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View Full Version : Plausibility of the hookblade



SixKeys
01-28-2012, 02:01 PM
I've seen YouTube videos of people who have created their own hidden blade that, in theory, works exactly as it does in the games (only no-one's actually tried to kill people with it as far as I'm aware :p ). I've even seen some hidden guns (using Nerf guns and the like) which, again, in theory, could technically work.

I'm not so sure about the hookblade, though. I saw one video of a kid using a home-made hookblade to do all the stuff Ezio did, but the hookblade was a big, clunky thing, not the delicate design it was in the game. The kid could support his own weight with it, but he looked about 12 to me, so he can't have weighed that much.

How plausible would it be to actually build a working hookblade, using the same design as in the game, that could support the weight of your average 30-50-year-old man?

LordWolv
01-28-2012, 03:32 PM
I don't know. Lets think about it, the mechanism originally is using that of the hidden blade, a ring that launches it. Then there's too parts, a blade that extends infront of the hook and the hook that extends infront of the blade. I sounds feasible to me.

SixKeys
01-28-2012, 05:47 PM
I don't know. Lets think about it, the mechanism originally is using that of the hidden blade, a ring that launches it. Then there's too parts, a blade that extends infront of the hook and the hook that extends infront of the blade. I sounds feasible to me.

My point was not whether the hookblade itself could be built but whether or not it could realistically do what it does in the game. Could something so small and delicate actually support the weight of a fully grown adult who constantly uses it to hack into stone walls and wooden tiles? The hidden blade and even a hidden gun mechanism have been shown to work and actually do what they were designed to do, but is the hookblade actually realistic or just a cool-looking but totally implausible tool? This is what separates ACR from the previous games to me. The gadgets keep getting more and more inventive, but perhaps also moving away from the "could actually have existed" territory and into "sure, there's no way this could work in RL but let's pretend like it could".

LightRey
01-28-2012, 06:29 PM
Problem is that the exact workings of the hookblade are unknown. Even the encyclopedia isn't very clarifying.

LordWolv
01-28-2012, 06:33 PM
If that is your question, then almost definitely no. It constantly be pulling at the whole mechanism (brace) and through that probably brake the mechanism, and possibly start pulling it off your arm.

But, we know hardly anything. Does the hook extend infront of the blade, or does the blade extend infront of the hook? This is a massive factor.

kanga 3d
01-29-2012, 04:13 AM
No it couldn't work like it is in the game. I think the steel could support the weight but the hook as it is couldnt. Also the look of the hook shows you would only be able to stab your enemy if you had an arm like the terminator. The hookblade that could support you would have to have a handle for you to get a grip or a harnass that connects to the shoulder. The way the gauntlet wrist brace is in the game it would slip right off.

The thing is though, that it looks good and adds to the game. Although first time I saw it I though WOW, then, that would never work. Then I went around just looking for and jumping on those wires. What a blast :)

Voltige2011
01-29-2012, 06:51 AM
The hookblade design seems like it could work..... for about an hour..... then you would fall to your death....
Something blocking hits (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/9/9b/ACR_hookblade_counter.png) from a trained, fully grown man, supporting the weight (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/0/06/Revelations_ZipHook.jpg) of a two hundred pound man, flip other grown men (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/8/85/Hookblade_6.png) will break. That is called physics. If it makes you feel better, the other hidden mods aren't too well designed either. A needle containing poison placed right next to a small gun barrel that can fire several shots without needing to cool down.*

Now lets talk about that mechanism (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/3/36/ACR_hookblade.png). It seems to just be an add on to a generic hidden blade. You active the blade itself like normal, a simple pull back (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/File:ACR_hookblade_attack.png) on the wrist. The problem is that the hook is longer than the hand, so its activated by moving the wrist a little to the side to activate (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/9/9b/ACR_hookblade_counter.png) the hook without the blade.** The length seems to be a combination of both (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/File:Hookblade.png) wrist movements. The angle that the hook can be changed seems to be changed via an unknown means though. Of course this is only my observation of Ubisoft's rendering of a fictional device which will most likely would have gotten thousands upon thousands of people killed. Ever wonder why Desmond's blade was so simple? As I said, "It could work", but you would die right after.

*The scenario is the barrel explodes, takes your hand with it, gets the poison lodged in the remains, and kills your from the same dancing movements you kill others with.
** Your probably losing your thumb though.

LordWolv
01-29-2012, 11:18 AM
Couldn't have explained it better myself, Voltige. :D

LightRey
01-29-2012, 01:16 PM
The hookblade design seems like it could work..... for about an hour..... then you would fall to your death....
Something blocking hits (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/9/9b/ACR_hookblade_counter.png) from a trained, fully grown man, supporting the weight (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/0/06/Revelations_ZipHook.jpg) of a two hundred pound man, flip other grown men (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/8/85/Hookblade_6.png) will break. That is called physics. If it makes you feel better, the other hidden mods aren't too well designed either. A needle containing poison placed right next to a small gun barrel that can fire several shots without needing to cool down.*

Now lets talk about that mechanism (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/3/36/ACR_hookblade.png). It seems to just be an add on to a generic hidden blade. You active the blade itself like normal, a simple pull back (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/File:ACR_hookblade_attack.png) on the wrist. The problem is that the hook is longer than the hand, so its activated by moving the wrist a little to the side to activate (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/9/9b/ACR_hookblade_counter.png) the hook without the blade.** The length seems to be a combination of both (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/File:Hookblade.png) wrist movements. The angle that the hook can be changed seems to be changed via an unknown means though. Of course this is only my observation of Ubisoft's rendering of a fictional device which will most likely would have gotten thousands upon thousands of people killed. Ever wonder why Desmond's blade was so simple? As I said, "It could work", but you would die right after.

*The scenario is the barrel explodes, takes your hand with it, gets the poison lodged in the remains, and kills your from the same dancing movements you kill others with.
** Your probably losing your thumb though.

Sorry, but that is not called physics. It would be called physics if you had taken the time to write down formulas and had done experiments. What you did is called speculation.

LordWolv
01-29-2012, 05:37 PM
Sorry, but that is not called physics. It would be called physics if you had taken the time to write down formulas and had done experiments. What you did is called speculation.
Why don't I notice these things and sound clever instead of you?
...

Voltige2011
01-30-2012, 12:05 AM
Sorry, but that is not called physics. It would be called physics if you had taken the time to write down formulas and had done experiments. What you did is called speculation.
So writing down formulas would make it suddenly become physics? How exactly would I build this hookblade if you yourself just said,"the exact workings of the hookblade are unknown"? Does it take a genius to figure out a thin rod which can be discreetly hidden can't do all of that? More importantly, did you actually say that its not physics? When I said the word physics did you see the long list of words before it that said all the things that can break it?
One more question. Which formula could possibly tell you something can do all of that?
Please respond, I'm dying to know.

xCr0wnedNorris
01-30-2012, 12:37 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lBCcRjWQJOY/Tus4OMA49II/AAAAAAAAnv0/pJ6HZ0YJ3qM/s640/Tightrope+Nuts+%2811%29.jpg

How can a steel rod support the weight of a man, you ask? How can twine support the weight of 7 people? Did you know that most often the aluminum panels on airplanes are roughly 4 millimeters thick? You don't even need physics, more of common sense, to know that the hookblade is a plausible device.

JumpInTheFire13
01-30-2012, 12:58 AM
xCr0wnedNorris has a very good point. Personally I think the hookblade itself is possible, but it would rip the persons arm off if they're jumping from huge heights. But then again, it's Ezio, he doesn't even flinch when a bullet hits a wall a foot away from his head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLtpqDbxpnU

Voltige2011
01-30-2012, 01:41 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lBCcRjWQJOY/Tus4OMA49II/AAAAAAAAnv0/pJ6HZ0YJ3qM/s640/Tightrope+Nuts+(11).jpg

How can a steel rod support the weight of a man, you ask? How can twine support the weight of 7 people? Did you know that most often the aluminum panels on airplanes are roughly 4 millimeters thick? You don't even need physics, more of common sense, to know that the hookblade is a plausible device.
Very nice example. I completely forgot about the circus. It'll either break or rip your arm off though.

The hookblade design seems like it could work..... for about an hour..... then you would fall to your death....
Something blocking hits (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/9/9b/ACR_hookblade_counter.png) from a trained, fully grown man, supporting the weight (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/0/06/Revelations_ZipHook.jpg) of a two hundred pound man, flip other grown men (http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/8/85/Hookblade_6.png)will break.
As I said, "It could work", but you would die right after.
.


@Jumpinthefire I agree completely with both top comments, especially the one about climbing the battlements after the cut-scene. Just a quick logic input though. In ACII when Ezio gets hurt he drinks medicine. Since its called synchronization in that game, it means Ezio was likely addicted to pills. Ezio never felt anything after age 20.

xCr0wnedNorris
01-30-2012, 02:11 AM
*Gasp* You could become physically injured performing acrobatic maneuvers that include falling down 5-10 stories? I didn't know that! Of course you can't do EVERYTHING Ezio does with the hookblade in the game, but that doesn't make the device any less plausible in reality (which remember, is what this entire thread is based upon).

LightRey
01-30-2012, 02:22 AM
*Gasp* You could become physically injured performing acrobatic maneuvers that include falling down 5-10 stories? I didn't know that! Of course you can't do EVERYTHING Ezio does with the hookblade in the game, but that doesn't make the device any less plausible in reality (which remember, is what this entire thread is based upon).

And it's all happening inside the animus. It's just a simulation. Unless it's from an actual cutscene, Ezio may not actually have done that and I can very well imagine that the Animus "bends" the rules of physics to keep from desynchronizing. In fact, it'd be weird if it didn't, since anything that prevents desynch would be favored.

rileypoole1234
01-30-2012, 03:22 AM
I think if we ask "Can a hook that small hold up a man while climbing" the answer is most definitely yes. If we ask "Can a hook that small catch onto a building from a 20+ meter fall and hold him up without ripping his arm off" the answer is no. That's where the video game physics come in.

LightRey
01-30-2012, 03:06 PM
I think if we ask "Can a hook that small hold up a man while climbing" the answer is most definitely yes. If we ask "Can a hook that small catch onto a building from a 20+ meter fall and hold him up without ripping his arm off" the answer is no. That's where the video game physics come in.

I don't get why people are so worried about the hook. In the end it doesn't matter. A fall like that would rip your arm off even if the hook holds.

LordWolv
01-30-2012, 06:28 PM
Don't bother talking about 'guts', you must remember that Desmond is controlling Ezio. If Ezio dies, Desmond as his physical form isn't inflicted with any form of pain. Desmond will throw Ezio around much more crazily and riskily than if it was himself. And as LightRey said, it could also defy physics. It's like a video game almost - You'd take the gamble as the player, and try to jump the wide gap. If you were faced with the same gap, you most definitely wouldn't jump. That's the 'daredevil' question sorted.

Now, as said, physics is absolutely essential. Jumping from a building and falling towards a ledge makes up some massive forces, and whether you grabbed it with a hook or your hand it doesn't matter. You'd basically rip your arm off, to over exaggerate. Moves such as the 'long jump' using flower pots, well, I don't see why that isn't possible. Using your own body momentum to swing sounds totally plausible. Climbing using the hook blade, honestly sounds pointless. You could be massively trained with a hook on the end of your arm, but if it doesn't slow you down climbing, you'd climb at exactly the same speed. What's so different about grabbing a loose brick and launching upwards, and hooking onto a loose brick and launching upwards? Nothing, yet the game makes it out a lot faster. The zip wires are completely plausible, and for once actually put the hookblade to good use, as without it you wouldn't be able to zip wire. Finally a use that doesn't include ripping arms off.

I know this isn't technically what the thread asked, but I'll answer that now - Yes, it is possible. I'm sure it's just as possible as the hidden blade; the technology was capable in the 16th century, but the inventors weren't as. The hookblade, admittedly, is slightly more complicated. But what does it need? Cogs and springs. They had cogs and springs.

JumpInTheFire13
01-30-2012, 08:12 PM
We should send this in to Mythbusters

LordWolv
01-30-2012, 08:22 PM
We should send this in to Mythbusters
Haha, yes. xD

rileypoole1234
01-30-2012, 10:15 PM
I don't get why people are so worried about the hook. In the end it doesn't matter. A fall like that would rip your arm off even if the hook holds.

I should rephrase what I said. "Could the hook(or even a man) catch on to anything from that high a fall" The answer is no. If a human tried to grab anything from a 20+ meter fall, I doubt their arms would be ripped off because they would most likely not be able to grab anything at the speed they are falling.

LightRey
01-31-2012, 01:09 AM
I should rephrase what I said. "Could the hook(or even a man) catch on to anything from that high a fall" The answer is no. If a human tried to grab anything from a 20+ meter fall, I doubt their arms would be ripped off because they would most likely not be able to grab anything at the speed they are falling.

Well more likely they just wouldn't be able to get the kind of friction needed to be stopped from falling like that, but yes if they did they'd lose their arms.

LordWolv
01-31-2012, 06:32 AM
Maybe complete loss of your arm is a bit over exaggerated - You'd badly dislocate your shoulder I expect. For your arm to be pulled off the joint at your shoulder would have to completely dislodge, and then you'd have to tear through the muscle, fat and arteries. I honestly don't think that drop can do that.

LightRey
01-31-2012, 09:54 AM
So writing down formulas would make it suddenly become physics? How exactly would I build this hookblade if you yourself just said,"the exact workings of the hookblade are unknown"? Does it take a genius to figure out a thin rod which can be discreetly hidden can't do all of that? More importantly, did you actually say that its not physics? When I said the word physics did you see the long list of words before it that said all the things that can break it?
One more question. Which formula could possibly tell you something can do all of that?
Please respond, I'm dying to know.

No, calculations and physical data (i.e. observations of experiments) would make it physics. Physics is a science. Simply saying stuff that you think is common sense is anything but scientifically valid. Look at Quantum Mechanics or Einstein's theory of relativity. Both theories completely contradict common sense, but they're still correct (or at least more so than common sense).

If you can't make the hookblade then that means you can't say anything solid about whether it would work or not, not that it doesn't work. I don't see how your statement is logical there.

There are several formulas you at the very least should take a look at. Stuff like F = m * g, or E = F * r (or better yet F = G * M * m / r^2 and E = int F(r) dr).