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Skopelicious7
01-27-2012, 04:06 PM
I was thinking what the Assassin's insignia could resemble... So, i took a look on the Assassin's Creed Wiki for an answer...
There, it says...''The insignia bears some resemblance to the symbol of the Freemasons (the Square and Compasses).''
Is there a reason why the Assassin's symbol resembles the symbol of the nowadays Templars?

LightRey
01-27-2012, 05:03 PM
Freemasons aren't Templars.

TrueStoic
01-27-2012, 06:40 PM
Freemasons aren't Templars.

iluminati = Templars+Freemasons+etc.. thats how it goes , right?

q1908gate13
01-27-2012, 07:15 PM
Freemasons aren't Templars.

If I'm not mistaken, the first Freemasons were Templars hidden in Scotland.

LightRey
01-27-2012, 10:10 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the first Freemasons were Templars hidden in Scotland.

You are mistaken. The first freemasons were masons. There is at least one lodge out there that was started by a group of ex-templars (after they were disbanded). I think that is what you are referring to. Regardless, freemasonry has little to nothing to do with the Templars.

JumpInTheFire13
01-27-2012, 10:54 PM
It looks like a staple remover. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Staple_remover.jpg

Subject-22
01-28-2012, 05:19 AM
The Freemasons are templars?

LightRey
01-28-2012, 12:05 PM
The Freemasons are templars?

The Freemasons are a bunch of guys that like to do stuff together.

GLHS
01-28-2012, 12:30 PM
It looks like a staple remover. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Staple_remover.jpg


http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o367/Gsmacklover/1565.jpg

Skopelicious7
01-28-2012, 01:43 PM
Once, i watched a documentary film about Masons/Freemasons on TV. There, one high-ranked Freemason was invited for an interview. He was asked whether a Greek politic was a Freemason and he asked ''well, yes, he was a Freemason, but just a low-ranked. He was just a Templar.''
You make your own conclusions.

q1908gate13
01-28-2012, 03:31 PM
You are mistaken. The first freemasons were masons. There is at least one lodge out there that was started by a group of ex-templars (after they were disbanded). I think that is what you are referring to. Regardless, freemasonry has little to nothing to do with the Templars.
Thanks for the clarification.

CkSwtos
01-28-2012, 03:39 PM
One of the founding orders of the Freemasonry where the "Rosicrucians". They could resemble the Templars because they the Knight of Rhodes and they were founded around the same time with the Knight Templars.

Except this, Templars whether they still exist or not, have nothing to do with Free Massonry. A about this interview that a Free Masson talked about a Greek Politic and called him a Templar, probably "Templar" is a low rank title. Just a title inspired by historican events.

Skopelicious7
01-28-2012, 05:08 PM
CkSwtos, απ'ό,τι πρόσεξα είσαι πατριωτάκι, οπότε ας τα πούμε στη γλώσσα μας.
Έστω πως έχεις δίκαιο. Αν οι Ασσασσίνοι αντιπροσωπεύουν τους Ελευθεροτέκτονες, τότε άμεσα προκύπτει πως η σύγχρονη Μασονία αποτελείται από ευεργέτες της φιλελευθερίας, της ισότητας, του σεβασμού και της δικαιοσύνης. Σίγουρα εκ των πραγμάτων, η αλήθεια είναι αντιδιαμετρική. Η Μασονία/Ελευθεροτεκτονισμός, έννοιες ταυτόσημες κατά την Wikipedia για να μην σε πάω μακριά, αντιπροσωπεύει άλλες ιδέες. Σου επισυνάπτω δύο βίντεο.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NWaPXJhQvfM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY70-8TeeLI
Κάπου στο 2ο, θα προσέξεις τον λόγο γύρω από τον πολιτικό στον οποίο αναφέρθηκα στο προηγούμενο post. Προσωπικά, δεν δέχομαι πως δεν υπάρχει συσχετισμός των Templars με την Μασονία. Αν πρόκειται για ονομασία τίτλου, θα μπορούσε να ήταν π.χ. ''Σπαρτιάτης'', που είναι πιό μάχημοι και άθεοι, αντίθετα με τους Σταυροφόρους (Templars) που κατέσφαξαν την Ευρώπη και την Μέση Ανατολή στο όνομα του Χριστιανισμού, τον οποίο οι Μασόνοι χλευάζουν. Βέβαια, αυτό είναι κατά μεγάλη πιθανότητα βιτρίνα που εξυπηρετεί συμφέροντα, αλλά δεν είναι αυτό το θέμα μας τώρα.
Το θέμα δεν είναι επίσης πως οι Ασσασσίνοι του videogame μπορεί να ήταν Μασόνοι. To Assassin's Creed είναι απλώς ένα μυθιοστόρημα, Το θέμα είναι πως μπορεί να πρόκειται για μιά υπόγεια προπαγάνδα ανάδειξης της Μασονίας στους ημιμαθείς και αμόρφωτους. Η Μασονία έχει φέρει τον κόσμο εδώ που βρίσκεται. Μπορεί να είμαι και ένας από αυτούς τους ημιμαθείς και αμόρφωτους, όμως, έστω και σαν ιδέα, σου θέτει προβληματισμούς...

LightRey
01-28-2012, 06:33 PM
CkSwtos, απ'ό,τι πρόσεξα είσαι πατριωτάκι, οπότε ας τα πούμε στη γλώσσα μας.
Έστω πως έχεις δίκαιο. Αν οι Ασσασσίνοι αντιπροσωπεύουν τους Ελευθεροτέκτονες, τότε άμεσα προκύπτει πως η σύγχρονη Μασονία αποτελείται από ευεργέτες της φιλελευθερίας, της ισότητας, του σεβασμού και της δικαιοσύνης. Σίγουρα εκ των πραγμάτων, η αλήθεια είναι αντιδιαμετρική. Η Μασονία/Ελευθεροτεκτονισμός, έννοιες ταυτόσημες κατά την Wikipedia για να μην σε πάω μακριά, αντιπροσωπεύει άλλες ιδέες. Σου επισυνάπτω δύο βίντεο.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NWaPXJhQvfM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY70-8TeeLI
Κάπου στο 2ο, θα προσέξεις τον λόγο γύρω από τον πολιτικό στον οποίο αναφέρθηκα στο προηγούμενο post. Προσωπικά, δεν δέχομαι πως δεν υπάρχει συσχετισμός των Templars με την Μασονία. Αν πρόκειται για ονομασία τίτλου, θα μπορούσε να ήταν π.χ. ''Σπαρτιάτης'', που είναι πιό μάχημοι και άθεοι, αντίθετα με τους Σταυροφόρους (Templars) που κατέσφαξαν την Ευρώπη και την Μέση Ανατολή στο όνομα του Χριστιανισμού, τον οποίο οι Μασόνοι χλευάζουν. Βέβαια, αυτό είναι κατά μεγάλη πιθανότητα βιτρίνα που εξυπηρετεί συμφέροντα, αλλά δεν είναι αυτό το θέμα μας τώρα.
Το θέμα δεν είναι επίσης πως οι Ασσασσίνοι του videogame μπορεί να ήταν Μασόνοι. To Assassin's Creed είναι απλώς ένα μυθιοστόρημα, Το θέμα είναι πως μπορεί να πρόκειται για μιά υπόγεια προπαγάνδα ανάδειξης της Μασονίας στους ημιμαθείς και αμόρφωτους. Η Μασονία έχει φέρει τον κόσμο εδώ που βρίσκεται. Μπορεί να είμαι και ένας από αυτούς τους ημιμαθείς και αμόρφωτους, όμως, έστω και σαν ιδέα, σου θέτει προβληματισμούς...

Speak English please.

Anyways, another important distinction between Freemasons and Templars is that Freemasons have no political agenda. In fact, neither religion nor politics may be discussed within the Masonic lodges.

CkSwtos
01-28-2012, 11:52 PM
Speak English please.

Anyways, another important distinction between Freemasons and Templars is that Freemasons have no political agenda. In fact, neither religion nor politics may be discussed within the Masonic lodges.


That would be my answer, I erased my answer by mistake xP. They have nothing to do with politics and religion, everyone can join (almost). In addition I don 't want to confuse three different orders. The free masons are the free mason, the templars (if they still exist) have their own goals to achieve, same for the assassins.

JumpInTheFire13
01-29-2012, 01:51 AM
But the Templars never had anything to do with religion, they just made it look that way

LightRey
01-29-2012, 02:38 AM
But the Templars never had anything to do with religion, they just made it look that way

We said politics and religion. Besides, we're talking about real life here, not the game.

Kit572
01-29-2012, 07:00 AM
But the Templars never had anything to do with religion, they just made it look that way

I don't understand....

CkSwtos
01-29-2012, 12:28 PM
When the order of the Kngiht Templars was first founded, it was under of the off record in a way leadership of the pope. The Knight Templars where supposed to be something like his elite army. And that's what they became until their interests stoped running parallel. That's when the pope ordered their execution and their Grand Master was burned at the Stake. Since then the order either went underground, or they where dismissed as history says, or they went on with another name.

Historicaly they were founded as an Elite Christian army so yeah I guess they had to do with religion, just a bit, but they did.

LightRey
01-29-2012, 01:13 PM
When the order of the Kngiht Templars was first founded, it was under of the off record in a way leadership of the pope. The Knight Templars where supposed to be something like his elite army. And that's what they became until their interests stoped running parallel. That's when the pope ordered their execution and their Grand Master was burned at the Stake. Since then the order either went underground, or they where dismissed as history says, or they went on with another name.

Historicaly they were founded as an Elite Christian army so yeah I guess they had to do with religion, just a bit, but they did.

I don't think you're correct. The Knights Templar were a completely independent organization from the pope. They were founded at Solomon's Temple, close to which they made their base of operations. Their knights were trained ferociously and their job was to protect pilgrims and recover relics (such as the Ark of the Covenant, which they claimed to have found at the temple).

When Jerusalem was conquered by Saladin, the Templars were forced to leave and they moved their base of operations to Cyprus. This is during the time of Alta´r.

Eventually, the French king accused the order of heresy, which was punishable by death. He had done so because he didn't like the power the Templars had and France was in financial trouble, which could be solved by taking the Templars' money, which was more than any nation's treasury at the time. The pope at the time was under a tight leash of the French king, but even so he ordered the Templars to be forgiven, which was eventually still stopped by the king, who declared that he would simply create his own church if he did so. Since the pope did not want the church to be split, the templars were found guilty of heresy and most were executed and the order was disbanded.

The strange thing is though that the Templars' money was never found.

Skopelicious7
01-29-2012, 02:05 PM
Speak English please.

Anyways, another important distinction between Freemasons and Templars is that Freemasons have no political agenda. In fact, neither religion nor politics may be discussed within the Masonic lodges.

LightRey sorry i kept you out from the discussion before. Nevertheless, your answer is related to it. If you watch the 1st video, you'll see that Freemasonry has to do with religious matters. At least, this is what it seems... What is undoubtedly fact, is that Freemasonry has a part in the world's political flow. I don't know whether political matters are discussed in a lodge or not, but there are indications (if not events that prove it) that there is relationship between them and the politics. So, Freemasons are not just people gathered in a lodge that do...things together....
This is why it's quite strange that Ubisoft chose an emblem familiar to the Square and Compasses for the Assassins. Assassins have a ''political agenda'', to stop the Templars will. Templars ''agenda'', is to rule the world. Also, Assassin's creed, had nothing to do with religion... Templars? ''May the father of understanding guide us...'' The game is a novel, partly based on the real life. Masons are just called Templars, for obvious reasons...and i say again...it's quite strange that a Freemasonry's emblem, is resembled thought the Assassin's one... In the game, Assassin's were fighting for freedom, justice and respect. In real life, Freemasons are like ''God''...everywhere and nowhere...but mostly everywhere... Where are the contact points between these two aspects?
As for CkSwtos, you are right, Knight Templars (Crusaders) had to do with religion, but, also with politics.

CkSwtos
01-29-2012, 02:12 PM
I don't think you're correct. The Knights Templar were a completely independent organization from the pope. They were founded at Solomon's Temple, close to which they made their base of operations. Their knights were trained ferociously and their job was to protect pilgrims and recover relics (such as the Ark of the Covenant, which they claimed to have found at the temple).

When Jerusalem was conquered by Saladin, the Templars were forced to leave and they moved their base of operations to Cyprus. This is during the time of Alta´r.

Eventually, the French king accused the order of heresy, which was punishable by death. He had done so because he didn't like the power the Templars had and France was in financial trouble, which could be solved by taking the Templars' money, which was more than any nation's treasury at the time. The pope at the time was under a tight leash of the French king, but even so he ordered the Templars to be forgiven, which was eventually still stopped by the king, who declared that he would simply create his own church if he did so. Since the pope did not want the church to be split, the templars were found guilty of heresy and most were executed and the order was disbanded.

The strange thing is though that the Templars' money was never found.

let's agree on that.
In a documentary I've seen they said that the kngiht's flagship has retreated to Scotland and they managed to get their treasure to safety.
In Scotalnd now, they stayed eadle for a few years as they were reorganizing and then they helped the Scotish king in the war against the English king. In Scotalnd one can find churches with templar symbols as well. Their treasure is said to be hidden underground at the U.S.A.where the scientists have found underground aves full of traps, that either they belong to pirates or the templars.

LightRey
01-29-2012, 02:21 PM
LightRey sorry i kept you out from the discussion before. Nevertheless, your answer is related to it. If you watch the 1st video, you'll see that Freemasonry has to do with religious matters. At least, this is what it seems... What is undoubtedly fact, is that Freemasonry has a part in the world's political flow. I don't know whether political matters are discussed in a lodge or not, but there are indications (if not events that prove it) that there is relationship between them and the politics. So, Freemasons are not just people gathered in a lodge that do...things together....
This is why it's quite strange that Ubisoft chose an emblem familiar to the Square and Compasses for the Assassins. Assassins have a ''political agenda'', to stop the Templars will. Templars ''agenda'', is to rule the world. Also, Assassin's creed, had nothing to do with religion... Templars? ''May the father of understanding guide us...'' The game is a novel, partly based on the real life. Masons are just called Templars, for obvious reasons...and i say again...it's quite strange that a Freemasonry's emblem, is resembled thought the Assassin's one... In the game, Assassin's were fighting for freedom, justice and respect. In real life, Freemasons are like ''God''...everywhere and nowhere...but mostly everywhere... Where are the contact points between these two aspects?
As for CkSwtos, you are right, Knight Templars (Crusaders) had to do with religion, but, also with politics.

What you're referring to as "evidence" are a few random crimes and incidents that have been connected to the Freemasons. There are only 2 of them that are worthy of note.

The first is an incident in which an "initiation" was performed (not one of the standard rituals according to the Freemasons) in which the new member had to be blindfolded and another member would shoot blanks at him. However, it turned out the gun was loaded with actual bullets and the new member was shot and killed. There was a police investigation and it was ruled that it was an accident. However, the member that shot the man was expelled from the lodge (because he was no longer of good reputation, which you have to be in order to be a member).

The second incident is a murder where the victim was found hanged with bricks in his pockets, which some reporter linked to Freemasons. This was absurd of course, because masons work with stone, not bricks.

Neither incident indicates that the Freemasons are anything else than a regular ritualistic men's club.

What you're referring to is a conspiracy theory and is about as reliable as the theory that aliens built the pyramids or that we never actually set foot on the moon.

EDIT: The fact of the matter is that Freemasonry is very secretive and therefore people are inclined to suspect them of the weirdest things. In reality they are not much different from a "no gurlz allowed" tree house.