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Matz0r
06-20-2004, 05:22 AM
Hi,
How did the weapon selection in the FW190 work? I find the cowling mounted MG's extremely annoying since they are blinding me as I shoot. I would like to see the option not to shoot the MG's in the FW190 - perhaps move all cannons to secondary fire button.

http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/fw3.jpg

Matz0r
06-20-2004, 05:22 AM
Hi,
How did the weapon selection in the FW190 work? I find the cowling mounted MG's extremely annoying since they are blinding me as I shoot. I would like to see the option not to shoot the MG's in the FW190 - perhaps move all cannons to secondary fire button.

http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/fw3.jpg

jurinko
06-20-2004, 05:53 AM
it was done so in IL-2 but then it was changed. They told the real buttons in Fw were grouped so.

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Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

Matz0r
06-20-2004, 06:48 AM
So you couldn't opt not to shoot MG's at the same time... If I were a FW pilot back in WWII, I would ask my ground crew not to load the MG's to save myself from the blinding fire. Kurt Tank must've been really crazy, creating an aircraft that's good at almost everything but placing the seat so low you cannot see forward, adding a bar blocking the revi sight and installing master strobe MG's right infront of the cockpit window.

http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/fw3.jpg

Fennec_P
06-20-2004, 08:39 AM
The real FW-190 had switches to disable and enable weapons. You can see these in the virtual cockpit.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
06-20-2004, 09:04 AM
the ammo counters are wrong alsow.

in the Game they are showing the Cowling MG's and the Inner Mg151/20, the two red lights show the Cowling MG's too.

in Rl.

the Counters showed, inner and outer MG151/20 ; MGFF(MG151/20).
The small red lights next to them showed the status of the MG17 / MG131.

http://www.g-c-p.de/sigbib/hh/blacksheep.jpg

DarthBane_
06-20-2004, 09:22 AM
Where is the switch to turn off mg17? It is so sad to have a6 and others with so many failures implemented by developers, at least give us the switch.

Matz0r
06-20-2004, 09:44 AM
I'm getting extremely annoyed with the obvious developer errors on the FW190! Why do they hate this aircraft so much?

http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/fw3.jpg

Hunde_3.JG51
06-20-2004, 03:35 PM
In RL the FW-190 was like this. There was a small button at the front of the control column (stick) that allowed you to select what your firing button/trigger would do. Your options were:

1. Cowl mg's and inner cannons
2. Outter cannons
3. All guns

So in this way FB is accurate. However, as mentioned before there are three "cut out switches that allow each gun to fire independently." These can be seen in game by your right elbow, facing up on the flat panel on your right side. So I imagine you could use cut-off switches to disable cowl mg's and set switch on control column to fire all guns, this should allow you to fire all cannons and no mg's. At least that is my take on it.



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Formerly Kyrule2
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[This message was edited by Hunde_3.JG51 on Sun June 20 2004 at 02:44 PM.]

HeinzBar
06-20-2004, 03:39 PM
S!,
It would be nice to break the link connecting the fuselage MGs w/ the wing root cannons. However, it's suppose to be historically correct. What isn't correct are the assinine, arcade muzzleflashes found in FB. Eliminate the cartoonish muzzleflash and your problem, as well as everyone else's, will be solved.

HB

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Hunde_3.JG51
06-20-2004, 03:44 PM
Another inaccuracy is that on the FW-190's with bomb loadouts there was a panel that allowed you to select delay, or no delay for bombs. It also alowed you to select vertical, or horizontal bomb mode, though I'm not sure what this did.

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WWMaxGunz
06-20-2004, 04:13 PM
Real gun selectors with arcade blinding flashes from the guns.

Willey
06-20-2004, 04:34 PM
FB even has a "gunpod" switch. The dudes JUST have to alter it from the outer guns to the MGs. Before they changed the trigger layout, the first one triggered the MGs and the second one fired all cannons while the gunpod switch could cut off the outer pair. Now it still cuts off the outer pair, but it's useless as they are solely on one button. Now, the button should cut off the MGs. I don't think it's that hard to make it like this...

Steaky_361st
06-20-2004, 09:20 PM
As if it werent hard enough to see out of the 190 cockpit as it was...

Steaky

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
06-21-2004, 04:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willey:
FB even has a "gunpod" switch. The dudes JUST have to alter it from the outer guns to the MGs. Before they changed the trigger layout, the first one triggered the MGs and the second one fired all cannons while the gunpod switch could cut off the outer pair. Now it still cuts off the outer pair, but it's useless as they are solely on one button. Now, the button should cut off the MGs. I don't think it's that hard to make it like this...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i secend that!

http://www.g-c-p.de/sigbib/hh/blacksheep.jpg

DarthBane_
06-21-2004, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steaky_361st:
As if it werent hard enough to see out of the 190 cockpit as it was...

Steaky<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aparently not, plane has every single fictional disadvantige modeled, and all advantages turned off. We have non existent bar in front of revi and arcadish flashes, but no switches for selecting guns working. If plane was like this in rl, it wouldnt be produced, well pilots than didnt have simulators to practise blind shooting and flying like some members of this comunity who have mastered it after many hours of practise. I heard something like it is Olegs favorite plane, would be nice if Oleg start to favour spits and mustangs this way. Please mister stop loving FW series that much. There are plenty of ufos that deserve love.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
06-22-2004, 07:46 AM
bumb

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JG7_Rall
06-22-2004, 05:23 PM
bump

"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

DarthBane_
06-25-2004, 11:19 AM
You are giving up already? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Carnage2681
06-26-2004, 07:58 AM
Using the Bumb-Gun again

609IAP_Recon
06-26-2004, 08:49 PM
after putting in alot of 190 flying time, it's obvious that it's wrong.

what I don't understand is all this attention to detail to be accurate with switches and knobs and yet playability isn't even close to accurate.

If I could list one item of contempt about this game...it would have to be the 190 forward view, and the muzzle flashes.

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Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon

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Hunde_3.JG51
06-26-2004, 09:03 PM
What is funny is that the cut-off switches and the bomb panel I spoke about in my above post are both modelled in the cockpit yet they are not available in-game. Its not a big deal but given the quality and attention to detail (as mentioned above) of Oleg's and 1C's products it is strange. Oh well.

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DarthBane_
06-28-2004, 04:12 PM
Gun combo switch, NOW. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Magister__Ludi
06-28-2004, 06:41 PM
To me it's one of the most silly ideeas to have the cannons and MGs coupled, when they obviously do not have the same ballistics. This restrics the pilot to shoot only from very close distance or to set the same convergence for cannons and MGs and shoot only at convergence. Both are extremelly limiting and add a new cripple to an already butchered aircraft.

Since there were switches in the cockpit that decoupled the cannons and MGs, I can take the effort to open fire with both if I want to. But don't force me to waste ammunition just because it is impossible to assign keys for those switches http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

PzKpfw
06-28-2004, 06:46 PM
The below is an exerpt from an AA report from an unamed III.JG/301 pilot, flying Fw 190A-8/9s on 26.11.44* concerning weapons useage:

As Schwarmfuhrer of the leading arrowhead I selected my target. Flying through the enemy's tracers was like standing under a shower. In all my previous attacks I had first tried to knock out the tail gunner who, in my opinion, presented the greatest danger.

And I opened fire with my MGs at a range of 400 metres I could see my own tracers disappearing into his tail turret and rear fuselage. Slowly I changed my aim to the left wing, between the fu****e and port inner engine, at the same time pressing the button of my 20 mm cannon.

The effect was immediately apparent, with a growing trail of smoke pouring from the engine and panels flying off the wing. The closer in I got, the more effective my hits became until the Liberator slid out of formation, its left wing blazing. Moments later it exploded in mid-air.

*See: Weal John. Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Aces of the Westren Front pp.81-82

Notice he makes no mention of the inner MG 151 being on the MG 131 trigger?. Their are many more excerpts like the above from Fw 190 pilots who tell of useing the MG 17/131 to sight, then hitting the cannon button after the MG 17/131 tracers showed hits, their is no mention of hitting gun switches on & off etc, to select MG or cannon only.

Regards, John Waters

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Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

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The one that gets you is the one that you'll never see.
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"After 44 we called the new models the 'bumps', because every new model had another bump or hump on the fuselage, which naturally was particularly bad for the flight characteristics of the aircraft."

Walter Krupinski: on the Bf 109...
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"The damn Jerries have stuck their heads in the meatgrinder, and I've got hold of the handle."

Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. December 26, 1944.

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"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

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For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-Jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary period, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which is likely to be the more ominous for the Axis--an American decision that this is sport, or that it is business."
--D. W. Brogan, The American Character

Bastables
06-29-2004, 02:49 AM
RAF evaluation reports on the Fw190 A3 concur with the trigger/gun setup of IL-2. The Fw190 Pilot manuals I seen of the A-4 and A-8 concur with the trigger/gun setup of IL2. But since Anecdotal evidence is held in high regard here: ?I then realised that I had completely forgotten about the knob at the top of the control stick that fired my outer cannon, and had used the trigger for the inner cannon and the machine gun.? Ottomar Kruse Fw 190 A8 ?Blue 6? II/JG 26. Caldwell JG 26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe. pg 257. (After his first victory over a P51).

The trigger/gun set up of the synchronised weapons fired by the trigger and the outer unsynchronised guns by the top button is the standard setup for the Fw190. You could fiddle the activation to fire only one pair of guns with the trigger or all guns with the trigger.

In August of 1944, he moved on to train in the Me109G Gustav. This training included gunnery practice. With a minimum of instrument training, Gottfried was cleared for combat. He and a handful of fellow graduates were assigned to Jagdgeschwader 53 ?Pik As?, stationed near Aachen, Northwest Germany. Their assignment there was to engage the escort fighters of the waves of U.S. B-17?s in order to allow neighboring Focke Wulf 190 units to attack the bombers themselves.
Gottfried was considered a newcomer, referred to by his elder pilots as a ?Haes-chen?, or ?Little Rabbit?. As such, he was assigned to be an observer of tactics. During one of these early missions, the pilot of a British Spitfire took him for easy prey. However, after a 15-minute dogfight, Gottfried disabled the Spit, forcing the pilot to bail out. The English pilot parachuted down near the JG53 base and was taken prisoner. Leutnant Gottfried Dulias and Leftenant Fred Browning had the opportunity to discuss the dogfight and the fliers? life in general. Gottfried commented that he believed that it was the superiority of his plane and not necessarily his skill that earned him this first victory.

Hunde_3.JG51
06-29-2004, 06:24 AM
Bastables. In my above post I agree with what you are saying that the setup as now is accurate. However, as I said there are cut-off switches that would simply disable a gun set if desired. The switches are modelled in FW-190 cockpit in FB, they are right by your right elbow on the right panel. Still, not a big deal if its changed or not.

I take it you met Mr. Dulias? A note to your sig is that when he spoke to the downed Spitfire pilot, he also said it was the superiority of the 109 that was the reason for Dulias's victory.

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DarthBane_
06-29-2004, 06:36 AM
Cut-off switches that would simply disable a gun set if desired. Now! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

DarthBane_
06-29-2004, 06:37 AM
Darkness calls and it doesnt like to be kept waiting.
I am still waiting! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Fw-190D-9
06-30-2004, 02:30 AM
I was wondering about the gun counters at the top of the panel. I always was under the impresion the one counter was for the Mgs, the other for the cannons, and the others for external stores. Is this thinking correct?

As for the muzzle flashes, I never liked them to begine with, I always thought they were over done.

JV44Rall
07-13-2004, 10:37 PM
While fixing the selection switch, I'd like them to fix the can't-bail-out bug that seems to affect the FWs.

Nothing's more annoying than losing a wing and then hitting ctrl-e, with no effect. I would assume that bailing out of a FW was easier than bailing out of most anthing else. FWs had an explosive charge pretty much ripped the canopy off of it's tracks and allowed an easy exit.

I'm amazed when I blast the wing off of a P51 and the pilot bails out no problem. Then I remember, it's not a FW.

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg

faustnik
07-14-2004, 12:19 AM
Fly it more Recon, you will forget about the limited view altogether.

If I have one complaint to air it's the climb rate of the 190As relative to everything else.
But, don't say it, "I is wrong". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif Fortunately, even if we can't climb, we can go really fast! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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IIJG69-Niklaus
07-15-2004, 11:22 AM
I've read somewhere,that the pilots often ask to their groung crew to retire the Mg17.

Actually,in the game,we only can retire the Mg17 in the 190A4,but it also retire the MG/FF.
Why not only the 4 20mm?? and why not on all Fw190???

They are totally useless,ennemy plane smile when we shoot them with 7.92 and as Matzor say,they blind the pilot when firing...

Other thing,the bomb launchers/rack?? stay even in default armament?? Or when we take pods Mk108-103 on 190A8 or A9,or same,I don't remember.

Bye...

ZG77_Lignite
07-15-2004, 02:58 PM
Hunde, I was under the impression that the switches at the right elbow were electric circuit breakers. Now while it is true that this would indeed disable a set of guns if switched 'off', it seems likely to me that more than one electrical device would be included upon that circuit, given the FW190 propensity for electrical stuff.

It would be wonderful to see a specific labeling of these breakers, maybe Butch2k, Frankyboy?

Hunde_3.JG51
07-15-2004, 05:28 PM
Lignite, this is a direct quote from FW-190 in Combat by Alfred Price:

"In addition to this it is possible, by means of cut-out switches which are situated on the starboard side of the cockpit, to fire each pair of guns independently."

I would guess that this means that it was "possible" in the useable sense, without disabling other systems. At least that is how I take it but I may be wrong. I could have swore that I read somewhere else about disabling guns with cut-out switches, and that after re-enabling a certain pair of guns you had to wait a minute or so to fire them because you ran the risk of overloading a battery of some sort. Don't know if that makes any sense but that is what I remember reading (I think http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif).

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