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Pirschjaeger
03-18-2007, 09:06 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but......

Brain grown from rat cells learns to fly jet
By Philip Sherwell in Washington
Last Updated: 12:15am GMT 06/12/2004



It sounds like the stuff of science fiction: a brain nurtured in a Petri dish learns to pilot a fighter plane as scientists develop a new breed of "living" computer. In ground-breaking experiments in a Florida laboratory, however, that is exactly what is happening.

The "brain", grown from 25,000 neural cells extracted from a single rat embryo, has been taught to fly an F-22 jet simulator by scientists at the University of Florida.


They hope that the remarkable research into neural computation will help them develop sophisticated hybrid computers, with a thinking biological component.

One target is to install living computers in unmanned aircraft so that they can be deployed on missions that are too dangerous for humans because of the risk of attack or hazardous terrain. They could also be used in remote bomb-clearance machines. Separately, it is hoped that the research will provide the basis for developing new drugs to treat brain diseases such as epilepsy, by investigating what happens when cells stop working together normally.

The brain-in-a-dish is the idea of Thomas DeMarse, a 37-year-old assistant professor of biomedical engineering at the University of Florida. His pioneering work has been praised as a significant insight into one of the universe's most complex devices - the brain - by leading American academics and scientific journals.

The 25,000 neurons were immersed in a specialised liquid suspension to keep them alive and then laid across a grid of 60 electrodes in a small glass dish, measuring only about an inch across.

Under the microscope they looked at first like thousands of grains of sand, but soon the cells begin to connect to form what scientists are calling a "live computation device" (in effect, a brain). The electrodes measure and stimulate neural activity in the network, allowing researchers to study how the brain processes, transforms and stores information.

In the most striking experiment, the brain was linked up to the jet simulator. Manipulated via the electrodes and a desktop computer, it was taught to control the flight path, even in mock hurricane-strength winds.

"When we first hooked them up, the plane 'crashed' all the time," said Dr DeMarse. "But over time, the neural network slowly adapts as the brain learns to control the pitch and roll of the aircraft. After a while, it produces a nice straight and level trajectory.

"The network receives the information about the aircraft's pitch and roll in the form of stimulation pulses and its responses change over time. We are its external teachers as it learns."

Previously, scientists have been able to monitor the activity of only a few neurons at a time, but Dr DeMarse and his colleagues can study in laboratory conditions how thousands of cells conduct calculations together. It is still a long way from a human brain, which contains about 10 billion neurons.

"The goal is to study how cortical networks perform their neural computations. In these experiments we are using living neurons to perform the computation required to fly an aircraft. The implications are extremely important," said Dr DeMarse.

The first result could be to enable scientists to build living elements into traditional computers, enabling more flexible and varied means of solving problems. Although computers today are extremely powerful, they still lack the flexibility in working things out that humans take for granted.

Computers, for example, find it difficult to spot the difference between items such as a table and a lamp if they are unfamiliar with them. More importantly, they will sometimes fail to recognise the same table if viewed from different angles, an ability possessed by the simplest animals.

"The algorythms that living computers use are also extremely fault-tolerant," said Dr DeMarse. "A few neurons die off every day in humans without any noticeable drop in performance, and yet if the same were to happen in a traditional silicon-based computer the results would be catastrophic."

These studies and the technologies use to investigate neural function are important for the understanding of neural computing but also for investigating when that computation goes awry.

"For example, with neural disorders such as epilepsy we can study how neural activity evolves from a normal to a diseased state," he said. "Understanding these processes is important not only for basic science, but can lead us down new avenues toward better medical treatments."

The work by Dr DeMarse and his team is attracting interest from scientists around the world. The US National Science Foundation has awarded them a $500,000 grant to produce a mathematical model of how the neurons compute, and the US National Institute of Health is funding research into epilepsy.

End

Imagine,....only 25,000 rat neurons to control a sim jet in adverse weather on a laptop. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Now that I think of it I've been suspicious that some of the flyers I've met online were pitri dishes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I think I know what happened to Raaaid; he accidentally diluted himself. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Pirschjaeger
03-18-2007, 09:06 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but......

Brain grown from rat cells learns to fly jet
By Philip Sherwell in Washington
Last Updated: 12:15am GMT 06/12/2004



It sounds like the stuff of science fiction: a brain nurtured in a Petri dish learns to pilot a fighter plane as scientists develop a new breed of "living" computer. In ground-breaking experiments in a Florida laboratory, however, that is exactly what is happening.

The "brain", grown from 25,000 neural cells extracted from a single rat embryo, has been taught to fly an F-22 jet simulator by scientists at the University of Florida.


They hope that the remarkable research into neural computation will help them develop sophisticated hybrid computers, with a thinking biological component.

One target is to install living computers in unmanned aircraft so that they can be deployed on missions that are too dangerous for humans because of the risk of attack or hazardous terrain. They could also be used in remote bomb-clearance machines. Separately, it is hoped that the research will provide the basis for developing new drugs to treat brain diseases such as epilepsy, by investigating what happens when cells stop working together normally.

The brain-in-a-dish is the idea of Thomas DeMarse, a 37-year-old assistant professor of biomedical engineering at the University of Florida. His pioneering work has been praised as a significant insight into one of the universe's most complex devices - the brain - by leading American academics and scientific journals.

The 25,000 neurons were immersed in a specialised liquid suspension to keep them alive and then laid across a grid of 60 electrodes in a small glass dish, measuring only about an inch across.

Under the microscope they looked at first like thousands of grains of sand, but soon the cells begin to connect to form what scientists are calling a "live computation device" (in effect, a brain). The electrodes measure and stimulate neural activity in the network, allowing researchers to study how the brain processes, transforms and stores information.

In the most striking experiment, the brain was linked up to the jet simulator. Manipulated via the electrodes and a desktop computer, it was taught to control the flight path, even in mock hurricane-strength winds.

"When we first hooked them up, the plane 'crashed' all the time," said Dr DeMarse. "But over time, the neural network slowly adapts as the brain learns to control the pitch and roll of the aircraft. After a while, it produces a nice straight and level trajectory.

"The network receives the information about the aircraft's pitch and roll in the form of stimulation pulses and its responses change over time. We are its external teachers as it learns."

Previously, scientists have been able to monitor the activity of only a few neurons at a time, but Dr DeMarse and his colleagues can study in laboratory conditions how thousands of cells conduct calculations together. It is still a long way from a human brain, which contains about 10 billion neurons.

"The goal is to study how cortical networks perform their neural computations. In these experiments we are using living neurons to perform the computation required to fly an aircraft. The implications are extremely important," said Dr DeMarse.

The first result could be to enable scientists to build living elements into traditional computers, enabling more flexible and varied means of solving problems. Although computers today are extremely powerful, they still lack the flexibility in working things out that humans take for granted.

Computers, for example, find it difficult to spot the difference between items such as a table and a lamp if they are unfamiliar with them. More importantly, they will sometimes fail to recognise the same table if viewed from different angles, an ability possessed by the simplest animals.

"The algorythms that living computers use are also extremely fault-tolerant," said Dr DeMarse. "A few neurons die off every day in humans without any noticeable drop in performance, and yet if the same were to happen in a traditional silicon-based computer the results would be catastrophic."

These studies and the technologies use to investigate neural function are important for the understanding of neural computing but also for investigating when that computation goes awry.

"For example, with neural disorders such as epilepsy we can study how neural activity evolves from a normal to a diseased state," he said. "Understanding these processes is important not only for basic science, but can lead us down new avenues toward better medical treatments."

The work by Dr DeMarse and his team is attracting interest from scientists around the world. The US National Science Foundation has awarded them a $500,000 grant to produce a mathematical model of how the neurons compute, and the US National Institute of Health is funding research into epilepsy.

End

Imagine,....only 25,000 rat neurons to control a sim jet in adverse weather on a laptop. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Now that I think of it I've been suspicious that some of the flyers I've met online were pitri dishes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I think I know what happened to Raaaid; he accidentally diluted himself. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

BillyTheKid_22
03-18-2007, 09:32 PM
Wow!! I did read it!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Pollack2006
03-18-2007, 09:43 PM
Bet you it can't open the canopy.

This is from 2004....any updates?

Pirschjaeger
03-18-2007, 09:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pollack2006:
Bet you it can't open the canopy.

This is from 2004....any updates? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bremspropellor IS the update. He's a collective of pitri dishes connected in a parallel circuit and he CAN open a canopy . http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

leitmotiv
03-18-2007, 10:18 PM
Oh My God---this is worse than the "Terminator Scenario." Brave New World, indeed. Be assured, science won't stop with rat brains.

BillyTheKid_22
03-18-2007, 10:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Oh My God---this is worse than the "Terminator Scenario." Brave New World, indeed. Be assured, science won't stop with rat brains. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://pimm.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/terminator-copy-2.jpg



http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

knightflyte
03-18-2007, 11:39 PM
Talk about the 'Rat Patrol.'

BillyTheKid_22
03-18-2007, 11:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knightflyte:
Talk about the 'Rat Patrol.' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Images/Briefings/Rat-patrol-01.jpg



http://aa.1asphost.com/CTVA/US/Military/RatPatrol.jpg



Rat Patrol!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

sukebeboy
03-19-2007, 12:14 AM
http://img.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/060724/105110__pinky_and_the_brain_l.jpg

Esel1964
03-19-2007, 12:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knightflyte:
Talk about the 'Rat Patrol.' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Images/Briefings/Rat-patrol-01.jpg



http://aa.1asphost.com/CTVA/US/Military/RatPatrol.jpg



Rat Patrol!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Billy,leave it up to you to make me say "H**l Yeah-Rat Patrol"!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

knightflyte
03-19-2007, 12:39 AM
Every Saturday afternoon as a kid of about 9, at 5pm I was watching Rat Patrol.

I wonder how it would hold up today. Would I laugh or just smile with fond memories?

LEXX_Luthor
03-19-2007, 12:51 AM
Yeah so what? Any rat brain can fly a sim. Can this New and Improved rat brain design a good mission? I am a poor pilot, a worse shot, but I am an Ace Mission Sculptor. When they hook this thing up to FMB, then I'll start to worry. :thumps: do'h http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Esel1964
03-19-2007, 12:59 AM
Knightflyte-
That's about the same age period(8-10 y.o.) I watched it.

I think my reaction today would be a combination of the two reactions you listed.
Part http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif,part http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif.

BillyTheKid_22
03-19-2007, 01:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Esel1964:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knightflyte:
Talk about the 'Rat Patrol.' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Images/Briefings/Rat-patrol-01.jpg



http://aa.1asphost.com/CTVA/US/Military/RatPatrol.jpg



Rat Patrol!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Billy,leave it up to you to make me say "H**l Yeah-Rat Patrol"!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://www.motodemons.com/images/HiJumpC.gif



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I am laugh laugh!!!! LoL!!!

M_Gunz
03-19-2007, 01:29 AM
So it can do a small amount of what the AI already does. How is it at landings? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
Let's not even talk about running a proper e-fight, right?

LOL! Teach it to post about how it should not have been shot down cause the plane it was 'in'
and then go into impossible moves by the other guy and what you have then?

Esel1964
03-19-2007, 01:38 AM
I've been eyeing this(it's far cheaper other places).

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7630254&s...duct&cp=1&id=1506660 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7630254&st=rat+patrol+dvd&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1506660)

Billy-the dirt bike shots are cool,but you remind me how much I miss riding my RM125 at Ft. Hood. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Nowadays,I'd need at least a KTM 400R/XC,just 'cause.

BillyTheKid_22
03-19-2007, 02:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Esel1964:
I've been eyeing this(it's far cheaper other places).

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7630254&s...duct&cp=1&id=1506660 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7630254&st=rat+patrol+dvd&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1506660)

Billy-the dirt bike shots are cool,but you remind me how much I miss riding my RM125 at Ft. Hood. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Nowadays,I'd need at least a KTM 400R/XC,just 'cause. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://www.elitektm.com/images/2007_models/SX/450SX2.jpg



KIM 450/SX2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif very nice!!



http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/database/aircraft/showimage.php?id=5544



Ft.Hood,Tx. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif &lt;S&gt;!!



http://img.timeinc.net/mx/content/images/dec03/121203screen08lg.jpg

jolly_magpie
03-19-2007, 02:35 AM
I must say it. Bikes are overmodelled.

Airmail109
03-19-2007, 02:51 AM
We're ****ed

Esel1964
03-19-2007, 02:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Esel1964:
I've been eyeing this(it's far cheaper other places).

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7630254&s...duct&cp=1&id=1506660 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7630254&st=rat+patrol+dvd&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1506660)

Billy-the dirt bike shots are cool,but you remind me how much I miss riding my RM125 at Ft. Hood. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Nowadays,I'd need at least a KTM 400R/XC,just 'cause. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

KIM 450/SX2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif very nice!!

Ft.Hood,Tx. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif &lt;S&gt;!!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool stuff Billie, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif.

ViktorViktor
03-19-2007, 04:37 AM
PJ, what is this thing you have with rats ? First we get pictures of kids munching on rats, now this.

I will stop playing IL2 if it means that one day I might be flying as wingman to a rat brain.

Lucius_Esox
03-19-2007, 06:51 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


I am not suprised???

Probably reduced myself to a similar IQ with "additives" playing IL2 at some time in the past..

Can make life (and this sim) more fun and exciting being extremely stupid.

I envy it.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Pirschjaeger
03-19-2007, 08:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ViktorViktor:
PJ, what is this thing you have with rats ? First we get pictures of kids munching on rats, now this.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmm, I hadn't noticed but now that you mention it I really love cheese,...........I think I'll ask my shrink. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Down with the Pied Piper!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif