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View Full Version : Ubisoft ruined hidden blade combat



rafiqul84
01-27-2012, 11:47 PM
Back in AC1 and AC2 the use of hidden blade in combat was controversial, risky, and dangerous... but very skillfull. In AC1 you could ONLY counter attack with it and its window of opportunity to get the counter kill was MINISCULE. But now since the introduction of the pathetic "streak" system in brotherhood the hidden blades counter scale has been increased significantly. Its got to a point where if I hit the counter while the just before any actual contact - ezio just waits for a sword to come to him and i get the kill whereas i should have been brutally punished.


Now in assassins creed the hidden blade takes no skill at all - you dont get brutally massacred for slow reactions with it the way you did in AC2 and now it can essetially be treated the same as a dagger. Fighting with it has been turned from a promising challenge - to a fast, boring kill fest. Sure in ACR the Janissaries could still be a challenge even with it equipped but sadly overall its just not that fun to use anymore.


I hope Ubisoft in the next game reduce its counter window to what it was in AC2 and remove being able to get "streak" kills with it. I mean to get the streaks with a sword or a dagger is reasonable and cool but with a hidden blade it just sucks the fun out of the precision timing. Perhaps they should even remove being able to attack with it or at least make it VERY weak like in AC2. It used to take like 5 or 6 hits to kill with it now its like 3 or 4.

rileypoole1234
01-28-2012, 12:16 AM
I mean, the hidden blade is really a blade with no handle, and people fought with swords, so why not just use the hidden blades as well? It's seems only natural that the Assassin's would start fighting with the hidden blade.

naran6142
01-28-2012, 12:33 AM
If I have a blade strapped to my wrist... Im going to swing it around :p

tho i guess it wont be the worst thing if the counter window was closed a little bit, nut i like its speed

Subject-22
01-28-2012, 05:05 AM
I Finished AC1 again and i realised what your saying is true. I only ever used the hidden blade when assasinating people in low profile. NEVER in combat because you couldn't really.

They should make it a little more difficult

Voltige2011
01-28-2012, 06:45 AM
A small retractable blade strapped to the underside of your wrist is a terrible weapon. The only two things that would be worse things to use would be a hypodermic needle with a large poison storage located right above that blade. The other is a small gun barrel. Fire it enough and it starts to get superheated. Put those things together and you have the world's most lethal combination of the time. No wonder Assassins are an endangered species in 2012.

LordWolv
01-28-2012, 11:42 AM
The hidden blade is a tool of assassination, not of melee conflict. You shouldn't be fighting with it anyway, according to Altair.

LightRey
01-28-2012, 11:55 AM
A small retractable blade strapped to the underside of your wrist is a terrible weapon. The only two things that would be worse things to use would be a hypodermic needle with a large poison storage located right above that blade. The other is a small gun barrel. Fire it enough and it starts to get superheated. Put those things together and you have the world's most lethal combination of the time. No wonder Assassins are an endangered species in 2012.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. With the added armor the hidden blade is an excellent weapon to use in combat. It's versatile, fast, and exotic which makes it hard for people to pay proper attention to it in combat.

It should be this easy to counter with it, because it really is the kind of weapon with which you could very quickly and effectively surprise people with. Not to mention it basically functions as an extension of your arm, which means it's use comes very naturally.

GLHS
01-28-2012, 12:45 PM
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. With the added armor the hidden blade is an excellent weapon to use in combat. It's versatile, fast, and exotic which makes it hard for people to pay proper attention to it in combat.

It should be this easy to counter with it, because it really is the kind of weapon with which you could very quickly and effectively surprise people with. Not to mention it basically functions as an extension of your arm, which means it's use comes very naturally.

This. That's exactly why there was plate added to it. So you could fight with it. This is why it's faster and more agile too. B/c it's small. That's just how a dagger is faster and better for bigger groups of enemies than a sword is. It's faster and more precise. So hidden blade would be even faster and even more precise.

And @Isaac500: If that's true, then why did Altair write in the Codex to upgrade it with armor so you could fight with it?

PhiIs1618033
01-28-2012, 12:55 PM
This isn't about whether fighting with the hidden blade is viable. it's viable, of course. The thing is that it's just not special anymore and way too easy. Someone put it like this: you can just wait and press the counter somewhere between three weeks before and after the attack and still start a kill streak.
It's no fun.

LightRey
01-28-2012, 01:21 PM
This isn't about whether fighting with the hidden blade is viable. it's viable, of course. The thing is that it's just not special anymore and way too easy. Someone put it like this: you can just wait and press the counter somewhere between three weeks before and after the attack and still start a kill streak.
It's no fun.

Well I like it better this way. It's more realistic and it feels much better.

PhiIs1618033
01-28-2012, 02:00 PM
I disagree. I don't think deflecting a blow from a battleaxe with just a bit of metal on your arm is very realistic. It's alright for daggers, but a strike from an axe would break your arm. A fighting style with the hidden blade ought to be more a combination of dodge and attack. As for feeling, I like feeling like a badass, but not if it doesn't take any skill. It's like cheat codes: it gets old very quick.

LightRey
01-28-2012, 06:40 PM
I disagree. I don't think deflecting a blow from a battleaxe with just a bit of metal on your arm is very realistic. It's alright for daggers, but a strike from an axe would break your arm. A fighting style with the hidden blade ought to be more a combination of dodge and attack. As for feeling, I like feeling like a badass, but not if it doesn't take any skill. It's like cheat codes: it gets old very quick.

Unless the axe is swung normally (which is an awkward way of swinging it, but should be deflectable) you can't block the attack. Guards with axes rarely swing them normally (because it really doesn't make any sense). I'm not sure how you're trying to fight with the hidden blades, but I generally am trying to dodge and attack when using them. In AC1 you could just grab a guard, throw him to the ground and assassinate him without any of the other guards getting in the way. Rinse and repeat and you got yourself a massacre. You can't do that in any of the other games.

LordWolv
01-28-2012, 06:51 PM
I think hidden blades should only be able to block daggers. Anything more, it's just unrealistic. The fact it's the only weapon that can counter spears in ACB is actually realistic, because the blade is so small and fast, the spearman is almost definitely not being able to react.

D.I.D.
01-28-2012, 07:42 PM
Unless the axe is swung normally (which is an awkward way of swinging it, but should be deflectable) you can't block the attack. Guards with axes rarely swing them normally (because it really doesn't make any sense). I'm not sure how you're trying to fight with the hidden blades, but I generally am trying to dodge and attack when using them. In AC1 you could just grab a guard, throw him to the ground and assassinate him without any of the other guards getting in the way. Rinse and repeat and you got yourself a massacre. You can't do that in any of the other games.

Yeah, I agree with that. A lot of people are looking at AC1 with a little too much fondness. It was an amazing game, but the combat was pretty dull in some ways and they have made it more action-packed. Hopefully the next game will bring us more improvements, now that other games have taken influence from AC and created more competition.

There's a similar complaint about the moral duality in AC1's death speeches, but personally I was groaning a bit by the end of it. If I was still killing targets today and conversation went "Rest in peace, but you were a bad man", and the feller on the ground was clutching his chest going, "Aaaaah, but was I? Consider this, Assassin...", I'd be campaigning for a "press X to kick this guy's face off" feature.

masterfenix2009
01-28-2012, 08:17 PM
Realisim: Often the destruction of most games. Only Red Dead Redemption and AC have used realism and have it greatly benefit game quality.

rafiqul84
01-28-2012, 09:09 PM
a small retractable blade strapped to the underside of your wrist is a terrible weapon. The only two things that would be worse things to use would be a hypodermic needle with a large poison storage located right above that blade. The other is a small gun barrel. Fire it enough and it starts to get superheated. Put those things together and you have the world's most lethal combination of the time. No wonder assassins are an endangered species in 2012.

lol

rafiqul84
01-28-2012, 09:15 PM
Well I like it better this way. It's more realistic and it feels much better.

In what way is it more realistic - the introduction of streaks is the biggest flop in realism ever. Its basically saying when i kill 1 person i should automatically expect that the reaction speed of all the enemies around me will decrease by 99.9% and I can therefore uttilise this to immediatly kill the guy next to him. The system is a joke.

LightRey
01-28-2012, 09:31 PM
In what way is it more realistic - the introduction of streaks is the biggest flop in realism ever. Its basically saying when i kill 1 person i should automatically expect that the reaction speed of all the enemies around me will decrease by 99.9% and I can therefore uttilise this to immediatly kill the guy next to him. The system is a joke.

Kill streaks are much more realistic than only being able to stab people that are lying on the ground or who aren't paying attention or than in the middle of a fight being able to randomly grab a guard, throw him to the ground, walk to wards him and stab him to death without any of the other guards even trying to intervene, yes.

Kit572
01-29-2012, 04:11 PM
I agree with most of the people here, Hidden blade isn't that much fun anymore. There is no more challenge.

I still LOVE hidden blades though, coolest weapon invented in my opinion. Still want one in real life... like ammnra's hidden blade....

In AC3 they should just remove kill streaks with hidden blades.

ElvisMasur
01-29-2012, 06:02 PM
No. I like the way it currently works.

Voltige2011
01-30-2012, 12:10 AM
Kill streaks are much more realistic than only being able to stab people that are lying on the ground or who aren't paying attention or than in the middle of a fight being able to randomly grab a guard, throw him to the ground, walk to wards him and stab him to death without any of the other guards even trying to intervene, yes.
Is that sarcasm? If someone is on the ground they couldn't defend themselves. If a person isn't paying attention of course you can stab him to death. I'll just let you sit and wonder about your last sentence. More importantly, did you actually just say that stabbing everybody withing a mile of you to death is logical because you successfully countered one person?

phoenix-force411
01-30-2012, 02:09 AM
Personally, I've liked the hidden blade's improvement throughout the series. Getting rid of what has been in the game for a long time would be a major step back. I've come to enjoy it, and I don't think it should be removed. The game is based around the concept of realism, yes, but making things to real gets quite disturbing and it ruins the development of the game.

LightRey
01-30-2012, 02:20 AM
Is that sarcasm? If someone is on the ground they couldn't defend themselves. If a person isn't paying attention of course you can stab him to death. I'll just let you sit and wonder about your last sentence. More importantly, did you actually just say that stabbing everybody withing a mile of you to death is logical because you successfully countered one person?

It's more about the part where you can actually grab a guard from an entire mob and throw him to the ground without anyone even interfering, not to mention that it really shouldn't be that easy to simply grab him like that. Then on top of that you can just walk towards him (once again without anyone getting in the way) and kill him with the hidden blade.

The fact that you can kill people instantly one after another is not unrealistic on its own. The only real unrealistic part about kill streaks is that the alternative does not kill instantly.

Kill streaks wouldn't even be unrealistic if you were to take away the game's regular fighting, while the hidden blade combat from AC1 was just pathetically unrealistic. You can't even use it to regularly attack people. It's like Alta´r is going like: "oh no, he spotted me, now I can't stab anymore unless he's facing away or lying on the ground".

Voltige2011
01-30-2012, 05:02 AM
It's more about the part where you can actually grab a guard from an entire mob and throw him to the ground without anyone even interfering random hits and grab breaks, not to mention that it really shouldn't be that easy to simply grab him like that grab breaks. Then on top of that you can just walk towards him (once again without anyone getting in the way) they still hit you... and kill him with the hidden blade.

The fact that you can kill people instantly one after another is not unrealistic on its own.??? The only real unrealistic part about kill streaks is that the alternative does not kill instantly.

Kill streaks wouldn't even be unrealistic if you were to take away the game's regular fighting, while the hidden blade combat from AC1 was just pathetically unrealistic. You can't even use it to regularly attack people. It's like Alta´r is going like: "oh no, he spotted me, now I can't stab anymore unless he's facing away or lying on the ground".What?
How exactly is it unrealistic? What are you basing this off of? Do you have a hidden blade that you've been trained to fight with?

LightRey
01-30-2012, 02:59 PM
How exactly is it unrealistic? What are you basing this off of? Do you have a hidden blade that you've been trained to fight with?

I'm basing this on common sense. Have you ever tried to fight a group of people? It's not exactly easy to grab one of them without any of the others even trying to stop you. Let alone that you actually succeed in grabbing them with one hand and throwing them to the ground. Then there's the bit where you can just walk up to him and kill him, once again without anyone getting in the way. A regular group would just gang up on you, like they do in AC2, ACB and ACR (even though they still don't do it as much as is realistic, but considering the situation that's quite understandable).

Them still hitting you isn't the same as getting in the way. They don't hit you any more than they would if you would just be standing there. Realistically they'd deliberately be taking advantage of the giant *** opening you're leaving when you're grabbing the guy, or when casually walking up to him.

Don't you remember AC1 at all? It took ages for a guard to actually make a move.

kenshijr
01-30-2012, 04:17 PM
I think the Hidden Blade Combat is awesome!! Big improvement, it is a major component that represents the being of an assassin, its like one of their symbols, a trademark, a signature left to their foes. back in Altair days they had to remove the wedding finger to show commitment to the weapon. If we go back to simple miniscule AC1 fighting then it like shows weakness, boring slow fighting. But see another thing to was that Altair had one hidden blade, but Ezio had a seconnd. Im not an expert combat fighter but im sure that another weapon in combat can make the difference. I mean just imagine if Ezio wielded two swords, two daggers, or simply have two guns. He'd be deadly but anyways Altair and Ezio are "Mentors" they need to be deadly as possible and trained up in every way of their creed. Which is The Creed itself, being Mentor to an order that is a World Wide Order, the knowledge of the creed and the templars, fighting, every navigation skills, and of course obtaining and knowing the knowledge of the ones before us from the first civilization and previous assassins.