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kenshijr
01-30-2012, 04:31 PM
Is she dead?Why or Why not?

Explain why or why not you think this "Assassin" is dead or alive. (I would appreciate any statements, theories, or opinions).

SixKeys
01-30-2012, 04:37 PM
Yes. Because in Revelations they confirmed she has already been buried.

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 04:56 PM
you see thats what i was thinking too, but what if shes not, or simply a cover up. Just thinking outside the box

stefman6987
01-30-2012, 05:08 PM
she is dead, and if you have played multiplayer and unlocked all the files, abstergo talk bout moles and that one is in the assassin order, so this could only mean one thing.. shes a templar, and you should pay attention to brother hood, subject 16 sais in the truth "she is not who you think she is" and the file sais "the miracle is in the execution", juno sais "the cross darkens the horizon, the scales will be balanced" so my conclusion is that she is a templar and twcb knew this.. but the other give aways is when lucy goes talks to william miles in brotherhood and leaves red blood steps, i think ubisoft are planning on released single player dlc which reveals why she betrayed the assassin's, makes sense

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 05:18 PM
she is dead, and if you have played multiplayer and unlocked all the files, abstergo talk bout moles and that one is in the assassin order, so this could only mean one thing.. shes a templar, and you should pay attention to brother hood, subject 16 sais in the truth "she is not who you think she is" and the file sais "the miracle is in the execution", juno sais "the cross darkens the horizon, the scales will be balanced" so my conclusion is that she is a templar and twcb knew this.. but the other give aways is when lucy goes talks to william miles in brotherhood and leaves red blood steps, i think ubisoft are planning on released single player dlc which reveals why she betrayed the assassin's, makes sense

I like that very nice and well said, that would interesting if your theory were true and a release of dlc. But I was discussing with a friend about subject's sixteen video about what he said "she is not who you think she is" i want to say i thought the exact same thing especially after beating acb but my friend believes that subject 16 was talking about Juno. It kind of makes sense, there is just something weird, fishy and mysterious about them. Even after what we know from the ending of ACR.

LordWolv
01-30-2012, 05:21 PM
AHEM, SPOILERS.
Anyone who hasn't finished brotherhood is going to see that title and completely facepalm, you've just told them the ending.
Change the title now for the people's sake.

lukaszep
01-30-2012, 05:30 PM
While they say in the game she is dead, something doesn't quite add up to me, about Shaun staying behind to attend the funeral. I'm not sure. A part of me thinks she is still alive, or in a coma or something, but maybe it's just because the same little part of me wants her to be alive, because she was a good character.
It's a shame if she really is dead, because it was a good dynamic between her and Desmond. But it'll make for a good twist if she is alive :)

LordWolv
01-30-2012, 05:36 PM
She is dead.
The Assassin's Creed Encyclopaedia reads, and I quote,

Under Juno's influence, Desmond stabbed Lucy in the abdomen, killing her.
I honestly think you don't need more evidence than that. Encyclopaedias do not lie intentionally, if they were intending to bring her back, they would have left out the 'killing her' at the end therefore making you assume her death.

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 05:36 PM
While they say in the game she is dead, something doesn't quite add up to me, about Shaun staying behind to attend the funeral. I'm not sure. A part of me thinks she is still alive, or in a coma or something, but maybe it's just because the same little part of me wants her to be alive, because she was a good character.
It's a shame if she really is dead, because it was a good dynamic between her and Desmond. But it'll make for a good twist if she is alive :)

im with you on this one, a part just doesnt add up. Its just to subtle you know, we will see tho, im sure AC3 will have some twist and turns

stefman6987
01-30-2012, 05:47 PM
the problem is, all the clues are there, and if you guys listened to the leaked audio that was released at the start of this month, vidic discusses with someone about taking desmond to a secure place so he feels welcome, it all adds up, he also sais "ask them why they abandoned you for 7 years" and in ac2 when lucy meets up with shaun and rebecca they say "it's been 7 years", TWCB are all good, they left messages for desmond, you can say that 16's message was aimed at juno, but juno was the one who made desmond stab lucy and the message left by 16 was "the miracle is in the execution" they both add up, i think it will be really interesting when it's all revealed in the game... if she is made out to be in a coma or something, that would ruin the game, this is a really big climax in the game, and i just can't wait to see what happens aha, that's why i'm hoping for single player dlc

OHH and, juno sais "there is one who will accompany her... go find her" and 16 sais "find her, eve... in eden her dna" just a little extra insight, this is why i think lucy is a templar

LordWolv
01-30-2012, 05:49 PM
Are you completely ignoring my post?

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 05:52 PM
what leaked audio are you talking about? I wanna to hear it. yea i remember subject 16's video but i dont know something doesnt add up. I mean i know Lucy has her mysterious moments in the game like disappearing when you wake from the animus and those weird unexplained emails on acb. But theres got to be more, and i cant wait to see it in depth

stefman6987
01-30-2012, 05:59 PM
BEWARE PEEPS.. SPOILERS!!
At the start of the month there was leaked audio rip released, it was about 21 mins long.. i've only heard like 15 mins of it, it's all been removed by ubisoft off of youtube and everything now, here are the links of the articles with people discussing it, theres probably more out there. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/628358-assassins-creed-revelations/61508495 , http://www.lo-ping.org/2011/12/30/on-disk-dlc-for-assassins-creed-revelations-revealed-ripped-audio-spoilers/
i only found it because i was curious about single player dlc aha, but pretty much it talks about subject 16's or clays personal life, he quit uni to help out william miles and infiltrate abstergo, william sais that an assassin there will be helping him, lucy let's clay access to the animus so he can upload the glyphs, at one point it actually sais glyphs uploaded. and clay starts to go crazy, then it has vidic talking to a assassins, it's obviously lucy, and he sais from memory "take 17 to your assassins friends hideout" and just other staff i can't exactly remember, but it pretty much summed it up for me, my only guess is that lucy felt bad for 16's death and got suckered in by vidic, but man just look it up on google you will find heaps of info on it. ohh and there's even a moment with adam and eve talking

tarrero
01-30-2012, 06:15 PM
She likely is, but I read somewhere that the next DLC may explain whay she died, also, I was thinking that she could alive if the producers come up that her death and burial, was an illusion created from Juno through the apple.

sticks165
01-30-2012, 06:15 PM
hey dude change the title and add spoiler to it, some people haven't finished the game.

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 06:17 PM
BEWARE PEEPS.. SPOILERS!!
At the start of the month there was leaked audio rip released, it was about 21 mins long.. i've only heard like 15 mins of it, it's all been removed by ubisoft off of youtube and everything now, here are the links of the articles with people discussing it, theres probably more out there. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/628358-assassins-creed-revelations/61508495 , http://www.lo-ping.org/2011/12/30/on-disk-dlc-for-assassins-creed-revelations-revealed-ripped-audio-spoilers/
i only found it because i was curious about single player dlc aha, but pretty much it talks about subject 16's or clays personal life, he quit uni to help out william miles and infiltrate abstergo, william sais that an assassin there will be helping him, lucy let's clay access to the animus so he can upload the glyphs, at one point it actually sais glyphs uploaded. and clay starts to go crazy, then it has vidic talking to a assassins, it's obviously lucy, and he sais from memory "take 17 to your assassins friends hideout" and just other staff i can't exactly remember, but it pretty much summed it up for me, my only guess is that lucy felt bad for 16's death and got suckered in by vidic, but man just look it up on google you will find heaps of info on it. ohh and there's even a moment with adam and eve talking

very nice dude, thanks for that. Im going to look a bit more into it. I just really want to see it with my own eyes about lucy and if so why she betrayed the assassins

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 06:19 PM
hey dude change the title and add spoiler to it, some people haven't finished the game.

I apologize about that but i dont know how to change the title, im serious too

sticks165
01-30-2012, 06:23 PM
I apologize about that but i dont know how to change the title, im serious too

it should be in the top where it says thread tools

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 06:31 PM
it should be in the top where it says thread tools

nope, nothing!!!

GLHS
01-30-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm sorry, but this thread is kinda dumb. I do understand that there is a lot of mystery in Assassin's Creed, and by some miracle plot twist, people are gonna think she is still alive, but there is more than enough sufficient proof and in-game dialogue that supports that she is dead and buried. They're not gonna bring her back. They're not gonna lie about her being dead. and for the record, she was only a good character if you think she was an Assassin. But she wasn't, at least at the end. She was a Templar. She was a horrible character, a b1tch and a traitor. I'm glad she's dead, and her being dead is safer for Desmond and all the rest of the Assassins. Better dead than killing one of them or giving the Apple off to Vidic.

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 06:36 PM
I'm sorry, but this thread is kinda dumb. I do understand that there is a lot of mystery in Assassin's Creed, and by some miracle plot twist, people are gonna think she is still alive, but there is more than enough sufficient proof and in-game dialogue that supports that she is dead and buried. They're not gonna bring her back. They're not gonna lie about her being dead. and for the record, she was only a good character if you think she was an Assassin. But she wasn't, at least at the end. She was a Templar. She was a horrible character, a b1tch and a traitor. I'm glad she's dead, and her being dead is safer for Desmond and all the rest of the Assassins. Better dead than killing one of them or giving the Apple off to Vidic.

well if she is truly dead, some dlc would be really nice to explain the mysterious parts that we are trying to figure out

GLHS
01-30-2012, 06:39 PM
And as a previous poster already mentioned, DLC that explains everything about Clay and Lucy is coming soon. So have no fear, we will be getting answers.

stefman6987
01-30-2012, 06:43 PM
And as a previous poster already mentioned, DLC that explains everything about Clay and Lucy is coming soon. So have no fear, we will be getting answers.

yeah, just way to curious, i just want it now.. ahaha, will definitely be interesting to find out.

POP1Fan
01-30-2012, 06:52 PM
Yes i think she is dead.Why? Because they stated so in the game.

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 06:55 PM
And as a previous poster already mentioned, DLC that explains everything about Clay and Lucy is coming soon. So have no fear, we will be getting answers.

really? nice, btw who is clay?

POP1Fan
01-30-2012, 06:57 PM
Subject 16.

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 06:57 PM
Yes i think she is dead.Why? Because they stated so in the game.

straight to point huh? Well my purpose for this thread is not spoil, nor argue with anyone, but more to find out what is going until Ubisoft decides to lets jump on the bandwagon. Its going to have open discussion different people like to state their opinions.

POP1Fan
01-30-2012, 07:02 PM
Sorry if I sounded rude or anything.It was my opinion, i don't want to argue with anyone :D

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 07:09 PM
Sorry if I sounded rude or anything.It was my opinion, i don't want to argue with anyone :D

naw your cool, i didnt take it that way. If there really is a dlc, im excited for that. Speaking about dlc, i would like one involving more of Altair, more depth of his involvement in the Assassin order

lukaszep
01-30-2012, 09:01 PM
She is dead.
The Assassin's Creed Encyclopaedia reads, and I quote,

I honestly think you don't need more evidence than that. Encyclopaedias do not lie intentionally, if they were intending to bring her back, they would have left out the 'killing her' at the end therefore making you assume her death.

The Encyclopedia compiles knowledge that we see as fact. Doesn't necessarily make it true. From what we have seen, she COULD be dead. From what we've heard she IS dead. If i finish AC3, and she's still dead, i'll believe it. After such a turn of events, her just being dead seems to simple to me.


I'm sorry, but this thread is kinda dumb. I do understand that there is a lot of mystery in Assassin's Creed, and by some miracle plot twist, people are gonna think she is still alive, but there is more than enough sufficient proof and in-game dialogue that supports that she is dead and buried. They're not gonna bring her back. They're not gonna lie about her being dead. and for the record, she was only a good character if you think she was an Assassin. But she wasn't, at least at the end. She was a Templar. She was a horrible character, a b1tch and a traitor. I'm glad she's dead, and her being dead is safer for Desmond and all the rest of the Assassins. Better dead than killing one of them or giving the Apple off to Vidic.

Only characters in-game have outright said, "Lucy is dead". My original point was, (although i guess i wasn't clear enough) what if, okay they thought she was dead, but then survived? What if they didn't want Desmond to know she was still alive? Lucy was seen as a distraction to Desmond, so if he believes she is dead, why bring her back to him?
I believe she was/is a good character, whether she was a Templar or not. And it's not that i like her just because she's an assassin. In my eyes, if she provoked an emotional response (like you just demonstrated) then she was a good character.

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 09:59 PM
The Encyclopedia compiles knowledge that we see as fact. Doesn't necessarily make it true. From what we have seen, she COULD be dead. From what we've heard she IS dead. If i finish AC3, and she's still dead, i'll believe it. After such a turn of events, her just being dead seems to simple to me.



Only characters in-game have outright said, "Lucy is dead". My original point was, (although i guess i wasn't clear enough) what if, okay they thought she was dead, but then survived? What if they didn't want Desmond to know she was still alive? Lucy was seen as a distraction to Desmond, so if he believes she is dead, why bring her back to him?
I believe she was/is a good character, whether she was a Templar or not. And it's not that i like her just because she's an assassin. In my eyes, if she provoked an emotional response (like you just demonstrated) then she was a good character.

very well said lukaszep, i like that type of thinking. I agree with you once we finish AC3 and she's dead well then obviously she is.

CanterburyTales
01-30-2012, 11:43 PM
I think that Lucy is dead, though I'm not 100% sure. What I am really wondering is whether or not she's dead for good. It may be possible for Desmond to bring her back with the Shroud of Eden, and unlike others who have tried to resurrect someone with it, Desmond will succeed due to his heritage.

SixKeys
01-31-2012, 12:04 AM
I thought the Shroud was only able to resurrect someone who was within an inch of their life or very recently deceased. In Project Legacy they tried it on Brutus after he had been killed and it failed to bring him back but it worked on Giovanni Borgia as a baby when he was weak but still alive. If Lucy has already been buried, I doubt the Shroud would work on her anymore.

Voltige2011
01-31-2012, 03:56 AM
People in the series have died from much simpler things. She died. Live with the plot twist and change the title. You just spoiled the ending for somebody.

kenshijr
01-31-2012, 05:00 AM
I think that Lucy is dead, though I'm not 100% sure. What I am really wondering is whether or not she's dead for good. It may be possible for Desmond to bring her back with the Shroud of Eden, and unlike others who have tried to resurrect someone with it, Desmond will succeed due to his heritage.

interesting, what is the Shroud of Eden exactly?

GLHS
01-31-2012, 09:10 AM
The Encyclopedia compiles knowledge that we see as fact. Doesn't necessarily make it true. From what we have seen, she COULD be dead. From what we've heard she IS dead. If i finish AC3, and she's still dead, i'll believe it. After such a turn of events, her just being dead seems to simple to me.



Only characters in-game have outright said, "Lucy is dead". My original point was, (although i guess i wasn't clear enough) what if, okay they thought she was dead, but then survived? What if they didn't want Desmond to know she was still alive? Lucy was seen as a distraction to Desmond, so if he believes she is dead, why bring her back to him?
I believe she was/is a good character, whether she was a Templar or not. And it's not that i like her just because she's an assassin. In my eyes, if she provoked an emotional response (like you just demonstrated) then she was a good character.

The Assassins didn't believe she was a distraction, though. Obviously TWCB did, and saw her as an immediate threat to him and his mission, so they had her disposed of. The Assassins, however, felt she was somewhat of a driving force for Desmond. And good inspiration. It wouldn't even make sense for them to "hide" her death or lie about it. Plus, they didn't even know Desmond could hear some of the things they were saying when he was in his coma. I'll bet you anything, if it was real life, there would've been a whole lot more things said in front of him that he didn't hear b/c of his coma. So I guarantee he didn't hear it all. But what he did hear, we heard. And also, the devs have confirmed themselves that she is indeed dead in a recent Game Informer interview. Now their focus is answering why she was killed, which they are working on. But in reality, as has been talked about in other threads, for all we know, it could've been something to do with Kristen Bell leaving the project, so they had to weave Lucy's death into the storyline. Either way, she's dead. As Voltige2011 (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/949271-Voltige2011) has stated: people just have to live with the plot twist. It's what happened. Don't make it into something it's not.

And about the shroud thing: I had thought about that early on too, before Revelations was released.But after playing Revelations, I very highly doubt they are going to go that route with the story. And I agree that even if they tried, it probably wouldn't work. Although it may have the ability to bring Desmond back if something happens to him............just sayin.

kenshijr
01-31-2012, 09:15 AM
The Assassins didn't believe she was a distraction, though. Obviously TWCB did, and saw her as an immediate threat to him and his mission, so they had her disposed of. The Assassins, however, felt she was somewhat of a driving force for Desmond. And good inspiration. It wouldn't even make sense for them to "hide" her death or lie about it. Plus, they didn't even know Desmond could hear some of the things they were saying when he was in his coma. I'll bet you anything, if it was real life, there would've been a whole lot more things said in front of him that he didn't hear b/c of his coma. So I guarantee he didn't hear it all. But what he did hear, we heard. And also, the devs have confirmed themselves that she is indeed dead in a recent Game Informer interview. Now their focus is answering why she was killed, which they are working on. But in reality, as has been talked about in other threads, for all we know, it could've been something to do with Kristen Bell leaving the project, so they had to weave Lucy's death into the storyline. Either way, she's dead. As Voltige2011 (http://forums.ubi.com/member.php/949271-Voltige2011) has stated: people just have to live with the plot twist. It's what happened. Don't make it into something it's not.

Ah lucy why? why? what did you get yourself into...

YuurHeen
01-31-2012, 09:16 AM
rotting in the ground.

kenshijr
01-31-2012, 02:09 PM
rotting in the groung.

^huh, say what now?

Sizzlemon
01-31-2012, 02:24 PM
Well, seeing how Clay (Subject 16) was talking to Desmond about her funeral inside the Animus, and the fact that at the end of ACB Desmond stabbed Lucy, and the final trophy/achievement for finishing the game was 'A Knife To The Heart' and the fact they are underground, inside an ancient vault where no-one can rescue them, I'd say she's dead... But that's just me...

kenshijr
01-31-2012, 02:30 PM
Well, seeing how Clay (Subject 16) was talking to Desmond about her funeral inside the Animus, and the fact that at the end of ACB Desmond stabbed Lucy, and the final trophy/achievement for finishing the game was 'A Knife To The Heart' and the fact they are underground, inside an ancient vault where no-one can rescue them, I'd say she's dead... But that's just me...

yea, but who knows she might not be. But either way if its true about the dlc of lucy and clay, cant wait to see the content

D.I.D.
01-31-2012, 04:50 PM
You thought she was killed by greed. Turns out she was killed by sloth.


http://youtu.be/t5jw3T3Jy70

stefman6987
01-31-2012, 07:21 PM
Well, seeing how Clay (Subject 16) was talking to Desmond about her funeral inside the Animus, and the fact that at the end of ACB Desmond stabbed Lucy, and the final trophy/achievement for finishing the game was 'A Knife To The Heart' and the fact they are underground, inside an ancient vault where no-one can rescue them, I'd say she's dead... But that's just me...

yeah she's definitely dead, their is no doubt about that.

kenshijr
01-31-2012, 07:37 PM
You thought she was killed by greed. Turns out she was killed by sloth.


http://youtu.be/t5jw3T3Jy70

this has nothing to do with the thread, but it is hilarious :D. She suppose to be an assassin but shes crying like a lil baby, the world rests in her hands with chaos and she cries, no wonder they killed lucy

lukaszep
01-31-2012, 08:12 PM
@GLHS: I accpet what you're saying, but i'm still open to the possibility that she's still alive.

About the shroud thing, i think it works fully, or with better affect on a human who has TWCB blood. Not too sure though.

kenshijr
01-31-2012, 11:00 PM
@GLHS: I accpet what you're saying, but i'm still open to the possibility that she's still alive.

About the shroud thing, i think it works fully, or with better affect on a human who has TWCB blood. Not too sure though.

what the heck is a shroud? is TWCB, the ones who came before?

Toxotes47
01-31-2012, 11:01 PM
what the heck is a shroud? is TWCB, the ones who came before?
Yes and shroud is a POE.

kenshijr
01-31-2012, 11:07 PM
Yes and shroud is a POE.

and it has to do with something bringing people back to life?

LightRey
01-31-2012, 11:31 PM
and it has to do with something bringing people back to life?

Sort of. It's able to heal people and can sometimes bring them back from the dead if they died only recently (Jesus would be a prime example of that). However it does not always work. The Assassins tried to use it on Brutus and it failed.

Also, in the AC universe The Shroud of Turin is a forgery made by the Assassins.

kalo.yanis
02-01-2012, 01:30 AM
Aaand it can also backfire and kill you. :p

LightRey
02-01-2012, 01:32 AM
Aaand it can also backfire and kill you. :p

oh, and it can literally shroud you.

kenshijr
02-01-2012, 01:53 AM
so where was this first mention of this shroud? obviously not in the video games

SixKeys
02-01-2012, 02:02 AM
so where was this first mention of this shroud? obviously not in the video games

It was mentioned in one of Subject 16's glyph puzzles in AC2, actually. Most of the information we have of it comes from the Facebook game Project Legacy.

kenshijr
02-01-2012, 02:36 AM
It was mentioned in one of Subject 16's glyph puzzles in AC2, actually. Most of the information we have of it comes from the Facebook game Project Legacy.

ah thanks, now i have a good reason to go back to AC2 and check it out.

PurpleHaze1980
02-01-2012, 05:47 AM
I'm in two minds about the whole Lucy thing.

I've been saying for the past two games that I think she was actually a Templar and that something else off screen seems to be happening. Too many things didn't make sense or pointed to something strange going on.

1. The escape from the Abstergo lab was far too easy. Desmond holds the key to everything they want to know and they have poorly trained guards on duty? At this point (regardless of growing up learning to be an Assassin) Desmond has no skill and manages to take out security! That escape shouldn't have been cake.

2. All of the equipment the team (Lucy, Shaun and Rebecca) are using belongs to Abstergo. Considering the lengths Abstergo has gone to in reference to silencing people and preventing information being leaked, I'd assume that (A): these items (things like huge servers for example) would NOT be easy to walk in and out with, and (B): as high tech as Abstergo is, I'd expect some of that technology to be traceable the moment it is used (and I'd assume Rebecca would have to at least use it initially to hack any trace on it). If Lucy is a templar, it'd certainly make sense how she can easily procure such items without any questions (probably encouraged to use it so that Abstergo are getting sent everything as it happens).

3. Lucy is still carrying that Abstergo access pen (from the first AC game) right up until Brotherhood (I'm pretty sure I saw it on her desk in ACII as well), and at one point I even see her using the pen in Brotherhood...the light on it is still flashing which to me seems to indicate something is happening with it.

4. Her disappearance in Brotherhood was just too unexplained. People speculated that she had gone to the town but Desmond only ever leaves the Animus at night, and where would Lucy go in town at this time when there is a curfew and everything (even the gates to the town) are secured? The length of time she is gone is puzzling, and is never mentioned.

5. The place where she is making her phonecalls to William M. is never revealled...but I feel in my gut it was down under the fountain outside the villa walls (at the bottom of the steps)...right where the red footsteps lead....the developers deny the footsteps indicate anything underhanded and were a mistake left in for beta testers who kept getting lost, but the theory ties in with Lucy being a templar...

6. Rebecca is an expert programmer and hacker yet doesn't seem to actually realise at any point that anyone other than herself is accessing her emails (on a system that it is life or death that it remains secure). I'm sure such activity would be logged/flagged unless someone was making sure she didn't see this happening (like Lucy who also seems to know what she's doing on a computer).

7. Rebecca is supposed to be Lucy's best friend but didn't attend the burial but Shaun did...suspicious since Shaun wasn't close to Lucy as far as we could tell. Even if Rebecca was needed to keep an eye on Animus functions while Desmond is comatose, surely William M. (who obviously knows what he's doing) could have kept an eye on things so she could be there). To me, this was done far too quickly - the whole burial and mention of it...leading me to think possibly she didn't die at all. Is Shaun in on it? Possibly...don't really know yet.

8. William M. was sending Shaun information that he wasn't sending to Lucy (in emails he sends to Shaun he talks of Assassin Safehouses and what not to tell the rest of the team...surely Lucy should have been sent this information since she was lead of the team? (Indicates he suspected/knew she might be working for Vidic?)

9. Why is Desmond pushed by Juno into forcing the hidden blade into Lucy's womb (good chance of survival depending where the blade hit) as opposed to heart or throat? I had been theorizing that Lucy might be pregnant with Desmond's child (there was a small window of opportunity for this to occur...reading the emails you can find out Shaun and Rebecca took the same night off at one point) or that it was to prevent the possibility of it. Not so sure anymore but at the time it was a popular theory.

10. If Lucy was trained by William M. to become an Assassin (wasn't it established this was when she was much much younger?) then wouldn't she and Desmond have crossed paths long before?

11. Any other references to the mysterious van (mentioned originally in emails) are never made.

Ah, I dunno. I don't have the encyclopedia, I never read the comics so I can only go by what happens in the games. All this stuff makes me want to play the games again and again to learn more.

GLHS
02-01-2012, 09:30 AM
Most of that is indeed true, since those were the same reasons that I had thought she was a Templar also. Although the baby thing....just...no. There may have been an opportunity, but their relationship was not that far developed yet and it's made quite clear that the reason for killing her is that she was an imminent threat to both Desmond and the Assassins. Rebecca not staying behind at Lucy's funeral I thought was quite obvious as well. She's the programmer and the one they look to to run the Animus. If anything happened to Desmond while in it in his coma, she would have to be there to try and fix the problem. Shaun staying behind was the least risky and they were under an immense amount of pressure and stress in the following moments after Lucy's death and the retrieval of the Apple. They had to act fast. This is from the wiki: " Lucy was buried shortly thereafter in a small cemetery near Rome. Shaun was the only one of her team to attend the funeral, as William Miles (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/William_Miles) had already transported Desmond and Rebecca to New York City (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/New_York_City) to continue Desmond's Animus sessions, who was still in a comatosed state." And it seems pretty clear that it was William's decision and that Rebecca was needed to be wherever Desmond was.

There is no reason, conclusion, deduction, or even the slightest hint from the games, other sites, or even the developers themselves that she might still be alive or might come back. These theories seem much more to me like people reading way too far into things and coming up with ridiculous plot twists that will never happen. It really should rest now.

Also, about the shroud. It's made mention of quite a few times in AC2 and Project Legacy, as well as all of the other POE. I suggest anybody lacking of information on these subjects should refer to the POE part of the wiki. http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Pieces_of_Eden There are 6 Apples, a shroud, a sword, a staff, possible Crystal Skulls, an the Ankh. We may need to know quite a bit about all of them come AC3.

EscoBlades
02-01-2012, 12:23 PM
Most of that is indeed true, since those were the same reasons that I had thought she was a Templar also. Although the baby thing....just...no. There may have been an opportunity, but their relationship was not that far developed yet and it's made quite clear that the reason for killing her is that she was an imminent threat to both Desmond and the Assassins. Rebecca not staying behind at Lucy's funeral I thought was quite obvious as well. She's the programmer and the one they look to to run the Animus. If anything happened to Desmond while in it in his coma, she would have to be there to try and fix the problem. Shaun staying behind was the least risky and they were under an immense amount of pressure and stress in the following moments after Lucy's death and the retrieval of the Apple. They had to act fast. This is from the wiki: " Lucy was buried shortly thereafter in a small cemetery near Rome. Shaun was the only one of her team to attend the funeral, as William Miles (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/William_Miles) had already transported Desmond and Rebecca to New York City (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/New_York_City) to continue Desmond's Animus sessions, who was still in a comatosed state." And it seems pretty clear that it was William's decision and that Rebecca was needed to be wherever Desmond was.

There is no reason, conclusion, deduction, or even the slightest hint from the games, other sites, or even the developers themselves that she might still be alive or might come back. These theories seem much more to me like people reading way too far into things and coming up with ridiculous plot twists that will never happen. It really should rest now.

Also, about the shroud. It's made mention of quite a few times in AC2 and Project Legacy, as well as all of the other POE. I suggest anybody lacking of information on these subjects should refer to the POE part of the wiki. http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Pieces_of_Eden There are 6 Apples, a shroud, a sword, a staff, possible Crystal Skulls, an the Ankh. We may need to know quite a bit about all of them come AC3.

Where is the LOVE b-u-t-ton on the forums? That post needs one!

GLHS
02-01-2012, 03:06 PM
Lol thank you, EscoBlades :D

LightRey
02-01-2012, 04:12 PM
I agree with Escoblades. That is an excellent post. I am waiting for the coming DLC to form a final opinion of Lucy. I have carefully avoided any details of the leak.

lukaszep
02-01-2012, 04:26 PM
Most of that is indeed true, since those were the same reasons that I had thought she was a Templar also. Although the baby thing....just...no. There may have been an opportunity, but their relationship was not that far developed yet and it's made quite clear that the reason for killing her is that she was an imminent threat to both Desmond and the Assassins. Rebecca not staying behind at Lucy's funeral I thought was quite obvious as well. She's the programmer and the one they look to to run the Animus. If anything happened to Desmond while in it in his coma, she would have to be there to try and fix the problem. Shaun staying behind was the least risky and they were under an immense amount of pressure and stress in the following moments after Lucy's death and the retrieval of the Apple. They had to act fast. This is from the wiki: " Lucy was buried shortly thereafter in a small cemetery near Rome. Shaun was the only one of her team to attend the funeral, as William Miles (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/William_Miles) had already transported Desmond and Rebecca to New York City (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/New_York_City) to continue Desmond's Animus sessions, who was still in a comatosed state." And it seems pretty clear that it was William's decision and that Rebecca was needed to be wherever Desmond was.

There is no reason, conclusion, deduction, or even the slightest hint from the games, other sites, or even the developers themselves that she might still be alive or might come back. These theories seem much more to me like people reading way too far into things and coming up with ridiculous plot twists that will never happen. It really should rest now.



I'm not reading too much into anything...Neither am i coming up with theories. I'm just bearing in mind that Nothing is true, everything is permitted ;)

LightRey
02-01-2012, 04:32 PM
I'm not reading too much into anything...Neither am i coming up with theories. I'm just bearing in mind that Nothing is true, everything is permitted ;)

You misunderstand the true meaning of the phrase, my child.

kenshijr
02-01-2012, 04:33 PM
So far i like what people having been sayin on this post, coming with different thoughts, ideas and all. Thats why i posted this thread was too see what fans thought. Now for all you knowledgeable gurus out there that keep referring to the wiki, thats cool i got no problem with that. But we cant just confide in that. that what the wiki says is final. Ubisoft can do whatever they want, they can change it. but i appreciate everyones post, i really do. Ive learn some things.

One thing that does get me is, when shaun and rebecca are talking about Lucy's funeral is why didnt they show it on a cutscene. Normally in a Game not just AC, something this important to a franchise they would have a cutscene, why did Ubi choose to do it they way they did? just some food for thought

LightRey
02-01-2012, 04:35 PM
So far i like what people having been sayin on this post, coming with different thoughts, ideas and all. Thats why i posted this thread was too see what fans thought. Now for all you knowledgeable gurus out there that keep referring to the wiki, thats cool i got no problem with that. But we cant just confide in that. that what the wiki says is final. Ubisoft can do whatever they want, they can change it. but i appreciate everyones post, i really do. Ive learn some things.

One thing that does get me is, when shaun and rebecca are talking about Lucy's funeral is why didnt they show it on a cutscene. Normally in a Game not just AC, something this important to a franchise they would have a cutscene, why did Ubi choose to do it they way they did? just some food for thought

Actually, they can't really change it. The modern-day part of the story has been completely thought out from the very beginning. Though technically they could decide to change it, it is unlikely that they will make that decision.

kenshijr
02-01-2012, 04:43 PM
Actually, they can't really change it. The modern-day part of the story has been completely thought out from the very beginning. Though technically they could decide to change it, it is unlikely that they will make that decision.

well it make sense, but i will make my final decision about lucy when either dlc is released, a cutscene or some viable information besides the wiki but meaning in the games

GLHS
02-01-2012, 04:48 PM
well it make sense, but i will make my final decision about lucy when either dlc is released, a cutscene or some viable information besides the wiki but meaning in the games

So, basically, what you're saying is even though you appreciate what everybody's said, you won't 100%, without a doubt in your mind, believe that she is dead without the game actually showing you that she is?

lukaszep
02-01-2012, 05:52 PM
Why do you find it so difficult to accept that not everyone believes she's dead? People are allowed their own opinions.

@Lightrey, please explain to me your correct understanding of the phrase. Without quoting the wiki.

kenshijr
02-01-2012, 06:27 PM
Why do you find it so difficult to accept that not everyone believes she's dead? People are allowed their own opinions.

@Lightrey, please explain to me your correct understanding of the phrase. Without quoting the wiki.

thank you lukaszep:cool:

@GLHS, yes i dont believe it 100% until it has be shown, and if they come with dlc for it, then awesome until that time comes, everyone can express their opinions or thoughts on the subject freely!!

D.I.D.
02-01-2012, 06:40 PM
thank you lukaszep:cool:

@GLHS, yes i dont believe it 100% until it has be shown, and if they come with dlc for it, then awesome until that time comes, everyone can express their opinions or thoughts on the subject freely!!

But if you'd been shown it in a cut scene, why would you believe it any more than you do now? It could still be a trick of some kind. For the purposes of the story, and what the characters are shown to believe, she's dead.

kenshijr
02-01-2012, 06:44 PM
well will see, im not here to argue but i just want to know and see it. And want to see what others think, not everyone think shes dead

lukaszep
02-01-2012, 08:36 PM
But if you'd been shown it in a cut scene, why would you believe it any more than you do now? It could still be a trick of some kind. For the purposes of the story, and what the characters are shown to believe, she's dead.

That's what most of us have been saying, and we agree with that.

dxsxhxcx
02-01-2012, 09:01 PM
why would they lie about her being dead?! What good this would make to Desmond or any other person of the team?!

LightRey
02-01-2012, 09:44 PM
Why do you find it so difficult to accept that not everyone believes she's dead? People are allowed their own opinions.

@Lightrey, please explain to me your correct understanding of the phrase. Without quoting the wiki.

It is referring to the workings of society and has little to do with assuming if someone is dead or not. It is not in any way referring to the truthfulness of a random statement, such as "Lucy is dead".

"Nothing is true" is referring to how societies are founded on common beliefs and that those beliefs are not absolute truths (they are no laws of nature) and because they are not "true" in that way, they are not a constant, which makes the basis of these societies fragile.
"Everything is permitted" is referring to the fact that, regardless of the existence of laws, people can in the end do whatever they want and those actions have their consequences and so their actions should be judged on that (instead). As Alta´r puts it quite well: "Laws should arise not from divinity, but reason".

kenshijr
02-01-2012, 10:22 PM
shes not dead i tell you haha:cool:

LightRey
02-01-2012, 10:30 PM
shes not dead i tell you haha:cool:

I don't even understand why you believe that.

kenshijr
02-01-2012, 10:37 PM
I don't even understand why you believe that.

as i said before for the 100th time, i just want to see a cutscene, a dlc something explaining the things that happen, something visual. Then when it happens it has been said and done and this thread will have no point but for now to be continued...

LightRey
02-01-2012, 10:45 PM
as i said before for the 100th time, i just want to see a cutscene, a dlc something explaining the things that happen, something visual. Then when it happens it has been said and done and this thread will have no point but for now to be continued...

Yes, I understand that, but not only did you see a cutscene with her being dead, there are absolutely no clues suggesting that she is alive. I don't see how not seeing a cutscene of it is any reason to believe in the alternative.

kenshijr
02-01-2012, 10:50 PM
Yes, I understand that, but not only did you see a cutscene with her being dead, there are absolutely no clues suggesting that she is alive. I don't see how not seeing a cutscene of it is any reason to believe in the alternative.

at the end of brotherhood we did not know lucy was dead, we just know she was stabbed thats it. at the beginning of ACR clay reminds desmond then somewhere in the middle of the game we hear the convesation of shaun and rebecca, we heard not saw. In an earlier post i had said why is it that Ubisoft didnt have a cutscene to this so called "burial" why did we just hear it, ubisoft could of shown a cutscene to the conversation, something different. So as i said we heard not saw

Animuses
02-02-2012, 05:27 AM
Kristen Bell wanting too much money = The death of Lucy.

Problem solved. You're welcome.:)

kenshijr
02-02-2012, 05:36 AM
Kristen Bell wanting too much money = The death of Lucy.

Problem solved. You're welcome.:)

not enough proof, but funny

LightRey
02-02-2012, 01:33 PM
at the end of brotherhood we did not know lucy was dead, we just know she was stabbed thats it. at the beginning of ACR clay reminds desmond then somewhere in the middle of the game we hear the convesation of shaun and rebecca, we heard not saw. In an earlier post i had said why is it that Ubisoft didnt have a cutscene to this so called "burial" why did we just hear it, ubisoft could of shown a cutscene to the conversation, something different. So as i said we heard not saw

Generally after getting stabbed in the abdomen, you die. There's a lot in there that, if sliced open, will result in death, especially if you don't get immediate medical attention. Furthermore I think it would have been rather weird story-wise if she was stabbed like that, but survived.

Eh, no they really wouldn't have shown a cutscene. Desmond was in a coma. There was only one point in the game where we got to see the outside world with him being in a coma and that was at the introduction.

kenshijr
02-02-2012, 02:08 PM
Generally after getting stabbed in the abdomen, you die. There's a lot in there that, if sliced open, will result in death, especially if you don't get immediate medical attention. Furthermore I think it would have been rather weird story-wise if she was stabbed like that, but survived.

Eh, no they really wouldn't have shown a cutscene. Desmond was in a coma. There was only one point in the game where we got to see the outside world with him being in a coma and that was at the introduction.

In AC2 ezio gets stabbed in the abdomen twice, once in sequence 12 after killing your target and then with Rodrigo Borgia in 14. Ezio still somehow managed to survive. But even then the story itself is weird, amazing but weird cause the fiction.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 02:54 PM
In AC2 ezio gets stabbed in the abdomen twice, once in sequence 12 after killing your target and then with Rodrigo Borgia in 14. Ezio still somehow managed to survive. But even then the story itself is weird, amazing but weird cause the fiction.

He got medical attention the first time and I really don't get that he was even able to walk the second time. It was really weird. I suspect his armor, the apple and/or the staff had something to do with it but he shouldn't even have been able to stand.

Regardess, all your reasons are merely excuses to claim that it's possible she's alive. That is not enough reason to believe it to be so, especially since there are so many indications that strongly suggest the alternative.

stefman6987
02-02-2012, 03:02 PM
I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that lucy is dead. Guys the evidence is there, subject 16 and juno said it, and in acr they say she had a funeral!!! the dlc leak even proved that she was a traitor, i know not alot of use have heard it but, your gonna have to accept it, she's dead. I get why no one wants to believe it, but i'm sure the dlc that was shown in the leaked audio rip will really prove everything to us... just gonna have to wait and see.. but by saying that it should come out this month, seeing as both packs came out in dec and jan..

GLHS
02-02-2012, 05:38 PM
But if you'd been shown it in a cut scene, why would you believe it any more than you do now? It could still be a trick of some kind. For the purposes of the story, and what the characters are shown to believe, she's dead.

Omg thank you. That's been my point this whole time. It's a mindset that is causing people to believe in the possibility of her still being alive, not the lack of proof. Now that I think about it, one of the lines from the leaked audio has a preacher or whatever reciting the "though I walk through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil" thing from the bible and it might be being read at her funeral. So we might get to see it. But then again, as I just said, it's a mindset. People could easily just say "oh well we didn't see her body in the casket, so maybe she's not in there." If they see the body they might say "oh maybe that's a Templar trick and that's a fake" or whatever. It's a never ending circle of theories and ideas, no matter how much proof they see.

And @ lukaszep and kenshijr: It's not necessarily that it's difficult for me to believe that she might still be alive, or difficult for me to accept that people think that. Of course, you are allowed to have ideas, and I guess in most other situations, it wouldn't be that implausible. But in this situation, with this story, with the proof we have from the games and developers themselves, I highly doubt any such situation will happen and that the developers would allow such a plot twist at this point in the story. It makes absolutely no sense and there would be absolutely no purpose for it that would benefit the story or the players.

Oh, and also @ LightRey: You're right about Desmond being in a coma and the outside world. I meant to say something to that effect also, but you were a little off. As you've said and we all should know, the reason why none of us see a cutscene, and this is done intentionally, is b/c the game is being seen from Desmond's point of view and he's in a coma, so we barely see the outside world. That's exactly why we just hear everything and only hear little snippets of everybody's dialogue. But the intro is really just flashbacks of him in the other games, catching everybody up on the story. The only time we actually see him or anybody outside of the Animus is at the very end when he wakes up. Now that I think about it, that was a very smart decision on Ubisoft's part. So to everybody wanting a cutscene and proof of her death: That's why we don't see anything. It's done on purpose. Not to hide anything, but to keep us within Desmond's point of view. It would be unrealistic to expect him to see anything that was going on.

kenshijr
02-02-2012, 05:57 PM
He got medical attention the first time and I really don't get that he was even able to walk the second time. It was really weird. I suspect his armor, the apple and/or the staff had something to do with it but he shouldn't even have been able to stand.

Regardess, all your reasons are merely excuses to claim that it's possible she's alive. That is not enough reason to believe it to be so, especially since there are so many indications that strongly suggest the alternative.

Well then also in ACB ezio get shot at the beginning when his uncle mario dies, i mean he has take alot of injuries not to die. yea hes the protagonist but lucy might or might not be dead. and one last more, Altair also gets stabbed in the abdomen in the beginning of AC for being rebellious to the creed. im just sayin thats all.......maybe a slight chance i dont know



Omg thank you. That's been my point this whole time. It's a mindset that is causing people to believe in the possibility of her still being alive, not the lack of proof. Now that I think about it, one of the lines from the leaked audio has a preacher or whatever reciting the "though I walk through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil" thing from the bible and it might be being read at her funeral. So we might get to see it. But then again, as I just said, it's a mindset. People could easily just say "oh well we didn't see her body in the casket, so maybe she's not in there." If they see the body they might say "oh maybe that's a Templar trick and that's a fake" or whatever. It's a never ending circle of theories and ideas, no matter how much proof they see.

And @ lukaszep and kenshijr: It's not necessarily that it's difficult for me to believe that she might still be alive, or difficult for me to accept that people think that. Of course, you are allowed to have ideas, and I guess in most other situations, it wouldn't be that implausible. But in this situation, with this story, with the proof we have from the games and developers themselves, I highly doubt any such situation will happen and that the developers would allow such a plot twist at this point in the story. It makes absolutely no sense and there would be absolutely no purpose for it that would benefit the story or the players.

Oh, and also @ LightRey: You're right about Desmond being in a coma and the outside world. I meant to say something to that effect also, but you were a little off. As you've said and we all should know, the reason why none of us see a cutscene, and this is done intentionally, is b/c the game is being seen from Desmond's point of view and he's in a coma, so we barely see the outside world. That's exactly why we just hear everything and only hear little snippets of everybody's dialogue. But the intro is really just flashbacks of him in the other games, catching everybody up on the story. The only time we actually see him or anybody outside of the Animus is at the very end when he wakes up. Now that I think about it, that was a very smart decision on Ubisoft's part. So to everybody wanting a cutscene and proof of her death: That's why we don't see anything. It's done on purpose. Not to hide anything, but to keep us within Desmond's point of view. It would be unrealistic to expect him to see anything that was going on.

I like what you said here, but once again im not here to argue, cause we keep going back and forth, so ima say this for the final time, i will make up my final thoughts and decision on Lucy when and if it comes out whether thru gameplay, dlc, a cutscene, AC3 or ubisoft announcing it

GLHS
02-02-2012, 06:04 PM
Well then also in ACB ezio get shot at the beginning when his uncle mario dies, i mean he has take alot of injuries not to die. yea hes the protagonist but lucy might or might not be dead. and one last more, Altair also gets stabbed in the abdomen in the beginning of AC for being rebellious to the creed. im just sayin thats all.......maybe a slight chance i dont know




I like what you said here, but once again im not here to argue, cause we keep going back and forth, so ima say this for the final time, i will make up my final thoughts and decision on Lucy when and if it comes out whether thru gameplay, dlc, a cutscene, AC3 or ubisoft announcing it

Ok, but if the DLC comes out and you're still not satisfied, unless there's some big clue as to her survival or something, I'll have to give up hope on you lol.

kenshijr
02-02-2012, 06:14 PM
Ok, but if the DLC comes out and you're still not satisfied, unless there's some big clue as to her survival or something, I'll have to give up hope on you lol.

haha fair enough, but yea if the dlc comes out and it happens as you said ill probably be like "nooooo, why lucy, why?"lol

pacmanate
02-02-2012, 06:22 PM
I think its pretty obvious that Lucy is dead. Come on guys she was buried!

Also, if she does come back to life then thats just really weird and would kinda annoy me. When she died I was like "****!" but I wasnt really attached to her that much, I didnt feel like there was a massive connection between the gamer and lucy. Same if like Shaun died, I would still have the same reaction.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 06:23 PM
Well then also in ACB ezio get shot at the beginning when his uncle mario dies, i mean he has take alot of injuries not to die. yea hes the protagonist but lucy might or might not be dead. and one last more, Altair also gets stabbed in the abdomen in the beginning of AC for being rebellious to the creed. im just sayin thats all.......maybe a slight chance i dont know




I like what you said here, but once again im not here to argue, cause we keep going back and forth, so ima say this for the final time, i will make up my final thoughts and decision on Lucy when and if it comes out whether thru gameplay, dlc, a cutscene, AC3 or ubisoft announcing it

Alta´r getting stabbed was an illusion, most likely created by the apple. As Al Mualim explains to Alta´r: "you saw what I wanted you to see".

kenshijr
02-02-2012, 06:42 PM
Alta´r getting stabbed was an illusion, most likely created by the apple. As Al Mualim explains to Alta´r: "you saw what I wanted you to see".

yea i remember him saying, just wasnt a 100% positive in relation with that, but my question where could he have gotten the apple, we know that at the end Al mualim,had it or do you mean to tell me he had it this whole time?

stefman6987
02-02-2012, 06:47 PM
yea i remember him saying, just wasnt a 100% positive in relation with that, but my question where could he have gotten the apple, we know that at the end Al mualim,had it or do you mean to tell me he had it this whole time?

funny that i was just playing ac1 aha, they get him the treasure which i'm pretty sure is the apple at the start of the game. It could have been an illusion that she was dead.. but unfortunately it was said by the others aswell so... i don't think she's alive, but who knows.. it would be like an illusion inside an illusion!!! coincidence.. i think not!

GLHS
02-02-2012, 06:48 PM
They got it at the beginning of the game.......

kenshijr
02-02-2012, 07:19 PM
They got it at the beginning of the game.......
hey give me something interesting to read in the AC wiki

GLHS
02-02-2012, 07:27 PM
Lol ok. http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin's_Creed

That's the whole page on the first game. The part about when they go to Solomon's Temple and retrieve and eventually bring back the Apple is towards the middle. That should explain everything.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 07:39 PM
yea i remember him saying, just wasnt a 100% positive in relation with that, but my question where could he have gotten the apple, we know that at the end Al mualim,had it or do you mean to tell me he had it this whole time?

You're kidding right?

kenshijr
02-02-2012, 07:43 PM
You're kidding right?

when i first beat the game I really didnt much understand it, i was captivated by everything else. so no i wasnt but it has been cleared to me now thanks

LightRey
02-02-2012, 07:54 PM
when i first beat the game I really didnt much understand it, i was captivated by everything else. so no i wasnt but it has been cleared to me now thanks

Really? I always thought it was common knowledge.

lukaszep
02-02-2012, 08:09 PM
I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that lucy is dead. Guys the evidence is there, subject 16 and juno said it, and in acr they say she had a funeral!!! the dlc leak even proved that she was a traitor, i know not alot of use have heard it but, your gonna have to accept it, she's dead. I get why no one wants to believe it, but i'm sure the dlc that was shown in the leaked audio rip will really prove everything to us... just gonna have to wait and see.. but by saying that it should come out this month, seeing as both packs came out in dec and jan..

Dude, what the hell? I can't believe the amount of members saying that AC:B story is still spoilers (even though generally it isn't/shouldn't be considered spoilers) and then you've just spoiled story that hasn't even been released yet. If you don't understand what part i'm talking about, re-read your post and edit it out.

Ridiculous.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 08:20 PM
Dude, what the hell? I can't believe the amount of members saying that AC:B story is still spoilers (even though generally it isn't/shouldn't be considered spoilers) and then you've just spoiled story that hasn't even been released yet. If you don't understand what part i'm talking about, re-read your post and edit it out.

Ridiculous.

To be fair this entire thread should have been labeled with a [SPOILER!] tag from the very beginning. It was basically asking to discuss this information.

kenshijr
02-02-2012, 10:57 PM
dang, i just read the Assasins Creed Wiki on Lucy, man i guess she is dead, it was interesting tho, so now im left with why kill the character? there was nothing on her of being a traitor also

lukaszep
02-02-2012, 11:00 PM
But surely information from leaked DLC should not be discussed or at least labelled as spoilers in a post. I had no idea (SPOILERS) she was a traitor.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 11:07 PM
But surely information from leaked DLC should not be discussed or at least labelled as spoilers in a post. I had no idea (SPOILERS) she was a traitor.

Of course, but it's somewhat understandable that it happened.

kenshijr
02-02-2012, 11:12 PM
Of course, but it's somewhat understandable that it happened.

other than this suppose audio leak, why do you say she is?

LightRey
02-02-2012, 11:17 PM
other than this suppose audio leak, why do you say she is?

I was referring to the fact that the mistake was made of not using SPOILER tags.

I don't really find the fact that she was [SPOILER!]a traitor[END SPOILER] a very understandable story development. In fact, I find it rather cliche.

kenshijr
02-02-2012, 11:19 PM
I was referring to the fact that the mistake was made of not using SPOILER tags.

I don't really find the fact that she was [SPOILER!]a traitor[END SPOILER] a very understandable story development. In fact, I find it rather cliche.

so who are you arguing with about this and why

LightRey
02-02-2012, 11:32 PM
so who are you arguing with about this and why

lukaszep, because he was annoyed by it and I was putting it in perspective a little.

naran6142
02-02-2012, 11:51 PM
if lucy was a templar that would really be the most pointless story development ever

even after hearing the leaked stuff(i didn't listen to all of it) i just dont believe that she is. it a really bad idea IMO

LightRey
02-02-2012, 11:55 PM
if lucy was a templar that would really be the most pointless story development ever

even after hearing the leaked stuff(i didn't listen to all of it) i just dont believe that she is. it a really bad idea IMO

I agree. I hope that at the very least the situation was a little more complicated than it seems to be.

kenshijr
02-03-2012, 07:35 AM
I agree. I hope that at the very least the situation was a little more complicated than it seems to be.

yea i hope so, because i want to know about what her and William miles spoke about and their meetings as well with some of those weird unexplained emails

LightRey
02-03-2012, 12:10 PM
yea i hope so, because i want to know about what her and William miles spoke about and their meetings as well with some of those weird unexplained emails

Well I think the emails are what they seemed to be. Remember, [SPOILERS!!!] Lucy was a double agent, so the she was still pretending to be an agent for the Assassins [END SPOILER].

Gil_217
02-03-2012, 02:21 PM
Most of that is indeed true, since those were the same reasons that I had thought she was a Templar also. Although the baby thing....just...no. There may have been an opportunity, but their relationship was not that far developed yet and it's made quite clear that the reason for killing her is that she was an imminent threat to both Desmond and the Assassins. Rebecca not staying behind at Lucy's funeral I thought was quite obvious as well. She's the programmer and the one they look to to run the Animus. If anything happened to Desmond while in it in his coma, she would have to be there to try and fix the problem. Shaun staying behind was the least risky and they were under an immense amount of pressure and stress in the following moments after Lucy's death and the retrieval of the Apple. They had to act fast. This is from the wiki: " Lucy was buried shortly thereafter in a small cemetery near Rome. Shaun was the only one of her team to attend the funeral, as William Miles (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/William_Miles) had already transported Desmond and Rebecca to New York City (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/New_York_City) to continue Desmond's Animus sessions, who was still in a comatosed state." And it seems pretty clear that it was William's decision and that Rebecca was needed to be wherever Desmond was.

There is no reason, conclusion, deduction, or even the slightest hint from the games, other sites, or even the developers themselves that she might still be alive or might come back. These theories seem much more to me like people reading way too far into things and coming up with ridiculous plot twists that will never happen. It really should rest now.

Also, about the shroud. It's made mention of quite a few times in AC2 and Project Legacy, as well as all of the other POE. I suggest anybody lacking of information on these subjects should refer to the POE part of the wiki. http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Pieces_of_Eden There are 6 Apples, a shroud, a sword, a staff, possible Crystal Skulls, an the Ankh. We may need to know quite a bit about all of them come AC3.

Do you even realize that maybe, just maybe, Ubisoft wants us to believe that she's dead, by giving us many hints suggesting her death, just to show her alive and well in Assassin's Creed III. The possibility of Lucy being alive is not even ridiculous at this point just like some people here are trying to show. We saw in AC: Brotherhood Desmond stabbing Lucy, but that does not automatically mean that she died, she could have survived or, just like Al Mualim did with Altair, maybe it was an illusion created just to make Desmond believe that she died, I don't know 100 % why, but it's a possibility as far as I'm concerned.
Then, in AC: Revelations we heard about Lucy's death and funeral, but remember that we only heard about this when Desmond was in a coma, in the Animus, in the Black Room, he could be dreaming and imagining things, I believe that you are aware that people who are in a coma dream like us, and because they can't just woke up, they can't differentiate reality from fantasy, therefore they believe, in their minds, that the information provided in the dreams is the truth.

I'm not saying all of this just because I want to see Lucy back, because she was a very interesting character, I'm just trying to see all of the possibilities that we have here, and this is clearly one, at least for me of course.

GLHS
02-03-2012, 04:07 PM
No, I don't. Mainly b/c of the leaked audio of the DLC.It says very specifically that she was working for Vidic and Abstergo, starting sometime after she started working there. Conversations between her and Vidic where he specifies what she is to do, how she is to do it, and how she is to act. It also says that she was supposed to act upset when their hideout got attack and she was supposed to get close to Desmond. The developers have said that a big question from the end of AC:B was "Is she really dead?" and that in Revelations they answered that. They also said that now their main focus on that subject is answering WHY she was killed, and that they will be answering that soon. So no. I do not believe they lied to make us think she was dead and don't believe that her death was an illusion or anything of the kind. I am confident that she is dead and she is dead b/c she was an imminent threat to TWCB's plan. It's not like somebody just decided to kill her. These are advanced beings that know what needs to be done and know a hell of a lot more than we do. I highly doubt they would just decide she was to die and then go "oops! Looks like we messed up. Our bad." This is not to say that by the end of the story, she'll still be dead. There's always a possibility that they could weave the shroud bringing her back to life or something else into the story. I highly doubt this, but it's possible. But at this particular moment in the story, with all of the evidence we have from the game and the developers, she is, in fact dead.

I'm seriously about done commenting to any of you about this subject anymore, b/c it seems that nobody listens. You all read, but you just can't accept it and can't move on with it. I'm sorry, but I seem to just be saying the same exact things over and over again, and it's starting to become annoying. She's dead. End of story. Move on. If she is to come back at some point in time, then she is to come back. But we will all find out with any further developments from DLC and/or in AC3.

Gil_217
02-03-2012, 04:32 PM
No, I don't. Mainly b/c of the leaked audio of the DLC.It says very specifically that she was working for Vidic and Abstergo, starting sometime after she started working there. Conversations between her and Vidic where he specifies what she is to do, how she is to do it, and how she is to act. It also says that she was supposed to act upset when their hideout got attack and she was supposed to get close to Desmond. The developers have said that a big question from the end of AC:B was "Is she really dead?" and that in Revelations they answered that. They also said that now their main focus on that subject is answering WHY she was killed, and that they will be answering that soon. So no. I do not believe they lied to make us think she was dead and don't believe that her death was an illusion or anything of the kind. I am confident that she is dead and she is dead b/c she was an imminent threat to TWCB's plan. It's not like somebody just decided to kill her. These are advanced beings that know what needs to be done and know a hell of a lot more than we do. I highly doubt they would just decide she was to die and then go "oops! Looks like we messed up. Our bad." This is not to say that by the end of the story, she'll still be dead. There's always a possibility that they could weave the shroud bringing her back to life or something else into the story. I highly doubt this, but it's possible. But at this particular moment in the story, with all of the evidence we have from the game and the developers, she is, in fact dead.

I'm seriously about done commenting to any of you about this subject anymore, b/c it seems that nobody listens. You all read, but you just can't accept it and can't move on with it. I'm sorry, but I seem to just be saying the same exact things over and over again, and it's starting to become annoying. She's dead. End of story. Move on. If she is to come back at some point in time, then she is to come back. But we will all find out with any further developments from DLC and/or in AC3.

Are you aware that you are doing the exact same thing?? I agree with you, there are people here who just can't accept the fact that Lucy is dead AND there are people here, like yourself, that can't accept that Lucy can totally be alive, therefore not accepting possible scenarios of Lucy being alive, just like the one that I explained before. It's funny actually.

kenshijr
02-03-2012, 04:36 PM
No, I don't. Mainly b/c of the leaked audio of the DLC.It says very specifically that she was working for Vidic and Abstergo, starting sometime after she started working there. Conversations between her and Vidic where he specifies what she is to do, how she is to do it, and how she is to act. It also says that she was supposed to act upset when their hideout got attack and she was supposed to get close to Desmond. The developers have said that a big question from the end of AC:B was "Is she really dead?" and that in Revelations they answered that. They also said that now their main focus on that subject is answering WHY she was killed, and that they will be answering that soon. So no. I do not believe they lied to make us think she was dead and don't believe that her death was an illusion or anything of the kind. I am confident that she is dead and she is dead b/c she was an imminent threat to TWCB's plan. It's not like somebody just decided to kill her. These are advanced beings that know what needs to be done and know a hell of a lot more than we do. I highly doubt they would just decide she was to die and then go "oops! Looks like we messed up. Our bad." This is not to say that by the end of the story, she'll still be dead. There's always a possibility that they could weave the shroud bringing her back to life or something else into the story. I highly doubt this, but it's possible. But at this particular moment in the story, with all of the evidence we have from the game and the developers, she is, in fact dead.

I'm seriously about done commenting to any of you about this subject anymore, b/c it seems that nobody listens. You all read, but you just can't accept it and can't move on with it. I'm sorry, but I seem to just be saying the same exact things over and over again, and it's starting to become annoying. She's dead. End of story. Move on. If she is to come back at some point in time, then she is to come back. But we will all find out with any further developments from DLC and/or in AC3.

Thats why i told you that one time we were going back and forth, just let people decide and think for themselves. when this dlc is released, and it explains things. then as i said earlier this thread will have no point because everything will be explained

LightRey
02-03-2012, 04:36 PM
Are you aware that you are doing the exact same thing?? I agree with you, there are people here who just can't accept the fact that Lucy is dead AND there are people here, like yourself, that can't accept that Lucy can totally be alive, therefore not accepting possible scenarios of Lucy being alive, just like the one that I explained before. It's funny actually.

You do realize just how unlikely those proposed scenarios are, don't you?

kenshijr
02-03-2012, 04:38 PM
You do realize just how unlikely those proposed scenarios are, don't you?

explain why?

LightRey
02-03-2012, 04:58 PM
explain why?

SPOILERS AHEAD

Well let's see. We have:

-Lucy was a double agent working for the Templars.
-Lucy was stabbed in the abdomen.
-Lucy was reported to have died and was buried in Italy.
-Lucy's death was intentionally caused by TWCB.

If she was still alive we'd have the following problems:
- Why let her live and then lie about her death to Rebecca?
- Why stab her like that, make her a traitor, but let her live in the story? What's the point? What would be her function?
- Again, why lie to Rebecca?
- Why would TWCB want to have her seriously incapacitated like that or, if they did want her dead, how could a race that can predict the answers Desmond gives to questions they ask him thousands of years before and still fail at killing Lucy?
- Finally, how do any of the possible excuses for these problems make for a good story?

kenshijr
02-03-2012, 05:05 PM
SPOILERS AHEAD

Well let's see. We have:

-Lucy was a double agent working for the Templars.
-Lucy was stabbed in the abdomen.
-Lucy was reported to have died and was buried in Italy.
-Lucy's death was intentionally caused by TWCB.

If she was still alive we'd have the following problems:
- Why let her live and then lie about her death to Rebecca?
- Why stab her like that, make her a traitor, but let her live in the story? What's the point? What would be her function?
- Again, why lie to Rebecca?
- Why would TWCB want to have her seriously incapacitated like that or, if they did want her dead, how could a race that can predict the answers Desmond gives to questions they ask him thousands of years before and still fail at killing Lucy?
- Finally, how do any of the possible excuses for these problems make for a good story?

thats funny that you keep putting spoilers lol. ok i was just checking tho

LightRey
02-03-2012, 05:07 PM
thats funny that you keep putting spoilers lol. ok i was just checking tho

Just making sure nobody else has that part of the story spoiled for them. It's quite sensitive information.

Gil_217
02-03-2012, 05:13 PM
You do realize just how unlikely those proposed scenarios are, don't you?

I'm just going to utilize one of the examples that I used in my first post in this thread regarding Desmond hearing about Lucy's death and funeral in AC: Revelations. Like I said, Desmond (and we) only heard about her supposed death and funeral when he was in a coma, in the Animus and in the Black Room,so, he wasn't in a normal state. Like I said in that post, people who are in coma dream like us, but they can't wake up, and therefore they can't differentiate reality from the fantasy of their dreams, therefore they think reality and fact is what their dreams shows them. Desmond could have dreamed or imagined those conversations.This, at least I think, is a possible scenario.

On the other hand, Desmond could have been hearing those conversations because they were discussing them near him, and we know to that people in a coma can hear people talking to them, so therefore, Lucy is death in this scenario.

Do you see 2 examples of different scenarios that can happen, so I don't see why the second one has a much more probability to happen than the first one and vice versa. I'm not trying to prove that one perspective is stronger than the other, just trying to say that they both can happen, Lucy being alive is not ridiculous at all, just like Lucy being dead is not stupid at all.

LightRey
02-03-2012, 05:18 PM
I'm just going to utilize one of the examples that I used in my first post in this thread regarding Desmond hearing about Lucy's death and funeral in AC: Revelations. Like I said, Desmond (and we) only heard about her supposed death and funeral when he was in a coma, in the Animus and in the Black Room,so, he wasn't in a normal state. Like I said in that post, people who are in coma dream like us, but they can't wake up, and therefore they can't differentiate reality from the fantasy of their dreams, therefore they think reality and fact is what their dreams shows them. Desmond could have dreamed or imagined those conversations.This, at least I think, is a possible scenario.

On the other hand, Desmond could have been hearing those conversations because they were discussing them near him, and we know to that people in a coma can hear people talking to them, so therefore, Lucy is death in this scenario.

Do you see 2 examples of different scenarios that can happen, so I don't see why the second one has a much more probability to happen than the first one and vice versa. I'm not trying to prove that one perspective is stronger than the other, just trying to say that they both can happen, Lucy being alive is not ridiculous at all, just like Lucy being dead is not stupid at all.

The fact alone that she was stabbed is enough reason to believe the second scenario is more probable, but other than that, it's very simple why one should think so. The second scenario requires far fewer assumptions. Simply applying Occam's Razor is enough reason to go for the second scenario.

Gil_217
02-03-2012, 06:40 PM
The fact alone that she was stabbed is enough reason to believe the second scenario is more probable, but other than that, it's very simple why one should think so. The second scenario requires far fewer assumptions. Simply applying Occam's Razor is enough reason to go for the second scenario.

I don't know if something is escaping me but we don't even know if the stabbing was real. Normally, we wouldn't doubt about something like this, but it has already happened that someone (Altair) was stabbed, and then it turned out that it was an illusion. We have to take everything into consideration, that's why I'm saying this. If Ubisoft wants Lucy dead they can make it clear that she died when Desmond stabbed her, and they can say that the conversations between William, Shaun and Rebeca about Lucy's death in Revelations did indeed happen, showing scenes of the funeral, etc, just an example. If Ubisoft doesn't want Lucy dead, they can say that she was never stabbed, it was an illusion that served the same purpose if she was dead ( Desmond believing that he killed Lucy when in reality it was an illusion without Desmond knowing = Desmond killing Lucy in reality - what matters to TWCB is Desmond believing that Lucy is out, I think). And they can say too that the conversations between William, Shaun and Rebeca were purely products of Desmond's mind, because he was in coma.

Do you understand what I'm saying to you??

LightRey
02-03-2012, 06:52 PM
I don't know if something is escaping me but we don't even know if the stabbing was real. Normally, we wouldn't doubt about something like this, but it has already happened that someone (Altair) was stabbed, and then it turned out that it was an illusion. We have to take everything into consideration, that's why I'm saying this. If Ubisoft wants Lucy dead they can make it clear that she died when Desmond stabbed her, and they can say that the conversations between William, Shaun and Rebeca about Lucy's death in Revelations did indeed happen, showing scenes of the funeral, etc, just an example. If Ubisoft doesn't want Lucy dead, they can say that she was never stabbed, it was an illusion that served the same purpose if she was dead ( Desmond believing that he killed Lucy when in reality it was an illusion without Desmond knowing = Desmond killing Lucy in reality - what matters to TWCB is Desmond believing that Lucy is out, I think). And they can say too that the conversations between William, Shaun and Rebeca were purely products of Desmond's mind, because he was in coma.

Do you understand what I'm saying to you??

I do, but you're once again making for more assumptions than are necessary for the alternative. I'm not arguing that it's impossible that she's alive, I'm arguing that it's improbable.

Gil_217
02-03-2012, 06:56 PM
I do, but you're once again making for more assumptions than are necessary for the alternative. I'm not arguing that it's impossible that she's alive, I'm arguing that it's improbable.

I'm glad to say that at least we didn't start to bash each other, we just have different perspectives about something, and we accept them, which in my opinion is a good thing.

GLHS
02-04-2012, 01:53 PM
I don't know if something is escaping me but we don't even know if the stabbing was real. Normally, we wouldn't doubt about something like this, but it has already happened that someone (Altair) was stabbed, and then it turned out that it was an illusion. We have to take everything into consideration, that's why I'm saying this. If Ubisoft wants Lucy dead they can make it clear that she died when Desmond stabbed her, and they can say that the conversations between William, Shaun and Rebeca about Lucy's death in Revelations did indeed happen, showing scenes of the funeral, etc, just an example. If Ubisoft doesn't want Lucy dead, they can say that she was never stabbed, it was an illusion that served the same purpose if she was dead ( Desmond believing that he killed Lucy when in reality it was an illusion without Desmond knowing = Desmond killing Lucy in reality - what matters to TWCB is Desmond believing that Lucy is out, I think). And they can say too that the conversations between William, Shaun and Rebeca were purely products of Desmond's mind, because he was in coma.

Do you understand what I'm saying to you??

It just makes no sense to me that TWCB would know she's a threat to Desmond's purpose and let her live. If it was an illusion, it would've been revealed in AC:R. And the reason why your second scenario is more probable is b/c there's evidence of it and the first one makes no sense with the present story. Nothing about her still being alive makes any sense at all with the story, especially if she would prevent Desmond from saving the world or whatever. The probability of the two scenarios is like a million to one. As Lightrey said, I'm not saying that it's impossible, b/c Ubisoft could throw anything in there. Lets face it, the story of this game is pretty **** out there. But I am saying that it is basically about as highly improbable as you can get.

LightRey
02-04-2012, 02:12 PM
Besides, if it was an illusion, why? Why make an illusion in which she dies? What's the point? Why does it have to be an illusion of such scale that even William, etc. think she's dead and if they don't, why make everything Desmond hears of them while he's in a coma part of some sort of "dream"? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Also, I don't get why you think they didn't make it clear she was dead. We saw her get stabbed in the gut, we heard people tell each other she's dead and for god's sake they said they had buried her. The only reason we didn't see those last bits is because Desmond was in a figgin coma, but hearing really should be more than enough reason.

Gil_217
02-04-2012, 02:45 PM
Besides, if it was an illusion, why? Why make an illusion in which she dies? What's the point? Why does it have to be an illusion of such scale that even William, etc. think she's dead and if they don't, why make everything Desmond hears of them while he's in a coma part of some sort of "dream"? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Also, I don't get why you think they didn't make it clear she was dead. We saw her get stabbed in the gut, we heard people tell each other she's dead and for god's sake they said they had buried her. The only reason we didn't see those last bits is because Desmond was in a figgin coma, but hearing really should be more than enough reason.

Good God, did you even read my posts? Please read this entire post to see if you can understand what I'm telling you.

In the last part of your post you say:

"We saw her get stabbed in the gut" - It could have been an illusion, we don't know 100% if it was real, even more so when somebody in AC got already stabbed in the gut and it turned out that it was an illusion. What makes you think that can't happen again?? Like I already said Desmond believing that he killed Lucy when in fact it was an illusion without Desmond knowing = Desmond killing Lucy in reality - what matters to TWCB is Desmond believing that she's out. I don't believe that this scenario has a highly probability of happening, but it's possible, and it's not even ridiculous in my opinion.

"we heard people tell each other she's dead and for god's sake they said they had buried her" - Again, like I already said, Ubisoft can claim that those conversations were merely products of Desmond's mind, because he was in a coma, since that was the only time we heard about her death and funeral.

With all of this said, I'm not trying to prove that this scenario is stronger than the other, I'm just trying to show you and others that Lucy being alive is not ridiculous, impossible and stupid at all.

LightRey
02-04-2012, 03:22 PM
Good God, did you even read my posts? Please read this entire post to see if you can understand what I'm telling you.

In the last part of your post you say:

"We saw her get stabbed in the gut" - It could have been an illusion, we don't know 100% if it was real, even more so when somebody in AC got already stabbed in the gut and it turned out that it was an illusion. What makes you think that can't happen again?? Like I already said Desmond believing that he killed Lucy when in fact it was an illusion without Desmond knowing = Desmond killing Lucy in reality - what matters to TWCB is Desmond believing that she's out. I don't believe that this scenario has a highly probability of happening, but it's possible, and it's not even ridiculous in my opinion.

"we heard people tell each other she's dead and for god's sake they said they had buried her" - Again, like I already said, Ubisoft can claim that those conversations were merely products of Desmond's mind, because he was in a coma, since that was the only time we heard about her death and funeral.

With all of this said, I'm not trying to prove that this scenario is stronger than the other, I'm just trying to show you and others that Lucy being alive is not ridiculous, impossible and stupid at all.

Do you even read my posts? I directly referred to that scenario of yours. In the very post you quoted I also said: "why make everything Desmond hears of them while he's in a coma part of some sort of "dream"?". If killing Lucy was an illusion, you have to explain the fact that in ACR you hear William, Rebecca and Shaun talking about her being dead and buried. That would mean that, in your scenario, either Desmond is dreaming up all those conversations (which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever story-wise) or the apple is still creating the illusion to them as well.

But explain to me please, how that scenario would make any sense for the story. What significance would it have for the story to take this utterly bizarre road of killing, but not killing a character that turns out to be a traitor?

Oh and btw, the part you were responding you was referring to the provided information by the game that should be enough reason to believe that she is dead. It wasn't commenting on your theory, but on your reasons of doubt. In any scenario you can think of a story in which part was an illusion, which would allow for something you saw happen not to have happened. They freaking told us she is dead. What more do you want? That they put up a sign outside the grand temple stating: "Lucy is dead" or maybe you want them to dig up her body and crucify her to scare off other Templars?

Gil_217
02-04-2012, 03:30 PM
Do you even read my posts? I directly referred to that scenario of yours. In the very post you quoted I also said: "why make everything Desmond hears of them while he's in a coma part of some sort of "dream"?". If killing Lucy was an illusion, you have to explain the fact that in ACR you hear William, Rebecca and Shaun talking about her being dead and buried. That would mean that, in your scenario, either Desmond is dreaming up all those conversations (which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever story-wise) or the apple is still creating the illusion to them as well.

But explain to me please, how that scenario would make any sense for the story. What significance would it have for the story to take this utterly bizarre road of killing, but not killing a character that turns out to be a traitor?

It's even confirmed that Lucy is a traitor?? As far as I know it isn't officially confirmed yet, but I can be wrong of course. And I'm aware of the leaked video, but we don't know yet if that one will come out as DLC or to the next game.

LightRey
02-04-2012, 03:33 PM
It's even confirmed that Lucy is a traitor?? As far as I know it isn't officially confirmed yet, but I can be wrong of course. And I'm aware of the leaked video, but we don't know yet if that one will come out as DLC or to the next game.

The audio was very convincing (and this is coming from a guy that was convinced she couldn't be a traitor until the moment he heard the leaked audio), as the voices were clearly those of their respective voice actors. You don't have to believe me, but I have listened to part of it myself and even that little part was more than clear enough and since the modern-day stuff was thought out from the very beginning, there's no reason to assume that they'd suddenly change the fact that she's a traitor if they were clearly already planning to have her be one.

Gil_217
02-04-2012, 03:39 PM
The audio was very convincing (and this is coming from a guy that was convinced she couldn't be a traitor until the moment he heard the leaked audio), as the voices were clearly those of their respective voice actors. You don't have to believe me, but I have listened to part of it myself and even that little part was more than clear enough and since the modern-day stuff was thought out from the very beginning, there's no reason to assume that they'd suddenly change the fact that she's a traitor if they were clearly already planning to have her be one.

It's about time they announce the DLC man, I'm so looking forward to that. I think I always wanted Lucy to be a sleeper, it will add much more to her character, we'll see.

LightRey
02-04-2012, 03:43 PM
It's about time they announce the DLC man, I'm so looking forward to that. I think I always wanted Lucy to be a sleeper, it will add much more to her character, we'll see.

I don't like the fact that she's a traitor tbh. I found it very cliche. I just hope the situation is a little more complicated than Lucy having become a traitor because she didn't really feel part of the Assassins anymore after so many years of isolation with the Templars.

Gil_217
02-04-2012, 03:49 PM
I don't like the fact that she's a traitor tbh. I found it very cliche. I just hope the situation is a little more complicated than Lucy having become a traitor because she didn't really feel part of the Assassins anymore after so many years of isolation with the Templars.

We'll only find out when the DLC comes out, if it ever comes out.

Regarding TWCB killing Lucy, think with me: If I'm not mistaken, TWCB only need Lucy out of Desmond's life until Desmond finishes his mission, or finds Eden and Eve, and procreates or something like that. What I'm trying to say is TWCB only need Lucy out of Desmond's life in the short run, not in the long run. If this is correct, creating an illusion to fool Desmond into thinking that she's dead when in fact she isn't but without Desmond knowing until he finishes whatever he needs to do is absolutely perfect.

dxsxhxcx
02-04-2012, 04:01 PM
We'll only find out when the DLC comes out, if it ever comes out.

Regarding TWCB killing Lucy, think with me: If I'm not mistaken, TWCB only need Lucy out of Desmond's life until Desmond finishes his mission, or finds Eden and Eve, and procreates or something like that. What I'm trying to say is TWCB only need Lucy out of Desmond's life in the short run, not in the long run. If this is correct, creating an illusion to fool Desmond into thinking that she's dead when in fact she isn't but without Desmond knowing until he finishes whatever he needs to do is absolutely perfect.

so you're assuming that she's alive and well sleeping on the floor of the vault they found in Rome and will stay there until Desmond finishes his job?! This doesn't make sense to me, IMO if they wanted Lucy out of their way the only thing they needed to do was put her in a coma instead of Desmond, problem solved.. I'm not saying that the scenario where everything was an ilussion is impossible, but like LightRey said, it's improbable and IMO lame as hell...

LightRey
02-04-2012, 04:01 PM
We'll only find out when the DLC comes out, if it ever comes out.

Regarding TWCB killing Lucy, think with me: If I'm not mistaken, TWCB only need Lucy out of Desmond's life until Desmond finishes his mission, or finds Eden and Eve, and procreates or something like that. What I'm trying to say is TWCB only need Lucy out of Desmond's life in the short run, not in the long run. If this is correct, creating an illusion to fool Desmond into thinking that she's dead when in fact she isn't but without Desmond knowing until he finishes whatever he needs to do is absolutely perfect.

Still doesn't explain why he had to have weird "dreams" about conversations between Shaun, Rebecca and WIlliam.

Gil_217
02-04-2012, 04:10 PM
so you're assuming that she's alive and well sleeping on the floor of the vault they found in Rome and will stay there until Desmond finishes his job?! This doesn't make sense to me, IMO if they wanted Lucy out of their way the only thing they needed to do was put her in a coma instead of Desmond, problem solved.. I'm not saying that the scenario where everything was an ilussion is impossible, but like LightRey said, it's improbable and IMO lame as hell...

The only motive that I can understand for TWCB to kill Lucy is if she is indeed a traitor, and maybe they will release the DLC to explain that she was a traitor, providing at the same time an explanation to all of this. Still, it isn't confirmed, so everything can happen.

Of course that I don't expect her to be waiting on the floor of the vault until Desmond finishes his mission. The theory of her being alive can only happen if she's not a traitor in my view, and the explanation for TWCB "killing" Lucy can only be one in this scenario: her being some kind of distraction for Desmond during his mission, for whatever reasons. I don't know how, but TWCB can make it clear to the rest of the team that Lucy has to stay the hell out of Desmond's way until he finishes what he needs to do, and they will "hide" her until it ends. Just an example of what Ubisoft can do.

Gil_217
02-04-2012, 04:13 PM
Still doesn't explain why he had to have weird "dreams" about conversations between Shaun, Rebecca and WIlliam.

Why not?? You don't choose your dreams!

Or maybe because he was in shock because he believed that he "killed" her, therefore dreaming or imagining things about her death. Perfectly normal. Like some kind of post traumatic stress disorder.

LightRey
02-04-2012, 04:18 PM
Why not??

Or maybe because he was in shock because he believed that he "killed" her, therefore dreaming or imagining things about her death. Perfectly normal. Like some kind of post traumatic stress disorder.

Why not? Because what in the world would those conversations he hears be for then? Why would Desmond be having dreams about his father, who wasn't even there when he passed out, talking to Rebecca and Shaun about not only Lucy's death, but also the fact that he has more TWCB DNA than most or the fact that William is fascinated by the apple? It doesn't make any sense to put conversations like that in the game only to have them turn out to be random thoughts produced by Desmond's mind.

Gil_217
02-04-2012, 04:23 PM
Why not? Because what in the world would those conversations he hears be for then? Why would Desmond be having dreams about his father, who wasn't even there when he passed out, talking to Rebecca and Shaun about not only Lucy's death, but also the fact that he has more TWCB DNA than most or the fact that William is fascinated by the apple? It doesn't make any sense to put conversations like that in the game only to have them turn out to be random thoughts produced by Desmond's mind.

We are talking about dreams my friend, you don't choose about what you want to dream, and guess what, dreams are almost always stupid non sense, so what if he dreamed about that.

Look, again, I'm not saying that I believe that this will happen, but they are possible scenarios that totally can happen, and yes, they made sense, at least for me.

And, correct me if I'm mistaken, in the Da Vinci Disappearance, Desmond heard his father talking to other man, I don't know if he recognized his voice, but still, it worths a mention.

LightRey
02-04-2012, 04:32 PM
We are talking about dreams my friend, you don't choose about what you want to dream, and guess what, dreams are almost always stupid non sense, so what if he dreamed about that.

Look, again, I'm not saying that I believe that this will happen, but they are possible scenarios that totally can happen, and yes, they made sense, at least for me.

And, correct me if I'm mistaken, in the Da Vinci Disappearance, Desmond heard his father talking to other man, I don't know if he recognized his voice, but still, it worths a mention.

That's not my point. I'm talking about significance to the story. Desmond also has to go to the bathroom from time to time, change his clothes, eat and drink, etc., but we don't see him doing that either. If it doesn't have any significance to the story (and it's not funny), they don't put it in there. There's no reason to have these weird conversations that would have significant meaning if they were real be in there if they are just "dreams". They don't add anything to the story if they're things made up by Desmond's mind. In fact, they're only confusing and annoying that way.

We all know it's possible. It's also possible that the Templar Grand Master is a magical rabbit who was cursed by an evil witch living on the moon, but that doesn't exactly make it a valid theory. This theory is just too improbable.

And, yes, you're right. I'm not entirely sure who he was, but he might have been the one driving the truck.

Gil_217
02-04-2012, 04:38 PM
That's not my point. I'm talking about significance to the story. Desmond also has to go to the bathroom from time to time, change his clothes, eat and drink, etc., but we don't see him doing that either. If it doesn't have any significance to the story (and it's not funny), they don't put it in there. There's no reason to have these weird conversations that would have significant meaning if they were real be in there if they are just "dreams". They don't add anything to the story if they're things made up by Desmond's mind. In fact, they're only confusing and annoying that way.

We all know it's possible. It's also possible that the Templar Grand Master is a magical rabbit who was cursed by an evil witch living on the moon, but that doesn't exactly make it a valid theory. This theory is just too improbable.

And, yes, you're right. I'm not entirely sure who he was, but he might have been the one driving the truck.

Well, I hope they release the DLC soon enough for this speculation to end. I think it's about time we know about Lucy's faith, and whether she's a traitor or not.

kenshijr
02-05-2012, 04:59 AM
thats not what she said

GLHS
02-05-2012, 11:24 AM
Here's what I'm missing. Forget about the DLC, and forget about why she was killed. Honestly, it doesn't matter if she a traitor. It doesn't matter why TWCB needed her dead. The reason why this argument has been continuing is b/c all of you who think she might be alive or that's it's a possible scenario aren't giving any reasons of why or how it would make sense with the story. How would it make sense or benefit either Desmond or the Assassins if she was still alive? If so, where has she been? You can't possibly think it makes any sense that Shaun would just be standing around in Rome with Lucy and goin "haha they think I'm dead." And why wasn't she with them in the truck waiting for Desmond to wake up? B/c I guarantee that if she were still alive, she wouldn't agree to leave Desmond's side. It's not in her character. You all keep saying that it's possible, but not giving any reasons on why or how it would make sense with all of the other aspects of the story. Sure, it's possible Desmond dreamed the conversations. So what? Whoopty-doo. It doesn't describe how she still wasn't with them if only Desmond thought she was still dead. It doesn't describe why Shaun had to stay behind and catch up with them later. It doesn't describe how even Clay knew she was dead and was the one who brought it to Desmond's attention in the first place and made him remember, saying something about them burying her and then, "Oh, wait....you didn't know?" Are you seriously telling me that, if it was in fact nothing more than illusion created by either TWCB or the Apple, that the illusion reached even Clay and fooled him too? You guys are making way too much out of an extremely highly improbable situation. You have no evidence or clues of any kind to back it, and even worse, you have no way of fitting it into the story with all of the other details. You're all trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and you're losing. Terribly. Can somebody please address the other details within the story and describe for me how it would make any sense whatsoever? And don't give me bs answers like "well, idk how but maybe they did this or this." That only shows that you're fighting to get it to make sense.

POP1Fan
02-05-2012, 12:27 PM
While is it true that you don't chose your dreams, keep in mind that not Desmond chose them, but the devs.It was stated in the game that Lucy is dead, the devs stated in an interview that she is dead and are moving forward to explain WHY she is dead, the leak proves she is dead....I don't understand why people grasp at "dream" theories that suck.I for one am very happy Lucy is dead beacuse i don't like her at all.
SHE IS DEAD! ACCEPT IT PEOPLE!

Gil_217
02-05-2012, 12:40 PM
Here's what I'm missing. Forget about the DLC, and forget about why she was killed. Honestly, it doesn't matter if she a traitor. It doesn't matter why TWCB needed her dead. The reason why this argument has been continuing is b/c all of you who think she might be alive or that's it's a possible scenario aren't giving any reasons of why or how it would make sense with the story. How would it make sense or benefit either Desmond or the Assassins if she was still alive? If so, where has she been? You can't possibly think it makes any sense that Shaun would just be standing around in Rome with Lucy and goin "haha they think I'm dead." And why wasn't she with them in the truck waiting for Desmond to wake up? B/c I guarantee that if she were still alive, she wouldn't agree to leave Desmond's side. It's not in her character. You all keep saying that it's possible, but not giving any reasons on why or how it would make sense with all of the other aspects of the story. Sure, it's possible Desmond dreamed the conversations. So what? Whoopty-doo. It doesn't describe how she still wasn't with them if only Desmond thought she was still dead. It doesn't describe why Shaun had to stay behind and catch up with them later. It doesn't describe how even Clay knew she was dead and was the one who brought it to Desmond's attention in the first place and made him remember, saying something about them burying her and then, "Oh, wait....you didn't know?" Are you seriously telling me that, if it was in fact nothing more than illusion created by either TWCB or the Apple, that the illusion reached even Clay and fooled him too? You guys are making way too much out of an extremely highly improbable situation. You have no evidence or clues of any kind to back it, and even worse, you have no way of fitting it into the story with all of the other details. You're all trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and you're losing. Terribly. Can somebody please address the other details within the story and describe for me how it would make any sense whatsoever? And don't give me bs answers like "well, idk how but maybe they did this or this." That only shows that you're fighting to get it to make sense.

Are we entering in the phase of denial much??

Ok, I'm gonna repeat myself again, please try to understand what I'm going to say to you, ok???

First of all, how in the hell it doesn't matter if she's a traitor or not or why TWCB needed to kill her? Of course it matters.

"Sure, it's possible Desmond dreamed the conversations. So what? Whoopty-doo. It doesn't describe how she still wasn't with them if only Desmond thought she was still dead. It doesn't describe why Shaun had to stay behind and catch up with them later" - Talk about contradicting yourself. If Desmond dreamed about those conversations, Shaun didn't stay behind, because you only heard about him staying behind in the conversations, get it?

"It doesn't describe how she still wasn't with them if only Desmond thought she was still dead" - How do you even know if she wasn't with them, we only saw them in the last cut-scene, in the van for a brief moment, and that's it. I'm not even implying that she was with them.

"How would it make sense or benefit either Desmond or the Assassins if she was still alive?" - Do we even know officially (we only heard a leaked video, we don't even know if that one will come out as DLC or something like that, I hope so) if she's a traitor? I don't think so.

As for Clay, I still don't even know what the hell he was, what were his intentions, and by the way, how in the **** (excuse my language) does he know about her death? Maybe I'm missing something here but now that we are talking about him, I found very strange that a dead guy who is now some kind of program inside an Animus knows about a death of someone who died so recently. Manipulations of events at his best if you ask me.

Now, like I said many times, if you read my posts entirely you would be aware of it, Desmond stabbing Lucy in the Vault doesn't prove anything, first she could have survived if she was indeed stabbed, or she could have died. Secondly, it could have been an illusion (the exact same thing happened to Altair) created by TWCB with the objective of making Desmond believe that he killed Lucy, when in fact he didn't (Desmond believing that he killed Lucy when in fact he didn't = Desmond killing Lucy in reality). TWCB only need Lucy out of Desmond's life in the short run, not in the long run. Now, where she is - I don't know, you know why? because I'm not aware of TWCB powers at this point, I don't know if they can communicate with the rest of the team or something, I don't know if they can just make her disappear or something to that effect. If Ubisoft by any means goes with this I'm sure they will find a good explanation for this question.

As for the conversations, you already know my explanation to that one, so it's not necessary for me to say it again.

For the last time, and read this please, when I say all of this, I'm not trying to say that this will happen or I want something like this to happen, I'm just trying to show you that Lucy being alive is not ridiculous at all.


Any questions?

S-onnyK
02-05-2012, 12:46 PM
She is dead but...
dang lucy was hot.

GLHS
02-05-2012, 03:00 PM
Are we entering in the phase of denial much??

Ok, I'm gonna repeat myself again, please try to understand what I'm going to say to you, ok???

First of all, how in the hell it doesn't matter if she's a traitor or not or why TWCB needed to kill her? Of course it matters.

"Sure, it's possible Desmond dreamed the conversations. So what? Whoopty-doo. It doesn't describe how she still wasn't with them if only Desmond thought she was still dead. It doesn't describe why Shaun had to stay behind and catch up with them later" - Talk about contradicting yourself. If Desmond dreamed about those conversations, Shaun didn't stay behind, because you only heard about him staying behind in the conversations, get it?

"It doesn't describe how she still wasn't with them if only Desmond thought she was still dead" - How do you even know if she wasn't with them, we only saw them in the last cut-scene, in the van for a brief moment, and that's it. I'm not even implying that she was with them.

"How would it make sense or benefit either Desmond or the Assassins if she was still alive?" - Do we even know officially (we only heard a leaked video, we don't even know if that one will come out as DLC or something like that, I hope so) if she's a traitor? I don't think so.

As for Clay, I still don't even know what the hell he was, what were his intentions, and by the way, how in the **** (excuse my language) does he know about her death? Maybe I'm missing something here but now that we are talking about him, I found very strange that a dead guy who is now some kind of program inside an Animus knows about a death of someone who died so recently. Manipulations of events at his best if you ask me.

Now, like I said many times, if you read my posts entirely you would be aware of it, Desmond stabbing Lucy in the Vault doesn't prove anything, first she could have survived if she was indeed stabbed, or she could have died. Secondly, it could have been an illusion (the exact same thing happened to Altair) created by TWCB with the objective of making Desmond believe that he killed Lucy, when in fact he didn't (Desmond believing that he killed Lucy when in fact he didn't = Desmond killing Lucy in reality). TWCB only need Lucy out of Desmond's life in the short run, not in the long run. Now, where she is - I don't know, you know why? because I'm not aware of TWCB powers at this point, I don't know if they can communicate with the rest of the team or something, I don't know if they can just make her disappear or something to that effect. If Ubisoft by any means goes with this I'm sure they will find a good explanation for this question.

As for the conversations, you already know my explanation to that one, so it's not necessary for me to say it again.

For the last time, and read this please, when I say all of this, I'm not trying to say that this will happen or I want something like this to happen, I'm just trying to show you that Lucy being alive is not ridiculous at all.


Any questions?

No questions, b/c I'm done. I give up. This is pathetic. All you did was restate the exact same things you've said in your last like 3 posts. You haven't actually explained anything as to how it would make sense within the story, because you have no reasons, as I expected. All you do is propose questions to throw the heat back onto my side. It almost looks as if you just copied and pasted from your previous posts. I meant that those things didn't matter b/c the point of the argument is rather it make sense or not. Those facts didn't matter for the purpose of my post. You people think what you want. Fine. She's alive. Or she could be. Or it's possible. wtf ever. If the devs followed your lines of thinking, the story would be confusing and look like it was scripted by a 5 year old. It makes no sense, there are no clues or facts, everything shows to the contrary, but yep she's still alive. Or we don't know that she's officially dead. The whole thing is ret@rded, and no matter what "proof" is thrown at you from the devs, the game, other sites, or anything else, you will always still think there is that chance, however minuscule. As far as I'm concerned, people that want it to happen or think that she is alive, and the people, like yourself, that just think it's probable and not ridiculous, are in the same category since you both look at everything in this discussion the same way.

Lightrey, you can pick it here if you like, but I'm done trying to explain obvious things to oblivious people.

Gil_217
02-05-2012, 03:26 PM
No questions, b/c I'm done. I give up. This is pathetic. All you did was restate the exact same things you've said in your last like 3 posts. You haven't actually explained anything as to how it would make sense within the story, because you have no reasons, as I expected. All you do is propose questions to throw the heat back onto my side. It almost looks as if you just copied and pasted from your previous posts. I meant that those things didn't matter b/c the point of the argument is rather it make sense or not. Those facts didn't matter for the purpose of my post. You people think what you want. Fine. She's alive. Or she could be. Or it's possible. wtf ever. If the devs followed your lines of thinking, the story would be confusing and look like it was scripted by a 5 year old. It makes no sense, there are no clues or facts, everything shows to the contrary, but yep she's still alive. Or we don't know that she's officially dead. The whole thing is ret@rded, and no matter what "proof" is thrown at you from the devs, the game, other sites, or anything else, you will always still think there is that chance, however minuscule. As far as I'm concerned, people that want it to happen or think that she is alive, and the people, like yourself, that just think it's probable and not ridiculous, are in the same category since you both look at everything in this discussion the same way.

Lightrey, you can pick it here if you like, but I'm done trying to explain obvious things to oblivious people.

Thank you so much for addressing absolutely nothing that I wrote, I feel like I've been wasting my time here. My conversation with you is over, clearly you can only see one perspective, you just can't think outside the box, not trying to bash you but I think that you are a very limited person, you just believe and you just see the most obvious explanation, you just can't expand your thinking. I actually addressed and provided different explanations about Lucy's state, you just can't do that.

But before I'm done with you, please, for the first time in your life, try to explain something to me that I present you: How in the hell does Clay, a dead person who is now some kind of a program in the Animus knows about the death of someone, who as a matter of fact died so recently. This is a very simple question, and if you can answer it, I will provide some more.

GLHS
02-05-2012, 04:00 PM
Clay knows a lot of different things, since he saw the future and kinda knows what's gonna happen. At the same time, he also says a lot of random things, and the devs even said that sometimes things he says are b/c he's insane and seen so much that he doesn't understand. But if you remember from his dialogue in AC:B, he did mention something about "her not being who you think she is" and that "everything you know, everything you hold dear is already gone. It's already too late." He definitely knows a lot more than he's letting on, and I doubt it would be too hard for him to get inside Desmond's head. He's only existent as an AI in the Black Room, and since he knows what's happening to Desmond since he's already been there, I'm sure he has a bit of an idea of what's going on. Of course, it's not made obvious exactly how he knows that she's dead, but it's quite probable that he saw it before hand and already knew it was going to happen.

I'm not a limited person, actually, and I think quite outside the box on many an issue. And since you don't really know me, I'm not really quite sure that my differing opinion on one issue allows you to judge my view on anything else in my life. But on this particular one, I just don't see the probability. It makes no sense, and I believe the devs when they point blank state in a written interview that she is in fact dead. I don't believe they lied to cover up a story twist. That particular question wasn't even asked. He chose to bring it up and give it an answer. If she was alive, he wouldn't have brought it up, or he would've given a "beating around the bush, not really answering the question" answer. And he wouldn't have stated that their main focus on that particular issue now is answering why she was killed. It was the script writer being interviewed, above all. So, yes, I tend to trust his word. Even thoughts outside the box need structure and need to be valid and make sense. I just don't see it. And neither does most everybody else on here, as many have stated that she is dead and only a few of you believe in the possibility of her being alive. I was the one who posted the interview with Game Informer that he did, and if you would like to read it to see exactly how he said everything, and it's following comments go here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/656973-New-Game-Informer-AC-R-Aftermath-Interview

LightRey
02-05-2012, 04:10 PM
No questions, b/c I'm done. I give up. This is pathetic. All you did was restate the exact same things you've said in your last like 3 posts. You haven't actually explained anything as to how it would make sense within the story, because you have no reasons, as I expected. All you do is propose questions to throw the heat back onto my side. It almost looks as if you just copied and pasted from your previous posts. I meant that those things didn't matter b/c the point of the argument is rather it make sense or not. Those facts didn't matter for the purpose of my post. You people think what you want. Fine. She's alive. Or she could be. Or it's possible. wtf ever. If the devs followed your lines of thinking, the story would be confusing and look like it was scripted by a 5 year old. It makes no sense, there are no clues or facts, everything shows to the contrary, but yep she's still alive. Or we don't know that she's officially dead. The whole thing is ret@rded, and no matter what "proof" is thrown at you from the devs, the game, other sites, or anything else, you will always still think there is that chance, however minuscule. As far as I'm concerned, people that want it to happen or think that she is alive, and the people, like yourself, that just think it's probable and not ridiculous, are in the same category since you both look at everything in this discussion the same way.

Lightrey, you can pick it here if you like, but I'm done trying to explain obvious things to oblivious people.

I would, but there really isn't much to add. We keep covering the same stuff. For some reason Gil keeps arguing the point that the theory is possible, which neither of us denies. I could come up with a number of equally improbable theories that are possible, but that doesn't really mean anything. Anyways, I think I'll just sum it all up:

1. There is no reason to assume that Ubisoft went out of their way to avoid showing absolute evidence that Lucy is dead, considering the situation (Desmond going into a comatose state after stabbing Lucy in the abdomen). Therefore one can come to the very reasonable assumption that the very strong indications of Lucy's death (i.e. the stabbing and the several confirmations of her death that can be heard in some (not all!) conversations between Shaun, Rebecca and William).
2. One could theorize that said conversations were not real, but story-wise that would make little sense as said conversations seem to reveal things about what's going on outside the Animus, such as the guys taking a plane and using fake ID's to avoid detection. If they were all part of some "dream" of Desmond's, why put such conversations in the game in the first place?
3. One could also argue that it was all caused by an illusion created by the apple and that said illusion is still in effect, but that brings up many questions. Aside from the obvious lack of sense story-wise to have such an event, William and his nameless companion arrived after the apple had activated. It is possible that the apple added their minds to the illusion, but it would be a little weird, not to mention that William has apparently been studying the apple the entire time during ACR.
4. TWCB seemed to have wanted Lucy dead, as is evidenced by several things Juno said such as "Go! Alone!" and the fact that she turned out to actually be a traitor. One could argue that maybe they simply failed, but it is quite hard to imagine that the people that can apparently predict (almost) exactly when someone is going to be somewhere and say something specific and subsequently have a prerecorded answer ready for them, enabling them to have a conversation across apparently thousands of years, would fail in making sure a specific woman was dead.

I think that's all really. I'm kinda done here too. Not really much more to say.

Gil_217
02-05-2012, 04:14 PM
Clay knows a lot of different things, since he saw the future and kinda knows what's gonna happen. At the same time, he also says a lot of random things, and the devs even said that sometimes things he says are b/c he's insane and seen so much that he doesn't understand. But if you remember from his dialogue in AC:B, he did mention something about "her not being who you think she is" and that "everything you know, everything you hold dear is already gone. It's already too late." He definitely knows a lot more than he's letting on, and I doubt it would be too hard for him to get inside Desmond's head. He's only existent as an AI in the Black Room, and since he knows what's happening to Desmond since he's already been there, I'm sure he has a bit of an idea of what's going on. Of course, it's not made obvious exactly how he know that she's dead, but it's quite probably that he saw it before hand and already knew it was going to happen.

I'm not a limited person, actually, and I think quite outside the box on many an issue. And since you don't really know me, I'm not really quite sure that my differing opinion on one issue allows you to judge my view on anything else in my life. But on this particular one, I just don't see the probability. It makes no sense, and I believe the devs when they point blank state in a written interview that she is in fact dead. I don't believe they lied to cover up a story twist. That particular question wasn't even asked. He chose to bring it up and give it an answer. If she was alive, he wouldn't have brought it up, or he would've given a "beating around the bush, not really answering the question" answer. And he wouldn't have stated that their main focus on that particular issue now is answering why she was killed. It was the script writer being interviewed, above all. So, yes, I tend to trust his word. Even thoughts outside the box need structure and need to be valid and make sense. I just don't see it. And neither does most everybody else on here, as many have stated that she is dead and only a few of you believe in the possibility of her being alive. I was the one who posted the interview with Game Informer that he did, and if you would like to read it to see exactly how he said everything, and it's following comments go here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/656973-New-Game-Informer-AC-R-Aftermath-Interview

Now that's a post, finally you talked about the topic here, in your last posts you were just denying everything everyone was saying that you didn't believe without providing any support to your claims whatsoever. I still fail to see how can a program inside a machine know about events that happened so recently but whatever. ( Clay being aware of Lucy's death)

Now, to settle this discussion once and for all, I ask you to write the reasons that made you believe so much that Lucy is dead, and then I'm just going to do what I've been doing here all along, provide different answers that, guess what, can make sense. Look, the fun thing here is I don't particularly believe that what I've been saying here all along is going to happen, I just find a little stupid (stupid was not particularly the term that I wanted to use) people considering the theory about Lucy being alive is ridiculous and makes no sense whatsoever just because the game is building up her death. Just because the evidence points out to one way, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are going with that way.

kenshijr
02-05-2012, 04:24 PM
i have no idea what you and lightrey are talkin about but fill me in cause thats too much reading

LightRey
02-05-2012, 04:30 PM
i have no idea what you and lightrey are talkin about but fill me in cause thats too much reading

It's a debate on the possibility (or lack thereof) of Lucy being alive. GLHS and I are arguing that there's no real reason to believe that she's still alive. My previous post basically sums up everything so far.

DinoSteve1
02-05-2012, 05:21 PM
is the audio link still about?

LightRey
02-05-2012, 05:33 PM
is the audio link still about?

Maybe, but if it is you'll likely have a hard time finding it.

POP1Fan
02-05-2012, 05:36 PM
I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that Lucy might be alive(IF the devs wouldn't have confirmed her death).But because they did, this whole disscusin is like arguing if Al Mualim is dead and was not just a dream of Altair or an ilussion of the Apple, but canonwise he is dead, and so is Lucy.
Of course, if there was still no confimation of the fact that she is dead, NO ONE would not agree that she might be alive, but(and i am starting to repeat myself)her death is confirmed, there is no point in creating theories of her being alive...it will not change anything.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 05:38 PM
I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that Lucy might be alive(IF the devs wouldn't have confirmed her death).But because they did, this whole disscusin is like arguing if Al Mualim is dead and was not just a dream of Altair or an ilussion of the Apple, but canonwise he is dead, and so is Lucy.
Of course, if there was still no confimation of the fact that she is dead, NO ONE would not agree that she might be alive, but(and i am starting to repeat myself)her death is confirmed, there is no point in creating theories of her being alive...it will not change anything.

It was confirmed? Well then that's final. Now I really don't see any reason to continue.

POP1Fan
02-05-2012, 05:42 PM
It was confirmed? Well then that's final. Now I really don't see any reason to continue. Wasn't there an interview where they said that Lucy is dead and ar moving on to explain WHY she was killed?

LightRey
02-05-2012, 05:44 PM
Wasn't there an interview where they said that Lucy is dead and ar moving on to explain WHY she was killed? Not that I know of.
...Although on second thought I do seem to remember something like that.

DinoSteve1
02-05-2012, 05:47 PM
pfft I liked lucy, Oh well, as long as the story about her death or survival isnt stupidly crazy its ok I guess

GLHS
02-05-2012, 05:49 PM
@Lightrey: Yeah, they confirm it in that interview with Game Informer that I posted. The link to it is in one of my previous posts. I'm pretty sure you read it, but I'm guessing you just forgot. He point blank states that certain questions were answered in Revelations, her death being one of them, and that now their focus on that issue is explaining why she was killed.

In relation to Gil_217's post: a lot of us on here have already stated the reasons why we believe she is dead, including reasons from the game and the interview with the devs, as well as the wiki that states that when Desmond stabbed her, she died and that Shaun stayed behind to see that she was buried. There's quite a large number of reasons, and since they're all listed within this thread and it would be a lot of retyping to go through them all, I think you should just go back through and reread some of the reasons. But, as POP1Fan stated, it really is kinda pointless to continue the argument of it. I'd say everybody just agrees to disagree on this matter and everybody will have the proof in the DLC and AC3.

And about the audio leak, as far as I know, the video and all links to sites containing it have been taken down.

POP1Fan
02-05-2012, 05:59 PM
Not that I know of.
...Although on second thought I do seem to remember something like that.

Q: What questions do you feel that AC:R successfully answered for long-time players? What big unanswered questions remain?
A: Before Revelations was released, the most frequent questions we got from our fans were :"What ultimately happened to Altair?", "What did Altair see in the Apple when he went back for one last look?" , "Who did Ezio continue his bloodline with?" , "Is Lucy dead?" , and "What ultimately happened to the First Civilization?" All these questions have been answered. Naturally, some remain..."WHY was Lucy killed?" is a big one. But have no fear. We'll get there.

Taken from this thread http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/656973-New-Game-Informer-AC-R-Aftermath-Interview started by GLHS.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 06:01 PM
Q: What questions do you feel that AC:R successfully answered for long-time players? What big unanswered questions remain?
A: Before Revelations was released, the most frequent questions we got from our fans were :"What ultimately happened to Altair?", "What did Altair see in the Apple when he went back for one last look?" , "Who did Ezio continue his bloodline with?" , "Is Lucy dead?" , and "What ultimately happened to the First Civilization?" All these questions have been answered. Naturally, some remain..."WHY was Lucy killed?" is a big one. But have no fear. We'll get there.

Taken from this thread http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/656973-New-Game-Informer-AC-R-Aftermath-Interview started by GLHS.

Ah, yes of course. That pretty much says it all.

GLHS
02-05-2012, 06:02 PM
Lol thanks. I was just posting the link b/c I was being lazy but there you all go.

Gil_217
02-05-2012, 07:09 PM
Well, I think I can rest now, all my efforts for absolutely nothing, everything destroyed in a simple Q&A, lol, I feel so disappointed.

Still, it's funny how we (at least some of us) needed a Q&A to accept Lucy's death 100%.

Oh wait... maybe they are building up her death in interviews too, it wouldn't be the first time people from Ubisoft contradicted themselves.

LightRey
02-05-2012, 07:11 PM
Well, I think I can rest now, all my efforts for absolutely nothing, everything destroyed in a simple Q&A, lol, I feel so disappointed.

Still, it's funny how we (at least some of us) needed a Q&A to accept Lucy's death 100%.

Oh wait... maybe they are building up her death in interviews too, it wouldn't be the first time people from Ubisoft contradicted themselves.

You had better be joking.

Gil_217
02-05-2012, 07:23 PM
You had better be joking.

It's not over yet!!!

pacmanate
02-05-2012, 08:18 PM
Well after being away for 2 weeks from this thread I come back saying.....

She's dead. Either that or Rebecca and Shaun just couldn't be bothered to mention where she was at all when Desmond came out.

GLHS
02-06-2012, 03:25 PM
Well, I think I can rest now, all my efforts for absolutely nothing, everything destroyed in a simple Q&A, lol, I feel so disappointed.

Still, it's funny how we (at least some of us) needed a Q&A to accept Lucy's death 100%.

Oh wait... maybe they are building up her death in interviews too, it wouldn't be the first time people from Ubisoft contradicted themselves.

Seriously? I mentioned his comment in the interview like 20 times to you before POP1Fan even posted it in here. I told you almost word for word what he said. And you still argued your point. So either you didn't read what I said, you didn't believe me, or just completely disregarded it. There are those that have said, even after reading that interview, that they were just lying so we wouldn't find out she's still alive, and in one of my last posts, I even covered the fact that he chose to bring that question up and to answer it on his own, and that I would tend to believe them when they themselves say she is dead, and even still, you continued to argue the fact that it's probable that she's still alive. I don't get it.

stefman6987
02-06-2012, 05:57 PM
she's dead just accept it ahaha, i think it's awesome that she's dead, imagine if they just continued and saved the world.. that would be gay! this provides an awesome twist and even goes further into abstergo's cinical ways

Gil_217
02-06-2012, 06:52 PM
Seriously? I mentioned his comment in the interview like 20 times to you before POP1Fan even posted it in here. I told you almost word for word what he said. And you still argued your point. So either you didn't read what I said, you didn't believe me, or just completely disregarded it. There are those that have said, even after reading that interview, that they were just lying so we wouldn't find out she's still alive, and in one of my last posts, I even covered the fact that he chose to bring that question up and to answer it on his own, and that I would tend to believe them when they themselves say she is dead, and even still, you continued to argue the fact that it's probable that she's still alive. I don't get it.

http://rafaoliveiralopes.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/trollface.jpg?w=300&h=273

GLHS
02-06-2012, 09:28 PM
http://rafaoliveiralopes.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/trollface.jpg?w=300&h=273

It makes me laugh that everybody argues about so much stuff on here and whoever's wrong feels like such an idiot for arguing so much lol.

E-Zekiel
02-06-2012, 09:52 PM
Being dead doesn't mean she can't come back. Shroud and such. Just saying.

Gil_217
02-06-2012, 09:57 PM
Being dead doesn't mean she can't come back. Shroud and such. Just saying.

She's dead man, c'mon just accept it, why don't you just accept that Lucy is dead and buried. There's no way back, and no, you will not see Desmond and Lucy doing what the hell you want them to do.

Deal with it!!

YuurHeen
02-06-2012, 10:11 PM
and you dont want her to come back after weeks in the ground. the smell will kill desmond.

i guess its just like religion. sometimes someone wants to believe in stuff even when there is evidence against it.

E-Zekiel
02-06-2012, 10:36 PM
I don't really care which way it goes honestly. I was merely pointing out the fact that the Shroud supposedly brings people back from the dead. Nobody ever said Jesus was rotting and funny-smelling, green-skinned or yellow-toothed after resurrecting, so.

Sorry if you mistakenly attribute some sort of bias to just saying that :p

Acrimonious_Nin
02-07-2012, 12:29 AM
she''ll never die because i LOVE her!!!!!!!!:mad:

GLHS
02-07-2012, 10:37 AM
Being dead doesn't mean she can't come back. Shroud and such. Just saying.

The Shroud can't being the dead back to life, so idk where you're goin with that. It heals injures and can reanimate a body, but only for a few minutes. The Ankh is the one that resurrects, but only temporarily, so she'd still end up dead anyway. Plus, the Shroud has barely anything to do with jesus anyway. He had it and the Templars killed him and got it back. His disciples retrieved it but it didn't work. His resurrection was likely an illusion created by the Apple, and the Shroud of Turin is a fake to act as a decoy.

dxsxhxcx
02-07-2012, 12:04 PM
if a POE was able to resurrect someone TWCB would be alive and well today... so if Lucy is dead (what I think it's the case), she'll stay that way, and resurrection even if possible would be lame IMO...

GLHS
02-07-2012, 01:23 PM
Exactly my thought lol

LightRey
02-07-2012, 01:37 PM
if a POE was able to resurrect someone TWCB would be alive and well today... so if Lucy is dead (what I think it's the case), she'll stay that way, and resurrection even if possible would be lame IMO...

Besides, we can pretty much exclude that possibility as TWCB were unable to survive to at least beyond the late 1400's.

JayNike
02-07-2012, 02:30 PM
I still don't know what to think about Lucy's death ... If you take a look at all the info they've given us the logical thing to think is that she really died.
But on the other hand: things aren't alway what they seem to be in AC. So there might still be a chance that she's alive.
A lot of people say that Juno made Desmond stab Lucy because she was a traitor (supported by the leaked audio).
I want to add 2 things here:
1) In the leaked audio they say Lucy was a double agent working for the templars. But what if she wasn't? And she just made the templars believe she was as a double agent?
By doing this she good easily provide the assassins with all the equipment they need for the animus.
2) The reason why Juno forced Desmond to stab her (or create the illusion) could be that they just needed Desmond to go in a coma and the black room so he could find the synch nexus.
If he didn't stab Lucy (or thought he did), he wouldn't have gone into shock and coma, he wouldn't have gone in the black room, meet 16, find the synch nexus, ... When Desmond wakes up from
his coma he says: Now I know what to do. So if he didn't went into coma he wouldn't have know what to do. And what is the best way to make someone go into shock? Make him (think) stab
the woman he loves...

Or maybe I'm just overthinking stuff :p

dxsxhxcx
02-07-2012, 03:03 PM
I still don't know what to think about Lucy's death ... If you take a look at all the info they've given us the logical thing to think is that she really died.
But on the other hand: things aren't alway what they seem to be in AC. So there might still be a chance that she's alive.
A lot of people say that Juno made Desmond stab Lucy because she was a traitor (supported by the leaked audio).
I want to add 2 things here:
1) In the leaked audio they say Lucy was a double agent working for the templars. But what if she wasn't? And she just made the templars believe she was as a double agent?
By doing this she good easily provide the assassins with all the equipment they need for the animus.
2) The reason why Juno forced Desmond to stab her (or create the illusion) could be that they just needed Desmond to go in a coma and the black room so he could find the synch nexus.
If he didn't stab Lucy (or thought he did), he wouldn't have gone into shock and coma, he wouldn't have gone in the black room, meet 16, find the synch nexus, ... When Desmond wakes up from
his coma he says: Now I know what to do. So if he didn't went into coma he wouldn't have know what to do. And what is the best way to make someone go into shock? Make him (think) stab
the woman he loves...

Or maybe I'm just overthinking stuff :p

using your logic (things aren't always what they seem to be in AC) we could do the same about any affirmation already made (and not showed with images) in the game...

1) even if she wasn't working for the templars, if what we saw at the end of ACB (and according to what was said in ACR) wasn't an illusion, she working for the templars or not won't change the fact that she's dead...

2) I think TWCB are strong enough to put Desmond into a coma without stabbing Lucy, they just "killed two birds with one stone" at the end of ACB....

GLHS
02-07-2012, 03:43 PM
I still don't know what to think about Lucy's death ... If you take a look at all the info they've given us the logical thing to think is that she really died.
But on the other hand: things aren't alway what they seem to be in AC. So there might still be a chance that she's alive.
A lot of people say that Juno made Desmond stab Lucy because she was a traitor (supported by the leaked audio).
I want to add 2 things here:
1) In the leaked audio they say Lucy was a double agent working for the templars. But what if she wasn't? And she just made the templars believe she was as a double agent?
By doing this she good easily provide the assassins with all the equipment they need for the animus.
2) The reason why Juno forced Desmond to stab her (or create the illusion) could be that they just needed Desmond to go in a coma and the black room so he could find the synch nexus.
If he didn't stab Lucy (or thought he did), he wouldn't have gone into shock and coma, he wouldn't have gone in the black room, meet 16, find the synch nexus, ... When Desmond wakes up from
his coma he says: Now I know what to do. So if he didn't went into coma he wouldn't have know what to do. And what is the best way to make someone go into shock? Make him (think) stab
the woman he loves...

Or maybe I'm just overthinking stuff :p


-__-

Acrimonious_Nin
02-07-2012, 04:10 PM
I still don't know what to think about Lucy's death ... If you take a look at all the info they've given us the logical thing to think is that she really died.
But on the other hand: things aren't alway what they seem to be in AC. So there might still be a chance that she's alive.
A lot of people say that Juno made Desmond stab Lucy because she was a traitor (supported by the leaked audio).
I want to add 2 things here:
1) In the leaked audio they say Lucy was a double agent working for the templars. But what if she wasn't? And she just made the templars believe she was as a double agent?
By doing this she good easily provide the assassins with all the equipment they need for the animus.
2) The reason why Juno forced Desmond to stab her (or create the illusion) could be that they just needed Desmond to go in a coma and the black room so he could find the synch nexus.
If he didn't stab Lucy (or thought he did), he wouldn't have gone into shock and coma, he wouldn't have gone in the black room, meet 16, find the synch nexus, ... When Desmond wakes up from
his coma he says: Now I know what to do. So if he didn't went into coma he wouldn't have know what to do. And what is the best way to make someone go into shock? Make him (think) stab
the woman he loves...

Or maybe I'm just overthinking stuff :p
create an illusio?!? omg that would put things into a weird perspective well heres a SPOILER shaun confirms her death in revelations and rebecca and william aswell END SPOILER

LightRey
02-07-2012, 06:33 PM
I still don't know what to think about Lucy's death ... If you take a look at all the info they've given us the logical thing to think is that she really died.
But on the other hand: things aren't alway what they seem to be in AC. So there might still be a chance that she's alive.
A lot of people say that Juno made Desmond stab Lucy because she was a traitor (supported by the leaked audio).
I want to add 2 things here:
1) In the leaked audio they say Lucy was a double agent working for the templars. But what if she wasn't? And she just made the templars believe she was as a double agent?
By doing this she good easily provide the assassins with all the equipment they need for the animus.
2) The reason why Juno forced Desmond to stab her (or create the illusion) could be that they just needed Desmond to go in a coma and the black room so he could find the synch nexus.
If he didn't stab Lucy (or thought he did), he wouldn't have gone into shock and coma, he wouldn't have gone in the black room, meet 16, find the synch nexus, ... When Desmond wakes up from
his coma he says: Now I know what to do. So if he didn't went into coma he wouldn't have know what to do. And what is the best way to make someone go into shock? Make him (think) stab
the woman he loves...

Or maybe I'm just overthinking stuff :p

If that were the case, why not inform Desmond? Why didn't William say anything about it (as he is the Grand Master apparently)? Furthermore, why kill Lucy to get Desmond into a coma? If the apple can affect him to such an extent that he could be forced to stab Lucy, surely it could simply force him into a coma in a way that doesn't require another Assassin dying.

Also, we have already established that her being stabbed cannot be an illusion. Aside from the fact that the devs confirmed she was indeed dead, the various conversations Desmond hears in ACR confirm it as well. One could assume those are just part of some "dream", but that would bring into question the various other bits of information they provided that are not related to Lucy's death and thus make it a weird and confusing part of the story and thus it is unlikely.

You're actually underthinking stuff.
I don't believe there's such a thing as "overthinking". Rather, I think that such a term is used when people start thinking of something and actually don't fully think it through.

GLHS
02-07-2012, 09:37 PM
Again......-__- I am sooooooooo tired of these ridiculous theories that everybody just repeating. Nobody is saying anything new. Seriously, if you're not gonna read the thread then don't post in it. This is so f-ing annoying now. Shut up. It was confirmed she is dead. End of story. No illusions. No lies. No hiding things. No dreams. I am not gonna keep repeating myself to every uniformed person that wanders into this thread b/c they have the same stupid BS to contribute as everybody else that thinks she still magically alive or at least could be. And maybe next we'll see the magical fairies with pixy dust and a talking unicorn that tells you she's dead and can't come back in a super sad voice in AC3! Wouldn't that be awesome?! :rolleyes:

naran6142
02-07-2012, 10:55 PM
I still don't know what to think about Lucy's death ... If you take a look at all the info they've given us the logical thing to think is that she really died.
But on the other hand: things aren't alway what they seem to be in AC. So there might still be a chance that she's alive.
A lot of people say that Juno made Desmond stab Lucy because she was a traitor (supported by the leaked audio).
I want to add 2 things here:
1) In the leaked audio they say Lucy was a double agent working for the templars. But what if she wasn't? And she just made the templars believe she was as a double agent?
By doing this she good easily provide the assassins with all the equipment they need for the animus.
2) The reason why Juno forced Desmond to stab her (or create the illusion) could be that they just needed Desmond to go in a coma and the black room so he could find the synch nexus.
If he didn't stab Lucy (or thought he did), he wouldn't have gone into shock and coma, he wouldn't have gone in the black room, meet 16, find the synch nexus, ... When Desmond wakes up from
his coma he says: Now I know what to do. So if he didn't went into coma he wouldn't have know what to do. And what is the best way to make someone go into shock? Make him (think) stab
the woman he loves...

Or maybe I'm just overthinking stuff :p

Desmond didn't really seem that sad to me... not saying he wasn't, just it didn't seem like full mental break down (i would have loved to see desmond have a break down but oh well)

i agree with Rey and Dx, the apple probably force desmond into a coma and TWCB had another reason for killing off lucy

goclo822
02-08-2012, 07:44 AM
Again......-__- I am sooooooooo tired of these ridiculous theories that everybody just repeating. Nobody is saying anything new. Seriously, if you're not gonna read the thread then don't post in it. This is so f-ing annoying now. Shut up. It was confirmed she is dead. End of story. No illusions. No lies. No hiding things. No dreams. I am not gonna keep repeating myself to every uniformed person that wanders into this thread b/c they have the same stupid BS to contribute as everybody else that thinks she still magically alive or at least could be. And maybe next we'll see the magical fairies with pixy dust and a talking unicorn that tells you she's dead and can't come back in a super sad voice in AC3! Wouldn't that be awesome?! :rolleyes:
I don't understand why you are so close minded to the fact that she could be back. Just because "the devs said so", doesn't make it true. They could be lying to get us off the trail. The devs have also stated that they are done with Subject 16, which we know for a fact they are not. What the devs say isn't always a clear cut confirmation. AC is the kind of thing where anything can happen. Maybe the devs are telling the truth but are hiding a twist somewhere in it. To say that there is positively absolutely no way that Lucy could possibly still be alive/will be back/still has storyline left would be closed minded. It is perfectly ok for speculation to continue on this matter when we STILL have no straight out answers as to what happened and why. Speculation is what the forums are for so I don't understand why you believe we should all stop posting in this thread if we don't agree that death is the only option for Lucy. Yes there is strong evidence to suggest that Lucy is dead as dead can be but there is also evidence that she could still be alive. Heck maybe we'll have both and she'll be dead but back in some way, whether that be through resurrection or flashbacks. There is an endless mound of possibilities and that is why we are still here speculating 2 years later.


Desmond didn't really seem that sad to me... not saying he wasn't, just it didn't seem like full mental break down (i would have loved to see desmond have a break down but oh well)

i agree with Rey and Dx, the apple probably force desmond into a coma and TWCB had another reason for killing off lucy
I personally think he did have a break down, hence the coma. Also when Subject 16 mentioned the funeral, he broke down then as well. He didn't really have time for anymore of a break down then that and I think we'll see more in AC3.

ElTORO713
02-08-2012, 08:03 AM
Yeah this has to end most likely she is dead and if she was a Templar so what she is dead man nothing can bring her back and I dont think someone could survive a cut that deep its highly illogical but if they are trying to add a little twist just go with it and wait in the end you will find out

GLHS
02-08-2012, 09:14 AM
I don't understand why you are so close minded to the fact that she could be back. Just because "the devs said so", doesn't make it true. They could be lying to get us off the trail. The devs have also stated that they are done with Subject 16, which we know for a fact they are not. What the devs say isn't always a clear cut confirmation. AC is the kind of thing where anything can happen. Maybe the devs are telling the truth but are hiding a twist somewhere in it. To say that there is positively absolutely no way that Lucy could possibly still be alive/will be back/still has storyline left would be closed minded. It is perfectly ok for speculation to continue on this matter when we STILL have no straight out answers as to what happened and why. Speculation is what the forums are for so I don't understand why you believe we should all stop posting in this thread if we don't agree that death is the only option for Lucy. Yes there is strong evidence to suggest that Lucy is dead as dead can be but there is also evidence that she could still be alive. Heck maybe we'll have both and she'll be dead but back in some way, whether that be through resurrection or flashbacks. There is an endless mound of possibilities and that is why we are still here speculating 2 years later.


I personally think he did have a break down, hence the coma. Also when Subject 16 mentioned the funeral, he broke down then as well. He didn't really have time for anymore of a break down then that and I think we'll see more in AC3.

I'm gonna say this again........................-__- It is not closed-mindedness. It's called common sense. Looking at the proof that's sitting right in front of all of you from the people that made the f*cking game. We have all been over this issue countless times in this thread. I have detailed precise details on why she is dead. The devs didn't just confirm it. He answered it out of his own free will. There was no specific question about Lucy at all. If he wanted to hide the fact that she is still alive in some way, he wouldn't have mentioned her at all. He wouldn't have said that the question of her death was already answered in Revelations. Do they say she may still be alive in Revelations? No. They says she's dead. There's your answer. There is not one shred of evidence to support her being alive and all of you going off the lack of evidence is just asinine. He also said they will answer why she was killed. Normally, nobody uses the word killed unless that person is dead. Again, he did not have to say this. He could've given a "beating around the bush" answer, or not said anything at all. I am not repeating every godd@mn f*cking word I say to every f*cking person. This is pathetic and a waste of time. I am done here. All of you will get your answers, but you will still say that she is somehow alive by magical fairies. I am making no more contributions to this thread or any others that discuss her death. I'm finished with the subject entirely. Please read this, but do not reply to it, as you're only making things worse.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 09:52 AM
The thing that I can't understand here is how Clay knows about Lucy's death, how can a program inside a machine be aware of recent events, how can he know about the death of someone who died so recently. Something very strange is going on. Or maybe Ubisoft didn't even thought about this and considered that Clay knowing about Lucy's death was absolutely normal.

dxsxhxcx
02-08-2012, 01:00 PM
The thing that I can't understand here is how Clay knows about Lucy's death, how can a program inside a machine be aware of recent events, how can he know about the death of someone who died so recently. Something very strange is going on. Or maybe Ubisoft didn't even thought about this and considered that Clay knowing about Lucy's death was absolutely normal.

I think he was able to listen the conversation from the outside the same way Desmond does in ACR, or he knows what'll happen in the future...

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 01:06 PM
I think he was able to listen the conversation from the outside the same way Desmond does in ACR, or he knows what'll happen in the future...

Problem is, it was Clay who first informed Desmond that Lucy was death, he was the first one who talked about her death, the conversations came later on. This is really, really strange.

dxsxhxcx
02-08-2012, 01:12 PM
Problem is, it was Clay who first informed Desmond that Lucy was death, he was the first one who talked about her death, the conversations came later on. This is really, really strange.

Desmond spent some time in the animus doing nothing before he goes to the Black Room, probably during this moment S16 was able to listen to what the others were talking about outside...

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 01:18 PM
Desmond spent some time in the animus doing nothing before he goes to the Black Room, probably during this moment S16 was able to listen to what the others were talking about outside...

That is a very lazy and lame explanation man, no offense to you. And how in the hell can Clay hear what Desmond hears. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

POP1Fan
02-08-2012, 01:25 PM
The thing that I can't understand here is how Clay knows about Lucy's death, how can a program inside a machine be aware of recent events, how can he know about the death of someone who died so recently. Something very strange is going on. Or maybe Ubisoft didn't even thought about this and considered that Clay knowing about Lucy's death was absolutely normal.
Since Clay is part of the Animus he could have read Desomnd's mind and see the moment he stabbed her and realise she died.Asuming by the fact that Lucy was already buried,a fact that Desomond didin't knew, and Clay told Des he can get "just in time for Lucy's funeral".This shows that more or less Clay only knows thing that Desomd knows about what happens outside, excet of course the huge conspiracy he is on in his glyphs and all.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 01:33 PM
Since Clay is part of the Animus he could have read Desmond's mind and see the moment he stabbed her and realize she died.Assuming by the fact that Lucy was already buried,a fact that Desmond didn't knew, and Clay told Des he can get "just in time for Lucy's funeral". This shows that more or less Clay only knows thing that Desmond knows about what happens outside, except of course the huge conspiracy he is on in his glyphs and all.

I'm sorry but we have no way to prove that is possible,and I just don't see how he can read Desmond's memories, it's impossible for Clay to read Desmond's memories, according to how the Animus functions, Clay would have to be Desmond's son, or a descendant, and clearly, he isn't.

POP1Fan
02-08-2012, 01:37 PM
I'm sorry but we have no way to prove that is possible,and I just don't see how he can read Desmond's memories.

Well he is part of the Animus, a program whitin a program that reads memories...of course I don't think this one is either and it was just a developer slip in the game but it's not that huge and it can get past over it.I don't even think it needs an explination + it is off-topic in this thread.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 01:39 PM
Well he is part of the Animus, a program whitin a program that reads memories...of course I don't think this one is either and it was just a developer slip in the game but it's not that huge and it can get past over it.I don't even think it needs an explination + it is off-topic in this thread.

It's impossible for Clay to read Desmond's memories, according to how the Animus functions, Clay would have to be Desmond's son, or a descendant, and clearly, he isn't.

How in the hell is this irrelevant, so, a program inside a machine is aware of world events, he knows Lucy is dead, and you think this is irrelevant??

POP1Fan
02-08-2012, 01:51 PM
It's impossible for Clay to read Desmond's memories, according to how the Animus functions, Clay would have to be Desmond's son, or a descendant, and clearly, he isn't.
Think of it this way.Desomnd relives the memories inside the Animus, inside the Animus there is Clay.Clay is a spyware inside the Animus, he can see whatever Desmond remembers, he can manipulate the Animus how he wants just like he did so to give the glyphs in the AC2 and Brotherhood.To put it this way Clay is an observer, he can watch but can't act himself because he is just a softwear.If Desomnd has memories in his genes that the Animus decripts Clay can see them regardless of being related to him.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 02:07 PM
Think of it this way.Desmond relives the memories inside the Animus, inside the Animus there is Clay.Clay is a spyware inside the Animus, he can see whatever Desmond remembers, he can manipulate the Animus how he wants just like he did so to give the glyphs in the AC2 and Brotherhood.To put it this way Clay is an observer, he can watch but can't act himself because he is just a softwear.If Desomnd has memories in his genes that the Animus decripts Clay can see them regardless of being related to him.

That's too far-fetched but look, even if that is possible, Desmond killed Lucy outside the Animus, there's no way Clay could have seen this memory, because if he's a observer of what Desmond's watching, he can only watch what Desmond sees in the Animus, and as far as we know, we never watched Lucy's death in the Animus, so Clay can only see what Desmond sees. There is no way in hell Clay can watch Desmond's memories.

Serrachio
02-08-2012, 02:10 PM
That's too far-fetched but look, even if that is possible, Desmond killed Lucy outside the Animus, there's no way Clay could have seen this memory, because if he's a observer of what Desmond's watching, he can only watch what Desmond sees in the Animus, and as far as we know, we never watched Lucy's death in the Animus, so Clay can only see what Desmond sees. There is no way in hell Clay can watch Desmond's memories.

Unless Clay combs through the unconscious Desmond's memories when he is re-inserted back into the Animus, considering his mind is linked to the machine.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 02:19 PM
Unless Clay combs through the unconscious Desmond's memories when he is re-inserted back into the Animus, considering his mind is linked to the machine.

He can comb all he wants, but there is no way he can read them, he is not a direct descendant of Desmond ( Desmond doesn't even have a son, but that doesn't even matter here), so there is no way he can read them, that's just impossible, as far as we know of course.

Niiwa
02-08-2012, 02:23 PM
He can comb all he wants, but there is no way he can read them, he is not a direct descendant of Desmond ( Desmond doesn't even have a son, but that doesn't even matter here), so there is no way he can read them, that's just impossible, as far as we know of course.
He is a part of the animus, like a spyware. Desmond is connected to the Animus. Ofc Clay can see and know whats going on, as it's inside Desmond's head, his past = the animus can show that.
Just like the Animus showed us his past, as his ancestors.
It should be easy to see, even for blondies.

POP1Fan
02-08-2012, 02:28 PM
Unless Clay combs through the unconscious Desmond's memories when he is re-inserted back into the Animus, considering his mind is linked to the machine.

Exactly what i meant. It's hard to make a point in a foreign language. :D

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 02:41 PM
He is a part of the animus, like a spyware. Desmond is connected to the Animus. Ofc Clay can see and know whats going on, as it's inside Desmond's head, his past = the animus can show that.
Just like the Animus showed us his past, as his ancestors.
It should be easy to see, even for blondies.

Blondies?? WTF??

Look mate, do you know why Desmond can relieve the memories of Altair and Ezio? Because they are Desmond's ancestors, they are direct ancestors of his.

Desmond probably doesn't even have any descendants, at least yet, but that doesn't even matter here because there is no way Clay is Desmond's son (lol), Clay is even older than Desmond.

Clay could only read Desmond's memories if he was a descendant of Desmond. This should be easy to understand, even for blondies.

GLHS
02-08-2012, 02:41 PM
Clay is an AI inside the Animus, so it is quite likely that he can see things that the Animus sees. It's not that difficult really. He's not human anymore, but his essence is still inside the machine....or was until he saved Desmond anyway. He was trapped in the Black Room for a long period of time, and if anybody remembers, he also knew that Desmond was uncovering the rifts in Brotherhood, as he kept talking to him through the Animus. Now that Desmond's subconscious is in the Black Room, he's able to see a full bodied creation of the AI and speak with it.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 02:55 PM
Clay is an AI inside the Animus, so it is quite likely that he can see things that the Animus sees. It's not that difficult really. He's not human anymore, but his essence is still inside the machine....or was until he saved Desmond anyway. He was trapped in the Black Room for a long period of time, and if anybody remembers, he also knew that Desmond was uncovering the rifts in Brotherhood, as he kept talking to him through the Animus. Now that Desmond's subconscious is in the Black Room, he's able to see a full bodied creation of the AI and speak with it.

Probably, problem is, we never saw Lucy's death in the Animus, so there is no way he can be aware of her death that way.

mustash
02-08-2012, 03:03 PM
It's impossible for Clay to read Desmond's memories, according to how the Animus functions, Clay would have to be Desmond's son, or a descendant, and clearly, he isn't.

How in the hell is this irrelevant, so, a program inside a machine is aware of world events, he knows Lucy is dead, and you think this is irrelevant??

It's not impossible, the guy above me has already said, he was a program, not the actual living and breathing (well dead technically) Clay. So, as a program, of course he can access Desmonds memories, he interfaces with the Animus and his existance is facilitated BY the Animus. That means, for all intents and purposes, Clay is an extension of the Animus. Very simple to get.
As for world events, he likely listened in in the moments following Desmond being put into the Animus. Desmond had slipped into a coma and was unconcsious for a little while, but 16 was already present in the Animus, given the events of Brotherhood.

Edit: Ah, GLHS just essentially said what I said

GLHS
02-08-2012, 03:27 PM
Probably, problem is, we never saw Lucy's death in the Animus, so there is no way he can be aware of her death that way.

It's in Desmond's subconscious. So it's entirely possible that Clay knew from seeing the fragmented memories of Desmond in the Black Room. Like I said, seeing what the Animus sees.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 03:27 PM
It's not impossible, the guy above me has already said, he was a program, not the actual living and breathing (well dead technically) Clay. So, as a program, of course he can access Desmonds memories, he interfaces with the Animus and his existance is facilitated BY the Animus. That means, for all intents and purposes, Clay is an extension of the Animus. Very simple to get.
As for world events, he likely listened in in the moments following Desmond being put into the Animus. Desmond had slipped into a coma and was unconcsious for a little while, but 16 was already present in the Animus, given the events of Brotherhood.

Edit: Ah, GLHS just essentially said what I said

Oh my god, how in the hell can a program hear something? Do you people even read what you write??

Niiwa
02-08-2012, 03:31 PM
Oh my god, how in the hell can a program hear something? Do you people even read what you write??

Play the game again mate, the whole serie. Then you know :)

Taken from Assassin's Creed Wiki, under Clay Kaczmarek; "After his alleged suicide, Clay continued to exist as an AI recreation of his personality within the Animus. As such, he was able to manipulate much of the Animus' programming from within to aid another Animus subject, Desmond Miles. "

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 03:33 PM
It's in Desmond's subconscious. So it's entirely possible that Clay knew from seeing the fragmented memories of Desmond in the Black Room. Like I said, seeing what the Animus sees.

But why are you supposing that Clay can see Desmond's fragmented memories, was it mentioned somewhere else that he can do that or is that just a simple assumption that you made?

Serrachio
02-08-2012, 03:35 PM
Oh my god, how in the hell can a program hear something? Do you people even read what you write??

Clay is a living program. He cloned himself over onto the Animus before his physical form died, so he's able to exist within the machine. Because he's been in the Animus for so long, he's learned the ins and outs of it quite well.

When Desmond's mind was re-inserted back into the Animus, it must have chronicled his memories since his last use, and Clay peered into them like looking into a filing cabinet.

It's not that we "don't read what we write", it's more like you can't comprehend what we're trying to tell you.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 03:36 PM
Play the game again mate, the whole serie. Then you know :)

Taken from Assassin's Creed Wiki, under Clay Kaczmarek; "After his alleged suicide, Clay continued to exist as an AI recreation of his personality within the Animus. As such, he was able to manipulate much of the Animus' programming from within to aid another Animus subject, Desmond Miles. "

LOL that doesn't prove that he can hear and be aware of outside events, it only states that he maintained the knowledge he possessed before he died, and maybe learn some things from the Animus.

Niiwa
02-08-2012, 03:37 PM
LOL that doesn't prove that he can hear and be aware of outside events, it only states that he maintained the knowledge he possessed before he died, and maybe learn some things from the Animus.

D'oh...

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 03:39 PM
Clay is a living program. He cloned himself over onto the Animus before his physical form died, so he's able to exist within the machine. Because he's been in the Animus for so long, he's learned the ins and outs of it quite well.

When Desmond's mind was re-inserted back into the Animus, it must have chronicled his memories since his last use, and Clay peered into them like looking into a filing cabinet.

It's not that we "don't read what we write", it's more like you can't comprehend what we're trying to tell you.

That is a supposition that you are making without even knowing if that's correct. Was it mentioned in the game he can read Desmond's memories, was it mentioned in the game that he's aware of Lucy's death because he saw Desmond's memories. I don't remember that, and if I'm wrong, please present me with the evidence that suggests the contrary.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 03:41 PM
D'oh...

D'oh what?? You were the one saying that 16 could be aware of world events, or hear people talk near the Animus and that quote you posted proved the contrary.

Niiwa
02-08-2012, 03:43 PM
D'oh what?? You were the one saying that 16 could be aware of world events, or hear people talk near the Animus and that quote you posted proved the contrary.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Clay_Kaczmarek
Read it all my dear boy. It's clear facts we're telling you :)

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 03:46 PM
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Clay_Kaczmarek
Read it all my dear boy. It's clear facts we're telling you :)

Why don't you redirect me to a cutscene or something from a Assassin's Creed game that proves your point huh??

First you advise me to play the games again, now you send me to the wiki.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 03:52 PM
Taken from the Assassin's Creed wikia:

"Though physically dead, his "essence" had been absorbed into the system, allowing him to interact with the users , and act as a third person spectator ; effectively letting him see everything that went on inside the Animus

This just proves my point. He can only interact with the users and watch what the users see, he can only see what the users are relieving, this doesn't say that he can relive others memories all by himself, and remember that you never saw Desmond reliving Lucy's death in the Animus, you only saw Desmond killing Lucy outside the Animus.

Niiwa
02-08-2012, 03:57 PM
Why don't you redirect me to a cutscene or something from a Assassin's Creed game that proves your point huh??

First you advise me to play the games again, now you send me to the wiki.

Yeah, I would still advise you playing the games again, cause it's pretty simple.
Lets say it in a different way. A computer gets a spyware, a spyware will get all your details on the computer. Everything.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWFIUB6pZ8Q 2:30, you might look it all through.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 03:59 PM
Yeah, I would still advise you playing the games again, cause it's pretty simple.
Lets say it in a different way. A computer gets a spyware, a spyware will get all your details on the computer. Everything.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWFIUB6pZ8Q 2:30, you might look it all through.

"Though physically dead, his "essence" had been absorbed into the system, allowing him to interact with the users , and act as a third person spectator ; effectively letting him see everything that went on inside the Animus

This just proves my point. He can only interact with the users and watch what the users see, he can only see what the users are reliving, this doesn't say that he can relive others memories all by himself, and remember that you never saw Desmond reliving Lucy's death in the Animus, you only saw Desmond killing Lucy outside the Animus.

Niiwa
02-08-2012, 04:00 PM
"Though physically dead, his "essence" had been absorbed into the system, allowing him to interact with the users , and act as a third person spectator ; effectively letting him see everything that went on inside the Animus

This just proves my point. He can only interact with the users and watch what the users see, he can only see what the users are reliving, this doesn't say that he can relive others memories all by himself, and remember that you never saw Desmond reliving Lucy's death in the Animus, you only saw Desmond killing Lucy outside the Animus.

Mate, just see the link. :)

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 04:04 PM
Mate, just see the link. :)

LOOOL. Great way to just ignore what I wrote, but please dear sir, try to respond to what I said, if you can of course.

LightRey
02-08-2012, 04:33 PM
Taken from the Assassin's Creed wikia:

"Though physically dead, his "essence" had been absorbed into the system, allowing him to interact with the users , and act as a third person spectator ; effectively letting him see everything that went on inside the Animus

This just proves my point. He can only interact with the users and watch what the users see, he can only see what the users are relieving, this doesn't say that he can relive others memories all by himself, and remember that you never saw Desmond reliving Lucy's death in the Animus, you only saw Desmond killing Lucy outside the Animus.

Actually, he can relive memories all by himself. He found his own synch nexus when he was already dead.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 04:37 PM
Actually, he can relive memories all by himself. He found his own synch nexus when he was already dead.

I meant he can't relive other people's ( who aren't directly related to him) memories all by himself.

By the way, when did he said he found his own synch nexus??

LightRey
02-08-2012, 04:41 PM
I meant he can't relive other people's ( who aren't directly related to him) memories all by himself.

By the way, when did he said he found his own synch nexus??

At the very beginning of ACR.

When S16 was explaining to Desmond what it was, Desmond asked how he knew all that, to which he replied that he'd done it himself, but his body was already "worm food" by then.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 04:44 PM
At the very beginning of ACR.

When S16 was explaining to Desmond what it was, Desmond asked how he knew all that, to which he replied that he'd done it himself, but his body was already "worm food" by then.

How do you think Clay was aware of Lucy's death?

LightRey
02-08-2012, 04:48 PM
How do you think Clay was aware of Lucy's death?

Could be through several ways. It could be that the animus can record sounds from the outside (as a ways to communicate with the subject) and he simply overheard people talking about it or maybe he just peeked inside Desmond's fractured consciousness while he was inside the animus. In ACR the animus isn't just helping him relive memories, it's helping keeping his entire mind together.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 04:51 PM
Could be through several ways. It could be that the animus can record sounds from the outside (as a ways to communicate with the subject) and he simply overheard people talking about it or maybe he just peeked inside Desmond's fractured consciousness while he was inside the animus. In ACR the animus isn't just helping him relive memories, it's helping keeping his entire mind together.

Yeah, but that's just speculation, we don't even know if something like that can happen, just like speculations about Lucy's fate ( according to some people, if the game doesn't point out that way, it's not going to happen) so that's just not good enough.

And like I said before, we only saw Desmond killing Lucy outside the Animus, we never saw Desmond reliving that particular memory inside the Animus, and Clay can't just relive other people's memories all by himself, he's just a third person spectator, he sees what the users are reliving, and as far as we know, Desmond didn't relive that memory inside the Animus.

LightRey
02-08-2012, 04:58 PM
Yeah, but that's just speculation, we don't even know if something like that can happen, just like speculations about Lucy's fate ( according to some people, if the game doesn't point out that way, it's not going to happen) so that's just not good enough.

And like I said before, we only saw Desmond killing Lucy outside the Animus, we never saw Desmond reliving that particular memory inside the Animus, and Clay can't just relive other people's memories all by himself, he's just a third person spectator, he sees what the users are reliving, and as far as we know, Desmond didn't relive that memory inside the Animus.

The fact of the matter is that we know S16 knows and we know that he is in fact dead. We also know that Clay is much more than a mere spectator. Just because he can watch stuff doesn't mean he can't do stuff. In fact, we very well know that he can do stuff. We know that he found his own synch nexus, we know that he could help Desmond by keeping the Animus busy while he was away from the "Desmond partition" and we know that he could even protect Desmond from being deleted along with Animus Island. We also know that basically all of Desmond's cognitive functions are being simulated by the Animus in ACR and we can deduce that the animus doesn't need a continuous connection to a subject's DNA to have them relive memories as S16 was able to relive memories he'd never relived before when he found his synch nexus. This implies that the information of at least a significant part of a subject's DNA is stored on the animus. If that is the case, then S16 could simply access a part of Desmond's stored DNA and relive it.

Ergo, he most likely can relive the genetic memories of other subjects.

Also, the DDS (from Project Legacy) is exactly the kind of device that allows people to relive the genetic memories of others, without said memories ever having been relived by any subject.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 05:06 PM
The fact of the matter is that we know S16 knows and we know that he is in fact dead. We also know that Clay is much more than a mere spectator. Just because he can watch stuff doesn't mean he can't do stuff. In fact, we very well know that he can do stuff. We know that he found his own synch nexus, we know that he could help Desmond by keeping the Animus busy while he was away from the "Desmond partition" and we know that he could even protect Desmond from being deleted along with Animus Island. We also know that basically all of Desmond's cognitive functions are being simulated by the Animus in ACR and we can deduce that the animus doesn't need a continuous connection to a subject's DNA to have them relive memories as S16 was able to relive memories he'd never relived before when he found his synch nexus. This implies that the information of at least a significant part of a subject's DNA is stored on the animus. If that is the case, then S16 could simply access a part of Desmond's stored DNA and relive it.

Ergo, he most likely can relive the genetic memories of other subjects.

Also, the DDS (from Project Legacy) is exactly the kind of device that allows people to relive the genetic memories of others, without said memories ever having been relived by any subject.

But the DDS is a different device than the Animus, so we can't use it as an example here.

LightRey
02-08-2012, 05:09 PM
But the DDS is a different device than the Animus, so we can't use it as an example here.

Actually, we can. The DDS, or Data Dump Scanner, is simply a device that takes "junk data" from the Animus, scans it for possibly significant memories and then has "random" subjects relive said memories. It still uses the same principles to access the memories and I see no reason to assume the Animus couldn't allow S16 to at least examine Desmond's memories.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 05:51 PM
Actually, we can. The DDS, or Data Dump Scanner, is simply a device that takes "junk data" from the Animus, scans it for possibly significant memories and then has "random" subjects relive said memories. It still uses the same principles to access the memories and I see no reason to assume the Animus couldn't allow S16 to at least examine Desmond's memories.

The DDS is a Templar device, what makes you think the Assassins are using it, or have it implemented in the Animus Desmond is using. I don't think the Animus Desmond is using have the DDS program in it, there is no significance for the Assassins, at least at the moment, they could mention it but they never did.

I don't think the Assassins are even aware of it.

POP1Fan
02-08-2012, 06:40 PM
The DDS is a Templar device, what makes you think the Assassins are using it, or have it implemented in the Animus Desmond is using. I don't think the Animus Desmond is using have the DDS program in it, there is no significance for the Assassins, at least at the moment, they could mention it but they never did.

I don't think the Assassins are even aware of it.

isn't the Animus a Templar device too?

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 06:42 PM
isn't the Animus a Templar device too?

That's not even the point. It was merely an observation.

LightRey
02-08-2012, 07:34 PM
The DDS is a Templar device, what makes you think the Assassins are using it, or have it implemented in the Animus Desmond is using. I don't think the Animus Desmond is using have the DDS program in it, there is no significance for the Assassins, at least at the moment, they could mention it but they never did.

I don't think the Assassins are even aware of it.

I am not. I am merely explaining that there is no reason to assume that the DDS does anything different from the animus regarding the examination of the genetic memories.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-08-2012, 11:19 PM
The DDS is a Templar device, what makes you think the Assassins are using it, or have it implemented in the Animus Desmond is using. I don't think the Animus Desmond is using have the DDS program in it, there is no significance for the Assassins, at least at the moment, they could mention it but they never did.

I don't think the Assassins are even aware of it.
to my knowledge all computers used by desmond's "crew" are abstergo computers, the animus is a templar machine(the data core that rebecca gets is from lucy that comes from the animus in abstergo), and in brotherhood(speculation;it could be an easter egg then again...why) lucy has the dds open on her computer and knows that ABSTERGO is training "assassins". I believe the assassins are aware :D

LightRey
02-08-2012, 11:27 PM
to my knowledge all computers used by desmond's "crew" are abstergo computers, the animus is a templar machine(the data core that rebecca gets is from lucy that comes from the animus in abstergo), and in brotherhood(speculation;it could be an easter egg then again...why) lucy has the dds open on her computer and knows that ABSTERGO is training "assassins". I believe the assassins are aware :D

Very true and even if they're not aware of the DDS, they are aware of the Templar animus training program as Lucy informs Desmond about it in ACB. Now that I bring that up, that program also allows people to relive the genetic memories of others and it uses Animi.

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 11:34 PM
to my knowledge all computers used by desmond's "crew" are abstergo computers, the animus is a templar machine(the data core that rebecca gets is from lucy that comes from the animus in abstergo), and in brotherhood(speculation;it could be an easter egg then again...why) lucy has the dds open on her computer and knows that ABSTERGO is training "assassins". I believe the assassins are aware :D

That's just an easter egg like you said, nothing more.

Still, it doesn't prove Desmond's Animus has some kind of a DDS device. No one of the Assassins ever mentioned it one single time, so it's way more possible that they are not even aware of it.

The DDS records "junk data" so I don't see how such a traumatic event like killing a friend is considered "junk data", so I don't even think the DDS is even important to what we are discussing here.

dxsxhxcx
02-08-2012, 11:46 PM
Desmond and S16's consciousness are trapped in the same place (the black room), so being at the same place, both probably have some kind of link with Desmond body while his body still is in the animus, otherwise Desmond wouldn't be able to return to his body once he achieved the Sync Nexus, so IMO this is what makes possible for Desmond AND S16 to hear the conversation of people outside the animus...

anyway, someone should suggest to Escoblades to ask this question on his next podcast with the Devs/Writers... :P

Gil_217
02-08-2012, 11:51 PM
Desmond and S16's consciousness are trapped in the same place (the black room), so being at the same place, both probably have some kind of link with Desmond body while his body still is in the animus, otherwise Desmond wouldn't be able to return to his body once he achieved the Sync Nexus...

Is that your "explanation" for Clay being aware of Lucy's death?

LightRey
02-08-2012, 11:52 PM
That's just an easter egg like you said, nothing more.

Still, it doesn't prove Desmond's Animus has some kind of a DDS device. No one of the Assassins ever mentioned it one single time, so it's way more possible that they are not even aware of it.

The DDS records "junk data" so I don't see how such a traumatic event like killing a friend is considered "junk data", so I don't even think the DDS is even important to what we are discussing here.

It doesn't need a DDS device. The DDS is just a scanner. It doesn't record junk data, it analyzes junk data. The data are all from the Animus. The only thing the DDS does is take leftover Animus data of likely busy or deceased subjects and has others relive them.

S16 doesn't really need a DDS. He just needs to access the data of Desmond's own genetic memory, which is very likely stored on the Animus.

Acrimonious_Nin
02-09-2012, 12:12 AM
That's just an easter egg like you said, nothing more.

Still, it doesn't prove Desmond's Animus has some kind of a DDS device. No one of the Assassins ever mentioned it one single time, so it's way more possible that they are not even aware of it.

The DDS records "junk data" so I don't see how such a traumatic event like killing a friend is considered "junk data", so I don't even think the DDS is even important to what we are discussing here.
hmm.. I think you don't get it when i say that the data core comes from an ABSTERGO machine...tell me the animi that are inside ABSTERGO that use the dds are the same ones that desmond uses in ac1 right? we can make an inference that even though Desmond is in a different machine (but has the same memory core of the ones in ABSTERGO) could hint to the fact that if the dds was in all old animus then its in the "new" machine the assassins have... plus didn't lucy tell everyone that ABSTERGO is training assassins through the animi(so does that mean that they are aware or were they drunk when she said that?) plus for speculation purposes in AC:R when going through desmond's journey levels the voice says "...memory leak detected"... well oh boy that sounds like data dumping somewhere right?

twenty_glyphs
02-09-2012, 12:35 AM
I really don't think the DDS is that well-thought out right now, so any speculations by us are probably just that. I would recommend chalking up the DDS as a narrative device that allows lots of "subjects" (Facebook users) to relive many memories from lots of different subjects. Based on the little info given on the DDS and Project Legacy, it seems that Abstergo has large amounts of farmed genetic memory data from somewhere (hence the "data dump"), and they need human subjects to experience the memories in order to make any sense of them. I would say though that the DDS is not analyzing "junk" data, since many of the events in Project Legacy are extremely important, both in the lives of the subjects of the memories and in the grand scheme of history. Abstergo's Animus in AC1 also showed plenty of boring, mundane memories from Alta´r before they could get to the important memories.

LightRey
02-09-2012, 01:55 AM
I really don't think the DDS is that well-thought out right now, so any speculations by us are probably just that. I would recommend chalking up the DDS as a narrative device that allows lots of "subjects" (Facebook users) to relive many memories from lots of different subjects. Based on the little info given on the DDS and Project Legacy, it seems that Abstergo has large amounts of farmed genetic memory data from somewhere (hence the "data dump"), and they need human subjects to experience the memories in order to make any sense of them. I would say though that the DDS is not analyzing "junk" data, since many of the events in Project Legacy are extremely important, both in the lives of the subjects of the memories and in the grand scheme of history. Abstergo's Animus in AC1 also showed plenty of boring, mundane memories from Alta´r before they could get to the important memories.

Regardless, we know that people can relive other people's genetic memories by use of an Animus (see Templar training program) and we know that S16 was capable of reliving genetic memories even though his body was already dead. That alone makes it very possible for him to have figured out Lucy was dead by looking at Desmond's own genetic memory.

Other than that there is always the possibility that the fact that Desmond's mind was basically downloaded (a very crude way to put it, but close enough) onto the Animus may already have been enough. Maybe all S16 had to do was check out Desmond's "mind data".

GLHS
02-09-2012, 07:16 PM
Everybody's forgetting one crucial point: Obviously, we don't know all the details about the DLC yet, but it is a very safe bet that Desmond relives Clay's stored memories that are still in the Black Room after he's deleted. If Desmond can do that, then there's absolutely no reason why Clay couldn't have done it before. As the game suggests, the fragments of memories are stored data files within the Animus. Clay was a computer programming genius, and it was pretty easy to hack the glyphs and truth videos, as well as himself, into the Animus, even under pretty heavy psychosis. His mind was quite far gone by that point. It's ridiculous to assume that after he'd found his synch nexus and his mind was mostly repaired, (some damage done can't be repaired no matter how hard you try) that he couldn't have gotten into Desmond's files with his eyes closed. It would've been extremely easy for him. Desmond doesn't have to relive the memory of killing Lucy for Clay to access it, nor do we have to see him doing it. Clay could've very well just opened the file. It's in Desmond's brain, and now in his DNA, thus is stored onto the Animus.

How do you supposed they have tapes of all of the sessions? The program in the Animus tapes them. That would be like saying that any random person couldn't go back and watch the tapes b/c they weren't related to the subject in the Animus. That's all the memory access in the DNA really is. Recordings of the ancestor's memories that you can interact with; hence "reliving." Once they're stored onto the Animus, anybody can find and open them, as long as they know how. Whether they're related on not. The only reason why relation is needed is b/c it's stored within the DNA. And it's like a code, or it is a code, actually. Once the code is deciphered (i.e. the code inside the DNA is broken and then stored onto the Animus as data files), anybody with eyes can read it.

And, It's exactly like the Rift files from AC:B. In AC2 when you put the files together, you were just piecing together a video file. But in AC:B, Clay took it one step further and the files that you were piecing together was an actual executable file that you could open and interact with, and he programed his message into it as well.

Basically, the dude was so smart that he knew more about how the Animus worked than the creators of the friggin thing. He was able to manipulate it like it was a d@mn toy. I give the guy props lol.

Gil_217
02-09-2012, 07:23 PM
Everybody's forgetting one crucial point: Obviously, we don't know all the details about the DLC yet, but it is a very safe bet that Desmond relieves Clay's stored memories that are still in the Black Room after he's deleted. If Desmond can do that, then there's absolutely no reason why Clay couldn't have done it before. As the game suggests, the fragments of memories are stored data files within the Animus. Clay was a computer programming genius, and it was pretty easy to hack the glyphs and truth videos, as well as himself, into the Animus, even under pretty heavy psychosis. His mind was quite far gone by that point. It's ridiculous to assume that after he'd found his synch nexus and his mind was mostly repaired, (some damage done can't be repaired no matter how hard you try) that he couldn't have gotten into Desmond's files with his eyes closed. It would've been extremely easy for him. Desmond doesn't have to relive the memory of killing Lucy for Clay to access it, nor do we have to see him doing it. Clay could've very well just opened the file. It's in Desmond's brain, and now in his DNA, thus is stored onto the Animus. How do you supposed they have tapes of all of the sessions? The program in the Animus tapes them. That would be like saying that any random person couldn't go back and watch the tapes b/c they weren't related to the subject in the Animus. That's all the memory access in the DNA really is. Recordings of the ancestor's memories.


Do you realize that everything in that post is pure speculations, just like the discussion we were having earlier on this thread about Lucy's fate, and you criticize me for it.

Hypocrite much??