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adadaead
04-27-2004, 01:16 PM
Can anybody tell or post pictures of Corsair and Hellcat. Just i'm confused were they fighters or what and what that plane that was used in a Nave with its Wing kinda bend.



Only in the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.
LtGen Adolf Galland, Luftwaffe
There are only two types of aircraft fighters and targets.
Doyle Wahoo' Nicholson, USMC

adadaead
04-27-2004, 01:16 PM
Can anybody tell or post pictures of Corsair and Hellcat. Just i'm confused were they fighters or what and what that plane that was used in a Nave with its Wing kinda bend.



Only in the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.
LtGen Adolf Galland, Luftwaffe
There are only two types of aircraft fighters and targets.
Doyle Wahoo' Nicholson, USMC

Huckebein_UK
04-27-2004, 01:27 PM
Both were USN fighters.

Vought F4U Corsair was one of the best Pacific fighters of the war. The gull wing was to allow a shorter (and therefore more sturdy/ capable of surviving carrier landings) undercarriage to be used, whilst still providing room for the enormous propeller on the front. Armament was 6 x .50" machine guns, and it achieved one of the best kill:loss ratios of the war.

http://www.easybuiltmodels.com/ff70-01.jpg

http://www.100megspopup.com/photo4phood/webaircraft/s00f4u-1j.jpg

Grumman F6F Hellcat was the successor to the adequate F4U Wildcat. It used a low-wing for the same reason that the F4U used a gull-wing, and had the same armament. The F6F was very successfull as a ground-attack/ close-support fighter.

http://www.airmuseumsuk.org/Legends2002/800/images/029%20Grumman%20F6F%20Hellcat%20TFC.jpg

http://www.fighter-collection.com/hellcat/img/f6f_cors.jpg

Overall, the two as a pair were very low on the Japanese pilots' popularity list...

Anything else I missed/ you want to know?

Huckebein
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Kasdeya
04-27-2004, 01:28 PM
Try searching with www.google.com (http://www.google.com) click on the Images link and it will show alot of pictures.

Hope this helps.

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adadaead
04-27-2004, 01:34 PM
Nah thanks that all i wanted to know. Man, you some peopl are like walking encyclopedias.

This is much better then google.



Only in the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.

Huckebein_UK
04-27-2004, 01:44 PM
You're welcome mate, but don't hesitate to read up some more if you're interested - I only gave you a very brief overview... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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BuzzU
04-27-2004, 02:13 PM
I look forward to flying both the Corsair and Hellcat. They should be as tough as or maybe tougher than the P-47. Say what you want about American planes, but you can't say they arn't strong. Except for that pesky P-51.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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3.JG51_Stecher
04-27-2004, 02:13 PM
----------------------------------
Originally posted by Huckebein_UK:

Grumman F6F Hellcat was the successor to the adequate F4U Wildcat.
----------------------------------

Must have still had the Corsair on your mind. I'm sure you know that the Wildcat was the F4F. Just don't want others to be confused.

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CooperF4E
04-27-2004, 02:18 PM
More importantly than the small designation error is the comment that the F4U had one of the best kill to loss ratios of the war and the follow up remark that the Hellcat was used very succesfully in the air-to-ground role....

Both of these statements are true with the Corsair getting a very favorable kill-to-loss ratio and the Hellcat being a competent ground pounder, but.........

What should be noted about both fighters is this......The Corsair is widely considered the best USN fighter of the war, but it's air-to-air successes pale in comparison to the Hellcat. The Hellcat is credited with roughly 75 percent of all USN air-to-air victories of World War II. That includes Corsair, Wildcat, and Buffalo kills as well as numerous odd kills such as Avengers or Dauntlesses scoring the occasional victory.

Simply put the Hellcat mastered the Japanese. It ate the Zero alive. (When later variants of the P-40 came out along with proper tactics the Warhawk became quite a competent Zero killer as well.)

The Hellcat was used as a ground pounder from time to time, but it's fortay was in air-to-air combat.

ForkTailedDevil
04-27-2004, 02:41 PM
The P-38 shot down more Japanese aircraft than any other American plane period. Also I was thinking, it is impressive that the Hellcat and Corsairs had such impressive stats but by the time they came into service in '43 and '44 hadn't the US already achieved air superiority over Japan?? What I am saying is the air war was pretty much won and the Japanese were for the most part unable to bring out better fighters with a few exceptions.

JG7_Rall
04-27-2004, 04:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
I look forward to flying both the Corsair and Hellcat. They should be as tough as or maybe tougher than the P-47. Say what you want about American planes, but you can't say they arn't strong. Except for that pesky P-51.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif luckily all that strenght turns into great diving abilities and good high speed handling which suites my style more anyways

"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
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horseback
04-27-2004, 07:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ForkTailedDevil:
The P-38 shot down more Japanese aircraft than any other American plane period. Also I was thinking, it is impressive that the Hellcat and Corsairs had such impressive stats but by the time they came into service in '43 and '44 hadn't the US already achieved air superiority over Japan?? What I am saying is the air war was pretty much won and the Japanese were for the most part unable to bring out better fighters with a few exceptions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not in a position to challenge your assertion about the P-38's primacy over the Hellcat in number of kills (on the road again, and far from my personal library), but the P-38 had almost a year's head start (November '42 vs. late September '43)on the Hellcat and three months on the Corsair (combat debut at Guadalcanal in February '43).

As for achieving air superiority over the Japanese by the time these two arrived in-theater, I think most air war historians would agree that the Americans held the upper hand in the Pacific after the Japanese evacuated Guadalcanal, but the contest was far from decided until the Marianas Turkey Shoot during the invasion of Saipan, around June of '44 cleared up all doubts.

After that, it could be seen that the bulk of the skilled prewar trained Japanese fighter pilots had been killed or badly enough injured to be taken out of the fight, and the overall quality of their much more poorly trained replacements was showing clearly, along with the inadequacies of the prewar Japanese design philosophy.

Also, I would like to clear up a misstatement about the relative roles of the Corsair and the Hellcat: while both were used as fighter-bombers, both were conceived as fighters. The Hellcat, being more carrier friendly (and overall more forgiving & maintainable), serving more in the fighter role than the Corsair, which was more often land based, and used by the Marines in the ground support role.

Most aviation historians agree that the Hellcat was the easiest American fighter to master, and only the P-47 could rival it's ability to get its pilots home alive (that carrier landing thing still killed a few more guys though). I look forward to seeing the reaction of the LW jocks when they try taking on this massive beast, thinking it's a Jug painted blue, and realize that it can turn and dive with them, and it's as good a gun platform as the Jug.

There will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on that great day!

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

BuzzU
04-27-2004, 07:42 PM
Horseback,

You mean the Japanese, not the LW. I've shot enough 109/190's. I want to turn some Zero's into toothpicks. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/anderson9.jpg

tttiger
04-27-2004, 08:16 PM
You got it backwards, Huck.

The Hellcat was the most successful US fighter of the war with a 19:1 kill/death ratio.

The Corsair rivaled the Jug as a tough ground attack plane and was still used for close air support by the Marines in Korea. It was faster than te Hellcat but much less agile in a fight.

The Jug, Hellcat and Corsair all used the same engine.

And horseback, the thesis behing "Fire In The Sky," which is probably the best bopok on WWII air warfare I have read, is that the air war in the Pacific was really over by 1943 when the second generation of fighters (P-38, Hellcat and Corsair arrived.

And, yes, Google before you ask such basic questions, please http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

LuftLuver
04-27-2004, 09:21 PM
Anyway, good post Huck.

I was however, quite surprised when I recently read that the Corsair should/will turn no better than the P47.

Sheesh, anyone have more on that?

"All your bases are belong to us."

Bearcat99
04-28-2004, 04:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huckebein_UK:
Both were USN fighters.

Vought F4U Corsair was one of the best Pacific fighters of the war. The gull wing was to allow a shorter (and therefore more sturdy/ capable of surviving carrier landings) undercarriage to be used, whilst still providing room for the enormous propeller on the front. Armament was 6 x .50" machine guns, and it achieved one of the best kill:loss ratios of the war.

Grumman F6F Hellcat was the successor to the adequate F4U Wildcat. It used a low-wing for the same reason that the F4U used a gull-wing, and had the same armament. The F6F was very successfull as a ground-attack/ close-support fighter.

Overall, the two as a pair were _very_ low on the Japanese pilots' popularity list...

Anything else I missed/ you want to know?

Huckebein
Il2skins.com for skins http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Who are you and what did you do to the real Huckebein.............. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
I look forward to flying both the Corsair and Hellcat. They should be as tough as or maybe tougher than the P-47. Say what you want about American planes, but you can't say they arn't strong. Except for that pesky P-51.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhhh the beauty with the curvy lines, sharp claws and a glass jaw.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I read an account where some Corsair pilots used to actually force Zero pilts into the ground down low.... the planes is HUGE... I was expecting something kind of small but it is huge up close. I am looking forward to it too.
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Huckebein_UK
04-28-2004, 11:29 AM
Ok, some clearing up to do methinks. Firstly, thanks for correcting me those who did, both on the designation error and then on the type-use innaccuracies. I did to some extent realise that the Hellcat and Corsair were both used for both fighter and ground-attack tasks, but I was trying to limit my post to a basic overview - as it turned out it did rather give the wrong impression... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

My excuse is that my real forte on WWII aviation knowledge is the war over Europe, with the Pacific conflict only being near the top of my interest list for about 2 years now.

As for the "real" Huckebein, I AM THE REAL HUCK! I am quite aware that there is another imposter around here who goes by the name 'Huckebein', and was very upset when I came to register here only to find me nickname had been half-inched! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I've been posting at the Il2skins forums as 'Huckebein' for quite some time ya see, and only recently began posting over here.

Anyhoo, I s'pose y'all will just have to get used to me sig pics, or look for the 'UK' suffix to tell us apart, sorry for the inconvenience... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Huckebein
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Bearcat99
04-28-2004, 12:40 PM
You are the same FW-190 Huckbein? The same "German planes are the best engineered,flown,looking and all things American are ****" Huckebein??!!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif You cant be http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif... you sound so civil and well.... so cool and down to Earth...... Really http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif... Who are you..... and what did you do to the real Huckebein....The first half of the Uber twins we all have come to know and love... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif we will find out the truth you know........ ve haff veys to mehhk you tahhhlk....... Ok... Im loosin it here.............. I need to get back to work.... its a good thing I have an interview on Friday....

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Huckebein_UK
04-29-2004, 09:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huckebein_UK:
Ok, some clearing up to do methinks. Firstly, thanks for correcting me those who did, both on the designation error and then on the type-use innaccuracies. I did to some extent realise that the Hellcat and Corsair were both used for both fighter and ground-attack tasks, but I was trying to limit my post to a basic overview - as it turned out it did rather give the wrong impression... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

My excuse is that my real forte on WWII aviation knowledge is the war over Europe, with the Pacific conflict only being near the top of my interest list for about 2 years now.

As for the "real" Huckebein, I AM THE REAL HUCK! I am quite aware that there is another imposter around here who goes by the name 'Huckebein', and was very upset when I came to register here only to find me nickname had been half-inched! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I've been posting at the Il2skins forums as 'Huckebein' for quite some time ya see, and only recently began posting over here.

Anyhoo, I s'pose y'all will just have to get used to me sig pics, or look for the 'UK' suffix to tell us apart, sorry for the inconvenience... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Huckebein
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Il2skins.com for skins http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aha, ok, I s'pose I'll just have to blurt it. I am NOT the Huckebein you all know - I am a new (I hesitate to say improved) Huck, here to learn and divulge knowledge in (hopefully) even portions.

In t'real world I'm an 18 year old Londoner/ college student, and have been interested in WWII aviation and WWII in general since I saw the film 'Memphis Belle' in 1995. My fave WWII aeroplane and the best fighter-fighter combat plane is/ was the Spit XIVe, the most capable all-round fighter of WWII was the P-51, the best fighter for air-air combat against fighters OR bombers was the Focke-Wulf Ta-152H-1, and the Ki-84 and N1K2-J between them should have ruled the Pacific skies but for circumstance...

The difference between me and the old Huckebein (by the sound of it) is that the above opinions o' mine are more than open to debate - I've changed my mind about some or all of them many times over - and I just LOVE tokkin' 'bout WWII aviation. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Oh, and Il2: FB is the best thing on the PC since... aww, hell, since nothing - IT'S THE BEST THING ON THE PC! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

--------------
Huckebein_UK
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Gibbage1
04-29-2004, 09:55 AM
Ya. That is a big differance between you and the "other" Huckebein. His "openion" was DEFINITLY not open for debate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif You could not change his mind even with proof. I swear if he read some Nazi propaganda about the sky bring red, he would swear a blue streak that the sky was indeed red, and thats why the FW-190 was such a better aircraft then anything. Lol. He was funny and fustrating.

Gib

My post's are my asumptions only, and in no way linked to fact. I am not an official 1C, Ubi, or Russian Red Rocket spokesman.

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Huckebein_UK
04-29-2004, 10:16 AM
Sounds fun... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

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p1ngu666
04-29-2004, 10:55 AM
corsair didnt have the turbo of the p47. corsair down low, jug up high http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
dunno about hellcat and the other cats

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adadaead
04-29-2004, 12:34 PM
Does anybody know what plane did Japs camicadze or whatever pilots had used, you know the planes that they had crashed in to other planes or ships. I'm just curious were those planes were so cheap to make so it wouldn't be such a loss to crash it.



Only in the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.

DuxCorvan
04-29-2004, 02:01 PM
There were only two aircraft designed to be kamikaze mounts from the start. One was the well-known piloted rocket bomb known as Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka. The other one was a plane made with cheap materials that handled horribly and was called Nakajima Ki-115 Tsurugi.

But the Japanese usually used extant aircraft as Zeros or other, filled to the top with explosives and bombs. They flew in formations, and were usually volunteer, but some are said to have been 'escorted' by ordinary fighters to avoid last minute changes-of-mind... although it is difficult to state if this was real but rare, real and common, or just another myth about kamikaze which emerges from allied in-war propaganda.

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