PDA

View Full Version : Great job on the ballistics!!!!



Choctaw111
12-22-2005, 07:17 PM
Except for bullet deflections and ricochets the ballistics is great. There is so much that I have wanted to post for a while and just never got around to it. For those of you that like to experiment with Il2, or any game for that matter, I like to look for the attention to detail in the little things. What I had noticed a while back and am just getting around to praising Oleg for is his attention to the drag coefficient of the bullets. When you fire a bullet it immediately starts to slow down. This is modeled in this sim. You can tell this by firing a bunch of bullets and watching them from the side external view from far away. You can see that when the bullets are fired the stream of tracers start getting closer together which is caused by the bullets slowing down from wind resistance. To go even further not all bullets have the same drag coefficient so if you happen to have an AC with two different types of guns you can see this for yourself. In one case (I used the Bf109E series) you can see that the MGFF cannons have a slower velocity than the 7.92mm machine guns as in real life), BUT, because the 7.92mm bullets are lighter and have a different drag coefficient the slower MGFF rounds will catch back up to them since the smaller rounds will slow down more quickly than the larger cannon rounds. I have been amazed by Oleg's attention to detail in this matter and just wanted to praise him for it. THANK YOU OLEG FOR ANOTHER FINE ASPECT OF THIS SIM!!!!!!! Try out these tests for yourself. It is very interesting to watch the tracers travel at different speeds and slow down as they travel down range.

Choctaw111
12-22-2005, 07:17 PM
Except for bullet deflections and ricochets the ballistics is great. There is so much that I have wanted to post for a while and just never got around to it. For those of you that like to experiment with Il2, or any game for that matter, I like to look for the attention to detail in the little things. What I had noticed a while back and am just getting around to praising Oleg for is his attention to the drag coefficient of the bullets. When you fire a bullet it immediately starts to slow down. This is modeled in this sim. You can tell this by firing a bunch of bullets and watching them from the side external view from far away. You can see that when the bullets are fired the stream of tracers start getting closer together which is caused by the bullets slowing down from wind resistance. To go even further not all bullets have the same drag coefficient so if you happen to have an AC with two different types of guns you can see this for yourself. In one case (I used the Bf109E series) you can see that the MGFF cannons have a slower velocity than the 7.92mm machine guns as in real life), BUT, because the 7.92mm bullets are lighter and have a different drag coefficient the slower MGFF rounds will catch back up to them since the smaller rounds will slow down more quickly than the larger cannon rounds. I have been amazed by Oleg's attention to detail in this matter and just wanted to praise him for it. THANK YOU OLEG FOR ANOTHER FINE ASPECT OF THIS SIM!!!!!!! Try out these tests for yourself. It is very interesting to watch the tracers travel at different speeds and slow down as they travel down range.

LEXX_Luthor
12-22-2005, 07:38 PM
It is beautiful to watch the trajectories, especially the green Russian tracers at high altitude in the deep blue (a bit too deep colour I suggest though).

Choc, do the AI planes bullets work like this too, of just player bullets? Just throwing it out. A super massive furball starts to crunch the framerate, and its CPU and not grafix card as can be proven by increasing the time speed which slows framerate -- bullets having to be calculated in less time until the CPU explodes hehe.

Choctaw111
12-22-2005, 07:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
It is beautiful to watch the trajectories, especially the green Russian tracers at high altitude in the deep blue (a bit too deep colour I suggest though).

Choc, do the AI planes bullets work like this too, of just player bullets? Just throwing it out. A super massive furball starts to crunch the framerate, and its CPU and not grafix card as can be proven by increasing the time speed which slows framerate -- bullets having to be calculated in less time until the CPU explodes hehe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have seen that the AI bullets seem to behave the same. I had first noticed this when one of my wingmen in an offline mission was attacking a bomber and he was approaching perpendicular to me and I noticed that effect. I was immediately taken by it and I then performed some tests of my own and I was amazed. Now all we need are ricochets and we are all set as far as ballistics is concerned and I do not mean just ricochets from Il2 armor I mean ricochets off of other things as well like buildings, vehicles, the ground and even water depending on the angle at which they are hit of coarse.

FritzGryphon
12-22-2005, 07:53 PM
Here's a nifty video showing the trajectory of the M2 and UB bullets. Fired from 100m alt, and the furthest pilon is 2km.

It's kinda hard to see, though.



http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/compare.mov

LEXX_Luthor
12-22-2005, 07:55 PM
I figured so, since the AI can kill framerate when they are dogfighting each other, in massive numbers, when they don't kill framerate when they are not dogfighting. Of course, I only notice this with time acceleration, since it takes 2x or 4x time speed to show this effect with the standard 32 plane QMB dogfight setup. Using a AMD 3100+ Semperon though, and that's pretty decent. Also, it may be dogfighting routines, more intense calculations than just AI flying formation and looking for enemy planes.

Choctaw111
12-22-2005, 08:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Here's a nifty video showing the trajectory of the M2 and UB bullets. Fired from 100m alt, and the furthest pilon is 2km.

It's kinda hard to see, though.



http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/compare.mov </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do you suppose that Oleg increased the range of the 50s a while back? He did not do this to any other type just the 50s. When I first saw this I was very happy but also sad the the ranges of the other gun types were not changed as well. The 50s now have incredible range not that you could hit anything from that far away but very rarely you get lucky. The Bk3.7 and Bk5 also have extraordinary range. The Bk5 can be fired straight up and you can watch as the rounds eventually fall back down to earth. When that patch came out with the Me262 I was in heaven that the trajectory would be calculated for that long.
One other thing that I forgot to mention and I hate to bring up CFS3 (because I think it s*cks) but in the Firepower addon the tracers would burn out but the trajectories were still calculated so you have a bullet whos tracer burned out but still continued to fly. I love this feature (and that's about all for CFS3) and wish that we had this in Il2.

Kocur_
12-23-2005, 08:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When you fire a bullet it immediately starts to slow down. This is modeled in this sim. You can tell this by firing a bunch of bullets and watching them from the side external view from far away. You can see that when the bullets are fired the stream of tracers start getting closer together which is caused by the bullets slowing down from wind resistance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have two objects: 1 and 2 travelling at the same speed V1 with D distance between them , will D change if BOTH 1 and 2 slow down SIMULTANEOUSLY to the SAME V2 speed...?

I mean surely they do slow down in the game, but you cant tell it by 'seeing' tracers gettin close to eachother at distance...

I think there is a bug in the modelling of HE projectiles effect, which seems to depend greately on impact speed, which is far less relevant in case of HE than KE projectiles. I.e. there should be little difference between effectiveness of HE projectile hitting at 70m and 300m, since it is the same amount of explosive that goes off. Im aware of relation between fuze time and speed but it shouldnt make that much difference.

Jetbuff
12-23-2005, 08:59 AM
Ricochets are in Choctaw afaik. Try hitting an IL-2 from dead 6 and you will clearly see them. For the ultimate fireworks show though, turn on invincibility and host a server then fire at other human planes... yeah baby! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Choctaw111
12-23-2005, 09:07 AM
I mean surely they do slow down in the game, but you cant tell it by 'seeing' tracers gettin close to eachother at distance...

Well yes you can. The time between bullets is going to be the same, say 10 shots per second, so therefore there is always going to be a 1/10 of a second space between bullets from that gun. When the bullets start to slow down they will still be 1/10 of a second apart but since their speed has decreased so to will the distance between them. That is just basic physics and it IS modeled in the sim. This was no accident on Olegs part. He just did an incredible job with thsi aspect of the bullet physics. Imagine if you had a gun that fired 10 shots per second at 3,000 feet per second. The distance between the bullets will be 300 feet. Now imagine if you took a gun that fired 10 shots per second but the bullets only traveled at 1,500 feet per second. Now the bullets are only 150 feet part. Looking at it this way should make it easier to see that when the bullets start to slow down they will start to bunch up and get closer together as is modeled in Il2. You can even see this in some guncam footage of a pilots wingman attacking the same target from the side. You can clearly see the tracers bunching up as the bullets start to slow down. If I recall it is a film with Mosquitos attacking shipping in Norway. You can see clearly the 303 tracers bunching up as the Mossie started firing at a far distance and the bullets had a lot of time to really start slowing down.

Choctaw111
12-23-2005, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Ricochets are in Choctaw afaik. Try hitting an IL-2 from dead 6 and you will clearly see them. For the ultimate fireworks show though, turn on invincibility and host a server then fire at other human planes... yeah baby! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had mentioned that you ONLY GET RICOCHETS FROM IL2's and nothing else. We need ricochets on more objects than just those. But you are right it is a lot of fun to watch all of those bullets bouncing of the Il2's.

Aero_Shodanjo
12-23-2005, 09:31 AM
Err... actually no. Ive hit the armor plate of a Ki-84 (behind the pilot maybe) and saw a ricochet effect. Ofcourse not as much pronounced as with IL2 but a still a ricochet effect nevertheless.

VW-IceFire
12-23-2005, 12:18 PM
Also got a few richochet effects from a P-47 and a P-38 once or twice. Happens rarely.

ivankuturkokoff
12-23-2005, 02:18 PM
Ricchochets (iff the ground and water) were modelled in a Ver4.00 Beta and looked wonderful however I think they were removed to help with frame rates.

p1ngu666
12-23-2005, 03:16 PM
happens off armoured glass too

Jetbuff
12-23-2005, 04:51 PM
Exactly. It's just more pronounced/common on the IL-2 coz of all the armour it sports. It still happens on other planes but less often.

Choctaw111
12-23-2005, 05:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ivankuturkokoff:
Ricchochets (iff the ground and water) were modelled in a Ver4.00 Beta and looked wonderful however I think they were removed to help with frame rates. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why didn't they make it an option to turn it off if your system could not handle it? There are a lot of features in Il2 that you can turn off if you do not have a top of the line computer. Why do you suppose they decided to keep this wonderful option out?

LEXX_Luthor
12-23-2005, 05:54 PM
Choctaw:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why didn't they make it an option </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
hehe probably to prevent the return of the Online Richochet Exploit. It would make a nice server Option though.

That's why I am focusing on StrikeFighters now. If you ~love~ weapon effects, StrikeFighters/WoV is the sim to beat with more 3rd Party weapon effects appearing. Its mostly Offline sim.

chris455
12-23-2005, 06:18 PM
You can ricochet .50 caliber rounds off of cobblestones and bounce them through the belly armor of a.........well...........ah shucks never mind. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

(All this talk of ricochets.........I just couldn't help myself) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

actionhank1786
12-23-2005, 06:52 PM
I'd love to get Ricochet's back into the game!
I love watching gun cam footage of strafing american fighters, it's like a .50cal Christmas!
Tracers just bouncing all over!
And i think this game need the bullet wobble like in real life! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (i'm joking...please dont flame me!)

Choctaw111
12-23-2005, 09:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Choctaw:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why didn't they make it an option </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
hehe probably to prevent the return of the Online Richochet Exploit. It would make a nice server Option though.

That's why I am focusing on StrikeFighters now. If you ~love~ weapon effects, StrikeFighters/WoV is the sim to beat with more 3rd Party weapon effects appearing. Its mostly Offline sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there a good WW2 genre for strike fighters? I am not at all into modern air warfare. You have to tell me more about Strike Fighters. It sounds like fun. Does it support 6DOF and are there bullet ricochets in that sim.

LEXX_Luthor
12-24-2005, 01:03 AM
Choctaw:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Is there a good WW2 genre for strike fighters? I am not at all into modern air warfare. You have to tell me more about Strike Fighters. It sounds like fun. Does it support 6DOF and are there bullet ricochets in that sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
WW2 SF exists and is being developed. Radar gunnery is available for WW2. There is a giant Britain to Germany size "Euro" map for all seasons, which is also used for a giant European NATO/WarsawPac campaign about 1960 which is closer to WW2 than modern air warfare with all the TV super jets you see on the F-16 Channel every night. Anything simulating ancient air war before 1975 is alot of fun.

I don't know what 6DOF is, and I want to stay that way for now. No bullet richos that I know of, if not, then you are like so out of luck.

C'mon over and czech it out...its different, rather simple compared to FB/PF in some respects, and more complex in other ways. One of my fave things is it offers stuff like map making ability. 1000km maps are standard, and the maps have intense elevation and mountains (where there are mountains).

Major SF board at the sinhq ~&gt; http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=145

Choctaw111
12-24-2005, 07:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:


I don't know what 6DOF is </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is simply the vector expansion for the TrackIR. It makes things a lot easier and more realistic when you are looking around as opposed to using a mouse. Unfortunately Il2 does not support the Vector Expansion as it just became available this year. Il2 is abut 8 years old from its inception. There is a lot of technolgy that is around now that wasn't even dreamed of back then.

RogueSnake79
12-24-2005, 08:24 AM
http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=002188

I posted that over at simhq a week or 2 ago. Trying to drag some of our IL2 artistic talent over.

This game is a must have. Like Lexx said, the WW2 area is still young. But not that young.

I have alot of fun mod'n, and skinning this game. Game supports skins of 2048 resolution!

Then later at night I'll fly IL2 on hyperlobby,
you get the best of both worlds.

Though WOV has multiplayer, with so many mods, everyone's install is different. You have to make a frew copys on your HD.

WOV is just plain fun.