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OJS_Cornwall
05-22-2006, 10:40 AM
i was just woundering and have tried to look on the net with limited response how uboats in a wolfpack communicated with each other for instance was there a senior uboat. iwas intersted how they organised an assult.
so does any one of you people with your infinate knowledge of uboats know ,

1:how they communicated on surface, is it similar to in das boot with the spotlight

2.if there was any possible communication wilst submerged.

if someone can enlighten me i would be very happy.

p.s i love this game though i'm not very good at it.

OJS_Cornwall
05-22-2006, 10:40 AM
i was just woundering and have tried to look on the net with limited response how uboats in a wolfpack communicated with each other for instance was there a senior uboat. iwas intersted how they organised an assult.
so does any one of you people with your infinate knowledge of uboats know ,

1:how they communicated on surface, is it similar to in das boot with the spotlight

2.if there was any possible communication wilst submerged.

if someone can enlighten me i would be very happy.

p.s i love this game though i'm not very good at it.

HeibgesU999
05-22-2006, 12:36 PM
Only rarely would 2 uboats be on the surface in close enough proximity to make visual signalling possible.

Uboats could receive transmissions from giant transmitter Goliath, but could not send.

In the case of convoy operations, the first 2 uboats on the scene became postion keepers. Every hour they were required to send a contact report on the convoys position, speed, and course. Other uboats used this information to plan their intercepts and attacks.

But a wolfpack did not communicate with each other like say a fighter squadron or tank platoon. Even during wolfpack operations, uboats did not use "cooperative tactics".

If two uboats attacked a convoy at the same time, so the attention of the escorts is divided, this was largely by blind luck.

But when a whole bunch of uboats got near a convoy, at least before May 1943, good things tended to happen or the Germans.

OJS_Cornwall
05-22-2006, 02:25 PM
Thanks very much,heibges
so there were no official wolfpacks that traveled together then

HeibgesU999
05-22-2006, 03:52 PM
They travelled together, but not in formation as you probably think of when you think of a military organization.

All Uboats had to report their location to BdU severl times per day. When BdU got some intelligence on a convoy, he would look at his available boats, and organize those who could possibly take part in the operation into a wolfpack.

But each boat in the wolfpack operated seperately. They did not get into a line, and attack the convoy simultaneously. If simultaneous attacks happened, it was by accident.

But skippers did operate with the same tactical mindset. So if you had a dozen uboats chasing a convoy during the day, they would all proably plan their attacks to take part at night.

The bell tolls for the wolfpacks after May 1943.

These boats would set up a picket line covering the anticpated convoy path in bredth and in depth in the same general area.

Although there might be an overall leader of the wolfpack, every commander fought his boat as an individual fighting unit.

fizilbert
05-22-2006, 07:23 PM
Actually, I read a report done by the US Navy during the war about uboat radio communications. There were several radio frequencies devoted to just wolfpack operations. The finding uboat would transmit a homing signal over the frequency, so other uboats could converge on the location of the convoy. While communications were a bit limited, they did in fact coordinate attacks.

HeibgesU999
05-22-2006, 09:30 PM
Cooridinated attacks in the sense that "guys we're going to attack the convoy tonight", but each submarine would make its attack seperately from that of its brethren.

Now, and someone please correct me on this,US Submarines used UHF radios to communicate at short ranges, and actually were a little more coordinated than the uboats. Given, the USN wolfpacks were much smaller than their German counterparts.

There are some good stories at the USS Pampanito website.

http://www.maritime.org/pamphome.htm

samuraiwarr1982
05-22-2006, 09:57 PM
actually your all wrong kind of i tell you cause my grand pa was a U-Boat captain in 2nd World War he was forced back in service in 1937 an took part in war in 1939 Type VIIB an sunk many ships through out war an some were risky he said almost had him killed an his crew he died in 1999..anyway my grampa told me cause i asked this to him about that how did plan attacks on large convoys an huge battleships an my gram pa just said of his expenice (when siged a large convoy i send reports to bdu an nearest uboat what i see without leting convory of our presnts an my task when 2 or 3 uboats be spreded out plan sent by small taping let others know the plan afther 1 angle on ship port other at the beam and other postaioned from behind one at beam fire 1st an 30secends then one behind fire an other wait 32 secends an fire at starbored side fires makeing the escort ship really confused an 3 uboats go in opsest coursee split away an chageing depth an speed every 2min) what my grand pa said an was intresting but too complex for me to understand but i can picture an imagine what ment. uboat tactics changed every day so it was a complex job an finding ways too attack an get communications through on planing attacks but works little by little just like if wolfs or like the Raptors plan there attacks before get there pray sometimes works some times dosn't most plans not go as planed but must take great cation plan attacks even if you taaked a huge battleship with many escorts has be done planed or the hunters would be the hunted...^^

OJS_Cornwall
05-23-2006, 10:37 AM
thanks everyone you have really cleared things up for me. Your uboat knowledge is truely amazing.

HeibgesU999
05-23-2006, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samuraiwarr1982:
actually your all wrong kind of i tell you cause my grand pa was a U-Boat captain in 2nd World War he was forced back in service in 1937 an took part in war in 1939 Type VIIB an sunk many ships through out war an some were risky he said almost had him killed an his crew he died in 1999..anyway my grampa told me cause i asked this to him about that how did plan attacks on large convoys an huge battleships an my gram pa just said of his expenice (when siged a large convoy i send reports to bdu an nearest uboat what i see without leting convory of our presnts an my task when 2 or 3 uboats be spreded out plan sent by small taping let others know the plan afther 1 angle on ship port other at the beam and other postaioned from behind one at beam fire 1st an 30secends then one behind fire an other wait 32 secends an fire at starbored side fires makeing the escort ship really confused an 3 uboats go in opsest coursee split away an chageing depth an speed every 2min) what my grand pa said an was intresting but too complex for me to understand but i can picture an imagine what ment. uboat tactics changed every day so it was a complex job an finding ways too attack an get communications through on planing attacks but works little by little just like if wolfs or like the Raptors plan there attacks before get there pray sometimes works some times dosn't most plans not go as planed but must take great cation plan attacks even if you taaked a huge battleship with many escorts has be done planed or the hunters would be the hunted...^^ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fantastic info!

Would your grandfather know which other ships were near him, or when he sent out the contact report would he just wait for the closest 2 or 3 ships to join him?

So they would surround the convoy or taskforce, and try to coordinate a simultaneous torpedo launch at a given time to have the escorts going in all directions at once. And they had to be prepared to react to the escort situation, or as you said the hunters quickly become the hunted.

He must have been a fascinating man to talk to. God rest his soul. My father was a combat infantryman in WWII in the Pacific and he passed away in 1996.

Bucketlung
05-23-2006, 05:48 PM
Hey Samuraiwarr1982, I don't mean to be nosy but please feel free to post more info about your Grandpa.

hueywolf123
05-23-2006, 08:05 PM
Wow, I am amazed daily at the different people we get on these posts, but samuraiwarr1982, that is an amazing and informative piece of info - to hear how they actually did go about convoy attacks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

samuraiwarr1982
05-24-2006, 06:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samuraiwarr1982:
actually your all wrong kind of i tell you cause my grand pa was a U-Boat captain in 2nd World War he was forced back in service in 1937 an took part in war in 1939 Type VIIB an sunk many ships through out war an some were risky he said almost had him killed an his crew he died in 1999..anyway my grampa told me cause i asked this to him about that how did plan attacks on large convoys an huge battleships an my gram pa just said of his expenice (when siged a large convoy i send reports to bdu an nearest uboat what i see without leting convory of our presnts an my task when 2 or 3 uboats be spreded out plan sent by small taping let others know the plan afther 1 angle on ship port other at the beam and other postaioned from behind one at beam fire 1st an 30secends then one behind fire an other wait 32 secends an fire at starbored side fires makeing the escort ship really confused an 3 uboats go in opsest coursee split away an chageing depth an speed every 2min) what my grand pa said an was intresting but too complex for me to understand but i can picture an imagine what ment. uboat tactics changed every day so it was a complex job an finding ways too attack an get communications through on planing attacks but works little by little just like if wolfs or like the Raptors plan there attacks before get there pray sometimes works some times dosn't most plans not go as planed but must take great cation plan attacks even if you taaked a huge battleship with many escorts has be done planed or the hunters would be the hunted...^^ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fantastic info!

Would your grandfather know which other ships were near him, or when he sent out the contact report would he just wait for the closest 2 or 3 ships to join him?

So they would surround the convoy or taskforce, and try to coordinate a simultaneous torpedo launch at a given time to have the escorts going in all directions at once. And they had to be prepared to react to the escort situation, or as you said the hunters quickly become the hunted.

He must have been a fascinating man to talk to. God rest his soul. My father was a combat infantryman in WWII in the Pacific and he passed away in 1996. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes he said that he still followed the convoy while waitng cannot surfece ships give away there location instad the way had plan is by taping there hull like coded that only german captains know how used this plan there attacks..yes my grandpa was very good man an sad he passed away but in a good place.

HeibgesU999
05-25-2006, 12:44 PM
Are you saying, when the 3 or 4 uboats were close to each other but submerged, they would tap on their hulls using Morse Code to plan out the attack?

Now that is truly fascinating!!!!

Which did they use more: Contact Reports or the Direction Finding Beacon?

samuraiwarr1982
05-25-2006, 04:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
Are you saying, when the 3 or 4 uboats were close to each other but submerged, they would tap on their hulls using Morse Code to plan out the attack?

Now that is truly fascinating!!!!

Which did they use more: Contact Reports or the Direction Finding Beacon? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


yes they did use this but codes kept changeing every time cause as was said from before tatics changed everyday an not always same~yes they used more on the direction reports as if can imgaine everything when going for large convoys an task forces an Captal ships u-boat fallowing an nearest u-boats answear the call for help an there plan start an then thats where attacks begin~all the attacks that u-boats in world war 2 was done by useing nature prey like wolfs or how would pack of raptors~is amazeing how much learn from my grand pa~

samuraiwarr1982
05-28-2006, 12:25 AM
bump~

joeap
05-28-2006, 05:52 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif Smells funny to me...wouldn't the tapping alert the escorts?

It's like HeibgesU999 said, the yattacked the same target but not in a coordinated way. Ask at U-boat net for more info.

VikingGrandad
05-28-2006, 06:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samuraiwarr1982:
actually your all wrong kind of i tell you cause my grand pa was a U-Boat captain in 2nd World War... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very interesting infromation. Do you mind me asking what your grandpa's name was?

joeap
06-01-2006, 03:50 AM
bump waiting for an answer.

samuraiwarr1982
06-02-2006, 12:19 AM
Oh my Grand pa name was Erich Topp

my grand pa was born July 2, 1914 and died last dear on December 26, 2005

HeibgesU999
06-02-2006, 12:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif Smells funny to me...wouldn't the tapping alert the escorts?

It's like HeibgesU999 said, the yattacked the same target but not in a coordinated way. Ask at U-boat net for more info. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think what he means was, when they were still pretty far away from the convoy, but maybe still in radar range, the would use the tapping if they were near each other.

I suppose that earlier in the war, they could have just surfaced because there was no danger of allied radar, and little danger of air attack, and they could have just talked their plan out.

But I agree that its still not as coordinated as a flight of P-51 Mustangs zooming down to straff a train one at a time, or a Companty of Abrams tanks assaulting across an objective in unison.