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VW-IceFire
07-01-2006, 08:53 AM
I guess its hard to say right now what we'll be getting but with the 1946 addon coming I'm doing a little research on the Ta-152C. The Focke Wulf history is an interesting one to study and just as interesting and convoluted as the Spitfires.

So I'm curious as to what armament possibilities we'd be seeing with the Ta-152C. Would there be a MK108 hub cannon? A MK103? MG151/20 a group of two or four? What about ground attack options? I'm just thinking that in a server scenario you'd see the prop fighters become ground attack aircraft while the jets would largely be the primary fighters. Ta-152C would be fast but not jet fast so you'd probably want to operate as a fighter-bomber was the bombrack part of the Ta-152C's options before the war ended?

VW-IceFire
07-01-2006, 08:53 AM
I guess its hard to say right now what we'll be getting but with the 1946 addon coming I'm doing a little research on the Ta-152C. The Focke Wulf history is an interesting one to study and just as interesting and convoluted as the Spitfires.

So I'm curious as to what armament possibilities we'd be seeing with the Ta-152C. Would there be a MK108 hub cannon? A MK103? MG151/20 a group of two or four? What about ground attack options? I'm just thinking that in a server scenario you'd see the prop fighters become ground attack aircraft while the jets would largely be the primary fighters. Ta-152C would be fast but not jet fast so you'd probably want to operate as a fighter-bomber was the bombrack part of the Ta-152C's options before the war ended?

JG53Frankyboy
07-01-2006, 09:24 AM
you want planed armament versions ?
here we go:

1 MK108 hub canon, 2 MG151/20 above the engine, 2 MG151/20 in the wingroots , example is C-1

1 MK103(most propably MK103M) hub canon, 2 MG151/15 above the engine, 2 MG151/20 in the wingroots, example is C-3

1 MK103(most propably MK103M) hub canon, 2 MG151/20 above the engine, 2 MG151/20 in the wingroots, example is C-7

1 MG151/20 hub canon, 2 MG151/20 above the engine, 2 MG151/20 in the wingroots, example is C-5

the outer wings were not planed to be armed, with weapons there (MK!08 or MG151/20) it was a Ta152A/B

all were able to carry bombs below the fueselage, ETC 503.

funny is the C-1/R14 :
2 MG151/20 in the wingroots, one Torpedo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

but please keep in mind that the Fw190D-9 in game has no ETC , and this plane was at least used from one GroundAssault (Schlachtgruppe)unit in the groundattack role !

badatflyski
07-01-2006, 09:57 AM
just a tought: wasn't the Ta152 initaly build as high altitude fighter/interceptor?
it would be better if oleg could put an ETC under the D9 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif that would be a fast JABO! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

JG53Frankyboy
07-01-2006, 10:00 AM
the special high alt version is the Ta152H .

the C is for "normal" alts.

JG52Karaya-X
07-01-2006, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by badatflyski:
just a tought: wasn't the Ta152 initaly build as high altitude fighter/interceptor?
it would be better if oleg could put an ETC under the D9 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif that would be a fast JABO! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The high-altitude version is the -H which we already have. The C was foremost a heavy fighter / escort fighter (although in '44/'45 there wasn't much left to escort http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif)

VW-IceFire
07-01-2006, 10:01 AM
Thanks Frankybok. I didn't realize there was such a huge variety.

I'm secretly hoping that the Ta-152C will be a good fast jabo...I realize the D-9 should have it and doesn't but that doesn't mean the Ta-152C which is new to the game won't take it into account.

No rack for fighter ops...rack for bombing. I'm just thinking about the prop/jet mix and I see it as being an excellent fast jabo in that sort of scenario.

badatflyski
07-01-2006, 10:07 AM
for bombing, we'll get the AR234, even more faster! we could simulate the attack on the Namur Bridge in belgium...we'll see if like in reality, none of the allied fighters present there that day will not be able to catch the arado's. It's like the most memorable of the few combat mission the ar234 have done.

Anyway, a Ta152 with ETC will please me also a lot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
07-01-2006, 01:12 PM
there tends tobe a big dropoff in max speed with bombs ingame
2-3x as much as in real life http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

do335 is *really* good jabo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
07-01-2006, 05:44 PM
How does a theoretical Ta-152C compare to the Ar-234 for speed? I know the Ar-234 isn't as fast as the Me-262...so its probably in the high end prop range but I have no idea...

p1ngu666
07-01-2006, 06:36 PM
i think the blitz, do335, me262 would easily outclass it as a jabo..

leitmotiv
07-01-2006, 11:48 PM
Shockwave has a Ta 152C for FS2004---it is hotter than hot. It and RealAir's Spit XIV are my favorite final pistons. Looking forward to using Oleg's shooting version of the Ta. Allies really should have been given a Spit XIV, Meteor, Vampire, P-47M, and P-51H in compensation. Germans are going to be going to town with their gear! Allies: use YP-80s!

VW-IceFire
07-03-2006, 02:23 PM
Ok...where'd that nice picture of the Ta-152C with torpedo go?

VW-IceFire
07-04-2006, 03:23 PM
Bump!

Did I dream that picture up? I can't find it anymore...and the forums ate it.

Xiolablu3
07-04-2006, 03:59 PM
Interesting stuff, I thought that ALL TA152's were built for hi alt work, hence the long wings?

How many examples of each mark were produced please? Does anyone know?

Viikate_
07-04-2006, 04:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Did I dream that picture up? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes you did. There never was any picture of Ta-152C with torpedo. Move along, nothing to see here...



http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/~viikate/Ta-152C.jpg (http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/%7Eviikate/Ta-152C.jpg)

JG53Frankyboy
07-04-2006, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Interesting stuff, I thought that ALL TA152's were built for hi alt work, hence the long wings?

How many examples of each mark were produced please? Does anyone know? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats very difficult to say in the end days of the 3.Reich.

the most produced were the Ta152H , and only that realy saw combat AFAIK , around 40 .

all the rest, B/C/E , well, around 20 perhaps - most , if not all, as testplanes.

only the H had a wingspan of 14,44m , the others had 11m.
the 190D9 had 10,5m wingspan.

JSG72
07-04-2006, 05:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Interesting stuff, I thought that ALL TA152's were built for hi alt work, hence the long wings?

How many examples of each mark were produced please? Does anyone know? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

TA152 H-0 Pre production and H-1 production were the High altitude fighters with long chord wings
The planned but not built AFAIK. 152E was a long chord Photo Recce version with rounded wingtips
The Ta 152C was a proposed General fighter. And could be utalised in various roles.
The FW190 D versions were produced as Stopgaps until the introduction of the TA152C.This never materialised in Production form, before Wars end.
Think Around 70 H-O and H-1s were produced and seeing service with Stab and 111/JG301?. With only Prototypes of the C being built. Perhaps being flown and engaged in actions. But not assigned to a Unit

I have Quite a few books on the subject

IL2-chuter
07-04-2006, 05:15 PM
JSG72 - correct info if you swap long span for long chord (chord being longitudinal). I know that's what meant . . .
One best guess is 67 152s of all types were built. I don't know if JG301 ever had more than 26 Hs at any one time. Two C-1s were listed on strength for JG301 (Welzow) on April 30, no known combat.


The Torpedo carrying Ta was deemed to be impractical early in concept due to the anticipated gross weight exceeding the capability of the landing gear.

The Ta152B (cancelled then reinstated) was the ground attack version of the 152. My impression of the C model (my interpretation of the data) was that it was basically a bomber destroyer that could outrun the escorts . . . it certainly wasn't going to turn well.

Seeing as there isn't any initial roll rate modeling in the game (all planes jump straight to sustained rate) and the aft cg and directional problems (yaw problems were made considerably worse by opening the cowl flaps) of the H (these same problems afflicted the C) aren't in the game (no doubt game engine limitations) the C might just be kickass . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif (note: these issues were much less pronounced as weight dropped off)

VW-IceFire
07-04-2006, 05:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viikate_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Did I dream that picture up? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes you did. There never was any picture of Ta-152C with torpedo. Move along, nothing to see here...



http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/~viikate/Ta-152C.jpg (http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/%7Eviikate/Ta-152C.jpg) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
07-04-2006, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IL2-chuter:
The Torpedo carrying Ta was deemed to be impractical early in concept due to the anticipated gross weight exceeding the capability of the landing gear.

The Ta152B (cancelled then reinstated) was the ground attack version of the 152. My impression of the C model (my interpretation of the data) was that it was basically a bomber destroyer that could outrun the escorts . . . it certainly wasn't going to turn well.

Seeing as there isn't any initial roll rate modeling in the game (all planes jump straight to sustained rate) and the aft cg and directional problems (yaw problems were made considerably worse by opening the cowl flaps) of the H (these same problems afflicted the C) aren't in the game (no doubt game engine limitations) the C might just be kickass . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We didn't used to have initial roll...however I feel that we do now in the post 4.01 flight model.

What I've read in the last few days seems to indicate that initial turn rate with the Ta-152C was good enough to be very close to the Dora. The extra weight being slightly compensated by the slightly longer wings. But I imagine you're right...a bomber destroyer as the primary.

Seems like a fun plane to try in a hypothetical situation. I look forward to it!

IL2-chuter
07-04-2006, 05:48 PM
Try any multi-engined plane and throw it into a roll, almost instant max roll rate. Try the roll in the 190A-4 with and without the outboard guns. The sustained rate should be the same and the initial should be slower for the gun equipped.

Experimentation is good http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif and I look forward to ALL aircraft (woohoo).

VW-IceFire
07-04-2006, 06:37 PM
I don't know...it takes a bit to get a P-38 to roll full one way or the other. Going back and forth is hard...

Maybe its just a very light thing and it should be more definitive. Could be very true.