PDA

View Full Version : Learning the game



BuzZz_WG
08-01-2004, 05:33 PM
How did you guys learn the game? I'm pretty decent in offline campaigns, but online I get my *** handed to me almost all the time.Obiously I'm doing something wrong, but I can't exactly say what. How did you guys learn? Tracks, books, just by playing?

BREAK! BREAK!
Nevermind...

BuzZz_WG
08-01-2004, 05:33 PM
How did you guys learn the game? I'm pretty decent in offline campaigns, but online I get my *** handed to me almost all the time.Obiously I'm doing something wrong, but I can't exactly say what. How did you guys learn? Tracks, books, just by playing?

BREAK! BREAK!
Nevermind...

ColoradoBBQ
08-01-2004, 05:41 PM
I've learned by reading informative threads here and going online and experiment with different tactics and planes.

http://ourworld.cs.com/Gebaupointy/Backup1.JPG

p1ngu666
08-01-2004, 05:56 PM
what he said.
if u want hop onto hyperlobby and see if im there, ill fly with ya
also 361st, 6bl, jg26 and redwulf guys will help u probably
and theres plenty of others, be sure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

steve_v
08-01-2004, 06:25 PM
http://www.il2flying.com/

Maple_Tiger
08-01-2004, 07:02 PM
Takes alot of practice.

You realy have to know wat plane your flying against and what advantages or disadvantages it has. This way you can use your planes advanatage against your opponent.

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

[This message was edited by Maple_Tiger on Mon August 02 2004 at 04:17 AM.]

x6BL_Brando
08-01-2004, 07:16 PM
As P1ngu said......you'll get a good welcome in HyperLobby, and there a lot of good coops around. You're welcome to jump in any 6BL coops you see http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

civildog
08-01-2004, 07:55 PM
Play, play, play. Bthroom brek...eat, play, play, play, sleep...play, play, play.....think about IL2 at work...breathe, eat, and drink IL2...play, play, play,....give up friends and all other hobbies....


...and you'll still get your rear end handed to you online. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v304/civildog/CivilDogsignatureMASTER2.jpg

58th AVG "WannaBees" ...We fly where the angels fear to tread!

A fast connect speed and the Internet means never having to say you're wrong.

While the lead is still flying there's always hope.

Dawg-of-death
08-01-2004, 10:18 PM
Keep flying.............See if you can keep um from catchin ya. LOL

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

Fehler
08-02-2004, 01:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CivilDog:
Play, play, play. Bthroom brek...eat, play, play, play, sleep...play, play, play.....think about IL2 at work...breathe, eat, and drink IL2...play, play, play,....give up friends and all other hobbies....


...and you'll still get your rear end handed to you online. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v304/civildog/CivilDogsignatureMASTER2.jpg

58th AVG "WannaBees" ...We fly where the angels fear to tread!

A fast connect speed and the Internet means never having to say you're wrong.

While the lead is still flying there's always hope.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFLMAO! You knoe you have a serious problem when you are judging energy states of other cars while you are driving... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Rab03
08-02-2004, 01:56 AM
AI in offline very often makes you adopt bad tactics. It's because, no matter how good, AI is still limited in many aspects.

When flying online, try not to fight the way you do offline-use all you know about your and enemy bird. Fly fast and high, don't engage in turn fights and use every advantage your bird has.

WTE_Ibis
08-02-2004, 03:17 AM
I get my wife to drive wingman on my way to work and check my six constantly.It's the boom and zoomers I fear. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Ibissix-schmile.JPG
http://premium.uploadit.org/Ibissix/MAKE-MY-DAY.jpg
Join us or oppose us, either way "MAKE MY DAY"

F19_Ob
08-02-2004, 04:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzZz_WG:
How did you guys learn the game? I'm pretty decent in offline campaigns, but online I get my *** handed to me almost all the time.Obiously I'm doing something wrong, but I can't exactly say what. How did you guys learn? Tracks, books, just by playing?

BREAK! BREAK!
Nevermind...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm one of the old guys. I just would like to point at a few things wich i belive will make your adaptation a bit faster.( see them as Suggestions)

Just flying online is good, but it goes smother if u know "what" to practise on, and "how" to practice that, and "why".
----------------------------------------------

I will number a few of the most important in order, to get u started.

1. Turning well in all speeds, especially in slow, close to stall speeds without flipping. Its extreemly important to turn well in a bad turning plane.

2. vertical maneuvers like climbs. practice to climb untill speed runs out, add flaps. and try pointing your nose down as fast as possible with the help of elevator and/ or rudder. Although speed is almost gone in a climb after an enemy u can still swing the nose with the rudder....I have surprized many opponents with better Energy advantage this way.

3. Gunnery skills= deflectionshooting, on 3'rd place?
Yes, U aim by controlling your aircraft.
Its a good idea to forget your online stats for a while and practise deflectionshooting online (you'll get killed a lot).

Offline use quickmissionbuilder.
Record tracks of your deflection practise so u can see if u improve.
At first I recommend a limited distance to fire at so u get confident in how much lead to pull, and this way it gets about the same amount every time. ( compare the enemy plane size with features in cockpit to get the sizereference)
The best thing is to practise deflection on all ranges up to even 500m, Why? This way u increase your shooting opportunities and keep the enemy on the defensive. many try to get close because the probability of hits is greater and less deflection is required. This tecnique "may" reduce your shooting opportunities by 50% or more and doesnt improve deflectionskill. also U will notice that skilled enemies will wait untill u are close before they start jinking and dissapear from your angles.


4. A good "look around" routine will save your day. Always Climb to atleast 2000m altitude close to your field. continue to climb on the way to battle ( about 3000-4000m is good).
Use gentle turns to look behind (saves energy).
For example: Look back+up to one side , do a gentle turn and when u have searched the upper rear sector, hold this view and roll to check rear below. the turning enables u to see so much that u often dont have to do the same in the other direction. U have now covered the whole rear sector. (saved me lot of times)



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "suggestions" above isnt detailed at all, but a good idea on what to start with.
Another good suggestion is to limit to one or a few planes in the beginning since switching between many will mess up your deflectionshooting "initially" and also because the handling of the different planes are not the same. Example: if u try to pull hard lead in a spit, like u would do in a 109 u will flip immediatly.

Deflectionknowledge on all ranges is most important for the cannonequipped planes, especially 109's with 30mm cannon.
---------------------------------------------

next in line to practise on is energy conservation and how to work with flaps in combat. Combat maneuvers and evasiontactics.

The above description is very limited and lots of details and examples are not included.
------------------------------------------------
Additional Note:
Remember that many online may have practised in their particular plane for several years and they know the game. So again, to begin its a good idea to limit yourself to one or a few planes......Personally I cant do that anymore because there are too many fun planes to fly.

it went kind of longish....but this is still only a fraction.

Good luck....remember to have fun too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Mon August 02 2004 at 04:53 AM.]

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Mon August 02 2004 at 05:08 AM.]

Mackane1
08-02-2004, 04:53 AM
You also have to remember...offline you're fighting with a team, albeit an AI team but tactics are used and you can get them to watch your six. Flying online alone can be quite frustrating. No real pilots ever went into combat alone. There are many good squadrons out there...check 'em out...find the one that's right for you.

Cheers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/MACKANE.jpg

Breeze147
08-02-2004, 06:40 AM
2 words - Situational Awareness

A little jingle:

Keep looking straight ahead

And you will very soon be dead

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

Yellonet
08-02-2004, 07:44 AM
Just keep looking all around, that really is the key.. and if you're not fighting you should be climbing.. It's good to have space below you in order to make evasive maneuvers or dive away. And if you have altitude you can always exchange some for speed in order to catch up to enemies...

Don't take my advice too seriously though.. I'm not that good a pilot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


- Yellonet

F19_Ob
08-02-2004, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellonet:
Just keep looking all around, that really is the key.. and if you're not fighting you should be climbing.. It's good to have space below you in order to make evasive maneuvers or dive away. And if you have altitude you can always exchange some for speed in order to catch up to enemies...

Don't take my advice too seriously though.. I'm not that good a pilot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


- Yellonet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The best short sugestion I've heard ,from "not that good a pilot". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ThanasisK
08-02-2004, 06:45 PM
Although I mostly suck here are some tips for you that helped me out.
1) Patience + Practice
2) Read some books on the subject of ww2 aviation. Did I mention patience?
3) Make tracks of your online missions and review them later (i.e. use "Guncam mode" (1/4 speed + no HUD at all to see about your aiming, padlock your enemy that got you etc etc). See old tracks again as you get better http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
4) Patience + Practice.
5) Try to play scripted DF/coops not just DFs. Being up there for kills is one thing, having a mission to complete and perform kills is another.
6) Dont be a lone wolf if you can help it.Even in WW/pure DF servers you can always find a wingman/leader. That helped me lots to develop SA skills and tactics. (OK im new to this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif )
7) Stick with one plane. While it is useful to have some experience with the planes out there to kill you, pick up a plane and learn it inside out.
8) *Purely personal opinion* Dont use any of the so called ueber fighters!. It's the pilot not the plane.

Macel
08-02-2004, 09:05 PM
There's one thing that I strongly disagree with on il2flying.com

It's the guide about turning. In it, he says that you should bank 45 degrees and NOT pull on the stick at all to get the fastest turn and not bleed energy. That's only half right. If you only bank 45 to do turns, you're going to get yourself killed, I dunno if it's the case in real flying, but in IL2 you better be pulling that stick back pretty far and flying with wings nearly vertical if you want to turn with anyone else. He was right about bleeding energy faster, so if you have a plane with bad energy management in turns, you might be better off thinking of a different strategy than turning.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2004, 09:22 PM
F_19's advice will get you killed.

#1 thing he mentions is "turning". Relying on the turn is the big mistake most make. That's for noobs.

You need to understand the concepts of energy and Situational Awareness before you get into any specific tactics or high-faluting maneuvers. After that, embrace the ethos of altitude. Then, you might be on your way to being an effective virtual pilot. Maybe.

May I recommend Robert Mouse Shaw's Fighter Combat Tactics and Maneuvering. Find it at amazon.com. It's a dry read, but the concepts, once absorbed will last you a lifetime.

Other stuff on my site:

Karaya Staffel Site (http://www.naysayers.com/9jg52/9jg52.html). See the Tactics section, especially if you're a 109 pilot.

Holycannoli
08-02-2004, 10:34 PM
But if you can't turn well when an enemy is on your six, how can you shake him? You can't just climb unless his a/c simply cannot compare in a climb? Mind you, I'm almost never a bf109 or fw190.

Just about all my online engagements are at low altitudes. Diving to get away is never an option. It's always climb, or turn. And if I try to stay at a high altitude, I inevitably have to dive to engage because everyone is down and stays down below.

So it's either turn or climb, usually both, and usually without success http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I do have my moments though when in slower, better turning planes like I-153's. But again, how do you shake an enemy on your six at a low altitude without relying a lot on turning?

El Turo
08-02-2004, 10:44 PM
Verily, from the Book of Noob, Chapter 1, verses 1-20, as written by the prophet Bmbm:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The Book of Noob

Chapter 1

Creation. The Dawn of Noob. First Flight. Tail Wheel. Torque. Stall. The first Hanger fly-through and the first Tree. Online. RTFM. In the Weeds. First Contact. Bandits. Turning. Burning. Trim. Rebirth. Despair. The Gods speak again. More Despair. Happily ever after.

1
In the Beginning there was Light in Texas, Pixel upon Pixel of Light, and then there were Aeroplanes. And when there were Aeroplanes there was great Joy upon the Earth and above the Earth, for then there were also Individuals of great Daring and Confidence to pilot them. They were known amongst themselves as Fighter Pukes, yet to the Appearance of Gods they were all Noobs. And it was good.

2
So beginneth the Story and so it be told for ever more. In the Beginning all were Noobs. And the Noobs beget a second Generation of Pilots, bearing the Family Name and in all respects similar to their Forefathers, and that too was good.

3
On the first Day of Installation the Fighter Pukes bang'd their Chests and strapp'd their Bodies into Machines of wondrous Matter, to immediately prove their Mettle. Yet despite Curses of increasing strength and foulness their Craft refused to leave the Earth, as if these winged Beasts of Destruction had a longing too strong for the sharp Embrace of solid Matter. Ground Loop upon Ground Loop was performed to the cries of "WTF!! What am I doing wrong! Why won't this Damned Plane fly??!?". Because they were Noobs, and Noobs knoweth not better.

4
From the Heaven boom'd forth a mighty Voice, scaring the Noobs half out of their Minds and impressing them forever with their lack of Knowledge in matters pertaining to flight. "Harken to ye Noobs! Thee shalt lock thine Tail Wheel afore attempting to leave thine surly Bonds". So did the Noobs lock their Tail Wheels, and it was immediately perceived as good. Yet the surly Bonds remain'd unbroken and there was a great gnashing of Teeth upon the Earth.

5
So did the Noob maltreat his Stead that Aircraft upon Aircraft were reduced to smoking Piles of twisted Aluminium until the Voice boom'd forth again, this time with badly concealed Mirth. "Thou shalt bear in Mind the awesome Power of thine Engine for it createth Torque of considerable strength sufficient to throw thee Cheek first unto the Ground. Harness this Power with judicious application of Rudder and counteract thine rolling tendency with opposite Aileron". Thus did the Noobs practice much until they could safely throw themselves into the Air several meters before encountering further Complications. For they were truly Noobs.

6
A greate kaboom was heard many a times as Noob after Noob slamm'd catastrophically into the unyielding Ground, hardly mask'd by shrieks of horror and consternation. So the Voice also boomed "Noob! Thou shalt not pull almightily on thine stick afore thine Airspeed is sufficient for Flight, or be punish'd swiftly by fearsome Stall to flutter harshly to the hard Matter. Fool! Stabilize thine Craft to comfortable Speed and then thee may Maneuvre". Thus He spake and the Noob obey'd until he was no more an earthbound Noob but a flying Noob.

7
On wings of horrific destruction recently tamed the Fighter Puke swung himself loftily into the Skye. "Yay! I'm UP! Now art I no longer a Noob! Look out! Here I come!" crooneth he and aim'd his nose through the nearest Hanger. Many a times distinctly dented and charr'd it was before the Noob rushed giddily through its wide yet narrow span, to embrace the omnipresent Destroyer, the Tree, in spectacular Explosion. And so Noob remain'd a Noob, to the great Entertainment of Gods and Spectators.

8
So came the wondrous Day - verily, the First Day, the Day of his real Birth - when Noob pressed the tantalizingly glowing Button that spelt "Play Online". Lo and behold! A land of plenty, where Fighter Pukes galore were already aloft and seeking each other's swift annihilation. Humbled by this presence of other, hysterically vocal, Noobs, Noob snuck out on a faraway Field called Cambrai or Bertrix to try his luck and his Guns. Up he went and all the Angels of the Sky hummed in unison. "W00t!" was his first utterance, and "WTF!" his second, as the evil Vulcher from Hell swept down and smote him in a vicious blow. "Haha!" croon'd he, "Noob! Check thine Six before takeoff or I shall smite thee another time!". Much distressed and lusting for Revenge did the Noob thus check his Six, and seeing nothing but a great big Seat took off again into the waiting Guns of Vulcher.

9
"This was not in the Manual I did not read", cried the Noob and loudly bemoaned his Fate many a times in succession until his Brethren from rear Airfields came to his succour and chase'd away the wily Vulcher.

10
The multilayered Sky now clear'd, the Noob didst fly away at the unholy altitude of several tens of meters, only barely avoiding to cut the Grass on a certain popular Hill, so resplendent in gaily colored pieces of various shattered Aircraft. "So this is what it's like to be a Fighter Puke" extolled the Noob, happily testing his Guns for all to see. On his next sortie he didst not test his Guns like so no more, and the sneaky Swooper didst in fact not see him so easily. "Now I am verily a Fighter Puke, I know when not to fire my Guns!" cried the Noob. "Nay" the Gods of the Sky and the High Domain retorted, "thou art nothing but a Weedklipper Noob". And there was much squinting and grimacing below.

11
Flying low over the eternally Green Pastures didst the Noob now spy a strange Roundel glowing ever brighter. "My God, what hast thou sent in my way? This Apparition is like nothing I have ever seen" he muttered, and emptied his Guns for King and Country in what perchance might be the right direction. Oh such marvellous Thunder, watch the pearly lines of sweet Tracer arcing toward the strange Shape yet falling curiously short. "WTF!!! Why doth he not fall down in fiery Flames such I didst not long ago??!?! Crud and nerf!!! These Guns are Ghey!!?! I'm a Fighter Puke and these Frikken Guns are no good!", yell'd he and pounded his Temple in consummate frustration. "Lordy No, thou art no Fighter Puke until thee knoweth thine Enemy from thine Friend" chuckled the Gods above and sped mightily away on their double-digit Mission.

12
Next upon his Trail of Misery came actual Contact form'd as zings and pings unto his Aircraft. "WTF!!?" he shouted yet again and threw his Crate into wild evasives. So pitiful were they seen from the other end of the Gun that all the Napkins in the World could not wipe away the Tears of Laughter of the opposing Pilot, though it didst bring our Noob a brief respite. "Where the Blue-blazoned Bondoogles didst he come from??!!?!" cried the Noob, "I was certain the Sky was clear, nothing couldst I see however much I looked!". "Whence did thee look?" ask'd his fellow Noobs, fully anticipating the reply: "Why, forward of course, how else would I know where to fly?". Rolling on the badly swept Floor and clutching their Stomachs in painful Laughter didst the Company of Noobs then declare "You Noob! Thou must look upon the entire Sky at all times, many a times in rapid succession, never slacking, never failing, or thee will be smote without Ceremony. Thee who thou doth not see thou cannot combat - thou lose Sight thou lose the Fight".

13
So when the foul Enemy come upon him a second time, the Noob pull'd mightily back upon his Stick and suffer'd another weird Experience - the World went black as Tar yet the throb of Engine was yet extant. "Yah! I am now a Fighter Puke for I knoweth how to evade mine Enemy!" shouted he. "Nay, yet art thee not a Fighter Puke, thou art nothing but a flaming Noob" came the swift reply from the lofty Highs, and verily, the dreaded Skulls grinn'd at our Noob again. "Thou art a Noob for thee knoweth not that your Maneuvre must be like flowing Water and Womens' Temper - hard to predict and ever shifting". Thus watch'd the Noob his blazing demise with mixed emotion, wowing some Day to fly like the Gods a-yonder.

14
In his next Engagement the Noob harkened the Words of Wisdom and cautiously handled his Aircraft. A trifle too cautiously perhaps, for it took the Enemy not long to seize such a gallant Offering. Desperate with Fear and Humiliation the Noob shouted for Advice, to be told to "Turn and Burn!". Of Burning he knew far too much already, yet precious little of the previous. Circle after circle doth he turn, the Enemy in hot Pursuit and snapping at his Heels. "Ye Gods!" he yell'd, "I am verily turning for King and Country, yet this evil Bastard will not yield! And doth I not fly the most turningest Plane of all already?!?!".

15
Thus spake the booming Voice. "Thou shalt always be trimmed so that even when climbing, diving or fighting thou canst releaseth thy Grip on the Stick without immediately departing from thine selected Attitude. Thee who never trims shalt be smote without effort by thine correctly trimmed Opponent and thee will shout "WTF!! No WAY! How did he do that??!?" a thousande times afore thee learneth the Secret of Trim".

16
In that moment was born the "T&B Noob". Lengthily, at least according to his Standards, and lustily did he henceforwarde cast himself with abandon into any old Furball, a Concept harkening back to ye olde Days when Naphtaline-drenched fighting Cats were tossed into a Ring, there to rip each other asunder, Fangs out and Hair afire. "I'm a Fighter Puke and I'm oh-kayee, thee are mine Enemy and thee smellee!" roareth the Noob, spraying and praying that his Shots would hit something other than thin Air and himself something other than the Ground. And it was good.

17
Yet something was amiss! Never did his Fire connect properly and never did he score anything other than Enemy Aircraft "damaged". He had yet to witness an Opponent break out in Fire under the Hail of his Guns. So mortified was he by this failure that he approacheth one of the lesser Gods, asking him for Advice. He had none to give, except "get closer, Noob". These Words echoed worthlessly in his Skull, for even though he pushed his Throttle Quadrant fully forward could the Noob never seem to get close enough to the elusive Enemy. "Oh vey! Woe is me! Mine aircraft is too slow, the Enemy too fast, my Guns so nerfed and pork'd, never will I be a Veteran or Demi-God! Woe is me! Where is the unsub Button?" he would lament in moments of utter Despair.

18
In this moment of utter Need and Dejection did the Gods Benovelence shine upon him, bathing him in the bright Light of Insight and burning away the Fog of Uncertainty. They said: "Noob! Thy must apply Lead Pursuit! With Pure Pursuit thee will never close with thine Enemy! Aim thine Aircraft in front of the elusive Enemy, towards the Place in the Sky whence he is travelling, not directly at him, and thee will gain Closure on him even when thy Aircraft is slower than his! Capisce?". The Noob pondered these truthful Words at great length with Mouth agape and his Hands describing various Trajectories, eventually coming to the Conclusion that the Gods verily spake with immense Authority. And from then on it was very good.

19
So did the Noob think of himself as a bona-fide Fighter Puke again, inasmuch he could now point his Crate anywhere in the Sky and find the golden Vector of pertinent Closure, though it did take many a painful visit by the dreaded Skulls and many a Negotiation of the General User Interface to become airborne again. He would scream "Whee-ha! Look out for the Fighter Puke and his awesome Lead Pursuit!", except when instead he produced a much-feared Over-shoot before the Muzzles of his Enemy. "Ha! Thou art not a Fighter Puke! Thou art but an Overshooting Noob without Class or Knowledge in the Dark Art of Lag Pursuit!" chuckled the Gods and again made strange motions with their upper Extremities for his Erudition.

20
With new-found Zeal and Energy did the Noob cast himself into yet more cataclysmic Furballs, there to apply various amounts of Lead, Lag and Pure Pursuit. Mightily did he sweat and toil, many were the Hours slaved away in constant Agony, many were the Tears of Exhaustion and Humiliation, until finally did the Penny drop. "Woweee... I must not always point my Gunsight on mine Enemy but can actually", he paused to gasp, "release a Fraction of Elevator pressure to glide beyond and over my Prey, then to slash in on him with a fantastic Lead solution! What ho!". So he lived happily ever after, and it was good to behold.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Macel
08-02-2004, 10:52 PM
Knowing your plane's weaknesses and strengths as compared to your opponent's helps a lot. Generally, trying to climb away from a close chase is suicidal, because as soon as you start the climb the opponent will have a short period of time where he'll be closing on you AND he'll have a somewhat easier shot, depending on the angle of your climb. This happens in any plane, even the BF109s and FW190s. No plane is able to gain enough speed on a climb to escape from a close chase immediately. Your best bet is to find a way to shake your opponent off your tail before attempting to climb. If there are clouds around, they can turn the tide of a battle. Use them. If you're low and slow, well... As I said, it depends on your plane, but its very hard for someone close on your tail to stay on it if you hit the combat or takeoff flaps, drop engine power to zero, and swerve back and forth repeatedly. Planes that have a good roll rate do this well. There are two down sides to this; Your opponent WILL get some shots off on you.. How good they are depends on how well you are swerving and how good the opponent's aim and low speed maneuvering is. The other down side is that you are now extremely low on energy, and need to gun the engine and raise flaps immediately after you shake him to get that energy back..hopefully before he gets on your tail again. As far as fighting on the deck goes... That's the only tactic I find that works with some decency if you don't have a wingman to help, and you're stuck in a plane that doesnt out-turn the other guy enough to break his chase. Keep in mind that just because you may have a better turning plane than the other guy, that if he gets on your tail, you'll be able to easily break his chase with a turn. It doesnt work that way, unless you're flying a bi-plane, spit, yak 3, la-7 or p-63 of course http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG14_Josf
08-02-2004, 11:15 PM
Here are some track files (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/tracks.htm)

The above link is a good source for other IL2 instructional material.

F19_Ob
08-03-2004, 01:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
F_19's advice will get you killed.

#1 thing he mentions is "turning". Relying on the turn is the big mistake most make. That's for noobs.

You need to understand the concepts of _energy_ and _Situational Awareness_ before you get into any specific tactics or high-faluting maneuvers. After that, embrace the ethos of altitude. Then, you might be on your way to being an effective virtual pilot. Maybe.

May I recommend Robert Mouse Shaw's _Fighter Combat Tactics and Maneuvering_. Find it at amazon.com. It's a dry read, but the concepts, once absorbed will last you a lifetime.

Other stuff on my site:

http://www.naysayers.com/9jg52/9jg52.html. See the Tactics section, especially if you're a 109 pilot.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guess this is why I get wasted all the time then? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif


No, seriously....... What I meant with learning to turn well , especially in bad turning planes, was that U are better off if u can control the plane of choice to the limit. ( Not to rely on turn only in combat). Just discussing turn loosely would cover several pages.....and I didnt describe any tactics really.

So being able to control your plane to the limit on all axes will improve shooting and evasion aswell. After this there is multiple tactics and tricks to learn. It takes very long time to learn everything. Cant take it in at once. Better to narrow it down in the beginning.

When I test a new plane I try to find the limits of hard maneuvering as soon as possible, with fighters aswell as bombers.



----------------------------------------------

Like U, I also recommend reading books. Preferably tactics and pilots descriptions from all sides as a lifetime hobby, and u really need a lifetime.

BTW...I was a 109 pilot from the beginning of il-2 , and wasn't too bad either.
just wanted to clarify http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Tue August 03 2004 at 01:54 AM.]

Doug_Thompson
08-03-2004, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by steve_v:
http://www.il2flying.com/


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the site you're looking for. It's less than a month old and it's already great. I've been looking for this kind of combination of expertise and plain English for years.

http://www.model-news.com/projekt/335col/baerlog.jpg
Proud Charter Member of the Do-Do Birds Luftwhiners Chorus

Doug_Thompson
08-03-2004, 03:29 PM
Re: Turning

How is somebody who doesn't have the skill to make a correct turn going to learn to do a well-executed high yo-yo, for instance?

You can sit in front of your monitor and practice solo flying for hours, I suppose, but people who want to do that should buy Microsoft Flight Simulator, not a combat sim.

I'm strongly of the opinion that you don't learn anything unless you're in danger of getting shot and have something to shoot at yourself. At least some turning skill will make you a more challenging target against the AI while you learn the real ropes.

Practicing combat manuevers needs an opposing aircraft. Unless your manuever puts you in a good firing position against your opponent, you don't know if you've done it right. Learning how to do that without knowing the basics -- including turning -- is an extremely frustrating experience.

Twisty turning is a mistake, but every newb does it and does it wrong. If you are going to turn, at least know how to do it right.

http://www.model-news.com/projekt/335col/baerlog.jpg
Proud Charter Member of the Do-Do Birds Luftwhiners Chorus

vonstillenacht
08-03-2004, 06:56 PM
well i've been playing since just before FB came out... and it has been a long road for me to get to a level of satisfaction during online dog fights..even then to be honest I can get vaped so quick I didn't know who it was or where it came from.


alot of tactics here...due contradict themselves...so it's easy to get lost init all.

For example the book states never slo wdown at low altitudes..now you can bet your bottom doller...you come screaming down at a foe beneath you and he will slow down considerably....i'm talking 200 maybe even 100 ft here...and when you zoom by quite often they will give a controlled yank up to squeeze a few shots at you...and you know quite a few have done sufficent enough damage to get their speed up and finnish what I started.

See if you have a mark on your six..and you max out the speed...you don't always know, or can't always judge what rate they are comming in at you...so for all you know going full throttle may only give them more time...to line up the shot...climb they get a great view of your engine or better shot of your wings...turn and the same with the engine again and even gives them more deflection chances.

So the best thing to do..is study as many tactics as you can find...then you can see someone else doing a trick you've studied and find a counter move. You'll probably find your best tactic is a muddle of a bit of this...a bit of that from all tactics on offer...even stalling becomes a practiced trick in flight...stall being a word most noobs fear.

Few little tib bits to consider are fairly obvious but over looked like never ever be going full pelt with no one around, why over heat the engine, so that when you need it, it's nackerd..go extra easy on BF engines btw real easy! So I don't even push my engine over 100 a few after take off get your speed up by a quick rev to 100 when speeds 400 just get lvl and throttle back to 70 80..if you're high enough and stable enough....your speed will grwo to near 500 anyway. Alot of deaths for the new beginner are the engine over heating leaving him easy pray.

Flaps....again easyily understood but easily over looked take off, then to raised quick as form take off...some never even take flaps back down untill landing...combat flaps can help turn and believe it or not help accuracy..stables the plane a bit more...bit if it's real war up there keep the speed ...line up shoot if you miss don't chase kill to far..far to many pilots have voice chat between friends these days...and even if not with that they can do a tactic called dragging. You will be thinking hes straight and level gowd it's christmas come early only to find you're level too and his mate is thinking just what you are right behind you. So be quick if you miss hard luck brake off get height and maybe dive down again for anotehr go... another thing to consider is...I bet everytime you go in for a shot you think must kill him straight off. Now try and think alittle further than that, like the tigers in the wilds... handicap your pray first perhaps leave him fly up away etc then come back when he's limping...he can't fly as good he may be panicked (he can't roll about looking behind himself for you as he may loose more speed doing that his eyes will be on speed and alt believe you me)...so get a few holes in him then brake...then come back around. Course kill steelers like vulchers look for smokers so you may have a few team mates suddenly come from no where but don't worry, chances are those maybe new players looking for easy points. Trick is damage him with light cannons..then when he's weak appraoch and use the big cannon in close few shots may be even one will cure his ills!.

take off...well get good speed 180 if under vulch attack...200 if not, and pull up..a crefull push down while getting speed can get your speed up quick but take care a little bunny hop up and your prop is kaput. get wheels in and when about 200/300 up flaps to raised and pitch up generiously when your above 300..but make sure speed is good. don't lvl untill at least 1500 then you have good bretahing room..be suprised how many online don't go above 800ft before they look for a fight.

Landing...well line yourself up, flaps down...speed just around 200 and turn off engine when you can see the beginning of rungway clearly...keep the nose down for speed then watch for your shadow (dont do night missions atall for a good while..won't ned a shadow after this to judge being lvl) and level so you touch down softly...now pull back a bit...when your plane doesnt lift anymor pull back firm and hit the brake lil by lil...bit longer each time...when you're really slowing brake alot and then turn yourself to the side abit so that after all your hard work someone taking off or crash landing doesnt smack into you. when you hit full stop don't sit back and relax hit reply soon as..the worst could still happen. See more points for getting the bird down you see, and of course if you limped home no points for you're attacker who left you for presumed dead!

There...that's me learnings after a few years.

Hope this helps.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2004, 07:17 PM
For Canolli,

If diving is never an option for you, well guess what? You just realized the benefit of altitude. The second biggest noob error is always flying in a beeline straight at the enemy at low altitude. You're just asking to become a decal on somebody's cockpit or rudder.

You gotta understand energy: what it is, how to get it, how to spend it, when to save it.

It's that simple. If you don't learn the concepts of Energy Management and Situational Awareness you'll always be in the victim class. Always.

I'm not saying it doesn't help to know some 'down and dirty' tricks to get out of a scrape: I just got out of a online DF where I did reverses on three guys in one sortie and killed all three. Two others augered in trying to stay with me (heh, and when I got home, I'd claim THEM too!)...I'm just saying you don't make your bread and butter on "hair on fire" dogfighting. You fly smart, take the kills that are easy as well as the ones that are hard.

Bull_dog_
08-03-2004, 07:28 PM
Check JG14Josf's advice...energy tactics are usually not the forte of new pilots trying to master gunnery and combat manuevering but you'll need it to get "good".

Understanding the energy game, maintaining a cool head and steady hand, along with situational awareness are key....only way i know how to do that is to fly alot, die alot and study my mistakes as well as the really good pilots out there.

If you're really interested...hook up with a squadron or some individual to shorten the learning curve.

My own personal experience showed me that I could dogfight, swirl and twirl but I was missing something because when I was alone, I often died. There were pilots who could climb away from me in the same aircraft I was flying! I knew I was missing something.

I started noticing that I was killing certain pilots over and over...not intentionally, but there was something about the way they flew that attracted me to them...like a predator to an animal that maybe wasn't as strong as another...odd, but there was something to it (don't be that person!)...then JG14Josf responded to a question I had when I was wondering how to take advantage of a plane's high speed turn ability...

Energy! Eureka! Flying has never been the same since. So many times, I know who will win the fight as we go into it depending on energy state and aircraft...and now I win lots of those contests and I used to not... a couple of days ago I nailed a Yak 3 in my Fw A-9 after a fairly long, drawn out energy battle. When I lose such a battle, it is usually that I misjudged the initial energy state of the aircraft or misidentified the aircraft.

so....
1) Learn the fundamentals of maneuvering and gunnery...I think you've done this

2) Pick a plane or two and learn them good...then jump in the plane of your most likely opponents and learn them better...the nice thing about Sims is I can fly them all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

3) Learn about energy and energy tactics and practice, practice, practice. I don't think you can truly milk all the energy tactics without a real good understanding of the relative differences in all the aircraft. By the way, the AI offline dudes don't energy fight well so you'll have to get a human opponent to practice on... find a buddy and set up a small server w/ 2 people and practice. I will do this if you pm me, but I don't proclaim to be an expert...only a student that practices a lot and will hurt a foe who makes a mistake. I have a good friend who is a real noob trying to learn online...I think he's flown 15 or 20 hours with me and he has 1 kill so far...it is hard! He doesn't like offline so he's learning the hard way.

4) A little time consuming, but do some speed, turn and climb tests in your and your enemy's aircraft....you'll find a P-38 J is faster than a 109G at sea level but slower than a Fw A-5...you can't out climb the 109, but you can outclimb the Fw...so fight accordingly....watch those 109's cause they can dance on their tails, but don't hesitate to engage a Fw in a turn fight...but don't scissors!

an example of course, but it took me a long time to learn that...the question is do you want to learn yourself, or have someone teach you?

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2004, 08:53 PM
By the way, I didn't mean to say that learning Energy and SA by themselves make you a 'sh*t-hot' pilot overnight.

It goes without saying that you have to fly a lot and die a lot just to get these concepts banged through your thick skull. I know every concept I now execute without thinking has 50 - 100 deaths suffered embarassingly, years ago, attached to it before I finally learned.

Two things about that:

1) That's why a decent flight sim is so involving, and has such a long life. It's so complex and multifaceted, and there is no string of cheat codes to enter to solve the puzzle. You actually can learn things, about history about the theory of air combat, about hardware, etc.

2) You develop a tremendous respect for the guys who were successful, but didn't get to use 500 lives to learn the lessons... or actually survived before the lesson was ever even put to paper. It's an odd feeling to read a WWII memoir, and see the mistakes even some of the very best guys made... knowing of course, that you have the benefit of hindsight, and computer technology, where all he had was a few hundred hours of training and a run at a towed sleeve.

Redwulf__1
08-06-2004, 11:58 AM
Thanks a lot p1ngu111

We preparing a campaign Redwulf for a day.... Maybe some of you like to know how effective a Focke can be......Meet us in a Practice, ask and you will get answers......