PDA

View Full Version : Polish & French squadrons in the RAF...?



Extreme_One
03-28-2004, 03:38 AM
Did they speak in their native tongue or did they speak English? If they spoke English then did they have lessons when they arrived in 'Blighty' or had they already learnt the language at home?

Sorry in advance for my ignorance...

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

Extreme_One
03-28-2004, 03:38 AM
Did they speak in their native tongue or did they speak English? If they spoke English then did they have lessons when they arrived in 'Blighty' or had they already learnt the language at home?

Sorry in advance for my ignorance...

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

ibu.hard
03-28-2004, 03:59 AM
AFAIK Polish squadron spoke english.

Black Sheep
03-28-2004, 04:17 AM
I do remember reading though in one book that the Poles constantly chattered away to each other in their native tongue during combat, much to the annoyance of their Brit flight leads...

I'm afraid I don't recall the book's title or author though... if it comes back to me I'll post here.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/ilsigs/Spitfire.jpg
---------------------------------------------------------
Per Ardua ad Astra

PlaneEater
03-28-2004, 04:22 AM
"Repeat please!"
http://ww2-aviation.net/polavhist/img/hurr_rfa.jpg

Lasst das Hollentor offen,
Es FRIERT HIER OBEN!

Extreme_One
03-28-2004, 04:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moo.Cow:
I do remember reading though in one book that the Poles constantly chattered away to each other in their native tongue during combat, much to the annoyance of their Brit flight leads...

I'm afraid I don't recall the book's title or author though... if it comes back to me I'll post here.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/ilsigs/Spitfire.jpg
---------------------------------------------------------
Per Ardua ad Astra<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool!
I'd really like to see if you could substantiate that please mate...

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

Boandlgramer
03-28-2004, 04:24 AM
extreme, havn‚¬īt seen Dark Blue World ?
before they czech pilots went to combat, they had to learn english.

Boandlgramer
http://images.google.de/images?q=tbn:10LP6FCHtuYJ:www.vhts.de/bilder/wappenbayern.jpg
The first Time i saw Chuck Yeager, i shot him down. Petrosillius Zwacklmann (Held ).
http://images.google.de/images?q=tbn:negrFY2J26MJ:www.thienemann.de/img/rauber_5.jpg
Wachtmeister Dimpfelmoser in Verfolgung von R√¬§uber Hotzenplotz, der auf sch√¬§ndliche Weise Oma‚¬īs Kaffeem√ľhle in seinen Besitz brachte.
Gut, dass es Wachtmeister gibt , unbestechlich und tapfer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

leadbaloon
03-28-2004, 04:37 AM
Extereme one - If you haven't seen Dark Blue World, stop what you are doing right now and get to your local video/DVD rental shop and get it. As Boandl.. said, the pilots have to take English lessons before they are allowed to fly (much to their frustration). There's a great scene where one of the pilots tries to leave his class in a fit of frustration over some of the idiosyncrasies of the language and the matronly teacher blocks his way explaining that he's doing his bit to stop the Nazis, and she will not allow him to stop her doing hers.

Extreme_One
03-28-2004, 04:43 AM
Cheers guys.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Let me ask you this then:-

Is it a silly idea I had then of using a Polish regiment and 'dressing the planes' in RAF skins so that we'd hear Polish chatter from our accompanying flight?
Based on the above responses it does seem a silly idea - but I can't come to terms with my Polish buddies of 316 Squadron speaking with Scottish, English and South African accents...

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

tonywizzz
03-28-2004, 04:46 AM
Most polish aircrew did not speak English when they arrived in UK, although a lot spoke French, they were predominately trained in Blackpool, my forum photo left is my father and it was taken in Blackpool. They mostly knew the basics of flying English when they flew in the RAF, however tended to revert to their native tounge when excited !! Much to the annoyance of their British flight instructors.

http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v79/Tony_Wizzz/il2/RAF%20307%20Squadron%20Wijaszko/

BerkshireHunt
03-28-2004, 04:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Extreme_One:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Moo.Cow:
I do remember reading though in one book that the Poles constantly chattered away to each other in their native tongue during combat, much to the annoyance of their Brit flight leads...

I'm afraid I don't recall the book's title or author though... if it comes back to me I'll post here.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/ilsigs/Spitfire.jpg
---------------------------------------------------------
Per Ardua ad Astra<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool!
I'd really like to see if you could substantiate that please mate...

_S! Simon_
---------------------------

I think I can substantiate that- I remember reading a book which said as much. It was Sqdn Ldr Johnny Kent's autobiography 'One of The Few'. He was a Canadian who led 303 (Polish Sqn) during the Battle of Britain- he said the Poles were given English lessons but in the heat of battle they would lapse into their native tongue with the result that neither he nor the Ground Controller could understand what was going on. They did eventually solve this as the Poles became more fluent in RAF English- they really only needed a few vital phrases like Break Left/ Break Right to begin with.
It's a good read and I see that Amazon UK has paperback copies for sale at only ‚£1.99. This is from Amazon:

From the Back Cover
A TRIUMPHANT STORY OF COMBAT IN THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN
Johnny Kent grew up in Winnipeg and was bitten by the flying bug at an early age. He became the youngest licenced pilot in Canada when he was only seventeen. He grabbed experience and flying hours wherever and whenever he could and was constantly on the lookout for a career in flying. His chance came when he was offered a short service commission with the RAF in the 1930s.
He went on to become the leader of one of the most successful fighter squadrons in the Second World War. Group Captain Johnny Kent's skilful leadership helped the famous 303 Squadron to play such a decisive part in the Battle of Britain, and won him the highest Polish military award, the Virtuti Militari.
This is Captain Kent's own story of his life in the RAF - from his struggles as a boy in the wilds of Canada to get into the air, through his experiences as a test pilot at Farnborough and his constant efforts be flying wherever the action was. It is a story of triumphant achievement in combat and of a man whose air force career certainly picked him out as 'One of the Few.'

Cheers

BerkshireHunt
03-28-2004, 04:53 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Extreme_One:
Cheers guys.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Let me ask you this then:-

Is it a silly idea I had then of using a Polish regiment and 'dressing the planes' in RAF skins so that we'd hear Polish chatter from our accompanying flight?
Based on the above responses it does seem a silly idea - but I can't come to terms with my Polish buddies of 316 Squadron speaking with Scottish, English and South African accents...

_S! Simon_

Simon, that's a very good point and something which occured to me as I listened to your Battle of Britain voice pack. I think in the Battle of Britain film there is reference to the language difficulties with either the Czechs or Poles (can't recall). If we were to hear Polish chatter we should really also hear the English speaking Flight Leader telling them, "English only!"- it was strictly against regulations for a mixture of languages to be used for obvious reasons.
Nevertheless I think your suggestion is the best solution.

leadbaloon
03-28-2004, 04:54 AM
Why are you still here? Go and get Dark Blue World this instant.

I'm not sure I follow exactly what you mean regarding the voices. It would be good to have Polish and Chzech pilots that sound Polish or Chzech, maybe even saying the odd phrase in their native tongue to confuse and annoy us staunchly English types that refuse to learn any other language. I don't get how you'd implement it to the specifically Polish planes though. Isn't the voice selection random? I.e. If you choose to fly RAF can you predetermine which planes will have which voices? Or will the computer choose an "English" voice at random.

It'd be cool if I could use the Irish sounding pilot for my wingman with the Paddy Finucane skin.

Extreme_One
03-28-2004, 05:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by leadbaloon:
Why are you still here? Go and get Dark Blue World this instant.

I'm not sure I follow exactly what you mean regarding the voices. It would be good to have Polish and Chzech pilots that sound Polish or Chzech, maybe even saying the odd phrase in their native tongue to confuse and annoy us staunchly English types that refuse to learn any other language. I don't get how you'd implement it to the specifically Polish planes though. Isn't the voice selection random? I.e. If you choose to fly RAF can you predetermine which planes will have which voices? Or will the computer choose an "English" voice at random.

It'd be cool if I could use the Irish sounding pilot for my wingman with the Paddy Finucane skin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm at work! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

What I mean is that "we" would be flying as RAF pilots so we'd be hearing the RAF chatter pack mainly. I'm thinking of some missions which we will fly alongside the Polish 316 Squadron (I've even taken up skinning for this and created a really nice set of P-51b/c skins) so they will actually be Polish pilots (ie assigned to nationality: Poland regiment: none) and 'dressed' in my RAF skins. That way they'll be RAF pilots speaking Polish.

As I asked earlier - is it a silly idea?

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

tonywizzz
03-28-2004, 05:04 AM
BTW excellent site on Polish squadrons in the RAF here:-

http://www.geocities.com/skrzydla/

http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v79/Tony_Wizzz/il2/307logo.gif

http://img26.photobucket.com/albums/v79/Tony_Wizzz/il2/RAF%20307%20Squadron%20Wijaszko/

Black Sheep
03-28-2004, 06:47 AM
To be honest I think it's unlikely the title will come to me as it's a book I read in my teens - I'm now thirty five http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I have a nagging feeling though that it may have been an anecdote in Reach For The Skies, Bader's autobiography.

However, I'm sure there is additional evidence of this as BerkshireHunt suggets.

Personally, I think it's a great idea to somehow try and incorporate Polish voices into an RAF voice pack or similar. I had a vaguely similar idea myself; I fly Vb's almost exclusively since the release of AEP and have a bunch of magnificent Polish skins by a chap called Krzysztof.

Hope your idea comes off

http://mysite.freeserve.com/ilsigs/Spitfire.jpg
---------------------------------------------------------
Per Ardua ad Astra

[This message was edited by Moo.Cow on Sun March 28 2004 at 05:55 AM.]

Chuck_Older
03-28-2004, 07:53 AM
According to Kaz Budzik, in the heat of combat, instead of stumbling for the proper English phrase, the pilot's native tongue was often used.

I suppose he'd know...

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

Saburo_0
03-28-2004, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PlaneEater:
"Repeat please!"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Repeat Please!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

lol

horseback
03-28-2004, 12:26 PM
Bader and Tuck's biographies, as well as many others, mention similar incidents with Poles, Czechs, Norwegians, French, Belgian, Dutch, and, I suspect, American squadrons. "Official" business was done in English, with the Ground Control and Squadron and Flight Leaders, but in the heat of combat, it was quicker and more effective for them to use their native tongues.

A voice pack including these units could have orders and so on in accented and unaccented English (reflecting the speaker's origins), and the exclamations and calls for help in language of origin, punctuated by an occasional English accented demand that they speak English.

Good luck pulling THAT one off, Simon.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

KG10_Damien
03-28-2004, 12:36 PM
As for free french squadrons in the RAF, they used english as well. I advise that you read "the big show" from Pierre Clostermann, a great book. Sure, in the chatter, they used a word of french here and there, but they generally were yelled at by their leaders for doing so.

Black Sheep
03-28-2004, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horseback:

A voice pack including these units could have orders and so on in accented and unaccented English (reflecting the speaker's origins), and the exclamations and calls for help in language of origin, punctuated by an occasional English accented demand that they speak English.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hope Oleg is thinking along these lines for BoB - it would be very immersive, if a little confusing at times.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/ilsigs/Spitfire.jpg
---------------------------------------------------------
Per Ardua ad Astra

Bremspropeller
03-28-2004, 01:15 PM
I know there were germans fighting in the french foreign legion against Germany in the war, but were there also german pilots fighting in the RAF ?

I doubt that but, it's possible, isn't it ?

So don't let my die uneinformed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.brooksart.com/Ontheprowl.jpg
"Once upon the time..there was an aircraft that ruled the skies of Europe..."
http://www.virtual-jabog32.de
http://www.jg68.de.vu

Deathreaper666
03-28-2004, 04:17 PM
I like the way it is now. Each pilot regardless of side speaks their native tonugue. Now with the additional Japanese and RAF speech packs everything sounds right. The French speak french etc..

--------------
Death is certain, look forward to it.
--------------