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wintergoose
01-02-2006, 10:23 AM
I have started the new aircobra campain.
I love the aircobra.
I know that in the real word it was different oppinions about the plain.
My problem is that it goes easy into spinn, and if that happens it is only to parashute.
I have never been abel to recover from a spin whatever I do.
Is there any secrets here ?
Has enyboddy a subscription on how to recower. In other plains I have now problems to recover. Some of them need a sertain high to success.

An other question : How to lock the front weel?
I dont think it is possible in IL2 and adons.
I have to be verry light on the rudder in take-offs. It was not hat wingling in the real life after what I have read.

I dont think the cannon is special effective, it contains only 30 rounds, the D modell.
What cind of ammo was used in the cannon?
Tryed to take out a Jap tanks, but it seemed to have no effect.
Similar germans cannons are much more effective.

wintergoose
01-02-2006, 10:23 AM
I have started the new aircobra campain.
I love the aircobra.
I know that in the real word it was different oppinions about the plain.
My problem is that it goes easy into spinn, and if that happens it is only to parashute.
I have never been abel to recover from a spin whatever I do.
Is there any secrets here ?
Has enyboddy a subscription on how to recower. In other plains I have now problems to recover. Some of them need a sertain high to success.

An other question : How to lock the front weel?
I dont think it is possible in IL2 and adons.
I have to be verry light on the rudder in take-offs. It was not hat wingling in the real life after what I have read.

I dont think the cannon is special effective, it contains only 30 rounds, the D modell.
What cind of ammo was used in the cannon?
Tryed to take out a Jap tanks, but it seemed to have no effect.
Similar germans cannons are much more effective.

ForkTailedDevil
01-02-2006, 10:33 AM
The only times I have recovered a Cobra spin was when I was at really high altitude and I had time to recover. Now I just avoid stalling the plane seems to work better. Also the type of fighter that the Cobra is you wont want to turn fight espacially against Japanese aircraft. Also if you locked the front wheel on the Cobra that would be a bad idea being that it is the only means of steering it on the ground. Lastly the cannon sucks on nearly all Cobra models. I only use it when I am so close to the enemy I can see the rivets on his plane.

carguy_
01-02-2006, 11:06 AM
Because of its exceptionary engine positioning the Cobra is a very bad aircraft when it comes to stall.Yet all models give bigger/smaller but overall good warning before the stall.

Most likely you will not recover from a stall,because it is unrecoverable.You can try to slow her down as much as you can - flaps,gear, zero prop pitch and keep pushing rudder in opposite direction - helped me few times.

The front wheel is not really good when locked,you just need to train some more.All front wheel planes takeoff a lot easier than those with tailwheel.


The D model has one of the best cannons produced in WWII - the Hispano.It`s low rate of fire shows that it is the early version.None the less this is a very powerful weapon which exceeds all other 20mm cannons in hitting energy and also it has better trajectory.
I think you are just influenced by the tracer popping out of the gun.A single Hispano is enough to down any fighter and majority of bombers.

The only problem is number of rounds - you have very few of them in P39.

PS.Russian modified P39 models - N1/Q1/Q10 show the real abilities of the P39,especially when it is lighter than its US version.A heavy plane with such a wicked stall was not what the US wanted.Russians made it one of the top fighters in eastern front.

Freelancer-1
01-02-2006, 11:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wintergoose:


I dont think the cannon is special effective, it contains only 30 rounds, the D modell.
What cind of ammo was used in the cannon?
Tryed to take out a Jap tanks, but it seemed to have no effect.
Similar germans cannons are much more effective. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Best to use single shots with the cannon. Here's a track. Watch and learn.


http://beta.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=EBA593273920D24D (http://beta.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&amp;ufid=EBA593273920D24D )

If you want, I can send you a ground attack track as well. But you really have to be lucky to take out a tank with the 37mm.

Ace_Hyflyer
01-02-2006, 11:29 AM
The P-39 is my ride, generally the N1, but the Qs if I have to. I generally second what everyone is saying, although I disagree with the opinion that the 37mm cannon is useless. I regularly score devastating hits in high deflection shots between 200 and 400 meters.

About the spin, if you can catch it before it actually starts spinning, that's great. Otherwise, if you don't get it stopped within the first 3 revolutions you better bail.

When you do get into a spin, chop throttle, don't touch the joystick and apply full opposite rudder. If that doesn't bring you out quickly, try quickly applying full throttle and then chopping it, sometimes this can help. Otherwisee, drop everything, flaps, gear, etc... to try and slow down and get the nose to drop!

Good luck,
Chris

chris455
01-02-2006, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you want, I can send you a ground attack track as well. But you really have to be lucky to take out a tank with the 37mm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thought the M4 37mm in game only has HE rounds.
You'd need more than luck to destroy a tank with those-

slo123
01-02-2006, 12:18 PM
i can take out bombers and fighters with a single hit from that cannon just gotta put it in the right place up close

carguy_
01-02-2006, 12:20 PM
Hey slo,there`s nothing to it`just work some more with guns.You can quite easily hit a fighter in a 100m deflection from 300m.

slo123
01-02-2006, 01:38 PM
ummm.. i think u read it wrong i said i CAN take out fighters and bombers with a single hit i do however sdtall and am forced to bail alot like awhile ago i was playin and stall so i bailed and my chute opened and then plane spiraled into me course i died nice 5000 foot fall to splat

msalama
01-02-2006, 02:12 PM
Hmmm... Just as an aside if you don't mind awfully: I tested the spin recovery of the various Cobras @ 25000ft. or so a while ago, and none but the Kingcobra was recoverable using the technique of chopping the throttle, pushing the stick fully forward and applying opposite rudder. But then again, I'm no Cobra expert so don't have the foggiest as how to REALLY recover the beasts...

Ace_Hyflyer
01-02-2006, 02:22 PM
Msalama, did you try recovering without pushing the stick forward. I have an 75% chance of recovery in the P39 N1 by chopping the throttle and applying full opposite rudder. If that doesn't work, sometimes blipping the throttle will help.

Chris

msalama
01-02-2006, 02:36 PM
Ach, no, I didn't. But cheers Ace, gotta check that out as well...

IL2-chuter
01-02-2006, 03:49 PM
Stalls seem to be covered here fairly well . . . as far as ground handling for some reason all the nose wheel equipped aircraft in the game behave as though they have steerable nosewheels although none actually did. Use very little input to keep the nose straight as the nosewheel turns directly with rudder pedal input.

Tooz_69GIAP
01-02-2006, 03:58 PM
The cobra is tricky, to be sure. The worst situation I have been in was a spin from 5500m to 500m. I couldn't believe I actually managed to get out of it.

Here's what I did:

First chopped the throttle, and centred the stick. But then it went into a more flat spin. So, push fully forward, and full opposite rudder. Nada, no effect. Flaps down with stick and rudder still in the same position. Slowed the spin slightly - by this time I was around 2500m. I then dropped my gear, which helped slow down the spin, and seemed to put my nose down a bit, but I was still spinning. I then started boosting the throttle slightly to try and force a reaction from the torque. Nope. Then, at around 1500m I thought of something - I turned off the engine. Torque disappeared, and I came out of the spin with stick forward and opposite rudder with full flaps and gear down! Around 800m I was sailing downward, and pulling out of my dive retracting everything. And then I restarted the engine, and started the long slog up to 5000m again where the fighting was going on!!

That was some time ago right enough. I dunno if that would still work with all the alterations to the flight model, etc. But that was hair raising!

Viper2005_
01-02-2006, 06:28 PM
I find the following procedure effective:

Stick centrally forward
Full opposite rudder (check spin direction with your instruments!)
Throttle to idle

If the aeroplane fails to recover within a couple of turns:

Apply in-spin aileron (ie left aileron in a spin to the left).

You'll end up in a descending vertical roll.

Centralise your controls.

Check speed, and recover to level flight as appropriate.

The next time you spin an aeroplane that needed aileron input to recover, you can cut to the chase and apply aileron without delay after cutting the throttle.

You should be able to run through the spin checklist instinctively and in double quick time.

<span class="ev_code_RED">The earlier you take recovery action from a spin the quicker and easier recovery will be.</span>

Prevention is better than cure!

BinaryFalcon
01-02-2006, 07:17 PM
Here's a link to a .ntrk file I made a long while back for a set of tutorials that never quite progressed past the initial stages.

P39 Flat spin recovery (http://www.pangenitor.vispa.com/il2/ATT3-FlatSpin.zip)

Granted, I haven't attempted this method in 4.02, but I would expect it works just the same.

The 'Cobra sometimes requires that you be a bit creative in recovering it when it departs. And in almost all cases, you will need plenty of altitude in which to do it.

It's not so much that the aircraft can't be recovered, it's just that it often will take more altitude for recovery than you have available to you.

Given enough height, however, I've never failed to recover an intact Cobra from whatever situation I've found myself in.

My personal best was recovering from an inverted flat spin that resulted from a mid-air collision that sheared off the vertical stabilizer and rudder, and managing it with only about 2,000' of altitude loss.

I managed to bring it back home and (mostly) land it on the runway, with the only damage done due to the initial mid-air.

It is not, however, a method I'd generally suggest for getting kills, although it can work in a pinch. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

For any interested, the bones of the tutorial page itself and the first 3 "lessons" can be found here. (http://www.pangenitor.vispa.com/il2/index.html) I'll warn that they're not perfect, and at the time were mainly done as a 'proof of concept' before really putting a lot of effort into them.

Freelancer-1
01-02-2006, 08:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chris455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you want, I can send you a ground attack track as well. But you really have to be lucky to take out a tank with the 37mm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thought the M4 37mm in game only has HE rounds.
You'd need more than luck to destroy a tank with those- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, of course. My mistake is including half tracks and other light armor in the tank catagory. When you kill a half track the game says "tank destroyed".

The 50s do a good job on train cars, trucks, and people. The cannon is good on light armor and train engines. The HE rounds typically bounce off heavy tanks. I did kill a Panther once but never a Tiger.

ForkTailedDevil
01-02-2006, 10:02 PM
The P-39D2 is pretty fast for its time period in fact I was on a "desert" early era server a few days ago flying the P39D2 as long as I avoided turn fighting I was pretty untouchable. I stayed high and fast or low an fast and I started to rack up a fair a mount of kills. Lots of fun just avoid if possible putting it into a stall position.

drose01
01-02-2006, 11:08 PM
How does the p39 do in climb rate? It seems to me pretty well, especially compared to 1942 planesets. Does anyone have any p39 or p63 combat tips, besides the stall procedure?

msalama
01-03-2006, 01:46 AM
Thanks for the recovery tips, BTW, everyone! The Cobra's not in my hangar presently, but all this makes for interesting reading nonetheless...

jimDG
01-03-2006, 02:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chris455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you want, I can send you a ground attack track as well. But you really have to be lucky to take out a tank with the 37mm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thought the M4 37mm in game only has HE rounds.
You'd need more than luck to destroy a tank with those- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, of course. My mistake is including half tracks and other light armor in the tank catagory. When you kill a half track the game says "tank destroyed".

The 50s do a good job on train cars, trucks, and people. The cannon is good on light armor and train engines. The HE rounds typically bounce off heavy tanks. I did kill a Panther once but never a Tiger. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

to kill a mobile artilery in a field (in a p39) - land behind it, taxi to within 50m and blast it to smithereens. doesnt work with tanks - they swing the turret around and fire first http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

wintergoose
01-04-2006, 05:16 AM
Thank you all for your answers.
Just got out of my first spinn and could go on fighting.
What helped was trottle to zero, flaps full on,
weeel down, stick forward. And when I stopped the motor I got imideately out of the spinn.
I got in the spinn at 2500 meters and came out at 1500 meters.

When it cames to the cannon I use singelshots at werry close ranges, then it takes down the most. T have tride reflection shots at vlong rangce, but the bullets goes not stright for longe range, so here I have to practice more.

When practising I use 4 TB3 emty so I can see where to hit without been shot down.
Have taken down all 4 with the cannon, 30 shells.

Ace_Hyflyer
01-04-2006, 06:06 AM
That's good,

Now try to take them down with the machine guns. Personally I like the N1, as the 303 cals are good for lighting up engines.

Chris

msalama
01-04-2006, 11:30 AM
I just did some spin recovery tests with the P-400. This seems to work:

1) 0% throttle

2) Landing flaps

3) Move the stick fully forward, hold there, and apply full aileron towards spin direction (i.e. if spinning clockwise, move the stick right)

4) Apply full opposite rudder (i.e. if spinning clockwise hit full left rudder)

EDIT: a minor clarification