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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:31 PM
I'm sorry to whine but could we have the Bf109 claxon turned off. Or at least lower it a bit cause it's very loud.

I fly every night and my flatmates don't mind the shooting and engine noises but whenever I lower the flaps I feel like I'm annoying them (which I am).

From what I have read you could only hear the claxon when the engine was idling.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:31 PM
I'm sorry to whine but could we have the Bf109 claxon turned off. Or at least lower it a bit cause it's very loud.

I fly every night and my flatmates don't mind the shooting and engine noises but whenever I lower the flaps I feel like I'm annoying them (which I am).

From what I have read you could only hear the claxon when the engine was idling.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:35 PM
Not being funny "BUY SOME HEADPHONES"

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:01 PM
I see your point but I forgot to mention that the claxon drives me crazy as well, it seems to be louder than the engine and carries much further. I prefer using my lovely 5.1 speakers to my headphones. I used to use headphones but kept missing the phone and people ringing the doorbell.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:09 PM
Trouble is everyone wants the most realistic settings possible and this little foible was built into the 109 so the pilot had to live with it too (short of stuffing a sock in the klaxon) so you`ll probarly just have to live with it as well.

get a sock

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:36 PM
That's just what I mean though, I want the most realistic settings too. It's just that it wasn't that loud in real life either, you could only hear it when the engine was idling, I can't remember where I read this but I've seen it mentioned in articles.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:47 PM
Gee, people, you make me laugh. That claxon is so cool !!!

I always smile when I lower the flaps in 109 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 11:02 PM
Xnomad wrote:
- That's just what I mean though, I want the most
- realistic settings too. It's just that it wasn't
- that loud in real life either, you could only hear
- it when the engine was idling, I can't remember
- where I read this but I've seen it mentioned in
- articles.
-
-

Im not disputing you sources but how would you hear it when the engine is at idle,with the wheels down the klaxon stops. Unless you were gliding

just a thought



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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 11:06 PM
German saftey feature, lol. like that annoying 6 beeps I get when I put my ex-car into neutral.

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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 11:26 PM
elvive wrote:
- Im not disputing you sources but how would you hear
- it when the engine is at idle,with the wheels down
- the klaxon stops. Unless you were gliding
-
- just a thought



Yeah I wondered that myself when I read that too but I think they just meant the engine idling whilst gliding or at very low revs, which would be on approach to an airfield, then you would hear the claxon and think, oh $hit I forgot to put the landing gear down.

Quite funny really considering the Bf 109 had a hell of a lot of landing accidents, you would think with that reputation the last thing a pilot would do would be to forget to lower the landing gear /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I can't find my sources I was sure it was online but I've been searching now for the past hour and can't find it, maybe it's in one of my books.



Message Edited on 11/10/0310:29PM by Xnomad

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:03 AM
It's in the BF-109 G2 manual, page 12 of the English translation of the Finnish version. A file called bf109g2.pdf.

"8) You will hear an audible warning if the undercarriage is not down and locked and the flaps are down. The sound can only be heard when the engine is idle."

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Message Edited on 11/11/0302:07AM by plumps_

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 08:22 AM
I like it. I think the dev team have really more serious things to work on for the future of this sim than to satisfy people who can't miss the phone. No offense..



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XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 02:38 PM
Well, there has been alot of complaining about how you can hear things (other planes, gunfire etc) that you shouldn't be able to hear. I have heard cars without mufflers (much smaller than an aircraft engine and the car wasnt at full power) and I think the real problem is that the engine sounds are not even remotely loud enough.

So don't think of it as claxon too loud, think of it as engine waaaayy too quiet.

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 06:15 PM
Historically, the claxon only started to work if

a, Engine was running idle

AND

b, Pilot began to lower the flaps.

AND

c, Undercarriege was up.

This was to prevent accidents with forgotful pilots. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I am not sure but I believe the claxon in Il-2 also heard when you are running at full power. Oleg should add a line to the program that it would only be heard if the engine is idle, too...



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Message Edited on 11/12/0306:16PM by Vo101_Isegrim

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 07:20 PM
I wonder how many Luftwaffe pilots found the claxon annoying, at times, and had the crew chief install a toggle switch to kill the verdammte thing and an indicator light to show flaps are deployed.

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 08:10 PM
elvive wrote:
- Trouble is everyone wants the most realistic
- settings possible and this little foible was built
- into the 109 so the pilot had to live with it too
- (short of stuffing a sock in the klaxon) so you`ll
- probarly just have to live with it as well.
-
- get a sock
-

The German 109 pilots (back then) probably have cut a few electrical wires as well /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 02:06 AM
Get ready to enjoy the Spitfire's warning horn- which sounds when the wheels are not yet locked down and the engine is being throttled back (all marks).

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 02:23 AM
I felt the same way...I just got used to it....

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XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 10:49 AM
that's because it's a warning to keep you from landing on your propeller. Granted the severety of crashing a very expensive war plane, and having no reason but not knowing your gear are down... i'd say this was an invaluable mechanism. As such, i don't think that your issues with flatmates should cause it to be removed.

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 03:16 PM
Lion_13 wrote:
- I wonder how many Luftwaffe pilots found the claxon
- annoying, at times, and had the crew chief install a
- toggle switch to kill the verdammte thing and an
- indicator light to show flaps are deployed.
-
-

Probably none /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif because what Isegrim said was 100% right. It was a <u>gear warning horn</u>, to warn that you were about to land with the gear up - not an unnecessary flap warning like it is in FB. Therefore, it only went off if in the landing configuration (flap down, throttle idle) AND the gear wasn't down.

It didn't go off after retracting the gear after take-off, nor did it go off in flight if combat flap was deployed. So it wasn't annoying for real and would have been a welcome reminder that you were about to f*** up!

I've posted this before, but either it's deemed too small a bug to fix or I just get ignored, because I haven't made 1000+ posts /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Kernow
249 IAP


Message Edited on 11/13/0302:21PM by Kernow

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 05:31 PM
i do not mind this claxon.

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 08:31 PM
p isses me off
should have a option to shoot it with luger /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


whineingu /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 12:08 AM
This this is just plain annoying. Flying with a german squad, I get loads of stick time in the 109 series, and this is something I've gotten used to being annoyed by.

I think the problem is that the engine is too quiet. It should be atleast as loud as gun sounds (Remember, gun sound is impulse, engine should seem louder as it's a continuous sound).

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 12:51 AM
At first I hated the klaxon, especially knowing it was wrong in the way it operates. Now, I kinda like it as it usefully reminds me that I am still in combat flaps and I may want to raise them to pick up more speed in a pursuit after turning. On other planes I forget sometimes that my flaps are deployed.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 12:58 AM
It's just bloody annoying...and not only that, it's WRONG.

You hear it whenever flaps are deployed and gear is up, not simply with the engine in idle.

It's just another annoyance that is foisted on German pilots (along with the default "off-center" view, the museum-grade yellowed canopy glass, etc.).

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 05:07 AM
Well it IS annoying & isegrim convinced me it's not accurate so it would be nice to have it changed. but i can live with it if it doesn't get fixed.

Stigler, man lay off the coffee for a while OK ?

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 11:25 AM
Stiglr wrote:
- It's just another annoyance that is foisted on
- German pilots (along with the default "off-center"
- view, the museum-grade yellowed canopy glass, etc.).
-
-
-
-

You didn't even mention the 190 forward view... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Kernow
249 IAP


Message Edited on 11/14/0310:26AM by Kernow

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 01:46 PM
Lion_13 wrote:
- I wonder how many Luftwaffe pilots found the claxon
- annoying, at times, and had the crew chief install a
- toggle switch to kill the verdammte thing and an
- indicator light to show flaps are deployed.

I'm a Crew Chief, so I think I can answer that one for you (ya, an F-117/F-16 crew chief, but we're all a little bit the same and have been since there were airplanes). If the pilot actually wanted to remove the horn and replace it with a light, the crew chief would probably tell him no, and then tell everyone he knows how some "zipperhead" tried to tell him what to do with "his" (the planes belong to us, not the pilots, btw) airplane.



Tim
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Almond Snickers-

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 04:59 PM
What you say is true for the USAF, but maybe not for the Luftwaffe, especially in WW2.

After all, in the discussion on Bf109 K (?) aileron trim, when ailerons were repaired, there is some indication that the Felscher (sic) tab was left off. And didn't one B-17 crew install a toilet in the bombbay (see post elsewhere) or put steel plates on B-25s to protect the pilots (became standard on the next model).

Where I was stationed in Germany, we had a pair of Luftwaffe F-104s land and park next to the shop. One came in so hot he blew a main gear tire. Our transit maintenance crew changed the tire, then tied rags around various hydraulic leaks on the gear and put the largest drip pan they had under the it. The next day, the pilot removed the rags, kicked the dip pan away, lit up and took-off.

We (USAF) would have grounded that aircraft until all was fixed. The Luftwaffe maintenance philosophy, at that time, was 'If it ain't broke don't fix it.' They didn't do phase inspections like we do and they lost over 60% of their F-104s, and for other reasons too.

I TDY'd in support of a NATO Tiger Meet and the difference between our air force and others was amazing. The Canadians got to drink beer on their breaks./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

So, it is not unlikely that Luftwaffe pilot had a switch installed or maybe he just pulled the kalxon circuit breaker /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 05:28 PM
waow... what model of B17 had the toilet in bomb bay as standard equipment? I should take a look next time i'm under a FB B17 to see if it is modelled...

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XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 05:53 PM
It was used, according to the story, to dump a jelled gasoline mixture of enemy ac trying for a belly shot. The gasoline was ignited by tracer rounds from the ball turret.

Read it on a post, can't recall where.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 06:23 PM
Kernow wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You didn't even mention the 190 forward view... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do I really *have* to?

Sorry if I appear to "have had too much coffee", as somebody put it, but over the life of this sim I've seen enough of the little "annoy the German" features that this kind of thing rubs raw. It's wrong, it ought to be fixed straight away, but there's either some reason "it can't" or someone just digs in their heels, crosses their arms and refuses to fix it. The yellow, smudged glass in later model 109s is the next most egregious on the list, followed by the cartoon gun flashes (which surely could be changed by changing a duration value or amending a few particles/sprites?)

This is in distinct contrast from early on in the product's life when the team was much more open to fixes, and didn't seem to take each criticism so personally.

With all the planes and systems in this sim, it's perfectly natural that things will be missed and things will be wrong. All I'm asking is that *in the end*, the measure is that things be right.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 07:26 PM
Stiglr wrote:
- Kernow wrote:
- <quote>You didn't even mention the 190 forward
- view... </quote>
-
- Do I really *have* to?
-
Not really I suppose /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Kernow
249 IAP

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 08:04 PM
Stigler, can't see what you mean by the default off-center view ? VVS planes too use the gunsight shift if that is what you're talking about ??
i kinda like the dirty glass feels more like i'm inside a plane, but i use icons a lotso..

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 10:16 PM
The off center view was historical, and if you were inside a cockpit of a 109 you would have the Revi right in your right eye FOV, but since this is a simulation, you can't reproduce everything, can you?
And I like them dirty, It feels like a real warplane. Too bad if the others don't have it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 01:02 AM
@Saburo O:

My point about the gunsight is that:

1)Because of binocular vision, and the cramped confines of a 109 cockpit, the slightly offset placement of the Revi has basically NO effect on vision. It was put there because of pilots' tendenccy to be right eye dominant (the Messerschmitt engineers did not go out of their way to make it harder to fight in the plane!) Thus, in game, you should not have to manage your view (to the extent that you need to invoke a key command) to look through the sight.

2) The off-skewed view is the default, and you have to use Alt+F1 to "center the gunsight view". This is NOT well documented in the sim, and people come onto the forums all the time trying to figure it out. It would seem to me that in a combat sim, our planes would be set up to default be ready to fight. As it is, the off center view adds absolutely NOTHING to flying the 109s. For landing or viewing outside the plane, the 1 degree or so does NOTHING to the view outside. All it does is make the difference inside the plane between being able to see your crosshair and not.

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 01:09 AM
Here's a case where this "feature" *would* be applicable...

planes with telescopic sights (like early Japanese Claudes and Nates, a couple US Navy divebombers, etc.)

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 06:57 AM
Stiglr wrote:
- Here's a case where this "feature" *would* be
- applicable...
-
- planes with telescopic sights (like early Japanese
- Claudes and Nates, a couple US Navy divebombers,
- etc.)
-
-
Very good point, tho those sights would really be annoying.Most people said they stank.


I see what you mean but i personally haven't found it to be that big of a problem, & sometimes useful for looking around struts. it des take up more buttons on my joystick tho, which is bad.
So the attempt at doing something to reflect the right of center gunsight is one of those details that i thought the true 109 fans would embrace. I agre it is very poorly documented & does cause a lot of confusion. i dont think it was an intentional effort to drive 109 pilots crazy,. I have to say that the binocular vision arguments for reduced cockpit framing do have my vote. I'm not an artist so don't know how they can decide what measurements are right if they don't strictly follow the drawings etc, but my screen is so small that it serves as canaopy frames to an extent. but i don't like cockpit off because i don;t feel like i'm in a plane.