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OneillSGT
04-18-2006, 11:10 PM
Hi everyone.
Im going to thank in advance to everyone who read and replied to this threat.

First of all, I play with the alias "RavenRof" usually on 334th_Eagles server.


I've been a bit annoyed with my flying skills...
I can take off no problem, get high altitude, and rarely stall or spin out till i hit the ground or whatever. Like the music says "i can fly smooth, except when im turning" where turning means dog fighting.

I started with the LA-7 A LONG TIME AGO till i loved it, but wheni started playing online, i noticed it was a bit of a noob plane... easy to fly, easy to kill, not much skills required...
then i change to my very favority BF-109K with all those powerfull canons =D

But then... someone told me it was too heavy due to its canons and stuff, i didnt really knew the "weight" factor mattered... well it does... so i change to the BF-109 G2 with default load.

Damn that plane is awesome, light , maneuvreble... i loved it, made a few kills and i could actually out turn others with Flaps to combatg or take off =O.

THEN i tried the spitfires... great planes, somehow i got addicted... i only fly those now, dunno why.

well the problem is... recently I lost my skills.. or everyone else improved a lot. I tke off, get some altitude, spot a target, dive, MISS HIM >.<! and then after a few turns trying to get on is back, someone shows up and kills my pilot or cuts my control cables...

Doesnt necessaraly have to be someone else, i usually lose my advantage and the other plane kills me cutting my cables or killing the pilot with HALF A BULLET O_O.

My question is... why do my control cables get cut 80% of the time i get hit? i mean really... its SO annoying... i hear "bang" and there it goes... i lost my cables with a single bullet...

I recently tried the p51 the badass-hard-to-fly plane, everyone tells me they are fast and bla bla bla... well i cant do anythig with them, at 3k altitude i tried to hit some spits or whoever i saw, and i usually missed or if i hit them, they dont get that much damage... Dunno why but the p51 guns look so weak to me...
Unfortunatly i've seen extremely good players flying P-51 and they shot me down in a single pass... They just dropped on me, 1 burst of bullet, and BANG! my engine is on fire and no working anymore...


I would really love to read what u have to say about this.. what am i doing wrong and my cables keep getting cut, and how to fly a p-51 decently.

Sorry for my english, i wish i could explain myself better but its hard.
I just want to know what am i doing wrong and improve.

Thanks
- RavenRof

OneillSGT
04-18-2006, 11:10 PM
Hi everyone.
Im going to thank in advance to everyone who read and replied to this threat.

First of all, I play with the alias "RavenRof" usually on 334th_Eagles server.


I've been a bit annoyed with my flying skills...
I can take off no problem, get high altitude, and rarely stall or spin out till i hit the ground or whatever. Like the music says "i can fly smooth, except when im turning" where turning means dog fighting.

I started with the LA-7 A LONG TIME AGO till i loved it, but wheni started playing online, i noticed it was a bit of a noob plane... easy to fly, easy to kill, not much skills required...
then i change to my very favority BF-109K with all those powerfull canons =D

But then... someone told me it was too heavy due to its canons and stuff, i didnt really knew the "weight" factor mattered... well it does... so i change to the BF-109 G2 with default load.

Damn that plane is awesome, light , maneuvreble... i loved it, made a few kills and i could actually out turn others with Flaps to combatg or take off =O.

THEN i tried the spitfires... great planes, somehow i got addicted... i only fly those now, dunno why.

well the problem is... recently I lost my skills.. or everyone else improved a lot. I tke off, get some altitude, spot a target, dive, MISS HIM &gt;.&lt;! and then after a few turns trying to get on is back, someone shows up and kills my pilot or cuts my control cables...

Doesnt necessaraly have to be someone else, i usually lose my advantage and the other plane kills me cutting my cables or killing the pilot with HALF A BULLET O_O.

My question is... why do my control cables get cut 80% of the time i get hit? i mean really... its SO annoying... i hear "bang" and there it goes... i lost my cables with a single bullet...

I recently tried the p51 the badass-hard-to-fly plane, everyone tells me they are fast and bla bla bla... well i cant do anythig with them, at 3k altitude i tried to hit some spits or whoever i saw, and i usually missed or if i hit them, they dont get that much damage... Dunno why but the p51 guns look so weak to me...
Unfortunatly i've seen extremely good players flying P-51 and they shot me down in a single pass... They just dropped on me, 1 burst of bullet, and BANG! my engine is on fire and no working anymore...


I would really love to read what u have to say about this.. what am i doing wrong and my cables keep getting cut, and how to fly a p-51 decently.

Sorry for my english, i wish i could explain myself better but its hard.
I just want to know what am i doing wrong and improve.

Thanks
- RavenRof

PBNA-Boosher
04-18-2006, 11:13 PM
Only thing I know about the P-51:

If your speed dips below 380 kph in a combat zone, you're dead meat.

StG2_Schlachter
04-19-2006, 01:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Only thing I know about the P-51:

If your speed dips below 380 kph in a combat zone, you're dead meat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember, there are always exceptions.

To answer the first post:

You don't seem to have much experience yet.
You said you have flown all the "Noob planes" and now you don't anymore and get owned. That is perfectly normal I'd say.

The P-51s guns are not really weak. You just need to track the target longer than in a Bf-109K with its 3cm cannon.

The Mustang is a boom&zoom aircraft like the P-47 and FW-190.
Keep fast and don't start lengthy dogfights.

Bounce your enemy with speed and altitude advantage and hose him down with you .50 cal.

You need good rudder control and some pratice to keep the target in the stream of bullets.
Don't give up. Fighting and winning in a more challenging plane can be very rewarding.

rnzoli
04-19-2006, 04:02 AM
You sound like a lot of people getting temporarily stuck somewhere in the middle of their learning curves. I think you can be happy when I say that your problems are quite typical and careful practice can overcome it.

I think the most important thing to develop further is to control the entire fight (instead of trying to control just one pass, or one engagement). You have to learn when NOT to engage, you have to sense when to DISENGAGE, you have to become familiar with the flight envelope of your various opponents (what can they do, what they cannot) and stay out of their guns.

With your level of experience, your ambition must be not to be hit at all - no risky headons, keeping and increasing advantage etc. Sounds boring, because it takes much more patience, but after I have seen the experts fly this way, and harvesting so many kills and points, I had no doubt that this is the way forward to be more successful. You can get some inspiraton from the tracks shared here by HART_dreyer: http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/

Regarding one of your specific question...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My question is... why do my control cables get cut 80% of the time i get hit? i mean really... its SO annoying... i hear "bang" and there it goes... i lost my cables with a single bullet... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

..., this may depend on the plane you fly, but basically you lose control not from a single bullet, but perhaps a 20 mm shell. If you are attacked from the rear, probably the rudder will be damaged first, which is not so big problem. Record the track and play it back to see where you were hit, and also, how is that someone was able to get into his gunshight in the first place? The last question is the real question, everything else depends on pure luck.

RCAF_Irish_403
04-19-2006, 05:15 AM
once you lose the advantage it's time to get out and disengage. I'm far from a good pilot, but avoiding turn fights has become a point for me

domenlovrec
04-19-2006, 08:30 AM
Well, it sounds like middle age crise. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I had same problems and i still have them... damn.
Anyway here are some tips that helped me:

I was flying at JG-oldies server. Don't get me wrong, it's cool server, but... Since there are no historical missions many people fly La-7. I didn't want it (i flew Bf-10), cause as you said, it's soooo good plane. Also, externals are on, so when you fly B&Z tactic you can not expect "suprise element". And you badly want this!

When i fly mustang mkIII my avarage flight is like 10min. I was wondering why, but then i figured it's my uber confidence. I thougt: "o yeah, i'm a mustang mo*** f***! No one can catch me, cause i'm like a bullet!"

If you miss first pass, don't worry or even get nervous. Climb back, look around, and try again. If you'll do loop on first miss you'll lose a lot of energy. Leave it, go for zoom climb as high as it goes.

3000m isn't realy high for P51. I don't fly below 6000m. And be patient!

OneillSGT
04-19-2006, 02:07 PM
Woah nice, good tips, good tips.

Im gonna try what you guys said, and see what happens. I really want to improve. I'll be updating this with my progress =D

Thanks all, Great replies ^__^

Max.Power
04-19-2006, 04:01 PM
You can always try winging with someone who flies the aircraft you like to fly well. Eagle_1 of the 334th flies the mustang routinely. Seahawk flies all sorts of stuff but 109s quite a lot, if you're interested in them.. and if you like boom and zoom in general, there's Zemke who flies 190s almost exclusively. The 334th guys have public commos.

I'm not a member of the 334th but they're good guys and they have a good crowd on their commos. Learning directly from successful pilots is a very quick way to improve your skills.

Xiolablu3
04-20-2006, 07:59 AM
If you are fighting Spitfires in a P51 it sounds like you are on an arcade dogfight server. On these servers late war turnfighters reign supreme. There is really no reason to take a plane which cannot turnfight.

Planes like the FW190, P51, P38, I would even say 109K, only really shine on the realistic servers where you can escape much more easily and turn away from the fight.

Its almost impossible to disengage from the fight on a dogfight server because the planes are all concentrated in a tiny area with bases very close together. Try some other servers.

Jumoschwanz
04-20-2006, 08:44 AM
The problem here is that you are stupid.

If you quit attacking enemy craft that have wingmen covering them, then you would not get shot down everytime.
Try painting a face on your backside and sitting upside down in the cockpit, you might actually have more brains in your a s s than in your head.
If that fails then try and find a server with vulnerability disabled.

FatBoyHK
04-20-2006, 11:54 AM
lol, jumo must have a really bad day today, and he need to vent a little bit here by acting like the smartest guy in the world in this GAME FORUM. I lost count, is it the third attack Jumo made today?

He doesn't have a good reputation here, but today he is quite..... amusing i would say.

OneillSGT
04-20-2006, 12:50 PM
hehe, its ok theres always people like Jumo.

Anyway


Xiolablu3: Yeah i do play in an arcade like server, because i really cant fly with cockpit on, thats pretty much the problem, and in those servers , boom and zooming gets a bit relative.

Max.Power: Thanks for the names, i will try to contact them, and i know them all =D well at least i've been shot by all of them x__x they do play very well.


I've been trying to get really high now, like 3.5k meters (enough to be able to target someone below me, and in this server i play, there isnt much people above or at 3.5k) and when i see someone dive really fast with the p51 (great plane... im loving it) and shoot them.

I've come across some problems.
First my aim... I can hit them, but i cannot hit them and make them fataly damaged, for example, Engine Fires, Engine BLack Some, Wings Cut, Cables Cut. I noticed that at 800km/h my possibility to black out is great, and so i sometimes can only aim at a bit below the cockpit and all the tail, wich isnt a good place to shoot, but if i pull a little more up i would black out.


and other problem is, sometimes when im diving, my target makes some weird maneuver, that i just cant reply to, either because i would black out, or because due to my high speed i cant really turn that much, or something.

What kind of maneuver is that? it would be nice to do that when im getting BnZ by someone, i usually turn, but the plane on my six turns too and doesnt black out or whatever, and can lead his shots nicely. I tried to roll and loop down but doesnt help either x_x



Thanks a lot for all the tips, im going to join 334th server and pratice a bit more.

My HL alias: RavenRof

Pinker15
04-20-2006, 01:30 PM
Dont listen them. P51 is piece of **** thats all. If U meet 109G2/G10 or fw 190 D9 its time to run home. U cant do any fight against them. Just one boom from above and thats it. If he survived (its most times because 50 cal. really suck especially when E/A do evasive manovers)than its time to run away. If U fly on Mustang III its high propability that U run away and survive but on regular P51 U can have a problem.Live is brutal and I know P51 did not won the war http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Xiolablu3
04-20-2006, 02:34 PM
OneillSGT try UKdedicated 1 server, thats cockpit off but still historical settings, great fun that server. Much more strategy then other WW servers.

OneillSGT
04-20-2006, 02:36 PM
well yeah maybe p51 sucks, but i like him, and i really wish i could fly well with him =( just like all the other .50cal planes (P-40 and P-47 wich i like both too)

Altought i really like the Bf-109 G2 no doubt, and ill try the G10.


I just came from 2 hours of playing (cant remember the name of the server). I started with 0 score, and ended with 0 score... im feeling a real noob x_x. I was flying the Mustang III or something. Got pwned by Spits , TA's and FW's at 4k M to 3kM.

I recorded some of it, im uploading it to rapish and i'll put it here, so u guys can see my lameness o_o


Xiolablu3: Ok i will try that server next time =)

OneillSGT
04-20-2006, 03:20 PM
http://rapidshare.de/files/18522741/Flight.rar.html

Here it is =)

VW-IceFire
04-20-2006, 04:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OneillSGT:
Hi everyone.
Im going to thank in advance to everyone who read and replied to this threat.

First of all, I play with the alias "RavenRof" usually on 334th_Eagles server.


I've been a bit annoyed with my flying skills...
I can take off no problem, get high altitude, and rarely stall or spin out till i hit the ground or whatever. Like the music says "i can fly smooth, except when im turning" where turning means dog fighting.

I started with the LA-7 A LONG TIME AGO till i loved it, but wheni started playing online, i noticed it was a bit of a noob plane... easy to fly, easy to kill, not much skills required...
then i change to my very favority BF-109K with all those powerfull canons =D

But then... someone told me it was too heavy due to its canons and stuff, i didnt really knew the "weight" factor mattered... well it does... so i change to the BF-109 G2 with default load.

Damn that plane is awesome, light , maneuvreble... i loved it, made a few kills and i could actually out turn others with Flaps to combatg or take off =O.

THEN i tried the spitfires... great planes, somehow i got addicted... i only fly those now, dunno why.

well the problem is... recently I lost my skills.. or everyone else improved a lot. I tke off, get some altitude, spot a target, dive, MISS HIM &gt;.&lt;! and then after a few turns trying to get on is back, someone shows up and kills my pilot or cuts my control cables...

Doesnt necessaraly have to be someone else, i usually lose my advantage and the other plane kills me cutting my cables or killing the pilot with HALF A BULLET O_O.

My question is... why do my control cables get cut 80% of the time i get hit? i mean really... its SO annoying... i hear "bang" and there it goes... i lost my cables with a single bullet...

I recently tried the p51 the badass-hard-to-fly plane, everyone tells me they are fast and bla bla bla... well i cant do anythig with them, at 3k altitude i tried to hit some spits or whoever i saw, and i usually missed or if i hit them, they dont get that much damage... Dunno why but the p51 guns look so weak to me...
Unfortunatly i've seen extremely good players flying P-51 and they shot me down in a single pass... They just dropped on me, 1 burst of bullet, and BANG! my engine is on fire and no working anymore...


I would really love to read what u have to say about this.. what am i doing wrong and my cables keep getting cut, and how to fly a p-51 decently.

Sorry for my english, i wish i could explain myself better but its hard.
I just want to know what am i doing wrong and improve.

Thanks
- RavenRof </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know this is strange but you're well on your way to becoming a grizzled old veteran. This is the stage that all of us have gone through...the ones that progressed from 0 and started moving up the ranks.

I too started with the La-7...then moved over to the 109K-4...got frusterated with its poor performance because of excessive weight and moved on from there. I actually spent alot of time in the P-47...back when I started playing the game the P-47 was severely undermodeled in many ways so getting a single kill in it was difficult in the extreme. I didn't do very well for a long time...but when I stopped flying the P-47 and I started flying all of the other types...things started to click.

Here's some things to remember:

1) You will never ALWAYS be at the top of your game. The top of your game will always improve but many times it dips below what you normally can do. Its sort of an osscilating effect. My scientific guess is that because the human brain rewires itself on a common basis...that is...your brain never really looks or operates the same compared to any given day...some days your doing really well and some days you just don't have it in you. Its going to happen.

2) Getting better at this game takes alot of time, alot of effort, some reading on tactics, some intelligence (can't help you get more of that, thats mostly a genetics thing), a bit of talent, and so on. I've been flying for 4 years. Some guys here for longer. I'm good...not great...but I feel confident in that I'm much better than the average pilot in the combat zone. That said...I went on the air racing server and got whupped in every race. Obviously I've still got alot to learn.

3) Gunnery is like a whole other skill on its own. You need to understand how it works, the guns involved, and how to deflection shoot. Part of it is a mental component...99% of the fighters in this game are using fixed gunsights so there is no lead tracking...your brain does the lead tracking. You need to practice it until you start getting it. Even then...some days you're on and some your off. There are maybe 5 or 6 times ever...that I've made what I would normally consider impossible to hit deflection angles at rediculous angles of shooting and the thing was that I fired only a few bullets. Five or six bullets ever came from my plane when I made the shot...and bang on hit and kill. It was a zen like moment of clarity. Doesn't happen often and I usually paint the skies full of tracers before anything good comes from it.

Practice...and reading...you need to work at it and understand it and then you will get better.

As for things like control cables getting cut...murphys law...just happens some days. Flying P-51's are hard and you may want to start a thread for that...tough plane to be good in...ask the real experts on the plane. I've done some good things and it takes alot of work but its really impressive if you do get it. Even the Spitfire...99% of Spitfires I see online and poorly flown. I've had the rare occasion to see a well practiced, knowledgeable Spitfire pilot really take it to the enemy. Whatever plane it is that fits your personality best...you have to practice.

Now I'm going to go back and work on my Tempest skills some more. I'm starting to get a real feel for her...and its taken a few months.

OneillSGT
04-20-2006, 05:33 PM
VW-IceFire: Great reply thank you.

SO basicly this is normal... to suddendly lose all the skills i had flying &gt;_&gt;?
x___x


Ok so i said somethinb about reading... The manual of a really old game and favorite of mine (Fighters Anthology - by Janes) has a really nice part about air tactics , i usually take a look at it, but actually applying them.... x__x

Is there a website of any good soul who made a "review" about aiming and shooting, and Angle of Attack (wich i think i know what it is, but might be wrong) ?

I really like to read Il2 site explaining stuff, I have a few videos of someone (i lost hte videos ;_http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif teaching how to bomb, with some nice musics and cool explenations.

Anything to Read / see / download would be welcome ^__^ I bet you guys know some really cool stuff.

OneillSGT
04-20-2006, 08:24 PM
woah =O I just came from the 334th's Server and im happy xD
Started with 0 score and finished with 1130 =O this time i went back to my old BF-109 G2 and G6/AS. I missed them =3

WWMaxGunz
04-20-2006, 10:37 PM
If you are being the Lone Wolf where others are playing team tactics then you will lose
almost every time. Exceptions: where you are much better and they are not coordinated
then what you have is a target rich environment.

RavenRof, if you think you need improvement then first practice nothing but flying the one
plane you plan to use.

Will you BnZ or near stall turnfight?

For BnZ you need to learn the most speed including the best highspeed sustained climb, not
the best climb speed but climbing at or near the top level speed of your target where his
climb is zero or almost so. You need to know at all speeds just how far/hard you can turn
and not lose much speed (energy for angles) and then in combat refuse to turn more/harder.
Learn the yoyo for if the target opens his turns up to get more speed, you will be able to
stay on and harrass him by making your turns high above with gravity assist and rolling
in the vertical. And never ever make a pass that takes you out into his forward view.

Practice deflection gunnery on sitting duck targets offline only to get a solid feel for
where the shots are going. This is very hard but once you get the feel it is like playing
baseball or skeet shooting, you feel when to shoot, you know where the shots will go.
Very difficult so don't get your 'practice' where five other things distract your attention.

For TnB..... why bother? Esp with flaps? You turn inside the enemy and his wingmate has
only a small deviation to make that will put him onto a lead deflection to you.

OneillSGT
04-21-2006, 10:35 AM
Got it. Im gonna stay on the BF-109 G2 and G6/As for now, and see what happens.

Thanks again for all the tips =]

MLudner
04-21-2006, 11:07 AM
S! Ravenrof.

We've been online together several times. I know just where you're coming from as I am in the same spot. Off-line versus AI I am lethal and I was so dominating the AI I thought I was ready for online.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
It's a whole new world. Humans can do things that AI can't. In particular, snipe you with head-on, bad angle snap shots that AI won't even attempt.
When turning into a pursuer use rudder to shift your angle during the turn to make yourself a harder target. Change the input as you're doing it so it can't be predicted - In other words, start with some, then rudder, then increase it, then reduce it.
Chop throttle during turns, extend flaps to combat or take-off. As you come out of the turn - vertical or horizontal - retract flaps and punch throttle. Use your rudder as well as this changes the angle on your pursuer and makes his targeting solution harder. Learn the yo-yo.

Try to avoid flying into mobs of bad guys all alone. Remember that there will be swarms of them near their forward base, never approach their bases at low altitude. Go in high, dive in, hit or miss go screaming away as fast as you can. Don't go there alone.

Join a squadron. I would recommend the 334th, of course, of course. Get Teamspeak and a mic.

I get creamed a lot, too. However, I'm catching on and getting better. I did much better last night; I scored some victories and got shot down less times than I did the shooting down. I was able to evade a large number of attacks successfully. Just keep trying, keep observing and keep learning.

Practice gunnery. Gunnery, gunnery and more gunnery. Being able to hit and destroy your target quickly and efficiently is absolutely vital.

System-M-
04-21-2006, 01:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Try painting a face on your backside and sitting upside down in the cockpit, you might actually have more brains in your a s s than in your head.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like hes talking from experience.

Cant really say much more Oneill than follow the other guys tips (not jumoschwanz) and you will be improving at it in no time at all.

MrMojok
04-21-2006, 05:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
The problem here is that you are stupid.

If you quit attacking enemy craft that have wingmen covering them, then you would not get shot down everytime.
Try painting a face on your backside and sitting upside down in the cockpit, you might actually have more brains in your a s s than in your head.
If that fails then try and find a server with vulnerability disabled. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oi, pr1ck....... he's looking for *help* here.

OneillSGT
04-22-2006, 05:42 AM
Roger =] Thanks for all the support here =D
Great great replies *salutes*