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View Full Version : PC Gamer article on Patches apparently we (il2 community) take patches for Granted



Airmail109
02-15-2006, 09:26 AM
Just read an article in PC Gamer, where IL2 was mentioned, they interviewed a UBI representitive about how many free planes had been given away, and apparently the guy "lamented that they had given away over 50 free aircraft", PC Gamer also went on to say something along the lines that no one in the IL2 community really appreciated the free aircraft and they took it for granted. So im going to say thanks Oleg! Ill always buy your products, I have the feeling when BOB comes out it will be the end of an era and we will never see so many free planes again.

SO I reckon we should all E-mail Ubi and Oleg saying thankyou so they treat us nicely in the future......

Airmail109
02-15-2006, 09:26 AM
Just read an article in PC Gamer, where IL2 was mentioned, they interviewed a UBI representitive about how many free planes had been given away, and apparently the guy "lamented that they had given away over 50 free aircraft", PC Gamer also went on to say something along the lines that no one in the IL2 community really appreciated the free aircraft and they took it for granted. So im going to say thanks Oleg! Ill always buy your products, I have the feeling when BOB comes out it will be the end of an era and we will never see so many free planes again.

SO I reckon we should all E-mail Ubi and Oleg saying thankyou so they treat us nicely in the future......

Chuck_Older
02-15-2006, 09:39 AM
Ubi laments?!

Ubi laments?!?!

With the stuff they have messed up, they have the guts to lament anything concerning this sim?

With the restrictions they put on Oleg concerning the PF CDs, and the *ahem* other screwups in PF that are their fault, they lament?

I really have to admire them for their guts

I personally remember the days of zero support from game developers, and I appreciate every free add-on and update and patch we get

PC Gamer probably polled some players that would give them the response they wanted to get. Always be very leary of polls, they can be manipulated. I can "prove" Santa Claus either exists or doesn't exist, if I poll the right people.

Sounds to me like PC Gamer is making itself a little drama

Markku38
02-15-2006, 09:42 AM
Maybe PC Gamer is jealousy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyway, big http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif to Oleg and team with this game

Airmail109
02-15-2006, 09:46 AM
I can see where theyre coming from though, we get tonnes of free stuff and yet people still ***** and moan LOL oh well.....I was a bit dissapointed with no rockets for the mossie....so im guilty LOL! LOL chuck.

SeaFireLIV
02-15-2006, 09:52 AM
I have to agree with Aimail101 here. You can`t blame UBI really. There are MANY, MANY people who`re really appreciative of the Patches and free add-ons we`ve been getting for years, but there are the LOUD uappreciative sort who take, without thanks, then scream like little chicks for more or whine incessantly.

The bad always overwhelms the good and this is why I always talk up for the sim and constantly get called a `fan-man`.

I just hope that some of those who do not appreciate what they get might just see that there are people in UBI whoare obviously getting a little `annoyed` and this could mean that sooner or later, the free Addons could dry up, meaning nothing or PAY-TO-GET!

Chuck_Older
02-15-2006, 09:55 AM
I like 1C:Maddox Games...but I think Ubi makes a lot of mistakes

Jetbuff
02-15-2006, 09:56 AM
At ~200 flyable aircraft, around 50 of which we never paid for, I'm inclined to agree that there is far too much whinging and not enough thanks.

x__CRASH__x
02-15-2006, 10:03 AM
I don't think it's a black and white issue. You can be very appreciative of receiving such free add-ons as we have received, and still be disappointed in performance, or lack of inclusion, or whatever your personal beef may be.
I think in the wash it comes out as us as a community being unappreciative, but I also think you will be hard pressed to find anyone who says that they aren't appreciative of the upgrades. Honestly, who turns their nose at such thing? No one!

So, Thanks Oleg and crew! You've done a fantastic job over the years. If I ever make it to Moscow, there is a bottle of Vodka with your name on it! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

csThor
02-15-2006, 10:05 AM
I must second Chuck. If Maddox Games lamented I'd be fine with it (as it would be far too true). But Ubi should lower their heads in shame, stroll over to the next corner and think about their mistakes for ... uh ... let's say ten years.

After the stuff they've screwed up (PF development, information policy turned into some secretive need-to-know basis, initial refusal to publish "russian addons" ... Do I have to go on??) they should be the last to even make a sound.

Doug_Thompson
02-15-2006, 10:07 AM
Whining or praise isn't that big a factor, unfortunately. What is worrisome is that corporate (UBI) has realized how much free stuff they are giving away, and realizing how much they could charge for it.

Like I tell my kids: A computer is a device invented to make sure you are charged for everything you can be charged for.

TheGozr
02-15-2006, 10:20 AM
UBI always placed IL2 in the corner and make FragDolls at the facade or those Xbox Games. UBI is totally incompetent in the matter of showing and marketing the IL2 series.

TC_Stele
02-15-2006, 10:20 AM
I think that what the rep said is grossly mistaken. There are a few people here who dont appreciate and take for granted the planes. I think I speak for a great majority of the community by saying we are indeed appreciative for the new planes, however I also think we're entitled to our opinion of the FM/DM, etc. In fact thats how some changes were made for some aircraft in the game to reflect a bit more of reality. Now just because we might have a differing opinions of the new planes being released, doesnt mean we're taking everything for granted.

"no one appreciates.....?" I dont think that rep ever bothered coming to our forum..

HarlockGN
02-15-2006, 10:23 AM
I would go very slow by mistalking for gold whatever is written on PCgamer. It's one of the least professional gamning magazines i've ever seen and i wouldn't be surprised to hear that they warped the words of the UBI representative to make him say what they wanted him to say.

SnailRunner
02-15-2006, 10:26 AM
double edged sword here..

1. Community seems werry harsh but most do the "debating" because of some things in game that might be improved. These dedicates alot of time with data, graphs, engine lay outs etc

2. you need to know the community to understand it, when i was new and came to these boards i got a shock on how unpolite people was to Oleg after eatch patch, but when looking back, the names complaining is the same over and over and over again.....

3. Ubisux needs to dust infront of its own door. Mistakes by them have caused alot of heat on Oleg (PF when released - Legal isues with Grumman and others) if a game magazine wantet to get an idea about how dedicatet a player base the IL2 series have, they should have asked the players, not the distributor (super king kong Bill gates like suit dressed monkeys)

They are not the ones "giving" us anything, the one giving us anything is 1c maddox games and the dedication of hes staff, not these ......... have to stop, this actualy hit me right on the nerve......

SR

Lerxster
02-15-2006, 10:30 AM
Ubisoft laments... IL2 community has been supported fantastically by Oleg and team and the community love it...

Lock On however has been completely kicked in the knackers by Ubisoft... Thank god for the people at ED!

Jetbuff
02-15-2006, 10:34 AM
Ubisoft's alleged greed is neither surprising nor unusual. Wouldn't you want your business to make money too? And no, they don't necessarily care if they sell a great flight-sim or an arcade shoot 'em up. What do they care so long as the money keeps coming in.

What is surprising is that they have continued to support Oleg this long inspite of the incessant bashing they get on their own forums. Let's be realistic here, Ubi owes us nothing - at least from their point of view. We don't owe them anything either. However, bashing them on the forums is hardly conducive to bringing them around to our way of thinking. Bullying people to do what you want only works on the school playground and even then only temporarily.

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-15-2006, 11:06 AM
Throughout all the patches, addons and everything else we've been given, there are many who've stated (in their 'thank you' letters) that they ARE appreciative and would gladly pay for much of the content we've been graciously given.

I know that much of the motivation to the production of this series is simply because Oleg likes it. As he has stated himself, they are a 'for-profit' company as well and can make considerably more doing other things.

I'm appreciative for we have (AND for what we'll yet recieve!). UBI has made some blunders, but I'm also thankful to them for being a conduit and sticking with 1:C.

My .02c



TB

crazyivan1970
02-15-2006, 11:32 AM
I would suggest to you guys to have a reality check. This is SOFTWARE BUSINESS. I will never justify UBI for putting IL2 in the corner like they did from human perspective....but from the business perspective we cannot judge them. It`s all about money, end of story. If our community was measuring in millions, it would be totally different approach. That`s life folks. There is no need to slam UBI for lack of interest to IL2 series. I am going to say something REALLY crazy, maybe we should thank UBI for letting us be? Yes? No?

As far as undying support and free toys from Oleg and the Co go... i`ll keep most of the comments to myself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Doug_Thompson
02-15-2006, 11:44 AM
I'll say something crazy.

What are the two of the most recent, realistic simulations on the market.

IL-2 and Silent Hunter III.

What's the company that put out both of those?

Ubi.

There have been a few others -- mostly by niche publishers.

RegRag1977
02-15-2006, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
I would suggest to you guys to have a reality check. This is SOFTWARE BUSINESS. I will never justify UBI for putting IL2 in the corner like they did from human perspective....but from the business perspective we cannot judge them. It`s all about money, end of story. If our community was measuring in millions, it would be totally different approach. That`s life folks. There is no need to slam UBI for lack of interest to IL2 series. I am going to say something REALLY crazy, maybe we should thank UBI for letting us be? Yes? No?

As far as undying support and free toys from Oleg and the Co go... i`ll keep most of the comments to myself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if someone does something wrong or bad but in a business perspective, we should say anything, i see... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Sorry Mr Ivan, i have to say i disagree, though i use to like your posts in general http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Regards! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

crazyivan1970
02-15-2006, 01:50 PM
You can like my posts or not, i am just expressing my opinion, if you have your own...by all means, please share. Or at least point out the wrong and bads. Otherwise, your statement is too generic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

danjama
02-15-2006, 01:57 PM
I stopped reading PCG because of their views on this game and its community, their narrow minded a holes in that magazine, and i hope they go bust

jds1978
02-15-2006, 02:02 PM
i personally would love to see Maddox ditch Ubisoft

As for PC Gamer, I've never heard of them

carguy_
02-15-2006, 02:08 PM
The lamenting guy certainly was right.They gave away those.

I wish only that they substracted from that figure a number of planes made by 3rd party for free(not payed by 1C).

Ofcourse Ubi can make us pay and certainly many ppl take new planes for granted.I think things will go on like in CFS JUST BECAUSE it is a marketing success.It doesn`t have to be realistic,bugfree or supported by the devs.


I know one thing I WILL NOT PAY FOR ADDON THAT HAS FEW FLYABLES IN IT.HEAR ME UBI?YOU WILL HAVE TO WORK YOUR GUTS OUT TO MAKE ME SATISFIED BEFORE I PAY A SILLY PRICE LIKE PPL DO WITH CFS.

BITE ME!!!

Doug_Thompson
02-15-2006, 02:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
I wish only that they substracted from that figure a number of planes made by 3rd party for free(not payed by 1C). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hear the word, even though it still represents a net cost for Ubi. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I know one thing I WILL NOT PAY FOR ADDON THAT HAS FEW FLYABLES IN IT.HEAR ME UBI?YOU WILL HAVE TO WORK YOUR GUTS OUT TO MAKE ME SATISFIED BEFORE I PAY A SILLY PRICE LIKE PPL DO WITH CFS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. I waited until Pacific Fighters was down to $20 before buying it. PF was a glorified expansion kit and a long-shot at attracting a new market.

WOLFMondo
02-15-2006, 02:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I like 1C:Maddox Games...but I think Ubi makes a lot of mistakes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Chuck_Older
02-15-2006, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
I wish only that they substracted from that figure a number of planes made by 3rd party for free(not payed by 1C). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hear the word, even though it still represents a net cost for Ubi. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I know one thing I WILL NOT PAY FOR ADDON THAT HAS FEW FLYABLES IN IT.HEAR ME UBI?YOU WILL HAVE TO WORK YOUR GUTS OUT TO MAKE ME SATISFIED BEFORE I PAY A SILLY PRICE LIKE PPL DO WITH CFS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. I waited until Pacific Fighters was down to $20 before buying it. PF was a glorified expansion kit and a long-shot at attracting a new market. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

PF wsn't supposed to be an add-on, though. It was conceived as stand-alone, and that ws that. The merged aspect came later in the design process. Then the troubles...so it ended up being a fairly good add-on...but it wasn't supposed to be reduced to that state at all

WOLFMondo
02-15-2006, 02:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
.but from the business perspective we cannot judge them. It`s all about money, end of story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But yet they publish IL2 and PF which are not great cash earners, but they do earn profit. They minute they stop then they might re evaluate things maybe.

Having a company like 1C on there books is a good thing though, they do make allot of games and put then all through Ubi on the western market.

Airmail109
02-15-2006, 02:21 PM
Funny thing is Danjama I think they are right this time....

Grendel-B
02-15-2006, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheGozr:
UBI always placed IL2 in the corner and make FragDolls at the facade or those Xbox Games. UBI is totally incompetent in the matter of showing and marketing the IL2 series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yet they DO publish and market the IL2 series. And they've been the ONLY major publisher to publish high quality flight simulators for many years now.

Would you rather have Ubi not release the simulators, with some very small company doing the job instead, with no marketing power, no power to put the boxes on the shelves, with no worldwide distribution?

Ubi is doing the great thing by continuing to support the IL2 series, even if they wouldn't know how to it better. But if they were wise with their money, they would publish something that sells more and gives better return to their money.

So better thank Ubisoft for their job here. Without them IL2 series might not be where it is today.

Capt.England
02-15-2006, 04:36 PM
Which PC Gamer are we talking about here?

The U.S. version or the U.K. version?

SnailRunner
02-15-2006, 04:38 PM
Well.....yes IL2 is still on the market, ubi (as a big dude) might have gone over its normal ways of doing things for the IL2 series...

With many titles out there, there will be mistakes happening, its not intentional, but we are all just humans...and FB just had to get caught up in some of these mistakes..

I am one of them who bash Ubisoft, but you always blame the "guy" on top, not the footsoldier who made the mistakes. Silenthunter III is a game i have used mucth time in, and it have some bugs, and once again the community had to step in and clean the silenthunter game up (but still a great game)

BOB and Silenthunter V is the next games im awaiting, maby Pirates of the burning sea to, but lets se how the beta testing is going http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

We might be wrongly upset with Ubi, but we have to remember that they are giving support for FB, otherwise all these fancy forums would have been closed down ages ago and we would have no new stuff in the game. Ubi is supporning FB thats a fact, i just hope they will alow M`dude the time he needs on BOB. IMO the only prob there is, is that they anounce there will be more patches and stuff, they simply spoil us doing that. In the old days they used to say no news is good news, maby M`dude should start doing that instead of feeding us with more maby`s and If`s.....

im of to fly the 202 S! all

SweetMonkeyLuv
02-15-2006, 05:20 PM
As a software developer, myself (not of video games, however), I applaud the efforts of this dev crew. Where I come from, bug fixes are a necessity, and should never be "thankable". They are part of the implicit agreement my customer and I make with each other when I sell him my code; if it doesn't work as it was intended to and as I promised it would, I'll fix it for you for free. Anything above and beyond that, tho, and you better be ready to open your wallets.

So many of the patches are so much more than bug fixes, including the most recent one. We've gotten loads of stuff "on the house" from a dev crew that very obviously are quite passionate about the product they are selling. Never take this passion for granted, folks. Its something to be celebrated.

hobnail
02-15-2006, 05:21 PM
Heh, I was having a polite "discussion" on a Battlefield 2 board where people were defending EA's decision to charge money for content previously expected to be free (booster http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif packs).

They demanded an example of what developer bothers to give after-market content support anymore? The example of IL2 was quickly put and the size of Oleg's free contributions to the community were met with some incredulity by the twitch-gamers there.

I've bought every product that UBI/1C:Maddox has put in front of me, early and at full price. As a result of the goodwill of the developers I will continue to do so. Conversley I haven't given EA a penny since buying BF2 and intend to hold to this in the future.

VW-IceFire
02-15-2006, 05:31 PM
RIGHT! Obviously someone was monitoring only this forum with its incredible numbers of miscreants and not looking elsewhere in the community where the patches are almost universally appreciated and liked.

SO! Thanks to Oleg and his team for working so hard to keep this community and simulation alive in our hearts and minds. It really is appreciated by more people than you know!

I try and show my appreciation by creating innumerable campaigns...mostly for singleplayer but also dogfight maps for my favourite servers. I try and explore as many aspects and types of planes given to us to fly. My contribution is small...but I hope that it ensures that people who play the game, sometimes only in single player mode, are able to experience types of aircraft and scenarios they may never have considered as I had not previously considered.

One thing I would like to say, however, is that UbiSoft...bless them for giving us this opportunity to experience a top notch WWII fighter combat simulation of such wide and varrying scope...has seemingly been the reason that we didn't get a number of aircraft types and that the free patches for addon content have in a few cases ensured that we finally did get access. I don't feel that they should lament the process that has occured.

My feeling is that they should turn this feeling around and realize that this community is:

1) Significant and perhaps growing
2) Has a long term memory and will remember past indiscretion
3) Is willing to shell out the dollars if we believe the product is suitable

What they should take away from this is that we have a moderately sized community that is vocal, active, older than their typical FPS crowd, usually able to afford the software and accompanying hardware, and is likely willing to shell out the cash but are more cautious and expect a quality product that is finished and ready for release and not rushed to meet Christmas buying spree deadlines.

We as a community do alot to try and get people onboard, to help people with technical problems, and to point out flaws, bugs, problems, and so forth that appear to cause problems to the overall user experience. We're a built in audience now...don't discredit us. Particularly those of us who try and contribute what we can and support the product that we take to be so important.

I look forward to purchasing quality releases from Oleg and UbiSoft in the form of the three addon packs currently slated for release over the summer. Bring it on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thats my bit. I've said it.

carguy_
02-15-2006, 05:43 PM
Very true,IceFire.They seem to be forgetting how big contribution to this sim mission builders,Jiri,online war hosts,server hosts,skinners,mods,airwarfare and generally those guys who try to help and guide other have.

SweetMonkeyLuv
02-15-2006, 06:21 PM
Game makers, especially for PC games, would do well to start understanding that making their games more open for community extension is a very GOOD thing for them and their revenue. Games that are open and extendable will continue to generate revenue long after release.

gx-warspite
02-15-2006, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I stopped reading PCG because of their views on this game and its community, their narrow minded a holes in that magazine, and i hope they go bust </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And that's the kind of attitude that has led to the demise of flight sims. Along with rivet counting.

JG301_nils
02-15-2006, 07:04 PM
Not that it matter much now, but just what happened to 1C and BlueByte? Weren't BlueByte original the distrubitor for IL2 or am I totally lost?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

danjama
02-15-2006, 07:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gx-warspite:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I stopped reading PCG because of their views on this game and its community, their narrow minded a holes in that magazine, and i hope they go bust </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And that's the kind of attitude that has led to the demise of flight sims. Along with rivet counting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

how you work that out? dont dig me out ok thats my opinion, some of the**** i read in that magazine just made my blood boil, thats a fact, so whats ya problem?

Treetop64
02-15-2006, 07:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
At ~200 flyable aircraft, around 50 of which we never paid for, I'm inclined to agree that there is far too much whinging and not enough thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I cannot heartily agree with this enough in a thousand lifetimes!

LEXX_Luthor
02-15-2006, 07:16 PM
leitmotiv found a good interview that touched on this....
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Rick: I personally don't like the definitions of 'hardcore' and 'casual' simmers that exist around the web today. For two reasons, namely hardcore simmers I've known are unreasonable, unrealistic and have silly expectations <span class="ev_code_yellow">and are *never* happy</span>. Casual simmers on the other hand seem to reflect those interested in quick combat over serious missions. Both are nonsense. In Target For Tonight we are going into great detail as Ed mentioned, we're making it realistic but due to its scalability, it should apply to those seeking extreme detail as well as those seeking faster, easier action.

page 2 ~ http://www.womengamers.com/interviews/t4t.php
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

danjama
02-15-2006, 07:47 PM
what is target for tomight?

never mind i just looked

willyvic
02-15-2006, 08:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I stopped reading PCG because of their views on this game and its community, their narrow minded a holes in that magazine, and i hope they go bust </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is twice I have read basically the same thing from you. I replied in the other thread where you trashed PC Gamer by linking and showing that the mag has had nothing but praise for Oleg Maddox, IL2 and the like. It even gave it simulation of the year.

Please provide examples of what you are referring to.

WV.

danjama
02-15-2006, 08:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by willyvic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I stopped reading PCG because of their views on this game and its community, their narrow minded a holes in that magazine, and i hope they go bust </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is twice I have read basically the same thing from you. I replied in the other thread where you trashed PC Gamer by linking and showing that the mag has had nothing but praise for Oleg Maddox, IL2 and the like. It even gave it simulation of the year.

Please provide examples of what you are referring to.

WV. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didnt see those links?

No i dont have examples any more caus i threw the magazines out, what are you a spokesman of the magazine or something?!!

willyvic
02-15-2006, 09:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by willyvic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I stopped reading PCG because of their views on this game and its community, their narrow minded a holes in that magazine, and i hope they go bust </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is twice I have read basically the same thing from you. I replied in the other thread where you trashed PC Gamer by linking and showing that the mag has had nothing but praise for Oleg Maddox, IL2 and the like. It even gave it simulation of the year.

Please provide examples of what you are referring to.

WV. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didnt see those links?

No i dont have examples any more caus i threw the magazines out, what are you a spokesman of the magazine or something?!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I am not. I am just interested in what you base your opinion on. At this point is sounds like a bias based on unsubstantiated heresay. To say you don't like the mag is fine. To say you don't like the mag because of what you say they say is, without example, not credible.

WV.

danjama
02-15-2006, 09:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by willyvic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by willyvic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I stopped reading PCG because of their views on this game and its community, their narrow minded a holes in that magazine, and i hope they go bust </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is twice I have read basically the same thing from you. I replied in the other thread where you trashed PC Gamer by linking and showing that the mag has had nothing but praise for Oleg Maddox, IL2 and the like. It even gave it simulation of the year.

Please provide examples of what you are referring to.

WV. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didnt see those links?

No i dont have examples any more caus i threw the magazines out, what are you a spokesman of the magazine or something?!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I am not. I am just interested in what you base your opinion on. At this point is sounds like a bias based on unsubstantiated heresay. To say you don't like the mag is fine. To say you don't like the mag because of what you say they say is, without example, not credible.

WV. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not credible? Whats your point? I already said it is my opinion, i noticed over the period of 3 years of buying the magazine that their views became more and more negative regarding this game and its community and so i stopped reading the magazine and started being negative about it, its really that simple.

If i dont like Salad cream im gona say, just like i will say i dont like PCGamer. Credible or not, makes no difference to me...

gx-warspite
02-16-2006, 12:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gx-warspite:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I stopped reading PCG because of their views on this game and its community, their narrow minded a holes in that magazine, and i hope they go bust </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And that's the kind of attitude that has led to the demise of flight sims. Along with rivet counting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
how you work that out? dont dig me out ok thats my opinion, some of the**** i read in that magazine just made my blood boil, thats a fact, so whats ya problem? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
a. Your behavior proves their point.
b. Your sense of entitlement is disgusting. There isn't a company out there that's shown as much love to its community as 1C. Maybe Ubi wishes they made money off it, but you name me another publisher that's releasing flight sims.

willyvic
02-16-2006, 01:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by willyvic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by willyvic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I stopped reading PCG because of their views on this game and its community, their narrow minded a holes in that magazine, and i hope they go bust </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is twice I have read basically the same thing from you. I replied in the other thread where you trashed PC Gamer by linking and showing that the mag has had nothing but praise for Oleg Maddox, IL2 and the like. It even gave it simulation of the year.

Please provide examples of what you are referring to.

WV. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didnt see those links?

No i dont have examples any more caus i threw the magazines out, what are you a spokesman of the magazine or something?!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I am not. I am just interested in what you base your opinion on. At this point is sounds like a bias based on unsubstantiated heresay. To say you don't like the mag is fine. To say you don't like the mag because of what you say they say is, without example, not credible.

WV. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not credible? Whats your point? I already said it is my opinion, i noticed over the period of 3 years of buying the magazine that their views became more and more negative regarding this game and its community and so i stopped reading the magazine and started being negative about it, its really that simple.

If i dont like Salad cream im gona say, just like i will say i dont like PCGamer. Credible or not, makes no difference to me... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No difference here either then. In fact indifference to future postings is probably best on my part.

Good day,
WV

CaptAce
02-16-2006, 01:24 AM
I think there is a percentage of the community that complains and complains after each patch and are never truely satisfied. These people also tend to be some of the most vocal of the bunch. That leads to unfortunate insights and generalizations like the one made by the UBI rep. 90% of the Il2 community, as far as I can tell, are very happy with the game overall and all that Oleg and crew has done for us. I just wish the majority would speak up more often for all of the great things we've been given.

I will always buy any game Oleg and his team produces. Thanks for everything and I hope you realize how much your hard work is appreciated!

F19_Ob
02-16-2006, 03:13 AM
I've always bounced up and down with joy when patches came and I thought to myself; Oleg you old fox, what a smart way of keeping customers, old and new in the long run.
What a smart way of keeping the community alive until the next sim.

Oleg and team anyway won my heart and became family over the years unlike the competitors.
I for one will buy anything Oleg throws at us.
Any others feel similar??
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

OldMan____
02-16-2006, 04:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
I don't think it's a black and white issue. You can be very appreciative of receiving such free add-ons as we have received, and still be disappointed in performance, or lack of inclusion, or whatever your personal beef may be.
I think in the wash it comes out as us as a community being unappreciative, but I also think you will be hard pressed to find anyone who says that they aren't appreciative of the upgrades. Honestly, who turns their nose at such thing? No one!

So, Thanks Oleg and crew! You've done a fantastic job over the years. If I ever make it to Moscow, there is a bottle of Vodka with your name on it! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 100%


About the size of comunity. PF had really strong problems with pircay. A lot of it from decisions of not using copy protection AND not releasign game siultaneously all around. No one would wait until game arrived to be able to play online (that because FB servers just disapeared when PF launched). Many of those who made ilegal copies at that time never went buy it after that.


Living and learning. We should be thankfull for the support that EVRY GAME should have. More thankfull for having direct interation with game creators. But UBI should know that if they were able to make simultaneous releases around world of simple add ons, on small cost style (very simple packing only the CD etc...) We would gladly buy 2 add ons per year.

Skycat_2
02-16-2006, 11:02 AM
On one hand, we have 'free addons' like the 4.03m patch where 13 new flyables are added to the game -- this is as much or more than what many classic WWII-era flight sims featured when they were originally released:

- WWII Fighters = 7 flyables.
- CFS = 8 flyables.
- CFS-2 = 7 flyables.
- Fighter Squadron: SDOE = 10 flyables.
- European Air War = 20 flyables.

In most cases the developers of the above games moved on to other projects and so each of those releases was a terminus of sorts; however, modding/fan communities have evolved around each of the above titles to keep them alive and add more flyable planes, maps, etc. to their respective canon.

The IL-2/FB/PF series is unique in that independant modders cannot add new flyables and create new theaters without the approval and finalization of the developers. Without some new content to enliven it, a series becomes less interesting over time regardless of its overall quality. Also, new content/theaters help enfranchise additional players who otherwise would feel that a sim doesn't appeal to their interests. The Thunderbolts and Hurricanes included in FB, the Mustang and Japanese fighters added in a patch in 2003 and the new Italian fighters added to PF(m) only last week are easy examples of making the series appealing to a new demographic. Commercial expansions like AEP, Pacific Fighters and I'll assume Pe-2 in the future also keep the series going.

If Ubi Soft looks at the addon patches as basically 'giving away' expansion material that could be easily sold, then I suppose they are entitled to lament lost revenues and little appreciation. From the perspective of the community, however, the add-ons represent a primary avenue for customizing the series to build new theaters or add important flyables; without the actions of independant modelers the series might not be seen as 'our' sim. It wouldn't be a product that 'we' arrived at together, so to speak. Many or most of the new flyables were created by independant modelers who did so for the sole reward of seeing their work included in the sim. (If there is some form of financial compensation as well, I stand corrected).

So 'modding' keeps the series going even if the activity isn't traditional like what surrounds other sims. Maybe Oleg's method is better for the player. I understand Ubi Soft and 1C:MG's complaints that putting new flyables into the series drains away valuable time and resources that could be spent on making addons or new sims like BoB. Since BoB isn't ready for PrimeTime yet, Ubi/Oleg have to rely on FB/PF to keep 1C:MG's place in the flight sim market; the addon patches are an essential tool for maintaining community interest and good will.

I can see this issue from both sides. I think the time is quickly coming where 1C:MG will pull the plug on further supporting FB/PF to focus all energy on BoB or other projects. Perhaps in the BoB series there will be a clearer distinction between "free, user-made" content through patches and commercial expansions generated by 1C:MG.

RegRag1977
02-16-2006, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You can like my posts or not, i am just expressing my opinion, if you have your own...by all means, please share. Or at least point out the wrong and bads. Otherwise, your statement is too generic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just wanted to say that business perspective is not an excuse to do anything!

I disagree when you say "we" cannot judge them from a business perspective. What is that strange "we" : hope you're not talking for too much "normal" people around here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif. I disagree because i'm not in your "we": i use this forum in order discuss: not to recieve kind of communion but to communicate: there should not be so general "we" for we are all individuals... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

What i tried to underline is the fact that there is a huge gap between UBI business ideology, and Oleg Maddox kindness, passion, and generosity!(even if he's involved in business: there should be a medium way...)

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gifI will always hate businessmen like UBI, and i will always admire and be grateful to people like Mr Maddox! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I disagree when you say "it's the world"! No, there is still people like Oleg, trying to do his best, and not "only" for money.
But may be some people here are too involved with UBI enterprise to do critics about it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

PS: I'm not here because it's a UBI forum, but only because it's about Oleg IL2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif marvellous sim!

PPS: Sorry Ivan, maybe my english is not so good and that's why people cannot see what i mean! I hope you see that i have an opinion to share http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regards! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SweetMonkeyLuv
02-16-2006, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RegRag1977:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You can like my posts or not, i am just expressing my opinion, if you have your own...by all means, please share. Or at least point out the wrong and bads. Otherwise, your statement is too generic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just wanted to say that business perspective is not an excuse to do anything!

I disagree when you say "we" cannot judge them from a business perspective. What is that strange "we" : hope you're not talking for too much "normal" people around here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif. I disagree because i'm not in your "we": i use this forum in order discuss: not to recieve kind of communion but to communicate: there should not be so general "we" for we are all individuals... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

What i tried to underline is the fact that there is a huge gap between UBI business ideology, and Oleg Maddox kindness, passion, and generosity!(even if he's involved in business: there should be a medium way...)

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gifI will always hate businessmen like UBI, and i will always admire and be grateful to people like Mr Maddox! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I disagree when you say "it's the world"! No, there is still people like Oleg, trying to do his best, and not "only" for money.
But may be some people here are too involved with UBI enterprise to do critics about it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

PS: I'm not here because it's a UBI forum, but only because it's about Oleg IL2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif marvellous sim!

PPS: Sorry Ivan, maybe my english is not so good and that's why people cannot see what i mean! I hope you see that i have an opinion to share http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regards! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't seem to me that you're grasping the fact that WITHOUT the business savvy folks like Ubi, people like Oleg will never get their products to market, and people like you and me will never get the chance to purchase and use them.

No one spends the time and effort to develop a game like this to give it away for free. That's not because they are cold-hearted a-holes. Its because they have to feed their families.

crazyivan1970
02-16-2006, 11:38 AM
I am trying to understand what are you trying to say RegRag...

I dont think you see the bigger picture. UBI did not dump IL2 series, maybe there is a lack of attention visually, around these forums, but.... look around you... you have 8 forums dedicated to IL2 that are up and running, yes? You just received your free addon that went thru them and with their approval i would assume...yes? You will be getting 3 more addons later on...yes? Maybe they just dont get involved here because they dont need to? What is the bad part that they doing? I still dont get that one. They are still there for us, they didnt cut off oxigen. We alive, community alive, sim is still being developed and released. So tell me, what`s wrong? We need more attention? Like community manager posts? I am really puzzled.
Now, that i look at my original reply... i realize that i am wrong too... in all counts. There is nothing to complain about. Except maybe community that is mature enough most of the times to take care of itself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Maybe that`s the answer? The community? In the sense that we dont need the babysitter? Eh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On the top of all that...we have Oleg. Maybe not as often as we want he comes around...but when he has something to say, he always does, doesnt he? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Just saying....

AKA_Hitcher
02-16-2006, 11:40 AM
I love the free patches and add-ons, but I think that we pay for it by providing feedback. We are unpaid guinea pigs (beta testers), here to test and report bugs. And we have done a great service to 1C and UBI! We are the customer and we are always right! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

RegRag1977
02-16-2006, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
I am trying to understand what are you trying to say RegRag...

I dont think you see the bigger picture. UBI did not dump IL2 series, maybe there is a lack of attention visually, around these forums, but.... look around you... you have 8 forums dedicated to IL2 that are up and running, yes? You just received your free addon that went thru them and with their approval i would assume...yes? You will be getting 3 more addons later on...yes? Maybe they just dont get involved here because they dont need to? What is the bad part that they doing? I still dont get that one. They are still there for us, they didnt cut off oxigen. We alive, community alive, sim is still being developed and released. So tell me, what`s wrong? We need more attention? Like community manager posts? I am really puzzled.
Now, that i look at my original reply... i realize that i am wrong too... in all counts. There is nothing to complain about. Except maybe community that is mature enough most of the times to take care of itself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Maybe that`s the answer? The community? In the sense that we dont need the babysitter? Eh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On the top of all that...we have Oleg. Maybe not as often as we want he comes around...but when he has something to say, he always does, doesnt he? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Just saying.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, Ivan

You're right, apologizes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif, i had a bad day at work or something like that... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Reading your last post i realize you were wiser than i first thought!
No big problems since we have IL2 and Oleg! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I have to agree with that...

See i surrender http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

danjama
02-16-2006, 02:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gx-warspite:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gx-warspite:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I stopped reading PCG because of their views on this game and its community, their narrow minded a holes in that magazine, and i hope they go bust </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And that's the kind of attitude that has led to the demise of flight sims. Along with rivet counting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
how you work that out? dont dig me out ok thats my opinion, some of the**** i read in that magazine just made my blood boil, thats a fact, so whats ya problem? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
a. Your behavior proves their point.
b. Your sense of entitlement is disgusting. There isn't a company out there that's shown as much love to its community as 1C. Maybe Ubi wishes they made money off it, but you name me another publisher that's releasing flight sims. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, i have to ask, but where the heck have i said one negative word about 1C or Ubi? I bet right now all the money i have that you wont find one post in the entire Ubi forums from me being negative about 1C or Ubi, in fact i am very appreciative to them for everything. I dont know what your basing your point B on?!

I disagree with PCGamer, a magazine, i said nowt all about 1C, so please stop trying to paint a dirty picture of me

VMF-214_HaVoK
02-16-2006, 02:13 PM
How would UBI know anything about this community? And even more so how would they even begin to know how we feel. They dont even post here. Only UBI Razz and that is on rare occasions. He spent most of his time in the Raven Shield lobby. Heck UBI reps even post more in Lomac forums then they do here.

Now how big of percentage of people that downloaded the patch actually post here? A very very small percent. But yet UBI is able to determine what we appreciate. They have no clue.

When was the lasttime UBI updated the FB lobby? Fact is they dont support this sim one single bit. It is Oleg and team and them alone that give us the patches. And I know Oleg knows we as a whole appreciate him. UBI reps can...

knightflyte
02-16-2006, 03:20 PM
Aimail,

Do you have Volume, issue, and date of publication? Or an online link?

If possible I'd like to read the article and the context of the statement made by the UBI representative.

crazyivan1970
02-16-2006, 03:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
How would UBI know anything about this community? And even more so how would they even begin to know how we feel. They dont even post here. Only UBI Razz and that is on rare occasions. He spent most of his time in the Raven Shield lobby. Heck UBI reps even post more in Lomac forums then they do here.

Now how big of percentage of people that downloaded the patch actually post here? A very very small percent. But yet UBI is able to determine what we appreciate. They have no clue.

When was the lasttime UBI updated the FB lobby? Fact is they dont support this sim one single bit.
It is Oleg and team and them alone that give us the patches. And I know Oleg knows we as a whole appreciate him. UBI reps can... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disagreed on some counts. I am not an UBI employee, so i am not obligated to defend them... but just use common sense and re-read my post above. You cannot simplify things the way you do bud. Seriously read it and think about it.
.

Extreme_One
02-16-2006, 03:58 PM
I play (have played) several games published by several different companies.

I visit these forums and see anti-UBI whines.

I visit the Need For Speed forums or the BF2 forums and I see anti-EA whines.

I visit the Steam forums and see anti-VALVe whines.

and so on and so on....


* yawn*


The publishers are there to make money - the developers are there to get their product on the shelves and make some cash in the process.

None of those parties set out to disassociate themselves from their audience, no matter how small or 'insignificant'
The bottom line is always going to be about money.

Intentionally 'screwing' their audience would prove counter-productive in the quest for profit.

Be grateful that there are companies willing to take a risk by developing and publishing games/sims for niche markets instead of knocking out generic FPS clones.

There is no such thing as perfection!

Talk about nirvana but don't assualt those that provide the current next-best-thing.

just my 2 pence worth. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif