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josephs1959
04-02-2006, 03:38 PM
In Quick battles when I choose night fights the navigaton lights are on the Bombers (Lancasters). Only for the enemy Is there a way to have them off?

josephs1959
04-02-2006, 03:38 PM
In Quick battles when I choose night fights the navigaton lights are on the Bombers (Lancasters). Only for the enemy Is there a way to have them off?

DuxCorvan
04-03-2006, 01:13 AM
No. There's been a good portion of discussion about this.

BTW, Lancasters in FB? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

StG2_Schlachter
04-03-2006, 02:38 AM
Maybe he uses the Pe-8 as a substitude.

That's what i do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

josephs1959
04-03-2006, 09:28 AM
Actually I use B-24's with a british night skin I got at Flying Legends. I feel the Pe-2 is too well armed with those two 20mm cannons in the engine Nacelles. And from what I read from the lancasters were pretty fragile like the B-24.

WWMaxGunz
04-03-2006, 10:14 AM
Lanc's fragile?

I was given to understand years ago that they could take huge damage and still get home.

Viper2005_
04-03-2006, 12:47 PM
Depends what you mean by fragile...

I seem to remember that statistically most of the RAF's heavy bombers were significantly overstrong. Making aeroplanes weaker makes them lighter, so they cruise higher and faster, or have a longer range.

As such, for a design mission you can carry out a trade study between casualties due to enemy action and casualties due to structural failure.

In the trivial case you might expect the minimum casualty rate to be reached when there's a 50-50 split between casualties caused by enemy action and those caused by in-flight structural failure.

However, it was considered that casualties due to structural failure were more damaging to morale than casualties inflicted by the enemy, and so most combat aeroplanes (on both sides) were somewhat overstrong, and in the case of bombers, excessively armed to boot; shooting back makes the crew feel better, but the weight and drag of the guns (and gunners!) tends to be somewhat counter-productive in practice.

In this context it is interesting to note that the Mosquito failed its limit loading tests at less than 150% design limit load, and had to be strengthened before it could enter service. It also lacked defensive armament.

As a result it could carry about the same load as a B-17 to Berlin, with a very low hull loss rate (which was cheaper than the B-17 anyway - only 2 engines for a start!), fewer crew (thus fewer casualties per hull loss). If push came to shove, it could actually manage two ops to "The Big City" in one night.

Viewed in this context, the considerable excess strength demonstrated by the B-17 wasn't as valuable as some would make out.

The Lancaster could take a reasonable amount of battle damage and make it home. Its performance (especially with regard to load carrying capacity) was somewhat superior to that of the B-17.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

ElAurens
04-03-2006, 01:55 PM
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going.

Chuck_Older
04-04-2006, 08:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by josephs1959:
In Quick battles when I choose night fights the navigaton lights are on the Bombers (Lancasters). Only for the enemy Is there a way to have them off? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Many people still don't realise that exhaust flare at night from these aircraft is very visible and was only partly obscured by special flare damping equipment by war's end

Simply put, the planes in this sim are invisible at night with the nav lights off, and this is patently wrong.

The Ai will display it's nav lights until attacked in 4.04. When attacked, they shut them off. After a breif time of not coming under attack, they come back on

This is a crummy compromise but it's the only one we have

DuxCorvan
04-04-2006, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it's not Airbus, I'll take the bus. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

A.K.Davis
04-04-2006, 09:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by josephs1959:
In Quick battles when I choose night fights the navigaton lights are on the Bombers (Lancasters). Only for the enemy Is there a way to have them off? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a crummy compromise but it's the only one we have </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BS. We have and have always had icons. They are immensely customizable, and best of all, entirely in the user's hands.

We will never have realistic nighttime air-to-air combat in Il-2. We could have realistic nighttime air-to-ground missions, but some small group managed to hijack an aspect of the sim for their own narrow purposes.

Chuck_Older
04-04-2006, 12:22 PM
BS?

What's wrong, AK, did the cat pee in your Cheerios this morning?

What exactly is so BS about my post?

A.K.Davis
04-04-2006, 01:28 PM
Yeah, I think the cat did piss in me cheerios this morning. Sorry.

Anyways, the statement that the navigation lights bug/feature is actually the only possible compromise to allow for night air-to-air is pretty silly. The use and customization of icons is perfectly acceptable for these purposes, is more graceful and arguably no less realistic. Furthermore, icons are left to player choice and changes can be made to support particular missions (so that players who enjoy nighttime air-to-ground don't have their immersion compromised by the demands of players who want to impose bugs on all to facilitate nighttime air-to-air in a sim totally unsuitable for it).

And even if I were argueing from the air-to-air viewpoint, I'd point out how this "feature" does nothing for online flying.

Nimits
04-04-2006, 05:55 PM
You can't do realistic night fighter air-air combat in the sim due to lack of radar; night fighters were always under radar control till intercept, and by 1943 night fighter generally had their own onboard radar.