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OldPepper
01-17-2005, 12:28 PM
The past few days I've been doing a number of P-40 vs Ki-43 sorties in QMB to somewhat reinact some Flying Tiger VAC scenarios.

From what I have read (which is not exhaustive) the 'Tigers most often faced Ki-27's and Ki-43s. I noticed Pacific Fighters doesn't have Ki-27's yet.

Does the Ki-27 come with a different serious number in this sim? I guess the "Val" would be pretty similar to the Ki-27 with fixed gear, etc., no?

Aside for appreciating the early BnZ tactics of Chennault and the 'Tigers in their P-40s I've found these missions to be pretty useful training myself in Energy fighting. (Although the AI wingmen almost always get burned TnB'ing the nimble Ki-43s...)

Could anyone contribute more info as to the planes the 'Tigers faced in those eaqrly days in China and if there was a specific difference flying the P-40 vs these various aricraft? Any other tips and links about flying the P-40 would also be appreciated.

Cheers! <S>

Atomic_Marten
01-17-2005, 01:28 PM
Ki27 should be introduced in the game in next patches. AFAIK, Ki27 is smaller and have open canopy when compared to Val.

P40? You should exploit that capable bird to maximum against these fighters. I'm no expert of P40, but for sure it can fight them on equal terms, even when faced with alt disadvantage.

P40 has strong(hp) engine (compared to oppo) good armament (excellent compared to oppo), fair turn abilities and overall it leaves impression of a good fighter plane.

E model has excellent firepower. I have cut Bf109s in two online (they have exploded after one good burst into engine area from above) with 6 12,7 MGs, and therefore it should be more than enough for Japanese fighters who are equipped with less armor and are overall 'lighter' fighters.

VW-IceFire
01-17-2005, 01:33 PM
This matchup between these planes and knowing how manuverable the P-40 actually was has successfully the poor reputation that the P-40 picked up. Early combat was poor because the pilots didn't know what to do when it came to fighting the more nimble planes.

As for adversaries, the Ki-27, Ki-43, and I think it was the Ki-21 (army bomber) that they faced the most of. I forget if they ever actually faced the A6M...I know some Zero's showed up in that theater but I think it was before the AVG showed up. That and they called every bloody Japanese plane they saw a "Zero". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Stiglr
01-17-2005, 01:37 PM
Well, a Ki-43 is at least very representative of foes for the AVG.

The Nate would outturn even a Ki-43, but would be a bit slower and have less engine power, I think. They both have fairly pathetic armament.

horseback
01-17-2005, 01:46 PM
The Japanese inventory is pretty limited in PF; Oleg and the boys have only just started on the Pacific/SEA/CBI Theater, so only the primary recognizable types are represented. We still lack flyable late model Oscars, Tojos, Kates, Jacks, Ki-100s or Georges, so the Nate is a little ways back in the potential flyables pipeline.

The Nate, or Ki-27 was the most maneuverable monoplane of the war, by most accounts, with an astounding rate of turn and climb. It was however, slow, fragile and lightly armed, with only two light machine guns firing through the prop. It was the primary Army fighter type available at the war's outset, and was seen in the Phillippines, Burma, and China before gradually giving way to the Ki-43 by about the end of 1942, although some isolated units still operated it into 1943. Because of its popularity with its pilots, the Nate could be found in most theaters throughout the war being used as a primary trainer or squadron hack.

Compared to the Japanese Army fighters that the 'Tigers' primarily faced, the P-40 had three major advantages: top speed, sturdiness, and firepower. Basically, this allowed the well flown P-40 to choose to engage or disengage in most circumstances. While quite nimble by European standards, it was not as quick to accellerate or climb, and its slow speed maneuverability was nowhere near the same level as the Nate or Oscar, so a turning fight was to be avoided unless your speed could be kept above 250 mph, where their controls heavied up and became less effective.

Basically, you got altitude, used your speed to run down your chosen target, and used your heavier firepower to shred him in one or two passes, and got the hell out of Dodge. Sticking around and getting slow with those guys would get you perforated with lots of small but potentially deadly holes.

cheers

horseback

Chuck_Older
01-17-2005, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldPepper:
The past few days I've been doing a number of P-40 vs Ki-43 sorties in QMB to somewhat reinact some Flying Tiger VAC scenarios.

From what I have read (which is not exhaustive) the 'Tigers most often faced Ki-27's and Ki-43s. I noticed Pacific Fighters doesn't have Ki-27's yet.

Does the Ki-27 come with a different serious number in this sim? I guess the "Val" would be pretty similar to the Ki-27 with fixed gear, etc., no?

Aside for appreciating the early BnZ tactics of Chennault and the 'Tigers in their P-40s I've found these missions to be pretty useful training myself in Energy fighting. (Although the AI wingmen almost always get burned TnB'ing the nimble Ki-43s...)

Could anyone contribute more info as to the planes the 'Tigers faced in those eaqrly days in China and if there was a specific difference flying the P-40 vs these various aricraft? Any other tips and links about flying the P-40 would also be appreciated.

Cheers! <S> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VAC? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif dunno about that, but here's a few things you might find interesting.

I'm currently working on a ~30 mission AVG campaign, Check the Mission Builders forum http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~edit: try these links:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=50910533&m=4181067652

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=50910533&m=2931077462

This also may be interesting:

http://forums.flyingtigersavg.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001150.html


I'm a member over at the AVG forums, that's a link to a question about this I posted

They are a very helpful bunch over there, but please, before anyone registers over there, consider that these guys are the 'real deal', folks, these guys really did it, they aren't game players and need to be shown respect that isn't often extended here. I don't use my "Chuck_Older" name over there, I use my real name, as I wish to show no cause for hard feelings over my use of a Tiger's name, because it would be disrespectful. These guys fought for a lot and sacrificed a lot , and other members/admins over there are friends and family of real AVG pilots. Just a friendly reminder that this isn't a link to a sim or game forum. Please show courtesy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Scarn3
01-17-2005, 01:49 PM
The KI-27 (Nate) was a closed canopy, fixed landing gear transition plane.

It was very manueverble and matched well against the I-15's and I-16's in the Nomohan incident.

The fighter only carried twin sync 7.7 mm guns.

IMHO it would out maneuver the P-40 hands down but would be significantly slower and have a hard time hurtning it due to its poor armarment.

LeadSpitter_
01-17-2005, 02:08 PM
We definatly need a ki-27, also i seen they are making the claude but says for ai only which is a huge shame being the model looks so excellent.

I wish they would lift the ridiculous NDA agreement terms they have currently so netwings.orgs modelers forum can pick up its pase. I very much miss the progress of start till finish shots posted by the modelers. The new NDA basically killed il2center and netwings modelers forums.

There is not really much to do in this sim make missions and skins only for most. Some devicelink programs and the modelers development shots were something many of us really enjoyed I dont get why ubi would take away the little things that make the game more interesting.

1. Missions being transfered and useable from cache like in sturmovik. "Takken away for piss poor cheese addon skins and missions packs"

2. No one has skin dls on makes it useless for online play. Even an option to enable aircraft skin, pilotskin, regiment, noseart. 4 files sending to 40+ people is why all server have skin dls off. It desperatly needs to be reworked for this game and not just for bob. Send skins when missions load up instead of very slow kbs during game which does not really affect gameplay much at all for fast machines but does for slow connection especially those who use 56k and isdn settings thinking its more stable.

3. The modeler development progress sites are basically dead forums with the same posts for many weeks.

The il2 forums have been very slow lately as well PF GD should be merged with fb/aep GD to make the forums more active and getting replies back quickly.

F4U_Flyer
01-17-2005, 07:42 PM
"The il2 forums have been very slow lately as well PF GD should be merged with fb/aep GD to make the forums more active and getting replies back quickly."

I agree even though i am more of a pacific guy and don't really care for that eastern front stuff i think the forums should be merged also.
This would join all the help and updates people come up with in one place. Besides pf is really just a patch for fb anyway! Thoughts??

pacettid
01-18-2005, 04:29 AM
Concur...bump.

OldPepper
01-18-2005, 08:03 AM
Thanks for the info and links, folks.

I am having quite a hard time with the p-40 vs the Ki-43. For kicks I took the P-40 vs the B-239 Brewster and got totally mauled!

Perhaps part of the issue is that the separation in altitude in the QMB is only 500m. I am able to line up for a shot and separate again, but after the second pass, those Ki-43s or Brewsters seem to get a lot faster! The P-40 has become quite a challenge for me. I feel much like a new recruit fresh out of basic! Well, I am a new recruit, more or less!

I wrote VAC thinking "Volunteer Air Corps." Thanks for the correction.

PBNA-Boosher
01-18-2005, 10:54 AM
The P-40 is an excellent plane against the Japanese army fighters. Aim for the engine, cockpit, and wing roots or the fuel tanks. .30 caliber guns light up the fuel tanks nicely, while .50 cals are great for shredding off parts of tails or wings.

Chuck_Older
01-20-2005, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldPepper:
Thanks for the info and links, folks.

I am having quite a hard time with the p-40 vs the Ki-43. For kicks I took the P-40 vs the B-239 Brewster and got totally mauled!

Perhaps part of the issue is that the separation in altitude in the QMB is only 500m. I am able to line up for a shot and separate again, but after the second pass, those Ki-43s or Brewsters seem to get a lot faster! The P-40 has become quite a challenge for me. I feel much like a new recruit fresh out of basic! Well, I am a new recruit, more or less!

I wrote VAC thinking "Volunteer Air Corps." Thanks for the correction. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif No problem

Against enemy AI, the Ki-43 can be a handful for the P40B/C- if you play his game. Don't. He'll always seem to have energy when you don't if you do.

You dive faster, and seem to accelerate faster in level flight

If he's behind you, run away! Gain seperation, this is a real tactic in real life.

get away and then turn back towrds him. Head-on, vs enemy AI if you must. Shoot at him, do whatever it takes to
1) hit him with your weapons
2) make him break

If you hit him, he could be hurt bad

If he breaks, you may be able to manuever with him for a bit, but if you keep that up you;ll lose

Instead gain altitude, do a short dive, and attack him again

It's surprising how much you can exploit your roll rate in the p-40 if you wingover. Your wingover can allow you to change direction as quickly as he can turn, below you

Aim for the wingroot, and you can set him on fire