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Lead-Brick
03-01-2007, 04:37 PM
I'm wondering if some veterans can help me here.

I'm having trouble landing a few aircraft, Me109's, FW190's and Mig3's in particular.

Funnily enought I have no trouble with P40's I16's Lag3's and others but I keep busting the landing gear off the ones above. Could someone let me know some landing speeds for the 3 worst offenders. I know that one of the problems with the Mig was it had a very high landing speed. With high landing speed aircraft should I be trying for a shallower decent angle?

Many thanks in advance

Kim

Lead-Brick
03-01-2007, 04:37 PM
I'm wondering if some veterans can help me here.

I'm having trouble landing a few aircraft, Me109's, FW190's and Mig3's in particular.

Funnily enought I have no trouble with P40's I16's Lag3's and others but I keep busting the landing gear off the ones above. Could someone let me know some landing speeds for the 3 worst offenders. I know that one of the problems with the Mig was it had a very high landing speed. With high landing speed aircraft should I be trying for a shallower decent angle?

Many thanks in advance

Kim

F0_Dark_P
03-01-2007, 05:12 PM
around 200kph is a good landing speed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chris0382
03-01-2007, 05:14 PM
Forget about landing at a strip. Just lower the flaps and gear and see what speed you can lower to before the plane starts to descend. Thats the speed you want. Practice on an open field.

StellarRat
03-01-2007, 05:23 PM
200 KPH is a good landing speed for most of the fighters. You can bring them in slower, but you are risking a crash (from stalling) if you have to manuever on final. I try to bring the plane in on final with full flaps and about 25% throttle. I cut the throttle when I cross the threshold. Once I touch down and roll for a couple seconds, I put the flaps up and pull the stick all the way back while applying the brakes gently.

Lead-Brick
03-01-2007, 05:29 PM
Thanks Guys

I'll give it a shot tonight. I've been trying for 160km/h (Works well for P40 etc) but I'm guessing at that speed my decent angle is too steep and I break the landing gear.

Cheers

tomtheyak
03-01-2007, 05:40 PM
Remember when you a/c is on the ground before takeoff to find a reference point that the horizon seems to intersect (on the spits I use a line about equivalent with the bottom gunsight mount). This will give you a far better chance to get in the right attitude for flaring and getting somewhere close to a three point touch down.

It maybe that you are coming in at too steep an angle, and not flaring enough.

If you can find pilots notes for the real a/c (difficult, I know but some are out there) and follow the procedures for setting up for landing from them, accurate altitudes airspeeds and throttle settings are often included and can help a lot!

ratchet1961
03-01-2007, 05:57 PM
I`ve been looking for a set of early Spitfire pilot notes for a while with no joy, any idea`s.

Regards Ratchet

Ernst_Rohr
03-01-2007, 06:19 PM
All of those birds need fairly high landing speeds, or your controls are going to mush on you and you will have some serious issues with stalling and/or slippage.

The Mig-3 in particular is notorious for nasty landing behavior and high speeds, made worse by the lousy forward visibility.

In the Mig, circle long around the airfield and let the turn bleed speed. Like Chris mentioned, let off on the throttle and look for your plane to sink gradually. Try to get your speed down around 200 to 220 on the approach, then back down the throttle and let the plane sink in gradually. Kick out the gear and let your speed bleed off and sink gradually, dont try and force it. Dont deploy the flaps past combat until your commited to the final approach or you will dump speed too quickly to prevent stalling.

The trick to the Mig is to try and keep the nose more or less level, and let the plane sink. The Mig accellerates quickly in a dive, so nose down approaches tend to speed you up quickly.

p-11.cAce
03-01-2007, 06:23 PM
My instructors drilled into me the importance of landing consistantly while earning my ppl and the same thing applies here. I follow this procedure for almost every single engine a/c in game:

1. fly at least a semi pattern - give yourself enough space to line up on the runway at something more than a suicidal dive and pray angle.
2. get your airspeed dropping - when it hits 300 start dropping flaps, prop pitch 100%, gear as you slow to 250.
3. maintain 210-240 as you make your final turns and try to pass through the "keyhole" at 250 meters 220 kph somwhere aroung 1/2 runway length from the end of the runway with flaps all the way out, gear down, and trimmed for 220kph or so.
4. use rudder and oposite aileron to "slip" off any excess speed and/or altitude as needed but otherwise keep you inputs small and smooth. Keep backing off the throttle and you should pass over the runway end at 10-20 meters and no less than 180 kph.
5. Throttle all the way back and s m o o t h l y bring the nose up so you just kiss down on the mains. Immediatly get your flaps up, gently apply brakes, and as you slow through 100 get your tail down and begin braking harder. If your tail starts to come up get off the brakes until it settles then reapply.

Practice in the qmb - when you can get the I-153 down consistently from the pit (without checking up with external views) landing anything else in the sim will be cake http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

FritzGryphon
03-01-2007, 06:26 PM
There are some different landing methods that are being described here.

One is to do a minimum distance 3-point (on all 3 wheels) landing. In this case you'd approach at around 160km/h, chop the throttle when you near the runway, pull back the stick to control your descent (flare), and touch down at about 130km/h.

The other is to do a fast landing, where you simply fly over the surface of the runway at a speed up to 200km/h, then gently lower yourself down until the front wheels touch. Then chop the throttle and slow down.

Personally, I found the fast landing method to be the easiest to learn initially. It takes much more distance to stop, but that's not a big deal with the long IL-2 runways.

Gradually I slowed down my landings until I learned how to flare properly without crashing. There is no specific way to do this, as it depends on the plane, your speed, descent angle, and a host of other things that you need to assess on the fly.

M2morris
03-01-2007, 09:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:

The other is to do a fast landing, where you simply fly over the surface of the runway at a speed up to 200km/h, then gently lower yourself down until the front wheels touch. Then chop the throttle and slow down.

Personally, I found the fast landing method to be the easiest to learn initially. It takes much more distance to stop, but that's not a big deal with the long IL-2 runways.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is how I land, I fly-it to the ground but as the wheels touch I give it some DOWN elevator and that sucks the plane to the ground and prevents bouncing. Man, I've been doing F4U carrier landings for so long that this 190 landing I just did here in this clip felt wierd as hell, but I touched down at about 180kph, no brakes until about at the end of the roll out.
http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/planegeek/?actio...urrent=FWlanding.flv (http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/planegeek/?action=view&current=FWlanding.flv)

K_Freddie
03-01-2007, 11:10 PM
On approach aim for a point 50-100m before the runway. As hit this point, level out and slowly reduce throttle, plus flaring until your wheels squeek. You should touchdown at about 10-15% throttle.

I've found this the best solution, between suddenly cutting throttle and hoping for a great flare, and beaming in like there's no tomorrow..
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

ratchet1961
03-02-2007, 05:59 AM
Thanks muchaclopiec, just ordrered the spitfire trilogy.
cheers Ratchet

DKoor
03-02-2007, 06:26 AM
Personally I don't like anything above 190kp/h. To much pain in the arse with brakes.
With 109 and some planes you can really drop speed before touchdown, let the aircraft "sink" down, you can get three point landing in many cases that way.

Monterey13
03-02-2007, 06:43 AM
Find out what your "dirty" stall speed is by flying with full flaps and gear down. Reduce throttle and nose up until you see the trails coming off of your wingtips. That is your stall speed.

You should enter the runway at about 1.5 times the dirty stall speed.

Fireball_
03-02-2007, 08:03 AM
You can also download the pilots manuals for some Spitfire versions free from here:

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Spitfire2_Manual.html

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Spitfire9_Manual.html

I don't know my Spitfire lineage, so I don't know if either of these are considered early Spitfires.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by muchaclopiec:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ratchet1961:
I`ve been looking for a set of early Spitfire pilot notes for a while with no joy, any idea`s.

Regards Ratchet </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Try www.crecy.co.uk (http://www.crecy.co.uk) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AVGWarhawk
03-02-2007, 08:23 AM
Just make the airfield, climb to about 1000 feet, hit the E key a few times. Sit back and float to the base. Go get another plane http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

J/K. I come in on a very shallow angle and 110mph for landing.

msalama
03-02-2007, 09:12 AM
I never chop the throttle before flaring, but gradually pull it to idle while raising the nose. Also, I've found out that when on finals I usually trim & adjust power so that I'm gliding in at an airspeed of 100KIAS or so. HTH http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

XyZspineZyX
03-02-2007, 01:45 PM
I recently did a bunch of testing for the aircraft that my squaddies and I fly the most. And dished this out:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m150/438cityofmontreal/stall.jpg

Its in french. Décrochage = Stall and Approche = Approach speed.

The testing was done with all aircraft at 50% fuel, gear down, flaps in landing configuration and all stalls were done at 500m ASL. My definition of a stall is when the aircraft drops a wing. So the stall speeds in the table are those at which the aircraft will drop a wing. The ** next to the Spits are there to indicate that for clipped wing versions you have to add 10-15km/h to both speeds.

The approach speeds were those that allowed me to have a smooth touch down on the end of the runway, and for the landings I did the standard military pattern.

The figures are those of the speed bar. Its not what the original thread starter wanted, but its a start and can be used as a comparison chart.

ratchet1961
03-02-2007, 09:13 PM
Cheers Fireball_
i had a copy of one of those a while back, and some how it went missing off my system and i could`nt remember where i had downloaded it from, regards Ratchet.

SithSpeeder
03-02-2007, 09:41 PM
Skunk--

Good stuff! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Need to put that somewhere special.

LeadBrick--

Here's some advice from real world pilots and it's gonna sound counter-intuitive but it's really not. Try it and it will make a believer out of you.

On approach, the throttle controls your descent rate. The elevator controls your speed. Straight from a book called Stick and Rudder, it really does work.
http://www.amazon.com/Stick-Rudder-Explanation-Art-Flying/dp/0070362408

There was a really good thread about this, but it appears to have gotten blown away in the forum hurricane of '06. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

* _54th_Speeder *

Viper2005_
03-02-2007, 10:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lead-Brick:
Could someone let me know some landing speeds for the 3 worst offenders. I know that one of the problems with the Mig was it had a very high landing speed. With high landing speed aircraft should I be trying for a shallower decent angle?

Many thanks in advance

Kim </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not about speed. It's all about energy.

Steep approaches are fine, but you need enough energy at the bottom to round out. Otherwise you'll lose your gear/aeroplane/life depending upon the severity of your problem.

If you make a shallower approach you can fly more slowly since you don't need to pull as many g to round out and therefore need less energy.

You don't have to be especially fast if you don't want to be. Personally I like to come in fast though since this gives me more options. If fuel is tight or my engine is suspect I'll take a steep approach, probably with the throttle closed, using a combination of flap and slideslip for energy management.

How fast you need to be for any given approach geometry depends upon your weight. Heavier aircraft make for faster approaches.

Wing damage also generally favours faster approaches.

For my money 3 point (or at least roughly 3 point) landings are the way to go. They're easy enough to achieve. You just level off at about 2-3 feet and keep the aeroplane flying until the aeroplane lands for you. The thing to watch for is that as you slow down you're going to run out of manoeuvre margin. As such you've got to be gentle. There are lots of analogies and similes used by instructors which cover this subject, but most are unprintable...

The advantage of this approach is that the landing run is much shorter, and the chances of nosing over are reduced.

For the 190A9, 260 km/h on the speedbar is a comfortable circuit speed. Approach speed is about 230, over the fence at perhaps 200 and she'll touch down nicely at about 160-180. YMMV, especially in WW view.

Stackhouse25th
03-02-2007, 11:27 PM
just reading some of your comments im completely disgusted with how many of you have no clue about the flight characteristics in this game. , landing speeds, how to land, and a whole host of other things.

slipBall
03-03-2007, 07:37 AM
You can read here about the 109 pilots and what they liked for landing speeds
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/

I like to reach runway at 155 or so

Snow_Wolf_
03-03-2007, 07:43 AM
A6M Zero I use about 80konts for carrier landing which is about 148km/hr

WWSensei
03-03-2007, 08:41 AM
Way back in the early days I started doing a series of training tracks for landings and takeoffs. After getting through about half of the aircraft I came to realize there isn't much variance in any of the aircraft in game, so I quit bothering.

-Nearly all the aircraft can be rotated cleanly from 130kph-150kph.

-190kph-210kph is a good landing speed for any of them.

-Keep your rate of descent lower than 5 meters per second and you won't smash the gear.

-if you keep the engine running at least 20% as you are touching down the few aircraft with pronounced engine torque won't exhibit a wing dip.

-visibility over the nose has more to do with how successful the landing is going to be because lack thereof might make you miss the above parameters.

This doesn't apply to carrier landings obviously, but if you use the numbers above you can takeoff and land safely in any aircraft in the game including bombers. I'm sure people will want to point out one aircraft or another than can takeoff or land slower or faster etc. Doesn't matter. In over 200 aircraft types I've tried the numbers above work every time.

Kettenhunde
03-03-2007, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Approach speed is about 230, over the fence at perhaps 200 and she'll touch down nicely at about 160-180. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That almost exactly matches the Flugzeug-Handbuch. Approach speed is 220kph and touchdown is 160kph.

All the best,

Crumpp