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View Full Version : Stealth in Assassin's Creed- What's needed



shobhit7777777
04-19-2011, 05:09 AM
Hi all
I am an Assassin's Creed fan and have absolutely loved the way the series blends stealth and action. The Social Stealth in ACII and ACB is innovative and fun. But it is still lacking.

Playing AC:B I sorely felt that the stealth needs a bit more depth.

Social Stealth: The crowd blending mechanic is great and the ability to sift from cluster to cluster is intuitive and fun...like moving cover spots, but what it lacks is deeper Crowd Manipulation. The closest we have come is using money to draw a large crowd. This mechanics needs to be further developed. In a game where a large part of the Stealth is dependant on 'blending' in I'd assume that we would have a more interactive crowd. In terms of Blending I would like to see more ways of attracting a cluster of people and getting lost in them.
I was playing a mission in AC:B where you have to escort a wounded thief to a safe point without getting detected (Notoriety was 100%), the crowd mechanic seemed shallow and like a frogger game in this instance. I'd like to see more ways of manipulating crowds and in turn the guards. I tried to draw the guards away from a spot by making a disturbance in the crowd (threw money, poisoned a guy) in both AC2 and AC:B but none of the guards came to investigate. I'd assume if people were clamoring about at least one of them would come over. The mission felt a simple game of moving into a crowd and remaining there. The crowd movement felt repetitive and the whole experience destroyed immersion as the NPCs kept moving about in clusters like mindless automatons..no dialogue, no random paths...just the same crowd moving between two points.
Here are some ideas to increase the social stealth aspect

*Ability to initiate chaos and lure guards or vanish.
It could be like Picking someones's pocket and planting the purse on a nearby NPC or blaming it on him, to start a fight. This should create enough of a fuss to draw the nearby guards for you to Assassinate/Evade.
Using explosives to cause a rush and divert the guards. Plant a bomb ANYWHERE, the crowd panics and starts running and the guards come to the source of the explosion

*Disguise. This has oft been repeated on the forum but it seriously needs a mechanic which allows you to alter the character's appearance to hide the weaponry and armor. Less of a Hitman-esque disguise but enough variation to fool the city guards. It totally destroys the game when you are a wanted Assassin and simply walking with the crowd negates the fact that you're carrying a crossbow, a sword, a dagger and wearing pauldrons, greaves and heavy armor. The weapons, the color of your clothes on your last mission etc. should have an effect on 'stealthiness'. Clothing as a rich aristocrat, the guards will not bother you much unless your notoriety is high, you can ride a horse and generally go everywhere unmolested by the guards. Cloth as a common man you are better able to blend into the crowd and makes you disappear easier when your Notoriety is high, following people, losing guards, blending etc. becomes easier when you're just another peasant.

*Notoriety
It should be applicable both ways...on the crowd as well as the Guards. The crowd seems oblivious to your wanted status and does not react accordingly. The higher your notoriety the lesser the crowd clusters to hide in. If you remain in a crowd cluster too long they disband and move away from you, recognising you as a wanted criminal. The aforementioned disguise system should also increase/decrease notoriety. The crowd currently feels like a bunch of mindless random NPCs.

*AI
The sight lines and field of views of the guards is ridiculous, not to mention that they all are deaf. I am 30 yard away standing on a rooftop during a bright afternoon, dressed like a shiny Peacock and the guard is completely OBLIVIOUS! This really undermines the whole experience and is immersion breaking. Kindly increase the sensitivity of the guards, it is understandable in the streets with crowds and the noise but up there in the rooftops.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

*Crouching and a corner cover system
The game desperately needs a crouch-walking mechanic. The stealth aspects are incomplete without it. Playing the castello mission where you have to rescue Caterina Sforza, two things really killed the otherwise super fun mission:

1.Extremely idiotic AI- I shot a guard 20 feet from another..only to be ignored...INCREASE VISUAL SENSITIVITY. It makes the game more fun and challenging. Please Ubi, increase the AI FOV and sight range. Also giving them a pair of ears won't be such a bad idea.
The moment you kill a guard in plain sight of another and expect that guy to come rushing and he doesn't is a massive buzzkill.

2.INABILITY TO CROUCH- forget the other gripes....crouch walking is desperately needed in ANY game with remotely stealthy gameplay. Several times I have felt the need to duck beneath a low wall and creep along it. Countless times I have been spotted when a simple duck would have hidden me from sight and allowed me to ambush my prey.

I PRAY that the stealth is broadened and the said additions are made.

shobhit7777777
04-19-2011, 05:09 AM
Hi all
I am an Assassin's Creed fan and have absolutely loved the way the series blends stealth and action. The Social Stealth in ACII and ACB is innovative and fun. But it is still lacking.

Playing AC:B I sorely felt that the stealth needs a bit more depth.

Social Stealth: The crowd blending mechanic is great and the ability to sift from cluster to cluster is intuitive and fun...like moving cover spots, but what it lacks is deeper Crowd Manipulation. The closest we have come is using money to draw a large crowd. This mechanics needs to be further developed. In a game where a large part of the Stealth is dependant on 'blending' in I'd assume that we would have a more interactive crowd. In terms of Blending I would like to see more ways of attracting a cluster of people and getting lost in them.
I was playing a mission in AC:B where you have to escort a wounded thief to a safe point without getting detected (Notoriety was 100%), the crowd mechanic seemed shallow and like a frogger game in this instance. I'd like to see more ways of manipulating crowds and in turn the guards. I tried to draw the guards away from a spot by making a disturbance in the crowd (threw money, poisoned a guy) in both AC2 and AC:B but none of the guards came to investigate. I'd assume if people were clamoring about at least one of them would come over. The mission felt a simple game of moving into a crowd and remaining there. The crowd movement felt repetitive and the whole experience destroyed immersion as the NPCs kept moving about in clusters like mindless automatons..no dialogue, no random paths...just the same crowd moving between two points.
Here are some ideas to increase the social stealth aspect

*Ability to initiate chaos and lure guards or vanish.
It could be like Picking someones's pocket and planting the purse on a nearby NPC or blaming it on him, to start a fight. This should create enough of a fuss to draw the nearby guards for you to Assassinate/Evade.
Using explosives to cause a rush and divert the guards. Plant a bomb ANYWHERE, the crowd panics and starts running and the guards come to the source of the explosion

*Disguise. This has oft been repeated on the forum but it seriously needs a mechanic which allows you to alter the character's appearance to hide the weaponry and armor. Less of a Hitman-esque disguise but enough variation to fool the city guards. It totally destroys the game when you are a wanted Assassin and simply walking with the crowd negates the fact that you're carrying a crossbow, a sword, a dagger and wearing pauldrons, greaves and heavy armor. The weapons, the color of your clothes on your last mission etc. should have an effect on 'stealthiness'. Clothing as a rich aristocrat, the guards will not bother you much unless your notoriety is high, you can ride a horse and generally go everywhere unmolested by the guards. Cloth as a common man you are better able to blend into the crowd and makes you disappear easier when your Notoriety is high, following people, losing guards, blending etc. becomes easier when you're just another peasant.

*Notoriety
It should be applicable both ways...on the crowd as well as the Guards. The crowd seems oblivious to your wanted status and does not react accordingly. The higher your notoriety the lesser the crowd clusters to hide in. If you remain in a crowd cluster too long they disband and move away from you, recognising you as a wanted criminal. The aforementioned disguise system should also increase/decrease notoriety. The crowd currently feels like a bunch of mindless random NPCs.

*AI
The sight lines and field of views of the guards is ridiculous, not to mention that they all are deaf. I am 30 yard away standing on a rooftop during a bright afternoon, dressed like a shiny Peacock and the guard is completely OBLIVIOUS! This really undermines the whole experience and is immersion breaking. Kindly increase the sensitivity of the guards, it is understandable in the streets with crowds and the noise but up there in the rooftops.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

*Crouching and a corner cover system
The game desperately needs a crouch-walking mechanic. The stealth aspects are incomplete without it. Playing the castello mission where you have to rescue Caterina Sforza, two things really killed the otherwise super fun mission:

1.Extremely idiotic AI- I shot a guard 20 feet from another..only to be ignored...INCREASE VISUAL SENSITIVITY. It makes the game more fun and challenging. Please Ubi, increase the AI FOV and sight range. Also giving them a pair of ears won't be such a bad idea.
The moment you kill a guard in plain sight of another and expect that guy to come rushing and he doesn't is a massive buzzkill.

2.INABILITY TO CROUCH- forget the other gripes....crouch walking is desperately needed in ANY game with remotely stealthy gameplay. Several times I have felt the need to duck beneath a low wall and creep along it. Countless times I have been spotted when a simple duck would have hidden me from sight and allowed me to ambush my prey.

I PRAY that the stealth is broadened and the said additions are made.

LaCava1
04-19-2011, 05:33 AM
tl;dr



Nah, just kidding. You have some god ideas. But Ubisoft generally doesn't us forum post ideas in their games. I still think they should add a crouch feature, it's true.

crash3
04-19-2011, 08:46 AM
i think the range/distance at which guards spot you is really short sometimes your in plain sight but they dont get suspicious but when youget to a set distance from them the seem to magically spot you

also something less cartoonish is needed to show guards being suspicious instead of some arrow on top of the guards head that fills up

notafanboy
04-19-2011, 12:42 PM
i like your ideás, also you should be able to throw coins to distract guard in restricted areas

shobhit7777777
04-19-2011, 02:03 PM
It only makes sense for Ubi to improve the Stealth in the next game, we have seen consistent improvements in the series in ALL aspects..economy,parkour,combat,crowd mechanics..I hope they make an innovative and fun stealth experience in the next one.

zipper009
04-20-2011, 04:08 AM
Where's the LIKE button!? Always found it a bit odd that,dressed as a cockatoo and revealing metal armour plates all over my body,after a chase,I could just blend into a small group of 3 people... Or even approach guards within a group of 3,full notoriety,I'm just another civilian... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
The first game,the white outfit made sense,because of the monks(scholars?) and the climate.But these last games... I know you can colour and dye,but the 25 throwing knives,1 knife,1 sword,and crossbow are just a bit revealing of your intentions. Even a covering sheath can dim the glow of the shining sword,or even a deep pocket in your robes.

crash3
04-20-2011, 04:16 AM
it should be suspicious to be seen with your weapons drawn-need clothing to conceal weapons

should be suspicious to be seen climbing/running on rooftops by ground guards as well as rooftop guards

low profile hidden blade assassinations still look to obvious-should be more like the poison blade kill as you walk past dicreetly stab the person and move on, dont cover his mouth with your hand as that looks dodgy

only cover a guards mouth when killing him inside a restricted zone so other guards arent drawn to the area-stopping a guard from screaming as he is killed would keep you more silent if that makes sense

Xanatos2007
04-20-2011, 04:47 AM
I think Ubi just needs to focus more on the whole "social stealth" aspect they were so proud of when revealing the first AC instead of all this running around on rooftops like a flashy Ninja business. The game wasn't designed for this kind of stealth.

Maurice_Wijma
04-20-2011, 06:38 AM
I can not say anythin more then that I am thinking the same way. What the Assassins were known for, and what we get out of the storyline of AC1, is that they were stealth-killers, and just looked like a person who you could see walking any street.
Altair was pretty stealthy in his looks, but the big sword, and all those knifes only make him look like a hitman, and not a stealth-killer. More bad-***, less realistic.

crash3
04-20-2011, 08:53 AM
cetrain weapons are suited to certain jobs so the assassin brings certain things on each mission that way we interchange our equipment/outfits more so the assassins image is always changing and we focus more on certain weapons instead of having a huge choice each time which would keep the game interesting

shobhit7777777
04-20-2011, 09:45 AM
@zipper009
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Where's the LIKE button!? Always found it a bit odd that,dressed as a cockatoo and revealing metal armour plates all over my body,after a chase,I could just blend into a small group of 3 people... Or even approach guards within a group of 3,full notoriety,I'm just another civilian...
The first game,the white outfit made sense,because of the monks(scholars?) and the climate.But these last games... I know you can colour and dye,but the 25 throwing knives,1 knife,1 sword,and crossbow are just a bit revealing of your intentions. Even a covering sheath can dim the glow of the shining sword,or even a deep pocket in your robes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know right! I found a semi-solution to this. Dyes and Alternate costumes (from Uplay). I use Dyes and alternate uniforms to make myself feel like an assassin. I change my appearance according to the situation. I regularly keep changing my robe's colours after a mission, when a mission requires me to blend in, follow..I choose Ezio's noble attire to look like a normal citizen. If I need to act all stealthy and climb rooftops and blend into crowds (more actiony than previous situation) I use Altair's costume...gives me a peasant-ninja feel with the simple white clothing. If I'm doing something in the night I dye my clothes black. It makes the game more immersive IMHO but I feel that your appearance should have an impact on the gameplay. Especially agree with concealing your weapons...AC1 was cool that way cause if you do look at Altair from afar or moving between crowds he does indeed look like a simple monk or a peasant only on closer inspection from the sides and back can you see the sword and the short blade....made it more believable.

@Crash3
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">low profile hidden blade assassinations still look to obvious-should be more like the poison blade kill as you walk past dicreetly stab the person and move on, dont cover his mouth with your hand as that looks dodgy

only cover a guards mouth when killing him inside a restricted zone so other guards arent drawn to the area-stopping a guard from screaming as he is killed would keep you more silent if that makes sense </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
I completely agree. Because the hidden blade assassination is SO obvious and detection prone I mostly use the poison blade on ground targets. The animation is very believable and it feels absolutely AWESOME when you blend into a crowd...walk towards an unsuspecting group of guards...merge with them while still hidden..POISON one of them & then immediately blend right back with the crowd and escape....the feeling is excellent and the whole thing is VERY 'Assassin'.
I'd like an animation where Ezio "stumbles" and quickly stabs a guard in the kidney. More covert ways of quick stabs in the kidneys. and my favourite:

Crowd Assassination:
You're part of a crowd and if a guard comes closer or you approach the guard as PART of the crowd(still blending in) you have a quick 'Kidney Stab' where Ezio pretends to bump into the guard, stabs him quickly in the kidney, moves aside and melts back into the crowd...ALL AT ONCE...so if you're in a moving crowd..you lock onto a guard and simply assassinate and Ezio stabs the dude and melts back into the crowd by himself. Smooth, stealthy and discreet.

@Xanatos2007
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I think Ubi just needs to focus more on the whole "social stealth" aspect they were so proud of when revealing the first AC instead of all this running around on rooftops like a flashy Ninja business. The game wasn't designed for this kind of stealth. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I partially agree. I agree that the Social Stealth needs to be built upon, the existing one although unique, fun and well thought still requires more depth. On the other hand the 'Ninja' aspect is a vital part of being an Assassin and especially in the AC franchise. Rooftop sneaking and parkour are core mechanics of AC. Ignoring them would be a fallacy. The stealth was definitely about using the crowd but almost ALL stealth missions in the game require you to infiltrate a building and this is impossible without parkour, wall climbing etc. Crouching is a basic fundamental of sneaking. It is a feature that should have been available in the first game and yet we have not seen it. A lot of us have sorely felt the lack of a crouching/sneaking feature in a game that is not ONLY about using the crowds but the rooftops and the environment to stalk prey and hide.

@The_Thorn_MJ
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I can not say anythin more then that I am thinking the same way. What the Assassins were known for, and what we get out of the storyline of AC1, is that they were stealth-killers, and just looked like a person who you could see walking any street.
Altair was pretty stealthy in his looks, but the big sword, and all those knifes only make him look like a hitman, and not a stealth-killer. More bad-***, less realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stealth was infact a major focus in the first game but completely missing. ACII did a great job of building upon the stealth aspect and it was refined in AC:B..now it's time for something more complex

Assassin's Creed as a franchise is characterised by-

1.Large detailed environments and free roaming
2.Parkour and wall climbing (Hightened environmental interactivity and navigation)
3.Social Stealth. The concept of blending into a crowd and stalking your prey unseen...striking from the shadows and vanishing into the sea of people....essentially the third tenet of the creed 'Hiding in plain sight'

It is clear that there is a heavy emphasis on Stealth by the devs, yet we still lack some basic features and depth in the current ones. I hope Ubi addresses the Stealth issue as they did the combat one (improving combat from the first to Brotherhood..making it more deep). Make Assassins the 'invisible blades' that they are supposed to be.

Since a lot of you guys/gals feel the same way How about a Poll on the Improvement of Stealth and a Stealth features in AC4 discussion?

shobhit7777777
04-20-2011, 02:24 PM
quick Off topic Question:
What are the rewards for completing Guild challeneges?

crash3
04-20-2011, 02:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shobhit7777777:
quick Off topic Question:
What are the rewards for completing Guild challeneges? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

some trophy like things that you hang up in the hideout and some more weapons as if we dont have enough of those already! we need some better reards than just weapons and armour

Ureh
04-20-2011, 02:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shobhit7777777:
quick Off topic Question:
What are the rewards for completing Guild challeneges? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They also gain new abilities after a certain amount of challenges are completed. Pickpocketing for thieves, poison kiss for courtesans, and bouncer/guardian ability for mercenaries. crash said the rest.

lilbacchant
04-20-2011, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shobhit7777777:
quick Off topic Question:
What are the rewards for completing Guild challeneges? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See here:
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Guild_Challenges

shobhit7777777
04-21-2011, 04:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They also gain new abilities after a certain amount of challenges are completed. Pickpocketing for thieves, poison kiss for courtesans, and bouncer/guardian ability for mercenaries. crash said the rest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks!

@crash3 @lilbacchant

Thank you! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Inorganic9_2
04-21-2011, 09:01 AM
I think you can JUST get away with thw "brimming with weapons" thing. I have heard that Rome at the time was quite full of foreign mercenaries. However, if that was so, they should have shown it! If the reason Ezio can get away with wearing swords and armour was because of mercenaries in the streets, I do think some NPCs should have been mercenary-like characters (not counting the factions)

shobhit7777777
04-21-2011, 10:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think you can JUST get away with thw "brimming with weapons" thing. I have heard that Rome at the time was quite full of foreign mercenaries. However, if that was so, they should have shown it! If the reason Ezio can get away with wearing swords and armour was because of mercenaries in the streets, I do think some NPCs should have been mercenary-like characters (not counting the factions) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly.
In AC 1 due to the ongoing conflict and the generally militant atmosphere of the region it was understandable to have well armed strangers in the streets. Not so much during rennaissance Italy

Inorganic9_2
04-21-2011, 11:57 AM
^ Again, though, I have read somewhere that Rome was rife with Spanish mercenaries and such at the time. Including such types in-game would mean issues like this would not be raised :P


We also need a stealthy way of killing guards. Like actually stealthy. I'm tired of low profile assassinating someone to have them stand there for ages, then fall over in plain sight before I can conceal the killing. I would like to see an option where you can keep hold of them and move them before placing them down.


Another suggestion I have raised before is an "assassinte from a corner" ability. Press yourself against a wall and drag a guard around the corner where his friends on patrol can't see his body.

shobhit7777777
04-21-2011, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"assassinte from a corner" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

shobhit7777777
04-23-2011, 03:43 AM
Here's another idea to make tailing targets more interesting.

The player needs to maintain a level of anonymity to effectively hide and blend with the crowd. Every time the target spots the player (when the marker fills up till yellow) it becomes harder for the layer to remain anonymous in a nearby crowd and the player may have to distance himself to hide.
This 'spotting' could be represented by a small sketch of the player onscreen showing how much the target recognizes the player. Initially it could simply be a silhouette with a cape.....as the player is spotted more and more the sketch becomes more detailed....the hoodie is filled in, the weapons are visible and the sketch becomes increasingly vivid showing that the target has now marked the player and is now on the lookout. If the sketch becomes fully 100% the player may have to restart of take to the roofs.

Inorganic9_2
04-23-2011, 04:50 AM
I really like that idea ^

shobhit7777777
04-23-2011, 04:58 AM
@Inorganic

Grazie!

I was thinking of something more creative than a simple stealth meter. A paper drawn sketch..like the Da Vinci sketches would seem fitting for an ancient setting and such a mechanic would make following targets fun and challenging and ultimately more rewarding as of now it is easy.
I have to impose certain restrictions on my self
to make the experience more challenging...I always maintain a big distance and when the target looks back I make sure I am either Blended in completely (Out of his sight..so he doesn't even recognise me) and if he does get suspicious I take extra steps NOT to be spotted again...rooftops or hanging back behind crowds, covers and walls.

Hers' an interesting trick to make following targets easier

Always remain ahead of the guy while sitting in a bench or blending into a crowd, you can observe him for a longer time and as soon as he moves on use the roofs...and drop down ahead of him.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>

joelsantos24
04-25-2011, 03:02 AM
I haven't been playing Assassin's for that long, actually I've only began to play a few days ago, but I did noticed that stealth is definitely an issue worth perfecting. It feels a bit weird to me how you manage to kill a few guards in the middle of a street without absolute chaos following next, there's no confusion, nothing, after a few seconds you actually see people walking passed corpses as if it was the most natural thing in the world.

shobhit7777777
04-26-2011, 01:21 AM
Well, from a poll conducted Link to poll (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/1691069229/showpollresults/Y)
[The poll has been closed by the Mods]
It seems that 100% of the votes went towards asking the Devs to focus on Stealth in the next franchise. I hope Ubi takes note of this and implements the desired features.

@POP_WW_2008

Agreed. The crowd reaction REALLY needs to be worked on. Given that a large part of the game is based on Social Stealth which itself is linked to interacting with the crowds.
You have any ideas or suggestion to improve this? Sound off!

Black_Widow9
04-26-2011, 02:13 AM
Topic Closed.
Please post this here-
Stealth in Assassin's Creed-POLL [Your Opinions] (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/1691069229)