central building in the AC2 screen looks and is shaped exactly like the one building that falls and all the glass gets broken during the explosion in the AC:R cutsceen. I just don't get why they would make it 2 different places. Plus, the time lapse was done to show how the earth changed and how the statue and the city was buried. There are many lost cites that just kinda disappear. Atlantis, Alexandria, etc. That mountain is still there in present day, which is why they show the time lapse. It just looks different. But watch when it zooms out to the van heading down the road. There's a reason why the entrance is like a cave entrance and why the devs chose this particular area for the Temple. Cuz of that huge mysterious hole in the earth there. It makes perfect sense that Eden was buried and lost through time. But I doubt we're going to Africa as well. So nobody would tell him to go to Eden and then later go "Well, as long as you just go to the Grand Temple, you'll be fine."

And I know Adan and Eve started the war, but I don't think it was just to be rebellious. They were doing it to rise up against the control. That's the reason why they were kinda classified and the first Assassins. Since they had such high concentration of the TWCB gene and were immune to the Apple's controlling effects, they saw that TWCB were using it for control, so they took it to keep it away from TWCB so they couldn't use it to control humanity. But it sounds kinda bad saying they started the war, cuz I don't really think they were in it for violence. It only becomes a war once somebody stands up to tyranny, which I think was their main goal.

But anyway, that woman is not Eve. She's clearly just human, and Adam and Eve are, idk, what should I call them? Super-human? lol but anyway, they had a higher concentration, and that woman, whoever she is, is clearly just human. But, it does look like they just kinda used the same face model for her. I'm guessing she, or her baby plays some sort of significance, but then again they do die. So it's possible they just showed her with a baby for more dramatic purposes to show how horrible this catastrophe was.

No. S16 also says: "the key... her DNA", which suggests that he needs to find a genetic memory of her. He doesn't have to physically go to Eden for that.

Jupiter, Juno and Minerva didn't build the temples for show and they didn't want the rest of TWCB involved (as those guys were busy fighting the war, which they had turned away from). Assuming that Eden was some kind of capital city (even though it was more likely some kind of human slave camp, as it was "paradise" for the humans while they were slaves, not for TWCB), they would obviously not have built it there. Jupiter even goes as far as saying that they deliberately built them underground to hide them and have them possibly survive the end should it come before they could stop it.

And again, there are no mountains to be seen near the Grand Temple. Mountains don't just disappear over the course of a few thousand years and even if they did, the Grand Temple should have disappeared with it if there was one there.

GLHS
02-06-2012, 09:31 PM
Gah, idk. They make everything too confusing lol. I just want answers already! I hate waiting.

YuurHeen
02-06-2012, 10:08 PM
Gah, idk. They make everything too confusing lol. I just want answers already! I hate waiting.

sometimes the wait is the most fun. ones you know you are either, damm thats dissapointing or hmm ok that makes sense now what.

Moultonborough
02-06-2012, 11:23 PM
Mountains don't disappear that fast and they most certainly did have more than 1 city... I presume, since they had more than 1 temple.

Not always. Look up what happened to Krakatoa or the formation of Crater Lake. It is possible. Mount. Kilimanjaro is also a volcano, actually three in one. So a earthquake caused by it could wipe out a city like we see in AC:R. Only time will tell though, I hate waiting also.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-07-2012, 12:15 AM
well at least it has been established that its most likely juno... now why is the symbol at the gates remembling a females overies connecting to the female symbol i mean really does he have to shout 72 again or is he gonna use blood thats probably is on the apple from lucy to rub it on the door ?

Moultonborough
02-07-2012, 01:23 AM
well at least it has been established that its most likely juno... now why is the symbol at the gates remembling a females overies connecting to the female symbol i mean really does he have to shout 72 again or is he gonna use blood thats probably is on the apple from lucy to rub it on the door ?

I think the 72 password was unique to Juno's Temple. But I imagine there will be some sort of password(s) to get further within.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-07-2012, 02:07 AM
I think the 72 password was unique to Juno's Temple. But I imagine there will be some sort of password(s) to get further within.
thats what i was thinking but if the key is her dna... hands down it has to be rebecca because i dont see another girl for miles...

GLHS
02-07-2012, 10:35 AM
Sure....that makes sooo much sense. Omg are you serious? We haven't met the woman yet. I'm guessing we will in AC3. And Rebecca has nothing to do with it. Plus, she's already been in the Animus, and I guarantee you if she was a big help to something relating to the apocalypse, she would've found out. Also, they won't need any blood for the door. Desmond is gonna have to use Eagle Sense at some point, which is what Juno meant by "awaken the sixth" b/c that's when Eagle Vision evolves into Eagle Sense, and becomes a person's sixth sense. He probable already has it b/c of the Bleeding Effect, or is at least close and will have to master it himself.

LightRey
02-07-2012, 01:46 PM
Sure....that makes sooo much sense. Omg are you serious? We haven't met the woman yet. I'm guessing we will in AC3. And Rebecca has nothing to do with it. Plus, she's already been in the Animus, and I guarantee you if she was a big help to something relating to the apocalypse, she would've found out. Also, they won't need any blood for the door. Desmond is gonna have to use Eagle Sense at some point, which is what Juno meant by "awaken the sixth" b/c that's when Eagle Vision evolves into Eagle Sense, and becomes a person's sixth sense. He probable already has it b/c of the Bleeding Effect, or is at least close and will have to master it himself.

Well, that is assuming that Eagle Sense = the Sixth Sense and that Desmond therefore has done what Juno "asked" of him. Could be Eagle Sense is just a little closer to The Sixth Sense and he's still got more stuff to do to awaken The Sixth.

I don't like speculating on Eve and what exactly S16 was trying to tell Desmond about her. He wasn't exactly clear and we know very little about Eve or her role in all this other than that she started the war with one of the apples and that she was a hybrid.

GLHS
02-07-2012, 03:52 PM
Right. Of course, there could always be more details about the sixth sense, but either way, the post I was replying to was still ridiculous and that was my main point.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-07-2012, 03:54 PM
Sure....that makes sooo much sense. Omg are you serious? We haven't met the woman yet. I'm guessing we will in AC3. And Rebecca has nothing to do with it. Plus, she's already been in the Animus, and I guarantee you if she was a big help to something relating to the apocalypse, she would've found out. Also, they won't need any blood for the door. Desmond is gonna have to use Eagle Sense at some point, which is what Juno meant by "awaken the sixth" b/c that's when Eagle Vision evolves into Eagle Sense, and becomes a person's sixth sense. He probable already has it b/c of the Bleeding Effect, or is at least close and will have to master it himself.
so your saying after a long trip to a cave a girl is gonna walk up to them and reveal herself as "mitochondria eve's descendent" to help the assassins? :D but i doubt they will leave that place anytime soon to go woman hunting... finding a girl somewhere on earth in about 2 months sounds extreme but i guess you make more sense :D

GLHS
02-07-2012, 03:59 PM
Not a girl. Juno. And she's not anywhere close to Eve's descendant or in relation to Eve. She is an ancient and a member of TWCB, and they created Eve and all humans. She is most likely there to guide Desmond into the Grand Temple and give him more info/advice.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-07-2012, 04:04 PM
Not a girl. Juno. And she's not anywhere close to Eve's descendant or in relation to Eve. She is an ancient and a member of TWCB, and they created Eve and all humans. She is most likely there to guide Desmond into the Grand Temple and give him more info/advice.
that logical :D but as i remember juno in brotherhood says that desmond will be accompanied through the gate by a girl not herself...or she would have said, "I will accompany you"...its totally rebecca your in denial sorry :D

Gil_217
02-07-2012, 04:29 PM
that logical :D but as i remember juno in brotherhood says that desmond will be accompanied through the gate by a girl not herself...or she would have said, "I will accompany you"...its totally rebecca your in denial sorry :D

I know that will never,ever, happen, but if by some ridiculous miracle that does indeed happen, I will facepalm so hard that I will never play that game again. Awful idea, just plain awful.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-07-2012, 04:56 PM
rebecca is the alpha female i dont know why you people are haters lol she rocks :D ohwell haha ;).. and btw goodluck finding a girl in the middle of no where :) in 60 something days (and im couting the x amount of days desmond was in a coma which i believe is maybe[speculation] 10 days max judging by the conversations)

Gil_217
02-07-2012, 05:01 PM
rebecca is the alpha female i dont know why you people are haters lol she rocks :D ohwell haha ;).. and btw goodluck finding a girl in the middle of no where :) in 60 something days (and im couting the x amount of days desmond was in a coma which i believe is maybe[speculation] 10 days max judging by the conversations)

And the fact that,supposedly (I hope), Desmond needs to find a woman is even more facepalmworthy, but what can I do. I truly hope that when Juno said " ...only she remains to be found.", she didn't literally meant that.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-07-2012, 07:27 PM
And the fact that,supposedly (I hope), Desmond needs to find a woman is even more facepalmworthy, but what can I do. I truly hope that when Juno said " ...only she remains to be found.", she didn't literally meant that.
hmm you got me...unless rebeccas twin sister is in the cave already ;)

razaqazee
02-07-2012, 08:14 PM
Hey, do you guys think we will able to relive the life of a TWCB???? It got me into thinking that since Desmond ancestory goes all the way back to Adam and Eve, they are both pure hybrids and can also be traced back to the TWCB and Human that paired together to make them. Makes sense right??? I think it would be cool to go back 60,000 years in the past to relive the life of a TWCB, see their landscape etc.... I think its highly possible, and Ubisoft may very well make a sequence or two for this in upcoming games. Maybe Desmond may need to go to Eve's DNA literally, and relive her life just like S16 did. Its possible and may come.

What do you speculate on this????

Gil_217
02-07-2012, 08:31 PM
Hey, do you guys think we will able to relive the life of a TWCB???? It got me into thinking that since Desmond ancestry goes all the way back to Adam and Eve, they are both pure hybrids and can also be traced back to the TWCB and Human that paired together to make them. Makes sense right??? I think it would be cool to go back 60,000 years in the past to relive the life of a TWCB, see their landscape etc.... I think its highly possible, and Ubisoft may very well make a sequence or two for this in upcoming games. Maybe Desmond may need to go to Eve's DNA literally, and relive her life just like S16 did. Its possible and may come.

What do you speculate on this????

It wouldn't surprise me if that happens. With this said, it would be a disaster, in every sense of the word.

GLHS
02-07-2012, 09:26 PM
First, it would be cool to go back that far and relive some stuff as either Adam or Eve, but idk if that will happen. As far as reliving TWCB's memories, I very highly doubt that's even possible. They're not even remotely human, and wouldn't have the same DNA. It wouldn't even be possible if they did, b/c nobody has any way of knowing if their DNA even works the same, and the Animus only analyzes human DNA. Their brain doesn't even work the same way since they're so much more advanced so I don't think it would be possible to relive that far back. The very furthest it could go back would either be Adam and Eve or the very first humans ever made. But I still think it would be pretty awesome to see more of Adam and Eve's life and what happened to them after the AC2 vid.

Secondly, stop with the Rebecca thing. It's ret@rded and is absolutely not relevant to the game's story or this thread. You obviously mistook what I said about Juno being there and why, and it's obvious she wasn't talking about herself. Just because she's there when they get there doesn't mean she's going through the gate with him, and we can't even be sure if the gate means the Grand Temple entrance, let alone a literal gateway. There is a good chance that the other members of TWCB will be there also. Unless you have some ligament contributions to make to this thread, I suggest you stop with that idea.

LightRey
02-07-2012, 10:44 PM
First, it would be cool to go back that far and relive some stuff as either Adam or Eve, but idk if that will happen. As far as reliving TWCB's memories, I very highly doubt that's even possible. They're not even remotely human, and wouldn't have the same DNA. It wouldn't even be possible if they did, b/c nobody has any way of knowing if their DNA even works the same, and the Animus only analyzes human DNA. Their brain doesn't even work the same way since they're so much more advanced so I don't think it would be possible to relive that far back. The very furthest it could go back would either be Adam and Eve or the very first humans ever made. But I still think it would be pretty awesome to see more of Adam and Eve's life and what happened to them after the AC2 vid.

Secondly, stop with the Rebecca thing. It's ret@rded and is absolutely not relevant to the game's story or this thread. You obviously mistook what I said about Juno being there and why, and it's obvious she wasn't talking about herself. Just because she's there when they get there doesn't mean she's going through the gate with him, and we can't even be sure if the gate means the Grand Temple entrance, let alone a literal gateway. There is a good chance that the other members of TWCB will be there also. Unless you have some ligament contributions to make to this thread, I suggest you stop with that idea.

Well considering the fact that it works on hybrids and that humans were supposedly created in the image of TWCB, I think it's very well possible for Desmond to relive memories of TWCB ancestors. Also, if Eve's memories can be relived, then in all likelyhood so can those of her parents and one of those is supposedly one of TWCB.

I agree on the whole Juno thing with you (obviously). I'd like to add to what you said that Juno herself said that she did not know who the woman she mentioned would be ("She lies not within our sight."). One would think that she would know if she herself was the woman she was talking about.

GLHS
02-08-2012, 09:46 AM
But it really wouldn't make much sense though. Technically they're dead and are only still existent in hologram form to pass messages on to Desmond. She obviously is there, but it wouldn't make sense for Desmond to procreate with her or anything like that.

LightRey
02-08-2012, 04:37 PM
But it really wouldn't make much sense though. Technically they're dead and are only still existent in hologram form to pass messages on to Desmond. She obviously is there, but it wouldn't make sense for Desmond to procreate with her or anything like that.

Naturally. TWCB are dead and gone. They can't procreate anymore. Any genetic memories of TWCB could only be found in their hybrid descendants.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-09-2012, 12:27 AM
But it really wouldn't make much sense though. Technically they're dead and are only still existent in hologram form to pass messages on to Desmond. She obviously is there, but it wouldn't make sense for Desmond to procreate with her or anything like that.
well in Regards to the info on hEre, it leads me BelievE a unique ConClusion, thAt Desmond will relive aN "eve" memory strAnd :D

razaqazee
02-09-2012, 01:28 AM
well in Regards to the info on hEre, it leads me BelievE a unique ConClusion, thAt Desmond will relive aN "eve" memory strAnd :D

Funny how you said "Rebecca DNA" in the capitals of your words. I still feel she isn't THE ONE that Desmond would need to refer to.

LightRey
02-09-2012, 01:58 AM
Funny how you said "Rebecca DNA" in the capitals of your words. I still feel she isn't THE ONE that Desmond would need to refer to.

I see no good reason to assume, or even suspect so either. The only things pointing at it are the fact that she is also there and the fact that she is a woman.

Besides, what "cross" would be darkening the horizon regarding her?

Acrimonious_Nin
02-09-2012, 02:58 AM
Funny how you said "Rebecca DNA" in the capitals of your words. I still feel she isn't THE ONE that Desmond would need to refer to.
lol you have been playIng Too much asSassns cReed my friEnd I BelievE that your Constructing things that are not there, but the faCt is that we do not have enough info on that and should stop Assuming. So....what is crazy is the fact that juno is appearing there and the gate has a female symbol with "OVERIES" connecting to the symbol, it makes me impatient to await the coming of AC3

LightRey
02-09-2012, 11:27 AM
lol you have been playIng Too much asSassns cReed my friEnd I BelievE that your Constructing things that are not there, but the faCt is that we do not have enough info on that and should stop Assuming. So....what is crazy is the fact that juno is appearing there and the gate has a female symbol with "OVERIES" connecting to the symbol, it makes me impatient to await the coming of AC3

I think you're the one who's been playing too much Assassin's Creed.

The13Doctors
02-09-2012, 11:38 AM
You silly people. It isn't Juno, Juno is in Rome, they are in America...

That women is clearly the one Juno was referring to, talking about it being the person they couldn't see, obviously Desmond's gotta get with her so he had to kill Lucy for it to happen...

dxsxhxcx
02-09-2012, 01:25 PM
If the "Eve" that Desmond needs to find end up being Rebecca, then Ubisoft officially screwed up with the franchise... :P

that woman at the end is probably another one of TWCB (it looks a lot like Juno so I'll place my bets on her) who has another message for Desmond...

The13Doctors
02-09-2012, 02:01 PM
If the "Eve" that Desmond needs to find end up being Rebecca, then Ubisoft officially screwed up with the franchise... :P

that woman at the end is probably another one of TWCB (it looks a lot like Juno so I'll place my bets on her) who has another message for Desmond...

Physically he just saw one, and in his mind he saw another. He has just recently seen Juno an appearance is unlikely. They all said that at that point there was nothing else they could do, that the rest is up to Desmond. I highly doubt they would come out of nowhere and be like "oh we were just kidding, go that way"

I think that's the Eve which is probably some new girl. As for Rebecca, she like and is probably secretly with Shaun which is Guy Fawkes lol.

LightRey
02-09-2012, 02:18 PM
You silly people. It isn't Juno, Juno is in Rome, they are in America...

That women is clearly the one Juno was referring to, talking about it being the person they couldn't see, obviously Desmond's gotta get with her so he had to kill Lucy for it to happen...

-__________-
Juno wasn't physically in Rome. She's dead. What you see is just an Eagle Vision message she left behind.

Also, again, STOP LINKING THE WOMAN JUNO MENTIONS TO EVE.

GLHS
02-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Naturally. TWCB are dead and gone. They can't procreate anymore. Any genetic memories of TWCB could only be found in their hybrid descendants.

Yeah, I get that part, although I'm still not sure that they would choose to go back that far, but we'll see. What I meant was what you said about her meaning that she was the person that would accompany Desmond through the gate. Obviously, she would know if she were talking about herself, but it wouldn't make any sense for her to mean that she is the one. You can make the assumption that she meant another human cuz she says it after she says that Lucy isn't the one and that "she lies not within our sight." Obviously, it's still very possible that her and other members of TWCB will be there, but I'm pretty sure she meant a human female companion for Desmond.


I think you're the one who's been playing too much Assassin's Creed.

Lol or takin too much crack.......either way, the posts make no sense at all.

The13Doctors
02-09-2012, 04:08 PM
-__________-
Juno wasn't physically in Rome. She's dead. What you see is just an Eagle Vision message she left behind.

Also, again, STOP LINKING THE WOMAN JUNO MENTIONS TO EVE.

I know, I didn't mean physically, I meant the hologram message thing.

As for Eve, I TRULY BELIEVE THE WOMAN MENTIONED IS EVE!

Gil_217
02-09-2012, 04:13 PM
I know, I didn't mean physically, I meant the hologram message thing.

As for Eve, I TRULY BELIEVE THE WOMAN MENTIONED IS EVE!

Obvious troll is obvious. You are the same guy who said in ACB you were on the siege of Vienna http://i29.tinypic.com/2zipl5u.gif, who happened in 1509, and now you say Juno mentioned Eve. Next you're going to say your games are different than ours.

Such idiocy doesn't exist, so yes, you're a troll, and you're not even average, just horrible.

LightRey
02-09-2012, 04:36 PM
I know, I didn't mean physically, I meant the hologram message thing.

As for Eve, I TRULY BELIEVE THE WOMAN MENTIONED IS EVE!

Well have fun believing it, but that doesn't make it fact. The fact of the matter is that Juno never even so much as mentions the name "Eve". It's fine if you think that she was talking about her (however, she does mention that she herself doesn't even know who the woman she's talking about is), but that doesn't mean you can just prance it around as if it's what everybody thinks.

I also don't see why you think that the fact that Juno left a message in Rome makes it impossible or improbable that she can't have left a similar message in New York. Besides, we have visual confirmation that it is Juno.

Gil_217
02-09-2012, 04:39 PM
Well have fun believing it, but that doesn't make it fact. The fact of the matter is that Juno never even so much as mentions the name "Eve". It's fine if you think that she was talking about her (however, she does mention that she herself doesn't even know who the woman she's talking about is), but that doesn't mean you can just prance it around as if it's what everybody thinks.

I also don't see why you think that the fact that Juno left a message in Rome makes it impossible or improbable that she can't have left a similar message in New York. Besides, we have visual confirmation that it is Juno.

The guy is clearly a troll man, please, don't feed him, that's the worst you can do, just ignore him.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-09-2012, 04:46 PM
Lol or takin too much crack.......either way, the posts make no sense at all.
wtf thats not cool, i see that your offended and you need to be offensive in order to make your point i believe that is against the rules to attack a fellow member like that ! im not participating in this thread anymore lol

LightRey
02-09-2012, 05:22 PM
The guy is clearly a troll man, please, don't feed him, that's the worst you can do, just ignore him.

I will not let it get out of hand, but I will also not allow his "points" to go unargued. People who didn't read the previous posts might still believe him.

GLHS
02-09-2012, 06:49 PM
wtf thats not cool, i see that your offended and you need to be offensive in order to make your point i believe that is against the rules to attack a fellow member like that ! im not participating in this thread anymore lol

I'm not trying to attack you. I'm just putting it out there. Dude, just look at your posts. You're not even making sense when you speak. The stuff about Rebecca is not founded by any clear facts or hints within the game. You're just basing it off your fondness of her. Plus, LightRey mentioned something before about Juno's quote "the cross darkens the horizon" and you made it sound like he just made that up and didn't know anything that he was talking about. Either you payed like zero attention to the games, you're trolling, or you're just being random about what you say and aren't actually trying to say anything. I think it's a bit of all of the above to be honest a lot of the time, but you have had some decent posts. It's the ones where you just babble random incoherent thoughts that I have a problem with.

The13Doctors
02-09-2012, 10:20 PM
I will not let it get out of hand, but I will also not allow his "points" to go unargued. People who didn't read the previous posts might still believe him.

I'm not a troll I believe she is Eve. It would make sense that just after killing Lucy that was stopping him from meeting Her , he meets her in New York, you all are forgetting a essential point, they had just arrived there for the first time. It may be a coincidence that she's there and meets him.

I don't think that's Juno, just someone with a Veil, the fact that someone is wearing an orange veil doesn't mean it has to be a TOWCB, the fact that it glowed could be that they made it glow so we couldn't see it so clearly or well, it could have something to do with the fact that everything was glowing -.-.

I never meant to imply that I everyone had to believe that theory, I can't imagine how you got that impression. It's just my own.

The13Doctors
02-09-2012, 10:25 PM
Presumably, Desmonds father and mother have good First-Civ DNA but not the "One in 10 million" lucky that Desmond is.

No, William doesn't have the DNA, Desmond's Mother does, it's why he couldn't operate the Apple, he doesn't have it.

LightRey
02-09-2012, 10:25 PM
I'm not a troll I believe she is Eve. It would make sense that just after killing Lucy that was stopping him from meeting Her , he meets her in New York, you all are forgetting a essential point, they had just arrived there for the first time. It may be a coincidence that she's there and meets him.

I don't think that's Juno, just someone with a Veil, the fact that someone is wearing an orange veil doesn't mean it has to be a TOWCB, the fact that it glowed could be that they made it glow so we couldn't see it so clearly or well, it could have something to do with the fact that everything was glowing -.-.

I never meant to imply that I everyone had to believe that theory, I can't imagine how you got that impression. It's just my own.

The veil is not the only identification mark. She has a metallic belt around her waist, just like Juno, identical looking robes and the same metallic whatever they are on her chest and head. Just watch some of the HD videos on Youtube, they should give you a better indication, albeit less clear than this particular picture.

I absolutely don't see how it's Eve. Eve is dead and she doesn't look like that woman at all.


No, William doesn't have the DNA, Desmond's Mother does, it's why he couldn't operate the Apple, he doesn't have it.

Incorrect. By now most if not all humans have TWCB DNA (as William implies with his "one in ten million" point). Desmond has an unusually high amount of TWCB DNA, suggesting that either his mother had an unusually high amount of it as well and he inherited it (unlikely, as that would bring up the question of why TWCB didn't simply use her instead of Desmond, or at least use her to help him) or the he luckily inherited the more significant amounts of both his parents and the combination of it resulted in this unusually high amount.

The13Doctors
02-09-2012, 10:33 PM
The veil is not the only identification mark. She has a metallic belt around her waist, just like Juno, identical looking robes and the same metallic whatever they are on her chest and head. Just watch some of the HD videos on Youtube, they should give you a better indication, albeit less clear than this particular picture.

I absolutely don't see how it's Eve. Eve is dead and she doesn't look like that woman at all.



Incorrect. By now most if not all humans have TWCB DNA (as William implies with his "one in ten million" point). Desmond has an unusually high amount of TWCB DNA, suggesting that either his mother had an unusually high amount of it as well and he inherited it (unlikely, as that would bring up the question of why TWCB didn't simply use her instead of Desmond, or at least use her to help him) or the he luckily inherited the more significant amounts of both his parents and the combination of it resulted in this unusually high amount.

Okay not Eve, I just pulled Eve in from this talk of her, never really knew what you were referring to, I believe she is the person Juno referred to.

Also, @ you...

Subject 16 is Adam's descendant, in his time in the Animus they went through some of his life...

LightRey
02-09-2012, 10:36 PM
Okay not Eve, I just pulled Eve in from this talk of her, never really knew what you were referring to, I believe she is the person Juno referred to.

Also, @ you...

Subject 16 is Adam's descendant, in his time in the Animus they went through some of his life...

As I said. She looks like Juno. The person Juno was referring to will likely be a lot harder to get to ("the cross darkens the horizon", etc.).

I know and so is likely the rest of humanity.

The13Doctors
02-09-2012, 10:39 PM
Incorrect. By now most if not all humans have TWCB DNA (as William implies with his "one in ten million" point). Desmond has an unusually high amount of TWCB DNA, suggesting that either his mother had an unusually high amount of it as well and he inherited it (unlikely, as that would bring up the question of why TWCB didn't simply use her instead of Desmond, or at least use her to help him) or the he luckily inherited the more significant amounts of both his parents and the combination of it resulted in this unusually high amount.

William said so himself, he doesn't have the DNA for it, that his mother was the one with the Gift.

I speculate the he isn't special at all, that maybe the DNA only needs to be passed by a single person, I'd assume that to pass on the DNA not everyone has to have it, Sofia Sartor didn't seem to have it and we know that Marcello Auditore and Flavia Auditore were Desmond's Ancestors which one of them led to Desmond, I believe it was Flavia.

Desmond's Mother had the DNA, his father was just an Assassin.

The13Doctors
02-09-2012, 10:44 PM
As I said. She looks like Juno. The person Juno was referring to will likely be a lot harder to get to ("the cross darkens the horizon", etc.).

I know and so is likely the rest of humanity.

No, everyone is an Eve Descendant. Having Adam's DNA is special, it's what made Subject 16 special as well as Desmond and probably the past Assassins.

It's the reason that Warren Vidic got so interested in Clay, he was surprised to find out that Clay had Adam's descendant so used it as an opportunity to visit Adam's Genetic Memory

LightRey
02-09-2012, 10:45 PM
William said so himself, he doesn't have the DNA for it, that his mother was the one with the Gift.

I speculate the he isn't special at all, that maybe the DNA only needs to be passed by a single person, I'd assume that to pass on the DNA not everyone has to have it, Sofia Sartor didn't seem to have it and we know that Marcello Auditore and Flavia Auditore were Desmond's Ancestors which one of them led to Desmond, I believe it was Flavia.

Desmond's Mother had the DNA, his father was just an Assassin.

William never mentioned Desmond's mother. That he doesn't have the DNA doesn't mean he has no TWCB DNA, it just means he doesn't have enough of it to use the apple (effectively). Adam and Eve were supposedly hybrids (which is also evidenced by the markings on their bodies that look very similar to the ones we can see on Desmond's arm at the end of ACR). If that is the case, then we know that most if not all humans have TWCB DNA as well, because most if not all humans will be direct descendants of Adam and Eve (even if they weren't the only humans/hybrids at the time, the bloodlines of all the others (except those whose lineage ended) will have mixed with them at this point).

You are jumping to conclusions is my point.


No, everyone is an Eve Descendant. Having Adam's DNA is special, it's what made Subject 16 special as well as Desmond and probably the past Assassins.

It's the reason that Warren Vidic got so interested in Clay, he was surprised to find out that Clay had Adam's descendant so used it as an opportunity to visit Adam's Genetic Memory

Are you kidding? Even if we don't believe the story that Eve only procreated with Adam, which would mean that if everyone is a descendant of Eve automatically everyone would also be a descendant of Adam, their bloodlines are equally old and will both have mixed with all the other bloodlines at the time by now.

You are once again jumping to conclusions. Even more so than before in fact.

The13Doctors
02-09-2012, 11:01 PM
William never mentioned Desmond's mother. That he doesn't have the DNA doesn't mean he has no TWCB DNA, it just means he doesn't have enough of it to use the apple (effectively). Adam and Eve were supposedly hybrids (which is also evidenced by the markings on their bodies that look very similar to the ones we can see on Desmond's arm at the end of ACR). If that is the case, then we know that most if not all humans have TWCB DNA as well, because most if not all humans will be direct descendants of Adam and Eve (even if they weren't the only humans/hybrids at the time, the bloodlines of all the others (except those whose lineage ended) will have mixed with them at this point).

You are jumping to conclusions is my point.



Are you kidding? Even if we don't believe the story that Eve only procreated with Adam, which would mean that if everyone is a descendant of Eve automatically everyone would also be a descendant of Adam, their bloodlines are equally old and will both have mixed with all the other bloodlines at the time by now.

In the AC world it's different, there were plenty of humans but they were imprisoned, after the war A&E were presumably dead. the Humans left were probably some of hundred thousands that were there before.

Not everyone has TOWCB DNA. It's descendants of Adam that have it. (I think).

Watch the ending to Revelations again, William said it.. Or it may have been throughout the game in one of the audio leaks..

LightRey
02-09-2012, 11:10 PM
In the AC world it's different, there were plenty of humans but they were imprisoned, after the war A&E were presumably dead. the Humans left were probably some of hundred thousands that were there before.

Not everyone has TOWCB DNA. It's descendants of Adam that have it. (I think).

Watch the ending to Revelations again, William said it.. Or it may have been throughout the game in one of the audio leaks..

It doesn't matter. Everyone from that time with surviving bloodlines (i.e. anyone with actual living descendants) is automatically the ancestor of basically everyone. Bloodlines mix. All native Europeans are already direct descendants of Charlemagne. If that is the case, then it's not hard to imagine that everyone is a descendant of Adam and Eve.

Yes, they do. It has never been stated that not everyone has TWCB DNA and since Adam and Eve were hybrids, my previous point proves the point that most if not all humans have TWCB DNA.

No, he didn't. He said nothing about his mother. In fact, I don't even think he mentions Desmond's mother at any point in the game.

The13Doctors
02-09-2012, 11:20 PM
It doesn't matter. Everyone from that time with surviving bloodlines (i.e. anyone with actual living descendants) is automatically the ancestor of basically everyone. Bloodlines mix. All native Europeans are already direct descendants of Charlemagne. If that is the case, then it's not hard to imagine that everyone is a descendant of Adam and Eve.

Yes, they do. It has never been stated that not everyone has TWCB DNA and since Adam and Eve were hybrids, my previous point proves the point that most if not all humans have TWCB DNA.

No, he didn't. He said nothing about his mother. In fact, I don't even think he mentions Desmond's mother at any point in the game.

Okay you probably have a point with the first two.

Yes he does, play the game again, did you ever go up the hill before going into the Animus in Revelations? You overhear him talking to Rebecca about the beauty of the Apple, at which point he states that she has nothing to worry about because he doesn't have the DNA to use it. He then states that Desmond does as his mother always had a "gift" So we can assume she could use Eagle Vision.

LightRey
02-09-2012, 11:28 PM
Okay you probably have a point with the first two.

Yes he does, play the game again, did you ever go up the hill before going into the Animus in Revelations? You overhear him talking to Rebecca about the beauty of the Apple, at which point he states that she has nothing to worry about because he doesn't have the DNA to use it. He then states that Desmond does as his mother always had a "gift" So we can assume she could use Eagle Vision.

No, you see, that's where you're wrong. He does mention that he himself doesn't have the DNA to (properly) use it, but he never says anything about Desmond's mother.

twenty_glyphs
02-10-2012, 12:18 AM
While every living native European may be a descendent of Charlemagne, not every European is a descendent of every other European living at the same time or before. There are tons of other Europeans alive during Charlemagne's time that Europeans of today are descended from, but they are not common ancestors of everyone in Europe. This is because those ancestry lines eventually merged into Charlemagne's line through procreation. Charlemagne just happens to be the focal point who lived under the right circum-stances to wind up being the most recent common ancestor of a large group of people. I'm seeing that Charlemagne had at least 20 children, so that's a huge reason why he became a common ancestor to everyone. Imagine that the family tree spread evenly and 1/20 of Europe is descended from one of Charlemagne's children. That same 1/20 is also descended from the mate of that child of Charlemagne. So you have possibly 20 other family lines that merged with Charlemagne's children, and plenty of other lines that merged into his line down the years with his grandchildren and beyond. So there are plenty of Europeans alive before Charlemagne who have large amounts of European descendants alive today, but are not ancestors of Charlemagne or ancestors of every living European.

Applying that to Adam and Eve of the AC Universe, there is nothing that says that just because they lived so long in the past and had children, that everyone today would be descended from them. There could certainly be a large number of descendants of Adam and Eve alive today, and their bloodline would have certainly mixed with large numbers of other people, but that doesn't automatically mean everyone alive today is descended from them. That would imply that everyone alive today is descended from everyone alive during Adam and Eve's time. If you go far back enough, everyone is descended from a common ancestor, but that doesn't mean that common ancestor has to be the Adam and Eve of the AC Universe, who we see were alive at the same time as plenty of other humans. In other words, you can trace a line backwards from everyone alive today to a common ancestor in the past, but you can't trace a line forward from anybody in the past to everybody alive today.

From a more practical standpoint in the story, if Adam and Eve are the ancestors of everyone alive today, then Abstergo could find their genetic memories in anyone they took off the street. Yet we see that it was important to Abstergo that Subject 16 had Adam and Eve as ancestors. If everyone alive had their genetic memory, I would think Abstergo would have already thoroughly researched those memories long before they got to the 16th subject of the Animus program.

*** Edited to get around the word filter fail with "circum-stances" ***

LightRey
02-10-2012, 12:30 AM
While every living native European may be a descendent of Charlemagne, not every European is a descendent of every other European living at the same time or before. There are tons of other Europeans alive during Charlemagne's time that Europeans of today are descended from, but they are not common ancestors of everyone in Europe. This is because those ancestry lines eventually merged into Charlemagne's line through procreation. Charlemagne just happens to be the focal point who lived under the right cir****tances to wind up being the most recent common ancestor of a large group of people. I'm seeing that Charlemagne had at least 20 children, so that's a huge reason why he became a common ancestor to everyone. Imagine that the family tree spread evenly and 1/20 of Europe is descended from one of Charlemagne's children. That same 1/20 is also descended from the mate of that child of Charlemagne. So you have possibly 20 other family lines that merged with Charlemagne's children, and plenty of other lines that merged into his line down the years with his grandchildren and beyond. So there are plenty of Europeans alive before Charlemagne who have large amounts of European descendants alive today, but are not ancestors of Charlemagne or ancestors of every living European.

Applying that to Adam and Eve of the AC Universe, there is nothing that says that just because they lived so long in the past and had children, that everyone today would be descended from them. There could certainly be a large number of descendants of Adam and Eve alive today, and their bloodline would have certainly mixed with large numbers of other people, but that doesn't automatically mean everyone alive today is descended from them. That would imply that everyone alive today is descended from everyone alive during Adam and Eve's time. If you go far back enough, everyone is descended from a common ancestor, but that doesn't mean that common ancestor has to be the Adam and Eve of the AC Universe, who we see were alive at the same time as plenty of other humans. In other words, you can trace a line backwards from everyone alive today to a common ancestor in the past, but you can't trace a line forward from anybody in the past to everybody alive today.

From a more practical standpoint in the story, if Adam and Eve are the ancestors of everyone alive today, then Abstergo could find their genetic memories in anyone they took off the street. Yet we see that it was important to Abstergo that Subject 16 had Adam and Eve as ancestors. If everyone alive had their genetic memory, I would think Abstergo would have already thoroughly researched those memories long before they got to the 16th subject of the Animus program.

Even if that is the case, one has to consider the fact that an incredibly large percentage of humankind will be directly related to Adam and Eve and one has to consider the fact that since Desmond is related to Italians, Englishmen and Arabs, he is already the convergence point of bloodlines from various cultural groups, combining a huge amount of bloodlines.

Furthermore, if we assume that there are 800 million native Europeans (~50 million less than the total amount of Europeans in 2010), we can estimate that more than 10% of the world is related to Charlemagne, who lived only about 1400 years ago. Now, if we assume that the human rebellion started with Adam and Eve (as is suggested by the encyclopedia) and that the date coincides with the moment humans started migrating from Africa (~100,000 years ago) I think we can safely assume that most if not all humans are related to Adam and Eve and even if those times do not coincide, a mere fraction of those 100,000 years could well be enough to reach the same conclusion.

One also has to remember that since the memories of Adam and Eve are so old and the fact that they are 50/50 hybrids could very well mean that their memories are unstable (which is further evidenced by the many glitches in the Truth video), which would explain why they would need S16 as he might just be a subject capable of achieving the necessary synchronization.

The13Doctors
02-10-2012, 05:20 AM
Even if that is the case, one has to consider the fact that an incredibly large percentage of humankind will be directly related to Adam and Eve and one has to consider the fact that since Desmond is related to Italians, Englishmen and Arabs, he is already the convergence point of bloodlines from various cultural groups, combining a huge amount of bloodlines.
.

Well there weren't just two humans... There were hundreds of thousands of them, maybe millions. After the War 10,000 humans survived, the majority of the population on Earth today wouldn't just be related to 2 people...

Moultonborough
02-10-2012, 05:34 AM
The only time Desmond's mother is mentioned is in AC while talking about his parents being like wardens. And also during the third journey where we actually hear her voice. That's it in the whole series.

GLHS
02-10-2012, 11:07 AM
There were many other humans alive before Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were not even close to the first humans. But they were the first hybrid humans that had enough of the TWCB DNA. I think Lightrey is trying to mix a little bit too much reality in with the way bloodlines work in AC. They work completely different. While, in reality it would be completely true that if all humans originated with Adam and Eve, that everybody is related to them in some way or form, even though the bloodlines become diluted. But considering the fact of how bloodlines work in AC, some random woman that had a child during that time could've had a kid that had a kid that had a kid etc. down through the ages, and lets take me for example. I could be related to that kid, without being related to Adam and/or Eve. Plus, Adam and Eve were presumably dead after the big solar flare, and any one of us could be related to any one of the people that survived and had kids, or any of the people that TWCB procreated with and had kids. Adam and Eve were really just 2 random hybrid people. They only hold such significance in AC b/c they stole the Apple and started the war. That is exactly why Clay and Desmond are not related. The only common ancestor that they have is Ezio. But b/c of the way that bloodlines work in AC, that doesn't automatically make them related. Desmond is a convergence of many, many different bloodlines and therefore why he has such high concentration of TWCB DNA. He's got not only Altair's bloodline, but Ezio's, and any other Assassins that had a high concentration of TWCB genes all converging into his bloodline. But neither Ezio, nor Altair were related down the ages with Adam and Eve. And they don't have to be to have a higher concentration of the gene, thus giving them Eagle Vision. All they have to do is have a better synch with the TWCB gene, which is present is all humans. In reality, Clay and Desmond should be related, b/c anybody related is supposed to share a bloodline. But they don't. They just share a common ancestor, and in the AC universe, that doesn't at all mean relation.

LightRey
02-10-2012, 11:36 AM
Well there weren't just two humans... There were hundreds of thousands of them, maybe millions. After the War 10,000 humans survived, the majority of the population on Earth today wouldn't just be related to 2 people...

I never said there were. If there were it would be much simpler. If there were only 2 humans we'd all be related to both of them and that would be that.

You really need to pay more attention to what I'm saying. Nobody is related to only 2 separate people from the same generation. Just look at your grandparents. You have 4 of them, not 2. 8 great-grand parents, etc. At some point there will of course be overlap (the amount stops increasing exponentially at that point).

Also, about the disaster. it coincides with a bottleneck in human evolution that has been tied to a volcanic eruption (but in AC it's not a simple volcanic eruption, but a solar flare, it's mentioned in one of the Truth files in AC2). This bottleneck occurred roughly 73,000 years ago (give or take a few thousand years). It is unknown just how many humans lived on the entire planet, but it is known that the entire population was reduced to about 10,000. Even if we were to assume that only one of these people is related to Adam and Eve, we'd have a minimum of 69,000 years for them to mix with other bloodlines. That's about 2,300 generations (making another rather preposterous assumption that the average person gets children while at age 30). Now are you really willing to bet that after 2,300 generations a maximum of 10,000 (a huge overestimation) different bloodlines would not have merged? Even if you would be, we are completely ignoring the likely 31,000 years before, as Adam and Eve likely lived about 100,000 years ago.


The only time Desmond's mother is mentioned is in AC while talking about his parents being like wardens. And also during the third journey where we actually hear her voice. That's it in the whole series.

That's what I thought.