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Ruy Horta
10-30-2005, 09:40 AM
Since this forum caters to a varied crowd I thought I might find some answers here. Do any of you know some good books/references on US fighters in the 1930-ies?

Through my interest in camouflage I've been reading The Official Monogram US Army Air Service & Air Corps Aircraft Color Guide
Vol 1 1908-1941 and The Official Monogram US Navy & Marine Corps Aircraft Color Guide Vol 1 1911-1939 which triggered an interest in these earlier types like the Curtiss P-6, BFC, Boeing P-12, F4B and Grumman F3F.

Any good tips would be greatly appreciated.

==

Does anyone know if a complete record can be found of all the P-36 schemes that were tested at Selfridge Field in 1939?

==

It was disappointing to find that US Army Air Forces Aircraft Markings and Camouflage 1941-1947
The History of USAAF Aircraft Markings, Insignia, Camouflage and Colors did not contain the same amount of schemes as the previous work.

Author Robert Archer had his first book published by Monogram, but the second book by Schiffer. Apart from the lack of genuine paint chips, there were only few camouflage pattern diagrams included (and few really useful ones).

Does anyone know of an alternative book dealing with WW2 USAAF camouflage patterns?

==

Finally, does anyone know of a good reference on the Martin B-10/12? To date I have found very little material on this type and was at least hoping to find some detailed line drawings.

Ruy Horta
10-30-2005, 09:40 AM
Since this forum caters to a varied crowd I thought I might find some answers here. Do any of you know some good books/references on US fighters in the 1930-ies?

Through my interest in camouflage I've been reading The Official Monogram US Army Air Service & Air Corps Aircraft Color Guide
Vol 1 1908-1941 and The Official Monogram US Navy & Marine Corps Aircraft Color Guide Vol 1 1911-1939 which triggered an interest in these earlier types like the Curtiss P-6, BFC, Boeing P-12, F4B and Grumman F3F.

Any good tips would be greatly appreciated.

==

Does anyone know if a complete record can be found of all the P-36 schemes that were tested at Selfridge Field in 1939?

==

It was disappointing to find that US Army Air Forces Aircraft Markings and Camouflage 1941-1947
The History of USAAF Aircraft Markings, Insignia, Camouflage and Colors did not contain the same amount of schemes as the previous work.

Author Robert Archer had his first book published by Monogram, but the second book by Schiffer. Apart from the lack of genuine paint chips, there were only few camouflage pattern diagrams included (and few really useful ones).

Does anyone know of an alternative book dealing with WW2 USAAF camouflage patterns?

==

Finally, does anyone know of a good reference on the Martin B-10/12? To date I have found very little material on this type and was at least hoping to find some detailed line drawings.

CUJO_1970
10-30-2005, 09:53 AM
Although America's Hundred Thousand was a bit of a disappointment for me, it does have a pretty good section on US pre-war fighters.

Michael O'Leary's USAAF Fightres of World War Two has some interesting development stuff on Seversky/Republic, Bell, Curtiss etc.

Ruy Horta
10-30-2005, 11:00 AM
You are right about AHT, good section on pre-war US fighters.

Not familiar with the O'Leary title, thanks.

BTW. was surprised by the Consolidated P-30 / PB-2

vocatx
10-30-2005, 11:43 AM
Peter M. Bowers wrote two books on between the wars U.S. aircraft: Forgotten Fighters and Experimental Aircraft U.S. Navy 1918-1941 (Arco, ISBN 0-668-02404-6), and Forgotten Fighters and Experimental Aircraft U.S. Army 1918-1941 (Arco, ISBN 0-668-02403-8). These are both paperback. I bought them about thirty years ago, so I don't know if they are still in print. There are some very interesting aircraft in both of them.

Ruy Horta
10-30-2005, 12:10 PM
Appears to be exactly what I am looking for regarding these 20-ies and 30-ies fighter types.

Noted and tracking.

One question though, what the format? Mainly pictorial, or does it include more type specific data (performance, handling, history etc)?

Thank you,

horseback
10-30-2005, 07:05 PM
Squadron/Signal printed a series on USAAC/USAAF and USN/USMC Camoflage & Markings books by Dana Bell, with tons of color illustrations and B&W photos. Should still be available from Squadron.com at reasonable prices.

cheers

horseback

SkyChimp
10-31-2005, 06:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ruy Horta:
Since this forum caters to a varied crowd I thought I might find some answers here. Do any of you know some good books/references on US fighters in the 1930-ies?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try The American Fighter by Angelucci and Bowers. It's out of print and hard to find, but Aeroplanebooks.com has one copy left (it's in good shape, I've seen it).
http://aeroplanebooks.com/productcart/pc/advSearch_P.as...the+american+fighter (http://aeroplanebooks.com/productcart/pc/advSearch_P.asp?priceFrom=0&amp;priceUntil=999999999&amp;r esultCnt=10&amp;idCategory=0&amp;idSupplier=10&amp;keyword=the +american+fighter)
It was the definitive single reference book on US fighters prior to "America's Hundred Thousand" and still is on pre-WWII fighters (and in some ways on WWII fighters). Here is a sample page:
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/sample1.jpg
It covers all manufacturers from the 1910's to present time (well, at least to the late 1970's).

If you want information on specific manufacturers, their histories and products, try the Putnam Series reprinted by Naval Institute. Each book is anywhere from 400-500 pages. Each gives a complete history of the manufacturer, indepth details on the planes, and lists of serial numbers, etc. Most US and British manufucturers are represented. There are general titles alos like "US Military Aircraft: Since 1909" and "US Naval Aircraft: Since 1911."
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/sample2.jpg



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Does anyone know if a complete record can be found of all the P-36 schemes that were tested at Selfridge Field in 1939?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try The Curtiss Hawks. Again, out of print and hard to find, and it may cost $100 USD or more when you find it, but it should tell you everything you want to know about all the Curtiss Hawks.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Finally, does anyone know of a good reference on the Martin B-10/12? To date I have found very little material on this type and was at least hoping to find some detailed line drawings.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Putnam's "US Military Aircraft: Since 1909" has a line drawing of the B-10B, and photos of most variants, including the float equipped version. Not a whole lot of infomation (but some good stuff, ie performance, service dates, numbers, etc), but a few pages worth.

AFAIK, this book has not been reprinted by Naval Institute and and only ones to be found are originals. If you can't find one, Aeroplanebooks.com may keep and eye out for a copy for you. that's where I got mine.

Ruy Horta
10-31-2005, 11:48 AM
All good tips, managed to find copies of:

Forgotten Fighters 1 & 2, US$ 9,95 each
The American Fighter, US$ 15,-
The Curtiss Hawks, hardcover, US$ 33,50

Ex. shipping to the Netherlands though...so for laughs you can add almost 50%

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

But supposedly all in VG condition, so looking forward to reading them.

Hesitated a little on the Curtiss book, but since it was arguably the most important pre-war US fighter line, and since they were used by the dutch in the East Indies, it should be worth it.

Thanks to all who contributed.

Ruy Horta
11-25-2005, 11:54 AM
Forgotten Fighters 1&2 are nice booklets, filled with rare pre WW2 fighter types. It is a little lacking in details, but recommended if you like the subject.

The American Fighter and The Curtiss Hawks haven't arrived yet, so no comments.

BUT, although I should have thought of this much sooner, Squadron/Signal covers this area pretty well.

Got myself:

Aircraft Number 128, Curtiss Army Hawks in Action
Aircraft Number 156, Curtiss Navy Hawks in Action
Aircraft Number 141, Boeing P-12/F4B in Action
Aircraft Number 160, Grumman Biplane Fighters in Action
Aircraft Number 151, SBC Helldiver in Action

Christmas coming up, so I must think of others, but when the dust settles I'll probably look up Squadron/Signal Mini in Action on the P-26 and P-35 (if I can find them).

Does anyone have Paul Matt Scale Airplane Drawings Vol 1/2?

If so, could you please check if one of them contains the Fokker D.16 or D.17 and if possible send me a scan?

Kocur_
11-25-2005, 12:35 PM
A quick, but very limited in scale http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif solution could bethis one (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/pursuit.htm). Most probably everybody knows the site already and its far less than you know already http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

Ruy Horta
11-25-2005, 01:26 PM
This site is a good quick reference, and its free, so for people with the same interest it still is a great source of information!

Must have been a great sight to see a USN CV in the early thirties with a full complement of carrier based bi-planes in their colorful livery.

Ruy Horta
12-03-2005, 04:00 PM
The American Fighter, by Angelucci & Bowers.

Nice and concise history of American fighters, the numerous line drawings are not perfect but far better than expected from this type of general history.

The Curtiss Hawks, by Shamburger & Christy.

Slightly dated in approach, perhaps a little disappointing in terms of technical detail. But I think it is still an interesting and helpful purchase. My main gripe is its relative focus on P-40 ops. (approx half the book).

When I receive my copy of "United States Navy and Marine Corps Fighters 1918-1962", I'll be done for the time being.

Thanks for both tips!

BTW, got some very nice scans of the D.16/17 through the 1st Java, very friendly bunch of guys!

Wish there was a way to get these 1920-30 types in a combat sim!